China's Superior Technologies 692
paRcat writes "Still think China is a land too far away from everything? This article compares some of China's common uses of technology to what we're accustomed to in the West. With the genius traffic lights and the cell phone coverage... I'm kinda jealous."
Statistics (Score:3, Insightful)
They are clearly putting in far more effort than any western government to modernize their country.
A government for the people, what a novel thought.
Re:Statistics (Score:5, Informative)
With a "government for the people"?
Hello? Is there anybody home?
In China you get into jail for saying what you think. People are imprisoned and tortured. Human rights violated. How much a nerd does one need to be in order to trade cellphone coverage for freedom?
(Amnesty International's report on China is worth a read: http://web.amnesty.org/report2004/chn-summary-eng
Re:Statistics (Score:4, Funny)
and we have... (Score:5, Insightful)
We even export our human rights violations.
Re:and we have... (Score:3, Informative)
Abu-gharaib was a travesty that is ending with the guilty being brought to justice...well, at least some of them. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that all the criminals have been captured. But as least the rats are scurrying for cover.
The human rights violations in China result in public acclomation and promotions.
Re:and we have... (Score:3, Insightful)
Being guilty of a crime is no excuse for inhumane acts against another person. NO ONE DESERVES ABUSE. Your argument is similar to that of husbands who batter their housewives. "Because they deserved it." or worse yet, the rhetoric of the world wars of "They are the cause of our problems.", "These are the unclean peoples within our communities".
In the eyes of every nation and people who committed attrocities on another gr
Re:Statistics (Score:4, Insightful)
I'm so glad we're free.
Re:Statistics (Score:3, Informative)
Yes oppose the Patriot act. Work to get it overturned. But do not equate it with China.
Re:Statistics (Score:3, Informative)
Lets be clear about this. This administration would like to have the power to keep United States citizens in detention, without access to counsel or judicial review. Why have they not been able to? Because the Supreme Court said they could not. So the system works right? We'll see. Bush named Thomas as one of his favorite justices. IIRC, Thomas was the only one of the justices that said, "Yes, the executive branch should have t
Re:Statistics (Score:3, Insightful)
Both of you need to try to be a little relative.
Just as you say he cannot personally know anyone who has suffered at the hands of the Patriot Act, neither can you say you personally know anyone in China who has suffered at the hands of their government.
The truth, as always, lies between both statements. No one individual's suffering is worth more or less than another's. Abuses have occured in both countries. None of the abuses are excuse-able. However, in spite of them, there are plenty of people in b
Re:Statistics (Score:3, Insightful)
A friends of mine the Chows. Mr. Chow spent 8 years in prison because he was a christian. He and his wife managed to get to out of the country after he was released. I went to school with there son. Very nice family even though their English is not great. I always told them that it did not matter since their English was much better than my Chinese. I have another friend that lived in the USSR and is jewish she has told me some interesting stories about some of what her family members went to but I
Re:Statistics (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Statistics (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Statistics (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Statistics (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course this statement might not be true in 10 years time or so due to the quick rate of economic growth in China - and of course this does not mean that the chinese are
Re:Statistics (Score:5, Interesting)
This is one of the tradeoffs between free markets and command economies. Although free markets are great from the point of view of moving quickly to a local optimum in resource utilization, their coverage and consistency are spotty. Command economies tend to pick winners too early and their implementations can be inefficient and hang around too long, but they usually achieve complete coverage and relative consistency.
The best of both worlds is when you "let a thousand flowers bloom" in the early stages, pick a winner for full implementation, and revisit the infrastructure choices on a regular basis to reopen debate. Of course, ideologues of either stripe would usually disavow this solution, as that might force them to widen their narrow models of the world - far too painful to comptemplate!
"Let a thousand flowers bloom," Historical Backgrd (Score:5, Informative)
"Let a thousand flowers bloom," was more or less a political tactic by Mao to exterminate his enemies in the Communist Party. Not sure what this has to do with economic policy and such.
lesson of Japan's stagnation (Score:3, Interesting)
It will be interesting to
Re:lesson of Japan's stagnation (Score:5, Interesting)
Though part of it is what you are talking about.
Their research isn't progressing where it needs to yet. Their country devoted itself singlemindedly to the war, then to industrial and economic growth, now they feel they are better than everyone else so they are essentially wanking.
If you go for a haircut there will be 6 haircutters, people sweep the streets in business suits. Basically their entire economy went from manufacturing to service in a generation.
Service economies are total bullshit, guess what YOU CAN DO IT YOURSELF!
The U.S. went from a manufacturing economy in the 50's to a pure greed mentality in the 80's to a purely consumer driven society in the 90's. It's amazing how changes like this can sweep a whole nation.
Unfortunatly all these trends are negative, it's just the ignorant bouncing around. The people really gettting work done just say, hey there's this thing, might be worth doing, let's do it.
Re:lesson of Japan's stagnation (Score:5, Insightful)
In USA when the economy suffers, it is mostly the poor on whom it is taken out on. They lose insurance, they lose their jobs and so on. In Japan, they stop growing but guess what, they are not really sweating it. They value different things. Americans value riches and expensive cars. The Japanese actually do get by with Toyotas. Witness how the Lexus brand ws only recently introduced in Japan after being in USA and Europe for the past 20 odd years. And it is owned wholly by a Japanese company. Because the Japanese do not have such big brand mentality, they will be buy a Toyota for the equivalent of $80,000. Americans will have none of that.
USAs GPD per Capita is inflated by the very rich. Japan has one of the smallest, if not the smallest Gini coefficients in the world. There is much more even wealth distribution than in USA. The USA is a country full of individuals, but Japan is more of a community.
In many ways Japan is far ahead of the USA. They still produce higher quality goods than USA and indeed just about every other country.
Re:A Modernizing China is a Threat (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually the same could be said of the US, a lot of our foriegn policies of late have been decidely midieval, notably the "you're with us or you're against us" black and white take on things. Not to say China's not a potential problem, but this is not sound reasoning as to why it's a problem.
Re:Government of the people? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:A government for the people? (Score:4, Insightful)
Why is that insightful?
Re:A government for the people? (Score:4, Insightful)
Come on, superior technology? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Come on, superior technology? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Come on, superior technology? (Score:3, Funny)
Oh, everyone has stoplight timers now. I think this is the programming:
if (LATE_FOR_WORK)
green() || construction();
else if (ON_TIME)
red(minutes(5));
else
red();
Re:Come on, superior technology? (Score:2, Interesting)
I have seen the latter used in nearby Seoul, as well. I guess the Chinese are exporting these technologies?;)
Re:Come on, superior technology? (Score:2)
Re:Come on, superior technology? (Score:3, Funny)
Oh yeah, they never do that now...
Re:Come on, superior technology? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parking, Transit Debit, Lights that Blink--In MN (Score:2, Informative)
We have parking status as you enter downtown, accessible also via a web page. Traffic cameras blanket the freeway system, also via web page.
In St. Paul a lot of the traffic lights have countdown timers.
They are also close to have the debit cars for our new light rail line.
Re:Parking, Transit Debit, Lights that Blink--In M (Score:4, Funny)
China will be the next big innovator (Score:3, Insightful)
The USA refuses to adopt alternative fuels and prices are rising as fuel needs go up. Watch for china to lead the way in alternative fuel development and be the sole leader in the world. They need a cheap fuel soure to reach their goals of being a (or the) superpower.
Our dependency because we are lapdogs of Saudi Arabia is going to bite us in the ass. We will be the ones buying the technology from the Chinese.
Re:China will be the next big innovator (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:China will be the next big innovator (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:China will be the next big innovator (Score:3, Interesting)
This is highly unlikely. We are far too reliant on their manufacturing capabilities to make unreasonable demands like this. This is especially true of American pressure. We are far too dependent on foreign currency holdings to prop up the value of the USD.
Far more likely are the scenarios that either companies who own patents will negotiate very nominal payments for use of their patents or that the First World will simply learn to use t
Re:China will be the next big innovator (Score:4, Informative)
I think America ignored European patents in the 18th and 19th century.
Or not (Score:2, Informative)
Right now, the US of A is the best environment in which to innovate. In fact it is our only advantage. If we manage to kill innovation, we are toast. DMCA, Patriot Act and software patents come to mind in this regard.
About Jan Wong:
Re:Or not (Score:5, Insightful)
Regarding innovation, you are 100% correct -- that is the US' prime advantage. That plus abundant natural resources which can be exported, or at least support self-sufficiency. Even regarding oil, I believe the US only gets 30% of its supply from OPEC.
Fortunately China is beholden to the US still in many regards. Its needs the US markets to sell products too; it relies upon the US currency to supply economic stability and prevent inflation in China while they go through this boom; and they need North America to provide raw materials and resources. We're a long way from the sunsetting of the American empire, but the US will be facing a new world power as a competitor (if its not already).
Re:China will be the next big innovator (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, there's only so long they'll be able to run on coal (basically til everyone starts keeling over from black lung) but that point is probably a decade or two off. Your point about the USA going backwards is entirely accurate, though, and this election confirmed that Americans are really not that concerned with the vested oil i
Re:China will be the next big innovator (Score:3, Informative)
They are going to make the shift to nookular and hydro power much more smoothly than us. This is because:
use of technology (Score:5, Insightful)
China has something western society should model after. It kills me how often I hear, "We have always done it that way, why change"
But (Score:3, Funny)
We're installing breakfast nooks and berber carpeting all on credit at 28% interest compounded daily! We have Disney trademark paint color choices at Home Repo! We're modern too!
Count down traffic lights are a really bad idea (Score:4, Interesting)
Cell Phones vs. Landlines (Score:5, Insightful)
Almost every developing nation has a higher rate of cell-phone coverage than the US (and many other "western" nations.)
The Bell System and the various state-owned monopolies built reliable, universal landline networks across these countries almost a century ago. Since the majority of the infrastructure has already been made and paid off decades ago, use of these networks today is commonplace (and very affordable.) The technology is often proven, well tested, and reliable (often regulated.) Cell phones, on the other hand, are more expensive and less reliable.
In developing nations, the landline systems are often unreliable and not much cheaper (if at all) than mobile systems. Users in these countries have every reason to invest in mobile phones. I wonder if this will continue to be the case with the deployment of VoIP systems.
population density is key (Score:2)
A lot of smaller countries tend to have population densities that are noticeably highter than in the US. The higher density makes new technologies (like wireless) easier to deploy because more people can take advantage of the service, distributing the overhead cost over a greater number of people. The following list was copied from here [about.com].
Population density of the continents:
* North America - 32 people/mi2
* South America - 73 people/mi2
* Europe - 134 people/mi2
* Asia - 203 people
Re:Cell Phones vs. Landlines (Score:3, Insightful)
Over here! (Score:2, Interesting)
Pants Hemming (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Pants Hemming (Score:2, Flamebait)
That's what happens when there is no such thing as minimum wage and the concept of work or starve is the norm.
Re:Pants Hemming (Score:2)
Re:Pants Hemming (Score:3, Interesting)
These excellent
"Beware ... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd think it's time to say: "Good Morning, Yellow Dragon"
Re:"Beware ..., to be exact (Score:3, Informative)
Advanced traffic lights? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Advanced traffic lights? (Score:2)
Re:Advanced traffic lights? (Score:4, Funny)
Simple explanation (Score:4, Funny)
Enter the Red-Red/Red-Green light. Now the light just stays red all the time, since you're going to run it anyway - but the green light tells you when it's safe to run, and the second red tells you when it's safe to stop!
Taking away the yellow makes it a simple state transition that reduces incidences of people speeding up for a light. And both directions change instantly, making it far more efficient as you never have an awkward moment when cars are not going through an intersection.
Yes sir, that is is traffic light of the future.
Superior? (Score:5, Informative)
Sure, we don't have everything on the list though. I'd love to have those intelligent stop lights for instance.
I guess the bottom line is that Canada is pretty far behind.
Re:Superior? (Score:5, Funny)
You live in Sweden and have been too busy playing with gadgets to notice hot blondes everywhere
Absolutely untrue myth about Sweden (Score:4, Interesting)
I am an American student, fluent enough in Swedish, working on a degree in Sweden. I can tell you as an insider that they are neither hot nor blonde--anymore. Those women went extinct in the Eighties. Right now, they are my professors and bosses--not my peers. A list of grievences:
100% dead-serious: At our student union building, we have an annual Bad Taste Party, where one dresses in bad taste, naturally. I could not tell--I honesty sat through a half-hour of our pre-party without noticing that was the theme.
In conclusion, if you are coming to Sweden to have good-looking lovers, only do so if you are a gay man--you'll save yourself a lot of disappointment.
Cool stuff (Score:5, Insightful)
However, some of these seem great because they didn't have to replace old technology. They mentioned how landlines were never popular, so they went from no phones straight to cell phones. The US had to piggy back the new system on the old system.
So in 20 years, will they still be cutting edge, or will they be surpassed by other countries that either are just technologically developing or have been developed for a while and are "upgrading".
Well sure, but ... (Score:2, Funny)
Great... (Score:5, Insightful)
Remember people, this is the world's biggest nation (by population), with the real potential to be the world's biggest manufacturer and the world's biggest marketplace. And, remember, that that potential is starting to be realised: China already has a import surplus of billions with most Western countries, including the US, and China is now starting to become a real consumer culture in its own right.
They may have given everyone else a head-start but then so did Japan and Germany post-WWII, and look at how powerful their economies have become.
Re:Great... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Great... (Score:4, Interesting)
They built a maglev train to Shanghai airport. Nuff said.
this isn't superior technology (Score:5, Insightful)
Still.. Re:this isn't superior technology (Score:4, Interesting)
I must admit (Score:2, Insightful)
For instance, the traffic light is new. However, there version could be viewed as an improvement. BUT, they had something to build on. I'm sure that in other countries, different and better (than what those countries currently use) traffic lights have been invented. But, there is a standard already in place - one that must be changed slowly due to it's nature.
This is not to s
Let's not forget (Score:5, Informative)
You can't drink the water from the tap
Hocking loogies in public seems to be a national pastime
Air pollution so bad that on some days it looks foggy
Diseases like malaria and dengue fever (more a 3rd world than 1st world problem)
China may have cool tech, but the basic infrastructure sucks.
It's not really that great... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:It's not really that great... (Score:4, Interesting)
Look at the big picture. Large country, large population, technical savy, individually not wealthy but as a country very wealthy, and most importantly very secretive. Not much news gets in our out that they that the gov. doesn't control. Even internet access is managed.
They could kick a little US ass without blinking an eye. They could lose an entire US population worth of soldiers and still come out smiling.
Look at the N. Korea issue. US didn't have to deal with it, just nicely asked China to speak with them. After some humming and hawing China sends over a low level Gov. official and N. Korea goes quiet. Like the freakin mofia.
Scares the crap outa me when I think about it to hard. I have to stop now.
lalala.....flowers and trees....lalala.....
could kick a little US ass without blinking an eye (Score:3, Interesting)
To end the Cold War, the US didn't duke it out with the USSR using weapons - we spent them into the ground. Even at that, with the deficits involved, we darned near spent ourselves into the ground, at the same time.
Right now China is heavily dependent on exporting the US, and it's helping to fuel their growth. I would expect that within 10-20 years their own economy and consumer base will be sufficiently developed that they won't need us, any more. I've already heard (unsubstantiated) that Chi
Re:It's not really that great... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been there, and not just to the big tourist-friendly places like Beijing, but to the interior as well. Everywhere you look you see forward progress, even in the rural areas. Many of the things the article mentions aren't just for the party elite, they're widespread. Sure, it's a centralized Communist government, bu
Great...but... (Score:2, Insightful)
Most large theatres today, whether live or movie, offer online and in person sales with displays of seat availability.
Most traffic lights in the "almost large" cities that are below the fold of Chicago, LA, and NY, have timers on the crosswalks that effectivily give you the countdowns to a red or green light.
Tailors (which doesn't exactly count as tech, unless it's 1750) are available at just about every large, expensive retailer at
It had to be said. (Score:5, Insightful)
Seriously. Don't you think there's a cost to all this? Do you really think a republic like the US could do something like this?
The fact is -- it would be easier for us to modernize Iraq than it would be to modernize the US. Authoritarian control makes everything a ton easier for the government at the expense of the people.
Pick your poison.
Re:It had to be said. (Score:3, Interesting)
Imagine a society with wonderfully advanced and ubiquitously implemented technology that makes life easy, entertaining, and enjoyable. Now imagine that there are severe restrictions on personal liberty and privacy and that the society is kept viable by extreme taxation.
Would that society be haing too much fun to decry the unfair treatment?
Waitasec, being in China... (Score:5, Informative)
The modernization of Chinese technology is less important than the quality of life of its people. In my opinion, they need to focus less on getting every single person in their country internet and more on getting every single person in their country fed and clean.
Re:Waitasec, being in China... (Score:3, Insightful)
With the exception of dirt streets you can find all that in most American cities too. Granted the sewage in the streets is mainly from homeless people just going wherever it's convenient but it's there.
You'll also find plenty of dirt roads (and gravel ro
Parking lot displays (Score:2)
Free hemming not a result of cheap labor? (Score:2, Insightful)
No. 11 (Score:3, Insightful)
How do we even live? (Score:3, Insightful)
Convenience vs Profit (Score:4, Insightful)
Supermarkets and other retail outlets are perfect examples of this. It's the classic service vs. price.
Even the stop lights in the article are an example of this. Most citizens would rather have dumb traffic lights and lower taxes than smart ones and higher taxes. Unfortunately this leads to a lifestyle that is filled with minor incoveniences.
A sad indicator of this is how surprised we are when someone gives us good service without charging us an extra fee.
Superior? Maybe compared to Canada... (Score:3, Insightful)
1. Cellphones
My cellphone works in elevators, subways, and parking garages too. The no cell phones in hospitals is a safety issue, not an issue of technology. And doctors here break the rule all the time, too. The docotor who delivered my son got a call from his wife (she was going to Taco Bell and wanted to know if he wanted anything) right in the middle of delivery.
2. Informative stop lights
As others have alrady pointed out, this is not the safest thing to do for cars. Most crosswalks where I live do the same thing, except they actually count down the number of seconds (how novel.)
3. Transit debit cards
This is a trivial (though very convenient) "innovation." It's really a product of government. When you have a centralized government that controls everything, you can standardize everything. When you have more freedoms, then different municipalities will do things differently.
4. Adult playgrounds
This is just another product of socialization, and has nothing to do with technologies.
5. Anti-theft slipcovers
A useful innovation when you have problems with crime.
6. Daily banking
My bank is open six days a week. If people demanded it be open seven, it would be open seven so that it could do more business and make more money. This has nothing to do with technology, and is simply an example of free people choosing how businesses operate via a free market vs. a government mandating how businesses operate.
7. Wireless service bells
This has little to do with technology and is much more a cultural issues. This would NOT be desirable at most upscale resteraunts in the west, where good service is expected and rewarded. Now it might be desireable at low-end resteraunts, but in the west, you get what you pay for.
8. Parking data
This is interesting. Do you really need to know how many empty spots there are? Isn't it really just a boolean, i.e. there is at least one empty spot or there are no empty spots? Any paid parking lot is going to keep track of this, and is also going to advertise so that you can find it. So I guess this is talking about free lots. Again it's a function of a free market vs. socialism.
9. Computer seating maps
When I buy tickets to a SF Giants game, I have this exact kind of technology. I don't have this for movies, but movie theaters here are not assigned seating.
10. Free hemming
Again, not technology, but cultural.
Would it be stupid of me.... (Score:4, Insightful)
But those are First World countries! They should be superior in EVERY WAY!
Nonsense. This First World/Third World delineation is extremely rough, at best.
China is a rapidly developing country. While there are factors which still relegate it status to 'third' world, they have come a long way, and will make it to first world soon.
The thing is, you don't always get optimum deployment of technology in a wealthier society, and this has little to do with the economic system (Capitalism, Communism, Socialism, Anythingism).
In a nutshell: The economic system determines who has the power to allocate wealth/resources.
Then, this decision maker decides how much of societies resources should be spent on what developments.
If 'smart' stoplights are not a high priority, even if 'dumb' ones are an annoyance, you won't get them, period. Even in Utopia.
In China, government decision makers simply implemenent whatever policy they feel is appropriate.
In the U.S., popular demand determines the allocation of wealth and resources. Don't think that I am naive enough to not realize that large companies&governments are capable of influencing this demand. Still, by deciding how much you are willing to pay for a certain service, or expressing your political preference by voting, you contribute to averaged indicators that establish this allocation.
In the U.S., people are willing to spend less of the adjusted per capita wealth on cell phones than are people living in Europe, or Japan.
As such, our cell service is crappier. Sure, there are geeks like you (slashdot reader) & me who want better service. But the Jane Doe's of the U.S. bring the average down.
The same thing probably happens with regards to Jane Doe's preferences. I might not be interested in what she wants, and as such, I bring the average allocation down with regards to her preferences.
You see clear, similar trends with regards to broadband service. Price is simply more important that quality of service/performance, and as such, as a society we allocate less towards our Broadband, and we have crappier service.
Now that you are conceptualizing resource allocation as I have described, the effects of government become clearer.
In much of the rest of the world, governments have 'kickstarted' demand by providing for an initial investments in broadband, cell service, and other 'public' goods.
You get better service, but the costs involved in the government 'kickstarting' necessairly come from somewhere else.
This government influence necessairly introduces economic inefficeny.
Not that that is always bad, mind you. I certainly accept that economic inefficency is necessary such that our resource allocation is not totally mindless/mob oriented.
But we need to consider that it is a spectrum. Somewhere between total government control of everything economic allocation, and total free market laissez faire absurditiy, is the world where I want to live.
Wow. This has been rather long winded. In sum, and in short, all I'm really trying to say is that a certain country not having, or having, various technology improvements does not mean that country is doing worse, or better, than other nations. Specific aspects of resource allocation are not a good way to summarize notions of wealth.
They are more important indicators. Not that the U.S. is doing particularly well in these other indicators. But we aren't doing so badly, and I feel that discussions of these indicators are far more important that discussions of anti-theft slip covers, or smart traffic lights.
Just my 20000000 cents.
Re:Would it be stupid of me.... (Score:3, Funny)
The Caveat (Score:3, Funny)
American's Know VERY Little About Today's China (Score:5, Interesting)
Very few Americans know much at all about China.
People THINK they do but to someone like me (i.e. a white guy who spends months at a time each year in China, is married to a Chinese woman, is well versed in China's history both recent and ancient and speaks Mandarin), listening to American folks discuss China is almost always very frustrating.
The country is not nearly as oppressive as some of you seem to think. Communism is really just a WORD over there... not an ideology... not anymore. Yes the government has it's problems and for the most part are not too well liked but daily life in China (well, for city dwelling, college educated people anyway) is little different from life here. People own pets, they don't eat them, they have cars, cell phones, high speed internet, live (and thus, not so controlled by the government) news on TV, they go shopping, walk in the park, meet friends for coffee, hit the clubs on Friday and Saturday night or go see a soccer match, whatever.
Many places in China would strike the most ardent neo-conservative as the very height of capitalism. Contrary to what one person posted you CAN talk about/criticise/make fun of the government. I have talked with so very many Chinese about their government and they are usually quite frank. No one is hiding behind their hand whispering, no one is "disappeared". Last time I was there (May-August 2004) there were even some fairly large labor protests in a nortern city. Protests that were not crushed, put down, blocked. We just don't hear about this sort of stuff in the states. Viewed objectively (my wife, a professor of communications, has done much research in the area of media coverage between China and the USA), our government's opinions regarding China, the average citizens beliefs on China and the stories we get about China from our media leave us with a general impression that is, quite simply, wrong and negatively biased.Statistically about equal to the bias you would find in the Chinese press about the USA.
Technologically, China IS rapidly pulling ahead of the U.S.A. in many areas (cell phone technology and IT in particular) and China has it's "Microsofts" waiting in the wings eyeing the world market (the Lenovo Group [hoovers.com] (formerly known as Legend Group) in particular). Bottom line is, most Americans don't know enough about China to make any sort of accurate commentary regarding it. Yes there are many problems in China and with it's government but it is much closer to life here (once again, in the cities, not the countryside) than you probably think.
Re:Existing infrastructure (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Existing infrastructure (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Existing infrastructure (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Existing infrastructure (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Existing infrastructure (Score:5, Insightful)
cuntry side is vacant? (Score:2)
[/funny]
Re:Paid for by US Traitors (Score:3, Insightful)
No. In each industry there are only a few companies. The economy is based on 40000% markups, a regular campaign of vigorous layoffs, and constant blatantly manipulative advertising.
Re:gotta admire that forced prison labor... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Wow, (Score:3, Funny)
Re:INDIA (Score:3, Interesting)
As an American I