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The 25 Greatest PCs of All Time
Posted by
CmdrTaco
on Sun Aug 13, 2006 02:35 PM
from the where's-my-compaq dept.
from the where's-my-compaq dept.
theodp writes "As the IBM PC turns 25, the editors of PC World present their list of The 25 Greatest PCs of All Time (IBM & others) and the rationale behind their picks. What, no IMSAI 8080?" And my favorite compaq luggable is missing too. Clearly this subjective and arbitrary list is subjective and arbitrary!
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Oh No (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Oh No (Score:5, Interesting)
If I wanted random lists of stuff I would visit Listable [listible.com]. On the other hand, I see this as a guide to some of the best computers with the reasons that they are great. I have never considered PC World the last word on technology.
Parent
sponsor (Score:5, Interesting)
Case mods wouldn't count, so... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Case mods wouldn't count, so... (Score:2)
We bought our third computer from a local mom-and-pop company that built beige boxes from standard parts, and supported them. It was nice to have a company like that locally, that one could drive over to see the guys personally instead of shipping things off to a central support center to get repairs. I'm sure it provided more employment to geeks around the country
Re:Case mods wouldn't count, so... (Score:2)
Furthermore, you don't get the bundled software crap, and you can chose your own operating system.
Re:Case mods wouldn't count, so... (Score:5, Insightful)
Let's see...
Perhaps because it was one of the first proper and usable laptops?
Because Thinkpads are some of the most dependable laptops you can find?
Because they have always been and always will be quietly stylish (black is always cool) instead of in-your-face?
Because Thinkpads are the laptops most often chosen by companies whose employees depend on their laptops working perfectly all the time?
I have a T42 myself, and the only laptops currently available that I would even consider switching to are:
A) A newer Thinkpad, preferably an X model.
B) A Panasonic Toughbook (One of the "semi-rugged" ones).
or
C) A Macbook (If they finally figure out how much thermal paste to apply and sort out a few other bugs in the process).
It may not be flashy, it may not have all kinds of silly features or ultra powerful graphics or a super high resolution monitor, but it's built tough, every built-in function works perfectly every single time, the bundled Windows software is actually useful, the keyboard is the best laptop keyboard ever made, the Linux support is second to none and the configurability is very nice (4- or 8-cell battery in the main battery bay, DVD-drive can be swapped for another type of drive or an additional battery).
Yes, I am very happy with my Stinkpad. It runs Windows XP and GNU/Linux better than any other brand of laptop I have encountered, and it does what I need perfectly.
Parent
Re:Case mods wouldn't count, so... (Score:5, Informative)
The crew of the Space Station has around a dozen A31Ps that are used for both non critical office type tasks (those run XP) and critical command and control functions (those thankfully DO NOT run XP, they run RedHat). There's a few elderly 760XDs and 760EDs onboard that are used for some specialized functions that aren't worth certifying on faster machines as well.
The Russian Segment also has a suite of Thinkpads (which, given the practical nature of Russian engineering to use what "just works" - is probably the biggest compliment).
Parent
My only complaint about this choice... (Score:4, Informative)
The 600 series was the first to have official instructions on the IBM website on how to install Linux. (Red Hat, for the curious.) There was always a problem with the quirky sound chip, and it took IBM years to put out a driver (F/OSS, to their credit) for the MWave modem chip. Red Hat actually "certified" the 600 series Thinkpad, in spite of those problems.
The 600 "DNA" was transfered to the T series of Thinkpads, a series still in continued manufacture by Lenovo. Whether the T60 is a worthy member of the line is something the jury's still out on, but the T4x series remain classics.
Yes, the 700C was first. The 701C with its "butterfly keyboard" had more panache, and might have been a better choice for the Thinkpad niche. But the 600 series would have been the best choice of all, because it's the beginning of a continuum of perhaps the "best of the best" of the whole line.
Parent
WTH? (Score:3, Interesting)
The Amiga 500!
Re:WTH? (Score:5, Interesting)
The 500, while still a cool box, wasn't a great technological leap forward. It was merely a mass-marketing-wrapped version of the 1000. (And Commodore poorly mass-marketed it!) As the easter egg [eeggs.com] hidden inside one of the later versions of Workbench said: "We made Amiga, they [Commodore] f*cked it up".
If they wanted to glorify Commodore in this list, a better representation might have been the Pet. That was probably the pinnacle of Commodore's technological achievements.
Parent
Re:WTH? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:WTH? (Score:4, Informative)
Actually the firmware that has that message stored inside it is pretty rare - as the message was discovered by the public shortly after the launch of the A1000. You'd have to have an early model A1000 as Commodore management recalled most of them. The A500 was in fact designed by the West Chester group probably because of that incident and most certianly wouldn't have contained roms that had that particular message in it.
Parent
'Personal computers', but not 'PCs' (Score:5, Interesting)
Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48K
Psion Series 5
And yes, I am British. What gave it away?
Re:'Personal computers', but not 'PCs' (Score:2, Funny)
AMSTRAD 1512 (Score:2)
rus
IBM PC not #1? (Score:3, Interesting)
No, cause the original IBM PC was a piece of crap (Score:2)
I have never met anybody who owned one. Everyone I know who had a computer at home had a C64, an Apple, or a Trash 80.
~Philly
Re:IBM PC not #1? (Score:5, Insightful)
The IBM-PC and PC/XT just weren't designed to be home machines. In the US, Commodore, Atari and Apple computers were all more affordable than the PC. IBMs were equipped more for business use. Monochrome graphics were standard on the IBMs, and they often had HDDs in the 10-30 MB range, not really needed in home apps then. You could get CGA color for IBMs, but it really wasn't worth it -- the home computer world is more than green, puple, black and white. 16 color C=64s and Ataris were far better for home applications where more colors was more important than higher resolution.
Even an XT clone like a "Leading Edge" was very pricey at $2000 or so in the middle of the decade. A Commodore 64 around the same time could be had for $300, another $300 or so for the floppy. A TV would do for a color monitor if you didn't want to spend another $200 for a dedicated S-Video monitor. If you bought a C=64 or an Atari for home use instead of an IBM PC, you'd have money left over to get a printer and modem and a subscription to compuserve or Q-Link. And your non-IBM comptuers had sound!
IBM tried to crack the home market with the PCJr in the 2nd half of the decade, but this annoyed and insulted home users more than anything. The keyboard, in particular, was a huge failure with the wireless interface and chicklet keys.
I'm not knocking IBM PCs. They were great business (personal) computers, and the clones made possible by the "openness" of the bus design did greatly influence home computing later. They just weren't a good choice for most homes (in the 1980s) where computers might be used to play games, run education software, some word-processing and maybe a little finance, in that order -- sort of upside-down version of what the IBMs were good for.
Parent
No Amstrads? (Score:2)
No Commodore 64 or VIC-20? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:No Commodore 64 or VIC-20? (Score:5, Interesting)
No Commodore 8-bits, even though they reached critical mass in the United States. No Sinclairs, even though they reached critical mass in the UK. But a 6-month old Toshiba makes the list because it has an HD-DVD drive that almost nobody can use today?
Yeah, I agree with another poster: This Top 25 list was brought to you by Toshiba.
Parent
One of many "missing" (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:One of many "missing" (Score:2)
Re:One of many "missing" (Score:3, Insightful)
You jest, but remember that Mac OS X is a direct decendant of NeXT. When Apple bought them, several of the key management positions (esp. CEO (Steve Jobs), but also VP of Software Engineering and
Arbitrary? (Score:2)
Subjective and arbitrary on /.? You must be new here.
IMSAI 8080 (Score:2)
Good to see they didn't forget the Commodore Amiga.
I gotta say it (Score:5, Funny)
RTFA (Score:2)
~Philly
Commodore 64, The Nintendo before the Nintendo (Score:3, Insightful)
It took us a while to find out: LOAD"*",8,1 or sometimes only LOAD"*",8
But once we unlocked all those games, it was a party time that finally broke the era of boring Atari 2600 games. Commodore rocked so hard. Then came Nintendo 8 bit which didn't entirely blow C64 out of the water, but was the 2nd biggest step in gaming, the first being Atari2600 or Colleco(from your vantage point) to C64.
I loved my c64 and would have kept it if someone didn't offer me $300 for it in 1993 when internet PCs were just starting to make it for the public.
Clearly a contentious list (Score:5, Interesting)
A friend who used to work at Lockheed told me how they once developed a communications bus that worked on the 64's parallel port and allowed the computers to be used as a multi-node supercomputer. They used the rig to calculate "safe" trajectories and orientations for a stealth fighter jet when flying through hostile radar zones. They bought the machines at Toys R Us.
Atari 800! Yay! (Score:3, Interesting)
I learned everything on that little guy. Kyan Pascal. Deep Blue C. Action! (a C-like language tight enough to write side scrolling shooters in) Atari Basic and later a version of BASIC that would compile to machine code for decent speed (QuickBASIC???). 6502 assembler. Even FORTRAN and Forth.
Christ on a cracker, I feel old. :(
Wow. We have 12 of those. (Score:5, Funny)
Ok, now for -my- list, and... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Ok, now for -my- list, and... (Score:3, Interesting)
the emate (Score:3, Insightful)
This is not to insult the Newton dev team. The Newton was never intended to browse the net anyway, and never had any internal acceleration for text manipulation and rendering. And the environment - whoa. It's the prettiest thing since LMI and Symbolics. NewtonScript is an ease to hack. If you care you can code up c++ snippets and call them from within Newtonscript. So, you can write fast stuff - but you're still limited to NewtonScript to interact with the OS for drawing and datebase access (no filesystem, a relational db for data storage instead). Actually, I bet the relational db is part of why the Newton is so slow too.
The Newton has a lot to teach for UI consistency and streamlined design. It really was a beautiful product. I look at Squeak and think: THAT should be the next Newton. Not Gnome, KDE, or Windows XP Tablet edition (Never mind CE). *sigh*
Want to have fun? Check out Einstein [kallisys.com], a Newton emulator for MacOS X and Linux/ARM: You'll have to use your nefarious hax0r sk11z too find a Newton ROM and then you too can learn 'bout the Newton (and emate) without having to ebay one.
What, no Packard Bell? (Score:3, Funny)
TRS Model 100 (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:TRS Model 100 (Score:4, Interesting)
Yes, in fact going to 80x86 was rather disapointing in contrast. The TRS-80 model 100 had hell of alot of battery life, somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 hours or so, on 4 double aa batteries. You could at least get some work done if for example you were on an international flight, and can get away without having extra batteries.
Parent
A Very American List (Score:4, Informative)
In the UK in the late 70's and early 80's a very different computing buzz was going on, so I'd like to mention the claims of two other machines: the BBC Micro and the Sinclair ZX Spectrum.
The Spectrum was the machine (even more than the ZX80 and 81 before it) that switched lots of kids of my generation onto computing. And it's why, to this day, we have some of the best programmers, developers (and games people) in the world. It may not have had the graphics and audio power of the C64, but it took ingenuity to squeeze perfomance out of Uncle Clive's little rubber keyed wonder. A huge kitechen sink games market grew up around the Spectrum and many of us learned to program on it.
The BBC Micro was damn near ubiquitous in British schoools in the 1980's and is probably the one thing about Margaret Thatcher's time in office that she called absolutely correctly: the need to get computers into schools. Sincalir came very close to winning the contract to supply BBC-badged computers to put into our schools (as apart of an initiative to introduce home computing to the masses), but in the end Acorn (later to become ARM) got the nod. For the time, the Beeb was a pretty powerful and expandable machine, with probably the best version of BASIC on the market.
Both of these machines helped to kick start computing in the UK, but never really made it across the pond (though the Speccy was badged as a Timex sinclair and sold in the states). A whole generation of kids used the Beeb at school and came home ot a spectrum (the best seller here). Before the IBM ear, these were the machines that defined home comuting in the UK.
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:WTF? (Score:2)
Re:WTF? (Score:2)
a PC is by definition a Personal Computer. In common usage it's often used erraneously to specifically talk about IBM compatibles, but that's hardly the definition of the term.
Re:WTF? (Score:2)
Re:WTF? (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:WTF? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would have modded this -.5 Naieve instead of Troll. Oh well.
In the olden days, what we call PCs were called IBM Clones. Everything else was called PC in some form or another. (As memory serves, it was usually spelled out as 'personal computer'.) Over time, x86 machines took over and marketshares for everything else were in the single digits. The term PC, by de-facto, became 'a Windows machine using an Intel or AMD processor'. I'm not saying the definition was/is super-strict, (Linux boxes have been called PCs, for example...) but when you see mags like PC Gamer, you start building a new impression of what PC commonly refers to.
What parent poster is saying isn't totally false. We've all heard of Mac vs. 'PC' debates. I don't think the current generation is as aware of why the PC distinction took place originally. Back in the olden days, a computer occupied a huge room and only the gov't or big corps had them. Maybe I'm being a little dramatic here, but the reason my definition of PC changed was because I've been reading a lot of Asimov. His stories were rather vague about people having their own computers, but there was always some big major computer (Multivac) that everything was centralized to. It wasn't until.. what.. the 70's until people actually had significant computing power in their homes.
I think we should cut the guy a little slack. It probably would have been a little clearer if the title had said Personal Computers instead of PCs. (Though I'll grant that his post was superficially nitpicky.)
Parent
Re:WTF? (Score:3, Interesting)
As the article states, there is plenty of debate over whether the Altair was the first personal computer, but most of that debate isn't arguing whether or not an earlier computer was called a "personal computer" but rather whether or not it took the role of a personal co
Re:WTF? (Score:2, Informative)
I'm not responsible for your definitions. PC is simply an abbreviation for "personal computer" and that's the way IBM used it. IBM did not sell 5150 "PC"s. They sold "IBM PCs."
KFG
Re:iMac? (Score:2)
Re:99er Magazine (Score:3, Interesting)
Another great one that is missing is the Timex/Sinclar 1000 [oldcomputers.net], a $99 machine with 1k of