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RockStar Speaks 156

Posted by Zonk from the it-wasn't-us dept.
JamesO writes "The alleged sex mini-game on the GTA San Andreas game disc, unlocked using the "Hot Coffee" mod, has been the news story of the week. Several investigations are now underway to determine if the allegations are true. Having kept pretty quiet on this issue, Rockstar has issued a statement clarifying their situation. Meanwhile, in Britain, GTA San Andreas was released with a BBFC rating of 18 in the UK, which makes it illegal to sell the game to anyone under the age of 18. The BBFC has stated that, as a result it does not feel they need to take any action, even if the sex mini game claims are found to be true. Such content would not require the game to be reclassified as it would in other territories where the game had not received a strict adult only rating."
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RockStar Speaks More

RockStar Speaks

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  • GTA Ratings (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ZephyrXero ( 750822 ) <zephyrxero@[ ]oo.com ['yah' in gap]> on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:33PM (#13054514) Homepage Journal
    I'm kind of surprised that GTA 3,VC &SA didn't get AO ratings anyway. I'd think brutal violence would be worth a higher rating than a little sex scene...but some people have f*cked up moral priorities...
    • Too true...

      May it's because of the violent death-cult-thing we have going in the west at the moment.

    • Re:GTA Ratings (Score:4, Informative)

      by RexDart ( 806741 ) <jim.foster@cox . n et> on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:56PM (#13054794) Homepage Journal
      Agreed. Especially as the screenshots of the hack [gtasanandreas.net] show the participants fully clothed. Extremely juvenile, not particularly erotic, and overall pretty silly.

      I would estimate that the outcry over this is not so much a 'now *this* is too adult' response; it's more a 'see *what else* this depraved game can do' response. In other words, new ammunition for an exsiting battle.

      However, to drag this silly mod into the public eye weakens any argument against GTA. The issue at hand is the glorification of violent crime for amusement sake, and this is where the dialogue should remain.

      It's worth noting that Americans, decendants of both Puritans and rebels/revolutionaries, have always struggled with this dichotomy of reveling in activities that are essentially immoral. GTA is simply the latest incident in this long running public debate, which has been going on at least since dime novels popularized the exploits of outlaws at the turn of the last century.

      • Re:GTA Ratings (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Phisbut ( 761268 )
        I'm kind of surprised that GTA 3,VC &SA didn't get AO ratings anyway. I'd think brutal violence would be worth a higher rating than a little sex scene...but some people have f*cked up moral priorities...

        Agreed. Especially as the screenshots of the hack show the participants fully clothed. Extremely juvenile, not particularly erotic, and overall pretty silly.

        People, people... let's not forget that this is happening in the country where the showing of Ms. Jackson's nipple for about half a second on p

        • Re:GTA Ratings (Score:2, Insightful)

          by Anonymous Coward
          no actually it upset a very small very vocal minority.

          most people didnt give a shit then, and still dont now

          so stop grouping america as all uptight about sex. when in reality it is a very small very vocal group of people. most people simply dont care.
    • I'd rather kill in Battlefield 1942 than watch people have sex in the Singles game.
      • The question is not about You (if youre over 17)...it's about if children should do this. Would you rather a kid go out and have sex or kill someone? I think the answer's pretty simple...
        • Would you rather a kid go out and have sex or kill someone? I think the answer's pretty simple...

          Damn right it is! That's why I take little Timmy to the range every weekend and why I vote against any school board members who want to teach him how to use a condom...

          <sad but true>
          • It's your responsibility to teah him both. Not the school board, not the church, not the congress, but you the parent.
            • I believe he was being sarcastic...
        • I'd rather he do neither.

    • Re:GTA Ratings (Score:3, Insightful)

      by bigman2003 ( 671309 )
      So why do you spell out words like 'brutal' and 'violence' but self-censor 'fucked'?
    • The ESRB ratings system is completely backwards... slapping, "Adults Only; severe violence and sexual themes" on a game box is the equivalent of "Hello Teenager; this game is the virtual equivalent of crack! Play it and experience all your depeest curiousities without your parents knowing!!"

      If I ran the ESRB the kids wouldn't play anything I didn't want them to play. What kind of 14 year old kid is gonna buy a GTA:SA box with the sticker, "Mom and Dad say buy this game! It makes you good at math, sch


    • I'd think brutal violence would be worth a higher rating than a little sex scene...

      Well... welcome to America.

      Remember what the MPAA says: horrific, deplorable violence is okay, as long as people don't say any naughty words!
      (from South Park, of course)

  • its funny how... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jolande ( 852630 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:35PM (#13054538)
    The most bizarre part of this whole story is how some people find sex the most objectionable part of the game.

    • Re:its funny how... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jim Hall ( 2985 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:52PM (#13054750) Homepage

      I agree. Allow me to re-post a comment I made the other day about this topic:

      I had a conversation about this topic with a guy on the bus the other day (he saw me with my GBA, asked me about gaming, then jumped right to the GTA thing.) This guy said that he was upset about "those game guys" (Rockstar) selling a game like that, with sex and stuff in it. He said he was really worried about his 12-yr-old son, who plays the game on his XBox.

      My response: people are trying to get GTA:SA moved up to a "Adult Only" (AO) rating. That means 18 and over. But it's already got a "Mature" (M) rating. So kids under 17 shouldn't be playing it anyway, and did he know that before he bought it? (Emphasis mine.) The guy got real quiet after that.

      I wonder how many parents just bought this game for their kids because it was "hot", not realizing what the game was about, or even checking the rating.

      (Disclaimer: I loved GTA3, got bored in GTA:VC, haven't gotten GTA:SA yet.)

      • Re:its funny how... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jclast ( 888957 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @01:14PM (#13054993) Homepage
        Even if parents are ignoring the rating system (which they obviously are), the name of the game is Grand Theft Auto; you know, the name of a fairly substantial crime (in the US, I don't know what other countries call stealing cars). I know I won't be buying my hypothetical 7 year old Attempted Arson: Phoenix or Solicitation: Salt Lake City. In what universe does Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas sound like a wholesome game?

      • Re:its funny how... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by kaptron ( 850747 )
        Yeah, sooner or later people are just going to accept that these games exist. Just because they're video games doesn't mean they're meant for kids. A parent saying, "but my kid owns an xbox and plays these games on it!" is just as ignorant as saying "but my kid has a tv and watches [R-rated movies] on it!" People have come to grips with the fact that R-rated movies exist (duh), and that it really isn't that difficult for their kids to see them if their parents let them get away with it.

        Of course, the dif
        • "Movies and video games are approaching very similar levels of audio/visual quality, so just because games have realistic sex and violence doesn't mean that they are the scapegoat for lazy parenting. It's still up to parents to make use of the ratings system and their OWN DISCRETION. It's still the parents that are paying for or buying most of the games themselves."

          Yep. Because I lock my kids up in the cellar until they hit 18 so as they won't be exposed to these sort of things.
          Look seriously, you CANNOT
      • Good call, man.

        And for bonus points, why is he such a shit parent? "My kid's playing this game I bought him, and I think it's turning him into a psycho, but there's nothing I can do about it." Well duh! stop him playing it then! Regardless of whether the "violent games make kids psycho" argument holds water (MHO: about as much as a really leaky sieve), a parent's responsibility is to use their judgement in what their kids should and shouldn't be doing. By 14-16 you can be letting them free, but 12 is s
      • You know what?
        They should not mark it AO or M or whatever. They should place the "No Kids" symbol. You know, the symbol they put in the corner of the screen in movies.
        A letter means nothing to them.
        • They should place the "No Kids" symbol. You know, the symbol they put in the corner of the screen in movies.

          Where are they putting ratings bugs in the corner of screens in movies? I want to know so I never to go to a cinema there! It's bad enough that they're on every channel on my TV.
          • I meant on TV.
            And it's only there for the first 30 secs and for 30 secs after commercial breaks.

            Fact is, letters don't say a lot. Seeing a clear symbol "NO KIDS" might steer it up.
            • Symbols don't necessarily communicate what you intend. There's an air freshener can in the men's room at my workplace that has a symbol which could be read either as "not for use by children" or as "keep boys and girls segregated".

              Another symbol on the same can which they probably intended to mean "don't get in your eye" could also mean "don't look at product".

              Are you sure your "no kids" symbol can't be misinterpreted as "no short people"?

              And why is this information communicated indelibly on screen inst
      • It is rather strange how parents are NOT aware of the contents of this game. A quick look at the back of the box would show you exactly what sort of game it is.

        Hell, the game's title is the name of A FELONY, what sort of game do they expect it to be?

    • Re:its funny how... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by sgant ( 178166 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:54PM (#13054768) Homepage Journal
      Welcome to America. A place where showing a nipple on TV makes the biggest uproar in years yet anything violent is basically ignored.

      I see this turning into this years "Nipple-Gate".

    • Re:its funny how... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Stigmata669 ( 517894 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @01:17PM (#13055039)
      I really don't think that's the issue here. The violence which is IMHO much much much worse than this sex mini game was previously advertised and people "knew" what they were buying their children. The scandal here arises from the fact that the irresponsible parent who bought the game for their child wasn't advised that in addition to beating up hookers their child could be exposed to slightly graphic depictions of sleeping with them too. Either way the priorities are way out of whack, but it's more a case of a 'feature' appearing without being advertised than a feature being objectionable compared to the rest of the game.

  • yea britain? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by tomstdenis ( 446163 )
    The game [without the scenes] is not appropriate for most kids below the age of 16 anyways. So kudos to them for simply sticking an 18y sticker on it.

    Now I'm cheering on the british... stupid hyperactive irresponsible american parents... stop making a fuss over nothing.

    Tom
    • Now I'm cheering on the british... stupid hyperactive irresponsible american parents... stop making a fuss over nothing.

      Huh? The point is that the game was already *illegal* for sale to minors in the UK!

      • The point is that the game was already *illegal* for sale to minors in the UK!

        Well, did you read his first statement? His point was that a mature-rated game is a mature-rated game, and that American parents should have caught on to the fact that these games may have content not suitable for minors. That's the fuss over nothing- you already bought the damn game for your kid when it was rated 17+, so what's the big deal?

        • Well, did you read his first statement?

          As it happens, his first statement is completely wrong, as even the slightest reading of the /. blurb would indicate. I declined to address that bit out of generosity.

          As for the rest of it -- if that's what passes for logic for the you two, then, good. To me it seems a bit silly to complain about "stupid hyperactive irresponsible american parents" for expressing displeasure instead of outlawing sales to minors. If GTA 4 is outlawed altogether in the US, are you going

  • Why take it out? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by alvinrod ( 889928 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:39PM (#13054593)
    Personally I think this whole uproar has done nothing but sell more copies of GTA:SA. Someone might have been thinking about it before, and now the novelty of being able to have sex in a video game might just convince them to buy it. The idea that it's rebellious and angers adults only makes kids want to play it more.

    Personally, I think the whole thing is a non-issue that's being stirred up by a few crazies who would like to see games banned. The game is rated M in America and shouldn't be sold to anyone under 17. The AO rating just bumps that up to 18. Anyone who's playing this game has more than likely seen porn on the internet, TV, or in a magazine that was more hardcore than the silly minigame you'd find in GTA:SA.

    I'd be willing to make a bet with anyone that if the next GTA game was released with an AO rating that included some sexual material like the "hot coffee" mod and an M rating lacking said content, that the AO rated version would sell more copies if distributed almost as widely as the M version.

    • the AO rated version would sell more copies if distributed almost as widely as the M version

      That is a very big if. It is suspected that a number of important retailers would not carry an AO rated game. To date it hasn't really been tested.

      Personally I think the difference between M (17+) and AO (18+) is pretty stupid.

      • Frankly, I think the "age level" stuff is nonsense anyway. It only tells me in very general terms what the content of the game might be. I'd rather have labels describing the type of dubious content in the game; one each for violence, language, and sexuality. The TV ratings have these labels in addition to the age rating, for instance, and I consider them informative.

        Instead of the age rating, I'd probably color-code the content indicators yellow or red based on the severity of the content. Bloodless

    • ...the novelty of being able to have sex in a video game...


      1987 called and wants its Larry back.

      And then 1981 called to remind us that Larry was a remake anyways.
    • Personally I think this whole uproar has done nothing but sell more copies of GTA:SA.

      No question about that. I didn't like the game for its lame, tightly structured missions, and the 90's gangsta rap ambience didn't do it for me. So I put it up for sale on eBay. Usually when I do this with games I finish, I have to offer a fair discount to just sell it.

      I used a starting price of $19.99 with a "Buy It Now" of $34.99. It was bought in less than four hours! A lot of people are trying to get their hands o

  • Product as Advertised (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jclast ( 888957 )
    Oh, no! A Mature rated game has mature themes and adult content. However my child's video game system raise him properly now? Give me a break. If parents were okay with the content of GTA:SA before this minigame was found, they're either still okay with it or they don't really care about parenting.
    • Mod parents -1: uninformed. Yes, I thought about using that pun for a while, so what.
    • Why is everyone talking about the sexual content still? The much more important issue is described in Take Two's comment: "hackers created the 'hot coffee' modification by disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's source code."

      The obvious /. question should be: So where can I download this source and does it compile with GCC?

  • God of War (Score:2, Interesting)

    by jclast ( 888957 )
    Why hasn't there been a similar outcry regarding God of War? Isn't the sex mini-game always available in that title?

    I don't get why GTA:SA gets dragged through the mud when a minigame is found, but God of War gets away with it when it's meant to be played.

    Methinks some groups have it out for the GTA series.

    • Re:God of War (Score:3, Informative)

      by ZephyrXero ( 750822 )
      It's all politicians...these people don't actually know anything about the real world. They just do what gets them the most attention, votes and money. If an actual parent sat down with GOW and GTA:SA they'd almost all say it's far more adult oriented..but the press only listens to the extremists and retards.
    • The "sex" in God of War doesn't take place on-screen; it's only implied. The GTA:SA hot coffee mod unlocks fully visible softcore porn-style sex.

      Ironically, God of War is way more violent than GTA and has boobies all over the place, but that's okay with the ESRB because you don't see anyone making love.

      • fully visible softcore porn-style sex

        I've seen steamier sex with a lot more skin on primetime television. On a show rated TV14, no less. Frankly, Custer's Revenge deserves an AO for sex more than this.

        • Everyone seems to think the mod only unlocks fully-clothed sex. It also optionally unlocks completely nude female models, which is what I was referring to with my softcore porn comment.

          If you're seeing naked breasts on primetime TV in the US, someone made a mistake. What channel are you watching? I ask purely out of, um, curiosity. Frankly, I'm shocked and appalled that there are breasts on TV that I'm not watching.

          • I was thinking of clothed sex, not nudity. Though ironically enough, the Parents Television Council (i.e. the Helen Lovejoy Social Club) does all the hard work for you and puts together a montage of the "worst" clips [parentstv.org] on TV. Of course, only good Christians concerned about what their children might be exposed to would ever visit that page. Although that contains clips from both broadcast and cable TV, and not just primetime, some of the clips are. In particular the sex party from CSI: Miami.
            • "WARNING: Graphic Content!!!
              Do NOT push play if you don't want to see the explicit video!!!"

              so 'explicit' that they were shown on primetime network tv? riiiiight
    • I don't get why GTA:SA gets dragged through the mud when a minigame is found, but God of War gets away with it when it's meant to be played.

      Were you in a self-imposed media exile through 1998 and 1999?
  • But... the game files have to be modified to make the damn thing visible!

    Mind you, I don't think the game should be played by kids, but a lot of this furor looks simply like hysterics, something for particular people to point at and say "Oh my God!! Look, just look at how far society is breaking down now! If you're a decent human being you'll join me in comdemning this, and vote Republican!"

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by account_deleted ( 4530225 )
      Comment removed based on user account deletion
    • except that, to the best of my knowledge, without exception every videogame law that has been proposed in America has been sponsored by an Democrat. In addition to the other poster mentioning Lieberman, Leland Yee, one of the people most up in arms about "Hot Coffee" is a democrat, as is Illinois governor Rod Blagojevich who got a law passed there, and so is Joe Baca a congressman who has introduced a videogame law at least twice.

      I'm no fan of those in charge of the Republican party, though, and this just

  • Grain of Salt (Score:3, Insightful)

    by travail_jgd ( 80602 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:47PM (#13054690)
    Reading the press release, it has a lot of doubletalk and (IMHO) never actually denies that the material was included. TFA just makes it sound like eeeeevil hackers went to a lot of trouble on their own.

    How hard would it have been to explicitly say "This wasn't in the game, and all of it is user-created material"? (Making the assumption that the sex minigame wasn't just commented out).
    • Perhaps they don't trust their own coders? Maybe the programmers denied doing this, but until Rockstar goes through the whole code independently I definitely can see them taking a cautious stand. This could have been done without the knowledge of management - there is precendence for this in video games going all the way back to Adventure on the 2600 and probably even farther. I'm pretty sure I'd be less then one hundred percent sure until I did enough checking, but at the same time if the prgrammers sai

    • Re:Grain of Salt (Score:2, Informative)

      by illuvata ( 677144 )
      But the material was included. It just wasn't accessible without the mod. I don't think RockStar ever denied this, so why should they start now?

  • I don't get it... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Otter ( 3800 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:53PM (#13054754) Journal
    Several investigations are now underway to determine if the allegations are true.

    C'mon, we're not talking about finding the Loch Ness Monster or reading the Dead Sea Scrolls! The respective claims of Rockstar and the 1337 h4x0rs are so far apart it doesn't seem like this would be a difficult question to settle objectively...

    • Well, both groups maintain that the minigame isn't accessible through unmodified GTA, so what's the problem? Suppose I created a movie where there is a blinking LED that just happens to spell out some obscenities in binary (the exact blinking pattern isn't part of the plot). That alone won't affect the ratings of that movie, will it? So why should something in GTA that you only get through a mod affect the rating of the original game?

      It makes about as much sense as changing a game's rating just because som

  • News Story of the Week? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ndansmith ( 582590 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:55PM (#13054775)
    The alleged sex mini-game on the GTA San Andreas game disc, unlocked using the "Hot Coffee" mod, has been the news story of the week.

    Maybe that is a bit of an overstatement. [bbc.co.uk]

  • Team America (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ZakuSage ( 874456 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @12:55PM (#13054786)
    So how is this little sex scene between two animated figures all that different from the sex scence between two puppets in Team America? Didn't that game get the equivilant of an "M" rating? It really does seem like idiots who don't know how to raise their kids properly have it out for GTA.

    America... fuck yeah. That county, along with any other that blames every little thing on GTA without taking the resposibility on other social issues (the widespread use of guns and how so many people have one to begin with) needs to re-think their social values.
    • I accidentally called team america a game. I meant movie. Although there may be a game based off the movie, I really don't know.
    • The widspread ownership of guns is not the problem we have in our society. Canada has about as many guns per captia as we do, and they aren't offing each other left and right because of it. There are very many responsible gun owners in the US (and Canada).

      Our problem is our "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality. It can be seen in our foreign policy and domestic policy. Instead of trying to prevent social and domestic problems, we throw money at it. If that doesn't work, we bomb it. If that doe
    • Those people, along with any other that blames every little thing on GTA without taking the resposibility on other social issues needs to re-think their social values.
      Fixed. Please don't confuse the ideals of the loudest with the ideals of the many.
    • Of course, the sex scene in Team America had to edit out some parts or it would have been an NC-17. Apparantly you can do a lot with puppets these days.

  • Why can't someone merely analyse the patch to see exactly what it contains? I mean, if it's got extra content in it despite what the author says, that should be easily detectable (such as size of the patch, the inclusion of new graphics and/or sounds). If it's nothing but a code patch with no new content, than it's definitively something unlocked from within the game. Unless of course San Andreas has OTHER areas in which the dialog spoken (and moaned) in this scene is also used. This is an honest question, as I don't have nor care to play the game.

    And frankly, even if it is in the game, Rockstar purposefully locked it away. They can't be hend responsible for someone else breaking in anymore than a gun onwer can't be held liable if someone blasted their way into a locked gunsafe. If some 14 year old kid breaks into a porn shop by smashing open a door or wall, it's the intruder's fault he was exposed to porn, not the store's.

    • They did check it, it only unlocks stuff. It really isn't rockstar's fault. It may be there, but it requires some off-the-normal hacking to get to. Raising the alarm on this would be like calling KOTOR 2 longer because of all the stuff cut out and still left on the disc.
      Also, this stuff isn't part of the main feature anyway. Extras in movies aren't rated, and I would assume it would be the same in games. This stuff isn't even extra. It's like you buy a house and find gold burried in the backyard under 7 o
    • The game DOES contain that extra content, it's part of the game that was locked off from being used. Think of it like commenting out the code that allowed the user to get in to that mode. The "Hot Coffee" patch simply unlocks it, but there is other ways to unlock the mode by altering a saved game file. In the saved game file there is a flag that if you simply change that flag it unlocks that mode in the game. It's been dubbed the "censor" flag. Changing this flag requires no changes to the game itself,
      • Yeah, see, that's what I thought. So no, it's not Rockstar's fault. They locked it up, someone found a way to "break" in. So people bitching about this are dead wrong. Maybe I'll go break into their houses and complain that I found and blame them when I find the riding crop and pony-boy outfit.
        • Oh please. They put it on the disk to be found. If they had really wanted it not to go out, they could have commented out the content during the build.. not by putting some software switch in to disable it.

          Basically, they knew this stuff would sell games. They also knew that it would cause an outrage and probably get them a more adult rating.

          So they stick it on the disk, but don't enable it. Then they wait for someone to do that for them. Best of both worlds.. sex sells, but they can claim innocence.
      • Think of it like commenting out the code that allowed the user to get in to that mode.

        Or, to be even geekier, it is exactly like Apple's disabling of the code in GS/OS that would have used the ethernet card they developed but never brought to market. Those that got prerelease versions of that card developed a patch for the OS to enable the use of their ethernet cards.

        This site carries "News for Nerds". These things shouldn't have to be explained to this audience.

  • When mods are outlawed (Score:5, Funny)

    by infonography ( 566403 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @01:15PM (#13055008) Homepage
    Then only outlaws will have mods.

  • My biggest GTA:SA fear... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @01:28PM (#13055176)
    Flying, fat, half nude CJ's with dual semi-automatics

    First off, CJ can traipse around in his underpants. Why was this included? Then there's the jetpack at Verdant Hills, the weight management system (the biggest waste of time in the game, IMO...), and then lastly, wielding dual weapons.

    There is no more brutal force than to launch a flying fat man into the middle of Los Santos and have him wipeout hundreds of innocent lives...

    • Re:My biggest GTA:SA fear... (Score:4, Funny)

      by tepp ( 131345 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @02:11PM (#13055643)
      Why was traipsing around in underpants included?

      Because it makes people like me laugh.

      That was one of the first things I did in GTA... bought the heart shaped boxers, took off all the other clothes, got an afro, then did drive-by shootings while on a bicycle.

      Because I could.

      Because it made me laugh. :)

      For the same reason, my characters in Baulder's Gate tend to run around naked... there's nothing funnier than a dwarf fighter, fighting rats, naked.

  • wanted level (Score:5, Funny)

    by phoenix42 ( 263805 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @01:37PM (#13055261)
    Looks like Rockstar has a 3-star wanted level. They should probably find a respray shop.

  • Dumb Article (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rherbert ( 565206 ) <slashdot.org@rya ... Gr.us minus poet> on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @01:59PM (#13055497) Homepage
    From TFA:
    This statement goes against what the modder responsible for "Hot Coffee" has said, claiming the sex mini-game was merely made available using the patch and no additional content was added.
    From Rockstar:
    hackers created the 'hot coffee' modification by disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's source code.
    I don't see how what Rockstar said "goes against" what the modder said. Rockstar doesn't say that the modder added content, they said he combined, recompiled, and altered the game's source, which is what you would need to do to make the game take an alternate path into the mini-game.

    • Re:Dumb Article (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Fr05t ( 69968 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @02:55PM (#13056186)
      Yeah I noticed the same thing. Basically it's a round about way of making what the modder did seem "illegal", confusing the non informed reader (the people upset about this), and giving the appearance of this being something which was added by a 3rd party.

      The sad part is this is an easier sell to the groups all up in arms about this than being up front and honest.

      1 - It's for people age 17+. I don't think too many parents with a 17 year old would be upset about the actual content unlocked by the mod.

      2 - a 3rd party made this content available, not rockstar.

      3 - THERE IS NO DAMN NUDETY IN THE GAME! Some screen shots can be found here : http://www.gtasanandreas.net/news/single.php?id=14 69 [gtasanandreas.net]

      Anyway I'm not a big fan of people running around suing everyone, but if it does in fact turn out this "mod" added content - Rockstar should take the punk to town.

      It's just too bad they aren't releasing another GTA soon, because this publicity is priceless
      • In the patch notes it talks about a suppliment that removes all of the girls clothing while drinking coffee. Perhaps that texture modifcation was made by the patch alone and is selectable somehow.

  • Why do people care? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by tepp ( 131345 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @02:06PM (#13055592)
    Why do people care over a fully clothed sex game?

    I mean, GTA:Vice City had a strip bar you could purchase, where one objective of the game was to spend 30 minutes staring at a badly animated nude dancer. Totally nude, no pixelation, from all angles. Spend 30 minutes in there, and you unlocked the maximum potential of the strip club and got the most money from it.

    I put my character in there, and walked the dog.... it wasn't worth watching. Neither is the "hot coffee" mod. Kids see more realistic flesh watching Baywatch on TV, than in a Rockstar game.
  • Coworker of mine said on the various crimes going on in the city, one is "attempted rape". Upon visiting the crime in progress, you see one character try to hump another. I haven't played the game enough to see it, and yet I see no press outrage over it.

    I mean heck, that's not even consentual, and yet it's the same thing as what everyone's crying about in a hidden part of a video game!
  • If the mod maker reveals the exact methods used in creating the mod, and they can be reproduced, there is no question as to the code being there. It doesn't matter, though. Soft-core is the stuff of "R" ratings in movies. These "people" are polygons, so it's virtual soft-core. The "M" game rating has the same age suggestion as the "R" movie rating.

    Does it make me want the game before it's re-rated? You betcha. If GTA:SA was re-rated would retailers sell it? GTA has a better chance than any other AO g

  • Who is lying? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by hchaput ( 544841 )
    Rockstar says this: "Hackers created the 'Hot Coffee' modification by disassembling and then combining, recompiling and altering the game's source code." (from Gamespot) [gamespot.com]

    The modder says this: "All the contents of this mod was already available on the original disks. Therefor the scriptcode, the models, the animations and the dialogs by the original voice-actors were all created by RockStar. The only thing I had to do to enable the mini-games was toggling a single bit in the main.scm file." (from PatrickW) [gtagames.nl]

    • Re:Who is lying? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by jericho4.0 ( 565125 )
      All content can be accesed by one flag in a save game file. So the modder is correct, and Rockstar is lying.

      IMO, if the modder had any brains, he would have played down that fact. Did he think he was going to get sued?

  • Carefully worded response (Score:5, Informative)

    by PhotoBoy ( 684898 ) on Wednesday July 13, 2005 @03:12PM (#13056395)
    Rockstar's statement seems to be very carfully worded and avoids specifically clarifying if they they originally wrote the sex game.

    I have downloaded the "Hot Coffee" mod (for research purposes only!), it does NOT patch the executable. There are 3 files in the mod: main.scm, script.img and sacensor.exe.

    By doing a binary compare of main.scm and script.img with the originals they differ by only a few bytes, therefore the content for the sex games was already included in the game, all the files do is chnage a few flags to unlock it. It is not the genius coding effort of the century that Rockstar tries to imply by talking about disassembling and modifying the code.

    As for sacensor.exe it is only needed if you don't want the whole game unlocked at the start (which the other files do). When sacensor.exe is used main.scm and script.img are not needed. Sacensor.exe has to be executed when San Andreas is running so it can make an in-memory alteration so it does not alter the code in any way either.

    Rockstar's statement tries to give the impression that the sex mini-game was "created" by the hackers, and they talk about disassembling and modifying the code, but the mod does not even change the code just script files and art assets.

    This seems similar to the dubious stance Tecmo took when they sued their fans at NinjaHacker.net for creating new costumes for Dead or Alive characters. In that situation Tecmo claimed the people at NinjaHacker had altered their source code when in fact all they had changed were the art assets.
  • That's a really poor reaction on their part. It's just passing the blame along.

    Not knowing who to believe on this one, but I thought they had originally said that they were going to make the game more accessible to modders than previous installations. Claiming that the modder broke the EULA in doing so is kinda wacked to me.

    I guess the only way to prove this is to have the patch source code opened up for public review or something. This is turning into a "i said, they said" issue.
  • "We left this mini-game code in thinking it would be a laugh when someone unlocked it, but now it's caused such a scandal we are shitting ourselves and are blustering about reverse-engineering and license breaking"

    Rockstar have been very open in the past, even supportive, to people messing around with their code (see the numerous Vice City mods, such as Multi-theft Auto). Hope this doesn't spoil it for everyone.

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