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Space Science Technology

NASA Scientists Get Custom 24h39m-per-day Watches 553

Posted by timothy from the private-sale-or-tax-money-I-wonder dept.
blair1q writes "In order to more easily keep solar time on Mars, (or maybe just as a lark) JPL has ordered specially-modified mechanical watches for the Mars Exploration Rover Mission. One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"
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NASA Scientists Get Custom 24h39m-per-day Watches More

NASA Scientists Get Custom 24h39m-per-day Watches

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  • Useless, but... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Trillan ( 597339 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:20AM (#7960617) Homepage Journal

    Totally, completely useless. A complete waste of money.

    When will they be available to the public? And how much? I want one.

    • Re:Useless, but... (Score:5, Funny)

      by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:28AM (#7960662)
      My money says at least one will be on eBay [ebay.com] before the end of the week...

      Your tax $$ at work.

    • Re:Useless, but... (Score:2, Interesting)

      by dot-magnon ( 730521 )
      That's a ThinkGeek thing :D

      Great fun, allows you to prepare for the day Earth goes under and we all move to Mars, and you can start taking 1$ a pop for every person who wants to know what time it is!

      Hmm, would normal Earthling solar watches still work? Might set one out of business.

    • Soon... (Score:3, Informative)

      by Goonie ( 8651 ) *
      The article says that he will make them available to the public later.

      If I had a spare couple of grand (they'd have to cost at least that, given they're custom-modified mechanical watches), I'd seriously consider one.

      • Re:Soon... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Wolfrider ( 856 ) <kingneutron AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @11:06AM (#7962437) Homepage Journal
        --I wouldn't buy one, but understand the reasons for having them made rather than doing what the article poster suggested: ("One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?")

        o These are collectible items available only to NASA Mars project members (for now)

        o The creation of these watches took a lot of skull-sweat on the manufacturer's part and is a great accomplishment for him

        o It's a team-building device

        o It's a Neat Hack(TM) - RTFA.

        --That said, I wonder how these watches will hold up over time (pun intended.) IANAWatch Expert but somehow I doubt the length of a Martian second is the same as ours. A more accurate way of keeping time IMHO would be to keep the length of the second the same, and add 39 minutes worth per 24h: an "extended" 12h +19:30m watch face if you like, maybe with a colored "pie slice" for the extra time period - instead of losing seconds. FTA: ( "Past the glass cases of what looks like an ordinary jewelry store is a workshop where watches are losing 39 minutes a day." )

        --But like I said, *I* don't have the skill to do this in the 1st place, and maybe he will do a rev .2 release for the general public.

        • Re:Soon... (Score:3, Informative)

          by geoffspear ( 692508 )
          The second is an SI unit defined in terms of the speed of light in a vacuum, and does not change when you move to another planet.

        • Re:Soon... (Score:3, Informative)

          by ticklemeozmo ( 595926 )
          somehow I doubt the length of a Martian second is the same as ours

          I see what you MEANT to say, but the nit-picker in me is taking over. :)

          A second is our made up period of time, so it's always relative, and will be the same (on Mars, Pluto, Alpha Century).

          But if you mean a "second" as 1/86400th of a day (a full rotation of the planet divided into 24 equal hours). Then yes, it's not the same.

          1/86400th of the day on Earth would be 1 Earth Second.
          1/86400th of the day on Mars would be 1.0274 Earth S

    • Re:Useless, but... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Unbeliever ( 35305 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:41AM (#7960720)
      When will they be available to the public? And how much? I want one.
      US $150, available after all the Mars guys, then JPL interested guys get them. And as far as I can tell, everybody that bought one paid out of their own pocket. That includes all those nice embroidered shirts and hats you see in the press briefings. The watches were bought at the Watchmaker, and everything else at the JPL Store. Damned rules about sepending Government money! We can't even get freebies! *grin*
    • If the folks at the Mars Society [marssociety.org] have any clue at all, they'll be selling these as soon as they can get 'em.

      At the very least, they should finagle a way to get one for Zubrin.

      Me? I'm founding a company right now, cobber. Money is kinda scarce at the moment. I'll just have to hope to pick one up later.

      *sigh*

      Rustin

    • Re:Useless, but... (Score:3, Informative)

      by 1u3hr ( 530656 )
      When will they be available to the public? And how much? I want one.

      In the FA:

      After he accommodates all rover team members who wish to own a custom-made Mars watch, he will market his patented rarity to the public.

    • Re:Useless, but... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by noselasd ( 594905 )
      Useless to the public, yes. To the NASA people working with Mars, very useful.

    • Re:Useless, but... (Score:3, Informative)

      by t0ny ( 590331 )
      One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?

      Because that suggestion is stupid.

  • Didn't do what you suggested.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:20AM (#7960619)

    Because its faster strapping on a watch that works already rather than spending a bunch of hours making the linux solution work...
    • When engineers could build something without using anything that had been compiled.

    • Re:Didn't do what you suggested.... (Score:5, Interesting)

      by jacobcaz ( 91509 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @10:04AM (#7962016) Homepage
      Because its faster strapping on a watch that works already rather than spending a bunch of hours making the linux solution work...

      Forget faster, it's much more elegant. I would take a mechnical watch over a digital, PDA-on-my-arm miracle of technology anyday. I enjoy my mechnical watches, the precision that went into their design.

      A good watch is a thing that tickles geeks because it's intricate, precise, mathematical and interesting. You deal with gears and springs in the watchworks....

      I have a crystal-backed watch, you can see the mechanism running and it's simply beautiful to watch it as it winds down, ticking off the time in the process.

  • Puh! (Score:5, Funny)

    by The_Rippa ( 181699 ) * on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:20AM (#7960620)
    The Rolax I pickup up on Market Street does that already!
    • Ugh..."pickup up"

      I need to stop posting while drunk.

    • Re:Puh! (Score:4, Funny)

      by jdaily ( 35368 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @12:22PM (#7963228) Homepage
      Found in my local permanent fleamarket: Coppertop batteries under the brand names "Dinacell" and "Duraking", both made in (surprise) China.

      Duraking apparently employs someone who knows English. Dinacell isn't so lucky:

      "No mercury added... Helps protect our enviroment"
      "Dinacell Battrbies"
      "Do not charge the batter that hasn't been used up or throw it into fire"
      "Do not use it with common (carbolic) batter."
      "According to the use way of equipments to install the batter."

      And my favorite:
      "Do not decompose the batter."

      I bought a package of each for posterity.

  • Great! (Score:5, Funny)

    by mandalayx ( 674042 ) * on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:21AM (#7960628) Journal
    Great!

    Now I just need a watch to keep track of that other irregular period :)

    *duck*

  • Because (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SargeZT ( 609463 ) * <pshanahan@mn.rr.com> on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:22AM (#7960631) Homepage
    Being able to project the orbit of a decaying planet around a binary Pulsar-White Dwarf pair is not the same as writing a C++ program in an embedded enviroment. Albeit, I'm sure proficiency among the scientists in the programming languages are far higher than that of the general public, but it must be far simpler to just buy a mechanical watch that is nearly guaranteed to be flawless by nature, or work for days on making a bug free watch that is far more prone to failure.
  • 80 past 2 on April 47th. I just hope they don't fuck up the conversion, again.
  • as to why they didn't take a more high tech route...

    from the article:

    "Garo gets to say, "I told you so" to those who said it couldn't be done."

  • This IS a hack (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Simon Garlick ( 104721 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:22AM (#7960639)
    And, as a layman knowing nothing about the intricacies of a 100%-mechanical wristwatch, it sounds like a frickin' impressive one.

    Mad props to Mr. Anserlian!

    • Re:This IS a hack, no, it's a clever kludge (Score:4, Informative)

      by Nyh ( 55741 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:42AM (#7961230)
      It is not very impressive. In a mechanical watch is a balance wheel and a hair spring. The wheel and spring are oscilating (that is making a mechanical watch tick). The Oscilation period is the time base for the watch. You can change the oscilation period by altering the mass of the balance wheel (adding weight makes the oscilation period longer) or changing the spring constant of the hair spring (make it less stiff or langer for a longer oscilation period).

      The formula for the oscillation time is
      T = 2*pi*sqrt(J/k)
      with
      J = moment of inertia
      k = the spring constant.

      It looks like the watches have added weight on de balance wheel. He did a naice job but it is not earth (or mars) shattering.

      Nyh


  • This hit me. While MARS watches are a cool-nerdy thing, it is also indicitave of a secondary pattern--humans mentally divergent behavior to avoid Earthly situations, and instead focus their heads way up past the bombs and pollution into the clouds.

    Now when MARS attacks we'll know what time it is.

  • Survey says... (Score:5, Funny)

    by djupedal ( 584558 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:23AM (#7960643)
    One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just...

    Two wonder why these literal rocket scientists need to know what time it is here anyhow...

    Three wonder why these literal rocket scientists don't just have really big clocks on the wall, like at the airport...

    And four of us want to know why they can't just hire a booth babe to walk around and tell them what time it is... :)

  • again with the linux.... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by rokzy ( 687636 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:24AM (#7960645)
    "One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"

    because mechanical watches are much cooler and act as a souvenir of the project. next, why don't you go ask astronauts to trade in their mission patches for a linux box with the logo as the desktop background. don't expect to be popular with them.
    • It's kind of interesting how mechanical things seem to have much more value now than they did, say, 10 or 15 years ago.

      I remember how, in the late 80's how it was the coolest thing to have a digital wrist watch. They were a -lot- more expensive than an analog watch of similar quality.

      Now, digital watches are fairly dirt cheap. Sure, the newer ones are a bit more expensive, and they're always having some new, cool features, but...

      They're nowhere near as expensive as, say, a high-quality Rolex. Not only th

      • Re:again with the linux.... (Score:5, Informative)

        by blair1q ( 305137 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @04:33AM (#7960906) Journal
        >[electronic watches] won't last nearly as long: they'll either get wet, simply stop working, or wear out electronically long before a Rolex begins to stop keeping the correct time.

        N.B.: Among watch afficionadoes, Rolex is something of a joke, mostly because they don't keep time nearly as well as equivalently-priced watches from less-widely-marketed makers (International Watch Co. [www.iwc.ch], Breitling [breitling.com], et al), and partly because of the enormous number of counterfeit [iq-enterprises.com] Rolexen [com.com] in the wild [www.nzz.ch].

        And, in case anyone's wondering, the original Moon watch is the Omega Speedmaster Professional [213.120.97.87].

      • Re:again with the linux.... (Score:4, Interesting)

        by Ancil ( 622971 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @04:44AM (#7960940)

        maybe they want a vehicle.. that doesn't have all the electronics and sensors that 'just runs', and costs less to maintain and own in general.
        This is bull. Cars to day are paragons of reliability compared to the stone-age contraptions from 20 years ago.

        When was the last time you saw someone desperately tweaking their carbuerator to get their car started? Or pumping the gas, flooding the engine, and turning it over for an eternity trying to clear it? You turn the key and it goes.

        Don't even get me started on old, mechanically controlled automatic transmissions. These collections of flywheels, springs, valves, gaskets, and hydraulic clutches are practically works of art.. The result? A lousy transmission which breaks all the time. My friend and I drove an '85 K-5 Blazer (4x4) to Mexico and went thru two automatic transmissions in one trip, I shit you not. The first replacement didn't work, and ended up partially shredding itself. To its credit, AAMCO replaced it free of charge.

        Of course, electronic ignition and computerized fuel injection allow spark plugs to go 100,000 miles or more. Did I mention that modern emission standards would be impossible without them? My current car only needs its oil changed every 10,000 miles, for goodness sake.

    • But more importantly, they did it because ...it's a watch. Seriously, I don't know about you but I like having a normal, regular watch on my wrist. I don't want to find some PDA and press a button to see the time, I don't want some silly clock-program for my computer, and I sure as heck wouldn't want some terribly large linux-contraption strapped onto my wrist for the purpose of telling time. I don't think their decision to modify normal watches is strage at all, and it's what I would want if I were in t

  • It's time for a non-Earth based time standard (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If we're serious about heading into space, we need to develop a way of telling time that's not linked directly to Earth. Sure, we'll have conversions and such, but we need an independent time measurement.

  • Linux watches?! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bastardsquadmuzz ( 573762 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:27AM (#7960657) Homepage
    One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get asoftware programmable Linux or PalmOS basedwrist-computer


    Why must everything on Slashdot be Linux-based?! If they were going to make a watch on a different time system to normal then wouldnt it make more sense to just build a slightly different watch? Analogue you just add a few more teeth to the gears and digital shouldn't be too hard to alter. Putting Linux on a watch is just silly.

    • Re:Linux watches?! (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Fnkmaster ( 89084 ) * on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @04:58AM (#7960984)
      Because software geeks think everything needs to be solved in software? Because when you have a shiny new hammer everything starts looking like a nail?


      Not to knock Linux or anything, but if the problem statement is "I want a watch to keep track of Martian time on my wrist wherever I go", the answer is a custom circuit in a digital watch (probably an extra capacitor or two), or a slightly larger gear in a mechanical watch. I think it's pretty obvious that you can write a Javascript Mars clock for your computer in about 5 minutes. I'd like to assume that NASA already came up with that idea.

      • Java Watches! (Score:3, Informative)

        by iCharles ( 242580 )
        I think it's pretty obvious that you can write a Javascript Mars clock for your computer in about 5 minutes.

        Done and done [nasa.gov].

        There is a palm version out there, too, though, IMHO, it doesn't work all that well. Or, more accurately, it doesn't meet the standard set by this program.

  • No, one does not (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sivar ( 316343 ) <charlesnburns[@]gmail...com> on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:28AM (#7960664)
    One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"

    It is always such a relief to know that Slashdot readers know more about Astronauts should do and use than NASA engineers.
    Maybe that was a bit harsh, but have you ever seen a sophisticated piece of consume electronics, such as a Palm Pilot or laptop, taken along with astronauts on their missions?
    Electronics in space have to be able to handle conditions that your favorite PDA engineers did not exactly have in mind--even on an astronauts wrist. Notice that the watch is not even digital, and that if you think about it, it is probably not because the Engineers didn't read The Hitchhiker's Guide.
    • I thought they used ThinkPads on the shuttles? Don't know where I got it from, just one of those random pieces of trivia stored up in there...
    • Uh? The point was that the clocks where handed out to the mission control people, not to astronauts.

      I'm sure PDAs are reliable enough when they are used on mother earth.

      /greger

    • Re:No, one does not (Score:5, Informative)

      by Technician ( 215283 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:47AM (#7960746)
      If you want digital, these folks make most of the watch crystals out there. It would be a small order to get digital watches to run at any speed. I've ordered custom crystals for radio's from them. Small orders are no problem and they are not expensive.

      http://www.icmfg.com/

      A standard Tera Firma digital watch crystal frequency is 32.768 kHz.
      They are listed here.

      http://www.icmfg.com/surfacemount_crystals.html

      It would be a small task to get custom crystals made for the Martian day from them for your watch. You may need SMD tools to change it.

      At the bottom of the page gives informatin for ordering non standard frequencies.
      IMPORTANT: When ordering any non-standard crystals, please specify series or parallel resonance. If parallel, the load capacitance (CL) needs to be specifed in picofarads___ pF. All specifications are subject to change without notice.

      • Digital watch design (Score:5, Informative)

        by dtmos ( 447842 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @08:56AM (#7961632)

        Hacking a digital watch is nontrivial, especially if you have the same size and power consumption requirements as the original watch. The power budget of digital watches is austere, to say the least; typical drain of the entire watch, including oscillator, divider chain, and display driver, is 500 nA at 1.5 V, or 750 nW (a nanowatt is one billionth of a Watt).

        Watches use 32.768 kHz AT-strip (tuning fork-style) quartz crystals (like these [ecliptek.com]) as a compromise between size and low power consumption. The smaller the size of a crystal operating in a given mode of oscillation, the higher the frequency of oscillation. However, the power consumption of a digital switching circuit increases directly with the switching frequency (it is P (Watts) = CV^2f, where C is the capacitance of the switching device in Farads, V is the difference in volts between a logical 1 and a logical 0, and f is the frequency of switching in Hz). Having a higher oscillation frequency requires a longer frequency divider to divide the oscillator's output down to the required 1 Hz output, which raises the power consumption of the divider (mostly due to the higher switching frequency of the first few stages).

        Having the crystal oscillate at a binary multiple of the desired output (32768 = 2^15) makes the divider circuits especially simple (15 divide-by-two stages in series). Having a non-binary multiple would require more switching circuitry and add to power consumption.

        To hack such a system to Mars time would require either changing the crystal frequency or the divider string. Changing the divider string would require modifying the watch chip, a design task that would be relatively simple, digital design tools being what they are, but expensive and time-consuming, since a new IC mask set would have to be generated and a new lot of chips run through the fab--say, $250k and 3-6 months, if you started today. Not very desirable if you're a JPL guy funding this out of your own pocket (which is how this was done).

        The alternative is to modify the crystal frequency. AT-strip tuning-fork watch crystals are cheap because they're made in a lithographic manner not dissimilar to that of IC production--a mask is made, resist is printed over a quartz blank, the blank is etched, etc. This produces nearly-identical parts in bulk, making them cheap. This is different from the standard AT-cut crystals with which most amateurs are familiar; AT-cut crystals are individually cut and polished to frequency. Since AT-strip crystals are made in bulk, one cannot get a small lot of them inexpensively, as one can AT-cut crystals; the manufacturer must make a new mask set for the new frequency, a relatively expensive task if one will only purchase, say, a hundred crystals. Modifying the crystal frequency is less expensive than making a new watch chip; however, neither option is suitable for the volumes and price points the JPL guys were trying to hit. Ergo, the mechanical watch.

    • Some of us /. readers are literal rocket scientists.

      The fuel-burn calculations for certain kinds of Space Shuttle orbiter maneuvering are performed on (old) HP scientific programmable calculators on the shuttles while in flight (unless they've upgraded in the last few years).

      I bet my Palm V could handle launch conditions no sweat.
    • Maybe that was a bit harsh, but have you ever seen a sophisticated piece of consume electronics, such as a Palm Pilot or laptop, taken along with astronauts on their missions?

      Yes, laptops, they run Windows, and you can read about the scheduled reboots here [spaceref.com] in the status reports.

  • Recall, Arthur Dent had the same problem with his mechanical watch.

  • Why you ask? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ByronEllis ( 22531 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:30AM (#7960672) Journal
    I'll tell you why they got mechanical watches and didn't hack up a Linux watch:

    1. Generally speaking digital watches are fugly. There's no Movado Digital Watch for a reason.

    2. Commitment. This watch will ALWAYS run ~24h39m. You can give it to your grandkids. Your crap-ass programmable digital watch won't make it that far. Also, it can be made back into a 24h watch. There are no digital watch family heirlooms.

    3. A mechanical watch is a thing of craftsmanship and beauty. A watch running Windows or Linux is cute for maybe 10 minutes then its a watch that does so many other things that they forgot the "tells time" part.
  • They are being used by the NASA folks on the ground.
  • It wasn't clear (to me at least, its late and i might have missed something from the article) wheter or not NASA is chipping in and giving the Mission Support teams these watches, or if they're going to have to pay for them out of pocket. I can imagine that a master watch maker's time is expensive and so is the time of his fully staffed shop putting out a max of ten watches per day. Most of the NASA employees who might need this watch definitely cannot afford it. This would be a great 'job well done' gift f

    • Re:Anymore Information? (Score:5, Interesting)

      by CrankyFool ( 680025 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:52AM (#7960768)
      I can't clarify this, but I had an interesting experience a year or two ago that might be relevant.

      The long version is written up here [jardinescustom.com] . The short version is: A handicapped friend had an unusual and extraordinary need. We met up with a master gunsmith who was so fascinated by this new challenge he'd never had before that he swept us to the head of the line despite having weeks of backlog and spent a weekend machining this unique one-off item for us. Oh and then, because "you couldn't afford to pay what this actually cost," refused to accept money for it.

      We're (pretty much) all geeks here. We're all attracted to that challenge, to that thing we've never done before. I know I'm much more likely to do something for free (or at least below market rates) if it's interesting and unusual than if it's yet another damned system administration task. I know I'm not alone in our field, and my experience suggests that masters of the more mechanical arts are often similar in their attraction to the unusual job. Especially given the small number of people who'd be worthy of having such a watch, and the fact that this isn't being asked for for-profit, I would't be surprised if this guy cut them a break on it if NASA wasn't paying.

    • Re:Anymore Information? (Score:3, Interesting)

      by BTWR ( 540147 )
      I wouldn't be surprised if the mission leaders bought them for the crew. A few of the mission leaders were my professors and they are all very generous - (one took time out of his schedule and wrote a recommendation which helped me get into medical school - what a great guy...)

      I saw in From the Earth to the Moon that the team leader of Apollo 12 bought his 2 crewmembers and himself matching Corvettes!!! So as you can see, NASA people are very internally-generous :)

  • Because.... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by asklepius ( 456552 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:34AM (#7960695)
    it is a difficult feat of engineering. Because a mechanical watch is a combination of skill, craftmanship and beauty. Because someone said it couldn't be done. Because it is a very geeky thing to do.

    Some of the mechanical watches with complications, like a perpetual calendar (keeps track of day, date and even leap year so you never have to reset the date) that has a wheel that revolves once every four years, are truly engineering marvels. Then there are tourbillons, repeaters, etc...all great feats of skill. I would buy one of these watches just for the skill involved in designing and testing it.

    I would think slashdotters would understand doing something fairly "out there" just for the sake of doing it. And these are very useful. Granted useful for a small number of users, but useful nonetheless.

    Now, how about a Beowulf cluster of Timex Sinclairs?

  • 'Cuz Digital Sucks? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by CrankyFool ( 680025 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:41AM (#7960721)
    OK, that was a slightly trollish subject line, but I'll try to make up for it.

    I think that as geeks, we all (well, most of us -- I don't have arms, you insensitive clod!) go through the phase where we want that digital watch that has EVERYTHING. It should have at least two different clocks! And a stopwatch! And two timers! And, umm, a calculator. While we're at it, throw a little game in there (I seem to recall one of my first watches had a Simon Says game). Hell, these days, you can get a watch with a USB connection.

    Nothing wrong with that, mind you, but at some point some of us change our preferences. Maybe it's because I spend my time on computers 85% of my waking hours, but I've become fond of such things as writing letters with a fountain pen on some nice vellum paper -- Coinciding with my preference for simple, elegant analog watches. This watch on my wrist can't do much -- it tells the time, and the date, and actually has an alarm, but that's about it. It won't tell me what time it is in Hong Kong and it's not heavy enough to kill someone with blunt trauma like those big Citizens. But you know what? I like it. It's light, it's thin, and it looks pretty on my wrist.

    I don't mean to suggest there's some sort of 'maturity' that causes some of us to like analog watches -- liking analog watches isn't better than liking digital watches, just different. It's not the height of efficiency, but ... efficiency is for machines, not necessarily for people.

    If I could afford it and I had the same problem, I'd have gone for mechanical watches too. I'd buy one of these, but I'd feel like a total poseur.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Hacking the physical world is much more l33t? :-D

  • Great Think Geek gift (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nonillion ( 266505 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @03:47AM (#7960747)
    If Think Geek could get someone to make these I would buy one just for the sheer geekyness of it ;)
  • according to my watch, I'm right on time.

    Ben
  • even with the spiffy mars watches. You'd think a rotating schedule of shifts would enable them to work around the clock in different teams, 24 hours a day here on earth, without having time/schedule problems due to where the sun is on mars.
  • I [slashdot.org] was [vh1.com] wondering [eduscapes.com] why [ebay.com] they [nasa.gov] didn't use [findarticles.com] software programmable [mhhe.com] Linux [ibm.com] or [hotornot.com] PalmOS [slashdot.org] based [thinkgeek.com] wrist-computers [toonopedia.com], too!!

    Head... about... to... EXPLODE!!! [mit.edu]

  • What about calendars? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Ashtead ( 654610 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @04:08AM (#7960816) Journal
    This is cool. The geek-factor on this is very high! And having worked on some projects where they kept giving away all sorts of neat items (laser pointer, watch, various T-shirts...) I can see how this fits in well with the project. Though unless you are working with something happening on Mars, it might be a little less than practical, but as we know, that hasn't stopped anyone before.

    Now, with the Mars day being slightly longer than the Earth day and there are watches to match this, how do they reckon the days there? Here on Earth there is the system of Julian Days, which serves well for Earth-bound day-counting and marking dates of interesting events. This, like the UTC clock, seems to be very Earth-centric.

    So are anyone contemplating a Martian calendar, or some kind of linear numbering of Mars Days, so there will be a logical date for when the various Rovers and others have landed, and other interesting events?

    For all I know, such a calendar may already exist, but all I have seen of it has been various science-fiction books.

  • collectables (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Jotham ( 89116 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @04:14AM (#7960831)
    <i>"... One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"<i>

    Because in 10 years, a PalmOS watch is just a clucky, very outdated piece of plastic, while these will be collectable, a nice reminder for the team members who took part, and, well, basically cool. I say 'well done' since this was obviously oganised by a couple of the guys in their spare time.

    Since these are eventually going to be sold to the public I'd hope the team all get their's engraved and/or made unique in some way.

  • Beagle 2 (Score:3, Funny)

    by Jotham ( 89116 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @04:16AM (#7960837)
    "... Garo said. "I spent more than $1,000 trying to figure this out " damaging watches, trying different parts, just searching for a way."

    Ah, these would be the limitied edition 'Beagle 2' watches.

  • Because sometime high tech isn't the solution. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DerekLyons ( 302214 ) <fairwater@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @04:27AM (#7960885) Homepage
    One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?
    Because mechanical watches are simple, easy, and straightforward. The slashcommunity thinks in terms of 'cool hacks'. Real working engineers prefer things that require little thought and just work.

    Besides which, modifying mechanical watches is a cool hack, although old school. Maybe you kids wouldn't approve, but guys like the TMRRC would want one so they could take it apart and do it themselves.

    More disconcerting is the quote from the article;

    Garo finished Doudrick's watch first and after initial testing, discovered that it was off by no more than ten seconds in 24 hours Earth time " an amazingly accurate feat for an entirely mechanical watch.
    One hopes the amazement is on the part of the JPL staffer, and not on the part of the master watchmaker. Such accuracy used to be commonplace on all but the cheapest mechanical watches. Or maybe since most market watches (as opposed to chronometers) are marketed for fashion rather than accuracy nowadays, it is astounding for a modern watch.

  • Next week's ThinkGeek Ad... (Score:3, Funny)

    by ducomputergeek ( 595742 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:08AM (#7961010)
    Get your offical "Mars time" watch replica for $99 today at thinkgeek.com...

  • 360 degree Panorama (Score:3)

    by Quirk ( 36086 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @05:20AM (#7961036) Homepage Journal
    I hope everybody has had the chance to view the panorama shot [nasa.gov] composed of somewhere around 225 photographs.

  • Hamilton Levitt-Mentzer Mars Clock (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Lagrange5 ( 267948 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:01AM (#7961129)
    This site [jps.net] has a description of a Mars clock built by Ralph B. Mentzer of the Hamilton Watch Company, ca. 1954.

    It's a fascinating timepiece, with a 16-inch diameter, a 24-hour face and almost 400 working parts. It could even keep track of the difference in calendar measurements between earth and Mars.

    However, apparently only two of these clocks were ever built. One is at the Smithsonian Institution and the other resides at the National Watch and Clock Museum [nawcc.org] (and the clock seems to be visible on this page [nawcc.org]).

  • Other ideas for Martian timekeeping... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SRCShelton ( 9180 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @06:58AM (#7961286) Homepage
    I've always thought the system proposed by (Kim Stanley Robinson [amazon.co.uk]) in the Mars Trilogy books was kinda neat:

    All clocks stop at midnight, wait 40 minutes, then tick over to 00:01

    (Yes, there are practicality and "yes, but *WHAT'S the TIME*??!?" issues, but I still reckon it'd be cool)

  • Oh Man! I didn't realise! (Score:3, Funny)

    by tiled_rainbows ( 686195 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @07:03AM (#7961305) Homepage Journal
    For my wife's birthday recently, I spent a whole lot of money on a watch. Then she had me take it back to the shop becuase it was losing about forty minutes a day.

    I could have just told her it was a Mars Watch, but instead I get it "fixed" to show plain old boring GMT. Darn.

  • There could be a rational reason for the watches (Score:3, Informative)

    by basingwerk ( 521105 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @07:51AM (#7961433)
    There could actually be a rational reason why these watches might improve mission reliability, and thus save money. One of the main problems with earth ground system operations is the ability of the ground staff to operate in several time zones at the same time. Although the ground system is (typically) on ZULU (or GMT), their shift patterns run on local time, and often the planning cycles (passes etc) operate at on offset from GMT. An example is the ROSAT day, or the RADARSAT planning offset, which is set off 19 hours later than GMT, thus the start of the RADASAT day is at GMT 19:00 and extends 24 hours to 19:00 the next day. Further, the antennae are scattered around the globe, and the antennae ground staff also operate their shift patterns on local time (they have a life outside the blockhouse) but run passes on ZULU time. These can be quite confusing, and a lot of planning screw ups (running passes on the wrong day etc) can result. If this gets out of hand, the wrong command can get sent at a bad time and that's that, everybody is suddenly unemployed! As Mars rover is (essentially) an automated MARS based ground system, perhaps these watches are an attempt to get better organized? Or maybe they are a status gimmick.

  • It's all simple politics... (Score:3, Funny)

    by i8a4re ( 594587 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @09:43AM (#7961886)
    Since this is a government agency, they have to seek out bidders and give everyone an equal opprotunity to produce this custom watch. The bidder who can make the most complicated watch with the most parts made in the most congressional districts and states and initially within budget gets the contract. Nasa spends more money, but evenly distributes amongst congressional districts. This makes congress happy and Nasa gets more moeny to spend on overpriced, useless shit.

  • They're rocket scientists. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by TwistedGreen ( 80055 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @09:43AM (#7961887)
    One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?

    Maybe it's because they've got better things to do with their time?

  • Why not? My question is "why?". (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Transcendent ( 204992 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @10:18AM (#7962108)
    One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?

    Because that would be pointless?

    All they had to do was change a few gear ratios instead of actually figuring out how to use linux, or getting an SDK for PalmOS, then actually writing the program and hope there's no bugs in it.

    They're rocket scientists... not script kiddies who lavish in anything that is related to linux. (Go ahead, call me a troll... you know it's true)

    The real question should be why they even needed to do it. It's not like knowing the time on mars is a huge deal.

  • Accuracy (Score:3, Informative)

    by Greyfox ( 87712 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @11:42AM (#7962779) Homepage Journal
    I'm willing to bet that devising an accurate PDA based solution would cost as much or more than having a good watch maker design a highly accurate mechanical solution. How many seconds of jitter a day does your palm have? I've seen some of my older models gain or lose a minute or two a day. In the historical past computers haven't been all that good at keeping time either unless you wanted to shell out for a high precision card. I'm not sure if that's still the case since I use NTP to keey synchronized.

    Keep in mind that these guys need much more precision than your average joe, kinda like the railmen back in the day. It's not like they can tell the rover to get up at eleven-thirty-ish, wander over to that dune and shoot us back an e-mail. If they're a few seconds off they'll end up talking to the elvis-face instead of the mars rover.

  • One wonders why these literal rocket scientists didn't just get a software programmable Linux or PalmOS based wrist-computer and hack together a Mars-time display application into it?"

    Because they're keepsakes. Besides, mechanical watches are durable. When the hero sets the bomb that collapses the mouth of the only cave that leads to the underworld in which the Martians are preparing their invasion force, you can be damned sure that he'll be glad he's got a watch that survived all those pulse weapons and electric torture lassos and whatnot, so that he's quite sure he's got three seconds to blast off before the whole planet goes Kaboom!.

    Or whatever.

    More importantly, they're collectables. All the astronauts are given hardware that they get to take home after the mission as a keepsake. I mean, if these guys are going to make the only form of travel more dangerous than ValuJet for like three months each way without peanuts solely for the sake of our curiosity, then we can god damned well buy them a watch.

  • Why not a palm pilot application? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by raytracer ( 51035 ) on Tuesday January 13, 2004 @02:32PM (#7964487)

    Far out in the uncharted backwaters of the unfashionable end of the western spiral arm of the Galaxy lies a small unregarded yellow sun.

    Orbiting this at a distance of roughly ninety-two million miles is an utterly insignificant little blue green planet whose ape-descended life forms are so amazingly primitive that they still think digital watches are a pretty neat idea.

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