MythTV Compared with Windows Media Center 248
legoburner writes "Tom's Hardware has a nice comparison of MythTV and Windows Media Center Edition, and it seems that they preferred MythTV by quite a margin: 'Enter MythTV, a grand unification of personal digital video recording and home theatre technology, and a magnum opus of modular design, freedom of expression and personal entertainment.'"
what would be really nice (Score:5, Insightful)
Good news Tom's Hardware picks MythTV over Windows MCE (Media Center Edition), but maybe not so much a surprise. Tom's Hardware's preference isn't going to mean a lick to the general consumers. I can't tell my neighbors MythTV is bitchin' because they're not going to have a clue how do it themselves, and I'm running out of support hours and don't have time to set up everyone with MythTV, let alone support it afterwards.
What would be really cool is if some company pulled a Red Hat, or Suse, etc., with MythTV whereby they offer their "version" of a MythTV distribution bundled with hardware and all. With minor standardization, it's a product that could spark consumer interest. This would offer an alternative to the always present MS MCE, and an interesting competition (potentially) with TiVo.
Re:what would be really nice (Score:4, Interesting)
Rich media experiences are a Faustian bargain. The EULA is an abstract goatskin, and that's your blood you're click/signing.
The reality is that the bulk of people are perfectly content to sign over to a proprietary vendor.
Paraphrasing Mellencamp: "Free Software goes on, long after the thrill of getting mugged by the proprietary vendor is gone".
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Then there is a summary table in which every single item described about Windows MCE is just a plain lie / mistake (but for the first one). It seriously looks like these guys didn't even take the time to read anything about MCE, or else they just plain lied.
Of course, they chose MythTV in the end. This is just a big false advertisement, nothing else.
And don't get me wrong, I think MythTV is
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Beyond that realization is another one. Consider http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ [linuxfromscratch.org]. You're not getting a mole of water; you're getting a mole of oxygen and two of hydrogen. If you've the fortitude to work through it, you'll know how to manage your thirst yourself.
Free software isn't about paying, it's about investing. While we need not condescend to those who can't/won't see this, we can note that they
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Re:what would be really nice (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html [mysettopbox.tv]
KnoppMyth is freaking awesome (Score:5, Interesting)
however, getting MythTV running on my brother's box proved to be really, REALLY difficult.
Enter KnoppMyth.
20 minute install and 10 minutes to configure. And it all just worked. I'm sold.
Plus, he can use his main machine, a Tiger-running Mac, as a front end as well. Its terriffic. Download it. NOW.
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Or 17 minutes to install and (mostly auto-)configure on reference hardware: http://mythic.tv/product_info.php?products_id=44 [mythic.tv]
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As nice as KnoppMyth is for a sysadmin type (I use it and love it) it is still decidedly not for the general public. Some kn
Re:what would be really nice (Score:4, Interesting)
whereas most end users have a rudimentary knowledge of Windows and can fix small things when they break.
I really wonder where people get this impression. Most people can't even change their resolution in Windows, although that seems to be something people bitch about with Linux. Most people don't even realize they are missing drivers when (if) they take the plunge and decide to reinstall windows because "it is slow". A lot of users cannot even install applications in Windows, even if it is the "next, next, finish" type.
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If it's difficult to u
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Wrong. Linux is ready for the desktop for many, many people. It's used daily by many, including my self. It's perfectly able to run a desktop. Desktop use and the specifics given above have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Let me be clear, MythTV != Desktop.
Now then, the biggest reason Linux isn't ready for the masses' desktop is simple. People know what they know and Linux isn't what they know. Simple fact is, companies like IBM,
Re:what would be really nice (Score:4, Insightful)
http://tomshardware.co.uk/2006/09/08/the_mythtv_co nvergence_uk/page4.html [tomshardware.co.uk]
It's a horrendously misleading article summary, and it shouldn't have been posted. I can only surmise that the editor didn't look at the submission, either that or they don't care that it's so misleading.
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So yes, I'd say the reviewer prefers MythTV. The only reason MCE was mentioned at all is to have something to compare to, and as a reference point for people who may know
pulling a Red Hat ? (Score:2)
Tell them where they can buy it in the high street.
"and I'm running out of support hours and don't have time to set up everyone with MythTV, let alone support it afterwards."
How would that be any different than supporting MS MCE. If you charged more you would get less 'support' calls.
"What would be really cool is if some company pulled a Red Hat, or Suse, etc., with MythTV whereby they o
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Media Center requires far less technical knowledge then MythTV. Just read the other responses in this Slashdot discussion to see the variety of issues that come up.
My MythTV barely works--- I'm running a pretty vanilla version of Ubuntu 6, with the default MythTV package. "mythtv-setup" crashes, and I don't have the time or patience to debug the problem.
It's easier to get Windows Media Center to play DivX and XviD videos.
Re:what would be really nice (Score:5, Informative)
There are a couple of small vendors who do this already. The systems all seem to be priced to compete with the various Commercial PVR-type systems -- $600-1200.
While searching for Ubuntu & MythTV, I ran into https://monolithmc.com/ [monolithmc.com], who I ships a computer preloaded with MythTV & Ubuntu.
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Remember Walmart's big push to mainstream OEM Linux in the states?
The systems and distros that came and went through the revolving d
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Tivo still wins on user interface (Score:3, Insightful)
My only complaint is that because of the way the remote is shaped, it's easy to pick up backward in the dark. That's really saying something when that's the only bad thing I can come up with. Their support has always been awesome and the devices have gotten so darn cheap, there's no reason not to have a real Tivo. I've seen them on sale here for $49.99.
2 cents,
QueenB
PS: No, I don't work for Tivo. I just really like mine.
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MythTV is also considerably more expensive than a Tivo. You can't just build a good MythTV box out of spare parts; the tuner cards alone are often more expensive than a Tivo. If you want HD quality
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So in the end, you're just paying up front for hardware, and it ends up costing more in the end anyway. With the number of cable companies who are giving away PVR service with digital cable, MythTV doesn't make a lot
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Having recently purchased a Tivo, a little clarification on the $49.99. That is the price after rebate. To get the rebate you have to sign up for their service for 1 year ($13/mo). The rebate is $150 and you have to wait 6-8 weeks AFTER you have been activated for 30 days. So plan on 3 months before you see that money back.
I also have a MythTV bo
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But I just couldn't bring myself to use it (even if it was available in Canada) for a number of reasons:
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Maybe unacceptable to you, but in Tivo's case the GPL is respected entirely. The GPL covers the software, not the hardware. The GPL is about freedom, and Tivo software provides all the freedom the GPL is "about". You are free to use the Tivo source code all you like; the hardware, on the other hand, is under their control.
"Tivo includes DRM. That's reason on it's own"
Then iTunes and
Re:Tivo still wins on user interface (Score:4, Informative)
MythTV could be great. (Score:3, Insightful)
answer: when you can get it in the high street (Score:3, Insightful)
You know something, you're the third experienced Linux enthusiast on slashdot that can't get their hardware working under nix. What make of cards and OS version? Were the support forums of any help
MythTV will never be any competition to Windows MCE until you can just put in a disk, answer a few yes or no questions and then start using it.
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MCE 2005 was a bit of a pain in the but to setup. Just a few days ago I moved to the Vista RC1 build for my media center and it really was as simple as anything I've installed. Detected all my cards automatically and installed correct drivers, hold one button for a few seconds and it recognized my remote (dish network), auto-detected my XBox360 as media center extender, etc. I was amazed at the improved ease of setup co
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Well, the thing is your "average Windows user" has a tech friend that they run to whenever they've got a Windows problem. I know - unfortunately I've let myself get sucked into that role before, and still do it on occasion out of friendship.
Y'know, if all of us that do this for our friends were to stop... I really think it just might put some big cracks in that Windows monolith.
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Compared to MythTV it would be a walk in the park. At least 70% of the problems with these things in getting the hardware to work. Most hardware installs easily with Windows, with Linux (which MythTV runs on), it's an absolute nightmare.
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If I was running the
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Re:MythTV could be great. (Score:5, Insightful)
Overall I think that the thing that will hold Linux back from becoming really widely deployed is the lack of automation for simple tasks. I wanted to burn a DVD from a show that I recorded in mythtv. I can find several good recipes, including in the mythtv documentation, about how to do it. If it is so easy to write a detailed list of how to do something, then why not automate it.
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By "good", I mean something which approximates "cp myshow.avi /dev/dvd" and have it compatible with a normal player doing all conversions automatically.
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emerge ivtv
See
http://packages.gentoo.org/packages/?category=med
For available versions.
So I imagine this approch would be portable to other distros.
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So, it only costs about $300 worth of your time to get it going? That doesn't sound very cost-effective.
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It may be more troubl
Indeed (Score:2)
I installed MCE and had it running in an hour or two, and the most important thing I wanted, automatic scheduling of ser
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Now I'm in pretty good shape with a simple, single broadcast tuner system. I'm not using MythGame, MythFlix, or MythPhone but I am using MythStream, have all the other modules working whether I'll use some of them or not, and have only one significant bug to squash (for which I _do_ have leads
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compiling the apt-get repositories .. (Score:2)
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Huh? (Score:2, Insightful)
Everything else seems pointless. Installing modules to give weather reports? Like a lot of people, I can just click "home" in firef
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Commercial usage? (Score:2)
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I would definitely pay for a Mini-ITX system with MythTV pre-installed and pre-configured
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(as seen 2 posts down)
Customer Support != Community Support (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't think the "MythTV community" wants to get a phone call from a drunken frat pledge 10 minutes before Super Bowl XXMXVIIC comes on, wondering which connector goes where. You can say RTFM on the phone to your community, but you can't say it to your customers.
Re:Commercial usage? (Score:4, Informative)
Sub $500 HD-PVR? (Score:2, Interesting)
A few options... (Score:2, Informative)
For capturing..Myth does have support for firewire input from the cable box. You're kinda dedicating your cable box to myth that way, but it does seem to work okay..just not for the scrambled stuff. What you can get through firewire see
This is a great opportunity for open source (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a great opportunity to make some inroads into the consciousness of the average consumer.
Bad title! (Score:5, Informative)
2) The table mentioned above compares Myth against MCE 2004 not MCE 2005 which has been out forever, MCE 2005 R2 which has been out for some time, or Vista which is almost here.
Detailed Comparison Chart (Score:3, Informative)
Actually its titled a Detailed Comparison Chart.
"The table mentioned above compares Myth against MCE 2004
What information presented in the chart doesn't apply to MCE 2005/R2/Vista.
Proprietary; pay to obtain and use but not modify, Proprietary codec cannot be changed, No software decoding support for 2004, No support for DivX or MPEG2,
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What information presented in the chart doesn't apply to MCE 2005/R2/Vista.
There is now software decoding
There is not extensive plug-in support
Its not single unit, you have the same master/slave they talk about with Myth with use of media center extenders
Record only locally but play locally or any extender device
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Article in a nutshell (Score:5, Informative)
- Open Source; free to obtain, use, and modify
- Software and hardware decoding support
- Output to DivX and MPEG2
- Runs on Linux and MacOS, feeds to Windows (Windows MCE runs on -- guess what -- Windows only!)
- Ultra-low system requirements
- Support for companion and third-party plug-ins
- Scalable network architecture (master/slaves) (MCE has only basic TCP/IP support)
- Record once, transcode and play anywhere (in MCE you can only record and play using the same device)
Features in Windows MCE not in MythTV:
- Simple setup and configuration
Guess which one will have the biggest market share?
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HOWTO make myth better. (Score:2)
Step 2. Give them free reign to make a better auto setup/install interface.
Always new fresh people will see short commings easier and spot weaknesses faster
than if someone who has been using it endlessly for years and are used to all
the quirkiness/shortcuts whilst knowing all the hidden features or not easily documented
features or options that might be not quite logically laid out.
Just look at XBMC for the xbox as a player it rocks a
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Only a benefit if you're cheap or poor, or a programmer.
Not at all. Open Source benefits the users directly. Case in point: MCE can't write to MPEG4, because MS will never care about writing the feature. Obviously, someone around MythTV wanted this (honestly, essential) feature and wrote it in. MCE only has support for DRM formats. Open Source in this instance basically means you can play the movie you recorded o
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I don't care about MPEG4 vs MPG2 vs MS DRM'd video streams for this purpose. I just timeshift stuff, I don't keep it, burn it, or care about handing it to friends. I don't care about watching video on multiple machines, or streaming it to my laptop in some hotel somewhere.
MythTV may have its benefits for some people, but don't call them "obvious" since some people just flat out don't care one way or the other about them. What is an obvious benefit for someone with 8 tvs in their
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It sounds like a prepackaged, consumer-oriented system would best meet your needs. I recommend looking into Tivo. The new Series 3 looks like it will be quite nice.
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Responses like mine? I was responding to a poorly informed, idiotic statement by someone who didn't
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Another benefit: Open source pretty much guarant
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Only for TV recording.
"MCE only has support for DRM formats."
This is not true. Recorded MCE content can be transcoded to other formats.
"Open Source in this instance basically means you can play the movie you recorded on any computer."
True for MCE as well. You can play MCE content on other MCE's or extenders and you can transcode it.
Question about 2 locations (Score:2)
sync/copy/backup the HD and put in an another Mythbox for viewing (the two are not connected in any way) ?
I tried several FAQs and forums and I reaaly don't seem to find an answer. thx
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1) Use an external drive for transferring the data.
2) copy/move the data to your desired "media" directory that Myth uses for it's data store.
This is nothing more complicated then copy/paste. You should be able to have Myth rescan your collection so that it shows up on your menus. (or however else you organize your life)
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Use the mythrename perl script that renames the programs to something more helpful than their time and channel of recording. And then, since your boxes are unconnected in any way, dump the files to a removable media, and load them into the folder configured for MythVideo on the other box.
They won't show up in the "recorded media" database tree, but in the "external media" ("Watch Video") tree. Which is fair enough, because that's what they are.
Why I love mythtv... (Score:5, Interesting)
The potential for separation of backend and frontend allows me to have my loud, big, lots-o-storage system somewhere far away from my TV, and a quiet, yet affordable box with my TV.
My frontend is nothing but a micro ATX case with a motherboard (ASUS A8N-VM CSM), processor (Athlon XP64 3000), and 1 512M DIMM. No hard drive, no extra video card, booting diskless. Thanks to the linux base I'm able to PXE boot, and have a tmpfs root with about 40M of ram used, and nfs mount usr. Now I have a really slick frontend that I can sleep and resume, and it comes up in less time than my TV takes to turn on its lamp right back to whatever menu I left it at, but still have no hard disk whatsoever in it. It's very quiet, and passes the WAF test. The kind of power and flexibility I can get out of a mythtv on linux solution is far beyond anything that involves Windows (try having a fully persistant-storage free (including optical drives or usb storage) windows box that can run MCE and serve reliably as a frontend, persisting through all sorts of activity including sleep... My backend records OTA HD and uses a free service to get TV listings, no subscription, has everything stored on a software RAID5 with 4 250GB disks, and I can access it to make scheduling changes from anywhere via the web if someone say recommends a show while I'm at work. Can also download other media (i.e. fansubs), dump them in a particular directory tree, and the frontend can access it in an easy-to-use interface as well.
One thing I will say is that for more exotic configs, it naturally takes more work to set up than probably other things do, and in allowing the exotic configuration, a lot of confusing options end up facing the novice user (kinda like vi vs. notepad). Also, as it is only part of a full solution, it can't even simplify some config options because it quite frankly has no idea if the user will have a remote, if so what remote, if they will use a keyboard, maybe a joystick, if a joystick no idea on the keymapping... If it will be running backend and frontend type tasks on the same box, if separate the frontend may not know where the master backend is... It has various playback options that work better depending on your video card and such, and while they have a 'decent' default behavior, it doesn't de-interlace by default, doesn't enable any sort of sync to vblank by default, and doesn't enable XvMC by default, because it can't assume any of these are wanted or will perform right with the frontend's hardware. It could be assissted by a discovery architecture for the frontend (if localhost not responding, discover backends), and maybe a hardware/configuration database where it uses, say, lspci data and checks for XvMCConfig and other config files to have a better guess as to what the user can do, but it shouldn't sacrifice the power of it's configurability whatever may happen.
Once configured, it's slick and easy to use, no one has ever been confused by the interface that's used it at my house, I've never had to answer any questions pertaining to usage and once I got everything behaving correctly, I haven't had to touch configuration. Other people have scheduled recordings without being confused or anything, and that's about the hardest task left to do with the frontend. It could be leveraged as a part of a pre-configured solution where hardware and software config is already known (last I heard MCE had particular config requirements, so mythtv's ability to cope with a wider config probably contributes to this criticism).
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As I said, the wife loves it.
As I said in my post, setting it up isn't admittedly the easiest thing in the world, but once it is set up, it ends up really easy to use. Setting it up as a single backend/frontend box (first thing I did) wasn't very hard. Even setting up a backend and frontend wasn't that much more so. Getting to a diskless system that can sleep I went through some convoluted stuff over the course of a few hours, but that is also the point where using Windows to achei
Building a MythTV system isn't hard. Really. (Score:4, Informative)
The funny thing is that I heard so many stories about how MythTV is the ne plus ultra of difficult installations that I actually put off getting started for some time after assembling the necessary parts. Some common MythTV installation mistakes:
MISTAKE: Not trying to build one because everyone knows MythTV installation makes grown men weep.
SOLUTION: It might do so . . . For those who've never installed Linux before. Yes, having some experience with Linux, or the willingness to learn along the way with learning MythTV internals, is essential.
MISTAKE: Not trying to build one because MythTV only runs on custom-built, homemade systems and I don't know how to build one.
SOLUTION: I'm two thumbs when it comes to hardware; even my earlier 2.8TB RAID 5 array [google.com] (which I'm not using for MythTV storage, but will at some point) was more a software project than a hardware one. For MythTV, as I mention in my message above, I simply bought a stock 3.0GHz Pentium 4 Sony Vaio system. It did have the advantages of a) being pretty darn quiet and b) being black with flip-down covers covering the drive bay (a family member who visited recently didn't even recognize the case as belonging to a PC until I pointed it out), but these were simply superficial bonuses. There's no need to have to handcraft a SFF system in a "media PC" case unless one really wants to.
MISTAKE: Trying to build a high-definition system on the cheap.
SOLUTION: Anyone who does not feel confident about his technical skills and doesn't need high defintion ought to buy a TiVo. Seriously. Don't think that a MythTV system will somehow save you money, because it probably won't and probably won't look as nice sitting under the TV set. For those who moan and groan about the monthly TiVo fee [slashdot.org], I'll bet they're also the ones who moan and groan [slashdot.org] about paying $15 a month for World of Warcraft despite it being a far, far, far better value per dollar than any movie, DVD, or other videogame purchase. Get out of living in mom's basement, loser!
That said, anyone who wants to build a high definition-capable system needs to look at MythTV hard because, as mentioned, it can do things no commercial system can do. However, high definition takes horsepower. Lots of horsepower. The mythtv-users list sees a constant influx of new people who think that they can get away with assembling a HD-capable system with the spare parts sitting in their closets. They fail, then go away whining about how "MythTV is hard."
Here's what one needs:
* 3.0GHz Pentium 4 or better. Don't try to use a less-powerful system and then rely on XvMC [mythtv.org] to fill the gap.
* Nvidia FX 5200 or better. No, don't try ATI. No, don't try a MX400.
* Lots of storage space. Each high-definition recording stream takes 5-8GB per hour [slashdot.org]. I can record three such at once. Do the math.
* A standalone PC. The best way, by far, to install MythTV is to follow Jarod Wilson's justly-famous installation guide [wilsonet.com], which uses Fedora Core. Don't try to press in a system already being used for something else to the task (at least not as a frontend); it's not worth the hassle.
BOTTOM LINE: Anyone with some prior Linux i
Media Center Part of Vista (Score:2)
I've been testing it out the last few weeks and it is really quite slick. I can even assemble a "playlist" of MP3s, WMVs, GIFs/JPGs, and just about any other media on the computer and have it burn it all straight to a DVD. Not only that, but the DVD has a very professional menu-driven interface that worked perfectly on my 1995 Sony DVD player.
MythTV looks great when it's up and running, but with the majority of tuner/video
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I'm sorry, we were comparing MythTV to a 2 year old version of Windows Media Center that you can't even buy any more, so all your talk of Vista MCE is no help at all :-)
I also hear Windows XP has features that Mac OS 8 can't compete with.
Strange comparison... (Score:3, Insightful)
And in a month or two, the version after that will be released as part of Vista.
Hmmm...
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Sure it will.
Seriously, you just go on thinking that. Yeah.
Tried Myth, Gave up. (Score:2)
I tried MythTV about 3 months ago. I had decided I wanted a media PC to play our fansubbed anime, silly viral videos, and huge mp3 library. I figured myth would be my best bet. I was wrong. First I tried a gentoo install so I could optimize for the hardware I had. Lengthy system install/compile later I couldn't emerge mythtv because of licenseing
Windows Media Center sucks (Score:2)
Xbox front end? (Score:2)
Girly TV GUIs (Score:2, Funny)
PenGun
Do What Now ???
My experience with PVR (Score:2)
some years ago I had received a TV tuner card and installed it on a Win2K box.
It pretty well worked as advertised, but the scheduling software was standard windows... you could only run it if no other programs were running.
I've had a DVR from my cable company, but with all the add-ins (Digital tier, remote charge, box charge) it proved to be too expensive, plus it needed frequent hard reboots.
Then... enter Miglia's TV Micro.
A little USB dongle (with an included USB cable) that decodes the signal and soft
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Uh-huh. And you typed that message on your wrist-PC while skydiving and enjoying the great outdoors, right?
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"vegging away your life" is a behavioral problem not a technological one. Like other posters have suggested, the big motivator behind MythTV, Tivo, and similar DVR solutions is to help you fit TV into your schedule instead of building your schedule around the TV.
The fact that you take such an extreme position against media suggests you've got some unresolved mental issues. Maybe your parents beat you whenever you turned on the TV and the very thought of watching a TV makes you wince in pain. You need t
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I dont think it is that, I think it is that corporate developers
dont have a lot of choice in answering to the corporation. And
the corporation has a large set of inputs that are not customer
oriented.
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I have never used MCE at all but has the overall capabilities of MCE changed since 2004?
Proprietary; pay to obtain and use but not modify
Proprietary codec cannot be changed
No support for DivX or MPEG2
Simple setup and configuration
Runs on Windows only
Modest system requirements
No plug-in support
Basic TCP/IP network support (single unit)
Record and play locally only
If not then the review is mostly accurate. MCE2005 might be more stable and have more features than 2004 but the capabilities remain th
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http://blog.mattgoyer.com/categories/mediaCenter/
(this view is linked to in my parent post too)