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Net Addiction Gets Finnish Soldiers Out Of Army
Posted by
timothy
on Wed Aug 04, 2004 12:43 AM
from the high-standards dept.
from the high-standards dept.
nerdb0t writes "Reuters is reporting that the Finnish Defense Forces have allowed some men to be excused from military service because of 'Internet Addiction.' The service period is 6 months - but that's too long away from the internet for these guys. Is this a joke? Is this a legitimate illness? Hm..where can I apply for disability..."
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i have this illness (Score:5, Funny)
WTF? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
On one hand I think claiming to be 'internet addicted' to the extent that you cannot cope without the internet is a joke.
On the other I would consider myself to have a dependancy on the internet which could be classed as a mild addiction - I begin to feel like a part of me is missing when I need to spend a prolonged time away from the Internet.
I imagine the main reason I am so dependant on the Internet is convenient access to informaion. If I stumble accross anything I don't understand, or something I would like to know more about, I can obtain a wealth of information and endless user opinions after a few google queries.
When I am at a computer, I almost consider it to be an extension of my brain. Whilst my own brain keeps a record of personal memories and knowledge, the Internet lets me augment my own experiences and knowledge with that of other people.
Spending most of my life with access to the internet at my fingertips, I have got used to (and to a certain extend dependant on) the ability to instantly recall any phone number someone gave me 12 years ago. Or the ability to consult thousands of experts in any specialised field and receive a response within a few seconds. Or the ability to instantly share my experiences and discoveries with others who may find it interesting/useful. When that access isn't possible, is it that surprising that I feel as if something is missing?
Is thirst for knowledge really an addiction that should be treated like a mental illness and cured?
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Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
They go on to say that these people are examined later (1-3 years), and that most of them are rid of the addicion at that point and then they can continue their service. About 80% finish their military service.
-- [Partly (shamelessly) quoted and freely translated from "Iltalehti" http://www.iltalehti.fi ]
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Re:WTF? (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:WTF? (Score:5, Insightful)
A sibling post describing the issue in more detail makes it sound like "internet addiction" is mainly a euphemism for "lazy, undisciplined and poorly socialized".
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Slashdot is why (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Slashdot is why (Score:5, Funny)
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BREAKING NEWS (Score:4, Funny)
News at 11!
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Not quite (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Not quite (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Not quite (Score:4, Funny)
Yep, this is standard practice in the Finnish army. If you break down and say you can't take it anymore, for whatever reason, you can get out.
So, if George Bush had been born elsewhere ...
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Re:Not quite (Score:5, Informative)
I think the rally driver bit can be explained by the fact that the countryside is full of small gravel roads which, in addition, are covered in snow and ice half of the year. The kids who are unfortunate enough to live there have nothing else to do so they end up driving around in old non-licensed cars. There even exists a term for these cards: peltoauto (field card). I never heard the word before I went to the army and actually met people from the Finnish periphery (kind of a tautology...)
F1 is more of a mystery. The drivers seem to be coming from places with paved roads. Go-karting? Anyway, we have produced more than those two F1 drivers (I'd argue any F1 driver is by definition a world class driver): Keke Rosberg (1982 world champion), Mika Hakkinen, J.J. Lehto, Mika Salo, and Kimi Raikkonen.
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Re:Not quite (Score:5, Funny)
If my experience is any guide, the affliction doesn't get any better with age.
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Cure? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Cure? (Score:5, Interesting)
But 6 months in coastal infantry was very good change in life, and in my opinion helped me to gain some experiences i wouldn't otherwise had. And there was those leaves, when we went to city with our friends and got drunk. Helped me to get life of my own, outside of computers.
So, if there is any young finnish people reading this, i would encourage you to stay in the army, and try to enjoy experiences you can't have, when you are playing counter-strike or hanging in irc.
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eh.. (Score:5, Interesting)
You have no clue! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:You have no clue! (Score:5, Funny)
We take .75 Million years to move from the open veldt, to skin tents, mud-thatch huts, and finally stucco condos with AC.
Who are these wiseacres who want to ignore this struggle, and revisit the "great" outdoors? Why don't y'all starve a bear, and stay in here - where the lights are on? There's a Red Bull in the 'fridge!
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They didnt get out so easy... (Score:5, Informative)
For record you can get 'E' just by requesting it, these guys were forced to 'E' due to addiction =)
(status of different letters in Finnish Defence Forces:
A - primary letter given to everyone, capable of active service
B - Some problem, maybe bad allergy or old injury
C - No service during peace time
D - No service (even if it's war time)
E - Service postponed )
Re:grow up? (Score:5, Insightful)
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Re:grow up? (Score:5, Interesting)
When asked to elaborate the officer said something like: "Well, we are not allowed to say who the enemy is, but we can say this much: It's not the Swedes"
I guess it's between Norway and Russia then, even though I find the two scenarios you presented more likely to occur
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What the Finnish Army does (Score:5, Interesting)
If you want winter experience, learn from Finnish, Norwegian or Swedish soldiers.
When I served my time in the Army, in Harstad, Norway (look it up)in jan-jul '97 there was a snowfall record. 2,5-3 meters of snow in valleys and -15 to -35 Celsius was the norm.
Advantages: You learn to handle extreme cold. It's easy to dig trenches and to camouflage the tent.
Disadvantages: It's bloody cold. When you've had your 4 hours of sleep inbetween watches, the uniform is not frozen anymore, but it's still damp/wet. When you get outside everything turns to ice.
Super-duper-advantage: During watches I got to see the Hale-Bopp comet at night, in perfect sky conditions. With night vision goggles too, that was incredible (and quite green/white). I missed an attack on the base though, the enemy got first strike there...
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Yep, Finland is an interesting place (Score:5, Insightful)
They also have one of the highest rates of alchoholisim in Europe, and I wonder how many people get waivers for that each year.
But really, what self-respecting Army would pass on a soldier because he spent too much time practicing his BFG9000 skills...
Re:Yep, Finland is an interesting place (Score:5, Informative)
The alcoholism isn't a problem for the military, since the drinking occurs on the soldiers' free time.
The thing about finnish military service is it's mandatory. If you don't want to do the punishment of 13 months of civil service, it's at least 6 months in the army. If you refuse both, you go to jail. Amnesty considers Finland one of the few countries that take prisoners because of their ideology.
The way to avoid service is to come up with a reason for them not to want you. The most common would probably be mental illness of sorts. There are countless stories about people doing the weirders stuff to convince their superiors they should be dismissed.
I think that would explain the net addiction. Somebody came up with a new way to avoid doing their time for another two years.
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That's more or less the idea (Score:5, Informative)
Doesn't mean it's worthless though. It's an "in case shit", to borrow a Chris Rock phrase, policy. Suppose someone was trying to invade Finland and NATO just wasn't able to send immediate help. Maybe it's WWIII or something. Whatever, just suppose. If everyone has had basic training, when you draft them it takes much less time to get them up to speed. You don't have to train them from scratch, or send them totally untrained against the enemy, you just give them a quick refresher and they can fight.
This goes double for countries with Finland that have, shall we say, inhospitable terrain.
Thing is, even if Finaland made every able citizen in their country serve in the military full time, they'd still not have a real military force to speak of only 1 million people and at conscript level abilityies. Never mind you'd destroy the economy doing that. So they don't, they have a small perminant military for the little things that need it, and then give everyone a little training, just in case.
Switzerland takes theis to the extreme, actually requiring all their households to have a government issued machine gun, which their citizens learn how to use during manditory military service. That combine with the terrain would make Switzerand an iron clad bitch to invade. That, and the finincal cooperation, were the two reasons the Nazis didn't invade.
It's not a real common practice these days, but it still works.
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Re:That's more or less the idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Any serious military attempt to seize Finland would be noticed 2-6 months before the attack could be made. It is just not possible to move all needed manpower and equipment for attack to Finland to the border without anyone noticing, and if you close your borders, its kinda clear message. This means that army has decent time to mobilize and give some extra training. Of course all bridges, roads and such could be mined before any attempt to take them could be made. In example, all finnish bridges and tunnels have holes in their concrete structure, where the explosives will be placed in case they need to be destroyed. I have even heard that there is book which contains all information about all bridges, their locations and amount of explosives needed for their destruction.
Our soldiers in peacekeeping missions get only 1-2 months of extra training before going to peacekeeping missions.
Of course it is possible to make surprise (finnish air defence would have ~20 minutes to react) attack with airforce only without any warning. But still, ground attack would be months away.
And about those pesky IR-thingies. do you people understand that they have very limited capability in forests. IR can be used to see in dark yes, but you can't see through things, such as forest. Thermal imaging can help with that, but mostly, thermal imaging equipment good enough to penetrate thick forest is in satellites, and in some recon planes and finland is very big country to sweep through constantly and accurately enough, to make any diffirence. When ever Finnish forces would be concentrated enough(like counter-attack) to use air force against them effectively, finnish forces would of course use their own air force and SAM power to counter enemy air superiority for small time period, so finnish forces can make their maneuver without full air power in their neck.
And in the end, i'd like to remind that Finland has much more modern air defences that of serbs or iraq. Especially in southern Finland where the BUK M1 units are situated.
And there is even more, i'd much more compare finnish situation to soviet vs. afgans than serbs or iraqis. Afgans were able to fight off soviet air attack with only stingers. While the terrain in Afganistan is very much diffirent than in Finland, when thinking about war, they give the same obstacles, just in diffirent form. I'd even say that when thinking of air defence, Finland is better country to defend than Afganistan. There is no better place to ambush air forces than country with lots of forests and modern air defence systems like BUK M1, Crotale NG and Igla.
What comes to alcoholism, yeah, military personnel drinks like any other worker class dude here. Mostly the stories what i heard in army were urban legends, totally incorrect or just greatly exaggarated. Even my father had heard few of the same stories that go around nowadays, and he was in finnish army 1952. If you ask about the stories from someone who has been in army, lets say 1980 you probably get even more same stories
And final part of my long post. I don't know if you have read the studies, but fins have one the highest ratings when they question the citizens will to defence their country against foreign invasion'. Me and most of my friends are ready to take arms if Finland is invaded. I have no will whatsoever to take arms to attack anywhere, or to fight in any other theater than Finland.
So, i'm not forced against my will to defend my own country, my friends aren't, and i think most of fins aren't. Even most of those people who didn't like army and hated it because they though there wouldn't be war (waste of time) would be ready to take arm once they noticed that Finland is under attack. There is small portion of people who don't like to use arms, i accept their choice. There is small portion of people who would be there against their will to defend their country. But so small that they probably wouldn't have any serious input in war anyway, they can always serve elsewhere than in flashpoints.
But mostly, above all, there would be determined finnish army with intention to fight off any invader.
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Re:Yep, Finland is an interesting place (Score:5, Interesting)
They did't. Basically, they sent the rookies back home to their mommies in order to grow up. In few years, they will find themselves back in the army. So, being addicted to the net is not a valid excuse to get them out of the service.
I was excused from the service back in my day, but that was because I got a severe allergic reaction the moment I reported for duty. It was propably the washing-powder (industrial strength) they use to wash the uniforms. Three days in the service, 30 days in the hospital and I was sent back home.
Speaking as a Finn.
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Oh hush (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Oh hush (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Oh hush (Score:4, Insightful)
Ok, ok, I know it's not real likely to happen, but do recall that there was a mand only around 50 years ago that was hell bent on conquering the entirety of Europe, and I seem to recall in 1939 Russia invaded Finland, and Finland won much to the supprise of most of the world. I'm just saying it's not an all bad idea to have your own army.
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Finnish troops were good in WW2 - pre-Internet ;-) (Score:4, Informative)
http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/F/Finn
However, with this bullshit, you wonder how they would fair now...
Re:Finnish troops were good in WW2 - pre-Internet (Score:5, Informative)
However, the recent studies have shown that most young Finnish people would jump to the arms if Finland were invaded, so I don't think this net addiction thing has any effect on that
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Bah! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bah! (Score:5, Funny)
According to legend, he pulled a McGuyver: he built a secret PC out of spare tank, riffle, and field radio parts.
"Sarge, Why is that young man scooting that grenade around on his desk and clicking the pin like that, staring into a glowing helmet?"
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don't make fun, netadditiction is ligitimate! (Score:4, Funny)
Check out the poll [netaddiction.com] and submit your thoughts to their hi-tech CGI script, and you'll see for yourself:
Thank You For Filling Out This Form
Below is what you submitted to netaddic-data@netaddiction.com on Wednesday, August 4, 2004 at 02:12:49
Ligitimate_Mental_Disorder: No
Wait. I voted "no," so it's not ligitimate, but maybe it's still legitimate. I'm confused.
Aw, screw it -- I'm going to play some Doom3.
It's true but there's more in it... (Score:5, Informative)
It's really not just their addiction that excuses them from serving their country.
I think the main reason is their lack of interest and ofcourse they are in a such a bad shape that it's impossible to manage the armyduties.
I mean that if you sit in front of your computer for 12 hours a day and then you suddenly have to wear 30-40 kilos backpack and told to march 10 kilometres.
Elsewhere on Slashdot... (Score:5, Funny)
Tell the addicts about this stuff and they will sign up in a flash for the ultra-realistic first-person shooter immersion experience!
neat (Score:5, Funny)
Reasons (Score:5, Interesting)
During this time some ppl get addicted to net. And it's not just the net, it's the hours. Pretty much every net addict has bizarre sleeping pattern. Usually you go on chatting/surfing/playing 15-24hours, and then get some sleep, when you get really really tired. You have no obligations to be awake at some given time.
One finnish news site said, that the biggest problem was adjusting to regular sleeping pattern, not the actual net addiction.
The first weeks in the army are ofcourse the worst. You are in a totally new enviroment, you don't know anyone, and you live in a single room with 8-12 other men. Lots of people keep yelling at you and bossing you around, and that makes people very stressed. During those first weeks, pretty much everyone wants to quit.
When you add sleep disorder to this, you pretty much are done for it. There's no way you can maintain your mental health and motivation.
I had no problems during my service time, but I know what those sleep disorders from too much computer using can do to you. It's total hell trying to live as a productive member of society, when you simply can't sleep during the nights. Almost screwed up my school because of that, but luckily I'm over it now.
But it still bugs me that sleeping 7-8 hours a night and spending 9 hours a day of your time to work, it leaves you so very little spare time. Atleast to compared to the situation where you had nothing else than spare time.
Re:Reasons (Score:5, Insightful)
Not true.
They can come to any decent EU country (like the UK) and not do it. We are not still living in the 1900's.
Finns can tell their government to fuck off, but so many find it's easier 'just to go along' with things and not rock the boat then justify that to themselves later (with some spurious trite reasoning).
It amazes me that a nation of largely intelligent people fall for the propaganda that national service being useful, and that governments in countries like Finland and Germany still manage to get away with it. In reality it's a barbaric anachronism and in the face of so many other countries that have had it in the past having now phased it out, or having announced plans to end it, people in Finland should really be questioning this rather than going along with the idea out of a sense of tradition. The lack of recognition for conscientious objectors in Finland is something I find particularly morally repugnant (and let's not even get into the sexism debate).
It would have been phased out by the EU by now, if it hadn't been for the dissent of countries like Germany that are so dependant on it for the success of the state, where it's used to make up for a shortfall of civil service employees (and so to allow the state to get away with not paying real wages) but that's a different matter that has to do with poor, neigh incompetent governance, it that's not a valid excuse for keeping in place a system of forced slave labour.
The overwhelming chorus of advice from renowned intelligence organisations like Janes continues to be that it's not a way to create any sort of useful military force, and that's it detrimental to overall performance of what should a dedicated and professional organisation made up exclusively of people who want to be there to do what is a very important job.
My advice to people in Finland would be to just go and live in another EU member state like the UK, where we don't force people to signup to work for the government (and where they don't get to tell you what weekends you can go home and what ones you cant).
We don't have national service and it's precisely because of that (and because we do the Right Thing (TM) and choose to pay to have a large, competent and professional army rather than trying to scrape one together from kids who don't really want to be there) that we have one of the most powerful armies in the world (in the top 10, after the USA, India, Russia and Korea (north and south)). For such a small country, that's not bad going, and vastly better than the majority of the rest of the world, even with their swelled ranks fluffed with conscripts.
Given the evidence against it, and the insistence by the intelligence community that it's not only of no value, but can be of negative value it's a wonder people still do it. It all comes back to 'doing what's right' vrs. 'doing what's easiest'. If more people had a backbone it would have been abolished long ago, the army would be stronger, the people would have more freedom and they'd be quite a bit happier.
With a society that has the kind of outlook they do on issues like this, perhaps it is not surprising that Finland has the highest suicide rate of any western nation.
Finns, the government are there to serve you, not the other way around. Do yourself and your entire nation a favour and them to get stuffed. National service costs your nation money overall (through lossed taxes, equipment and wages), it doesn't give you a useful fighting force and it is part of an oppressive environment that harms the physiological well being of the nations citizens.
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Heard on the news (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd say such people need that kind of shock more than most.
Degree in CS (Score:4, Funny)
NetAddiction.com... *Web* Site? (Score:4, Funny)
Does anyone other than me think that having a web site to combat net addiction is a little messed up? "Help, I've got net addiction, I need to spend less time online!" - "Oh, hey, there's this great web site that can help you with that, you want the URL?"
Isn't that sort of like having your Alcoholics Anonymous meeting in a bar?
Application (Score:4, Funny)
Why, online of course.
Re:oww (Score:5, Informative)
www.mil.fi [www.mil.fi]
Those that refuse to enter even civil service can be sentenced to (usually a minimum security) prison for 197 days (max.).
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Re:oww (Score:5, Informative)
1. Go to the military academy (Officers)
2. School yourself in some civlian field and join later with your crendentials (i.e. electric engineers and the like) (Warrant officers)
3. Sign up after the army (NCOs).
It's entirely possible to make a career out of the army. Just because the conscription term is max. 362 days doesn't exclude anyone from staying longer as long as they work for the military.
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Re:Finnish army needs no nerds like those sent hom (Score:4, Insightful)
(Mind you, internet addiction was not my reason for not going to the army - my "work computer" during my service was a glorious Schneider 386SX with W3.11 and no net connection. But during my year I got exceedingly good in Solitaire. ;-)
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Re:Addiction problems (Score:5, Interesting)
I've had the internet since 92 or 93, and before that Compuserve, and before that BBS's, and with each service came an increasing ability to *ALWAYS* be able to find something to entertain myself. If its reading an article, learning a new programming language, a piece of software to play with. That was 5 years ago.
Now with mp3s, and bit torrent, the entire world of music, film, and television are avaliable online and I have no tolerance for being presented with entertainment a television network or someone else thinks I might want to see. I want to assemble my own entertainment, I watch/read/play what I want to, when I want to, on my schedule.
After a few years of this, I just have no patience.
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