Sun and Microsoft Settle Litigation 427
spurious cowherd writes "According to The Register Sun Microsystems & Microsoft have reached a settlement in their several lawsuits aainst each other. Sun gets $2B and both parties agree to share intellectual property." There's a press release to read as well.
Two things stand out (Score:5, Insightful)
1) MS is *not* pledging to keep Java up-to-date on the Windows platform, which basically means that applets like mine (see sig) have to use Java 1.1 and nothing higher. Sure, people can download the Java plugin, and lots do, but more don't. On a casual visit to a website, no-one will go through the rigmarole of downloading and installing the latest Java, just to see your applet...
2) I'm a bit concerned about the "As a result of this agreement, Sun and Microsoft engineers will cooperate to allow identity information to be easily shared between Microsoft Active Directory and the Sun Java System Identity Server" part. The single-signon used to be limited to MS-only platforms, now it has the capability to reach into linux-server land
If I were being really cynical, I might conclude that MS had spent $2B of it's ample reserves to purchase an extension of single-sign-on into unix (linux and solaris) territory at a time when Sun needed cash.
It might just slap the EU back into line a bit as well, considering that MS will *spend* $2B to *possibly get* an advantage. What was that fine again ? (Yes, I know about the other measures, but you can only respond with what you have, and MS has loads of cash)
Simon the cynic.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:5, Interesting)
Not good for software-patent sanity, open source, etc.
IBM vs. Sun (Score:4, Insightful)
From the press release [sun.com]:
"Patents and Intellectual Property: The parties have agreed to a broad covenant not to sue with respect to all past patent infringement claims they may have against each other. The agreement also provides for potential future extensions of this type of covenant. The two companies have also agreed to embark on negotiations for a patent cross-license agreement between them. "
I expect Solaris10-patent/Linux lawsuits to follow. With the MSFT involvement, I think Sun's the next SCO.
Sun as the next SCO? (Score:5, Interesting)
I would hope not; but this seems like an interesting fear. Seems Sun is the last Unix vendor left whose strategy is based on a very large R&D investment in a proprietary Unix; and it is in both their interest and Microsoft's for Sun to protect this investment.
Re:Sun as the next SCO? (Score:3, Insightful)
Sun's Java Desktop that they are so fervently pushing is LINUX based.
Solaris is a very good OS for servers, but blows for desktops for the most part.
Re:Sun as the next SCO? (Score:4, Informative)
Depends on what your using your desktop for. Solaris at the desktop tends to be a preference a user makes. If your developing for a Solaris environment you may want to use your local workstation as a sandbox for local development/testing. While this isn't a requirement (all depends on what your developing), it does add a level of confidence.
As for Sun pushing Java Desktop System (JDS), they are really pushing 3 solutions:
Solaris SPARC
Solaris x86
Java Desktop System
Ultimately they are trying to push applications that are binary compatible across all three solutions. This will allow the user to decide which platform meets their needs. I believe we'll see more of the JDS systems than the others at the desktop level, but that's just an opinion.
BTW - If you have a chance to sit at one of the Sun Blade systems, don't pass it up. The system works well for geospatial applications (generally CPU/graphically intense applications).
Re:IBM vs. Sun (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:IBM vs. Sun (Score:5, Insightful)
It's about which specific two companies we're talking about.
If IBM and HP announced a deal like this, the spin would be "industry giants unite behind linux and open source". Sun and Microsoft have at least one thing in common: they are both threatened by the rise in visibility of linux/open source solutions of late.
Going back years now, Microsoft has had its eyes on the server side of the market - pushing NT against a fragmented Unix marketplace (Solaris, HP-UX, AIX, etc etc). The threat from Linux wasn't people switching NT -> Linux, but rather people switching proprietary unix to Linux in stead of unix to NT. Whether Linux (or any other open source operating system) will become a threat to Microsoft on the desktop remains to be seen, but i guess they're giving the matter some thought.
Meanwhile, Sun is having a hard time selling costly upmarket solutions to customers who keep hearing that "free" software and inexpensive hardware can deliver just as well (i'm not saying this is true, i'm saying this is what the Sun sales guy keeps hearing from his customers).
Sun and Microsoft look at the world in much the same way: it's about selling units (as opposed to IBM which sees it as selling service). This is classic "enemy-of-my-enemy" business strategy... we'll have to wait and see how it works out.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:3, Insightful)
The SCO effort is losing steam. Get ready for round two from these two. 'The enemy of my enemy' seems to be the new mantra for Sun and Microsoft.
What a bizarre, ominous TV moment. The EU decision against Microsoft probably helped this little love fest along.
Linux questions were raised by CNBC staff and brushed off by Scott and Steve flush with their new fling
No need for conspiracy... (Score:5, Interesting)
Microsoft has continuously tried to defeat Linux by forcing features on users that are incompatible with Linux, while Linux produces a workaround or a compatability layer. Well, this would be one less thing to try and workaround.
I don't think this is an advantage for Microsoft as now .NET developers can choose to use hybrid Java/.NET solutions that both do authentication depending on which language is the better choice for that task.
Re:No need for conspiracy... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Two things stand out (Score:5, Informative)
Now for the more serious matter. You better stop developing applets. They are almost dead. Look at the webstart stuff. That appears to be the direction Sun has been going for a while now. Also, I don't see how you are in any worse of a position now than before this agreement between Sun and Microsoft took place, in regards to Applets. Microsoft was NEVER EVER going to ship a Sun 1.2 or 1.3 or 1.4 or 1.5 compatable JVM. Most developers knew this for a while. The last thing Microsoft wants is for their OS to not be needed.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:5, Informative)
The current JVM is around 5MB and installs without much of a problem on Windows.
Actually, it's 15MB [java.com]
Now for the more serious matter. You better stop developing applets. They are almost dead. Look at the webstart stuff.
While WebStart is sweet, Java 1.1 (what Windows ships with) compatible applets are still the only practical way to deliver moderately complex applications via the browser to about 95% of the users. And before you say Flash - it is suitable for pretty graphics and animations, not serious things.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:3, Informative)
Not to mention your casual assertion that applets are actually useful and cannot be easily replaced by other technologies.
The grandparent to your post was correct.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Two things stand out (Score:3, Informative)
You're looking at the full SDK
Why not check before saying? It's easy - just click the link in my post.
The SDK [sun.com] is around 40MB and the website references in my first post, java.com [java.com], is the end-user Java website - it doesn't even link to the SDK. The developers' website is java.sun.com [sun.com].
Re:Two things stand out (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft Communications Protocol Program: Sun has agreed to sign a license for the Windows desktop operating system communications protocols under Microsoft's Communications Protocol Program, established pursuant to Microsoft's consent decree and final judgment with the U.S. Department of Justice and 18 state attorneys general.
Who knows what changes (i.e. restrictions) Microsoft is going to make to their protocols in the future. While the likes of Sun will have the right to use those protocols, what effect is this going to have on open source projects which don't have the ability to purchase a license?
Re:Two things stand out (Score:3, Insightful)
Don't knock your inroads -- 1.1.x ain't bad (Score:5, Interesting)
Up until now, you could release a Java 1.1.x compatible *application* (no security sandbox) without worrying about Granny Smith even having been able to spell jre when she was downloading. That's a good thing. 1.1.x is plenty to check and see if there's a Java 2 JRE laying around, and helping Granny get it if you absolutely need it.
Which brings me to point 2... Do you really *need* Java 2, or do you just want it? Admittedly Swing is a little buggy on 1.1.4 [if you include swingall.jar], which is as far as MS's VM got before the mess started, but Oracle still ships a version of 1.1.8 to power its management tools. There's very little you can't do with 1.1.x, especially once you've got the Collections API [sun.com] in the mix.
I've seen emails go across the Apple Java Development mailing list saying things like, "Our boss says we *have* to have generics, so Macs and their 1.4.x JVM are right out for development." Look, these are things you've been happily *not* using for all of Java's existence, that older code still works in 1.5, yet you're moving the whole of your development over b/c you think a new, just out of beta feature is cool? "As if source code rusted. [joelonsoftware.com]"
This settlement is great news for Java on the desktop. The longer you can keep more of your code 1.1 friendly, the longer you can deploy effortlessly on Windows. That window had almost closed, and now it's back, wide open.
And from the press release, though I'm not so optimistic to believe it'll necessarily be the case, there's nothing ruling out MS's installation of a newer version of Sun's jre by default in the future. Heck, it ain't jre's or clr's that boost an OS, it's, "Developers, developers, developers, developers." Maybe MS sees the more the merrier, and would prefer things like Sun's Mad Hatter [sun.com] not gain any special traction. Reminds me a little of AOL dropping Mozilla (which it based the OS X AOL client on as proof of concept in the Great Game of 0110 Chicken 2003) the second after MS relicensed them the IE engine.
Re:Don't knock your inroads -- 1.1.x ain't bad (Score:5, Informative)
I'd just like to point out that you can still target pre-1.5 JVMs (i.e. 1.2, 1.3, and 1.4) while still developing using the new 1.5 Java language.
You can use my free, open-source, tool, Retroweaver [sf.net] (which has "blessings" from Sun's compiler team), or you can pay money for CodeGuide [omnicore.com].
Re:Two things stand out (Score:3, Informative)
Sun doesn't "need" the cash. They have 2Bill in debts, and 6Bill in cash already. They are in a very, very good financial situation. Its part of the reason that they don't care as much about the price of the stock. Sure, 2Bill is a lot of money, but they're doing ok without it.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:4, Interesting)
Even then, they wouldn't be able to force web sites to use it - now without financial incentive. Further, most web designers actually care about cross-platform capability (even if their customers don't).
Just food for thought.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:4, Insightful)
Strange, I would expect web designers who care about that to at least follow the w3c recommendations. However, I hardly see any website that does.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:2)
Re:Two things stand out (Score:3, Informative)
1. DataDino and Aqua are both "free". Except that Aqua is only "free" for personal use, while DD is "free" for commercial. There's just fewer features activated.
2. Last I checked, Aqua only did SQL queries. DataDino works a little different. It also has the ability to run queries (in the pay version), but it can also browse the data, reverse engineer table source, display relationships, etc. Basically, they're very different products.
BTW, the price list for
Re:Two things stand out (Score:3, Interesting)
No thanks.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:5, Informative)
2. It's a complete application to access databases. You can see it here: http://www.datadino.com [datadino.com]. It requests unrestricted access from you so that it can talk over the network and stash drivers on the hard disk. If you go to Up2Go, you'll find plenty of applications that don't request extra permissions.
3. Do you know of any other technologies that actually *warn* you when launching a potentially unsafe application? Microsoft thought it was A-OK to allow embedded web controls full access to your machine. Now ActiveX controls are responsible for auto-installing web-toolbars and spyware.
Sorry I forgot about the security warning. If it really bothers you, go try an application on Up2Go that's marked 100% safe.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:5, Informative)
and why you make the statement that it sucks is beyond me (actually, its not - this is slashdot after all!). there are very good reasons and applications for JAVA, especially in the enterprise environment where you can leverage a very rich set of specifications (J2EE) to handle complex tasks such as transaction control (2/3-phase commit!) and messaging integration to name but a few. additionally scripting languages such as perl and php generally encourage a blend of application and UI logical, whereas the JSP/Servlet/Bean relationship does lend itself nicely (perhaps not as nicely as
this JAVA sucks blanket statement is generally flaunted because a) its not open source and b) the misconception that JAVA is very slow. 1.1 was pretty darn slow sure, but performance has continued to increase to a point where 1.4 is pretty snappy - even at UI-based work with SWING.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:4, Insightful)
You are running an application. Applications that do more than throw up hello world often need to be able to access your hard drive, or access your network. ActiveX controls don't even bother to warn you, they hapily take over in the name of "convinence" Now we have spyware all over the place becuase of those idiots.
Would you rather the application used your hard drive and network without telling you? I suspect you would, since you would not have thought about it at all. Yes, you would have happily examined databases never giving a though to the fact that this meant the application was accessing your network. You seem shocked because the application was honest about what it was doing, you would rather stick your head in the sand and pretend that your machine and data are safe no matter what you do.
Webstart follows good strong security guidelines, like the Java platform itself. This is a good thing. You should take this oportunity to think about what an application needs in order to function. If you trust it, you should give it that access, if not, you don't. Webstart gives you that choice and is very up front about it. Webstart cares about your security, thats why it gave you that warning. I do not know of any competing platforms that come anywhere remotely close.
You are describing... (Score:2, Interesting)
Basically, if you need the client to do some processing then you are relegatedt to Java (WebStart or otherwise) or JavaScript, .NET, or (gasp) an ActiveX (flash qualifies as an ActiveX product).
None of these methods are exactly clean, but from many user's perspective the ancient - built in to most I.E. Java 1.1 - is the most convenient.
Re:Two things stand out (Score:2)
Haha (Score:4, Funny)
Does this mean Sun will be profitable this quarter (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Does this mean Sun will be profitable this quar (Score:2)
Re:Does this mean Sun will be profitable this quar (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Does this mean Sun will be profitable this quar (Score:2)
Not really. As I understand it, MS refused to ship Sun's Java VM and Sun lost the bid to make MS ship it with MSWindows*. MS just told Sun to F off after it got it's own little thingy (.Njet)
Re:Does this mean Sun will be profitable this quar (Score:5, Interesting)
Not sure who considers your comment insightful as it is very vaque. Come on
Re:Does this mean Sun will be profitable this quar (Score:3, Informative)
Helps, but Sun is still hurting. (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Helps, but Sun is still hurting. (Score:4, Insightful)
And, with complete sympathy to those who use Java for developing applets and lament MS' continuing lack of support in their browser, Java's strength, both on the functional and marketable fronts, is on the server-side. Microsoft is still a long way from conquering the middleware/application server market.
Re:Helps, but Sun is still hurting. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Helps, but Sun is still hurting. (Score:2)
Sooo..... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Sooo..... (Score:2)
And really I don't think Windows needs to ship with it, as much as I like Java I'd be just fine with never seeing a Java app on my desktop ever again.
All you had to do was use logic..... (Score:5, Funny)
I don't know if I can believe it. (Score:2, Funny)
I can. (Score:4, Funny)
In other news (Score:4, Funny)
Microsoft agrees to pay $2 billion (Score:2)
The disparity of timelines (Score:5, Insightful)
This is almost like divorce arguments where people fight over furniture even though both sides have long since replaced the disputed furniture. When it's over, all that happens is that someone now has a couch they don't have room for.
Re:The disparity of timelines (Score:4, Interesting)
arguing about issues in court that have pretty much been steamrolled by technology
Yes, this accord is very much reminscent of the earlier settlement where for US$750 million AOL agreed to abandon its Netscape action against Microsoft.
AOL needed the cash bad and Netscape had been already practically steamrolled over by Internet Explorer (with the interesting sidenote of giving Apple $150M to pick IE).
If this trend continues, whoever buys up the failing corpse of RealNetworks will be in for some cash from MS in a year or so...
Re:The disparity of timelines (Score:5, Insightful)
1. Do anything they want, regardless of legality
2. Use that "anything" to maintain their Monopoly, thereby continuing to collect ~10 billion a year for Windows and Office
3. Drag out the resulting court action for enough time that the technology their "anything" competed against is dead.
4. Settle the court action in a way that doesn't hurt their Windows or Office monopoly one bit, but that gives what looks like a windfall to the dead technology.
5. Promise they won't do it again.
6. In fact they never will do it again (on that same technology wink, wink).
7. Start the process over with a new technology.
Pennfield Jackson recognized this and described it very well in his judgment. He called it the "application barrier to entry". He didn't give much stock to the browser that was dead, Netscape, but instead described that the process of destroying Netscape was maintenance of Windows and Office.
If Jackson were to see the EU ruling, he would immediately dismiss any possibility that media players even matter and hone in on the fact that by getting a hold on the media player market, Microsoft helps ensure Windows dominance. By dragging this out in the court Media Player will have its chance to dominate, possibly past the point of no return, to the point that MS could care less about a tiny
Sun: It's gone through the whole process. Java has been slowly dieing on the Windows platform and will be replaced by
MS has truly learned how to "lose" these court cases and dance in the street at the condolence party.
TW
Re:The disparity of timelines (Score:3, Insightful)
The Appeal (Score:2, Funny)
This is good for Sun (Score:5, Interesting)
Sun needed this cash and the break with the fight with Microsoft. But I doubt that in the long run it will be enough. Their Opteron strategy just has to pay off for them if they want to last another 10 years.
Re:This is good for Sun (Score:3, Insightful)
I very well could be (neither confirm nor deny) an IBM employee (with a silly nickname, to be sure) who is kept WAY too busy helping my customers ditch their old Solaris boxes in favor of pSeries and xSeries servers running Linux. I don't speak for IBM, obviously.
Ask yourself this question: In a typical company that has hundreds of applications and hundreds of servers, just how many of them require the supposedly "advanced features" that only Sun can provide?
The answer is t
Where do you want Java to go today? (Score:5, Interesting)
-- Len
Re:Where do you want Java to go today? (Score:4, Interesting)
If I had to take a random guess, I'd bet Sun and Microsoft will soon announce an agreement that will see Java bundled with every Windows CE device, as well.
What is the B for (Score:3, Funny)
oh goodie, goodie! (Score:2, Interesting)
Uncharacteristic Wording (Score:5, Funny)
Geological process (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Geological process (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Geological process (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Geological process (Score:3, Insightful)
They didn't "have to get rid of it" because they had too much cash. They issued dividends for the first time because of the inane tax cut on dividends. So, MS could issue millions/billions worth of dividends (which certainly made large holders (ie the people in charge of this decision) a ton of money) basically
Fine print (Score:5, Interesting)
i believe the most interesting line is:
Sun is also satisfied that the agreements announced today satisfy the objectives it was pursuing in the EU actions pending against Microsoft.
As Sun was the major complaining competitor in the EU case, this gives M$ a lot of fire support when trying to challenge the record fine. Another indication is the timing: shortly after the EU announced the fine.
Regards, Martin
EU timing vs. Sun $2 billion settlement timing (Score:3, Interesting)
My supposition is this. Sun had just proved that it could hound/"assist" the global legal system into fining Microsoft 600 million.
The $2 billion valuation figure for leaving Microsoft alone wasn't arrived at until it was clear what financial penalties Sun could (indirectly) cause to Microsoft if they persisted in pursuing them legally.
By agreeing to shell out $2 billion, Microsoft is pragmatically admitting that it would be subject to at least that many fines going for
In other words... (Score:4, Insightful)
Think about it; think about how little $2B is to MS, compared to 10 years with no harassment from Sun.
William Henry Gates III is the greatest capitalist tactician since John D. Rockefeller. I do not see that as necessarily positive. But, damn, he can sure play the game.
Re:In other words... (Score:2)
Well, according to Cringely [pbs.org], $2bn is only2 months worth of MS cash. This article does a good job of explaining why none of this makes any difference
Jeff
Re:In other words... (Score:4, Interesting)
To me, that means that Microsoft must have a strategy for if/when Open Source becomes the norm. Though it might be 5-10 years down the line, and Microsoft battling every step of the way, if/when Open Source Software becomes the norm, they must have plans to adjust their business. It'll be interesting to see how things play out...
print the whole headline please (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.yahoo.com/_ylh=X3oDMTB1c2ZmZzF2BF9TAz I3 MTYxNDkEdGVzdAMwBHRtcGwDbnMtYmV0YQ--/s/171067
Sun Settles With Microsoft, Cuts Jobs
17 minutes ago
Add Technology - AP to My Yahoo!
By MAY WONG, AP Technology Writer
SAN JOSE, Calif. - Struggling server maker Sun Microsystems Inc. reached a sweeping, $1.6 billion settlement with Microsoft Corp. and said it plans to cooperate with its longtime nemesis, a company it had branded an unrepentant monopolist.
Related Quotes
MSFT
SUNW
DJIA
NASDAQ
^SPC
25.33
4.17
10240.45
1972.22
1112.38
+0.14
+0.02
+21.63
+5.05
+3.19
delayed 20 mins - disclaimer
Quote Data provided by Reuters
Missed Tech Tuesday?
If you've waited this long, why not file online? Get a move on with E-filing tips and tax site comparisons.
The surprise agreement was accompanied by an announcement Friday by Sun that it is cutting 3,300 jobs and that its net loss for the fiscal third quarter will be wider than expected. The cuts represent 9 percent of its total work force of more than 35,000.
The "broad cooperating agreement" with Microsoft ends Sun's $1 billion private antitrust suit against the Redmond, Wash.-based software giant. Sun's complaints also helped spark the investigation that led to the European Union (news - web sites)'s recent record fine against Microsoft.
"It puts peace on the table in a big way," said Scott McNealy, Sun's chief executive, during a conference call Friday.
As part of the deal, Microsoft will pay Sun $700 million to resolve the antitrust case, which was scheduled to go to trial in January 2006, and $900 million to resolve patent issues. Sun and Microsoft also will pay royalties for each others' technologies.
"Our companies will continue to compete hard, but this agreement creates a new basis for cooperation that will benefit the customers of both companies," said Steve Ballmer, Microsoft's chief executive officer.
Sun's biggest claim -- and the main charge in its antitrust against Microsoft -- involved the Java programming environment Sun created to allow software to run on all computers regardless of the operating system.
Sun said Microsoft violated its license agreement by creating its own version of Java, thus making it less universal. Though a settlement of that case was reached, both sides ended up in court again after Microsoft said it planned to stop supporting Java.
Under Friday's agreement, Microsoft "may continue to provide product support" for its version of the software, called Microsoft Java Virtual Machine.
The deal also creates cooperation between the companies in the technical area of Web-based applications and user identity management between Sun and Microsoft servers. Sun also agreed to sign a license that will allow its software to better communicate with Windows-based desktop computers.
The agreement settles Sun's complaint over Microsoft's server communications that led to the EU's decision against Microsoft last month. That ruling also was based on Microsoft's bundling of its media player with its ubiquitous Windows operating system, though Sun did not play a role in that complaint.
"Sun is also satisfied that the agreements announced today satisfy the objectives it was pursuing in the EU actions pending against Microsoft," Sun said in a statement Friday.
The agreement is an unprecedented change in the relationship between the two companies.
Sun's McNealy often railed against Microsoft, repeatedly calling Microsoft a monopoly and its
But the anti-Microsoft rants quieted in recent months, as Sun struggled to post a profit and the companies worked at resolving the issues between them. On Friday, Sun executives s
This is the end... my only friend the end. (Score:2, Interesting)
Shit. Sun sold their soul. See the press-release: "Microsoft Support for Java: The companies have agreed that Microsoft may continue to provide product support for the Microsoft Java Virtual Machine that customers have deployed in Microsoft's products".
Dear Scott, now that you've sold your soul, have dealt with the devil: what's next? DOT-NET compatibility layers for Java? Cooperation with Unisys to provider 32-CPU servers for Windows Datacenter edition? IMHO you've just destroyed your lifework, no wonder
Re:This is the end... my only friend the end. (Score:2)
Not 2B, but 1.6B (Score:2)
Quote things properly please.
What's gonna happen in the EU now? (Score:3, Interesting)
Legal Settlements: The two companies are settling and terminating their lawsuit in the United States. Sun is also satisfied that the agreements announced today satisfy the objectives it was pursuing in the EU actions pending against Microsoft.
[ emphasis was added by me ]
I thought Sun was the primary driver behind the whole thing in the first place. What's going to happen now?
Several things: (Score:2, Interesting)
2) Collaboration on
3) Incedentally, MS will use this to kill off Java.
McNealy is a moron. He screwes up time and time again and still maintains a company. This man is truly a ledgend. I think McBride idolizes him, but McBride won't survive. He's just not that good.
And what is it with Irish dumbasses (Mc*) running tech-biz?
Interpretation of PR (Score:4, Interesting)
MS gives Sun some cash
Sun helps MS fix
Sun sells Windows on Sun Xeon and Opteron boxes
Sun hands over any good ideas they have left
Sun never sues MS ever again for their illegal business practices.
I can only hope that this news will run SUNW up high enough so I can finally get out.
burnin
Re:Interpretation of PR (Score:3, Insightful)
MS gives Sun some cash
MS gives Sun some loose change it found lying around down the back of BG's sofa.
Sun helps MS fix
Sun accepts that a single sign on is a good thing, ushers in LibertyPassport system....
Strange bedfellows (Score:4, Interesting)
I wonder how StarOffice for Windows fits into this? I doubt that it's going to be around to much longer.
This would also explain why Sun doesn't want to open source Java.
I knew it was cold today... (Score:2)
Funny thing is, this sounds alot like when Microsoft bailed out Corel... look how it turned out for them! Sun isnt exactly as strong as it once was... this is a bad sign of things to come.
EU? (Score:5, Interesting)
Sun gets $2B and both parties agree to share intellectual property
Compare this $2B with the $600M fine [slashdot.org] levied by the European Union. The difference between the two values is revealing, and can be intepreted in two ways. Either the EU judgement was yet another fudge, and Microsoft have once more got off lightly after being convicted of monopoly abuse.
Or, a large part of the intellectual property sharing is a Java payoff. In particular, Sun may have agreed to waive any complaints regarding the fact that C# is lifted from Java, in return for the large pile of cash.
Personally, I think both explainations are equally probable, and the reality is an admixture of the two.
Re:EU? (Score:2, Interesting)
Sun's biggest mistake was killing Microsoft's JVM. I work in application support and Sun's JVM sucks. Each vendor requires a different version of a JVM and older java applets are not compatable with the newer JVMs. All Sun did was convence more programmers to adopt .NET.
Sun isn't very stable as a company since their stock is now JUNK_FLAG enabled. Hopefully 2B will help their stock, but Sun is famous for screwing that up.
Sincerely,
Nathan
Remember, if IBM wrote JAVA it would be called C++
This is a good deal - no Applets included (Score:5, Interesting)
- Applets are one of the worst technologies ever wrought on the Web. ActiveX is about as bad, and Push was bad but at least we didn't have to ever use it. If Applets will now be outdated too, maybe there will be less of them. This is good for Microsoft (less Java) and for Sun (less embarassing Java).
- JVMs change constantly. The JVM I write my app for is probably not the one you wrote yours for. Rarely do people deploy Java assuming it ought to run - they specify a JVM it's intended for, and often demand you install that JVM and point to it for their software. JVMs coexist very peacefully. The point is, there's no sense in Windows shipping with a JVM - you're just going to go around it with each Java product you install anyway.
Now, is this deal is actually good for both companies? Microsoft tends to make a very poor bed partner - they give you sweaty sheets for a few months and then throw everything you own out the window. Just look at how they've turned their backs on nVidia after the Xbox partnership - and Microsoft bashers can provide many more historical examples. Sun will need a very strong strategy that leverages the benefits of the combined technology beyond Microsoft's reach if they intend to gain from this - like the way nVidia used Microsoft's money to launch into the motherboard market.Ugh. (Score:2)
My Take. (Score:4, Informative)
1. 900 Million of the award was to resolve patent issues. That's a pretty huge number (in fact it's the highest patent violation settlement I have ever seen.
2."Sun and Microsoft have agreed to pay royalties for use of each other's technology, with Microsoft making an up-front payment of $350 million and Sun making payments when this technology is incorporated into its server products." So MS and Sun have a cross licensing aggreement and SUN will pay them when the technology is incorporated.
The total award is actually 1.6 Billion. The 350 Million mentioned in the article is the first upfront payment. The cross licensing of patents is the important feature of the settlement. The collaboration is less newsworthy as it was mandated by the settlement with the DOJ.
Re:My Take. (Score:4, Interesting)
Good catch. Let's expand on this a little.
Microsoft has recently hired [ffii.org] the guy who built up IBM's formidable patent portfolio.
Microsoft recently floated a trial balloon by asking for miniscule royalties on FAT16, the filesystem that goes into the little flash memory cards in cameras, PDAs, etc.
Microsoft may pay the $900MM now, but will get back much more later (note the "Sun and Microsoft will pay each other royalties"). In other words, McNealy has opted for short-term gain instead of long-term viability; expect Microsoft to use the patents to crush Sun in a couple of years.
The patents will also be Microsoft's key weapon againt the OSS community. Here's a snippet from an article [interesting-people.org] :
Asked by CollabNet CTO Brian Behlendorf whether Microsoft will enforce its patents against open source projects, Mundie replied, "Yes, absolutely." An audience member pointed out that many open source projects aren't funded and so can't afford legal representation to rival Microsoft's. "Oh well," said Mundie. "Get your money, and let's go to court."
MSFT should just buy SUNW (Score:4, Informative)
Re:MSFT should just buy SUNW (Score:5, Insightful)
More interesting is the possible poison pill of Sun fixing .net and Sun selling windows on their opteron boxes.
You Are Open Source Or You Are Owned By The Man (Score:5, Insightful)
There is only one way to survive against an entity that controls a bottomless pile of cash. That is to NOT be for sale. Any for-profit enterprise, like Sun, is for sale and the Gates machine can buy whatever it wants.
But Gates and his horde can't buy Linux; they can't buy Open Source, they can't buy Free Software. This scares them and, in that, lies our only hope.
I smell trouble... (Score:4, Interesting)
All I'm waiting for now is to see how difficult open source implementation of scripting for Java will become.
Moderators: When in doubt, mod Interesting
what this means... (Score:3, Insightful)
What this really amounts to is that Sun is going downhill fast and Microsoft is effectively buying the assets. Sun gets a $2bn infusion of cash and lays of 3300 people. In return, Microsoft gets cross-licenses to Sun's patents. Why would Microsoft be interested in this? Because Sun has lots of patents on Java and VM related technologies that Sun could use to create problems for Microsoft's C#/.NET effort.
If it wasn't already clear to you that Sun was an unreliable partner for OSS work, this "settlement" should bring it into focus.
Looks like Sun (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's get *really* wierd... (Score:5, Interesting)
This is bad for SUNW and the shareholders, no doubt. Yes, McNeally and friends do get a lifeline of cash, but I'm sure MSFT is aware that they're merely postponing the inevitable.
What this means IMO is that SUNW is a more viable takeover target than they were 24 hours ago.
Granted, they could buy back shares with the new cash (and may want to, for many reasons), but the underlying business plan is very vulnerable. Linux is eating Solaris' lunch, and a custom hardware solution isn't cutting it today in the marketplace. (I know, Sun servers are fun to work with, quite reliable, blah blah blah. But I know a few organizations that are abandoning Solaris for Linux, if only for the price advantage.)
I'd be looking for suitors right about now, if I were part of SUNW's mgmt. team. (Or I'd flip off everyone in Mountain View and unfurl the golden parachute, depending on what kind of bastard I felt like that day.)
So here's an idea to debate: another Unix vendor [apple.com] is desperately trying to break into the server and enterprise computing market. Assuming that said vendor has the cash and the will to use it (big assumptions there, I know), would this be a worthwhile strategy to pursue?
Sun exec's are idiots (Score:3, Interesting)
Sun should have taken the money and walked away. Now, Sun is supposed to get the EU to back off, raise it's hand when the DOJ asks how signed up for MSFT's IP licensing and to a few other dances....All the while, Sun is supposed to be pushing Linux( Java Desktop ) and Solaris?????
This looks like more bad business on Sun's part. They'll be back in court or out of business and either way, Microsoft will wins because:
1) They'll have had Sun to help reduce pressure from the EU and US/DOJ
2) Distracted Sun by thinking it will get it's software to interoperate with Microsofts and Sun will lose more customers while gaining few->none.
3) Microsoft might get access to some of Sun's Java code too and that might help with some migrations from J2EE to
4)
IMHO.
LoB
Well, that's it for Sun. (Score:3, Insightful)
Sun had a good run I guess.
Secret terms (Score:4, Funny)
Oh, wait, never mind.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:2, Informative)
re:Hmmmm (Score:3, Informative)
However, even though the Register is apparently a U.K. entity, I don't think anyone believes that M$ is going to pay Sun 2*10^12 dollars. $2*10^9 is already a huge amount of money. $2*10^12 is an ungodly amount of money.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:3, Informative)
In the U.K. "billion" is 10^12. (10^9 is called "thousand million".)
Historically, yes, but the US billion is now widespread. I'm not even convinced that the old UK billion (10^12) is a UK standard anymore:
Britain and Australia traditionally employed the international usage of 10^12, but have recently largely switched to the U.S. version of 10^9.
(from everyone's favourite encyclopaedia: wikipedia [wikipedia.org])
You hide & watch (Score:4, Interesting)