Windows Vista To Come In 7 Flavors 815
Dionne writes "Microsoft is really milking it with this one: According to an Ars Technica report, there will be 7 versions of Windows Vista: Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small
Business Edition, Enterprise Edition, and Ultimate Edition." From the article: "Windows Vista Ultimate Edition is a superset of both Vista Home Premium and Vista Pro Edition, so it includes all of the features of both of those product versions, plus adds Game Performance Tweaker with integrated gaming experiences, a Podcast creation utility (under consideration, may be cut from product), and online "Club" services (exclusive access to music, movies, services and preferred customer care) and other offerings (also under consideration, may be cut from product)."
Flavours? (Score:5, Funny)
They left out.. (Score:5, Funny)
they also left out... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:They left out.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:They left out.. (Score:5, Interesting)
From TFA:
One final note worth mentioning is that this strategy does remove the "corporate Windows XP" option from the hands of pirates. Volume licensing for Pro, SBE, and EE may still mean that there will be copies of Windows Vista out there that don't "call home" for Windows Product Activation, but as you can see, Microsoft has removed most of the features that most pirates would want from those OSes. You won't see corporate licensing versions of Ultimate Edition.
So, no volume licences for versions with all the fancy multimedia bells and whistles (HDTV, DVD authoring, DVD ripping, etc). They seem to figure potential pirates would want these features and businesses will not. Though speaking as someone who has worked in a school's IT department I can say there's at least one environment that may well want features like that but still has enough installs to do to make per machine activiation impractical.
Re:They left out.. (Score:5, Insightful)
I think they were refering to stability, since DVD authoring/ripping or any other "feature" can easily be done 3rd party. Granted it would be nice to have a stable OS that can natively rip DVD's however once you look at the pricetag
It's also been my experience that "pirates" take what they can get and are more interested in distributing than actually using the software they pirate. It's also more of the thrill to have something illegal than what the capabilities are. How many pirates do you know that distribute FreeBSD?
I think it would be nice that Windows could readily run 400+ days uptime like some of their Unix based competitors that are free. Instead one pays $1000+ US for Windows Server farming abilities (again can be done for free). I've lost count how many "Windows Preachers" I've told "*nix can do that to and it's free". Why not ditch windows and give that $1000+ to a *nix programmer. You get exactlly what you want and do something about the worlds unemployment rate at the same time.
Re:They left out.. (Score:3, Insightful)
I think they were refering to stability, since DVD authoring/ripping or any other "feature" can easily be done 3rd party.
I thought about that, and then I realized something. I can also use those 3rd party apps on XP. Plus it doesn't have all that pesky DRM. I'll stick with what I've got.
Re:They left out.. (Score:5, Insightful)
7 different Windows has GOT to cause some confusion in the marketplace. This is another example of something that may look good on paper, but in reality, isn't. This will lead to people buying "the wrong" Windows, and being told they have to upgrade via a retail product from #4 to #3, for only $179, to use some software or feature. This WILL lead to some people seeking alternatives.
Re:They left out.. (Score:4, Funny)
I wasn't aware there was a "right" version of Windows...
Re:They left out.. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Flavours? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Flavours? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Flavours? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Flavours? (Score:3, Insightful)
Compared to Linux it is.
Re:Flavours? (Score:5, Informative)
Oh for cryin' out loud -- I seriously don't know how much easier it can get to install linux anymore. Pick a major distro, any distro, pop in cd or dvd, answer a couple questions (i.e., keyboard layout, time zone, use entire disk (or freespace), username, password (type it twice), wait awhile, done). No endless install driver, reboot, install driver, reboot, install driver, reboot, install software, reboot. When linux is done, it's done for 90% of what people want -- surf net, read email, write papers. And adding the extra things just isn't that darn hard (e.g., in ubuntu, fire up synaptic and click little checkboxes and then press "install", similar process with Suse YaST, and I'm sure RH/Fedora is just as easy).
It is a bald faced lie to say linux is hard to install. The fact is, it's becoming SO darn easy that I fear linux is going to loose it's geek coolness factor -- anyone who can put a CD in a computer has all the skills necessary to install linux right now.
Re:Flavours? (Score:5, Informative)
Well I hope I'm not being redundant on someone elses comment here, but the trueness (or falseness) or your statement has everything to do with what you call a complete linux installation.
If you mean getting the linux kernel, a handful of common apps, and the X desktop at a standard resolution installed... then I agree with you 100%.
But, If you mean getting linux installed so that it can interface with my digital camera, connect seamlessly with my palm handheld, read my SD cards without playing games, or play encrypted DVD's without installing extra libraries.... then I'd have to disagree with you. All these things are much easier to get done in Windows.
Re:Flavours? (Score:5, Insightful)
Linux is hard to install on my computers.
Take my first home-built system, please: a 1.8GHz Celeron, 512MB RAM, onboard video, AGP GeForce4, Sound Blaster 5.1, using that wonderfully user-friendly, easy-to-install Ubuntu (4 or 5, same results):
On first boot, it defaults to displaying on the onboard video, giving a blank screen if the monitor is plugged into the GeForce4, even if the onboard video is disabled in the BIOS. It can be fixed, and it's not difficult if you already know how to reconfigure the X server.
On first boot, my nVIDIA card doesn't have the proper drivers installed. It certainly isn't difficult, but it requires a driver install, then a restart of the X server.
On first boot, my wireless card isn't properly detected. It can be fixed, and it's not difficult if you already know how to install and use Windows wireless drivers, and yours happens to be supported (in my case, not yet).
On first boot, my Sound Blaster 5.1 isn't detected as a sound card. It can be fixed, and it's not difficult if you already know how to recompile the kernel.
When installing Windows 2000, yes, I have to install drivers. The process for that: Double click, maybe reboot. You don't have to know a damn thing to do that. It is easier to install Windows 2000 on my computer; Linux is comparatively hard to install.
Note that I'm not saying that this is true for all computers, but it is true for my computer, and it disproves your assertion that it is a bald faced lie to say linux is hard to install.
I just said it, and it's true for me. Therefore, it's not a lie. If I'm a computer user who has a video card AND onboard video, and I try to install Ubuntu and get a black screen on first boot, yes, Linux is a bitch to install. If I'm a computer user who doesn't know how to recompile a Linux kernel to support specific, unsupported hardware, yes, Linux is a huge bitch to get to work. And if you don't have a wireless card that your distro of Linux natively supports, it can be a bitch to get it to work.
On my Dell? ATI video card drivers are bitchy. On my last homebuilt system? Sound is again a bitch to set up. The only computer I own on which Linux has never been difficult to install is my G3 iMac.
Many of those things aren't Linux's fault - hardware vendors are stupid, I know - but being faultless doesn't make it easier to install on some systems.
Unless you only mean that it's not difficult to get Linux to boot from the hard drive of a computer - and even then, there are problems that, for some, would make it hard to do - then no, for the most part and for many people it's not hard. But to say that "it is a bald faced lie to say linux is hard to install" just makes those who can't, for legitimate reasons, easily install it feel stupid.
Sorry, but not true. (Score:4, Interesting)
Suse: The default installation hanged (sorry, don't remember what point). But I remember you could hit a button (I think F2) for an options menu. I remember the choices there were highly technical, which is to be expected of course since I'm starting to dink around. But I randomly guessed fer-the-helluvit and because I had no idea what I was doing (and I already consider myself slightly more knowledgeable than most computer users--at least I have a certificate in Comp Sci from SFU!) Anyway, I chose Custom (I think it was), and that's when excitement finally happened: it started blitzing through hardware detection, and my joy was great indeed. Then, it gave an error message, and I was booted to a linux prompt (bash I think it's called?). All I knew what to do was type -ls (yes, laugh, I'm a total linux noob). So I did. After doing that four or five times more, the novelty was gone and I tried to go online and find out what to do (there's got to be something wrong). I found out I'm supposed to type 'StartX' or something like that. I tried it, but it said there was something wrong with my video mode (wasn't supported, it explicitly said). So I
quit and tried the recently discussed Freespire edition of Linspire.
My Freespire installation seemed to go smoothly until I was presented with a login and password scenario. I thought maybe I had downloaded the wrong thing. As determined as I was, I went online to checkout what to do, and was taught I was supposed to enter "root" and login and something else as password (don't remember anymore). To be honest, I don't remember what happened after that, but it was enough to make me give up.
To be honest, I may have mixed the 2 problems up above because I don't remember exactly which errors happened to which (I know, just a week ago). The entire testing period was just a time of frustration for me. I even tried to get some of the basics online, and was baffled to be told that, while windows letters the drives, linux makes primary, secondary, etc. drives with names like '/hdav1" and "/ndev4" or some gibberish (to me) like that. And the counting would skip numbers sometimes, I believe?
The problem with your assertion is that linux is only easy to install if you're already familiar with it. But perhaps EASY TO USE should be defined to mean EASY TO LEARN HOW TO USE. Under this definition, I'm sorry my friend, but linux is therefore not easy to use.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I had to do basic research about which distros to use ("DON'T use Debian, it's not for noobs like you!", "omg installations a breeze: just make and mount drives, or make and compile, etc." -- um.. what is this "mount" thing you speak of? "how the hell do I compile an operating system itself?" etc.)
Oh yeah. For those who still give a shit, I also tried Debian, just becuase I remember reading that notebooks are not supported very well, and since Debian is supposed to be the pro's choice and the most tweakable, I figured it might have the mighty powers to save me. It might, but I'll maybe never be able to find out. It'd take me weeks just to learn everything in the introductory pages. Mother of god, like I don't already have enough stuff to read (MA in English). I guess it'd be ok if that was your passion and hobby (playing with computers is a minor passion and hobby for me), but for most people, I doubt they'd even bother googling for basic help the moment something went wrong.
Re:Sorry, but not true. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Flavours? (Score:5, Insightful)
Now that 60% of your memory is used up, you can start thinking about which $500 applications you want. A word processor and spreadsheet maybe? $500. Maybe some photo editing software? $700. You get my point. Easy to use out of the box, sure. That's because it can't do anything out of the box... and you've already spent $150 on it!
I personally will stick with Linux which has no box and a new piece of software is just an apt-get away.
Even if you manage to do everything you want to do with free software under Windows, you still have to go out and find it every damn time you re-install. And you have to keep it up to date yourself, there's nothing that automates that. Easy to use indeed.
Re:Flavours? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Flavours? (Score:3, Insightful)
Many of them are auxiliary MS employees. This means they work in an MS shop, and have been trained on MS tools. They are blind to anything else, and simply see problems with MS products as 'The Way things Work'.
They ignore problems with MS products, or equate them with Marketshare problems of Linux/Mac. To them, although Windows may have its problems, Linux/Mac must obviously have more serious problems, or the software/hardware selection on those platforms wouldn't be s
Re:Flavours? (Score:3, Insightful)
Please someone send me a copy of latest RHEL. If you think that I can buy one copy of RHEL 4 and run it on several servers (even though I don't need Redhat's up2date/RHN services), you should most definately read the license conditions.
Re:Flavours? (Score:4, Informative)
The *only* thing you pay for is support.
Link here:
http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/eval/ [redhat.com]
You sign up for the 'evaluation'. You get the full install, and a one month subscription.
You do not get updates after one month.
With RHEL, you aren't paying for the software, you are paying for the support. Period.
More information:
https://www.redhat.com/archives/redhat-migration-
The source will always be avaliable from Redhat. Period. It's a free product.
Don't expect someone to wrap the package up for you and present it in a usable form, with free updates, though. They aren't under any license requirement, and they've already given you the full source. Don't you think its a little ungrateful to ask for more?
About the pre-built systems:
Wow. I wasn't aware of that. I just saw that on Dell's small business site. And you even save ~$75 per system, which is great. That's definitely a good thing. A caveats, however: you can't get a laptop like that. And you won't get proper hardware support (like dell's non-standard compliant ACPI implementations). Still, that's really just a small quibble.
I don't remember seeing that option before, but I guess its been awhile since I've shopped at Dell.
I have happily paraded HP's Linux laptop to people, however. Perhaps competition will reign in the future.
Re:Flavours? (Score:3, Insightful)
Otherwise, you can put ALL of that on one DVD, and install it with no more than few reboots. All you need is program like UltraISO [ezbsystems.com], and a guide like this [winsupersite.com]. You know, you CAN slipstream SP2, and all the latest patches and drivers into Windows installation. And use simple unattend.txt file to set defaults to most installation options (CD key, keyboard setting,
Re:Hey Mr. Comedian - enough with BSOD (Score:3, Funny)
Seriously, my last install of windows had something screwed up with some *ntfs*.* file (it loaded straight to BSOD every time). I was under linux most of the time and I -- having spent few hours trying to correct the problem -- didn't want to re-install an OS I wasn't using a lot (plus I'd have to fix GRUB).
Solution: I installed windows on another disc, booted from it and then chose the first installation during the boot time.
Problem: linux was on the firs
Since you ask (Score:3, Informative)
That's on my company's Windows 2000 desktops, so that doesn't give me grounds to complain about XP. And I haven't used XP for about two years, since it started crashing on me. So my information may be out of date.
Re:Flavours? (Score:3, Insightful)
I sure hope they have Office Vista too so that people will be even more confused nothing like 14 products with the same name. The whole naming Office and Windows the same is one great big butt f*ck for IT people.
Atleast once a month someone asks me to reinstall Office XP on their computer, means Windows XP and gives me the wrong CD and then blames me for making things too complicated and saying I
Re:Flavours? (Score:5, Informative)
Microsoft Office Word 2003 [buy.com] (the upgrade version is about half the price)
Microsoft Office Excel 2003 [buy.com] (the upgrade version is about half the price)
If "too many options confuse people and make them pissed off," then Linux is absolutely fucked.
Re:Flavours? (Score:4, Insightful)
Yeah, Baskin Robbins and Campbell's soup really have a hard time.
Oh, wait you are making shit up
Yes. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Yes. (Score:5, Insightful)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Wow... are they also going to include Cedega? (Score:3, Insightful)
Honestly folks, how many times has microsoft and its partners delivered a secure, clean and workable product?
Two of these three is ALWAYS missing:
Secure
Clean
Workable
Good Pricing
Value for money
But usually more than 2 missing. After my last "hunt" for drivers in windows XP and 2000, I don't even find them "well supported" anymore. But then again, I have exotic hardware, not a 499 + 500 dollar rebate PC from walmart.
~D
Re:Wow... are they also going to include Cedega? (Score:4, Funny)
Two of these three is...
Second Brother: First shalt thou take out the Holy Pin. Then, shalt thou count to three. No more. No less. Three shalt be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, nor either count thou two, excepting that thou then proceed to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the third number, be reached, then, lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who, being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.
Maynard: Amen.
Knights: Amen.
Arthur: Right! One!... Two!... Five!
Galahad: Three, sir!
Arthur: Three!
[angels sing]
[boom]
There goes Vista! Sorry, I just had to...
Distrowatch will need a new catagory... (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone know what the major differences are between the versions then? Will schools (which is where I make a living as a sysadmin) and businesses require Enterprise edition for networks or what?
I should RTFA, eh?
Re:Distrowatch will need a new catagory... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, and they would all be named... (Score:5, Funny)
1. Slackware Spam
2. Slackware Eggs Ham Spam
3. Slackware Spam Eggs Spam and Eggs Ham Spam
4. Slackware Spam Spam Spam Eggs Spam Ham Spam
5. Slackware Eggs Spam Spam Spam Ham Spam Spam.
6. Slackware Spam Spam Spam Spam Ham Spam Ham.
and
7. Slackware Eggs Spam and Spam Ham Spam with Eggs Ham Spam.
Re:Distrowatch will need a new catagory... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Too many targets (Score:5, Interesting)
You know, I actually remember back when home computers were new....and actually called home computers (or, sometimes, microcomputers). Back then every computer brand was utterly different, different OS, different base language, often a different processor. It was chaos and it was glorious. There were a massive amount of computer systems to choose from, from extremely light, low end, cheap systems like the Timex-Sinclair 1000, to the mid-range C-64, to the expensive IBM PC. All were different. All had a wealth of software avaliable for them. Developers wrote software for their chosen machines, their chosen OS, but often they wrote completely different versions of the same software for multiple types of machines (Visicalc was a good example of this). Nobody complained to my knowledge.
Too many people have grown up in a monopolist, monoculture society, they think computing has to be that way and always has been.
As for the different distributions of Linux....yes, they are different distributions of Linux, but they are not really different "distributions" of the same OS. Essentially they are different operating systems, each built around GNU and the Linux kernel. Do we call OS X a "distribution" of BSD? No, not really, it's a unique OS qith it's own quirks, and it's own top layer, and it's customised. Linux distros are no different. Most take GNU and the Linux kernel, and add a top layer of their own. That top layer may itelf be just mildly customised versions of the "standard" along with a few custom libraries and integrated applications (Mandriva, SuSE, etc...) or it may be more radical (GNUStep). Sometimes, they are even proprietary (Linspire). And they all usually customise the kernel to suit their needs, so between them even the kernel is different. They are all different competing operating systems, based around the same standards and low level components, rather than different "versions" of the same OS. For that, you need to look at the different versions within the same distro.
Re:Distrowatch will need a new catagory... (Score:5, Insightful)
First of all, knock off the "starter edition" altogether in most parts of the world. Even the countries where it exists, it's not used significantly. I'm socked Microsoft is even maintaining that idea at all.
Then, most people will only ever have to worry about the two home versions. The niches they fill are pretty much pre-established: most OEMs will deliver the watered down version, whereas most do-it-yourselfers will probably get the more advanced version. Same as XP Home vs Pro.
The biggest fragmentation seems to be in the business-oriented versions, but even current businesses have some fragmentation (2003 server vs. XP Pro.) Adding one "distro" and separating the "home pros" from the "work pros" isn't all that unreasonable. In fact, companies might welcome the default removal of the media player. Lastly, you get the Windows with Everything, including the kitchen sink--something that's necessary in case you want the business features coupled with multimedia features.
Truth is, 99% of the people will use whatever's handed to them. The only people who will have any sort of decision to make will be the power users and corporations, who can just run down the feature list and choose whatever meets their needs. Assuming the prices scale (and assuming/hoping that they are more-or-less bounded by the current pricing scheme) what this actually does is add more choice for how to spend your money, and add more gradations of money to spend. Really, it's a step towards the right direction in Windows, which would be allowing you to custom build the components you want and getting a price based on what you asked for.
Re:Distrowatch will need a new catagory... (Score:5, Insightful)
It's not that simple, man.
Do you know how many times I've had to explain to so-and-so that their computer they purchased at Best Buy with XPHome and brought to work can't be joined to the domain? That it isn't going to be able to use Exchange-based Outlook?
This is a real common problem for us ground-pounders who support small-to-medium businesses. For example, a lot of the clients I deal with started out with a simple workgroup, and have since wanted to upgrade to a 2003 SBServer in order to gain access to Exchange, centralized file storage, and centralized user management. But, sice they bought their computers from CompUSA, they have to now buy all new computers, with a $160 OS. Or pay hourly to upgrade from XPHome to Pro, plus the $99 upgrade. Real Estate offices are notorius for this - agents usually buy their own computers for use in the office.
Making more versions of windows is only going to compound this issue. Additionally, you're going to get users who expect certain things to be in the OS, and will call and ask when they aren't. Or, how about "removing media player from the pro version"?? You don't charge *more* for a product, and strip things out of it.
This is going to be an end-user support nightmare. When they don't understand now that there are two versions, and the differences between them, what's going to happen when there are 6 or 7 available?
~Will
'Ultimate' Edition (Score:5, Interesting)
What are the odds that you'll be able to 'upgrade' from one version to the other by changing one registry key? [theregister.co.uk]
Re:'Ultimate' Edition (Score:5, Funny)
And rebooting. Don't forget the rebooting.
Re:'Ultimate' Edition (Score:5, Interesting)
This is going to confuse the hell out of people. (Score:5, Insightful)
Home users probably won't know what version they have, and that will complicate tech support calls of all types. It'll be difficult to help people calling for aide, regardless of whether they're calling Dell tech support or their nephew.
Developers will continually have to look up what features each system supports, and may very well just end up developing for the lowest common denominator in order to maximize support across all versions.
It was difficult enough trying to get average users to understand that Windows XP Home is different from Windows XP Professional. Hell, it's difficult enough to even remember all these names, let alone remember what features are different between each.
Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people (Score:5, Informative)
Been there, done that.
- "So do you have service pack 2 installed?"
- "Uhm, maybe you should speak to my son, I am not much into this..."
- "Hold the little flag button on the bottom left of your keyboard, then push the Pause/Break button faaar up on the right at the same time"
- "Oh, something happened."
- "Can you read what is says under System?"
- "Uh, yes, Windows... copyright, oh, Service pack 2"
Usually this does not take longer than 30 secs, and will most likely work on Vista too.
Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people (Score:4, Funny)
Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people (Score:4, Informative)
Windows XP Personal Edition
Windows XP Professional Edition
Windows XP Personal Edition N
Windows XP Professional Edition N
Windows XP...
Windows XP...
I don't remember the other two off the top of my head, but I know they're there.
Or, maybe it's like Server 2003 [microsoft.com]
Which comes in 5 flavors:
Windows Server 2003 Standard Edition
Windows Server 2003 Enterprise Edition
Windows Server 2003 Datacenter Edition
Windows Server 2003 High-Performance Computing
Windows Small Business Server 2003
(I left out the x64, and ia64 flavors, as I don't believe those are actually really all that much of "flavors" but they are sold seperately, so I guess you could make it 7.)
So, wow. Despite actually having the names for the flavors of Windows Vista. What's the news here? That Microsoft has targetted its products since XP? That's is old news.
Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people (Score:3, Funny)
Hmmmm, what level of computing are the four then?
Better nip this one early (Score:5, Funny)
that's the point (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people (Score:5, Funny)
Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people (Score:3, Funny)
The user claimed he was running Windows56. Nothing right? Well the tech listened more to the users problem and then he claimed everything was upside down.
Turns out he had his monitor upside down and "95" turned into "56"/
God AOL users are the best.
Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:This is going to confuse the hell out of people (Score:4, Funny)
So six of them have artificial limitations? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:So six of them have artificial limitations? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:So six of them have artificial limitations? (Score:5, Funny)
Then Microsoft will be forced to release Windows Vista Champion Edition.
The infamous Missing Vista Editions... (Score:5, Funny)
- Vista Compact Edition: with just the software you need, including the much appreciated MSOfficeCompact, this edition runs on your P100 with 128Mb.
- Vista Instant Edition: bootable in so many ways, this is all the software you need to boot that recaltricant box and get it working again. Comes complete with legacy support for every known device.
- Vista Grandmother Edition: simple, fast, and based on all the best of Windows Secure, this is the software you wished you'd had when your parents asked, "How do I get onto the Internet?"
- Vista Open Edition: free, and packed to the hilt with first-class open source, all verified and tuned by MicrosoftOpenLabs for that smooth experience. Comes with full source code.
Re:The infamous Missing Vista Editions... (Score:5, Funny)
- Vista EU Edition: Starter or Home Basic without Media Player.
- Vista Monopoly Edition: clippy destroys any software that does not belong to Microsoft.
Re:The infamous Missing Vista Editions... (Score:5, Funny)
http://www.openbsd.org/ [openbsd.org]
- Vista Compact Edition
http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ [damnsmalllinux.org]
- Vista Instant Edition
http://www.knoppix.org/ [knoppix.org]
- Vista Grandmother Edition
http://www.apple.com/ [apple.com]
- Vista Open Edition
http://www.debian.org/ [debian.org]
I see this as a good thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Hrm it seems every slap of the wrist helps them (Score:4, Funny)
Also, this is a bit of a 'hey EU, we are suing you but, look, you can't get us on not offering enough versions now, lol'.
BTW, I don't get it, Microsoft is suing the EU, that means they are reaching into the pockets of every tax paying EU citizen, and taking money, you know, EU lawyers and teams are not free to deal with this crap.
I say, you cannot have corporations bullying europe like this, no a flame, but honestly, US is PWNED by microsoft, things are going swimmingly for them, but with patents and their flagrant disregard for the laws and judgements of europe, I think people should wake up soon and jump ship.
Oh well, it wouldn't suprise me if Microsoft bashing has become a moderat..able offense, see you in -1 land, any second now.
Support nightmare (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm already having a headache with 7 different editions of Windows 2003 Server and what limitations each one has. Now 7 desktop editions. Obviously they like the number 7.
Can't they just do like Apple and have 1 Client and 1 Server edition of the OS. Even RedHat has only 3 server editions and 1 desktop edition.
Nooo, MSFT has decided to milk us all the way with a product segmentation strategy. Well, I guess that they need all the money they can get with their revenues being stagnant in the past several years.
hell yes. (Score:5, Interesting)
There's eight different servers (a test bed), just about all of them have to be treated in some special way (iis5 exports stuff differently than iis6, forcing me to write my parser *twice* to make things work right.
Even better, sometimes different service packs change things around in undocumented ways, forcing me to once again re-write individual scripts to take that into account.
Eight boxes, two versions of Microsoft operating systems, two service packs and I have five(!) different scripts to handle it all and make it work.
Where Do You Want To Go Today, indeed.
Re:Support nightmare (Score:3, Insightful)
Tech: "What OS are you running?"
Clueless: "What do you mean OS?"
Tech: "It's the thing running your computer."
Clueless: "Oh, Dell."
Tech: "Dell is the manufacturer... who makes the software on it?"
Clueless: "OH!!! I'm sorry. OpenOffice."
Tech: "*sigh* Ok, open up a terminal."
Clueless: "How do I do that?"
Tech: "Well, if you're using Linux GNOME, find the little icon that is located somewhere on some panel that's a little screen like th
Will there be... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Will there be... (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Will there be... (Score:5, Insightful)
No, really. If Apple opens that up to all Wintel computer companies, it will rule them all. That is if they ever do.
Article Text (Score:5, Funny)
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Seems like a load of arse to me. (Score:5, Interesting)
Still - I'm not worried - it looks like England will win the Test, and I run Linux, so all is well.
More Windows confusion good for Linux (Score:3, Funny)
- 1 copy of Windows Vista, please.
- Will that be Starter Edition, Home Basic Edition, Home Premium Edition, Professional Edition, Small Business Edition, Enterprise Edition or Ultimate Edition?
- Uh... Never mind, just give me the latest openSUSE Linux.
One can only hope...
Alternative ending:
- Does the Enterprise Edition come with Kirk or Picard?
Every other OS is easier to buy(or simply:select)? (Score:5, Interesting)
Remember there was a company that had an ad [man.ac.uk] complaining how Linux came in too many "mutations" (the basis of evolution BTW)?
New Motto (Score:5, Funny)
Educated guesses (Score:5, Insightful)
I predict that...
General people will buy the cheapest version that runs all applications. That version will be bundled with majority of the home computers. That will probably be the 'Basic' Home version. Don't expect it to be any cheaper than current Home Edition - MS has a monopoly, no reason to undercut in such situation. Premium crap will most likely be priced like today's Pro version, and will only sell to the crowd that today buys Media Center Edition.
If there are feature differences that matter to the applications (such as games or normal productivity apps) everyone will ignore crippled versions - bye bye starter ed. Dunno why MS can't figure this out.
Ultimate Edition will probably be sold to the Alienware/Dell XPS crowd that is too clueless. Rest will ignore the MS software clutter - especially since the ultimate edition has 'subscription' written all over it - the OS itself might work without one, but if it adds any downloadable extras, those will definitely want your personal information, and probably monthly fee sooner or later. I guess MS has gotten addicted to the mothly income it gathers from XBox Live subscribers. Someone has probably calculated how much they'd make if they could milk monthly fees from (some) Windows users as well.
As far as Warez goes - unless the 'Corporate Pro/Enterprise editions' are crippled in some way that matters to home user (lack of MCE features doesn't really qualify), that will be the version(s) that will make rounds - just like today. Additionally the 'Ultimate' version will be cracked to satisfy the 'Must have best version' crowd that previously cackled and downloaded warez versions of such gems as Win2003 Advanced Server for their home PCs so they could have the 'best' Windows. However, most won't want to bother with the extra bloat - or it will be ripped out of the Ultimate and plugged to a suitably modded Corporate version.
Just my 2 cents...
Customer confusion (Score:5, Funny)
Customer: I want to upgrade my Windows 2000 machine to Vista. Which version do I need?
M$: Oh that's easy. How much money do you have?
I can see it now (Score:3, Insightful)
So besides buying an antivirus subscription and antispyware now the user will have to buy an OS upgrade to do much of anything.
Fork Vista. I'm SO glad to have started moving away from Windoze long ago.
Obvious (Score:5, Interesting)
3 applications? That that include background utilities like virus scanner and firewall? What about IM? So I have AVG, Zonealarm and Trillian running (did I pick the right ones? those are the current choices on
What's that sound? (Score:3, Insightful)
If you can't get 'em with quality, hit 'em with quantity!
I'm moving to linux (Score:5, Funny)
Working Edition (Score:5, Funny)
I don't care how many flavors they have. Just give me a Working Edition
This is an example of markting out of control (Score:4, Insightful)
7? Sheesh.
Vista? What a JOKE (Score:5, Insightful)
I make my living as a software architect for a large national corporation using the Win32 platform. I've got over 15 years coding & design experience.
I started out with Borland products, but slowly migrated to MS products due to the following factors:
1) Tools were built by the makers of the OS
2) API Documentation
3) Microsoft's desire to support the development community
4) OS stability - Laugh if you like, but at the time there wasn't much else to run on an 8088.
Screw The Developers
Recently, Microsoft has decided that the development community needed more "options" - In other words, let's screw all of the MSDN Universal holders into "Upgrading" to a new type of subscription - Therefore changing the concept of "Universal" to mean "Kinda sorta, but not really". You no longer can get "EVERYTHING" any more.
Screw The Consumer
Next - They're moving on to Vista (what a STUPID name) with 7 different flavors. They are "creating" a compositing desktop using the graphics hardware and touting it as the next "New Thing(tm)". Instead of using a bitmapped desktop, they've gone to this "new innovation". Uh - Mac OSX has done this since day 1. Nothing new here.
Along with "Vista", they are incorporating many "new" things - Security concepts that are really just hacks on top of a horrible idea.
Fundamentally, Microsoft has refused to accept that they themselves perpetuate the security problems they currently have. Most Win32 developers have been bottle fed to accept that the local user has admin rights. They code everything with this assumption. Because of this, Microsoft has had a VERY difficult time securing the desktop. Microsoft has no choice but to try and design around a problem of their own creation.
Fact is you cannot secure a machine where there is, effectively, no security. I say "effectively" because if all users have all rights, then where is the security?
Combine the Two Above - Rinse/Wash/Repeat
This long diatribe is really to sum up that Microsoft has ignored the problems for so long, and is not even prepared to address them with the development community. Even their latest development "security" attempts are too little too late for such an egregious flaw.
And now, to top it off, they're going to attempt to baffle the world with bullshit by releasing 7 versions of an OS - What a fantastically stupid idea.
The downward spiral started many years ago, and will end with people like me leaving the platform for something that truly performs - For something not built on technical quicksand.
(BTW - I type this from my G5 Mac in my home where the last remaining PC is serving as print server and remote desktop to host VS.NET so that I can work at home - They're are now 4 other Macs in the house)
Looks as if Microsoft... (Score:5, Insightful)
Lest you think I'm trolling, I have a legitimate question: Why must there be so much stratification?
Guy Kawasaki was fond of using the analogy of sailors and passengers aboard a ship: "A passenger gets on a ship, plays shuffleboard, and eats at the captain's table. A sailor weighs the anchor, goes into the engine room, and gets grease under his fingernails." He said that a product that was deep, indulgent, complete, and elegant could appeal to both kinds of users.
What we have here isn't any of these things. Instead, it's what a marketer sees as a way to "add value" and provide "choice" and ultimately increase revenues, but what it will really produce is confusion, because no one is going to be really sure which of Microsoft's offerings will suit them best.
Flavours... (Score:4, Funny)
Over here.. (Score:5, Interesting)
Most of users who don't know nothing of OSes, buy it thinking it is XP and they realize that once they already bought them.
I'm not sure if this is good or bad, more like a Shing Yang.
PC vendors lower their costs that way, but they don't inform the user about the OS installed.
Users realize they don't have XP when they try to do something that they used to, or when they try to download MSN. Then, the general line of thinking is "I can't get anything done with Linux, Linux suck" and they get a pirated copy of XP.
Back to the topic, it's clear that MS don't want to let Linux reach the user. They will encourage PC vendors to sell the Vista version that only boots on odd days and let's you hit the start button once per session. That way they get ahead with this problem.
Linux has a chance NOW. Linux is actually reaching the user NOW, but fails to demonstrate that it is actually good for the common tasks that the user does.
I'm not saying that something can't be done with Linux. The problem is that the user simply doesn't realize that yet and they get rid of Linux before they have a chance to do so.
Microsoft REALLY doesn't want my buisness... (Score:3, Insightful)
Never mind that this goes totally against the principles of normal economics (i.e. the more people who buy something, the less the development cost per unit... and since development cost is the only real cost for software, making less-powerful versions of the software should actually be MORE EXPENSIVE since it requires more work/testing/etc.) But I guess normal economics do not apply when you are a monopoly.
And never mind that the new OS won't run on anything but high-end machines. And will be utterly crippled with DRM and bloated with a damn 3D vector interface.
Sorry Microsoft, if I am going to buy a high-end workstation, it is going to be a mac, and everything else is going to be running Linux or FreeBSD. I probably would have continued using Windows just out of habit and so I could run my old software, but for the money I save from buying the highest end Windows OS I should be able to save more money than I would using my old software.
I mean, is Microsoft activly trying to piss as many people off as possible? I realize that they are just trying to make money, and everyone is basicly selfish... but are they actually under the delusion that consumers are going to go along with this? Is the market for the computer illiterate novice really that big that they can alienate higher end users?
I bet they will be crippled except for ultimate (Score:3, Informative)
My guess is the frame rates for games will be slowed down in all but the ultimate edition. It will be a classic MS strategy but I will try to be optimistic.
I dont like the fact that vista already criples video output on purpose to force you to be a drm enabled monitor.
I think I will stick with Windows2k which I use now. I do like the new avolon api and docking features. It looks alot like object desktop and the customization looks sweet but this other garbage is a big turn off.
MS Support Line (Score:3, Funny)
If you have Windows Vista Starter Edition - Press 1
If you have Windows Vista Home Basic Edition - Press 2
If you have Windows Vista Home Premium Edition - Press 3
If you have Windows Vista Professional Edition - Press 4
If you have Windows Vista Small Business Edition - Press 5
If you have Windows Vista Enterprise Edition - Press 6
If you have Windows Vista Ultimate Edition - Press 7
If you wish to upgrade from your old and busted prior version
of Windows, please have your credit card ready and Press 8
For all other support requests, please hang up now.
You pressed 2, if you wish to upgrade to the Ultimate Edition
please have your credit card ready and Press 1, otherwise Press 2
You pressed 2, are you SURE that you don't want to upgrade to
the Ultimate Edition? If so, please have your credit card ready
and Press 1, otherwise Press 2
Sigh! You pressed 2 again, please contact your vendor and purchase
another PC with Windows Vista pre-installed. Thank you for calling
Microsoft Support Line. ** CLICK **
Re:Windows Vista Forum (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Windows Vista Forum (Score:3, Insightful)
Why do you run your site on Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
http://uptime.netcraft.net/up/graph?site=www.winv
Is Windows, be it Windows 2000 Server or Windows 2003 Server, unable to cope with the minor loads your site receives?
Re:Why do you run your site on Linux? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because they're not stupid zealots who has to use just 1 operative system to satisfy their ego? Because they're using a hosting company who runs linux?
Re:Why do you run your site on Linux? (Score:5, Interesting)
We use the operating system that is the best for the job. I use Windows at home for some things. My notebook (which goes with me just about everywhere, including work) runs Linux. Maybe this guy just doesn't think that Windows is that hot for servers, but is more than capable as a workstation? Life isn't black and white, you know.
Re:Two *Other* Versions (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Trend? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:just wondering... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, since you ask. Microsoft, for example.
the ipod + itunes combo is an outstanding example of how simplicity, reliability, and having a complete system can win over consumers even if the device is overpriced at times, and if other MP3 players have more features.
It's also a perfect example of how having a complete range, covering a wide variety of price points and feature sets, is not actually a bad thing.
"I'd like an iPod, please."
"Certainly, sir, would that be a 20 GB iPod, a 60 GB iPod, a 2 GB iPod Nano, a 4 GB iPod Nano, a 512 MB iPod Shuffle, a 1 GB iPod Shuffle, or we have some special editions over there and some old stock including various iPod Minis over there..."
In fact, all in all there are probably several times as many different variations on the iPod as there will be on Windows Vista. So, uh, what was your point again?
Except different models of iPods are DIFFERENT (Score:3, Insightful)