Navy Jet eBayed - Some Assembly Required? 704
madmancarman writes "The world's only F/A-18 Hornet in private ownership, formerly a Navy Blue Angel Jet, is for sale on eBay. The initial asking price? $1 million unassembled, or $9 million assembled and certified airworthy 'with your choice of paint' - more info is available via a Yahoo News story. I wonder how much it would cost to fully arm it? The same person selling the F/A-18 is also selling a 1950's T-33, and claims they'll soon be auctioning off an F-16 and a Mig-29 as well. Build your own air force for fun and profit!"
Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
Even if you were to get an LOA, to fly it you'd have to get permission from the FAA to put it in the air every time you take off. So add your own private island to the total cost if you actually want to fly it without hassle.
So unless you're ex-military, you'd have yourself a $9 million lawn ornament.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Interesting)
Answer: Buy an aircraft carrier (Score:4, Funny)
Also, if you were gonna try and export the plane, what could anyone do? Just fill the gas tank up, punch the throttle and fly to eastern Siberia or somewhere. It's not like the FAA will send up fighters to chase you down. I remember hearing something about how slow they are at doing that.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
Theoretically, sidewinders can be mounted on this special purpose jet, but in doing so, the F117A loses its strengths and is forced into a role for which it is less suitable.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder what the legalities of such are. The government imposes rules on exporting software and supercomputers to other nations. Can you really buy a current military plane? Can someone buy it without a background check? Kinda scary actually...
9 million seems expensive (Score:5, Interesting)
Look at some figures for the armaments in East Europe pre 1989, and then see if you can find any stories which account for what happened to all that military gear. You may be slightly worried.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:3, Interesting)
An ex-Blue Angel told CNN that their aircraft are stripped of weapons systems before they even get them, so to answer the story poster's question: It would cost the same to arm it as it would a Cessna or anything else.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:4, Interesting)
A high performance military jet is still a military jet. They can be used for all sorts of purposes, recon being one.
I live very close to Imperial War Museum's Duxford Airfield in Cambridge and occassionaly go there to have a walk. They have a number of jet combat aircraft owned by private organizations/people.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Interesting)
I asked someone at an airshow this question, and they said a "mission" cost between $100k (just to take off and land) to $1m (to do a lot more than take off and land).
It might be substantially more expensive than that for a private person who doesn't have the huge infrastructure needed to maintain it.
I have to agree with the other poster on this thread - Larry Ellison is likely to be a seller. Or a buyer. He's one of the few people in the world who could actually afford to run it on a regular basis.
Bob Lutz is another possibility, but I don't know if he's rich enough.
D
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)
Re:then again... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:then again... (Score:5, Funny)
Well, ok, but with a toilet seat YOU supply the fuel.
Re:then again... (Score:5, Funny)
Of course in Soviet Russia....actually no, I'm not going to go there.
Re:then again... (Score:5, Interesting)
Can we let the $500 hammer, $10,000 coffee maker, and the $6K toilet seat myths go now? If you want to understand the REAL scam behind this stuff, this [igeek.com] is a good overview of exactly how the money gets wasted. For those who don't follow links, here's the explaination of "overpriced" parts:
So the "pays for Area 51" comments are probably accurate, but anyone who tries to pay their income taxes by dragging a Mr. Coffee and a used toilet seat into the IRS office and asking for two hammers in change is an idiot.Re:then again... (Score:5, Funny)
Well, that explains the looks I got.
What I wanna know.. (Score:5, Funny)
What's a GASKET SET for this puppy go for??
You'll need one in order to assemble it, yes?
I'm betting *well* in excess of $1E6.
8-P
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
I know I used to work on them in the Avionics shop VMFA-232
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
I've seen them take the catapult stroke at over 72,000 lbs.
Re: knots (Score:4, Informative)
Where did you hear that?
A knot is a nautical mile per hour. A nautical mile is one minute of latitude (1/60th of a degree of the Earth's circumference -- 6076 feet, versus 5280 feet for an English mile).
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
I was going to call bullshit, because it was always my understanding that a knot == 1.15mph (something to do with the distance of a nautical mile at the equator as I recalled), but it turns out that you are correct. According to this website [navy.mil]:
Google also says that a knot = 1.15077945 mph [google.com] or 1.85200 kph [google.com].
So I stand corrected :) Glad I researched that before opening my big mouth. Learn something new every day...
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:4, Informative)
The nautical mile [wikipedia.org] is equal to one second of arc along a great circle of the Earth, which is convenient for navigation. It isn't just some arbitrary unit.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Funny)
Betcha.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
A sonic boom is only a fixed boom for an individual observer, not a one time crack as the plane exceeds the speed of sound. Sonic booms are caused by shockwaves following along after the moving object. You'll only hear it once (unless you outrun the object and then wait for it to go by again), but it's a sustained shockwave for as long as the plane is flying fast enough.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:4, Informative)
Actually you'll hear it two or more times. Once for the leading shock wave (nose of the aircraft) and once for the tail shock wave. Very close together, and they almost sound like one boom, but there is actually two. There can also be more than two if you have sharp angles on the plane, like around where the wings are attached to the fuselage, or anywhere else that has a sharp transition.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:3, Informative)
Perhaps, but it seems there are some vets out there with money. Here's [popularmechanics.com] an interesting article about the Czech-built L39 Albatros (among others) being flown as a civilian sport jet.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
You do need an actual special reason for flying the plane, but aside from that it is quite possible for a private party to own and fly a military jet.
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Funny)
But seriously, what would such a special reason be? Airshows?
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Informative)
Instead, you now get certified, by an authorized instructor, for certain classes of experimental aircraft. The DC-F18 is part of Group IX, along with the F-15 and Mig 29.
See this FAA document for more details:
http://www.warbirds-eaa.org/news/n_8700-24.pdf [warbirds-eaa.org]
Re:Assembly AND Military Experience Required (Score:5, Funny)
I think my next-door neighbor is hiding WMD (or so my intelligence indicates) so this fighter might be just the thing for this imminent threat.
Ellison? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Ellison? (Score:5, Informative)
He said the only real restriction that was on the plane was one that is on all civilian aircraft: No supersonic flight over US airspace.
Two weks from now... (Score:5, Funny)
Government oversight? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Government oversight? (Score:5, Funny)
Too late - he's already got 'em. And I don't think you should be calling the President of the USA a "wack-job".
Re:Government oversight? (Score:4, Funny)
I would imagine that most wack-jobs would choose to save about $8,990,000 by mounting their black market arms on the back of a pickup truck instead of on this jet.
weapons usage (Score:5, Interesting)
It might be possible to jury-rig some sort of home-made pylon (at great expense) for carrying dumb bombs (simple ones that do not require any type of software control, yes even "dumb" bombs have a small amount of computerized control), but then again you could do that with any aircraft. Any aircraft can be used to drop something (crop dusters, 172's, MD-500's etc.).
Of course where the F/A-18 fundamentally differs from civilian aircraft is its performance (any civilian sport aircraft could out-turn it though), but even that is of scattered use. Maneuvering performance is only useful in air to air combat, and it would be impractical for this aircraft to be converted for usage with air to air weaponry by yourself, unless you have connections with very skilled weaponry engineers and a lot of time and money. Then again, if you have those connections and funds, you could probably buy a real military aircraft from Russia and not need this F/A-18 in the first place.
Now its performance would of course increase its kamikaze potential, but due to its size, this aircraft would probably not be much more effective in that respect than a regional or business jet. And there are plenty of those around already.
Yeah. eBay. (Score:5, Interesting)
Very cool, if i were rich... (Score:4, Interesting)
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-
German WW2 jet fighter, fought in the last weeks of the war. Top speed of 521 mph. None left are light worthy though. The BMW-003 jet engine used in it had a lifetime of 10-12 hours, unfortunately.
Yeah, right... (Score:5, Funny)
Flight Hours on Airframe (Score:5, Insightful)
3700 odd flight hours, many of Blue Angels type maneuvers. Probably some significant stress and wear on that airframe due to the type of flying. There probably was a good reason that aircraft was retired.
Also, the article should have read "F16 Fighting Falcon" for one of the upcoming aircraft, not "F16 Hornet"
Re:Flight Hours on Airframe (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Flight Hours on Airframe (Score:5, Funny)
Most commercial planes have a 20,000 operating hour overhaul schedule.
When was the last time your Delta pilot did a barrel roll?
Re:Flight Hours on Airframe (Score:4, Funny)
December 26, 2002. [cnn.com]
Re:Flight Hours on Airframe (Score:4, Informative)
Regardless, the FA-18 was undoubtedly built to take a good bit more stress than a Cessna. I can't see why the airframe would necessarily be any bit the worse for wear after so few flight hours, so long as it wasn't pushed past its limits (which I doubt the Navy would tolerate on a multi-million dollar piece of equipment like that).
Re:Flight Hours on Airframe (Score:4, Interesting)
Quite true, in many aircraft types.
slow rolls being done without the knowledge of passengers
Not quite true.
Don't confuse barrel rolls and slow rolls. A slow roll, properly executed, involves minus one G (a.k.a. hanging upside down from your seatbelt). It also involves significant sideways G during the knife-edge portions.
By the way, "slow" in "slow roll" isn't really a measure of the speed of the roll, only the type of roll. (And, roll-rate isn't a judging criterion in aerobatic competition.) The name came about because slow rolls are inherently slower than snap/flick rolls.
In a nutshell:
Barrel roll: Corkscrew-shaped flight path. Curvature of flight path during the inverted portion keeps the pilot feeling positive G force.
Slow roll: maintain a constant, level, undeviating flight path, while rotating around the longitudinal axis.
Snap/flick roll: Snap=US term, flick=UK term. Combined use of yaw and rapid pich change to cause one wing to stall (stop producing much lift). Rotation results from the unbalanced lift generated by the other wing. Rotation is usually quite rapid.
Aileron roll: Lazy pilot's slow roll. Like a slow-roll, but the flight path is a freefall-like parabola rather than a straight, level line, which makes it much easier to coordinate.
Rolling turn: Like a slow roll, but the flight path is a curved, turning, level path.
Only snap/flick, slow, and rolling turns are used in IAC sanctioned competition, other than in freestyle where anything goes,
RockyMountain.
(Competition aerobatic pilot, Pitts Special).
Re:Flight Hours on Airframe (Score:5, Informative)
Not at all - the maintenance schedule on military aviation is extraordinarily rigorous, because of the type of flying that is done and because much of the equipment (for its time) is cutting edge, at least mechanically speaking.
The maneuvers that the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds do are the same maneuvers that all of the pilots of those aircraft perform. It's just that the demonstration teams perform them as a group. My old naval aviation buddies tell me that the Blue Angels' jets actually get easier use than the regular jets. They certainly don't have to make any arrested landings or catapault takeoffs!
-h-
I wonder how much it would cost to fully arm it? (Score:5, Funny)
I would guess it would cost about 5 years in camp X-ray.
Dorn? Is that you? (Score:5, Interesting)
Pepsi will buy it... (Score:4, Funny)
Of course a Hornet is not quite a Harrier, but I dont think the guy will care.
bah! (Score:3, Funny)
Kick Ass (Score:5, Funny)
There is a fomerly privately owned MIG-23 in OH (Score:4, Interesting)
http://www.planetware.com/photos/US/OHUASF1.HTM
Note the tri-foil on the nose cone!
Re:There is a fomerly privately owned MIG-23 in OH (Score:4, Informative)
"If you are close enough to read this, the nukes had better not be going off just yet."
Correction... (Score:5, Funny)
That would be F-16 Fighting Falcon. Of course, this is Slashdot and it wouldn't surprise me if they mistakenly called it an F-16 Elbow.
Sounds like fun (Score:5, Funny)
If you have the cash...buy it assembled (Score:5, Insightful)
And to the person doubting you could get an LOA for it...that's crap. The question is would you want to fly it?
Re:If you have the cash...buy it assembled (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm an ex-navy fire control & Avionics tech for this bird (lot 12 being the last one I worked on).
What say we see who buys it and offer ourselves as ground crew? I've got a friend who's a BB stacker, just need a power guy...
Assuming, of course, that it has the AN/APG-65 radar/avionics package still onboard; thats what I can't see the Navy willing to let fall into private hands, but I also can't see the bird flying without it, it's fairly integrated.
Re:If you have the cash...buy it assembled (Score:5, Interesting)
I think we need to stick with Navy & Navy Security (Marines) on this one.
BB Stacker on the F/A-18 would be a ordnance specialist, someone who does storage, testing & mounting; I understand the USAF uses 3 or 4 separate people for the job; we never had that luxury.
So the Proper mix would be:
1 AQ/AT (for electronics, weapons control, radar)
1 BB Stacker (AO)
1 AE (Electrical)
1 Hydraulics (can't remember the rate or MOS)
1 Airframe Mech (probably not neccesary unless you are going to be buying that $4mil Brazilian Aircraft Carrier thats for sale, also).
1 Power Plant monkey to keep the engines running.
So, say 6 guys, minimum (I've been on a detached team that did it with 5, but it was only for one flight). I would want to have a experienced Fleet plane captain available to do the stuff we don't have a specialist for.
and they would only need to be A&P certified if it was all done legally; if we are just doing this for a RIAA strike, we just need it to work.
"I'll make it worth your while..." (Score:5, Funny)
You, know, I wasn't thinking of bidding on it until I saw your post. But I thought about it and maybe we can do the usual tech support thing. You know: you swing by and help me put it together. I'll provide the pizza and beer.
So, are you busy next weekend or not?
Lawn Ornament (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Lawn Ornament (Score:4, Funny)
Barbeques!
Assuming it's bought "assembled" (Score:3, Flamebait)
Re:Assuming it's bought "assembled" (Score:4, Funny)
Airborne Express?
And the top bidder is... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:And the top bidder is... (Score:5, Funny)
Odd... (Score:5, Funny)
Listed in category: Consumer Electronics > Radios: CB, Ham & Shortwave > Ham Radio > Accessories > Antennas
For a million bucks this better get good reception.
DHS Message of the Day: (Score:5, Funny)
How are they serious? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:How are they serious? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:How are they serious? (Score:4, Interesting)
The high bidder now apparently sells juggling clubs [ebay.com] for $20 a pop. He can't possibly be serious. The guy who was high bidder this morning at least had among his past purchases a pilot's carry-on bag, a wooden model of a twin engine Cessna, and some sort of "pilot training on CD" software.
Dangerous toys (Score:5, Insightful)
Men have this fascination with warbirds - both prop and jet. The problem is that these things were designed - especially the old WWII birds - to fly just this side of stable. Airspeed, altitude, and maneuverability were prioritized over forgiveness. Even well-maintained aircraft flown by pilots with many hours all too often augered in. That was the price the military knew they would have to pay to get the job at hand done.
Now we see weekend amateurs with too much money flying these things, when they should be flying Cessnas.
Re:Dangerous toys (Score:5, Insightful)
It's all about the training and discipline. Getting good education and training, and then having the self discipline to follow those things as well as the normal "rules" of aviation. In other words, just because you have a mustang and know how to fly it, that doesn't make it safe to do low-level passes with your attention diverted to things on the ground. That was true when the airplane was flown in combat, too.
The area that most new warbird owners seem to get into trouble on is fuel exhaustion. None of these birds really have large stores of fuel unless they have their external tanks with them. Kind of gets back to the discipline thing. You would want to keep in mind that unless you were an airshow pilot, the airplane just wouldn't be very useful.
I get it! (Score:5, Funny)
Accessorize baby, accessorize!
What you're really buying (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, it can be put back together. But no, it's not in 'fly-away' condition.
There are several ex-military jets in private hands. F-4's, F-86's, etc. And you can just return it to weapons capable status. *All* of the fire control circuitry will have been removed. And without that, a missile won't launch in anything other than a randowm direction, if at all.
Given the restrictions on actually flying ex-military aircraft, it would be easier for a purported terrorist to drop a case of TNT out the door of a Cessna.
Yep... (Score:5, Interesting)
Given the restrictions on actually flying ex-military aircraft, it would be easier for a purported terrorist to drop a case of TNT out the door of a Cessna.
I guess you could take out a civilian airliner or two before they manage to take you out of the sky, but hell. Despite the increased security, I'm sure there are easier ways for that still, particularly since you can sabotage landings/take-offs.
So it's basicly a bomber. What do you need? Speed? Nah. If you can reach the center of whatever no-fly zone before you can be shut down, that's good enough and they're not that big unless your target is a remote military base. Range? Nah. Just take off from the nearest feasible runway.
Payload? Yeah, I guess. But then you're better off renting a transport plane anyway. And since the plane is toast anyway, either fly it in or lock/program the autopilot and parachute out. No guidance/launch system necessary, just the navigation in any basic plane.
Basicly, this is a combat plane built to fight a war. Firepower to shoot down hostiles, range to reach enemy targets, hit fortified installations and moving targets, and return to base safely. Very little of that applies to a terrorist.
Kjella
Right next to the Camaro... (Score:4, Funny)
MIGs (Score:5, Informative)
Another thing that I remember from the article, the jet on that MIG had a really slow spool up time. This meant that when you pushed the throttle to full, it would take the engine a while before it produced full power. This becomes a problem if you have to do a missed approached or abort a landing. This meant that when you landed that MIG, you would push the controls to full throttle before the wheels touched down, just in case. This is the same thing that planes do when landing on a carrier. But it seemed strange to do for a ground based runway.
Wait, our choice of paint? (Score:5, Funny)
I wonder... (Score:5, Funny)
Selling lots of stuff (Score:5, Interesting)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll
Some sort of dirigible, $10M
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&c
2 million feet of Corning fiber optic cable, $4.4M
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&c
Warehouse, $1.1M
Current highest bidder... (Score:5, Funny)
According to his feedback [ebay.com] he purchased a 19" roulette wheel, later 2 microsoft t-shirts, a microsoft training guide, then microsoft small business server, and finally a 1979 Porche. He's now bidding on a 1-million dollar aircraft.
It just makes me wonder what this fellow is up to... and if I should be doing it too!
Current high bidder (Score:5, Funny)
Perfect Transaction, Fast payment, True Gentleman, Please enjoy your PORSCHEAAA+
and another less happy:
only 1 bid & insisted that I sell him a MichaelJordan/ XP Bus Server SW for 9.99
$gt; A winning bid is a winning bid; my friend! Period! ! ! Now ship my product!!!
Quite amusing... these people live in a different world than I. Enjoy your PORSCHEAAA+ indeed
think it 's a scam (Score:5, Interesting)
New Link (Score:4, Informative)
The price is now $29M + $9M to assemble it.
What a bargain!
Re:How much longer... (Score:3, Insightful)
It's been said the Internet is the great equalizer, a single man can be as big as a large corporation, but this levels the playing field at the nation building level.
Comment removed (Score:5, Funny)