Slashdot Log In
Dead? Hope You Left Someone Your Passwords
Posted by
michael
on Tue Dec 21, 2004 04:35 PM
from the return-to-sender dept.
from the return-to-sender dept.
A reader writes "Looks like if you die, Yahoo won't grant access to family members. I know I've enjoyed reading my grandfather's letters from WWII, this could be a huge loss of history if other ISP's have the same policy." MJK points out that Slashdot has explored the notion of what happens to your data after you die.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
quick! (Score:3, Funny)
Is this something you'd really want? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Is this something you'd really want? (Score:5, Insightful)
Do I really want my parents seeing emails I've sent my girlfriend [or if you find that hard to believe... some 60 year old man posing as a girl]
Knowing what I've written, I'm pretty sure I'm happy that they don't get to access such files when I die. Do you want to read erotic messages your parents send to each other?
Parent
Re:Is this something you'd really want? (Score:4, Insightful)
Are you mature enough to understand that every person has a sexual side and recognize the beauty of such relationships? If so, then stumbling upon such correspondences can pose no permanent harm to you. You may even discover something that gives you insight into the inner workings of a dearly departed. Something that they had not the strength to disclose to you in life, or perhaps that they did not think worth mentioning.
Those whom we truly love we will understand and accept for who they are/were. Learning about their private side can only help us to celebrate their life.
I do understand the concern over the effect that such matters may have over the living (affairs, partners in crime, etc...), however criminal matters should likely be resolved anyway - regardless of one's relationship status of the criminal - and personal matters such as an affair can be treated delicately at the discretion of the loved ones who are discovering them.
Parent
Re:Is this something you'd really want? (Score:5, Funny)
1) Hey hot stuff, I am gonna ride you all night long like a dog in heat
2) Yes my wonderful lover. Our 30 year relationship, cheating on my husband has been great. He doesn't even realize that my child is really yours.
While this is worst case scenario - man it would definitly be throwing salt on the wound.
Parent
Re:Is this something you'd really want? (Score:5, Interesting)
1. things happened suddenly, and suddenly everything left behind by that person was now precious. everything. imagine you're slipping over a cliff, and desperately grabbing at any sort of purchase you can find. it's sort of like that.
2. she associated that SN with her sister, which they would talk on and email often because her family was in australia. the idea of somehow seeing it in use by someone else was... not sure how to explain this, except it wouldn't be something one would want to experience. yes you can take the person off your messenger, and you can block the list... but it's just the idea.
I have to admit that I spent hours and hours late at night trying to guess her password, and some other things after yahoo said no, but will also admit i was one of many things I was doing to try to keep my mind busy and off of everything else.
I do recognize that there is a right to privacy, and that aspects of things might not be healthy... but it doesn't work that way when you're going through it. Your world is upside down, and what is rational and what isn't doesn't really matter. Yes, not having it isn't the end of the world... but seeing one more piece of that person just slip away into the ether, while possibly romantic to a 16 year old, is just a horrid thing to contemplate.
When you're living your life in your mid-20s, you don't think about throwing your yahoo password in your will for your significant other... or often a will at all. This isn't something I expect a typical slashdotter to understand, it's just how it is... I'll leave it at that, as I'm finding myself way outside of my comfort zone at the moment.
Parent
so (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:so (Score:5, Insightful)
Um, I think a little sensitivity is called for. The deceased account holder was killed in (I believe) Iraq and was probably too busy doing other things to archive his email to non-volatile storage. And even if he did have time, he was in a f* ing war zone...What in Iraq is not volatile? If you did find something, wouldn't you want to encrypt it somehow in case it was lost or stolen? What would you do with that password/key?
Maybe wills should include language defining how this type of information should be handled, but for now it seems like Yahoo should step and do the right thing.
Parent
Re:so (Score:4, Insightful)
And then there's the fact that the guy AGREED to an agreement that says that once you die, no one else has any rights to the data.
Seems to me if you're that worried about your data after you die, put a copy of the account password in a safe deposit box that your family can access via the terms of your will.
You do have a will
Parent
Re:so (Score:5, Insightful)
What's the right thing?
Parent
Re:so (Score:4, Insightful)
Yahoo has an explicit policy about what happens to accounts of the deceased -- they're destroyed after 90 days. More like assets in trust.
Yahoo *is* doing the right thing. His parents have no rights to, nor legitimate claim on the e-mail and should *not* be given access. If his mom doesn't have enough to remember him by already, that's her fault.
-Charles
Parent
Re:so (Score:5, Insightful)
User creates an account
User defines a secondary password
Secondary password is only valid for authentication after 6 months (or some other reasonable time period) of inactivity (presumably death)
Something like this would hopefully allow for accounts to be secure until a person dies while allowing access after a defined period of time. I guess the flaws could be that most ISPs don't necessarily keep accounts active after a couple months non-payment or after a "X" days of inactivity. ISP's could offer some protection like this for an addition fee if a person really wanted to leave access after they depart the world.
Parent
Re:so (Score:5, Insightful)
Not even slashdot is forever, folks.
Parent
another reason (Score:5, Funny)
Re:another reason (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Just to be safe... (Score:5, Funny)
This is slashdot, you can trust us.
Good idea! (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Good idea! (Score:5, Funny)
Prepare to open the shield, and change the combination on my luggage!
Parent
Re:Just to be safe... (Score:4, Interesting)
My home root passphrase: "Open the pod bay doors, HAL."
My home user passphrase: "Think bule count one two"
Workstation passphrase at work: "Soylent Green is people."
CC Website passphrase: "Another day older and deeper in debt"
Bank account passphrase: "Blew it all on the suit."
Home Windows computer passphrase: "MAIN SCREEN TURN ON"
Parent
Re:Just to be safe... (Score:5, Funny)
1) DON'T POST ALL YOUR PASSWORDS ON SLASHDOT.
Parent
it's a good thing the data is locked away (Score:3, Funny)
Re:it's a good thing the data is locked away (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:it's a good thing the data is locked away (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
I take it with me ... (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, if my relatives would have something to see in my email, I would let them read it.
After all the reason you use the yahoo mail is privacy.
Why should my privacy die with me ? (sounds funny, though)
I have to agree with Yahoo (Score:5, Insightful)
I think keeping the contents private is prudent.
It is up to you to archive your emails and other e-stuff in a a spot that it can be found, if indeed you really want it found after you are "gone".
pr0n (Score:5, Funny)
Or maybe I should request that I be buried with it to take to the afterlife. "Please bury me with the harddrive with the folder name 'Stuff'".
Re:pr0n (Score:3, Informative)
Re:pr0n (Score:3, Funny)
Re:pr0n (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:pr0n (Score:5, Funny)
all the passwords would be cracked in no time because they have to be easy enough to type with one hand.
HAHAH uh.
Parent
That's what your will is for (Score:5, Interesting)
Plus think of the flaming possibilities. You could instruct your surviving loved ones to flame as much as you want, knowing full well no one can touch you in return (unless you believe you are experiencing literal flaming after death, but that's just the risk flamers take).
Seriously, put it in your will if it's important enough.
Re:That's what your will is for (Score:5, Funny)
Have a nice day, sir.
Parent
This is news? (Score:4, Interesting)
I had no idea... (Score:5, Funny)
Ohhh, I better contact this poor Mr. Mbutu and see if I can help him out. I didn't realize pop had friends in Nigeria.
Look at all these money making schemes? How come I never saw any of this money?
Oh dear, I had no idea pop was into asian porn...
My my, it looks like pop was corresponding with someone about Vicodin.
Perhaps its better he died...
PGP (Score:3, Interesting)
Try the "Secret Question" (Score:3, Insightful)
A lot of times it's fairly obvious, especially for family memebers - defaults are "What is your Mother's maiden name?" "What was your first pet called?" "What street did you grow up on?"
A sibling or parent should know any of those - which is why you should always make up your own, by the way.
Privacy after death? (Score:4, Insightful)
If this family wants to keep the messages, then they should save them from their side of the chain. I think Yahoo is in the right in that they should not be made to give out password to those that do not control the account. They would have to deal with the expense of handling a lot of requests if even a single exception was acknowledged.
This is true. (Score:5, Interesting)
I've been heavily into the MMORPG scene over the last few years, and some of my closest friends are folks that I don't have any other contact with. If one of them was to get hit by a bus, I'd never know what happened. That would be odd. I suppose that from my side of the monitor it would be exactly the same as if they had suddenly quit playing the game and never contacted me again. That's an odd concept.
What happens to my data? (Score:4, Insightful)
It is not like this is just online. Many places in real life would also suddenly find me "missing", yet never actually go as far as to figure out what happened. Both on- and offline, those that are important enough to know would know. That'll do.
Kjella
Yahoo is doing the right thing (Score:5, Insightful)
Out of respect, what if there were things he never wanted them to know? What if he was gay and having an internet relationship with some man, and his parents were anti-gay? They would then be left thinking they never knew their own son, and all of this crap.
If you want people to have access to that sort of thing, leave them access. Put your passwords in a safe or something if you MUST write them down.
Yahoo and others should not be giving access to an individuals person email, dead or alive. I don't care if the family presents a death certificate or not. You should have a reasonable expectation of privacy and deceny even after death. Let your personal life die with you.
Email should be considered property (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't see why email should be considered any different. Yahoo's position really is that your email is not personal property. They "own" in the sense of controlling the property while it's on their servers. I don't think Yahoo's objection is really about privacy. They don't want your email to be considered property because they could then be sued when they accidently lose it, not to mention the administrative costs of dealing with probate transfers. If this was really about privacy, they could give make the disposition at death user controllable when the account is created.
I doubt this issue will be fully decided by the courts until some famous author dies and the only copy of their unpublished work in on some server somewhere and worth a lot money. Then the family will sue for access to the valuable property which they've rightly inherited through the will and the courts will be forced to decide whether ISPs can destroy property on somebody's death.
Re:Suggestion (Score:3, Funny)
So at least you know what password NOT to choose!
Re:Suggestion (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Hm... (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:DMS (Score:3, Funny)
Re:DMS (Score:5, Interesting)
how do you tell it that you're dead when you're, well, dead?
I wrote a little program called dead man switch years ago, for just this purpose (and to teach myself Java). I imagine this is someone else's though since I only gave mine to a few friends. Mine just required that you log in to the server once every [variable] days. If you failed to log in it would optionally send a warning e-mail and then it would mail out a predefined message to a predefined address. I planned to expand it to include setting up accounts and storing files encrypted, but never got to it. I figured all those movies where people say, "If I die my computer will automatically send the files to the police" would be more true to life if there was such an app lying around to make it easy. (cron, yes, I know)
My guess is that like my program, and like a real dead man switch, it takes a conscious effort to keep the switch from being tripped.
Parent
How do you know she died? (Score:5, Insightful)
What you did was wrong, and if it wasn't illegal, it should be.
If you didn't want it on your concience, you should've passed the call up the chain of command to someone with more integrity.
Parent
Which ISP do you work for? (Score:4, Insightful)
Oh, and if I could have your direct extension too, that would be nice.
In short, you exposed all the users of your ISP to fraud by allowing anyone who called you with a sob story and some previously compramised data account access they shouldn't have. But hey, as long as your CONSCIENCE feels good....
Parent
Re:Try the "Secret Question" (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:My sister died this past summer (Score:5, Insightful)
I am not sure I agree with this. If I really want people to have access to things I will make sure they can.
A company like Yahoo cannot simply relinquish the login info just because you would like to have access to.
It might be your desire to know everything about that person, but in essence it is their call to make sure that you have access to it. Put it in their will or find another way, but you don't have a (legal, and moral is debatable) right to see those informations.
Yes, it sucks to lose someone and it is understandable that you want to have as much as you can, but at the end of the day shouldn't you respect the way they have lived, secrets and all?
Parent