Joining the Global Village 175
Sandeep writes "This article tells of an initiative in rural India, to provide internet access for farmers. The initiative is called e-choupal, a name taken from the Hindi name for village square. An incongruous image when you consider they still use bullock carts for carrying the produce..."
The internet? Very useful ... (Score:4, Informative)
Re:The internet? Very useful ... (Score:5, Insightful)
I'm I the only one who finds it hilarious that you question the usefulness of the Internet for these farmers and yet provide links to web sites providing information that you feel is more germaine. I think you've just answered your own question about whether the Internet is useful or not.
Re:The internet? Very useful ... (Score:1)
He was being ironic, Gumshoe ;)
Re:The internet? Very useful ... (Score:1)
Whereas the farmers who still don't have an internet connection will still be completely clueless as to even the existence of
Me think's your a triangle (Score:2)
The man was suggesting that if they're to have access to the net, they may as well get some utility out of it.
He was also being sarcastic as evidenced by his posting of links here were very few indian farmers are likely to view them.
I might suggest you buy a little more ram for 'upstairs' and perhaps a processor that supports MMX instructions in hardware.
Re:The internet? Very useful ... (Score:5, Insightful)
(of course, this is
The aim is not to provide "internet access". The aim is to provide farmers with live prices, so that they can sell accordingly. A similar project is on at IIT Kanpur (Digital Mandi -- see http://www.iitk.ac.in/MLAsia/digimandi.htm)
The rationale is that, because (a) farmers (i.e. producers) are not aware of what the current market price is, and (b) $BROKER is going to try to maximize profit by any means, the farmers usually end up selling there wares for waaaaaaaay less than the current market price. The diff is such that market price is anywhere between 2 to 5 times the price the farmers get.
Considering how many farmers have very little cash to spend (even by Indian standards), every extra buck per kilo they make is A Good Thing (tm)
[[ Yes, I am an Indian, living here for *quite* some time, and am aware of these problems despite reading
Re:The internet? Very useful ... (Score:2)
Re:The internet? Very useful ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Did you RTFA, or did your trollbox just cough this up? "West", my ass. It is an Indian company doing this. Don't you think the locals there have some right to use this technology as they see fit?
Re:The internet? Very useful ... (Score:2)
Do you think that they would do it if it was a waste of money?
I know it is in
NYT Article!!! (Score:4, Funny)
e-chopal needs a new web designer (Score:1, Funny)
Couple of things: (Score:1, Insightful)
2) I think I can speak for a significant portion of the
can't view link (Score:1)
Re:can't view link (Score:1, Funny)
Re:can't view link (Score:2)
quickly followed by new laws... (Score:2, Funny)
Why is it in Hindi ? (Score:1)
Anyway it will take more than this to get india online to the grass (Uhh...crop) roots
Re:Why is it in Hindi ? (Score:3, Informative)
(a) The "official" national language
(b) Everyone here has a rudimentary knowledge of hindi, and can therefore understand to a certain extent
(c) Support for Indic languages is not yet complete, Hindi is one of the better supported ones
Take your pick.
(YES, IAAIII)
Re:Why is it in Hindi ? (Score:2)
Re:Why is it in Hindi ? (Score:2)
*looks around* First I have to learn linux to keep up with you guys, then some form of programming just to understand half of what goes on here at slashdot... not to mention all those years studying astrophysics, chemistry, mathematics, robotics.... and now I discover that I will have to learn hindi as well! Oh, the ever-changing face of the nerd. At least we all still have pimples.
Re:Why is it in Hindi ? (Score:1)
yes... time to make some money (Score:5, Funny)
Re:yes... time to make some money (Score:1)
Here's the story... (Score:5, Interesting)
But seriously there are great things that small farmers can do with connectivity, it has a great possibility to increase these peoples quality of life.
Fo those who do not wish to deal with the sign-in process...
Here it is:
Indian Soybean Farmers Join the Global Village By AMY WALDMAN
Published: January 1, 2004
TIHI, India -- At least once a day in this village of 2,500 people, Ravi Sham Choudhry turns on the computer in his front room and logs in to the Web site of the Chicago Board of Trade.
He has the dirt of a farmer under his fingernails and pecks slowly at the keys. But he knows what he wants: the prices for soybean commodity futures.
A drop in prices on the Chicago Board, shown in red, could augur a drop in prices here, meaning that he and fellow soybean farmers should sell their crop now. An increase there argues that the farmers should wait for prices to rise.
"If it goes up there, it goes up here," Mr. Choudhry said. The correlation is rough but real. Real, too, is the link between farmers in rural central India and around the globe, thanks to a company's innovation.
The concept is the e-choupal, taken from the Hindi word for village square, or gathering place. The twist is the "e": providing a computer and Internet connections for farmers to gather around. Mr. Choudhry supervises the project for Tihi and several nearby villages.
E-choupal allows the farmers to check both futures prices across the globe and local prices before going to market. It gives them access to local weather conditions, soil-testing techniques and other expert knowledge that will increase their productivity.
Nonprofit organizations have tried similar initiatives but none have achieved anywhere near the scale that e-choupals have. There are now 1,700 in this state, Madhya Pradesh, and 3,000 total in India. They are serving 18,000 villages, reaching up to 1.8 million farmers.
As a result, say those who have studied the concept, the company behind e-choupals, ITC Ltd., has done as much as anyone to bridge India's vast digital divide: most of its one billion people have no access to the technology developed by some of their fellow Indians, whether in Bangalore or Silicon Valley.
E-choupals may offer a model for all developing countries.
"It is a new form of liberation," C. K. Prahalad, who led a case study on e-choupals for the University of Michigan Business School, said of the transparency and access to information they give farmers.
More than two-thirds of India's people still depend on agriculture for their livelihoods. With little chance of the huge manufacturing boom that has employed many rural poor in China, the challenge is to increase farmers' productivity.
Even more tantalizing, ITC now has the means to reach into some of India's 600,000 villages, where 72 percent of the people live and where the greatest potential markets lie. Most businesses never venture to an area with fewer than 5,000 people, said ITC's chairman, Y. C. Deveshwar.
Eventually the company expects to sell everything from microcredit to tractors via e-choupals -- and hopes to use them to become the Wal-Mart of India, Mr. Deveshwar told shareholders this year.
"We are laying infrastructure in a sense," Mr. Deveshwar said. Sixty companies have already taken part in a pilot project to sell services and goods, from insurance to seeds to motorbikes to biscuits, through ITC.
By overcoming the infrastructure problems that have hampered progress in India's villages in the past -- ITC decided to use satellites and solar panels, for instance, to sidestep the state's shaky power supply and lack of phone lines -- and by offering full Internet service on the computers, the company has instantly broadened villagers' horizons.
"We never dreamed of this, that our vi
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Your not special if you CODE! (Score:1)
YUP! I think in the future, the only real computer jobs will be networking.
what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:3, Interesting)
What will happen to all these people when some African, East Asian, or emerging former Soviet republic offer the same services with the same quality at a lower cost.
ON the other hand, India should definitely do something to feed most of her population, tear down the caste system (yeah, India may be the most populous democracy in the world, but a very unjust, quite corrupt one), and stop spending so much money on the more than morally unsound purpose of eventually blowing Pakistan to pieces and try to challenge China as the local superpower. This could also be applied to Pakistan and other countries in the area.
Many will call me a troll, but the truth is that is sad to see such a wonderful people suffer so much under the hands of such corrupt, incompetent leadership.
As many Non-gov agencies will tell you in order to help someone you have to feed him and provide him with clothing and shelter first. Then you can start thinking about an education.
Re:what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:2, Insightful)
This is an initiative by a private company, with the aim of making money, and they are making it. If it was a waste of money, they would not do it. They are using this e-choupal as a place to allow people to get information, and increase customer(read farmer) footfall, so they can sell them seeds, tractors etc.Even the providing of information part is run as a business in the franchise model.
As, for the benefit
Re:what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:1)
Re:what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:2)
Re:what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:2)
Re:what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:3, Insightful)
My cynical and distrustful self would think it only natural for the non-gov't agencies (charities, food programmes, medical aid organisations) to say this, because once these people are able to provide for themselves, they will no longer need said organisations. I know I am being a bit too cynical here, and such organisations d
Re:what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:1)
you're right there!!!
I should've thought of it. I guessed that having grown up in the Canary Islands, a European site a mere 90 miles from Africa, and having seen the effects of non-democratic govt combined with hunger and repression, as it's the case of most African states, so near clouds my reasoning a little bit.
I used to think that access to info, such as the internet, would soon translate into more aware people that would afterwards bring some sort of change in their societies. The experiences
Re:what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:3, Interesting)
The Internet access provided to these Indian farmers servers a much more mundane purpose: it is supposed to help them to be better farmers.
Information is not the main driver for change, prosperity is. Poor and hungry subjects are easily controlled, whereas relatively wealthy people are much less inclined to aid a dictator or sit idly b
Troll Eh? I will bite! (Score:3, Insightful)
Please, for the millionth time, anytime you see another article about India, dont go all mushy eyed about its billion residents going hungry to bed every night, the cruelties of its caste system, blah..blah and blah. These things will change as time moves forward. It wont be a revolution, more like a natural progression as the old habits die, and the old system dies along with it. The young people of this country are as progressive and liberal like the rest of their count
Re:what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:2)
Re:what's the use of internet with an empty belly? (Score:2)
Change (Score:5, Interesting)
A friend of mine went to several Indian villages to do a documentary and tells me that there are many projects initiated by the government to bring modern ideas and methods to villages that have functioned, more or less, the same way for hundreds of years.
These projects are bringing new ideas and ways of thinking to the villagers (like gender equality), but at the same rate, many of the young people of the village are being encouraged more and more to leave the country and find their fortune in the city.
Now will this internet-access for all encourage young people to stay in the country, doing all of their work and research online; or, will this extra exposure encourage more to leave? I'd be interested to hear others' views on this.
Re:Change (Score:2)
Eventually, with the introduction of new farming methods, fewer people are needed to do the same amount of work. The displaced people will have to go somewhere, do something.
The double-edged sword of leaving the farm (Score:3, Interesting)
At some level, this type of information access may accelerate the flight of the young from rural areas. Increasing the productivity of Indian farmers means the India needs fewer farmers. This has good and bad effects.
On the one hand, increasing the profitability and produ
We may all soon be on the farm (Score:2)
Re:We may all soon be on the farm (Score:2)
Good point! You are right that engineering/programming jobs will flow into urban areas because of the high concentration of educated people and that educated people will flow into urban areas because of the high concentration of high-paying jobs. Yet telecommuting enables many other types of
Money always a barrier (Score:1, Redundant)
Re:Money always a barrier-- RTA (Score:3, Insightful)
In the great
This is not a govt. initiative. This is an initiative by a private company who wants to become the wall-mart of India for the rural areas. So, they figure they will open something call "e-choupal", which will serve as an information center and get the "customers" to visit. Of course they run it like a franchise model, they provide the equipment, trai
Re:Money always a barrier-- RTA (Score:2)
http://www.mahindrausa.com/About/history.a
Re:Money always a barrier-- RTA (Score:1)
Re:Money always a barrier-- RTA (Score:2)
And, believe me Indian farmer(for that matter small farmers everywhere even in USA) knows the value of money.
Re:Is that what India really needs? (Score:1)
Birthrates in most of the developing world have been dropping for some time, just like the plummet in the developed world over the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. Their rate drop is happening at a better pace too, since a lot of the things which started lowering it in the first place - birth control, the precedents of industrialization, a growing middle class, etc
Re:Is that what India really needs? (Score:2)
Re:Is that what India really needs? (Score:2)
In an agricultural society, you can use children as "slave labor." Even in the US, farm children do not have much child labor protection. So you have more children. Population inctease.
In a society where investment in ed
great (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:great (Score:3, Insightful)
>>traditional way of life, so that they can download >>pornography?
It is an interesting question... A friend of mine come back from a half year trip for some comparative study about rural development in the Third World, in which he teamed up with the Oxfam volunteers in many parts of China, India, and Vietnam. The conclusion was the more the villagers know about the external world (but cannot join it), the more desperate they are.
For e
Re:great (Score:2)
India and 2010 - What may come .... (Score:1, Offtopic)
India is going to host the Commonwealth Games 2010 [cwgdelhi2010.com] (72 Countries, including Canada) in New Delhi, after having won over Hamilton's (Canada)desire to do the same. [hamilton2010.ca] The hosting of the games is going to bring about some major and positive changes to Delhi, and the Sports program in India. And one of the selling points was that the Bid Committee said India should have a chance to demonstrate the State of IT in India on the World Stage ... [cwgdelhi2010.com]
Next on the agenda is to bid for the Olympics 2016 ... [gamesbids.com] Just imagine
Re:India and 2010 - What may come .... (Score:1)
I hope they come up with nice live-update statistics/information screens like the IBM screens at the last Wimbledon [ibm.com]!
Do they use e-donkeys? (Score:1, Troll)
Bullocks ? Why not sneakernet ? (Score:2)
We use a USB memory stick as a physical carrier for internet data - Email and (cached) web access. Check it out at wizzy.org.za [wizzy.org.za] - based out of South Africa, but with an open-source CD download at the site above.
Our main carrier protocol is UUCP [uucp.org] Cheers, Andy!
Finally Population control! (Score:1)
What's wrong with bullock carts? (Score:3, Insightful)
An ox can go through narrow streets and flooded fields. It can pull. It can carry. Its requirements are easily found and inexpensive. A simple cart can be built and maintained by one's self and local craftsmen with no need for dealer-authorized training nor expensive tools which might only work on one kind of cart.
And how many people ever get run over by ox carts? Do you have any idea what happens to an automobile's driver and passengers after they've rounded a blind corner and hit somebody in a remote Indian village?
BULLOCK CART HAS THE BEST NAVIGATION SYSTEM (Score:1)
The Wired Jungle (Score:3, Interesting)
(I was putting together a submission for Slashdot, but never got around to it, and now I can't find my notes. Argh!)
Some might think that tossing the Internet (5 whole laptops!) would be a violation of some sort of nanny Prime Directive and bad for them.
Sadly, they're already in a bad way with the common problems of marginalized indigenous cultures shoved off their land: alcohol, suicide, solvent abuse, etc. I doubt five computers and Internet could make things any worse!
And lose them too, fsck, fsck! *sigh* I had some good points and links. I'll go complete my morning coffevolution and if I find them, I'll submit it.Great! (Score:2)
I don't see what's "incongruous" about it (Score:2)
A high-tech information infrastructure doesn't necessitate US-style agriculture, US-style food consumption patterns, or US-style city planning. China and India are now doing much of the manufacturing that the US used to d
Western Civilization: (Score:2, Insightful)
Not everyone's idea of civilization is the same. People in India may wonder how ass-backwards we are here, when they learn that we are using gas-guzzling air-polluting machines to transport our produce to the market.
Similar project for all of africa and asia (Score:1)
Argh! (Score:3, Insightful)
Now, please allow me to rant.
Who the f*ck are you to sit in your comfy little chair (in, most probably, your parents' basement) and pass judgement on these people 9,000 miles away (from US)? Don't you think that the people in India care about poverty just a little bit more than you do? If the poverty in India does bother you so much, then sell your earthly possessions, take the first flight to India that you can get, and go live in a village and help them out, OK? Don't sit around outside, trying to lecture them.
India is not the US (nor is it UK, Australia, France, Germany, etc.). They have their own problems, and want to come up with their own solutions. LET THEM EXPERIMENT! Don't pass judgement; if you can help, then, by all means, please do so; if not, then S.T.F.U.!
Assuming you naysayers live in the USA, here are some statistics for you (from this site [oneworld.org]:
So, please tell me: why should the US be spending any money on weapons, Internet, Reality TV, etc. etc. when there is so much child poverty? Are you running around in your neighborhoods, telling poor folks not to spend any money on gifts/computers/TV, until they have gotten out of poverty? If not, then please start lecturing in your neighborhood first, before lecturing some people 9,000 miles away.
Thank you.
Re:Argh! (Score:2)
For some definition of the proverty line... I've known a few who lived below the poverty line. Somehow they still had a TV in the house. Somehow their parents still found money for drinks at the bar... I've even known parents who choose to live below the poverty line despite the ability to make more money because time with their kids was worth more to them than money. (Not many) No it isn't easy, but you can live just fine on a lot less than the poverty line if you get your prioritys straight. I woul
Re:Argh! (Score:1)
What is it with michael . . . (Score:1)
Why is failure to produce so attractive to him ?
No other editor posts so many stories dealing with technology X being introduced on a very small scale to shithole country Y.
Synapse (Score:1)
Here's what they are doing in Alaska Villages (Score:2)
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:5, Insightful)
we americans should not allow this to happen.. we could lose our trade advantage
Don't want it to happen? Then do something about it. Fix up your own house instead of deciding to tear down the Joneses 'cause they're committing the crime of hubris by catching up.
Enough people here take the free market as a religion, the sole and primary characteristic of anything good, that I'd expect people to keep that in mind. They usually do in the business world. But ohhhh no, as soon as foreign countries - especially those "subhuman" ones lumped under the title of "Third World," as though Nicaragua, Brazil, Afghanistan and India all belong to a single, undifferentiated bloc of squalor - then they must be foulest evil fit only to be destroyed if they approach our sacrosanct grandeur.
So what the hell is it with that? Is America's hegemony so shaky that you can't stand the thought of another major country getting its technology base built up without wetting yourselves in abject terror?
You don't like it? Then go improve your own country, culture, and economy. Then, maybe you'll have something worth boasting about should you stay on top because of it. Another country pulling ahead worries me a lot less than one country deciding to keep the rest of the world down to protect their precious egos.
If you can't hold an advantage on the world stage by continuing to produce better technology, by managing a better economy, et cedera, then you bloody well don't deserve to.
Ugh, watch me forget to preview (Score:1)
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:2, Informative)
No issue is quite as one sided as you make it appear.
This is true. I wasn't simply replying to the AC's post (which wasn't flamebait; slashdot needs a "-1, Stupid" mod though) as much as that general tendency that I've seen directed towards not just India, but all the developing nations, and not just from Slashdot, but from nearly every forum or discussion-y site that I keep an eye on.
Manifest destiny is alive and well, only writ larg
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:2)
That's because it's human nature to want to see YOUR group succeed at the expense of another -- Tribalism/Nationalism is alive and well beneath the facade of civilization. It really does boil down to the evolutionary psychology of selfish genes.
I don't pretend to be above that, subconsciously, but consciously I truly think that the more int
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:2)
It's great to hear of another Singularitarian, especially around here, though. :)
The more the merrier: USA needs equal partners (Score:2)
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:2)
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:1)
I see people realize things like this so very rarely that when I do see it, I briefly have to figure out whether they really understand, or whether they're just being sarcastic. That depresses me. :P
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:2)
It killed tens of millions in China, and hobbled both China and India until about ten years ago when people there woke up to economic reality and began free market reforms.
In 40 years, China and India will be as rich as South Korea does today.
Re:india is going to be real strong: something to (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't get it. Why is it whenever countries like India start coming up some people in west like you get scared?
I think whenever people talk about fall of western civilization they make two serious assumptions which are wrong--
a)West has always been rich and powerful. FALSE
Figures for 1750
share of world manufacturing output China(32%)+ Old India(24%) ==56%
share of Asia == 80%
share of west = 18%
share in word population
west = 20%
asia = 60%
So, Asia outmanufactured west even propotional to it's population, and, this was true for pretty much all of the known history. Asia being even wealthier as you go back in time. Why do you think columbus wanted to discover india? for its famed money and riches. Ofcourse he ended up discovering America, and called the natives Indians which frankly causes so much confusion.
After 1750, bristish de-industrialized India,and it stagnated(for e.g. never in the recorded history were there any famines in India before 1800s. They cut off thubs of all the textile weavers becaus ethey couldn't compete-- simple solution no thumb no production etc. etc.), and China's wealth fell after 1800s.
Read this book:
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.
and this article for the numbers
http://www.rediff.com/news/1998/jun/08ra
b) Rise of India+China means fall of west FALSE.
This is not a zero sum game. With world trade both west and asia will end up getting richer.
Re:"they" (Score:1, Informative)
Re:"they" (Score:1)
Re:"they" (Score:2, Informative)
Come on, atleast get your religions straight in your crappy troll post.
Re:"they" (Score:1)
Perhaps some people will learn something from my post. It annoys me a lot ever since 911 when I hear people talk about "the Indian guy at the corner store" and call him a "fucking Arab" or "sand nigger" or what not.
Not that those would be appropriate things to call some one who actually was an Arab/Muslim but most of the people in the US think that everything below Russia, to the e
Re:"they" (Score:3, Informative)
they still use bullock carts for carrying the produce...
And why not? Have you priced tractors lately? If you don't have alot to pull or plow, an appropiate technology.
Re:"they" (Score:1)
Re: appropriate technology (Score:2)
won't somebody think of the children!!!
Re:"they" (Score:3, Informative)
Tractors are very much in use in India and in very large numbers --
Infact India is the world's largest tractor market, with the largest tractor company in India, and 4th largest in the world Mahindra holding a significant share of USA tractor market
See here, where I have quoted from--
http://www.mahindraworld.com/mahindras/fa