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Television Media Upgrades

HDTV TiVo Now Shipping 144

Posted by CowboyNeal from the never-looked-better dept.
davco9200 writes "After over a year of waiting, the HDTV TiVo from Hughes (HR10-2350) is finally shipping. People have been receiving their first unit and you can read their first impressions. Suffice to say: they love it."
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HDTV TiVo Now Shipping More

HDTV TiVo Now Shipping

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  • For DIY'ers (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Space cowboy ( 13680 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:08AM (#8958903) Journal
    The Nano-ITX [mini-itx.com] cpu/chipset from VIA also does HD mpeg decoding in hardware. Getting technical docs out of VIA is a blood/stone issue, but the existing community peeps have managed to get the SD HW mpeg decoder working, and you'd expect it to be substantially similar.... You'll need an HD MPEG capture card though because the chip's nowhere near fast enough to do it in software

    (The Hoojum [see above link] box also looks very very nice, at least IMHO :-)

    Simon

    • Re:For DIY'ers (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Tribbin ( 565963 )
      What about other codecs?

      Is it like a 'co-processor' that does certain calculations used for MPEG faster? That might make it useful for other codecs too.

      Or am I totally wrong?
    • Then how can Final Cut Pro HD have real-time HD processing? Does it convert it to uncompressed MPEG or something?

      • Re:For DIY'ers (Score:3, Insightful)

        by JDevers ( 83155 )
        Well, for starters he is referring to a VERY underpowered Via based CPU on a mini-ITX platform, NOT a dual-PPC970 workstation. Saying one can't do something is different than saying the other can't.
        • Yes, it is a underpowered system, but if you went for raw value, you could get a PC that would do HD well for the same price as the Tivo. Now configuration and UI are another matter.
      1. The Nano-ITX cpu/chipset from VIA also does HD mpeg decoding in hardware.

      I don't see any HD connectors, just RCA and S-Video. [mini-itx.com] Would the data come over the ethernet jack from another machine?

    • Huh? (Score:5, Informative)

      by -tji ( 139690 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:00PM (#8959227) Journal
      Dude, that's not even close to a Tivo.

      The VIA chipset supports MPEG2 acceleration (offload of iDCT and Motion Compensation) *not* full HD decoding. So, you still need a lot of CPU horsepower to display HD - more than the 1GHz VIA C3 has to offer.

      Beyond that, there is no way to hook an HDTV tuner to that board, not to mention the 2 Off The Air tuners the Tivo supports.

      Then, you've got the DirecTV input.. The Tivo has 2 DirecTV tuners, while it's impossible to use DirecTV with a PC board.

      Then, you've got the software. There are some decent PC PVR packages available. But, nothing up to the Tivo's level.
      • I was thinking more in terms of a Myth TV front-end than the whole shebang to be honest - so you either put a wireless card into it (you can get those in the PCI form factor supported) or you link it up by network to the source. You don't need the HD input to be part of the same box...

        Since VIA have put a lot of effort into upping the boards memory capabilities, and running SD mpeg decode takes (on an 8mbit stream on my mini-itx box) ~12% CPU, I'd be surprised if it couldn't handle HD. My projector can on
        • There are some HDTV tuner cards available, which rely on DxVA acceleration for MPEG2 decoding. With a Radeon card, the bare minimum CPU is an 800MHz P3. With an Nvidia GeForce4 MX or FX Series (the other Nvidia cards don't do MPEG2 accel) it takes a 1.6GHz P4. Assuming the VIA chip's capabilities are somewhere between the Radeon & Nvidia chips, let's say it takes a 1GHz P3. From my experience with the Via C3, the preformance is around 1/2 of the performance of a P3 at the same clock speed. So, th

          • With an Nvidia GeForce4 MX or FX Series (the other Nvidia cards don't do MPEG2 accel) it takes a 1.6GHz P4.

            I don't know where you got that number, but it's ridiculous.

            I'm using up about 30% of my 1.6GHz CPU while playing 1080p HDTV content, and I'd bet most of that is only because audio decoding isn't hardware accelerated...

            BTW, that is with MPlayer on Linux, using XVMC.

            And I've used the hardware playback capabilities of ATI cards before, and I can assure you they don't perform twice as well as NVidia's

          • As I understand it, OTA reception will work on the HDTV Tivo without a DirecTV subscription, as indeed it does on all DirecTV HD receivers. What won't work, though, is the Tivo functionality, since the Tivo service (for this device) is only available through DirecTV.
        • In my experience that's seldom a justified assumption.

    • Re:For DIY'ers (Score:3, Informative)

      by illumin8 ( 148082 )
      The Nano-ITX cpu/chipset from VIA also does HD mpeg decoding in hardware. Getting technical docs out of VIA is a blood/stone issue, but the existing community peeps have managed to get the SD HW mpeg decoder working, and you'd expect it to be substantially similar.... You'll need an HD MPEG capture card though because the chip's nowhere near fast enough to do it in software

      Actually, if you combined that with a cable HD set top box with Firewire output, you could capture the MPEG transport stream with very

  • Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by TrevorB ( 57780 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:15AM (#8958948) Homepage
    I'm waiting for this Slashdot headline:

    TiVo available in Canada

    It's about time we had this by now, dammit...
    • it is your damn laws. tell your government to get rid of the regulations that keep TIVO out.
      • it is your damn laws. tell your government to get rid of the regulations that keep TIVO out.

        Canada is too far down the fascist slippery slope for that to work. In Ontario, for example, you don't get title to a house, or a car: your "ownership" is registered in a government database. Guess what could happen if someone became a serious thorn in the government's side?

        There are two big reasons for keeping American satellite television out of Canada:

        1. Economically, the local satellite and cable providers

    • Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Quasar1999 ( 520073 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:22AM (#8958993) Journal
      Tivo is available in Canada. It's just not allowed to be used. I purchased a Tivo, paid the duty, and then was told a month later that subscribing to DirecTv as a Canadian citizen was illegal. When I asked for my Duty to be refunded, they made it expressly clear that owning the tivo was legal... using it was not.

      So, go ahead and buy a tivo, you won't be allowed to use it, but it is technically available in canada...
      • Tivo is available in Canada. It's just not allowed to be used. I purchased a Tivo, paid the duty, and then was told a month later that subscribing to DirecTv as a Canadian citizen was illegal. When I asked for my Duty to be refunded, they made it expressly clear that owning the tivo was legal... using it was not.

        That's the status on DirecTV units in Canada.

        Standalone TiVo's are perfectly legal to use, however TiVo's data service doesn't dial-in numbers in Canada nor do they bother to cover Canadian TV sc
      • Why would it be illegal to use it?

      • Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Informative)

        by TrevorB ( 57780 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:49AM (#8959171) Homepage
        I did a bit of research into this. As far as I can tell, the DirecTV/Canada issue has to do with the reception with sattelite signals, not with PVR's. I just want to hook this thing up to my local cable (preferably my digital cable, if at all possible, which many of us have up here)

        On the contrary, Tivo seems quite hostile to the idea of selling Tivos in Canada. Once a national canadian radio station called up Tivo to ask about Tivo in canada, and their PR rep got angry about setting up an interview with Tivo under false pretences.

        Does anyone know what Tivo's beef is with Canada?

        • Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:11PM (#8959282)
          Does anyone know what Tivo's beef is with Canada?

          Simply it's a market that they haven't chosen to enter.

          The PR rep had a right to get angry, he was being ambushed with a question he didn't have a good answer to. There's really no technical or legal barrier standing in the way, but it's just a matter that TiVo hasn't seen fit to contract with Canadian dial-up network, program the IR software to work with Canadian cable and DBS companies, and create the channel lineups for Canadian cable systems.

          For that matter, there's no TiVo in Mexico either. TiVo's only non-USA market is the UK.

          • Re:Waiting for this Slashdot headline... (Score:5, Informative)

            by topham ( 32406 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:27PM (#8959387) Homepage
            Whatever the over-all reason, the ones you've described aren't them.

            A tivo in Canada can generally call a local number to contact Tivo. No hacking of any required for it. There are local numbers in all major cities. I believe they contracted with UUNet, but whatever.

            The IR Software works just fine with my Digital cable box. Canada uses pretty much the same electronics as the United States. There may be the odd difference, but it is the exception, not the rule.

            I believe Tivo gets their guide data from Tribune, which, in my case is the source for Zap2It.com which is my source for tv listings.

            The only technical issue with a Tivo in Canada that I can see is that we do not have zip-codes, instead we have Postal Codes, and this does complicate things a little on configuraing a Tivo, but the changes were made to support Tivo in the UK, so even those software changes are not a big deal.

            The only real issue that could be holding Tivo out of the Canadian market is French language issues. Anything else has to be political issues.
            • The only real issue that could be holding Tivo out of the Canadian market is French language issues.

              I doubt it. I record french programs on my tivo all the time. The title shows up in french and everything works perfectly. The menu has to be a snap to change over to french. I bet it's political.
          • Speaking as a Brit I'd happily give up TiVo in favour of iTMS.

            It seems most TiVo services are pretty restricted in what they'll do and likely only to get more so as advert-skipping is widely suppressed already....

            If I won't let me upload files to my PC, what's the point? might as well just use KaZaAlite for free.
          • A PR rep NEVER has a right to get angry, especially when they are REPRESENTING the company to the PUBLIC.
          • > TiVo's only non-USA market is the UK.

            For small values of market - the service is supported, but they aren't on sale any more [tivo.com].


        • Just buy a regular Tivo and check out tivocanada.com.

          I have a Series 2 working quite well (98%). HMO option is the only issue outstanding.

          I did pay for the lifetime subscription, I had no intentions of ripping Tivo off, I just wanted a working PVR. They get their money, and I get my PVR. I looks like I may, down the road, have to pay Zap2It for tv listings, but right now atleast they are free.
          (And they now support a direct data option, no more webpage scraping).

          [note fatal issues: HMO option (which I bo
        • > Does anyone know what Tivo's beef is with Canada? I don't know why standalone TiVos aren't available. However, I know that DirecTV isn't available in Canada due to Canadian laws. I don't have the specifics, but it has to do with the fact that a certain percentage of programming needs to originate from Canadians. It's a stupid law that's supposed to help protect Canadians somehow. Learned this from someone I know who used to live there.
    • But A TiVo would be cool too. To hell with those scandinavian cable providers, they all suck.

  • HD Porn (Score:5, Funny)

    by scifience ( 674659 ) <webmaster@scifience.net> on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:15AM (#8958953) Homepage
    Now all we need are the HD porn channels to go with it! Buy it once, watch it again (and again) later!

    • Re:HD Porn (Score:1, Flamebait)

      by sleepychameleon ( 703219 )

      Now all we need are the HD porn channels to go with it! Buy it once, watch it again (and again) later!

      Actually, I read an article somewhere recently that suggested that HD porn isn't going to be the way to go. The basic gist of the article was that we like are porn stars smooth and unblemished; we're willing to accept some imperfections in Hollywood actors, but the author noted that Cameron Diaz's acne scars threw him/her off a little. So HD sex isn't such a good thing--what about HD violence? Is it mo

    • Now all we need are the HD porn channels to go with it! Buy it once, watch it again (and again) later!

      Pssst, don't tell anyone, but there's pornography right here on the Internet. You don't even need a TV or DirecTV subscription. Don't let anyone else know or they might shut us down though so keep it on the down-low.

    • Spice Networks has a HDTV porn channel on DirecTV, Spice HD.

      http://www.directv.com/see/landing/spicehd.html [directv.com]

    • Re:HD Porn (Score:3, Funny)

      by evilviper ( 135110 )
      That's the last thing you want. With such a high res, you're going to see that the "barely legal teens" are in their 40s, and not all that good looking when you can see every imperfection in high-res, on a 60" display...

  • 4 Tuners! (Score:4, Informative)

    by unfortunateson ( 527551 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:24AM (#8959011) Journal
    Ok, there are PC-based units, but will you find one with two DirecTV tuners and two terrestrial HD tuners? I saw this demo'd at CES in January, and it looks very nice.

    Of course there's barely 4 channels worth of HD I'd want to record at once, but it's certainly a nice package. Like the other DirecTiVos, though, it does not have an MPEG encoder, so no cable or analog antenna inputs -- you're stuck with DirecTV and broadcast digital.

    • Re:4 Tuners! (Score:4, Informative)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:20PM (#8959327)
      Even though the unit has four tuners on board, only two can be active at any given moment. Anything more and they'd end up having too much data headed to the standard hard drive at once. Optimized-for-DVRs HDs are in the pipeline, so eventually this limitation will go away in future models.

      There's really no content loss in not having an MPEG encoder on board. Nearly every analog channel is now being repeated digitally on their sister digital channel, or in most major markets DirecTV has an MPEG-translated version you can get access to.

      This is the early adopter's model. There's going to be better ones in a few years.
    • Of course there's barely 4 channels worth of HD I'd want to record at once

      The system only supports recording two streams at once. That's two OTA digital TV streams, two satellite streams, or one of each. Any combination of HD and SD.

  • MPEG compression (Score:5, Interesting)

    by horatio ( 127595 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:26AM (#8959026)
    Why doesn't the MPEG video compression negate the HD advantages? Because of the MPEG compression, there is a noticable quality difference between my (non-HD) TV on the TiVo and bypassing the TiVo to watch TV directly.

    • Re:MPEG compression (Score:3, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      This is actually one of the nice features of the DirecTivo units. Since they don't do any local MPEG encoding, the picture quality is great. Actually when compared to my other Directv receiver it was much better (but this could be due to my other receiver being of poor quality).

      I have also used standalone tivo's though, and although I have noticed the pictures slightly modified, they seemed to be slightly different (the tivo had smoothing turned on), but again, neither was bad.

      But for cost and ease of u

    • Re:MPEG compression (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Gilesx ( 525831 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:42AM (#8959123)
      Here's how to access a "hidden" Tivo mode, which gives you a much improved picture. Perhaps this is enabled for HDTV (although the resolution would *still* be too low)

      http://www.ljay.org.uk/tivoweb/tivo_fpga.html
      • Note that this information applies only to the PAL-based TiVo units sold in the UK.

        The HDTV units have no MPEG settings, because they don't encode to MPEG at all, they just record the bits as they're given to it from either DirecTV or the broadcast digital TV station.

    • Re:MPEG compression (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Because HD (even over-the-air) is *already* MPEG compressed. The TiVo just captures/buffers that stream. Quality is the same either way...

    • Re:MPEG compression (Score:4, Informative)

      by LostCluster ( 625375 ) * on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:02PM (#8959240)
      HDTV broadcast signals are by definition MPEG compressed at the TV station. Therefore, all the TiVo unit has to do is just record the already digital bitstream without having to decompress/recompess.

      MPEG is designed as a processes that's computationally cheap to decode, which means that it's computationally expensive to encode. Basically, TV stations, networks, and signal providers have more expensive MPEG encoders than can ever be included in a consumer device, so they come up with more-bang-for-the-bandwidth. It'll always be better to just save that bitstream to an HD than to decompress and re-encode.
    • When you receive an HD program - whether that's via an off-air ATSC reciever, a cable set-top box, or via satellite - that HD program is actually transmitted as an MPEG compressed transport stream. It's then decoded by your receiver/stb and sent to your TV.

      The quality difference you see on your TiVo is due to the MPEG encoding done by the TiVo. Because it's got to to real-time encoding and encode at a relatively low bit-rate to save disk space, the encoding isn't going to be that wonderful, and you see t

      • The quality difference you see on your TiVo is due to the MPEG encoding done by the TiVo. Because it's got to to real-time encoding and encode at a relatively low bit-rate to save disk space, the encoding isn't going to be that wonderful, and you see the poor results when it's decoded and sent to your TV.

        However, this doesn't apply to HDTiVo, which doesn't do any encoding at all. It just saves the already-encoded HD signal to disk.

    • Re:MPEG compression (Score:4, Informative)

      by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @07:28PM (#8961845) Journal
      Because of the MPEG compression, there is a noticable quality difference between my (non-HD) TV on the TiVo and bypassing the TiVo to watch TV directly.

      Yes, but your non-HD TV signal is analog. For Tivo to store it, it has to convert it to digital, then encode it in real-time (which is never good for quality).

      Besides that, Tivos encode to low-bitrate MPEG in order to save space. If you select the highest quality, it should be high enough that you won't notice any difference in quality.

      HDTV is broadcast in MPEG2, so the Tivo just has to store it, losslessly, perfectly. So with HDTV, the signal from the TV will be just as good as one that is direct.

      Interestingly enough, if you wanted a slightly lower-quality HDTV stream in order to save space, the Tivo should be able to do some MPEG2 tricks, like Requant, which will require practically no CPU power. If the company is smart, a Tivo is going to be a lot more like a TV studio, and less like a VCR.

  • DirecTivo, HD-TiVo, and problems (Score:5, Informative)

    by PenguinOpus ( 556138 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:52AM (#8959188)
    All DirecTiVo (including HD), record the digital bit stream directly from the satellite onto the hard drive, so there is no degradation at all. The HD-TiVo added OTA (over-the-air) tuners for the local digital TV broadcasts and those bits are also sent directly to the hard drive. 19Mbits/sec is the maximum HD rate for OTA, while satellite/cable encodings of HD tend to be 13Mbits/sec or less.

    In reading the initial comments about the HD-TiVo, there is one complaint that could be a problem for those who are currently using a DirecTV HD receiver like the DTC-100 and a non-HD DirecTiVo.

    Apparently, when the HD-TiVo gets a non-HD signal, it doesn't automatically switch its output to 480i/480p. It also doesn't stretch/zoom the image to fill a 16x9 screen. This means you need to manually switch the output if you want your TV's de-interlacer/scaler to adjust the image. Depending on who you ask, this is a no-op, annoying, or fatal. (I'm probably in the annoying camp)
    • It also doesn't stretch/zoom the image to fill a 16x9 screen.

      The HD-Tivo *will* stretch, fill, or letterbox 4:3 SDTV content - depending on how you've configured it (you choose how to display it.. I prefer leaving it 4:3 with sidebar letterboxing, but others prefer to stretch it). Check on tivocommunity.com, there is a link to a PDF of the HD-Tivo manual, it describes the options for displaying 4:3 material.

      The only issue is the other one you mentioned - when people want to use their TV's scaler, and

  • 100 channels of HD (Score:3, Insightful)

    by poptones ( 653660 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:53AM (#8959194) Journal
    for the last years I've had just a few channels - I cancelled my tivo subscription long ao because I didn't find $70 a month worth of stuff to watch in exchange for the $70 or so a month I was paying. But lately I've been wondering what I might be missing.

    The other day I was laying in a hospital bed waiting to go into surgery to get my deviated septum fixed. Decided to flip on the TV and see what I've been missing... flip... flip.. flip...

    I turned it off and went to sleep until the nurse came in and gave me a shot of demerol.

    It would be great if there were something on to watch. As it is, though, all I ever watch anymore is Survivor and Star Trek and West Wing. If I want to see west wing in HD or Star Trek I just download it from usenet - and it ain't locked down, as I would imagine these gadgets are.

    If Hollywood wants me to subscribe to one of these services, they better start showing something worth paying for.

    No, scratch that... they better start showing a lot of stuff worth paying for. And without the DRM nonsense.

    • I just download it from usenet

      How can you download entire movies from usenet?

      Are there actually ISPs that would keep newsgroups that post gigabytes worth of media every day?

      • Yep. Check out the *.multimedia.* newsgroups for example. My ISP will hold about the last two or three days, which can be a few GB of movies.
        • As I thought.

          Newsgroups are not carried by the ISP because of "illegal content".

          Oh well.

          • What do you mean "the" ISP? Newsgroups are carried by MY ISP and I'm on dialup. They're carried by AOL, the various Bells, Cox, Roadrunner, Earthlink - I don't know of an ISP that DOESN'T carry newsgroups. I also subscribe to Easynews, an ISP which most definitely carries newsgroups - it's their business.
            • What do you mean "the" ISP?

              Ah. A mistake by a non-native English speaker. I didn't mean to use a definite article to such an effect.

              I simply meant that all the ISPs I've been a customer to have carried all text newsgroups, some vanilla alt.binaries.* groups but no groups containing massive video/audio files.

          • Got $10/month? Giganews [giganews.com] has 40 day retention of 99% of all newsgroups and they're extremely fast. (not affiliated, just have the 1Gb free through my ISP deal)

  • An ode to my TiVo, (Score:5, Funny)

    by JRHelgeson ( 576325 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @11:56AM (#8959208) Homepage Journal
    By: Joel Helgeson

    My TiVo box, a loyal pal,
    a friend I truly care for.
    Because it guarantees I'll see,
    the shows I wasn't there for.
    Two-thousand shows I've 'taped' so far,
    each night I 'tape' a new one.
    Who knows, perhaps there'll come a day,
    I'll find the time to view one...

  • They love it? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ltwally ( 313043 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:03PM (#8959246) Homepage Journal
    "
    read their first impressions. [tivocommunity.com] Suffice to say: they love it."

    So I'm reading the first 3 (out of 4) pages from that link of early-impressions... seems like there are various problems -- including: cleaning out the menu signals (which are currently bleeding into the actual video feed), slow(er) menu response time, difficulties properly identifying and/or configuring which resolution to output to, and low quality when using the tivo unit to scale the video (instead of letting the TV do it).

    Now some of these problems can be fixed easily (more or less) with a firmware update... others might be a sign that the hardware isn't up to snuff. Either way, I don't seem to be reading in rave reviews of the new TiVo... certainly nothing wild enough to dare claim anyone "loves it."

    Personally, I think I'll hold on to my money for a while yet until a few of these kinks are worked out.

  • For those of us in the UK.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Stopmotioncleaverman ( 628352 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:04PM (#8959256)
    ...unfortunately, HDTV seems to still be a pipe dream. We receive a massive amount of digital content, but mostly due to technical inadequacy, the stations don't transmit in high definition.

    I, for one, would love to be able to get HDTV here in the UK. I suppose the good side to this is that by the time we finally DO get HDTV, I might be able to afford a Tivo to record it with. Although, having said that, based on our past success at getting new technologies rolled out, we'll be in the year 2030 with holographic tv, or intra-brain chips that just beam the information straight to our visual cortex.

    Wait a minute. That'd be pretty cool. Although, for those of us in the UK, HoloTV will be implemented by the time we're actually partaking in television. And by the time.... [iterate].
    • HDTV isn't quite as important in the UK - in the US they are all jumping on the HDTV bandwagon because their NTSC TV system is (frankly) crap. In comparison to NTSC, PAL is already quite high quality.
      • Well...

        PAL may be higher resolution (~580 lines vs. 480 lines, after overscan) but it's crap in other ways. Particularly the fact that the vertical refresh is 50Hz.

        ATSC 720P delivers 720 noninterlaced (progressive) lines, 60 frames a second. 1080i delivers 1080 interlaced lines, 60 fields a second.

        PAL is OK, but it still doesn't look great on a 42" Plasma. Even an EDTV can reveal the flaws of PAL.

        Yes, PAL is far better than NTSC, particularly in the color department. Remember, however, that many in the
        • NTSC is crap because it came first, and because it had backwards compatibility. NTSC hacked color onto the existing black-and-white signal in a way that allowed black-and-white TV's to still recieve the old signal - without requirng two channels.

          The same applies to PAL - the colour subcarrier is stuffed into a backward compatible B&W signal so the old B&W TVs can still see it.

          The European Digital TV system (which, like GSM, will likely become the worldwide standard), DVB-T, is a fine system.

          Fo

  • I got one... (Score:5, Informative)

    by burnsy ( 563104 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:12PM (#8959284)
    I received my unit 2 days ago and I must say that I don't love it. It is acceptable, but not anything to fall in love with.

    TiVo really dropped the ball by not adding any new features or functionality, not even the HMO features. This is a stright port from the old version of TiVo software to support HDTV.

    TiVo had the opportunity (and more than plenty of time) to make this product a huge leap the PVR game, but they seemed to have choose the safe route.

    So for your $900 you get a TiVo that supports HDTV, but not much else.

    • Re:I got one... (Score:3, Interesting)

      by The Only Druid ( 587299 )
      I'm curious, what features would you have them add? HMO is already not going to happen for the simple reason that their networks have demanded it, so what would you add?
    • from the links, i'd have to agree with you.

      but part of the beauty of the tivo is that the software can be easily and automatically upgraded through self-initiated downloads. you could wake up one morning and BAM! HMO

      personally i'm glad that they decided to release to market as soon as the hardware was ready. now they can devote the bulk of their resources to upgrading the software while ppl are already enjoying the features present in this product.

    • Re:I got one... (Score:4, Informative)

      by MBCook ( 132727 ) <foobarsoft@foobarsoft.com> on Saturday April 24, 2004 @03:24PM (#8960363) Homepage
      TiVo did NOT drop the ball.

      DirecTV won't allow HMO for some reason (there is a petition out there somewhere). NO DirecTiVo has HMO. It's not TiVo's fault, DirecTV is the one you've got a beef with. DirecTV is in total controll about what version of software it runs (verison 3.1.x probably) and many other things.

      As for "adding any new features or functionality", like what? I've got a second generation DirecTiVo (Phillips DSR-7000) and other than HMO, I can't think of anything that I'd like it to have. The only thing that I wish it had was more memory and a faster processor, which I assume that the new box has.

      They added HDTV and you can still record two programs at once (even two HDTV programs at once). What big stuff could you want other than that?

      As for the $900, for that you get a TiVo that can hold 200 hours of SD ($99 dollar TiVo plus about $250 for upgrade from 9thTee), a HDTV reciever DirecTV reciever ($300 for a Samsung from BestBuy). That's $650. But you can record TWO things at once, so throw in a second HDTV reciever to make things fair (another $300) and now we're up to $1050. Of course all this stuff is in one nice little box so you don't need nearly as many cables. The box could be considered a $150 SAVINGS over the equivelent other equiptment only it's all in one and does things that the above stuff can't (like TiVo HDTV content).

      • Great point about the cost. $900 is a fair price, but like I said, not in love.

        Suprisingly, this new one is not faster at all.

        Hmmmm...Somethings TiVo could have added...

        - Folders grouping programs together
        - Free space indicator
        - A wider program guide to take advantage of widescreen TVs
        - The ability to add external storage
        - Network connectivity
        - Internet integration (for example, a movie listing in the guide could link to IMDB).
        - More advanced Wishlists and Seasons Passes (let me add my own criteria and
        • Okay, you're missing some serious factors that have already been brought up:

          1) folders: these are present in the 4.x versions of Tivo software. However, as mentioned above, DirecTV chooses what version of software to run on DirecTivos, not Tivo, and they have chosen to keep 3.x
          2) The ability to add external storage: what would that be enclosed in? Are you suggesting they support external firewire drive enclosures for example?
          3) Network connectivity: the only purpose in this is to enable hacks such
        • I agree with some of your desired features (folders, freee space and caller id).

          For the most part though, this is exactly what I was looking for: an HD version of the DirecTiVo box. For the first generation, I think they did a great job. Nothing too amibtious, just make a high def version of the DirecTiVo.

          I received my HD TiVo on Friday and got everything connected Friday night. My only concern is the huge list of shows on my 120 gig SD DirecTiVo box. I can't fill up the HD box with new stuff until I

  • They love it? (Score:5, Informative)

    by boarder ( 41071 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:16PM (#8959303) Homepage
    I'm wondering if the poster or the editor even RTFA. I'm reading the forums, and most DO NOT love it. Most people are annoyed by it. They say it looks great, sure, but they say it is annoying to use in practice.

    The big problem they are having is it doesn't switch native resolutions. Every time you change the channel or watch a new show that has been recorded, you have to change the output resolution. How many wives want to hit 10 buttons just to change the channel? Others are saying it isn't recording all of their season pass shows correctly.

    They are optimistic, though, because the chips used in the TiVo should easily be able to fix the native res problem by a software update.

  • I want one! (Score:3, Funny)

    by uncoveror ( 570620 ) on Saturday April 24, 2004 @12:22PM (#8959338) Homepage
    Dear Hughes: Send me a fre HDTV Tivo, and I promise to write a glowing review of it at uncoveror.com!
  • < sarcasm >

    They're going out of business! Then you'll be left with a best-in-class device that does exactly what you want and there won't be any company around to support it! They are "beleaguered," just like Apple (another company that actually delivers the goods, today) and so you had better listen to the F.U.D.!

    < /sarcasm >

  • Boooooo Hisssss (Score:4, Interesting)

    by numbski ( 515011 ) * <[numbski] [at] [hksilver.net]> on Saturday April 24, 2004 @01:12PM (#8959625) Homepage Journal
    DirecTV HD TiVos come with a High-Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) connector with High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection (HDCP). A cable is included for TVs with HDCP-compliant DVI inputs. Regular DVI inputs could potentially get a downrezzed or blank picture depending on content providers.

    Get thee behind me, Satan!

    • Re:Boooooo Hisssss (Score:3, Insightful)

      by numbski ( 515011 ) *
      BTW, I own an HDTV that I specifically made sure had none of this BS on board. Same goes for my HD Direc TV receiver.

      The fact that this is being supported now sickens me.

      Regular DVI inputs could potentially get a downrezzed or blank picture depending on content providers.

      THAT had best be FUD, otherwise I would be seriously PO'D. I don't pay for 'content protection'.
      • BTW, I own an HDTV that I specifically made sure had none of this BS on board. Same goes for my HD Direc TV receiver.

        I hate to break the bad news to you, but in a few years you're going to be wishing you had a DVI input with HDCP support on your TV. If you purchased your TV any time in the last two years I'm surprised you didn't research this. Already HBO and Showtime are turning on the DVI-HDCP copy protection flag, which encrypts the DVI stream between the TV and STB. It's only a matter of time befor

    • Re:Boooooo Hisssss (Score:3, Interesting)

      by evilviper ( 135110 )
      This is a free-market. If you don't like their DRM, I would strongly encourage you not to buy the product...

      If you need HDTV time-shifting, a HDTV PCI card is under $200, and a Geforce4 (which has on-board MPEG1/2-decoding) is very cheap (~$40).

      Throw them in an old slow PC (with a huge hard drive of course) and you've got all you really need. It will take a beginner a day or two to setup all the software, but it's no big hardship, and you'll get a lot more features than you'd ever have in a Tivo.
  • I saw further down on the page it was talking about an OpenCable TIVO coming in July for the new common cable standard. Does that mean I can finally have TIVO on my digital cable?

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