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BSA To Join Battle Against DRM 177

Posted by Hemos from the who-what-where-why-how dept.
Dunark writes "It appears that two of our favorite enemies are now at loggerheads with each other: According to The Inquirer, the Business Software Alliance has joined the fight against the Hollywood-backed attempt to legislate required DRM (the Hollings bill). Read about it in The Inquirer and also at Mercury News"
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BSA To Join Battle Against DRM More

BSA To Join Battle Against DRM

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  • Hmm (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:34AM (#5014020)
    So now its nothing more then a battle of bank accounts

  • If we are lucky (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Chrome-Dragon ( 140684 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:35AM (#5014025) Homepage Journal
    they will sue each other out of business, guess that's to much to ask for eh?

  • WHAT???????? (Score:3, Funny)

    by UrGeek ( 577204 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:36AM (#5014029)
    I am amazed. A flash of sanity for the BSA. The next thing, you know, Microsoft will make the source code for W2000 open source. Or maybe even, I will find a meaningful, rewarding job.
    • you're assuming that it's SANITY driving the BSA??

    • Re:WHAT???????? (Score:4, Informative)

      by Gyan ( 6853 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:39AM (#5014040)
      "A flash of sanity for the BSA"

      Well, the BSA is controlled by the tech companies.

      So, if the techs go after **AA, it will be through the BSA and (maybe) individually.

      Hardly surprising.

      • Re:WHAT???????? (Score:4, Insightful)

        by schlach ( 228441 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @01:41PM (#5014574) Journal
        Seriously. The BSA isn't the Gestapo or something. They don't set their agenda to 'Evil'. They are the attack dogs of a lot of companies interested in making money. When they think they're losing money from piracy, the BSA kicks down some doors at the public schools. When they think they're losing money from bad legislation, the BSA politely and sweetly whispers soothing words of influence and control to our lords and masters.

        The goal is the same: make money.

        Tactics might be different, but who really thinks you make as many friends in Congress by kicking down their doors as you do at public schools? ; )

  • In other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by bwalling ( 195998 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:36AM (#5014030) Homepage
    North Korea is planning an attack on Iraq if they don't stop production of "weapons of mass destruction".

  • mixed feelings... (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Talk about mixed feelings. Well, I suppose there is the old "the enemy of my enemy" idea....but I much prefer the idea of Tsu Sen, and that of getting your enemies to fight each other...

  • +4 Insightful. Place your bets please. (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    If they are our favourite enemies then that means they can stick around right?

  • Obligatory BSA Joke (Score:4, Interesting)

    by imadork ( 226897 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:39AM (#5014042) Homepage
    This is great news! But we need Tech companies on our side, not the Boy Scouts!

    Seriously, though, I'm suprised to see Microsoft take this position, since they had the most to gain if this scheme takes off. After all, if you can only watch future movies on "approved" OS's, guess which ones will be approved [microsoft.com] and which ones won't! [gentoo.org]

    • Obligatory MPlayerJoke (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Artifex ( 18308 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:57AM (#5014098) Journal
      After all, if you can only watch future movies on "approved" OS's, guess which ones
      will be approved [microsoft.com] and which ones won't! [gentoo.org]

      I'm betting that within a week of Microsoft pushing a DRM implementation out to the public, there will probably be an mplayer patch with a couple downloadable DLLs that will do the whole thing. :)

    • Microsoft doesn't mind DRM, really... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by FireBreathingDog ( 559649 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:46PM (#5014267)
      I think the above poster is right about "voluntary" (i.e., industry-managed as opposed to legislatively-mandated) DRM with respect to Microsoft...

      Microsoft's DRM scheme serves as yet another way to lock people into their operating system by restricting the choice (of content) that is available to users of other operating systems.

      Think about it: if Microsoft is successful at convicing Hollywood that their content will only be safe on Microsoft Windows systems, then Hollywood will only produce content for Microsoft Windows systems.

      Microsoft may actually fear legislative attempts at creating DRM schemes, since those attempts would be much less likely to favor one OS over another.

  • All we need is the largest Chip manufacturer, the largest PC manufacturer, and the largest O.S. manufacturer teaming up on things like this. Add NEC, Maxtor, NVidia, and [sic]holy crap snow is falling from the roof around me[/sic] Micron.

    Maybe it's not illegal, but it looks bad...

  • BSA is not the **AA?? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by jackb_guppy ( 204733 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:42AM (#5014052)
    They both want the same thing. Control your desktop.

    The difference is the business model.

    **IA wants to control the media of distribution to protect their business model.

    BSA wants you to "break the law" with their software watching to charge you after the fact.

    You know penalities are "free" money.
    • BSA wants you to "break the law" with their software watching to charge you after the fact.

      hehe, and next we'll read about BSA becoming the new owners and distributors of such things as "Nero Burning ROM", "WinZip", etc. Heck, maybe they'll foot the bill for a pretty GUI DeCSS app. Of course, these will be special new versions which make handy use of your P4 serial number and your broadband connection back to their data warehouse.

      With a couple of Perl scripts, their whole bully-fee-collection system could be automated.

    • Re:BSA is not the **AA?? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Dunark ( 621237 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:59AM (#5014111)
      I'm hoping that Congress does the obvious thing to benefit themselves: If they drag their feet, hem and haw, and otherwise prolong the legislative process, they get the maximum amount of campaign contributibtions from the opposed lobbying groups while doing what I want: Nothing.

  • DRM seems strikingly familiar ... (Score:5, Funny)

    by SuperDuG ( 134989 ) <<kt.celce> <ta> <eb>> on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:43AM (#5014055) Homepage Journal
    ... to a way to [us-israel.org] identify yourself legally to the one's in charge [bbc.co.uk].

    Please don't mod this +1 funny, as it's not meant to be that way. I really do find strinkingly large simularities between the way the Nazi's do things and the way certain members of congress try to force the people that elected them to give up their rights. Just because "Rights" is one of the DRM words, doesn't make it right.

    I believe in Law [stanford.edu] that is for the people.

    please follow the links...

  • How does that saying go?

    "With friends like these . . ."

  • heh (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Iamthefallen ( 523816 ) <Gmail name: Iamthefallen> on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:44AM (#5014060) Homepage Journal

    This is like an American version of Godzilla vs. Mothra, 2 monsters in suits battling eachother in the courtroom, you're not quite sure who'll win, you're not quite sure you care, but you have to watch it and cheer them on.

    • Re:heh (Score:5, Funny)

      by Cyno01 ( 573917 ) <Cyno01@hotmail.com> on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:28PM (#5014186) Homepage
      Yeah, and no matter who wins they'll have stomped half the city.
    • o/~ Oh no. There goes Tokyo! Go go Godzilla! o/~
    • Iamthefallen wrote:

      > This is like an American version of Godzilla vs.
      > Mothra, 2 monsters in suits battling eachother in
      > the courtroom,

      Precisely what I was thinking. Especially since, in the 1964 movie, Mothra used Godzilla (then himself a bad guy) to off the human bad guys while trying to stop Godzilla herself (herselves by the end of the movie, as her twin daughters were the ones to defeat him). The two men Godzilla killed were the greedy execs of Happy Enterprises, a show biz company that thought it owned Mothra's egg, and thought it could buy or enslave her fairies. It thought wrong.

      Mothra spent most of the early and mid sixties expounding on how evil the movie and music industries were, long before the **AA came into being. Godzilla (long since a good guy, though he does revert to his nuclear nightmare persona at times) recently did a movie on the evils of Microsoft, called "Godzilla 2000 Millennium".

      > you're not quite sure who'll win, you're not
      > quite sure you care, but you have to watch it
      > and cheer them on.

      You better care. The Goddess of Peace fights the God of the Atom in the heart of the Cold War. Which one can you survive winning?

      "Really, gentlemen, if that's the case, let's see the power of attorney given to you by Mothra."
      Torahata, "Mothra vs. Godzilla", 1964
      Good thing this bad dude is dead, or the **AA would recruit him.

      "At this moment, it has control of systems all over the world. And...we can't do a damn thing to stop it."
      Miyasaka, "Godzilla 2000 Millennium" (Japanese version)
      Miyasaka, that's what you get for installing Windows XP Service Pack 1. Now only Godzilla can save you.

  • Which side is MS on??? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Microsoft is a member of the BSA, is it not?

    But doesn't Microsoft *want* to cram all this DRM shit down our throats, so they can achieve greater lock-in over their customer base (i.e. "Switch to another OS and your DRMed MP3's stop working... and you won't be able to use MovieLink!)
    • yep, MS does want to cram all this DRM stuff onto "your" PC... But that is because they don't believe it is really yours, since it is running MS software.... They view the DRM solution as a wonderful way to gain even more control.... after all, if there is no legislated requirement, then they can end up setting and controlling a non-published de facto standard.

      Be afraid.... Be very afraid....

  • Don't be so supprised (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Huogo ( 544272 ) <<ten.kcocaepeht> <ta> <mada>> on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:45AM (#5014066) Homepage
    The BSA simply wants to do their own DRM, and dosn't want it mandated to them. If the RIAA/MPAA gets to choose the DRM, the BSA has to implement one that they might not like. If the BSA can implement their own DRM, they can charge royalties for using it, and they get to choose their own.

    • Re:Don't be so supprised (Score:5, Interesting)

      by azazeal386 ( 635041 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:53AM (#5014089)
      Very good on noticing this. The Hollings bill mandanted (as I recall) that the DRM solution be OPEN to the point that any manufacturer can implement it (usually, government chosen specs are patent-licensed to all, such as the Digital Signature Algorithm). RIAA wants cheap players so more people can watch movies. The BSA wants the PER-SALE fee to use their DRM solution (each DRM protected movie file you download a small amount goes into Microsoft's coffers).
    • Having worked for a DRM company (not MS), I can verify that this is exactly what's going on here.
    • I'd wager that the Microsoft has the largest voice in the BSA and the biggest concerns over manditory DRM. I know I've read for years that the recording industry has rejected Microsoft's "offers" on DRM technology for music for a long time, largely because they don't like Microsoft's business practices.

      I'd wager that this "BSA vs. DRM" fight is actually more of a "MS vs. Hollywood" fight when you find out who the big players are. I can't see the roll-up-your-sleeves back office database crowd really caring about DRM, since its far more focused on entertainment generally and Windows desktop OS + Music Files specifically. (Yes, I realize they probably do care about it at some technology geek level, but perhaps not at the legislative lobbying level).

      I mean, maybe Apple cares and maybe a few of the multimedia software vendors care, but would Oracle, Sybase or someone like that, outside of making Microsoft's life hard?
  • Isn't this a little like Darth Vader going after Satan? Or the reverse???

  • What fools we all have been! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by azazeal386 ( 635041 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:49AM (#5014079)
    First, what the BSA wants is NOT less DRM, it is
    Market-Enforced DRM. You can only get your software,
    movies, music and what have you THROUGH their
    blessed Palladium.
    The reason they don't want Hollings bill is
    that it forces them to consider things that they
    otherwise wouldn't for economic reasons, for
    example fair use and expiration of copyrights, which
    would come into play IF the DRM solution was
    part of a law.

    So -- Remember. They are NOT anti-DRM, they just
    want to CONTROL the DRM. And it is a LOT more
    difficult for government to interfere with
    the private choices of individuals (you bought
    this hardware knowing it had DRM -- but you
    can't connect to your online banking otherwise and
    the $10/teller visit fees added up!)
    • I'm not too sure about American law, but is this true? It really sucks if it is. You can just imagine the meeting around the table before the sudden U-turn in BSA policy.

      "This DRM bill should help our strategy a lot then."
      "Sir, we just realised that we could get even more control WITHOUT the bill!"
      "Everyone to lobby stations! Release the $2 billion emergency bribe money!"
    • for example fair use and expiration of copyrights, which would come into play IF the DRM solution was part of a law.
      I'm interested in exactly how the "expiration of copyrights" part will be written.

      1. Just set the date on your PC to next century, open the DRM-protected data, it sees the copyrights have expired and allows you to copy it.

      2. Use a central authority to determine when copyrights expire; this would prevent 1. from working, but what happens when that central authority goes out of business?

    • Right, but if it's not mandated by law, then there will be no problem for those of us who don't want Palladium to keep buying Macs and *nix boxes and happily consume media. So BSA is right, and **AA are wrong, in this case.

  • Excellent news! (Score:4, Funny)

    by ctid ( 449118 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:51AM (#5014084) Homepage
    My enemy's enemy is my ... Er wait a minute... I'll get back to you...

  • moron FraUDuleNT last gasper FUDgePacking (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday January 04, 2003 @11:51AM (#5014085)
    1) Earnings Management: The first and most important tool Microsoft (see also: va.msn.net, ticker symbol: (VAST [trustworthycomputing.com]) uses is the manipulation of earnings to ensure analysts' expectations are met. According to an ABC News 1/22/99 article by Michael Martinez, Microsoft's own internal auditor, a respected 30 year veteran and former partner of Deloitte and Touche, was fired in 1996 after informing management that their earnings manipulations were illegal and violations of the SEC and FASB laws. He was given the option to resign or be fired and later settled for $4 million after suing under the Federal Whistle Blowers Act.

    2) Speculating on Their Own Stock: Microsoft issues a massive amount of put options. During the same quarter ended 3/31/99, Microsoft sold put contracts on their own stock for $400 million, basically betting that the stock will not decline. They need not worry because they are allowed to "cook the books." Of Microsoft's significant cash balance, it is also a financial fact that more than 65 percent of that cash did not originate from product sales but rather from tax benefits associated with the exercise of stock options, employees prepaying their own wages, and the sale of put contracts on its own stock. Microsoft's financial innovation is making a mockery of financial integrity, ethics, and the securities laws, just as Insull did in the 1920's.

    3) Convincing Employees to Take Less Real Wages: Microsoft aggressively markets stock options to new employees in an effort to take wage expenses off the books. They also know that they can pocket the exercise price employees will be required to pay to take ownership of the stock. What also seems clear is that Microsoft is still aggressively marketing its stock option program to new recruits. To quote an email received, "I am about to begin employment at Microsoft and the stock option was the selling factor. Does your article overall state that it will be bad for me and will fail me in my retirement planning?" Is Microsoft fulfilling its disclosure obligations to its own employees, especially those that have put their entire 401K balance in Microsoft stock? This explains how 22 percent of Microsoft's massive cash balance has actually come from its own employees in the form of them prepaying their own wages through stock option exercise prices.

    4) Publicly touting the stock: In a recent earnings release, CFO Greg Maffei jokingly cited 10 reasons why Microsoft is a $1 trillion company. A common strategy here is to have top executives issue conflicting statements, one talking up the stock and the other talking it down and then within a few days financial analysts all come out with buy recommendations on the stock due to a small decline. They are making a mockery of financial integrity, ethics, and the securities laws.

    5) Controlling the media. After issuing several press releases on PR Newswire, Microsoft told the service to stop issuing my press releases. Microsoft is PR Newswire's largest client. PR Newswire is owned by Miller Freeman of the UK, a large media company that publishes many computer related publications including Information Week in addition to Microsoft focused journals such as the Windows System Developer. Miller Freeman does indeed function as if it were a department of Microsoft itself.

    6) Stock Option Accounting: It is important to note that any discussion of stock option accounting must address two completely different and independent situations. The first is to analyze the impact of options exercised and already retired and the second is to analyze the remaining options debt outstanding. This study focused on both whereas most media coverage only focuses on the remaining options debt outstanding.
  • we all know it's coming anyway. There's no way to stop the copy protection asshats unless a judge orders them to be stopped. You know what the stupid part is, though? Obviously, someone will make a hack to get around it, so it will all be useless, because the people who are exploiting copy protection for making bootlegs for profit will still be able to do so. All of us will be able to copy CDs as we please (as long as we install more hacks on our pc). This will only hurt the average consumer, because there won't be a way to employ copy protection in the stand-alone burners [micropro.com] that bootleggers use.
    • pummer wrote:

      > we all know it's coming anyway. There's no way to
      > stop the copy protection asshats unless a judge
      > orders them to be stopped.

      We know they are trying to bring DRM out and make it some kind of standard. The Hollings bill is the big problem. If it became law, it would be as hard to stop as the DMCA is now, six years after it was enacted. Then you would need a judge to stop it.

      But this is now, and it seems the software industry (the BSA is a professional association of software makers as well as Microsoft's private inquisition) has woken up to the danger the Hollings bill poses, or at least are trying to stop it for their own agenda. We need to hear from the consumer electronics industry as well, they are likewise threatened. If both industries were to scream *no* at Congress, they would easily drown out the much smaller entertainment industry. Anyway, Hollings no longer holds the Commerce chair, so he may lack the power in the new Congress to push his bill.

      Without the Hollings bill, Microsoft's monopoly and the **AA corner on content may be used (legally or otherwise) to try to push DRM on the market. Copy protection was rejected once by the market already, back when the PC market was much younger. It can be rejected again. DRM does not take the customer into account (except as an untrustworthy person to protect content against), and offers the customer no real value and many headaches. This would accelerate defection from Microsoft to alternative, DRM free, operating systems. Without the Hollings bill, it would be legal for them to exist DRM free and compete.

      In the end, if the Hollings bill does not pass, but Linux is unsuccessful in unseating Microsoft's Palladium by itself, help may come from Apple. Apple won't let DRM take over, and they certainly won't let the **AA turn computers into content viewing devices (as opposed to content creation devices). DRM won't succeed, even if it means letting a Jaguar loose on the PC.

      "No one's going to die, mister. Mothra's going to come and save us."
      Taiki Goto, "Mothra", December 14, 1996
      (Released in Japan six days before Apple's surprise announcement of the return of Steve Jobs.)
  • Please fully expand it as Business Software Association to keep people from confusing us [scouting.org] with these idiots [bsa.org].
  • I say we put the two sides in a steel cage, maybe with some pichforks and chainsaws. Two go in, one comes out.

    Or if we're real lucky no one comes out.

    -

  • BSA our enemy? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ultrabot ( 200914 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:00PM (#5014112)
    Since when was BSA our enemy? Don't you realize that the more they force people to pay for proprietary software, the less the people are inclined to choose proprietary solution over a free beer one.

    I bet many companies are evaluating open source alternatives for their existing proprietary applications right now, because they might not have bought quite enough licenses to cover all their use. That wouldn't be the case if BSA was less aggressive.

    • Re:BSA our enemy? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Jerf ( 17166 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:46PM (#5014272) Journal
      The BSA is our enemy because of their history of being jack-booted thugs, and using wild accusations and what boils down to vigilantism to accomplish their goals of ruining people's lives.

      They may cause people to move to open source but the collateral damage is too much.

      • Re:BSA our enemy? (Score:4, Interesting)

        by salesgeek ( 263995 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @05:17PM (#5015643) Homepage
        The BSA serves a legitimate purpose... I just wish their tactics were less severe. I wish they would invest in teaching software producers how to value and price their products as much as the enforcement of license compliance.

        Incidentally, I've been a part of BSA enforcements before... and they treat the consumer much more fairly then they have to. At the end of the day, I'm just glad open source is gaining some momentum and the BSA will be unnecessary.

        $G

    • I agree (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Alethes ( 533985 )
      See my editorial [newsforge.com] related to this topic, rather than me saying the same thing here. :)

    • When they harass open-source shops (Score:5, Informative)

      by bee ( 15753 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @01:52PM (#5014632) Homepage Journal
      There have been numerous reports of the BSA harassing Unix or open-source shops out of ignorance/malice (choose one) because they have the mentality that all PCs run Windows. Businesses have been destroyed because of them.

  • It is not supposed to work that way (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dada ( 31909 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:01PM (#5014114)
    Am I supposed to feel better because a lobbying group is working to undo the evil of another lobbying group?

    I'm no historian but I think the intent of the people who set up the USA Congress and other government organs was to enable the rule of the people for the common good. Now we see a group of corporations *buying* new laws for their own profit and the *only* thing that has the slightest chance of stopping them is another group of corporations who see a threat to their own bottom line.

    It might be nice to see bad laws failing to get enacted but if you believe that the BSA are acting for the good of the people you are very naive. They act for their own good *exclusively* and it is pure chance that in this instance it coincides with what is good for the general population (indeed, there are many examples of the same group working directly *against* the common good).

    So rejoice while you can but know this: you no longer have a say in the making of your own country's laws. Every time an expensive lobbying campaign is successful, it is one more battle lost for democracy; the exact legislative result is of little consequence.
    • Point taken, that the BSA is not serving the interests of fair use any more than the movie moguls.

      However, when two titans are fighting, they distract each other.

      This opens opportunities for the little creatures to sneak by with what would otherwise attract resistance from the titans.

      For example, while congress-critters are trying to sort out the mixed messages from the lobbyist crowd, they might give a little more weight to the public's messages.

      The opportunity lies in a carefully tuned message that plays on the combined weaknesses of the conflicting commercial interests.

  • Mercury News article optimistic? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dachannien ( 617929 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:01PM (#5014115)
    I noticed that the Mercury News article was very optimistic about the future of consumers' rights in the 108th Congress. Is this a realistic forecast, or is it still going to be an uphill battle against the ??AA to ensure that consumers' rights remain unabridged by the legislature?

  • From The Inquirer's article [theinquirer.net]:

    And today the Mercury News reports that the Business Software Alliance and another hi-tech trade group, the Comptuer Systems Policy Project, will join together to lobby Washington over the proposed bill.


    Hi-tech? The Comptuer Systems Policy Project? Is this a new organization specializing in greetings technologies, or have they used a secret DMCA-protected encoding scheme to hide the real name and purpose of their organization?

    I hope The Inquirer's fact checking is better than their spell checking.

  • DRM is at odds with BSA business model (Score:4, Insightful)

    by WoodstockJeff ( 568111 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:09PM (#5014136) Homepage
    BSA is not in business to STOP piracy; it exists to PROFIT from enforcing licensing terms via the courts, settlements, and threats of using same.

    DRM prevents piracy; who you going to sue, if no one can use software in violation of its license?

  • Tom Petty's lyrics finally getting though? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by NZheretic ( 23872 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:17PM (#5014156) Homepage Journal
    DRM to Hollywood and the RIAA is not about recovering lost profits from piracy, to them DRM is a means to recovering control over the selection and choices on offer to the consumer. Downloadable movies and music in DRM file formats can be set with a use-by date, and the publishers regain control of what is on offer to the public and for how long. Even CDs and DVDs could be given an effective use-by date.

    It's even more effective than establishing control over the radio playlists, something Tom Petty voiced in the lyrics to "The Last DJ".

    Well you can't turn him into a company man
    You can't turn him into a whore
    And the boys upstairs just don't understand anymore
    Well the top brass don't like him talking so much
    And he won't play what they say to play
    And he don't want to change what don't need to change
    And there goes the last DJ
    Who plays what he wants to play
    And says what he wants to say
    Hey, hey, hey
    And there goes your freedom of choice
    There goes the last human voice
    There goes the last DJ
    Well some folks say they're gonna hang him so high
    Because you just can't do what he did
    There's some things you just can't put in the minds of those kids
    As we celebrate mediocrity all the boys upstairs want to see
    How much you'll pay for what you used to get for free
    And there goes the last DJ
    Who plays what he wants to play
    And says what he wants to say
    Hey, hey, hey
    And there goes your freedom of choice
    There goes the last human voice
    And there goes the last DJ

    (Instrumental break)

    Well he got him a station down in Mexico
    And sometimes it will kinda come in
    And I'll bust a move and remember how it was back then
    There goes the last DJ
    Who plays what he wants to play
    And says what he wants to say
    Hey, hey, hey
    And there goes your freedom of choice
    There goes the last human voice
    And there goes the last DJ

  • `We've been unable to clearly, briefly and understandably present our case,' said Valenti. `We're not trying to hurt anybody. The more movies available on the Internet, the better it is for everyone.'

    Does anyone care to explain what exactly does that mean ? It *IS* assumed that these movies are not free for download by anyone....right ?

    • Re:Huh ? (Score:3, Funny)

      by Steve B ( 42864 )
      Motion Picture Association of America President Jack Valenti says part of the problem is a perception that his industry is anti-consumer.

      In other news, Osama bin Laden issued a statement saying that part of the problem is a perception that his organization is a band of murderous thugs.

      In both cases, the statements are being subjected to sophisticated high-tech analysis to determine whether they are the work of a live speaker, or have been patched together posthumously from old clips.

  • It's seems that a go-to-where-the-evil-is business like the BSA would be all for DRM.

    It lets them restrain use of software. UNLESS, they are worried it will WORK and put them out of business!

  • Of course. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by base3 ( 539820 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:30PM (#5014192)
    With strong DRM, there'd be no money to be made from protection rackets^W^W software audits and assessments of extortion money^W^W non-compliance fines.

    In fact, if a workable DRM scheme were possible, the raison d'être of the BSA, SPA, and similar criminal enterprises is completely kaput, vanished, gone, history . . . you get the idea. Additionally, their members would lose the mind share they currently gain from unlicensed use of their products.

    • You beat me to it.

      Yes, if DRM is enforced, then there is no longer any argument for fighting piracy, conducting audits, airing threatening radio ads and enticing employees to squeal on their employers.

      We have a corporate entity now facing their entire business model becoming obsolete. Observing how the RIAA reacted to this kind of scenario, this fight should prove interesting to watch

  • The law in the U.S. has become corrupt. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @12:33PM (#5014201) Homepage

    The biggest friends of business are business men and women. The biggest enemies of business are ... business men and women. Slashdot articles have provided many examples of business people being self-destructive.

    The law in the U.S. has become corrupt, as this July 2002 article, linked at the bottom of the Inquirer article, says: Political contribution watch [theinquirer.net].

    I've done some research about how law is made in Oregon: Airplanes are safe, but laws often crash [hevanet.com]. (For those who live outside the U.S.: Oregon is a U.S. state.)

    Basically, it appears that the law in the U.S. is being driven by those who have a financial interest, not people who have the best interests of the country in mind.
  • The article states that:
    The political winds have shifted in Washington over the past year, and a Hollings-style bill isn't expected to get far in the new Congress.
    basing this argument on the idea that an entertainment industry lobying effort has become strained, as organized oposition has had sime to solidify. The counter-argument would be that the entertainment industry has a more powerful position now that both houses of congress are republican-controlled. It will be interesting to watch the republican pols pick their way through the now politically vary dangerous landscape littered with the carnage left by two of their biggest constituants, although the entertainment industry will have to shed the hollywood cloak, and present themselves as 'bug business' since hollywood has generally had a liberal bent over the past 40 years.

    There are two responses we should consider. First, we could ally ourselves with the BSA, in an effort to demonstrate to third parties that the free software movement is not simply a collection of unreasoning zealots (a perception Stallman has managed to promote unfortunately), or we can just sit back and watch the carnage. Although the former is a more reasonable and politically benefitial stance, I favor the latter, just for it's sheer entertainment value.

    --CTH
    • The counter-argument would be that the entertainment industry has a more powerful position now that both houses of congress are republican-controlled.

      Not likely -- Hollywood has a (justified) reputation as a liberal bastion and a money machine for the Democrats. Unless the Republicans are as dumb as rocks (which can't be ruled out, to be sure), they'll turn a deaf ear to their concerns and might even be willing to whack their pee-pees a bit.

  • When the devil wants something good, you need to be very afraid and look for what massive evil he is trying to push.

    The BSA does nothing for the good of anything but their own pockets. They are looking to mold DRM into something that lines their pockets.... The forcing of DRM from their members not something that is open nor something that has limits.

    Anything the BSA does is pure unadultered evil that is only another way to extort money out of the citizens of the world.

    BSA = an extortion racket.. plain and simple.. and unfortunately, they now have a new racket scheme that they want control of.

    The Business Software Alliance is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to the United states of america... and they need to be watched very very carefully.
    • The Business Software Alliance is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to the United states of america... and they need to be watched very very carefully.

      You weren't alive during the Red Scare, were you? Or the Trail of Tears? And you're probably white (like me), and so don't have to worry about innner-city gang violence or the KKK...

      The BSA is absolutely, positivley tame compared to the USA's real problems, most of which have been happilly dealt with or contained. The BSA might be the worst thing to happen in the world of slashdotters--but that's not what you said.

    • We already know the massive evil the BSA is trying to push. They want people to "borrow" copies of software until they've used it enough to come to depend on it. Then they can shake down the businesses (and the occasional individual) for the money with that dependence as leverage ("Isn't it cheaper to pay us danegeld than to have to completely change your entire company's software systems out?").

      That's why they don't want working DRM: it cuts off that all-important first step. We all know the licensing fees are getting expensive. Right now companies get off cheaply by fudging the licensing until they're dependent on the software. With working DRM applied to software companies would wind up facing that huge licensing bill immediately, and the beancounters balk and say "Well, we haven't built anything yet, can't we find a cheaper alternative to start with?".

      • Ah yes, but with all the DRM, piracy will become nonexistent, and all those lost billions of dollars will come flowing into the software firms that are otherwise lost to piracy.

        Therefore we should be looking forward to the days where Microsoft will sell WinXP and Office bundled together for a pittance and other software prices come crashing down due to the lack of piracy.

        It's what the industry has been claiming is one of the reasons why software costs are high, isn't it?

        But then again, I would more likely expect the prices to increase dramatically. The cynic in me says so.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • Just one Question (Score:4, Insightful)

    by da_Den_man ( 466270 ) <dcruise@hotcoffee.WELTYorg minus author> on Saturday January 04, 2003 @01:13PM (#5014422) Homepage

    I read how the DRM is bad, and I agree. As a customer, I would not ever purchase something that limited MY USE of it.

    The BSA is an extortion racket of the worst kind, not so much as what they purport to do, but rather in their methods of DOING It. The same can be said about the RIAA, MPAA, and even so much in the aspect of DRM.

    Which brings me to my question: When did I become a CONSUMER as opposed to a CUSTOMER?????

    I have seen the trend in the computer and electronics industry from as far back as 1995 to state that I, as a user of a certain product, no longer have the right to Support of that product when it messes up, that I no longer have the right to ALTER the product that I PURCHASED with my Hard Earned CASH to make it NOT prevent me from using it in a way that prevents it from messing up other items, and NOW, the fact that if I DO alter, fix, repair, modify or explore that product that I as a CUSTOMER bought, I can and will be prosecuted.

    This is not the America I grew up in. This is not the America I swore to defend.

    Yes, I know....Welcome to Corporate America. Where wars are fought not to win, but only to deplete the ever standing supply.

    The mantra has gone from "This we'll defend" to "You better BUY it NOW!!"

    • This is not the America I grew up in. This is not the America I swore to defend.

      Unless you're at least 50, this is the America you grew up in, because you've been a consumer since the first time Eisenhower sent a vacuum cleaner manufacturer to the Soviet Union to show them all about what freedom means to us. And it continued through the 1970s when Disco was the corporate tweeze and everyone was dismantling to manufacturing sector to buy powder for up their nose and the 1980s with the PMRC and Jack Valenti, who is pushing Dick Clark for longevity. And, oh yeah, the latter 1980s when everybody was sick of career politicians and wanted business people in office and hooray for Ross Perot. And people were pointing out the dangers of this the whole time, but nobody cared, so long as the trash gets picked up, and if anyone did notice, they were all called Paranoid, Commies, or Right Wingers. Guess what! Big, fat, hairy, thwacking surprise!

      And now you've noticed it. Oh, my. I bet they're just quaking in their boots at this new American Spirit.

      • I am glad you think this is something NEW to me. No, it is not, as I am not quite fifty, but I definitely remember the 60's, 70's and 80's.Probably from a different perspective than you could even imagine. I have cared since that time, I have served what I thought to be the America of my Youth, only to have it trashed and these aged politoco's and greed mongering Baby Boomers (ME generation indeed) try and limit what MY Kids will be capable of doing. I have sent the letters, the faxes, the petitions to my representatives in Congress and the Senate stating my opinion. It has not seemed to make a dent, yet I still persevere because Rights ARE being trampled.

        I doubt you can say the same.

  • Maybe the computer and consumer electronics manufacturers should cheerfully agree to implement DRM in all their products. But with a catch. Anything "flagged" for less than full user rights would be difficult or impossible to play. Pop-ups, klunky interfaces, using the good-old TV remote to dive into 8 levels of menus just to watch a single "protected" TV show. Give Hollywood all the "protection" they can stand, and then punish them brutally whenever they use it. After all, there will be no market for new computers or other electronic gizmos unless user rights are respected. Surely the manufacturers realize this.
  • Holy smokes, what is this world coming to that the Boy Scouts of America has to get in on the Anti-DRM fray!

  • When the elephants fight... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by infolib ( 618234 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @02:30PM (#5014848)
    the grass is trampled!
    -- ancient saying from Africa or somesuch.

     I'm only saying this since rash uninformed proverbs with no real content is a great way of getting "+5 insightful".
    Somebody was bound to post this, so I might as well get the karma...
  • The unspeakably evil seem to enjoy fighting with each other, since Satan and Saddam Hussein are having a lover's quarrel.

    OK, I sorta owe South Park for that one... ;)

  • ... when the BSA raids the RIAA to look for pirated software while the RIAA is raiding the BSA to look for illegally downloaded mp3s.
  • Bring on the DRM. In the past software has been used to circumvent software and hardware has been used to circumvent hardware (and one has been used to circumvent the other). So I predict nothing will change if hardware and software is legislated into being. However things will radically change if the piracy and copyright laws are strictly enforced.

  • I'm am reminded of this quote (Score:3, Funny)

    by racerx509 ( 204322 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @05:39PM (#5015721) Homepage
    Common enemies make strange bedfellows.

  • Just a little FYI.

  • Boy Scouts (Score:2, Funny)

    by nzilla ( 628715 )
    I too thought they meant the Boy Scouts of America. They're certainly one of my enemies, but I don't really see how they'd rank up with the RIAA and such here on /.

  • This makes perfect sense to anyone who understands (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Hyped01 ( 541957 ) on Saturday January 04, 2003 @07:23PM (#5016161) Homepage
    ...business. Microsoft does not want any DRM tool that is not theirs being implemented. The Hollings bill doesnt ratify and/or demand their (MS') solution. Thus, Microsoft... I mean the BSA... are against it.

    MS is the majority member, founding member and has the most control of, over and in the BSA. If you look at their neat figures and understand them, you will see that 90% of their "successes" battling piracy are MS related, and most instituted by MS.

    Of course MS will not endorse a bill that puts into question their (stolen) DRM technology, much less one that legislates how DRM will be implemented (regardless of who implements what).

    Rob

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