Microsoft Will Allow Vista Reinstalls 349
Claus Valca writes "I just spotted over on the Windows Vista Team Blog the news that the Windows Vista retail licensing terms are being revised. Looks like PC home-brew system builders have been let back into the Vista party!" From the article: "Our intention behind the original terms was genuinely geared toward combating piracy; however, it's become clear to us that those original terms were perceived as adversely affecting an important group of customers: PC and hardware enthusiasts. You who comprise the enthusiast market are vital to us for several reasons, not least of all because of the support you've provided us throughout the development of Windows Vista. We respect the time and expense you go to in customizing, building and rebuilding your hardware and we heard you that the previous terms were seen as an impediment to that — it's for that reason we've made this change."
Er.. (Score:5, Funny)
Back to their roots... (Score:2)
Uncle Bill, we know you'd come through!
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It's nice to see traditions are still going strong in that company.
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Not quite, but this is the first time they've actually liked us. I mean, given what Mr Gates used to think about computer hobbyists [blinkenlights.com].
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really? the first thing i do is pull the drivers and remove the offending hardware. then insert a spare of whatever... ..last resort is to reinstall. also system restore can be amazingly useful. but hey, thats just me. :)
Time is a valuable commodity... (Score:2)
Time to rebuild from scratch 4 hours.
Each method has it's good points, each it's bad. When it was just me, and I had hours to devote to discovery, that's the root that I chose. Now, with my son, girlfriend, house repairs, etc., it just doesn't make sense to invest that much time in discovery. Besides, it's not like my Win gaming computer is an HA server.
Re:Time is a valuable commodity... (Score:4, Insightful)
In many cases, the actual amount of time required looks like this:
Time to rebuild from scratch is less than 4 hours.
Time to discover root cause is greater than 4 hours.
Each method has it's good points, each it's bad. When it was just me, and I had hours to devote to discovery, that's the root that I chose. Now, with my son, girlfriend, house repairs, etc., it just doesn't make sense to invest that much time in discovery. Besides, it's not like my Win gaming computer is an HA server.
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According to everything I've seen, what you just said didn't apply in the case of Vista re-install limitations because the Vista limitation was on significant hardware changes. If your hardware didn't change, then this would not crop up.
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What gets me is how easily they could come up with a scheme that would allow unlimited changes, including new motherboards, etc. with a single license, without any problems at all! This is not rocket science - it's computer science! Here's what I have in mind:
1) Assume that
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Your method is definitely the way it should be done. Why is it that most anti-piracy initiatives are aimed squarely at the paying customer instead of the pirate?
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You were probably the first to bitch when they introduced the restrictive license, now that they've had a change of *ahem* heart you're still bitching. And if you didn't I apologize. If it wasn't you it was the rest of the anti-MS crowd.
I'm not sure why, but I feel necessary to clarify that I have no particular feelings towards MS love or hate. Beh.
Bye, bye "positive" karma, how I loved thee.
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I don't want to buy a license for my computer.
I want to buy a license for me!
But the downside is that this looks like it will be effective enough to make people buy and install Vista, which in turn justifies WGA and other horrible customer-spying activities.
At
Re:Er.. (Score:4, Insightful)
I'd say there's a choice, but the best choice is often Windows anyway.
Having said that, Microsoft have never tried to pull the kind of crap Sony did with that rootkit. WGA is less intrusive than outright backdooring and spying on your userbase. And Sony's official line on that right up until they got their arses kicked was "Users don't know what a rootkit is, so why should they care?"
Microsoft has never done anything that evil or stupid. Worst thing MS ever did in my opinion was knifing Netscape. But companies do that kind of thing all the time anyway. From what I can tell, half the people on
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"Reinstall Windows." Every single hardware enthusiast that has ever built their own machine does this before checking their hardware.
What? No. If a person actually does that, then that person is no hardware enthusiast. Your comment reduces the reinstall argument to absurdity, and if sincere, reveals an appalling ignorance of how to carry out basic troubleshooting.
I'd say that you're a troll, but your posting history says otherwise, so I can only assume that you're being serious. How sad.
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So it's not the first line of reaction I take, but since it's a whole lot easier than monkeying about with my hardware setup, I try it first. And you know what? I've had 1 situation where it was not the case that it was simply some weird setting in my Win registry / setup / w
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...
d) A convenient reminder that M$ is still taxing the world $40,000,000,000+ per year for a dozen programs mostly written more than a decade ago with the most difficult bits, the device drivers, being written by third parties. M$ marketing and their astroturfers really wish that people would forget that.
Until they remove their marketing keys from general purpose PC keyboards and stop propaganda like Get the facts [microsoft.com] the use of "M$" is a very minor response.
---
New game: Spot the lying astroturfer [wikipedia.org] on
I call Bullshit (Score:2)
If the only concern was preventing piracy, there wouldn't be any restrictions on what user that bought pre-built machines could do with their bought and paid for copy of Windows Vista either; if you bought a copy ofVista, and want to junk or upgrade your old machine and install that same copy of Vista on it, you should be able to. You paid for a license. The license terms were, and are, genuinely geared towards making
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Well this is the problem with all of Microsoft's "anti-piracy" efforts so far: They don't really hinder piracy, but make it very hard, sometimes, for legitimate users to do legitimate things.
With Windows XP's activation, pirates shared/downloaded the corporate version, which didn't require activation, or else they found ways to crack the whole scheme. Now apparently Microsoft is forcing the corporate versions to activate as well, which might be a deal-breaker for corporate customers (myself included). It
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So for paying that much lower price you get more restrictions. You want fewer restrictions, then pay for a retail license at retail prices.
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Despite snide remarks from the geek masses... (Score:2, Interesting)
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Perhaps that may have determined through marketing research that, although the enthusiast market may be small, it is also disproportionately influential. Who do you think the "average Joe and Jane" m
Gimme a break (Score:2)
What you should be doing is complaining that MS tried to pull this bullshit in the first place. Thanking them for retracting an unfair and onerous provision is the LAST thing you should be doing.
You should be saying "That's right assholes fix your EULA, if you ever try to pull crap like that again I'll migrate my entire office to Linux". Applaud them? Right.
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Your mention of DirectX 10 reminded me of something I've been wondering for a while. Isn't the Vista transition the perfect time for game developers to jump ship to a platform like, say, the new Mac Pros?
Vista appears to aim at using more CPU and graphics resources than ever before. While this may give us some pleasing eye candy, and enhanced security (really) for those browsing the web and using e-mail, what does this overhead do to games?
In the PC world, gamers have long been early adopters for new
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It does absolutely nothing to games. In fact, games will perform better on Vista than they did on XP. Vista basically unloads the GUI and other parts of the OS that are not essential to gaming when a game is started up, so that it can have maximum resources availabl
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Still Shackled (Score:2)
The price will be right, so most consumers won't care until those handcuffs start getting too tight around the wrist.
If you value your freedom, you will switch to a different OS. BSD and Linux are two options.
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It is amazing how much FUD there has been about this EULA though. The (very incorrect) bit about not being able to run certain versions on virtual hardware is one that keeps coming up.
O RLY? (Score:2)
Oh, and the virtual limitations are very real [theregister.co.uk], thank you very much.
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As for the rest:
1. "Self-limiting software": Simple, don't pirate it. MS charges for i
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really? (Score:2)
(sect. 6 of the vista EULA)
Connects to MS and not tell you?
revokes your abiltity to play media if it thinks you ahve violated copyright?
(sect. 7)
Updates firmware without your permision? applies to media devices.
Plus all the stuff that exists in XP and 2000 that is crap.
It's not Vista I don't like its the EUAL and MSs business history I don't like.
Would you all please (Score:2)
The other option they had was to simply not support HD-DVD. Maybe that's what you'd have rathered but I think you can see why they aren't interested in
A good step, now to the VM restrictions please (Score:2)
Cheers,
Ian
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No, it isn't. Although I can run up the OS in that, they're restricting what I can do with it - specifically the viewing of media files. Since just about the only reason I've personally got to think of moving to Vista is its media support, that means I'm completely locked out.
Cheers,
Ian
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For things like BlueRay that use HDCP you need real video/audio hardware anyway. And I always thought VMs weren't that good for media anyway. What with their typical timing issues, lack of direct hardware access, high latency.
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Virtualization is the future (Score:2)
We will have "Windows Media Center" for games and all that DRM goodness.
We will have "Windows Office" for business applicaitons.
We will have "Windows Server" f
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I find it ironic that Vista RC1 runs better on a fake PC than on a real one. :-)
...laura, VMware Server under Slackware 10.2
No, really... (Score:2, Funny)
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What the heck is going on? (Score:5, Funny)
If aliens kidnap and then impersonate Steve Ballmer, is it a bad thing?
It depends on the aliens...
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If aliens kidnap and then impersonate Steve Ballmer, is it a bad thing? It depends on the aliens...
Imagine alien spacecraft hovering above the planet bombarding us with millions of chairs, screaming that they will "fucking kill all humans"
I think that is a very bad thing
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I'd prefer flying chairs.
How disgusting... (Score:2)
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And why not? They did something evil and stupid, people (read customers) yelled bloody murder and they listened. This is progress.... of a sort. When an evil & stupid corporatation (especially a monopolist like Microsoft) actually listens and responds favorably it should be singled out for praise. Praise them when they do the right thing and damn them when they do evil, perhaps enough st
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My final question for all the Bush-lovers who like seeing him with all these powers is this: Do you want Hillary Clinton to have those powers too? Even if I liked Hillary Clinton(she's too far to the right for me) I wouldn't want her to have those powers.
Wow (Score:2)
Not trying to start a flame here, but it was strange seeing people who -like- Microsof
wow to you ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Whats to discuss? They announced that they are changing the reinstallation restrictions.
If (hypothetically speaking) the sysadmins had been blocking slashdot at your place of work work, and then unblocked it, would you say thanks or go on a tirade of why they should have done it differently in the first place? Which is more productive?
Not trying to start a flame here, but it was strange seeing people who -like- Microsoft!
I feel more productive in Word than Open Office. I am more productive in Visual Studio than gvim/kdevelop (although I am quite capable in gvim
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They will take away your ability to do what you want with your computer.
I am very proficiant will all MS development tools.
Unless more changes in the EULA, I'm not going to install Vista at all. Hell, a managment position would be better then agreeing to the Vista license.
You onle feel more productive out of habit. I have seen that arguement when a whole city was switching over to linux. in hindsite it proved to be false when all factors were considered.
The VM restrictions are still silly (Score:2)
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Give and take (Score:2)
This is the reason I don't buy software that requires me to ask permission to use what I've paid for.
Microsoft is changing... for the better(?) (Score:2)
Why? Well, my theory is that as they have grown bigger and bigger, they can't help but hire some nice, decent people, and then these nice people have grown in influence internally. It could also be that they see Google as their
Combating piracy... huh? (Score:2, Insightful)
So paraphrasing one
I might not understand this sophisticated masterplan, but looks to me like it could only make more running copies "pirated".
WOW (Score:2)
I know why they're really doing it (Score:5, Insightful)
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Actually I think what they are worried about is that we would NOT be less willing to keep giving advice but that the advice would end up being "why don't you try out the Linux/BSD/... OS? I can fix it and make it do what you want and it is completely free."
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1) Announce draconian unbearable restrictions on your new OS that you don't want to pass. Include other only slightly less harsh restrictions that you do want to pass (DRM).
2) Wait for people to complain loudly about the unbearable restriction.
3) Change unbearable restriction to something more reasonable. Keep other restrictions (DRM)
4) If anyone complains, claim you've compromised.
5) ????
6) Profit!!!!!
There's only ONE retail license, right? (Score:2)
This may be a dumb question, but there isn't a separate OEM license, right? I'd hate to think I had to pay the full retail price to be able to make major changes later to a system I was buidling from scratch at the moment. I only ask as it's the kind of stupidity I expect from Microsoft.
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Say your store-bought, Vista pre-installed computer breaks the day after your warranty is up. You now have lots of dead hardware and the Vista CDs. You can't install Vista on another computer.
I can't find a source to back me up here. Am I right?
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_however_, the license only ties you to the purchase, and the "license checker" mechanism won't be aware of the terms of the license. So its a kind of "be reasonable" area. If you chan
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This is encouraging... (Score:2)
Apologizing for their error in judgement and rectifying it is a step in the right direction. But I see some here saying that Microsoft deserves no credit for this... that Microsoft shouldn't have made such a choice in the first place, and why should you thank someone for changing their mind about doing something wrong or stupid? But what does it accomplish to chastise someone for a wrong decision that they've already decided to go back on anyways? At best, nothing at all (although even then, it probabl
Erh... this is something to celebrate? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's something I expect from my OS. Yes, I'm greedy and brazen like that to expect that.
What's next, MS threatening to take away our ability to run third party software and then suddenly "reallowing" it, and we'll celebrate them as the next messiah for it?
Folks, don't be silly here. The only reason they stepped back was that a lot of people voiced their concerns and said that they will not buy it under those conditions. They don't do us a service by allowing us to use a system we license.
We do them a service by licensing it.
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I would try to tell that joke to my friends, but it would require too much exposition.
Vindication (Score:2)
So, in fact, the whining of nerds about MS screwups is worth whining. Because sometimes it protects everyone from MS screwups, when MS changes after hearing the whining.
When people complain about that whining, calling it "MS bashing" among other insults, they're working against the improvement of MS products, and for the screwups.
Whine on, nerds!
But will they allow UNinstalls? (Score:2)
How big of them! (Score:2)
Allow? (Score:2)
It's called a legal transaction. I pay you, you hand over the product to me. You don't get to keep it after that. That's called "fleecing".
I'm pretty much certain that XP is the end of the windows line for me. Ubuntu is look
And such a party it is (Score:2)
Oh, wheee. Watery beer and date rape.
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not just PR - business (Score:2)
No, they acted in their financial best interest, as they should. Someone at MSFT ran an accounting model showing a convincing model of financial loss due to this policy, and the number-pushers won.
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Does anybody else miss Bill Gates? When he ran the company, they were far more insightful in their business practices. My favorite example is allowing some level of piracy, since some piracy can help you grow. Now that he's given over control to the typical less-insightful corporate types, we're seeing this kind of nonsense. The same thing seemed to happen to HP and Sony when their founders finally retired.
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In the Windows XP EULA, Microsoft granted themselves permission to feel you up. In the first version of the Vista EULA, Microsoft retained the permission to feel you up, but added a clause that said they would sexually violate you at their discretion while the Bee Gees play in the background.
But it's okay now! They've turned off the Bee Gees.
Re:Great! (Score:4, Insightful)
You're kidding, right? Support for Windows 98 in almost anything is already pretty much dead and Vista's release will probably mark it's death. DirectX 10 will only run on Vista. Almost all new hardware comes with no (or crappy) Windows 98 support. Unless you're playing games like Oregon Trail and Starcraft, Windows 98 is *not* a gaming platform.
Don't see me complaining about WGA
WGA problems are overstated. I've never had any problems, and I don't know anyone personally who has (except those who got their product keys from what we might call "alternative sources". I won't say they don't exist, but for 99.99% of legitimate users it's likely not a problem.
or stupid, graphics heavy UIs
I love the dualism on Slashdot. First it's, "Windows is finally getting a fancy UI like OSX and Linux! Geez, took the copycats long enough!" The next day the same people crow, "Stupid XP and Vista GUI uses too many resources! I'm sticking with NT 4!"
I suppose if you have a Pentium II then XP's GUI might be considered "heavy", but in any case, you can turn it off.
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Man, I know! It's like there's more than one person on this site, and they have different opinions! Next thing you know, someone will have one opinion, and then later receive new information and change their opinion based on said information they didn't hav
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Well, yes. A company enacts an inane policy, and they lose favor. They reverse the policy and they gain back favor. That way their earned favor stays in line with the value they offer. It's fairly basic logic, and obvious to all but the ideological.
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Potential itsatrap scenario (Score:2)
Now imagine that your new hardware has four separate processors. Or imagine that you want to install your legal Vista license on a VM image. Or imagine that you want to do any of the other things importan
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A small step in the right direction.
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It works like this. Joe PC User is never going to upgrade his OS. Most users never do. OS upgrades are mostly a hobbyist thing. But someday Joe will replace the PC and it will come with a copy if Vista pre-instaled on it. In three or four years most all PCs are replaced and so most will being running Vista.