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Speex Goes 1.0, Xiph Goes 501(c)3 128

Posted by timothy from the free-as-in-easy dept.
Emmettfish writes "Hey, folks! We've posted an announcement this morning; Speex (the free and open voice compression codec by Jean-Marc Valin) has gone 1.0, and the Xiph.Org Foundation is now officially recognized as a charitable non-profit organization by the IRS. Donate to help us write more Free Software and get a tax break. Thanks!"
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Speex Goes 1.0, Xiph Goes 501(c)3 More

Speex Goes 1.0, Xiph Goes 501(c)3

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  • Speex Goes 1.0... (Score:5, Funny)

    by paulcammish ( 542971 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:00AM (#5582629)
    Speex Goes 1.0, Xiph Goes 501(c)3...

    .... I go: "wha?"

  • hmmm (Score:2, Troll)

    by Miguel de Icaza ( 660439 )
    i'd only briefly read about this project before, but just skipping over the links in the article and thinking to myself it would be surprising if these guys could pull a technology like this off without running into a patent problem or two -- anyone know?

    certainly ogg to me is a file format/stream protocol that is treading on corporate egg shells :^)

    • Re:hmmm (Score:5, Informative)

      by arvindn ( 542080 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @10:07AM (#5582856) Homepage Journal
      From your fake username, url and sig, I assume you are trolling. However, might as well clear up a point.

      From the speex website:

      Position regarding patents

      The goal of Speex is to provide a codec that is open-source (released under the LGPL) and that can be used in open-source software. This implies that it also has to be free from patent restrictions. Unfortunately, the field of speech coding known to be a real patent minefield and to make the matter worse, each country has its own patent laws and list of granted patents so tracking them all would be next to impossible. This is why we cannot provide an absolute warranty that Speex is indeed completely patent-free.

      That being said, we are doing our best to keep away from known patents and we do not patent the algorithms we use. That's about all we can do about it. If you are aware of a patent issue with Speex, please let us know.

      Normally there shouldn't be any problem when you use Speex. However for the reasons explained above, if you are thinking about using Speex commercially, we strongly suggest that you have a closer look at patent issues with respect to your country. Note that this is not specific to Speex, since many "standardized" codecs have an unclear patent status (like MP3, GSM and probably others), not to mention the risks of a previously unknown patent holder claiming rights on a standardized codec long after standardization (GIF, JPEG).

      Strangely I got a 404 on their website, but got the above info through the google cache [216.239.33.100].
      • cheers. I am campaining to raise awareness of patent issues in OSS especially the growing problem of naivity when developers knowingly and flagrently violate patents hoping the holders will be perturbed from legal action by threat of a wave of negative PR. hence the name (and as you observed I went to some effort to make sure you could easily see the hoax) miguel....

        oh wait...

        fuck it i am a troll :^)

      • Re:hmmm (Score:3, Informative)

        by jmv ( 93421 )
        (Speaking as Speex author) Well, you didn't get it because it's outdated and hasn't been replaced yet (e.g. Speex is now BSD). On the patent front, we're now much more confident about our "patent-free" statement. Of course, you can never be 100% sure with patents, no matter what you do.
    • People have been working on speech coding since before computers were even around, and there was a lot of work in this area in the 1960's and 1970's. Patents only last around 20 years, so a lot of that stuff is in the public domain now.
  • What's the difference between Speex and OGG?
    Any comparison on that?

    Will it benefit game developers in delivering voiceover game speeches?
    • speex is geared to vocals, ie more detail in fewer places rather than the semi-constant bitrate needed by music

    • Re:What's the difference between Speex and OGG? (Score:5, Informative)

      by pe1rxq ( 141710 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:08AM (#5582652) Homepage Journal
      Speex is a voice codec used for low bandwidth voice data (ie voip).
      Ogg is a container format, you can put speex data inside an ogg file.

      You probably mean Vorbis, which is an general purpose audio codec much like mp3. Most of the time vorbis data is also put into ogg files.

      Jeroen
      • Could you elaborate more on this? (I actually thought Ogg and Vorbis were just abbreviated names of the same codec "Ogg Vorbis".)

        So, you're saying that Ogg is "a container format" and "Vorbis" and "Speex" are codecs.... To make this easier for me to understand, could you give an example of an equivalent of that. (like, is Microsoft's "doc" format a container, but you can actually save different versions of text documents to that container? or would that just simply be using the sae file extension for diffe

        • Re:What's the difference between Speex and OGG? (Score:5, Informative)

          by jonathan_ingram ( 30440 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @10:11AM (#5582873) Homepage
          An example from the media formats world:

          AVI is a container format (it standard for Audio Video Interleave, or something similar). Within reason, you can put data encoded with many different audio or video codecs into an AVI file -- the most common choice these days being an MPEG-4 variant (i.e. DivX) for the video, and MP3 for the audio.

          A similar situation holds for Apple's container format, which often has the suffix .MOV (this is also the basis for the MPEG-4 container format). Most commonly, you'll see .MOVs with the Sorenson video codec -- and it's the closed nature of this video codec which has (until very recently) held back most .MOVs from being played back in Linux.

          Back to Xiph's products: Ogg is the overall container format. It's quite simple, and is currently being submitted to the IETF as an internet recommendation. Inside this container, you can place whatever you like. Until very recently, almost every Ogg file would contain Vorbis audio, which leads to the confusion a lot of people have between the things Ogg and Vorbis stand for. This is slowly changing. Quite a few people in the movie ripping world are using Ogg as an alternative to AVI, as the Ogg container format is a lot happier with containing variable bitrate codecs (such as Vorbis) than AVI is (even variable bitrate MP3 can only be inserted into an AVI container by a fairly dodgy procedure).

          Xiph's codecs include Vorbis, which is for medium bitrate music, Speex, which is for low bitrate speech, FLAC, which is for high bitrate lossless audio, and in development is Theora, a video codec which is a reworking of the previously closed VP3 codec by On2.

        • A few examples.. (Score:4, Informative)

          by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @10:14AM (#5582882) Homepage
          AVI: Ever needed the right codec, even if the file is still called .avi? Heard of FOURCC? *Most* codecs come with Windows Media Player, but certainly not all.

          TIFF: Do you know TIFF? Well there's uncompressed TIFF and compressed TIFF (I think 4-5 different compression algorigthms) that are all called .tif

          DOC: Yep it's a container format. A .doc file from Office95 is not the same as a .doc file from Office XP. The actual spec keeps changing, just ask the OpenOffice people trying to reverse-engineer it. However, it's not quite in the same class as the other two - this is just one format that is changing (versioning), while files like .avi and .ogg are designed to hold different types of audio streams, for different purposes.

          Kjella
        • Example 1: a .zip archive is to a file contained in it roughly as an Ogg file is to a Vorbis stream inside it. Vorbis is the codec, Vorbis is the format, Ogg is the container.

          Example 2: AVI is a container for audio/video streams encoded with several codecs. Your typical DivX ;-) 4/5 file is an MPEG4 video stream + MP3 audio stream packed together inside an AVI file, where DivX ;-) is the video codec, MPEG4 is the video format, lame/whatever is the audio codec, MPEG2 layer 3 is the audio format and AVI is

      • Ogg is a container format, you can put speex data inside an ogg file.


        You probably mean Vorbis, which is an general purpose audio

        Why is it so popular to ridicule those who just call it ogg? I believe it was monty that went off on a rant on how it was _meant_ to be called OGG, and what a good noun OGG makes...

        So please, just say OGG!
    • I see, download the manual at Documentation page. It will address the features Speex in detail.

  • This is good (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Quixote ( 154172 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:06AM (#5582645) Homepage Journal
    OSS needs a low-bitrate codec. I've been looking to put toether a netmeeting-type open-source app that works on both Linux and Windblows, for use over low(er) speed dialup lines (like 9600bps or thereabouts). This would be the missing piece.

    On a related note: if there are any other active projects for a netmeeting-type application (I'm aware of Gnomemeeting, but I'd like to avoid the whole directory/ILS business, and just do simple person-to-person calls, with possible encryption if desired), please post a link.

    • Re:This is good (Score:5, Informative)

      by popeyethesailor ( 325796 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:25AM (#5582709)
      Isnt that what Speakfreely [speakfreely.org] is about ?
      Also available for Unix [fourmilab.ch].
      CLI based, but some front-ends are available too.
      • From speakfreely site: "This site will continue to host Speak Freely, although no further development is planned at this time."

        Mmm, discouraging...
        • Checkout the other link.
        • But the program is great, and we have the code. Surely someone could pick it up. (see the UNIX SpeakFreely site, someone may have already in a limmited way)

          It's a wonderful program and it would be terrible for it to be let go too long. Wasn't there some talk of porting it to WxWindows, so the Mac people could play too? (the UNIX cli/tcl versions might work, but aren't as nice as the Windows version)

          Again, it's really great software.
          • see the UNIX SpeakFreely site, someone may have already ...

            Yes! and there's even a new version out. Go GPL you good thing.

            Wasn't there some talk of porting it to WxWindows

            Oh, a trip to the Windows speakfreely site shows what happened to that apparently..... oh well, can't blame the guy for wanting to earn a living.

    • Re:This is good (Score:4, Informative)

      by cduffy ( 652 ) <charles+slashdot@dyfis.net> on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:25AM (#5582711)
      On a related note: if there are any other active projects for a netmeeting-type application (I'm aware of Gnomemeeting, but I'd like to avoid the whole directory/ILS business, and just do simple person-to-person calls, with possible encryption if desired), please post a link.

      You *are* familiar with Speak Freely [speakfreely.org], right?
    • http://www.openh323.org

    • Re:This is good (Score:5, Interesting)

      by IcePic ( 23761 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:42AM (#5582769) Homepage
      Do *NOT* make the same mistake that H323 and SIP has
      done and make a protocol that can handle NAT.
      With the shortage of ipv4 addresses (or the silly
      admins that NAT anyhow) today, you can't use any simple
      net-audio no more. People seem to be able to do
      most anything, including GameVoice and stuff, but
      all the standardised, "serious" software is designed
      by people on univerisities or other places that never
      heard of NAT so they constantly design the protocols
      to send your ip inside the protocol.

      Of course, some 2-bit hack kernel module for
      ip--filtering for linux appears
      in 6 months, but everyone doesn't want to modify
      kernels with random modules and unproven code just
      because netaudio folks seems to think NAT doesn't
      exist.

      I'd love for NAT to go away and die, but unfortunately
      it wont, so please, if you make an audio app, make
      it able to survive a simple port forwarding so I
      can 'call' through my $100 cheap-o-matic SOHO-firewall
      box.
      • I'd love for NAT to go away and die, but unfortunately
        it wont, so please, if you make an audio app, make
        it able to survive a simple port forwarding so I
        can 'call' through my $100 cheap-o-matic SOHO-firewall
        box.

        $100???? Mine cost me $5.25:

        Old AMD K6/2 motherboard and CPU sitting in closet: $0
        Old 16X CD-ROM drive sitting in closet: $0
        Beatup ATX case sitting in closet: $0
        Devil Linux [slashdot.org]: $0
        Two 3COM 905B 100-Base-TX "Boomerang" ethernet cards sitting in closet: $0
        Old floppy drive sitting in closet: $0
        New fan f

      • Re:This is good (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Mod that up ;)

        NAT is a reality now because a lot of people with DSL or Cable broadband connections are using NAT-enabled routers...and these are the very same people most likely to use audio or videoconferencing...or anything else interesting.
      • The new version of SpeakFreely for UNIX [fourmilab.ch], mentioned here already several times, will handle NAT. From the v7.6 announcement:

        The NAT Patch by Tor-Åke Fransson has been integrated into this release and enabled by default; this patch permits users behind routers and firewalls which perform Network Address Translation boxes to contact users who aren't.

        Don't forget to try the Tcl/Tk v0.8.1 interface!

        The windows version looks like it has been orphaned, so you'll have to patch it yourself if you want NA

      • > Do *NOT* make the same mistake that H323 and SIP has
        > done and make a protocol that can handle NAT.

        If you want to use H323 with NAT, I assume all you have to do is install a H323 Gatekeeper on a server with a real IP and a private IP (e.g. the network gateway).

        > make it able to survive a simple port forwarding so I can 'call' through my $100 cheap-o-matic SOHO-firewall box.

        OK, well, that might actually be difficult...

      • NAT is the wrong solution to an artificial problem and has to go away, because it breaks point-to-point connectivity, which is a necessity if you want to use the Internet the way it was intended. Instead of using NAT you should bug your ISP to give you more addresses.

        While you're at it you should ask them for an IPv6 address block as well. They will never start rolling it out unless they know there is customer demand.

    • For example, it would be great if gaim would have a plugin for this purpose (that worked on windows and linux, not neccesarily in that order).
      I'm not sure if you can support NAT without some server interaction, though.
    • I guess http://www.speakfreely.org/ is something you are looking for. it lacks http tunelling and tcp-only connection options necessary for contemporaty microsoftish networks, though, which renders it unusable in many cases.
    • Take a look at OpenH323.org [openh323.org], they've got a netmeeting compatible application, that also supports the speex codec (so this comment is even on topic! ;-).

      It works pretty good (I've tried the windows version), but be aware that H323 needs open UDP ports.
    • Check out Linphone [linphone.org]. It's been one of the first to adopt Speex.
    • you don't need the whole ILS thing to use gnomemeeting. I just use it with IP numbers on the local lan and an ethernet VPN tunnel.

  • Codec progress is great, but we need content (Score:4, Interesting)

    by matthewg42 ( 646725 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:07AM (#5582651) Homepage
    It's good to see some open codecs appearing/ reaching some level of maturity, though I'm not sure if we'll ever be free from fear of the IP clans in this area...

    The main problem I see now is getting some media available exclusivley in these formats. I have to confess it's an awfully big incentive to use proprietary format players when the alternative is not to listen/watch at all.

  • How did they manage? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by millwall ( 622730 )
    It would be nice to know how the managed to get registered as a charitable non-profit organization by the IRS.

    The article doesn't mention what they claimed in all those million pages of documentation and those billion phonecalls....

    • Public Software Fund (Score:5, Informative)

      by Russ Nelson ( 33911 ) <slashdot@russnelson.com> on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:28AM (#5582723) Homepage
      We just went through this at the Public Software Fund [pubsoft.org]. Basically, you need a good lawyer and thousands of dollars. You also need to show that nobody will get any private benefit from the publicly-funded works. You also have to show that what you're doing falls into several categories of public benefits, like scientific research, or charitable works.

      But if all you want to do is have your public software project receive tax-free donations, just register with Pubsoft [pubsoft.org] and add your project to the list [pubsoft.org]?
      • "You also need to show that nobody will get any private benefit from the publicly-funded works."

        How is this possible with GPL'd (and perhaps other OSS licensed) code? I thought that anyone could repackage and sell it. With specifications such as the OGG Vorbis specification, they clearly state that it can be utilized to make commercial applications.

        These seem to include private benefits of publicly funded works.
        • This is a rather trickier question than it may sound like.

          First of all, it's less than 100% clear that "private benefit" prevents an organization from getting 501(c)(3) status. The traditional test as to this, and the only one (on this issue) that's in the code, is not "private benefit" by "inurement" to a private shareholder, which sounds like a considerably narrower concept. In particular, "inurement" was traditionally understood not to include much beyond direct financial benefit.

          Several years ago, t
        • Sure, anybody can repackage and sell it, but that's not a private benefit. As you say, *anyone* can repackage it.
          -russ
      • Going through these free software funding groups is a real pain. Once you take their money, they obligate you to demonstrate significant progress on the project for the rest of your life, which over years and decades can become more of a financial burden than not taking the money in the first place.

        Secondly, the fact that you need these organizations like pubsoft.org and thousands of dollars in lawyers to get tax deductions shows just how much the tax structure slams free software while promoting commerc
        • they obligate you to demonstrate significant progress on the project for the rest of your life,

          Actually, pubsoft [pubsoft.org] is project-based. Once you finish the project, you get paid, and that's it. If you choose to get paid part-way through the project, then sure, you can expect to have to show progress.
          -russ
    • I'm glad you asked that. the 501(c)3 effort, as best as I followed it took well over a year, with paperwork being filed with the local IRS offices on multiple occasions and Emmett having to run off to talk to the IRS or lawyers repeatedly. That statement was in no way an exhaggeration. It's much harder to get the IRS to allow you to not make money, than to set up a for-profit business.

  • What i'm curious to know is (Score:5, Interesting)

    by SolemnDragon ( 593956 ) <solemndragon AT gmail DOT com> on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:24AM (#5582705) Homepage Journal
    Can they get ties in to other nonprofit organisations? Because i can think of a whole lot of nonprofits that have been LOOKING for software development buddies, especially anything working better than current speech software. It becomes particularly relevant in issues such as advanced neuromuscular diseases. What they need is free, open-source (read: adaptable) voiceware, so that people who are already on disability don't have to pay for it... And i'm thinking that the amount of publicity that they could get by tying onto something like one of the many ALS foundations out there, or the MS etc foundations.... would be good for everybody...

    of course, i could be completely offbase, because i was a bad slashdotter today and didn't read all of the material, just enough to think about. On a monday morning, thinking is limited... *sigh* right. In the words of they might be giants: "More coffee for me, dear, 'cause i'm not as messes up as i'd like to be...."

  • questions (Score:4, Interesting)

    by koekepeer ( 197127 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:27AM (#5582715)
    hey /. readers/experts (i hope)

    how does this translate into RL applications? i would *love* to be able to caal a friend over the internet. but:

    do you need hardware (other than pc)?
    can you connect to windows computers?

    this could seriously reduce my phonecosts, i'd be quite pleased to use it and donate some money if i could get this working with my (not able to run linux because of company policy and low geekness factor) friends abroad.

    can someone point me to some good links for info?

    tnx

  • Sourceforge next? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dnoyeb ( 547705 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:46AM (#5582780) Homepage Journal
    I have always wondered if I could write off the time I spend on OSS projects as charitable donations. I'm not getting paid for it and it does contribute to the global society. I wonder if sourceforge could not become a charitable organization? At least the software side, the adverts could be a different company that pays the charitable org.
    • short answer, no.

      long answer, the charitable contributions are based on your cost for what you contribute.
      It is not based on the value of your time. If you drove to the salvation army and dropped off clothes you can deduct(if you itemize) the mileage cost and the fair market value of the clothes if you purchased them at retail.
      If you drive to a non-profit and code for 24 hours you can only deduct the mileage.

    • even if their annual reports don't show it, VA Linux is not trying to be "non-profit".


      Sourceforge is a giant advertisement for the comemrcial sourceforge product.


      However, savannah.gnu.org is based on an earlier, FREE, version of sourceforge, and is run by FSF (so it's already 501(c)3), and hosts gnu and non-gnu software.


      Donate to the FSF, or EFF.

    • Re:Sourceforge next? (Score:5, Informative)

      by J. Tang ( 16252 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @10:10AM (#5582871)
      Kind of off-topic, but not really, no, you cannot deduct time spent on OSS projects. Under the section "Contributions You May Not Deduct" on page A-4, 2002 1040 instructions, you cannot deduct "Value of your time or services".

      So if you're looking to itemize deductions this year, give money to Xiph et al.

      Disclaimer: IANALTP (I am not a licensed tax preparer)

      • Re:Sourceforge next? (Score:3, Insightful)

        by rtaylor ( 70602 )
        No... But you can get paid by the OpenSource project then donate the money back to them. Yes, you'll still be paying taxes -- but to the project, you're simply giving them dirt cheap labour.
        • There's no tax savings there.

          The money they pay you will be income to you. The money you pay back will be deductible -- but only as an itemized deduction, and subject to various limits.

          Bottom line: doing this might make you owe more in taxes and might have no effect but cannot possibly lower your tax bill.

          Yes, IAAL. No, you're not my client.

      • Re: deductions off charitable work (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        IANALTP, either, but there are points in the tax code that allow deductions for hardware/software bought for use on work. It doesn't even need to have a charitable nature. Ditto mileage, travel costs for conferences, etc. etc. etc.

        As an avid (amateur) hacker of the tax code, let me just say right here that schedule C is your friend. If what you're doing is a separate business from your work, declare it as such and treat it as such. The tax benefits are sizeable and it is nice to have that added rationa
      • Good point. But, I suppose you could deduct the actual value of the code that you contributed. Loop holes are everywhere!
    • You can't write off the time you spend on OSS projects. However, you can assign the copyright to a non-profit, and get a valuation from someone who is experienced in assessing the value of copyrighted code. You can then reasonably deduct that amount from your before-tax income. I can help you find someone to do that valuation.
      -russ

  • Tax Breaks (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Spunk ( 83964 ) <sq75b5402@sneakemail.com> on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:53AM (#5582812) Homepage
    Must donations be in cash to qualify for tax breaks? What about donations of time, or code?
    • If you assign the copyright on a piece of code to a non-profit like the FSF or the Public Software Fund, then you can deduct the value of that code from you income. The problem, of course, is getting a valuation. We (pubsoft) will only give you a receipt acknowledging donation of the copyright. It's up to you to figure out what the fair-market value of that code is.
      -russ

  • What sort of speed processor do we need? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by 91degrees ( 207121 ) on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:55AM (#5582819) Journal
    A low bitrate audio codec is useless if it can't compress in real time. Will my 300MHz Linux box be able to compress my voice in real-ish time?

  • tax deductible (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday March 24, 2003 @09:56AM (#5582820)
    Keep in mind, currently, charitable donations are only tax deductible if you itemize. I suspect most slashdot readers 1) Aren't in the US or 2)Don't itemize or 3) Are dependents (aka live in parents basement).
  • Tomorrow, we'll demonstrate in front of the White House to demand Freedom of Speex!!
  • I have been investigating the feasability of moving my church into digital recording instead of to tape. I thought with ogg vorbis I could archive older sermons in mass quantities without too horrible of sound. But alas ogg vorbis sux with plain voice because it still needs the higher bitrates to sound good like 64 or so. But then I found speex. And I found that a good sounding (not taxing to the ear but noticeable compression) could fit forty 45 minute sermons on one cd (assuming the compression I got
    • Our church has recently just started recording sermons to CD and the like.

      I am using an old Toshiba laptop with Win98 and Cool Edit 2000 to record the sermon. I then take it home, and do the post processing there (snip extra bits of the start & end, run noise reduction, etc). People who request a cd of it get a copy created. I also convert the file into a Speex file (a 45 minute sermon is about 225Mb in size in .WAV, about 12Mb in Speex). A copy is available on the church's website [rosslandridge.ca]. At the end of

      • sweet nice to see someone else doing this. downloading semon now to see how well it works. There is a speex plugin for xmms linked on there site [slashdot.org] but I have not been able to compile it. Not sure why, I am new to linux. It should also be noted that it is an older version of speex like .8 or so but curious to see if anyone can get it to work. Or if anyone decides to make a speex plugin that is up to date and want to help me get it working I would appreciate it.
        • I built the files using quality=8, complexity=10. For author, i put in the name of the person speaking that morning. I use VBR. Title is the title. In the comments, I also put the date, and the name of our church (seperate comments).

          I did some testing, and VBR provided the smallest file size at a given quality - YMMV. Having a high complexity also made the file slightly smaller.

          I use windows to record, process, and the compress the files. From the Speex website [speex.org] I am using the Windows binaries.

          I

  • Don't get me wrong, I am an Open Source advocate, but is this really a charity worthy of tax deductions?

    Charity for me is something that you don't expect anything in return from, but this is certainly not the case with OSS-charities.

    With these OSS-charities you get a product in return, and it might even be something you base your business on.

    If you are a consultancy-agency developing systems using Xing-codecs for profit, it would seem strange if giving money to Xing is counted as a charity. Can you actua

    • Charity for me is something that you don't expect anything in return from...

      Perhaps, traditionally, but we are here to revolutionarize everything, no?

      But seriously, donating usually means to improve the society by helping someone do things you wanted, but never had all the resources for. Like, you can feed your neighbor, but who can feed *the* hungry?

      Look, this is really a fairly abstract way of improving society, but it can, by enhancing communication, archiving speeches, obscure languages, etc. Sur

    • Charity for me is something that you don't expect anything in return from,

      Whenever I donate anything on charities, I sure expect something in return. If I a coin or six to Red Cross, I expect that someone out in the cold cruel world gets a little bit of help. It may not help me, right now, but it helps someone out there. And if I ever end up bruised and mangled in a traffic accident or something (it is pretty unlikely with today's safe transportation methods, but it can happen), I sure hope there's some

    • (It's Xiph, not Xing.)

      If you give money to a cancer-cure-research organization, it doesn't suddenly become a non-charity if you happen to have cancer.

      When it comes to codecs, we all have cancer and we all want the cure. While you do get something in return for your donation, you are not specifically the entity that gets something; everyone gets something for your donation, including your competitors.

    • first off it's Xiph, not Xing. And secondly, you aren't getting the product because you donated, people that do not choose to donate recieve the product in the same manner and timeframe as those that donate (in fact those that take time to donate before downloading may get their product in a longer time frame (in length by the time it takes to make the donation which Xiph does greatly appreciate.) So legally no you do not get ogg, vorbis, theora or speex out of your donation. This makes the FULL amount t
  • Been looking for a while at how to get tax writeoffs on free software expenses. Spending $150,000 on a free software project using after-tax income is a rediculous burden when you consider if you just charged $1 for the software you could make $75,000 with the tax writeoff.

    We're at a serious disadvantage in that commercial software developers make the same product as free software developers but free software developers have to pay income tax on everything they use in developing that product while commerc
    • Wait a minute... If you have a business, say "Lame Software Development" (LSD), then at least some of what you spend on business related hardware and software can be deducted from any income you might have had. Suppose LSD bought a development machine for $500. Then that $500 could be treated the same way as any other software developer's expenses. It doesn't matter to the IRS whether you are a "free software project" or a "commercial software project", as long as you are running a business. The hardest
    • You could donate the hardware to a 501(c)(3) charity like Xiph, the FSF, or pubsoft, but then you'd be obliged to only develop freely copyable software on it, and you'd also have to keep a logbook showing that that's what you in fact did. Yes, commercial developers have a presumption that their hardware is being used for commercial purposes, but that's because the company has to show a profit three years out of five.
      -russ

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