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Interview with the Creator of BitTorrent
Posted by
timothy
on Mon May 09, 2005 09:20 PM
from the what-you-say dept.
from the what-you-say dept.
brokencomputer writes "There is an interesting interview with Bram Cohen, the creator of BitTorrent, on my site, WrongPlanet.net. Because there is already a plethora of information about BitTorrent, this interview takes a different approach and focuses entirely on Cohen's Asperger's Syndrome. In addition to being interesting to anyone interested in BitTorrent, Cohen's story is extremely inspirational to those of us who do have Asperger's, and will probably be so even to those without Asperger's Syndrome."
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Question... (Score:3, Funny)
(rest available from the torrent)
Hooray! (Score:5, Funny)
WP: How was life at school?
BC: I hated school, and dropped out of college. I got picked on a lot in school, and had a lot of trouble making friends.
Rejoice Slashdotters, we still have hope!
Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Funny)
No, this man actually got laid.
Parent
Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Funny)
Oh. False alarm then.
Parent
Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Funny)
And the rest of us use his app to download porn with. It's the sort of situation for which the word "tragicomic" was coined.
Parent
Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Hooray! (Score:5, Funny)
Isaiah is WAY ahead of you:
Thy men shall fall by the sword, and thy mighty in the war. And her gates shall lament and mourn; and she being desolate shall sit upon the ground. And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach [childlessness].
As always, your vision, compared to God's, is pitiful and short-sighted.
Parent
PLEASE NOTE, (Score:4, Funny)
Re:PLEASE NOTE, (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
A great book (Score:5, Interesting)
It's called "The curious incident of the dog in the night time" and I recommend it to anyone who would like to learn a little more about Asperger's, or, just feels like an entertaining and moving read.
Re:A great book (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:A great book (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:A great book (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:A great book (Score:4, Informative)
Nonetheless, the book is a really refreshing and novel read that I've recommended to many friends of all ages.
Parent
Re:A great book (Score:4, Interesting)
I may not have had friends up to high school, but there were people I could get along with there. My condition was finally diagnosed in high school, giving social workers a decent therapy angle. And I turned out OK. I've learned to recognize body language and social nuance. I'm not perfect at it, but most of it is second-nature by now.
At Grand Rapids Community College [grcc.edu], where I work and study, I've made dozens of friends. My teachers like me, my boss likes me, my coworkers like me, most of my classmates like me, and I'm Vice President of the Computer Club.
Together with a friend, I organized an end-of-semester bowling party that took place this past Friday. All my coworkers and their friends and family were invited. We had 15 people show up, including people who would refuse to bowl under any circumstances. (One way I got people to show up was by promising them they couldn't do any worse on the lanes than I did. And I was almost right...one person tied my score.)
For a Computer Club event, I've taken the lead in organizing a LAN Party [brew-masters.com] to take place July 14. I'm going to meet with one of managers in IT in order to address security concerns and see about using campus machines for people who don't want to bring their own. (Slashdotters welcome...there will be non-student parking.)
And I'm hoping to transfer to Michigan Tech next fall.
In summary: I may be a geek, but I'm a popular geek. With a lot of work and support, some people with Asperger's can be successful on the conventional route. We don't all have to drop out and make our millions by coming up with the Next Big Thing.
Parent
Re:A great book (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Not to rag on him... (Score:5, Interesting)
Conversely-- (Score:5, Interesting)
I say this because I have a friend who, for the last ten years, has puzzled everyone. He has one autistic brother and one brother with mild mental disabilites. He himself is succeeding academically in a tier-two university, but he seems largely incapable of handling social situations on his own (we're not talking "nerdy and awkward" so much as "completely clueless"). He often calls to ask me why people think it's fun to make him upset. He is obsessed with politics and baseball--talks about them incessantly, even when people make it obvious that they aren't interested.
My friend grew up relatively poor and has never had a reason to see a psychotherapist--after all, compared to his brothers he's just a little this side of idiosyncratic. Certainly not suffering from a disorder of any kind (his parents always said).
But reading this article and some of the links people have given in the comments, I'm suddenly thinking maybe there's a valid explanation for his behavior that lines up perfectly with the genetic tendencies of his family.
The article may not be deep, but it made me aware, and you can bet I will discuss the possibility with my friend, who I am certain has never heard of this.
Parent
All kidding aside... (Score:5, Informative)
And on a further note, I can tell you from experience that early intervention really helps ALOT! My son's progress is such that he is almost ready to join full time with his second grade class. Two years ago he was still struggling with speech.
What about... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What about... (Score:5, Interesting)
Then they diagnosed me with Aspergers Syndrome. But when I got into high school, I realized that I was not and spent a year trying to get the medical community to reavulate me. And they did.
Rediagnosed as "Deoressive and psychotic" I had such a low opinion of myself I was on the verge of suicide. there is nothing more detrimental to a person then to tell them they are basically insane.
In the meantime I was experimenting with myself and found out I was, to put it lightly, a transexual. So now I have Gender Dysophoria to throw onto the heap, but that I can live with because I myself believe it.
Two weeks ago I went under intensive treatment and testing by proffesional to see if I truly was insane.
The consensus? Severe Depression CAUSED BY Gender Dysphoria. Nothing else. I am no longer on any medecine and am instead doing therapy sessions twice a week.
Not a major success story but for me, I've managed to pick up the pieces of my life and move on.
Parent
Re:What about... (Score:4, Interesting)
I am the one of the oldest in my family (including cousins and such). I was diagnosed with a learing disability in grade school. They put me in a special class with the dumb kids (no disrespect intended). I was a poor school without the resources to even come close to diagnosing me.
In middle school and high school they told me I had ADD and put me on Ridilin. It worked. Although looking back on it, it was probably the side effects of the drug, not the intended result really.
I'm years out of school now. But I have a younger sister that is emotionally impaired. She has gone through much more extensive study than they ever gave me. After years of generalizations one doc finally came up with Asperger's Syndrome.
About the same time several other people on my Dad's side of the family were diagnosed with simial problems. Two were even directly diagnosed with Aspergers. It's genetic, skipping most of the family members. And when it does hit, the severity can vary widely.
I am a rather mild case. My sister is quite sever. I have two 2nd cousins that are sever too. And a few more family members who obviously have some form of it.
My only wish is to educate the teachers in our school systems now. So they can regonize and adapt to children who have these problems. Let me tell you first hand that generally Aspergers makes school (and work) hell.
It's not all negative though (mostly it is). Hyperfocus is one side effect of both Aspergers and ADD (ADHD too). Hyperfocus is being interested in something so far as to ignore external stimilus . You don't feel hungry, tired, don't care about the time, or mild concequences of your actions. You are focused, almost to a fault.
An insanely quick overview for the ignorant:
Aspergers is a type of Autism. General characteristics include social problems (no/few friends), disintrest in common things (sports for instance), and extreme intrest in other things (science usually). Commonly intrests are centered around scientific rules (systems like electricity, or computers, mechanical systems). Sometimes abstract rules are the intrest, commonly relationships (Soap Operas, and talk shows). See the Wiwipedia for much more information.
Parent
Re:What about... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
learning disablitiy shmearning disability (Score:3, Funny)
Cue OSS zealots... (Score:5, Funny)
What about the amateur radio guys? (Score:5, Funny)
What about the amateur radio guys? The HAMbergers?
Parent
Hey! (Score:5, Funny)
More info (Score:5, Interesting)
Coral cache... (Score:5, Informative)
I hate posting anonymous, so No Karma Bonus instead.
Pattern recognition (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Pattern recognition (Score:3, Funny)
School != Learning (Score:4, Insightful)
Learn? Who the hell wants to learn anymore? That's an old-fashioned way to look at it. Since your acceptance into college and, ultimately, your college degree amounts to your grade, why worry about what you learn? What? Doing your best? Being productive? I don't understand, what does that have to do with getting an A? That kind of thinking is last-century...who wants to be productive when you can just slide by your whole life? I mean, no matter what you make, the government's gonna pay you when you get old. What? The government fucked up Social Security?
Quote from the BBC (Score:5, Funny)
"What most people with Asperger's Syndrome find difficult is casual chatting - they can't do small talk."
So, that includes most geeks, but not those who hang about posting on /., yes?
Wired Article (Score:3, Informative)
Wired did an article about Cohen in January.
Here's a link: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.01/bittorreCohen doesn't have Asperger's (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps, Mr Cohen should actually go out and get diagnosed by someone competent before misrepresenting a legitimate illness.
PS: What's with people's fascination of collecting disorders? "I'm a cutter! No! Bipolar! No, schizophrenic!"
For the people that actually have these fad-ish disorders, it isn't some cool gee-whizz thing, it's a nightmare.
Re:Cohen doesn't have Asperger's (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Cohen might. Who are you to say? (Score:5, Insightful)
If the diagnosis helped me make sense of my life, if it gave me tools with which I could build a better life, then yes, I was autistic.
If the diagnosis turned into an excuse for self-destructive behavior, turned into a rationale for why I should be excused from the rules of civility, if it became a license for uncivil behavior, then no, I wasn't autistic.
In the end, she told me, it wasn't up to her to decide whether I was autistic. It was up to me.
It was the best psychiatric advice I've ever received. And, y'know what? I'm not going to tell you if I'm autistic or not. I don't care if you know. I don't wear a sign and advertise myself to the world one way or another.
I know if I'm autistic or not. That's enough.
So please show some courtesy to Bram Cohen. It's very possible he's received the exact same (excellent) psychiatric advice I've received.
Parent
Re:Cohen might. Who are you to say? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
What must suck... (Score:5, Interesting)
On Fake Diseases (Score:5, Insightful)
When children behave in ways that schools or parents dislike, this behaviour is often characterised as an illness. Depending on the nuances of the behaviour concerned, a child might be deemed to have Attention Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD),
Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD) or any one of a growing range of other illnesses.
However, there is something unusual about these diseases. First of all, they are defined entirely in terms of their symptoms, not in terms of some malfunction of the body. Why is this unusual? After all, before the underlying cause was known, diseases like AIDS and SARS, too, were recognised in terms of their symptoms. But that is different. It is perfectly meaningful to say: "that looks like SARS, but it might just be a bad cold, or the person might be deliberately exaggerating his symptoms". Hence also, with real diseases, it is possible to have an asymptomatic disease, like asymptomatic Hepatitis C. But it is not possible, even in principle, to have asymptomatic ADHD.
There is another unusual feature of diseases like ODD that should give us pause: they are typically treated without the patient's consent; and indeed the "treatments" are often physically identical to what would in a non-medical context be called punishments. This breach of human rights is casually justified as being "for their own good".
ADHD and its ilk really aren't diseases in the same sense as, say, Hepatitis C. They are metaphorical diseases, the names of which denote behaviours that are deemed to be morally unacceptable. In other words, the child has a certain opinion about what he ought to be doing and this opinion is different from his parents' opinion about what he ought to be doing.
Take ODD as an example, the diagnostic criteria are:
A pattern of negativistic, hostile, and defiant behavior lasting at least 6 months, during which four (or more) of the following are present:
1. often loses temper
2. often argues with adults
3. often actively defies or refuses to comply with adults' requests or rules
4. often deliberately annoys people
5. often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior
6. is often touchy or easily annoyed by others
7. is often angry and resentful
8. is often spiteful or vindictive
Note the many moral judgements that are necessary to make any diagnosis according to this definition: "actively defies", "deliberately annoys" and so on. These are not deemed to be disease symptoms when a child does them to an intending kidnapper, or to the parents' political opponents at a demonstration, for example. These states of the child's brain become diseases only when a certain condition - disapproval - exists in the brain of another person - the parent or other authority. The treatment is also metaphorical and for ODD it consists of conversations and discipline. Again, this is very different from other diseases: bacteria are not great conversationalists, one cannot debate diabetes, but apparently ODD can be disposed of by talking to it.
The entire purpose of these diseases is, in fact, to give these vile "treatments" a gloss of medical and scientific respectability. Then no attention need be paid to whether the child is right to behave defiantly toward his parents in specific cases. No effort needs to be wasted on such fripperies as rational argument or considering that the child might have a point if they repeatedly refuse to obey their parents or say that they are bored in school. How very convenient for the force-users.
There is one last oddity to note. Professor Michael Fitzgerald of Dublin University has recently said that geniuses such as Socrates, Charles Darwin, and Andy Warhol may have had a mental disease called Asperger's syndrome characterised by not wanting to talk to people and having "restricted" interests with "abnormal" intensity. Now, suppose that having Asperger's syndrome for a while wo
Re:On Fake Diseases (Score:5, Informative)
There is another unusual feature of diseases like ODD that should give us pause: they are typically treated without the patient's consent; and indeed the "treatments" are often physically identical to what would in a non-medical context be called punishments. This breach of human rights is casually justified as being "for their own good".
Well, aside from describing almost every psychological disorder unrelated to a freaked out pituitary or something, there is an aspect of ADD/ADHD/ODD that you don't touch on: while many of the behavioral descriptions seem like ordinary teen angst-y kind on behaviors/traits, there is an *extreme* irrationality to them, and maddening constancy.
I was one of the parents who got angry at pre-schools who couldn't "handle" my stepson. "The world is full of Tom Sawyers! We need to find a way for them to express some wild creativity."
But as time went on, things went wrong. He would fly off the handle for no apparent reason (as a four year old). He still wakes up at 5:30 - 6 every morning absolutely bouncing off the walls. He can't grasp instruction (sans medicine) without constant repetition, and even then can't follow through well. He seems (note "seems") to think causing pain to the vulnerable (small animals/insects/etc) is funny in some way. He can show the greatest sympathy, however. He lies about meaningless things. He has very little external awareness. He exhibits loud repetitive patterns. He sneaks food he has permission to eat and hoardes snacks he doesn't. He has absolutely no tolerance for change or disappointment.
He is now almost ten. Many if not most of these behaviors could be seen as pretty normal. However, the above behaviors - all of them - appear multiple times during a single day. It's exhausting, even with him on medication. He doesn't seem to learn from trial and error, or instruction. He seems to grow out of tics and behaviors.
I'm one of the most laid back people you'll ever meet, but even I will tend to get snippy when I have to negotiate almost every aspect of his day after schools from walking in the door to going to bed. There is rarely an "OK dad" that comes easily from my three year-old. Even on items I give him permission for. He'll up the ante. Then - at age 10 - call me an asshole under his breath for not letting him have a third fruit roll up or whatever the hell it is that he is focusing on at that particular time.
I love him to death. He can be the sweetest boy, but also the cruelest. He can be the most easy-going, but also the pickiest. There is usually no middle ground.
I've raised him since he was a year and a half old (also raised his brother who was five and is now almost 13 and living with his bio. dad). Both boys have similar issues. The older one chose to live with his dad when he turned 12, but was consistently cruel to his younger brother when he lived with me and his mother, and had similar inward-focused behavior.
The issues are very complex. I wish this was a world that had a place for everyone. My stepsons would undoubtedly hurt themselves or others, however, in an unmedicated state.
Read beyond the mere symptoms, and look at the lives of the people involved. Usually, they are deeply unhappy themselves, and not due to factors outside themselves, but to an internal inability to interact with the world in a way that others require (not merely "want" e.g. polite, non-violent, control mood swings, respect property, etc).
Parent
slashdotted (Score:5, Informative)
http://mirrordot.org/stories/94287bd20a1426c0b8bb
one of my co-workers (Score:5, Funny)
Re:one of my co-workers (Score:5, Funny)
Reminds me of the time everybody in my college dorm found a turd in the toilet that looked like it had to kill the guy who birthed it. It was spherical, green and literally the size of a grape fruit. Obviously, it wouldn't flush. So it sort of became like the dorm pet. Everybody thought it was really funny except the gay vegetarian on the hall, who was conspicuous in his lack of humor about it.
Parent
Wow... (Score:4, Funny)
Obessions often including computers: Check
Lack of the ability to learn social skills: Check
Failure in school because we like to hate the grade system: Check
Mostly in males: Check
So where are my nerd curing pills?
Clarification on Aspergers (Score:5, Informative)
Anyway, I'd like to respond to some of the comments here.
First, I want to clarify some of the things people say about Asperger's that irritate me and some of the Aspergers community. One thing that's irritating is when people say that there's an 'epidemic' of autism -- as if we're all some horrible thing that should never come into existance. Some of history's most brilliant minds have supposedly had Asperger's (see 'Diagnosing Jefferson', etc). People with Asperger's can often live perfectly normal lives. There even was some controversy at one point over the word "disorder" on WrongPlanet a while back, but I don't take it that far.
Another point is that autism is a spectrum disorder. Sometimes people with it have it milder or worse than others diagnosed. And also that it's an incredibly diverse bunch of people. It's hard to make generalizations. I like to think that most people with Asperger's have very redeeming qualities -- but the fact of the matter is that some aspies are normal intelligence. Some are brilliant, and some are, what others categorize as being "assholes".
One person here made a comment about people using Asperger's as some kind of excuse for something, like sometimes people claim dyslexia if they can't read well. I don't think that's the case for many people with AS, and I take some offense to that, but the poster brings up an interesting point. The reality is you shouldn't have to have an excuse to be who you are. But it certainly feels better to have one, doesn't it?
It so happens that people like myself and many others who have Asperger's have the particular general set of symptoms required for diagnosis. And even then, many of us a hard time gaining acceptance in the world, and finding people who are tolerant. It's hard enough with a diagnosis. And even if you have to explain it to someone (which I try to avoid doing myself, unless it's particularly relevant), their reaction is they either become more distant because they don't know how to deal with you, or they have precisely that reaction.
I guess the point I'm making here is that, especially in high schools, people are prejudiced and biased towards Aspies and others -- regardless of their official diagnosis (which they don't know) or any of that arbitrary stuff. The old slashdot article "Voices from the Hellmouth [slashdot.org] sums this up very well.
But don't get me wrong. I think that people who have Asperger's (and similar people in general) do have some obligation to try to overcome their problems. It's not good to chalk it up to autism and be a dick to everyone. But, again, a large part of it is how willing society is to accept people who aren't even necessarily rude or anything, but are just plain different. There's a certain amount of work that people with AS need to take, and a certain amount of work that society needs to take.
If anybody wants to talk to me about these issues, I'd be happy to do so and point you to some good resources and information.
Re:Clarification on Aspergers (Score:5, Insightful)
Take any 6 symptoms, say you need 3 to have the disease, and a certain percentage of the populace will have it. Throw in a few famous dead people who "could have had the disease" (except no one even got to examine them, just idle speculation based on other often dead people's recollections) and you've got a nice, fuzzy, ill-defined disease. What I'm getting at is that this disease definition sounds so ellusive (widely varying symptoms, many of which are relatively common), that it doesn't seem to be anything more than a series of symptoms. Heart disease there's blockage. Hepatitis there's an actual virus. Hell, even depression you can measure lowered neuro-transmitters, treat it sucessfully with drugs, etc. But what use is this "diagnosis" of Aspergers Syndrome other than making people feel better because you've assigned it a name?
There's so many of these elusive "syndromes and disorders" these days that it calls into question much of medical science. Gulf War Syndrome, Multiple Chemical Sensitivity, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, which of these are actually real? Does every behaviour that's a bit out of the ordinary have to have a syndrome or disorder associated with it. Maybe I have Argumentative Skeptic Disorder.
Symptoms include
1. inability to accept well cherished beliefs as fact.
2. arguing against unproven beliefs whenever they're brought up as fact.
3. Use of sarcasm.
4. Not accepting the opinions of learned experts.
I'm really trying not to be a dick, but how is this diagnosis more than just a bunch of vague symptoms?
Parent
Asperger's (Score:4, Interesting)
Anyway, I got to thinking, is the majority of cases of this so called "Asperger's Syndrome" really a "disease", or simply a consequence of being an introvert? Practice makes perfect, and if you like being by yourself and don't enjoy talking to people, then of course you are not going to be very good in social situations. That explains problems making friends and problems with social situations.
As such, what is there to do by yourself besides partake in intellectual pursuits? School is the devil for those who truly love to learn. "Here's a piece of paper, now regurgitate all of the pointless information you have learned this year with a reasonable percentage of accuracy and guess what, you go to the next level. Yay!"
I'm not saying that Asperger's Syndrome does not exist, but I think it's over diagnosed just like most other conditions out there that gives drug companies an excuse to sell their wares. Only in the most extreme cases where someone cannot function should treatment be required. Other than that, it does not to be "cured". IMHO, mild "cases" are little more than a personality trait.
Read Bram's interview. Looks to me like he was able to figure out how to read people in social situations and wishes he could go back in time and smack his previous self around a little. I think he got over his problem (look, he's got a kid to prove it!) the same way I did...By being in situations that require social interaction. Being a consultant, this happens a lot. When I first started off as a tech monkey visiting customers on site or deal with them directly, I got reports from my boss that they thought I was a pretty weird dude. Eventually I learned that the customer does not want to hear how many transistors a Pentium has when they want Windows working again. Anyway, I think I'm able to handle people better today, and if my customers still think I'm weird, at least they aren't telling anyone about it.
Re:How does it feel to know (Score:3, Funny)
After all, you got paid to do work of little or no value. Consider yourself lucky, people who want to create things of value have been having trouble finding work going on 5 years now.
Re:Oh, fuck (Score:4, Interesting)
The kid was smart, but not super smart. He'd try so hard but would end up jumbling everything he learned. Confusing one fact with another. His problem was he'd believe anything anyone said to him. He definitely had preoccupations. Spaghetti was the main course every dinner. Despite his anability to function around many people, we liked him the same. Always had some great new fact for us.
It's not a guarantee that they'll have a higher IQ. It's not an east thing to deal with. It could reach the point of self confusion. It's not fun when you work on a weather map, draw everything in. It's full of high end stuff, but it's all wrong, or doesn't make sense. I feel sorry because it may not have any possitive sides for some.
Parent