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Mozilla The Internet

Gecko-based K-Meleon 0.9 browser Released 345

Posted by Hemos from the keep-the-pressure-on dept.
Fylfot writes "After a long time in development, version 0.9 of the Gecko-based K-Meleon web browser for Windows has been released. K-Meleon is the geekier, more configurable, lighter-weight (XULless), speedier twin of Firefox. When 1.0 comes out, Microsoft may have another reason to worry about Internet Explorer marketshare. Also reported on Chip Online and MozillaZine."
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Gecko-based K-Meleon 0.9 browser Released More

Gecko-based K-Meleon 0.9 browser Released

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  • Geekier? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:21PM (#11456278)
    I hardly consider something that tries to look like IE and that is Windows only to be geekier.

  • Wait a second... (Score:5, Funny)

    by BlueCodeWarrior ( 638065 ) <steevk@gmail.com> on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:22PM (#11456292) Homepage
    ...K-Meleon is more geeky than Firefox?


    Oh shit, my Internet penis is shortening by the second....must......download....

    • I predict... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by bonch ( 38532 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @01:26PM (#11457222)
      I predict that, because everyone here has grown so attached to Firefox, everyone will attack the submitters' "geekier" claim and mindlessly defend Firefox without even bothering to try K-Meleon, which really is faster and more configurable. Instead of actually discussing K-Meleon, the discussion will be about defending Firefox, because, for some reason, geeks really hate change or when the things they're used to get criticized or bested. Note that not all of you are like this--but a large majority.

      It's totally pointless for Firefox to re-implement its own widgets when I have a GUI that already provides those to apps for a reason! I switched to Opera long ago because it takes up half the memory and works at twice the speed. Cross-platform compatibility, you say? Opera happily exists on multiple platforms while still using native widgets. For crying out loud, Firefox even has its own generic string class! Unless the Mozilla/Firefox developers are intent on constructing their own OS, they should stick to just being a native browser on whichever platform of choice. Otherewise, Mozilla/Firefox will continue to be slower than they should be and will continue to take up ungodly huge amounts of RAM when they shouldn't. And most people will continue to defend it just because they don't like Microsoft and have adopted Firefox as their little badge of rebellion. Sheesh.

      • Re:I predict... (Score:2, Insightful)

        by T-Ranger ( 10520 )
        I think you are missing the point about using its own widget set. Time for some buzword bingo here, but the network is the computer, and the browser is the way to access that. Why do you think Microsoft cares about IE? Because it subverted Netscape, and Netscape was well on its way to becoming a good platform for delivering apps, thus rendering Windows far less valuable. A web browser is far more then a tool for browsing the web.

        Firefox was relativly easy to develop, because of all of what you think is was
    • Firefox only runs on W98 [mozilla.org] and above. K-Meleon can run on W95 [kmeleon.org]. What could be geekier than updating software on a W95 box?

  • marketshare worry? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    since they make a fortune on it now?

  • Too bad (Score:3, Funny)

    by datadriven ( 699893 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:23PM (#11456313) Homepage
    I'll never get to try it because I use slackware.

  • Geekier? (Score:5, Funny)

    by raider_red ( 156642 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:25PM (#11456346) Journal
    If this was geekier, don't you think the guys behind it would have a tougher web server?

  • I don't think so (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Takyn-U-RUN ( 803154 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:25PM (#11456351)

    K-Meleon is the geekier, more configurable... Microsoft may have another reason to worry about Internet Explorer marketshare.

    If K-Meleon is more geeky than Firefox, than I don't think IE will be worrying any time soon.

    • Have you even tried K-Meleon? If you had you'd notice it is in fact geekier than Firefox. Firefox is just easier to setup and configure than K-Meleon. With Firefox more things a user would want to change are fairly easy to access through a GUI. In fact Firefox is about on par with IE when it comes to setting options. With K-meleon many times your manually editing a text file to achieve basic functions. That's not a flaw, that's the way they want it and more power to them.

      Firefox isn't a geeky app. Automati

  • It's MS only :( (Score:3, Insightful)

    by photon317 ( 208409 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:25PM (#11456353)

    How can that possibly be geekier than multiplatform Firefox?
    • Geek irony, clearly. Like "The Vagina Monologues" with software.

  • Geekier? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Savant ( 85811 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:26PM (#11456358)
    What percentage of the Internet Explorer audience run it because Firefox isn't geeky enough, and will be tempted by a "geekier, more configurable" browser?

    I don't buy the threat to IE market share. I'm sure it's a great browser, and I'm geeky enough to take an interest in it, but if I were representative of 99% of the population, Linux would be massive on the desktop.
    • "Linux would be massive on the desktop."

      Have you taken a look at top lately? hi M while it is running and you'll see Linux is massive on the desktop.

    • ...but if I were representative of 99% of the population, Linux would be massive on the desktop.

      You've put your finger on the number one blind spot in the desktop wars. Most geeks just can't seem to grasp that they are not typical computer users. This has always been a source of conflict between the two main computer user communities: people who live and breathe computing, and the great mass of people who see computers as nothing but tools. It's always been a bad thing, but it's paticularly bad when geeks

      • Last I checked people ARE switching to firefox in droves. EVERYTHING starts out by being used by a more tech oriented crowd and then filters out to the ignorant masses.

        In the case of firefox, it's already infiltrated the ignorant masses who believe they are part of the tech crowd (Microsoft "Tech"s, MCSE's, some college students, etc). Once something has that level of penetration it's general acceptance is a given.

        I'll give you a clue, with some exceptions, the ignorant masses stay ignorant and choose not

        • Last I checked people ARE switching to firefox in droves.

          Where did you check? Firefox usage is still something like 3%. Reports vary, but I've never seen anybody claim much more than that.

          I'd be encouraged if there were even a tiny trend, like a percentage point every couple of months. But I don't see it.

          I'm not sure how to respond to the rest of your post, which kind of contradicts itself. All I can say is that your patronizing attitude ("ignorant masses"?) is not helpful.

          • You need to look at how much Firefox usage has grown since the first of the recent recommendations by US Cert to switch browsers compared to the last several years. And last I checked 3% of the browser market IS droves by any standard, it's also the lowest number I've seen. When your talking about a crowd the size of the browser market 1% is a HUGE variation.

            "which kind of contradicts itself."

            In what manner? Exactly what in my post actually contradicts myself.

            "your patronizing attitude ("ignorant masses"

  • If its *that* good... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by E IS mC(Square) ( 721736 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:27PM (#11456378) Journal
    then, i guess it would be Firefox which may lose market-share. after all, both of them (K-melon and FF) appleal more to the techie ppl than those rest 90% (i.e. IE users).

    So, chances are more that a FF user may convert to K-melon than an IE user!

    or not?

    • Re:If its *that* good... (Score:4, Informative)

      by uimedic ( 615858 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @01:56PM (#11457636)
      I really agree. I use Firefox preferentially, and this Slashdot story made me aware of K-Meleon. Given how much I like Firefox, I was excited to try it.

      I downloaded the newest version and installed it. It installs cleanly, a feature I appreciate greatly (no registry entries or system files to be orphaned). It loads very fast. I manually brought in my bookmarks from Firefox and started browsing.

      So far, it loads fast and then goes about as fast as Firefox. K-Meleon uses a scheme that creates "layers" instead of tabs which I personally find much less intuitive. One features I use most in Firefox is the "Open in Tabs" selection from the bookmarks menu.

      Instead of an "Open in Tabs" option within bookmarks, K-Meleon has you create "groups" of "layers" which you then label. To create a group, you have to open individual layers for each page and then point each layer at a page I wanted in the group. You can then save them with a name like "news." You can then just type "news" in the address bar and hit Shift+Enter to bring up the group in different layers. It is slick and fast once the group is created. Of course, don't accidentally type in "News" b/c the group names are case-sensitive.

      All in all it's interesting and fun to play with new software. Yet with my N=1 sample of me, I'd say that I found tabs and their implementation in Firefox much more intuitive than layers and groups. There was no simple method to import Firefox bookmarks from within K-Meleon, but it did import IE Favorites quite easily and has methods that supposedly work with Netscape and Opera bookmarks. Also, while the browser itself feels light and nimble, its menu structure is cluttered and not particularly intuitive.

      All of this is written with about an hour and a half of use on a 0.9 release, so my impressions must be taken with a grain of salt and improvements are sure to come. However, this brief experience certainly makes me think that an IE user would adjust more readily to Firefox than K-Meleon. Consequently, I think K-Meleon is more likely to convert Firefox users than IE users.

      But that's just my opinion.

  • Faster but... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by radixvir ( 659331 ) * on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:27PM (#11456384) Homepage

    Well it seems much faster than firefox, but there's a point at which an application becomes 'too customizable'. You have to edit a text file just to change the toolbar buttons? And there doesnt seem to be any extensions right now, you might want to wait. Personally I would like to see a native-rendered firefox.

  • Mind warp (Score:5, Funny)

    by Hoplite3 ( 671379 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:28PM (#11456398)
    It starts with a "K", but it's not for KDE. It's windows only. This violates an essential rule of software. If it's called "kfoo", it's for kde, "gfoo" -- gnome, "xfoo" -- graphical cousin to pre-existing "foo" cli application, "yfoo" -- I don't know. Why foo?
  • A new Open Source platform... doesn't the community stretch out its efforts a bit?

    Imagine these developers working instead on bringing to life open-source products that are really lacking. Like a good Exchange substitute.

  • waste of time (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Turn-X Alphonse ( 789240 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:30PM (#11456425) Journal
    Why don't they just help support firefox? Firefox has taken the market by storm, if it can get 20% it's a huge dent. Giving other options doesn't help this at all. 2%, 5% and 1% means nothing, but if you combine it all together it becomes 8% which in browser terms, is huge!

    Remember hitting a brick wall with a sledgehammer will knock it down, so smaller hammers can fix the holes. Hitting it with lots of little hammers chips it, but it still stands.

    • Why not support HURD? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      because on my subGHz AMD Athlon based computer with 512mb of RAM, I have regularly found Firefox to take a full second before a right click yields the context menu. XUL can slow things down something awful. I've come across those who refuse to use Firefox because XUL slows it down so much, making it downright unpleasent to use.

      Besides, try using Firefox on a Pentium 1, then try K-Meleon. Basically, Firefox is a dog on older computers, and K-Meleon isn't.

    • Simple. XUL == Slow. (Score:5, Informative)

      by brunes69 ( 86786 ) <`gro.daetsriek' `ta' `todhsals'> on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:45PM (#11456629)
      Try running Firefox or Mozilla on a Pentium 166, or even less. It is slow as molasses. This has nothing to do with Gecko (which is super fast), but the XUL GUI. It is just too slow for these older machines.

      Browsers with native toolkits, like K-Meleon or Galeon or Epiphany, fill this void. They use the excellent Mozilla rendering engine with fast, native widgets.

      • TOO RIGHT!

        This is the reason I'm stuck using Opera at work - it's the only browser that performs well. Time to DL the newest K-Meleon and give it a whirl.
      • Comment removed based on user account deletion
        • You need to realize that not all machines run all browsers the same way. On a low resources machine (slow cpu, not much RAM), IE and Opera absolutely blow away Firefox. Since I'm sure as hell NOT going to run IE, that leaves me Opera for my work machine, as Firefox is unbelievably slow on this machine. Even the moox builds don't help that much. There are also still big problems with CPU usage with Firefox on pages with badly-designed Flash (which don't have the same CPU usage problem with IE/Opera). Depend
      • Browsers with native toolkits, like K-Meleon or Galeon or Epiphany, fill this void. They use the excellent Mozilla rendering engine with fast, native widgets.
        Don't forget to add Camino to your list!
    • After all Apple provides a great choice over using Windows. Or you might want to ask Apple to let Linux have the alternative desktop market.

      Let the market figure it out. The competition of different ideas is what has gotten us to this point. If people got the idea that they shouldn't even try there would never have been a Firefox or Mozilla.

      I think you over estimate the size of your hammer.
    • http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group _id=14285

      Version 0.5 is dated 2001-09-30 16:36. IIRC I used K-Meleon 0.3 or 0.4 way back because it integrated with Windows a lot better than Mozilla did.

  • Dissecting the features (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Staplerh ( 806722 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:30PM (#11456439) Homepage
    Found this on the release page, a list of features:

    Support for Bookmarks, Favorites and Hotlists
    Hmm, nothing too special? It'll be interesting to see what form they take - whether the Safari-esque model of bookmark management (a page) or the standard pop-up organizer.

    Layers(Tabbed Browsing)
    Wooo... Kind of a necessity in today's brower 'market'.

    Integrated search tools to search Google or configurable to use your favorite web resources
    Neat. Still nothing revolutionary.. think Firefox.

    Enhanced privacy and security features to protect against spyware and viruses - block pop-ups and web sites that try to change your home page or download spyware!
    Anything like this is great.. Maybe this will start to hint Microsoft along those lines, and we can get real security that can keep my family's computer running (despite the naive endusers).

    Unique right-click toolbar buttons allow quick access to additional features and settings
    Now, right mouse button features are good but I feel they are a bit of a crutch for poor design and don't make it as accessible to the user. I suppose I fall into teh 'Apple' camp of one button computing.. the right button/scroll is handy, but not the end all/be all... certainly not something to trump as a unique feature.

    Complete customization of all menus and toolbars
    Now this is a great thing.. I love the way I can configure MS Office to my exact specifications, and this could be the real reason to switch over to K-Meleon 0.9 IMHO.

    Configurable to use your mail and news programs
    Hmm, wonder if this will take the form of just popping up my mail client when I click on something, or a news client when I click on something, or if it is something revolutionary?

    Bit of a screed, I know, but just my two cents.
    • Integrated search tools to search Google or configurable to use your favorite web resources

      Neat. Still nothing revolutionary.. think Firefox.

      If it's configureable by non-admin users, then this is a big plus. I hate that about firefox and opera.

    • Here are some vast improvements over Firefox:

      1 autoscroll is WAAAAAYY better, it doesn't gimp if you move the mouse up while over a javascript image. Also it's fast without 'jittering' that FF does.
      2 faster. Windows are faster to create than FF, opening/closing.. can't speak for rendering speed, it's probably the same.

      And the problems:
      1 options are scattered through several disparate menus. There's the Edit->prefs, and the Tools menu with 13 sub-menus.
      2 can't use extensions? That's a biggi

  • When 1.0 comes out, Microsoft may have another reason to worry about Internet Explorer marketshare.

    True enough, but MS should worry more about the Embedded IE that comes with Platform Builder. A small FireFox, clean and stripped down could do for palm devices what FireFox is doing for desktop PCs.

  • ...three things this software doesn't have.

    The reason Firefox has a reasonable shot is because it has an actual, honest-to-God fanbase and strong marketing for an open source product.

    This just has a crappy logo and some random submitter talking it up. (Hint: You need more than that to have a successful product.)

  • Multi user ? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Sidoine ( 647373 )
    Last time I tried it, it was only single user, requiring administrator access to use it. Is it improved now?

  • What Niche? (Score:3, Informative)

    by TheFlyingGoat ( 161967 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:37PM (#11456542) Homepage Journal
    The reason Firefox is gaining popularity is because it fits a niche in the market that needed to be filled: an fast, clean alternative to IE. K-Meleon doesn't seem to fill any other niche, which means it would be a direct competitor with Firefox.

    I'm sorry, but that's a battle it's probably going to lose. As for taking market share from IE, I don't see it being anything significant. Any IE users that switch are likely to change to Firefox, since there's so many existing users and comes across as a commercial product (read: clean website, clean interface, etc). Any IE users that were unlikely to switch to Firefox are unlikely to switch to K-Meleon. The only people I see using this are the Slashdot crowd.

    I personally won't switch because Firefox has been stable enough for me, and waiting 2 seconds for it to load isn't too painful. K-Meleon can probably load it in what, 1.5 seconds? Yay.
    • AFAIRecall K-Meleon was around before Firefox (it has nothing to do with Firefox other than it also happens to use Gecko). K-Meleon, out of the box looks and acts a lot like IE. Unlike Mozilla (and presumably Firefox), which out of the box, looks and acts like no standard browser and breaks all sorts of muscle-memory.
      • If you don't use the tabbed browsing feature in Firefox, and if you use an IE theme, the only way most users know it's different is the way Bookmarks are handled. I got my grandma up and running with Firefox in 5 minutes, and she didn't need any training to switch from IE (except showing her which icon accesses the Internet now). This is a lady that took an hour to show how to compose and send an email.
        • I can't find the "IE Theme" on the update site -- can you point me to it? I'd like to set that up for my dad who's complaining about things not looking the same.
    • The guy just above you asked more or less the same question, and a response [slashdot.org] answered to say that Firefix is still too slow for older Windows machines.

  • Geekiest (Score:2, Informative)

    by barryman_5000 ( 805270 )
    If you want a really geeky browser thats faster than you should check out moox's compiled firefox. It loads pages 3-5x faster (with benchmarks to prove it.) http://www.moox.ws/tech/mozilla/

    • Re:Geekiest (Score:3, Insightful)

      by wikinerd ( 809585 )
      It is a good idea to use official builds or compile the software myself to be safe from various security threats. Unofficial builds may be faster, indeed, but I would prefer to read instructions on how I can compile Mozilla to load pages faster**, instead of installing a prebuilt program that I don't know what is changed in it and how secure it is.

      ** Note: I use Konqueror [konqueror.org] and it is orders of magnitude faster than Mozilla/Firefox/IE in loading Web pages. I definitely believe that Konqie is the perfect br
      • I agree, Konq is a *great* browser, but it's lacking a lot of features I've grown use to on FF and development on the browser seems disjointed and slow when compared to FF. If they could speed things up and give it more plugin like functionality, it would be awesome.
      • Not trolling here, I'm seriously asking--what kind of machine are you on, and what kind of pages are you looking at, where you can see "orders of magnitude" difference between browsers? I did testing a couple years ago, and yes, at the time, on huge tabled pages (not regular sites, but database "show all" pages with 1000's of TDs) NS4/Mac was slow, IE/Mac was better but still pretty slow, and Moz/Mac was fast. (In Windows, IE was fastest, and Moz was almost there.)

        But nowadays, when the slowest systems I u
        • You asked what system I use. You can find this information here [wikinerds.org].

          Konqie is faster not only in loading webpages but also in application startup time.

    • Likewise, Siimo [mozillazine.org] makes optimized athlon-xp binaries for Linux. Autofox [mozillazine.org] is much geekier...but there are lots of other builds [mozillazine.org] to choose from.

  • Or just try Moox (Score:4, Interesting)

    by badmammajamma ( 171260 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @12:44PM (#11456610)
    http://www.moox.ws/tech/mozilla/

    This guy makes processor optimized builds of Firefox. He even provides some numbers of tests he did on an Athlon system. Anyway, if you use a moox build with some other minor tweaks (like pipelining), you will definitely notice a difference.

  • Download link (Score:2, Informative)

    by jcdd ( 775968 )
    Site is /.ed...
    Download at: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/kmeleon/kmeleon 09.exe?download
  • I would really like to see a way to link the OS to another rendering/display engine or whatever.

    One of the last unpluggable holes that I have to deal with is that the Explorer shell and other apps use MSIE as the rendering engine for displaying HTML. If only there was a way to use the same hooks but to point it to Firefox's or even Mozilla's rendering code, I'd feel a lot better about using Windows in general.

    I had made this comment before and someone replied that it was possible. I'd really like to see

  • But can it use FF extensions? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by denis-The-menace ( 471988 ) on Monday January 24, 2005 @01:01PM (#11456858)
    If it can't use FireFox Extensions then it's almost Dead in the water for me.
  • First thing I noticed was the absence of CTRL-L. Without that I cannot use any broser. Even IE has it (though clunky).

    This may or may not be fixed via the obscure config files in preferences.

    Furthermore there is no method of asking if setting specific cookies is ok.

    Apart from that, it looks really good. They should polish the dialogboxes though. They look rather amateurish.
  • Well, it sure doesn't make my socks smell like firefox does, so there's a good start !

    Yum !
  • Somehow I see this as a threat to Firefox's market share, not IE's....
  • Ok, this look good, but what about a browser that can run off a CD in Windows? That way people like me don't have use the MSHTML plugin in my own app's I put on CDs.
    • K-meleon can run off a CD. That's why it's used to power both TheOpenCD 2.0 [theopencd.org] and Ubuntu Live :)
      • No it doesn't. It can INSTALL K-meleon off a CD. The INSTALL program can run off a CD, but the actual K-meleon.exe cannot. It will try to save several configuration files back to the CD.

        An EMBEDDED browser would be one that can RUN off a CD without having write configuration files. Ideally I would manually write a configuration or K-meleon would just with a set of predetermined defaults and just work.

        You can embed the MSHTML COM object in a VB or C++ program and it will run on almost any Windows as lo
  • Is there an FTP mirror of this file anywhere? Can't download EXEs over HTTP.
  • twin of Firefox

    Firefox is cross-platform - this baby is not. Perhaps K-Meleon is a cousin.

  • Sorry but anything that wants to be remotely geeky should use the right terms for the right things, this is software for lusers :)

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