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Windows Vista Faces Lawsuits

Posted by Zonk on Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:39 PM
from the expensive-view dept.
Microsoft
WindozeSux writes "When tech company Vista discovered the title for the new Windows Operating System version, company founder John Wall was not amused. John Wall may take this to court because he knows of how protective Microsoft is over their trademarks. From the article: 'A Microsoft spokesman said the company chose Vista from a list developed by the Windows team, based on attributes of the new software. Among its primary selling points are new tools for searching and viewing the contents of a PC; communications features; and a lighter desktop appearance with transparent objects.'"
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  • What about Apple? (Score:5, Funny)

    by brilinux (255400) <kg4qxk@nOSPaM.arrl.net> on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:41PM (#13147642) Homepage Journal
    Among its primary selling points are new tools for searching and viewing the contents of a PC; communications features; and a lighter desktop appearance with transparent objects.

    Why did they not just call it "Mac OS X" then? Vista... geesh.

  • BAM! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Sensible Clod (771142) <[ten.retrahc] [ta] [7-cd]> on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:44PM (#13147648) Homepage
    Turnabout == fair play.

    </optimistic>

    Does anyone think this will stop Microsoft from pulling similar stunts?

    *earth oscillates from the force of millions of Slashdotters' heads shaking*

  • Preemptive strike... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jmcmunn (307798) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:44PM (#13147651)

    Sue for the name, or be sued I guess. Sounds like they have a case for the trademark being theirs as a name, but these cases always seem silly to me. Clearly "Windows Vista" is not the same as "Vista" the software company. It's doubtful anyone is going to confuse them.

    On the other hand, you damn well bet if I happened to own a company by the name of the up-and-coming Windows OS, I would be making sure my name was EVERYWHERE right about the time the new OS came out. Hell, I'd even offer to sell them the name for $500 million or something, make it worth my time.

    • Re:Preemptive strike... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by RoadkillBunny (662203) <roadkillbunny@msn.com> on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:47PM (#13147666)
      Clearly "Windows Vista" is not the same as "Vista" the software company.

      Neighter is Microsoft Windows and Lindows.

      • Re:Preemptive strike... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jmcmunn (307798) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:50PM (#13147688)

        Yes, but Lindows was created (the idea and name) in order to woo current Windows owners into switching to an OS that sounds similar and is hyped as being easy to use etc...

        Lindows was something created after Windows, and was meant to use the name to draw customers. There is a clear diference here. Vista is an existing company with (as I understand) an entirely different product in a non-competing market.

        (oh, and I have nothing against Lindows at all, it is just not a valid argument IMHO)

        • Re:Preemptive strike... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by NutscrapeSucks (446616) on Sunday July 24 2005, @12:16AM (#13147824)
          with (as I understand) an entirely different product in a non-competing market.

          Yes, but I don't think that matters that much because both companies produce software products.

          For example, I called my cool new Windows spreadsheet program "SuperLinux", I would not be surprised if Linus Torvolds' attorney served me some papers. Just the fact that the products are both software would be confusing to everyone. (And maybe when the shoe is on the other foot, the slashbots will understand what I'm talking about.)

          Just imagine the sales calls:
          "Hi this is Fred from Vista Software"
          "Un, you mean like Windows Vista??"
          "That's only the 10th time I've heard that today."

          The thing is that a good brandname is worth zillions of dollars. I'm sure MS was fully aware of these guys and just figured they were small-fries that could easily be bought off. (And , I'm sure that Apple though the same way about TigerDirect, The Open Group, Apple Records, etc.)

        • Re:Preemptive strike... (Score:5, Insightful)

          by toddbu (748790) on Sunday July 24 2005, @01:13AM (#13148023)
          ... an entirely different product in a non-competing market

          My understanding is that "a different market" means where there is no confusion on the part of a consumer or that there is no damage to the brand. I think that Vista could easily make the case that their brand will be damaged. Imagine calling a prospective client and introducing yourself as a software company called "Vista". If the prospective client knows about Windows Vista, what will be their reaction? Whether it's positive, neutral, or negative, there's clearly brand confusion. This isn't like Microsoft Windows or Microsoft Money where you're prefixing a common word with the company name to create a new brand. If Vista is a trademarked name for any type of software, I think Microsoft has a long uphill battle.

    • Re:Preemptive strike... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Linus Torvaalds (876626) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:50PM (#13147686)

      Clearly "Windows Vista" is not the same as "Vista" the software company.

      That will be Microsoft's position right up until such time as Windows Vista is large enough to be the dominant name in the industry, and then they'll just turn around and sue him for infringing on their Windows Vista trademark.

    • Re:Preemptive strike... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by CosmeticLobotamy (155360) on Sunday July 24 2005, @12:08AM (#13147777)
      Except if "Vista" the software company ever puts out a piece of software and writes in big letters "Vista Flabbledygooker" on the box, it becomes potentially confusing. And it's going to be especially annoying if they have to write in nearly-as-big letters, "Not Windows(TM) Vista compatible" to keep from getting billions of angry letters.

      • Re:Preemptive strike... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by surprise_audit (575743) on Sunday July 24 2005, @12:26AM (#13147885)
        But also, if Vista has already trademarked their name, they *have* to defend it, or lose it.

          • Re:Preemptive strike... (Score:5, Interesting)

            by surprise_audit (575743) on Sunday July 24 2005, @02:06AM (#13148194)
            The way I understand it, you have to defend against any possible trademark infringement, because letting just one infringement pass means you could lose control of it.

            OK, so if the two parties have wildly different products, there's usually no problem. This is how Apple and Apple Records settled - Apple Records agreed to let Apple use the name, on the condition that Apple wouldn't produce music, and presumably Apple Records wouldn't make computers. I suspect there's some fancy footwork going on to get over any objections over iTunes & iPods...

            Now, with Vista being a software house, and Windows Vista supposedly being actual software (eventually), there's a lot of scope for confusion. Vista's products could be tainted by Microsoft's track record on screwing stuff up. If Vista ever wanted to market a product called Windows Vista, that's definitely a problem...

    • How many people say "Windows XP" as opposed to just "XP"? I'd bet that after "Windows Vista" comes out there won't be a single techie mentioning the name "Vista" in a conversation about computers without connecting it with Windows. I can't see how there *wouldn't* be confusion for the customers or potential customers of Vista.
    • these cases always seem silly to me.

      Lawyers make laws.
      Lawyers make laws designed to create business for lawyers.

      Personally, I find these law suits horrible, depressing, and a clear example of corruption of the legal system.
    • Clearly "Windows Vista" is not the same as "Vista" the software company. It's doubtful anyone is going to confuse them.

      How often do people drop the term "Windows". I mean, it's called 95, 98, ME, XP, NT, so why do you think it will not be called simply "Vista". Microsoft can't change the name (Well, they could, but it's unlikely because there's a huge marketing machine in place). They could, of course, could drag it through the courts, but that would be unwise PR-wise (Cue up the "Microsoft steamrolls

    • wxWindows (Score:5, Interesting)

      by burbilog (92795) on Sunday July 24 2005, @05:05AM (#13148615) Homepage
      Remember wxWindows, excellent library (better than QT IMHO)? It existed for a very long time, but Microsoft recently forced them to rename to wxWidgets.

  • I think.. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SocialEngineer (673690) <<moc.liamg> <ta> <adnapdetrevni>> on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:45PM (#13147652) Homepage

    MS deserves to be sued for picking such an un-attractive name for an OS. :P

    Windows 2000? Yeah, that works. XP? Sure. ME? Not great, but it is better than "Vista". How many people are going to actually know what "Vista" means, anyway? I'd put 20 on people thinking that the newest incarnation of Windows is some spanish distribution.

    • Re:I think.. (Score:5, Funny)

      by Dragoon412 (648209) on Sunday July 24 2005, @12:37AM (#13147925)
      How many people are going to actually know what "Vista" means, anyway? I'd put 20 on people thinking that the newest incarnation of Windows is some spanish distribution.

      Well, I know what Vista stands for:

      Viruses
      Instability
      Spyware
      Trojans
      Adware

      Quite frankly, I'm amazed they didn't find a way to work DRM in there. ;)

      • Good point (both of you who have replied so far); However, I have 2 arguments.

        One, as far as marketing goes, you should always pick something attractive that is going to appeal to your target audience. Microsoft, I'm assuming, is targetting the home user with little desire to learn computing; They want to just do it. My premise could be flawed, but I'm sure MS has something similar in mind if not that. Anyway, "Vista" isn't exactly something I would peg as attractive, or common to the desired userbase.

      • Re:I think.. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        But, Joe Public is a completely uneducated moron.
  • Windows XP Service Pack 3

  • Already have TM (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lawrence_Bird (67278) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:45PM (#13147654) Homepage
    Have you forgotten Microsloth applied for TM on the entire dictionary in 1992? http://www.microsoft.com/library/toolbar/3.0/trade marks/en-us.mspx [microsoft.com]

  • It confuses me. (Score:5, Funny)

    by espergreen (849246) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:45PM (#13147656) Homepage
    I am still trying to figure out why apple is letting tigerdirect make its operating system. :(

  • The Terminator Kills Your PC (Score:5, Funny)

    by mcmediaman (900722) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:45PM (#13147658)
    I find the name Vista to be very appropriate. I propose that on every new install, an image of the Terminator pops up, saying "Hasta la vista, baby!!!"

  • Odd name choice (Score:5, Funny)

    by loomis (141922) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:45PM (#13147660)
    "If they called it Windows Garbage, would people still buy it? Yeah, they'd buy it," said David Burd, [. . .] "They've got something like 90 percent penetration in the world of operating systems."

    Uh, wouldn't "Windows Hegemony" have been a better choice?
    • I've always thought that it would be most approriate to name Windows releases after Venereal Diseases.

      Windows Herpes, Windows Gonorrhea...

      It would seem to more accurately reflect Windows does to your computer.

  • Don't they know about www.uspto.gov? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Deton8 (522248) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:46PM (#13147661)
    When my company wants to propose a name a new product, one of the steps is to go to the USPTO to see if somebody in the same industry has a registered trademark on it. If so, we drop the proposed name and go on to the next. Seems elementary to me. We also try to get the .com domain if at all possible. Lastly, we do a google search to see if the name candidate is diluted or already in use as a claimed (but not registered) trademark. Sometimes we find that the name has negative connotations. Anyway, why doesn't MS hire people who do these elementary steps for them? Perhaps they felt that "vista" was too diluted to be a trademark on its own, and/or that using the trademark "Microsoft Vista" is sufficiently distinct from any other use of "vista", but these arguments seem lazy and weak to me. Other than that, it's a pretty good name.
    • Maybe because Microsoft doesn't care?
    • I see your point, and for the rest of the world, I think it applies. But Microsoft doesn't really have a solid track record of doing things the way other entities do. Instead, they've established an undeniable reputation of doing whatever the f*ck they want, no matter what anybody thinks about it. If anybody has a problem with 'em, Microsoft will happily take it to court and drag it out until you can't afford to fight it, or they'll just buy you out up front (everyone has their price, and Microsoft is su

  • MS Team named it? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Altima(BoB) (602987) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:46PM (#13147664)
    Somehow I doubt that the "MS Team" (by this I'm assuming mainly software engineers, etc) would be entrusted with the name for a flagship product. Codename perhaps, but I'll bet that a name as meaningless-yet-initially-resistant-to-punnery (just look at how Apple treated the Longhorn code name) like Vista would be coined by an amalgam of dozens of vacuous marketing executives.

    Though really I'm just surprised they didnt do a google search of the name to see if there's any similar companies or products out there called Vista...

  • I don't blame him (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Linus Torvaalds (876626) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:47PM (#13147671)

    Right now, the name can be changed without Microsoft caring too much. If it gets to release time, there is no way in hell Microsoft will change the name. They'll just throw lawyers at him until he gives in. If it doesn't work in the USA, they'll harass him in other countries.

    Right now, he's got a clear advantage. If he makes every move to completely stop their use of the mark 'Vista' (as opposed to licensing it to them or something), then they'll probably change the name sharpish. But if he shows any sign of weakness, they'll just steamroller him into submission.

  • Years (Score:3, Funny)

    by paul248 (536459) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:48PM (#13147675) Homepage
    Why don't they just go back to naming it after the release year, and avoid all the legal problems?

    After all, Windows 2017 has a nice ring to it...

  • Naming tradition (Score:5, Funny)

    by EnsilZah (575600) <EnsilZah @ G m a i l.com> on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:49PM (#13147684) Homepage
    I say Microsoft should continue with the emoticon tradition started with XP and go for like =( or 8| or something...

  • Synonyms for "Vista" (Score:5, Funny)

    by Joey Patterson (547891) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:51PM (#13147696)
    If MS does end up having to change Windows Vista's name, they can choose from a list of synonyms for "Vista" [reference.com] so they'd have names like:
    • Windows Aspect
    • Windows Horizon
    • Windows Panorama
    • Windows Landscape
    ...and my personal favorite:
    • Windows Outlook

  • They used MSN Search to look for it... (Score:5, Funny)

    by zaydana (729943) on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:55PM (#13147725)
    Why all the people saying microsoft should have googled for the name first? Obviosuly, microsoft would have used the msn search. Perhaps that explains why they didn't realize that the name is already taken.

  • i wanna know (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Naikrovek (667) <jjohnson@@@psg...com> on Saturday July 23 2005, @11:58PM (#13147739) Homepage
    what http://vistawindows.com/ [vistawindows.com] is gonna do.

  • Just what is beyond Windows? (Score:3, Funny)

    by Erris (531066) on Sunday July 24 2005, @12:17AM (#13147829) Homepage Journal
    The Landfill, where malware crippled Microsoft Computers end up. Call it Microsoft Landfill.

  • From JoelOnSoftware (Score:5, Interesting)

    by noblethrasher (546363) on Sunday July 24 2005, @12:30AM (#13147896)
    For those of you who keep up with Joel Spolsky, here's what he had to say about a very similar matter
    Well, there are a couple of dozen products named Copilot, many with registered trademarks, so our trademark lawyer advised us to use Fog Creek Copilot which would eliminate any possibility of confusion with those other Copilot brand products. The point of trademark laws is that what you're not allowed to do is create any confusion or potential confusion as to the origin of your product, and sticking "Fog Creek" in front guarantees that, but we have to be religious about always using the full name. I didn't really mind, having started my career working on products like Microsoft Excel, Microsoft Visual Basic for Applications for Microsoft Excel, etc. etc. After a few weeks on the Microsoft Excel team if you ever saw the word "Excel" without a "Microsoft" in front of it, it looked nekkid.

  • Connections with the SCO group (Score:5, Interesting)

    by blang (450736) on Sunday July 24 2005, @12:49AM (#13147960)
    Wall was one of the early inverstors in the Caldera/SCO scam.

    The company also owns some dubious energy company (most likely a tax-writeoff stunt).

    MS knew must have known about Vista, and this might poosibly be a somewhat indirect way of funelling money to further finance the SCO litigation machine.

    If you put on your tinfoil hat, this name is not an accident, but a way to finance SCO without alerting the antitrust watch dogs.

  • _windows_ (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Nikademus (631739) * <renaud.llorien@org> on Sunday July 24 2005, @12:58AM (#13147987) Homepage
    How did someone let them register _windows_ then. Afetr all, it's a common word.

    Word History: The source of our word window is a vivid metaphor. Window comes to us from the Scandinavian invaders and settlers of England in the early Middle Ages. Although we have no record of the exact word they gave us, it was related to Old Norse vindauga, "window," a compound made up of vindr, "wind," and auga, "eye," reflecting the fact that at one time windows contained no glass. The metaphor "wind eye" is of a type beloved by Norse and Old English poets and is called a kenning; other examples include oar-steed for "ship" and whale-road for "sea." Recently we have restored to the 800-year-old word window a touch of its poetic heritage, using it figuratively in such phrases as launch window, weather window, and window of opportunity or vulnerability.

  • Great Publicity for Vista.Com (Score:5, Interesting)

    by DavidD_CA (750156) on Sunday July 24 2005, @01:27AM (#13148063) Homepage
    While the threat of a lawsuit from MS is certainly enough to keep one up at night (and personally I don't think they'd try to sue Vista since they held their name first)... this is great publicity for vista.com.

    No one heard of them, and now millions of people might accidentially come across their website or read about them in regards to this potential lawsuit.

    Besides, they don't appear to be a software company -- from the looks of their website, they do website hosting and design, ecommerce.

      • Re:Remember Lindows? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Linus Torvaalds (876626) on Sunday July 24 2005, @03:30AM (#13148391)

        it's also a no-brainer that it's asking for a trademark infringement suit

        I wouldn't have said so - Microsoft shouldn't have a trademark on "windows". It's like if Microsoft trademarked the word "server" today, marketed a product called "Microsoft Server", and then, in twenty years time, sued everybody else who uses the word "server" or something that resembles it. Sounds completely bizarre, but it's essentially what Microsoft did with the word "windows".

        Also, IIRC, Microsoft didn't/couldn't trademark "windows" in some places, which is why they sued Lindows in more than one country.

    • Re:How about Microsoft Panorama? (Score:4, Funny)

      by Reverend528 (585549) on Sunday July 24 2005, @06:33AM (#13148809) Homepage
      Or just give it a fucking number already.

      Last time MS used numbers, they ended up thoroughly confusing their customers. Up until windows 3.X, everything seemed fine, but then they released windows 95, which is more than 91 better than the 3.X series. Except no one was quite sure where those 91 versions fit in.

      windows 98 was clearly 3 better than windows 95, but then they decided to put out windows 2000. Although it was better, I think that everyone agrees that it certainly isn't 1900+ better than windows 98.

      Things will be better if they stick to unconfusing names and letter combinations.

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