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Linux Port of Disciples 2 Announced 224

Posted by michael from the linux-gaming-now-slightly-less-feeble dept.
bobz writes "Happypenguin is reporting that Linux Game Publishing has announced the next game they'll port to Linux will be Disciples 2: Dark Prophecy a turn-based strategy game that was well-reviewed but not terribly successful commercially. /me breathes a sigh of relief that it's not another first-person shooter."
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Linux Port of Disciples 2 Announced More

Linux Port of Disciples 2 Announced

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  • they're fun, as long as you dont take them seriously, or believe that they will teach you how to clean and reload a weapon........
    • ...or actually want to be amused for more than ten minutes.

    • The fact that theres too damn many of them.

      Some of us want to play games that don't involve a first person perspective and blowing things to bits. Games that involve wider strategies, or more detailed plot structures or charachter development or improvement. Some of us just don't have the 1337 5ki11z to be good at FPS, ans prefer strategy or role playing games.

      Thats whats wrong with First Person Shooters.
      • Couldn't agree more.

        The fact is, I'm really quite good at first person games, but the more THINKING that's involved, the better. For instance, I prefer capture the flag to deathmatch, and prefer Return to Castle Wolfenstein to Quake 3 (much more strategy, in my opinion). Even better are the games that combine the best of FPS and add RPG elements, such as System Shock 2 or Deus Ex.

        What's great about Disciples II is that it's turn-based, which makes it great for the thinkers who aren't into twitch gaming, but makes network play rather tedious. If you haven't played it before, the gameplay is almost exactly like Heroes of Might and Magic, but with a dark and dreary gothic look to it. Brings out the Necromancer in you!

      • May I suggest giving Thief and Thief 2 a whirl? Described as first person sneakers, they require you to listen well, move with stealth and plan your actions. By far my favourite "FPS" series.

      • I agree. I'm very disappointed about Metroid Prime. Part of the appeal of the old Metroid game was the perspective... now it is just another of many of the same boring thing.
      • And RTSes are any better? While there's slightly less RTS titles than there are FPSes, there's still a horde of uninspired, derivative games out there; How many times can you remake Dune 2 (or whatever you consider the seminal RTS)?

        Besides, most RTSes have -some- flaw in the game balance that allows your to win, not neccessarily by applying strategy & thought but by abusing the game mechanics.
    • Well, editor, that may be your opinion, but to us gamers first person shooters are most 1337 game there is.
      I don't have 2 weeks to play a simulation or turn based game, or figure out a plot based walker, but I do have half an hour at the end of the work day to frag my IT buddies and then turn it off and walk away.
      My passion for the past year has been bzflag, the 100% open source multiplayer game made in the mold of battle zone. It is a little slower and more deliberate than the action packed quake or unreal, but I found that it takes real skill to keep your frag/death count positive.

      bzflag handle: xxxl
      still mourning the death of games.astercity
      • "gamers."

        "Gamers" play all sorts of things. That includes FPS's, which are, indeed, the most popular genre among many gamers, but as has already been pointed out *there is no particular shortage* of games available under Linux for those that enjoy FPS's.

        Gamers *do* also play stratagy games and walkthroughs that take hours, weeks and months to play. For them *another* FPS, even though most of them *also* play FPS's, is annoying. The poster was not antiFPS. He was anti oversaturation with FPS's when so many other genres go begging.

        You sir, are the sort who likes to kick back and play a game now and again to unwind ( and quite frankly most gamers would say that means you're only a guy who likes to play a game and wouldn't admit you to the rank of "gamer" in the first place) and there's nothing wrong with that. FPS's are nearly ideal * for you.* Not "gamers."

        I might also point out that turn based stratagy games are absolutely *perfect* for the person with limited time to play.

        And "gamers" think these games are, well, gamers don't use the term "1337" except faceciously.

        KFG

      • Well, editor, that may be your opinion, but to us gamers first person shooters are most 1337 game there is.


        I think myself an occasional gamer (with too little time for it), but personally I find non-realtime games more appealing than first person shooters. It's nice to be able to take a little break by reading newsgroups, browsing web, talking to phone etc. That's just not so simple with first person shooters.


        About the lack of time; the non-realtime games tend to have amazing features like "save game" too. ;) I've been playing Jagged Alliance 2 for a long time now, it doesn't really hurt if it's one battle per month or so.

  • Re-tar-ded! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @03:59PM (#4882969) Homepage Journal
    a turn-based strategy game that was well-reviewed but not terribly successful commercially. /me breathes a sigh of relief that it's not another first-person shooter

    Why in the hell would you port a game that won't bring in money? Honestly, porting games that bring in a TON of cash commercially do poorly in the Linux market, so who thinks that porting an unsuccessful game would bring in a profit?

    • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      maybe they were hoping that the linux community (being more tech-savvy etc etc) would be more inclined the play the critically acclaimed games....

      i'm not sure i agree with this reasoning, but maybe that's what they were thinking...

    • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Sloppy ( 14984 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:08PM (#4883046) Homepage Journal
      (I am ignorantly talking out of my ass here; I don't actually know the numbers.)

      The way that it could be profitable would be if the costs were low. Even if they only sell a few thousand copies, if the porting license and porting labor are cheap then it can be profitable. A more popular game might be less profitable, if the license if expensive or the effort high.

      • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by rmadmin ( 532701 ) <rmalek@@@homecode...org> on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:05PM (#4883419) Homepage
        I don't even see it that way. I'm pretty small time. Plus I'm not speaking in the context of a large (Mid/small) company. I think more TINY. :-) Anyway, if I were to start another business (first one failed, fsck!), I would think more small time. For instance. If I sell 1000 copies of a game at $20/game, thats $20,000. If I coded that myself and had little to no over head, I'd be happy with that. Now lets take 'a few thousand coppies'. Lets up the price to $25.00 and say 3000 copies. Thats $75,000. I'd definately be happy with that. :-) Of course, this is only speaking in terms of theory. Real world numbers tend to be a bit more jagged. Anyway. Thats my opinion.

    • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Jonny Ringo ( 444580 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:09PM (#4883060)
      Well the game is very simalar to "Hero's of Might and Magic". And I believe that did pretty well on Linux. I know I bought a copy.

    • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Kragg ( 300602 )
      Probably partly because there's no competition for it, but more likely because it's nearly portable already so they think it'll be easy.

    • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Wordplay ( 54438 )
      One reason is that a game that's just one of many in a genre in the Windows world stands alone more in the Linux world. If you want a commercial strategy game under Windows, you have a wealth to choose from. If you want one that runs natively under Linux, you only have a handful.

      Another reason is that I'm pretty sure the porting companies pay for the right to port and resell the game. Less successful games are, no doubt, cheaper to license.

      Finally, a game like Disciples 2 (which is an excellent game, btw) will likely do better among the Linux crowd than among the point-and-drool crowd. Not to be arrogant, but I think the people who are willing and able to do all the stuff one has to do to maintain a Linux box correctly are probably a little more cerebral than most.
      • Finally, a game like Disciples 2 (which is an excellent game, btw) will likely do better among the Linux crowd than among the point-and-drool crowd. Not to be arrogant, but I think the people who are willing and able to do all the stuff one has to do to maintain a Linux box correctly are probably a little more cerebral than most.

        Well, not that I wouldn't like to join your elitist circle-jerk... But I'm pretty sure that most of your -truly- discriminating gamers aren't using Linux because of the very supply problem you mention. I may not be a drooling Deer Hunter player, but I'm also necessarily less discriminating than some of my friends who simply won't use Linux because it lacks the games they want.

        That said, I still think your other reasons mean that Disciples will do quite well on Linux.

        • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Jason Earl ( 1894 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:46PM (#4883658) Homepage Journal

          This port isn't being marketed to gamers. PC Gamers run Windows.

          That was the problem with Loki. They went for the AAA+ games, paid huge money for the porting rights, and then released the Linux version 6 months behind the Windows version. To add insult to injury they mostly ported games that required high end graphics cards that were barely supported under Linux. That meant higher support costs than the Windows version.

          These guys strike me as being far more realistic. They are porting an interesting, but not very popular Windows game, and they waited to port until it was pretty clear that the game was a dud on Windows. Now they port it to Linux, advertise using inexpensive means (like /.'s front page :), and make a modest profit from guys like me whose other gaming alternative is NetHack.

          I am not interested in running Windows just so that I can run a game. I don't have the time to deal with the added aggravation of running Windows, but I still like games.

    • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:3, Interesting)

      by StarTux ( 230379 )
      How many games on Windows are actually profitable? Its a saturated market, with even good games being neglected as they do not get any "airtime".

      Also, I was surprised how many of the developers, especially in the simulation market, are no longer around. the makers of Flying Corps, Mig Alley and Battle of Britain are no longer with us in any real sense.

      Why are Tuxgames still going if there is no profit?

      StarTux
      • Because they developers live with their parents, have no social lives, and wear the same clothes, making their paychecks very reasonable when they have no overhead costs at home.

    • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Omnifarious ( 11933 )

      Because if the porting cost is small enough that Linux sales exceed it, then the game has made more money than it would've under just Windows.

      In fact, economically, it makes more sense for lower profit, easy to port games to be ported to Linux because they're the ones who's profits would increase by the largest percentage given a few extra sales.

    • Re:Re-tar-ded! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by 13Echo ( 209846 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:46PM (#4883306) Homepage Journal
      Maybe you don't play Linux games, but a lot of use that frequently visit linuxgames.com are excited about this. I suspected that this was the game thay they'd release when they hinted that the title was three words and a number, and frankly, I am pleased by this announcement.

      It might not be the most successful Windows game, but it is a fabulous strategy title. Check out reviews if you are not sure. Typically, this game has been given straight 9+ scores.

      Michael Simms of LGP has some great ideas. Plus, he realizes that many higher profile games for Linux just aren't practical right now. Licensing costs are just too high for many newer games. Trying to license the next big PC game (if the development house would even let them publish it) would spell certain doom for LGP. Look at Loki. It wasn't all about the fact that their sales weren't up to par. They chose some expensive titles to publish *before* they had a steady cash flow. They started with Eric's Ultimate Solitaire (bad choice for a platform that has a million free card games) but was a good choice because it was cheap. LGP is doing what they need to do... Starting small (Majesty Gold is coming soon, and Mindrover has been re-released) and working up. Big Windows game companies just don't notice them yet... But they are making ties with a few.

      They are playing it SMART. Regardless of how well it sells, D2:DP (DP - I love saying that) is a good choice because it is cheap for them. They also have their own retail channel through tuxgames.com (though they consider it a seperate company with a different budget and income), but this is going to be the key for their survival, when Linux games *do* become more practical.
    • I totally agree.

      I want WarCraft III, I want Dark Reign 3, Homeworld 2, StarCraft II, etc for Linux...

      Not no name titles that appeal to an audience that has a smaller following than the total number of RedHat servers out there.

      -Hack
  • it sure beats the hell out of MUD and Nethack...can't wait to see this in action.

  • Story title misread (Score:5, Funny)

    by MrEd ( 60684 ) <`ten.liamliah' `ta' `godenot'> on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:02PM (#4882999)


    Port 69, the Linux Port of Discipline.... mmmm.


    Good to hear they're up to 2.0, I hear that version 1 had some nasty bugs.

  • Let the conspiracy theories commence! (Score:5, Funny)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:03PM (#4883004) Homepage Journal
    OK, from the slashdot article:
    Posted by michael, written by bobz.

    From the happy penguin article:
    In IRC today, evil genius Michael Simms... , this article was written by bobz.

    I'll scratch your back if you'll scratch mine? I was wondering why a non-profitable game being ported to a market that has never been marketable (linux ported games) was a frontpage slashdot article. Now I know.
    • I know its all the rage with you kids to be cynical, but as I recollect the Slashdot community has a lot of Linux users in it *and* a lot of people who play computer games. If there is one general news blog I'd imagine this would be news this is it.

      You had an interesting observation, but its still news kid.
      • No, it's not news. It's a port of a crappy game, it's not being done for a good commercial reason, and it's not going to set the Linux community (or even gaming community) on storm.

        Furthermore, posting it without noting the relationship is bad journalism. It's a conflict of interest. At least when /. reports on stuff that their parent company or even distant cousin companies do they note the relationship. Frankly, Michael shouldn't have been the one to approve the story, and whoever did should've noted the relationship between a /. editor and the story.

        Of course, it's Michael. Why is anyone surprised? At all?

        • It's not being done for a good commercial reason.

          The money to develop this game has already been spent, if the Linux port isn't too terribly difficult (perhaps they used SDL in the original) then a port certainly can't hurt.

          The Linux market is a lot smaller than the Windows market, but there is also quite a bit less competition in this market. I know that I certainly am interested. As much as I like NetHack I am ready for something slightly more graphical.

        • Furthermore, posting it without noting the relationship is bad journalism. It's a conflict of interest.

          I agree! It's a clear conflict of interest when the poster of a story has the same first name as the story's subject! What the hell was Slashdot thinking???

        • Disciples 2? Crappy? Under which rock did you slither from?

          Turn based fantasy strategy at it's most addictive. Way better than HOMM..
        • Michael Sims, /. user 4716 and editor, posted a story about a game being ported by Michael Simms, user 580077. They are two different people. There is no reason Michael Sims ought not to have posted the news about Michael Simms' port. There is no conflict of interest just because they have similar names.

          And by the way, Disciples 2 was rated very highly by just about every review site out there. IIRC, Disciples 1 was multiple-GOTY awarded. However, Disciples 2 was not very well marketed. I would bet Disciples 2 will be on Gamespot's 2002 Awards for Best Game Nobody Played.
          • Yo, IT is not Michael Sims. But REALLY Michael Simms. So it could be the same guy. Because Michael Simms editor at slashdot has given interviews with CNN, answered questions with newsgroups using MICHAEL SIMMS as his name.

            I ain't saying it is the sam guy. But sho do look strange.

            Well I am gonna post this three times, so flame on, troll, do whatever. I dont care here is what a little investigation brought back. Maybe someone here can do a more digging with this evidence.

            The links are too articles and the articles are quoted below the links. Almost looks like to be the same Michael as Michael Simms from Slashdot has a uk email address in one. Isnt Linux Games UK based?

            Michael Simms..

            http://www.nylug.org/mlist/nylug-talk_mhonarc/20 01 -02/msg00396.html

            This an excerpt from an article about a LUG that interviewed Michael and Timothy from Slashdot. Please
            note Michaels last Name is SIMMS, not Sims. The same one as the Linux Gamers Guy.

            Please join us for a glimpse into "A Day in the life of a Slashdot
            Poster". Our presenters will be michael (Michael Simms) and timothy
            (Timothy Lord) of /. fame. Timothy and Michael will discuss Slashdot's
            history, what it's like working on one of the busiest sites on the Web,
            and other issues of importance to the Linux and Open Source community.

            http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/199 9- 07/msg00385.php

            This is an article where Michael Simms(Michael from Slashodot)responds to a forum question about slashdot
            and his return email is on a UK. Server, more wood for the fire?

            From: Michael Simms <grim@argh.demon.co.uk>
            To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker)
            Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Slashdot...
            Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:37:57 +0100 (BST)

            > Does anyone know what you have to do to get anything on slashdot? When
            > v6.5 and v6.5.1 was released, I posted something to Slashdot announcing
            > it, especially considering that the new MVCC code added by Vadim...

            To get anything on /. you need to have a very big stick and live close
            to rob so when he doesnt get round to posting information, you can
            beat him with it.
            If you dont live close to him, then the chances are about one in a
            billion it will get posted. You could always email linus and get him
            to mail rob, that will do it too {:-)

            Yep, making line Enos from the Duke of Hazzard today. I am on the case.

            Puto
        • Yo, IT is not Michael Sims. But REALLY Michael Simms. So it could be the same guy. Because Michael Simms editor at slashdot has given interviews with CNN, answered questions with newsgroups using MICHAEL SIMMS as his name.

          I ain't saying it is the sam guy. But sho do look strange.

          Well I am gonna post this three times, so flame on, troll, do whatever. I dont care here is what a little investigation brought back. Maybe someone here can do a more digging with this evidence.

          The links are too articles and the articles are quoted below the links. Almost looks like to be the same Michael as Michael Simms from Slashdot has a uk email address in one. Isnt Linux Games UK based?

          Michael Simms..

          http://www.nylug.org/mlist/nylug-talk_mhonarc/20 01 -02/msg00396.html

          This an excerpt from an article about a LUG that interviewed Michael and Timothy from Slashdot. Please
          note Michaels last Name is SIMMS, not Sims. The same one as the Linux Gamers Guy.

          Please join us for a glimpse into "A Day in the life of a Slashdot
          Poster". Our presenters will be michael (Michael Simms) and timothy
          (Timothy Lord) of /. fame. Timothy and Michael will discuss Slashdot's
          history, what it's like working on one of the busiest sites on the Web,
          and other issues of importance to the Linux and Open Source community.

          http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-general/199 9- 07/msg00385.php

          This is an article where Michael Simms(Michael from Slashodot)responds to a forum question about slashdot
          and his return email is on a UK. Server, more wood for the fire?

          From: Michael Simms <grim@argh.demon.co.uk>
          To: scrappy@hub.org (The Hermit Hacker)
          Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Slashdot...
          Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 02:37:57 +0100 (BST)

          > Does anyone know what you have to do to get anything on slashdot? When
          > v6.5 and v6.5.1 was released, I posted something to Slashdot announcing
          > it, especially considering that the new MVCC code added by Vadim...

          To get anything on /. you need to have a very big stick and live close
          to rob so when he doesnt get round to posting information, you can
          beat him with it.
          If you dont live close to him, then the chances are about one in a
          billion it will get posted. You could always email linus and get him
          to mail rob, that will do it too {:-)

          Yep, making line Enos from the Duke of Hazzard today. I am on the case.

          Puto
    • Let the modbombing begin!

      Have you gotten a life yet, or have you merely squandered your time making Slashdot posts?
    • Heh nooooo I am not the same as the slashdot micjael. The fact that we have the same name is just coincidence I tell you!
      Really, if I could post and approve stories to /. dont you think I'd have hundreds of stories promoting my companies by now {:-)

  • In case they get /.ed (Score:4, Informative)

    by pardasaniman ( 585320 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:03PM (#4883010) Journal
    Product Title Disciples 2: Dark Prophecy

    Available
    LanguagesEnglish

    Suggested Retail
    Price£30.00

    Product Description
    Disciples II: Dark Prophecy returns gamers to the magical realm of the Sacred Lands where four races - the Empire, the Mountain Clans, the Legions of the Damned and the Undead Hordes - continue the battle for the destiny of their Gods. A decade after the First Great War, the final prophecy continues to unfold. Deep within the crevices of the Sacred Lands, the Chosen One has emerged, fated to bring salvation to some and destruction to others. Braced with renewed faith and newfound conviction, each race must once again take up the sword for the sake of their people and the glory of their God.

    Disciples 2: Dark Prophecy comes in a DVD-style case on a single CD-Rom

    Current Status:
    Agreement signed, no development yet.
    Minimum RequirementsCurrently unknown
    Prerelease InformationRelease Date is currently not announced
    • "Suggested Retail

      Price£30.00"

      Who here in the States has £30.00 laying around?
    • I've played the first Disciples game--turn based limited DnD style hack-n-slash, with your party's characters standing in a 2 x 3 grid with no maneuvering, the opposing party also in a 2 x 3 grid. The "strategy" is scripted exploration of a very small maze-limited world. The "campaign" is that after you finish one maze the game takes you to the next. Bo-ring. A 20-line perl script could play this game to completion. I didn't.
  • Why not a FPS though, I mean those are the games the set the standard for graphics. From there you can build any game with superior graphics.

    By the way, why the onslaught of offtopic posts?

  • A Good Start... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by 9Numbernine9 ( 633974 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:07PM (#4883040)
    ... but is this the right approach?

    I'm a gamer, I'll admit, and I love seeing the great new games that come to market. And even moreso, I love it when these games work in Linux. Currently, I can get nearly every game I want to play to work in Linux. For the ones that don't, I wait patiently...

    However, I wish I could say the same for my friends - lots of them are thoroughly intrigued by the idea of Linux, and really want to switch to only Linux - but lack of support for newer games hold them back. I can certainly get what I want to play to work, but when my friends ask "But will Battlefield 1942 work?" I have to say "No." I think that work has to begin on either porting massively popular games, or convincing more devlopers to develop for Linux (although I am happy with progress so far!).

    As a side issue - wouldn't it be in LGP's best interest to work on porting games that are more comercially successful? I know that there's more to it than just getting people to switch to Linux, but I'd like to ensure that they can stay in business too!

    • Re:A Good Start... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Indras ( 515472 )
      ... I think that work has to begin on either porting massively popular games, ...

      More specifically, I think the market we're really forgetting is MMORPG's. Subscription-based games have a continuous cashflow, even if nobody else buys the games. Not to mention, for many MMORPG's, the server does the important calculating and keeps cheaters in check, so why does it matter what OS the client is running?

      That's why it was great back when I played Dragonrealms [dragonrealms.net] because it was basically a MUD, with a frontend client for any graphical OS.

      I'm sure there are plenty of Dark Age of Camelot and Asheron's Call addicts that would be more than happy to switch to Linux if they didn't have to give up gameplay (IIRC you can get EverQuest and Ultima Online to run in Linux, even though they're not specifically (sup)ported on it).
      • Probably something that will keep this from happening is simply: cost. Unlike a one-off game that may not require more than one post-release patch, a game in the MMO genre requires upkeep for years with frequent patching and constant testing.

        Granted not all of the patching is done for client-side aspects of the games but it is something to take into account and could, effectively double the cost of 'maintenance'. It's probably the reason we don't already see Mac versions of EQ, DAoC and the like even though I would imagine they would be more lucrative markets relative to Linux.

        And at one time there was an actual Ultima Online client for Linux. It was unofficial and maintained by programmers that left Origin fairly soon in UO's history. Worked good too.
      • I couldn't agree more with that point.

        Currently, Everquest and Ultima Online are being run successfully by people using WineX - and surely the developers of these games can see the benefits of this! At no up-front cost to them, people who wouldn't normally be in the market for their games are buying them, playing them, and giving them additional money every month!


        I'd love to see more help from these developers and publishers with aiding groups such as LDP and Transgaming in getting their games to wokr on alternate platforms.

    • Doesn't work that way. (Score:2, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I think that work has to begin on either porting massively popular games

      Off course all of us linux users would love to have every big name game available in a native linux port, but Linuxgamepublishing (LGP) has not choice but to contiue down this path.

      First off, game companies don't want to pay to have their games ported to Linux. LGP must pay the game company to port their game and also pay royalties on each copy to them as well in the same manner that Loki did (minus the corruption).

      I asked [linuxgames.com]Mike Simms about this a few weeks ago, and he brought up that new AAA titles are very expensive to port, so for LGP to be profitable they are mostly porting lesser known titles.

      It would be great if he could work with game companies as a consultant to port games, but the very small nubmer of companies that are willing to pay for this service are being served by icculus.org.
      Mike is a really nice guy and has no interest in competing with icculus for porting contracts.

    • Yes, it's the right approach. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Chris Burke ( 6130 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:49PM (#4883320) Homepage
      wouldn't it be in LGP's best interest to work on porting games that are more comercially successful?

      Short answer: No.

      Long answer: A game that is commercially successful is going to cost more to get a license for. Loki apparently payed several hundred thousand dollars for the rights to some of their games. Unsurprisingly, the immature Linux gaming market wasn't large enough for them to recoup their costs. That, along with mismanagement, is what buried Loki. LGP, not wanting to go bankrupt, is taking the much more conservative business model (remember that, from before the .com boom?) of buying rights to less successful games. They're going to be much cheaper, and thus require much fewer sales to recoup the costs of. With the dearth of Linux games, users are going to buy the game if it interests them whether or not it's a big-name title. For example, I never would have heard of Disciples if I was still using Windows. But because I use Linux and I crave HOMM-like gameplay, I'll be buying the only new game in that genre, namely Disciples 2. What's the point? To make money. Not a ton of money, but to make money. If LGP can profit off of Disciples, then they can afford to do another game. Maybe a bigger-name game. Each game they can profit off of grows not only themselves but the Linux game market. With a slow, conservative approach they have a much better chance of being successfull than if they bought a $300,000 game, lost $1 mill, then went bankrupt.

      The reason you think work has to begin on porting massively popular games seems to be because of a common, but incorrect line of thinking: That Linux has to become a major desktop success right now. It doesn't. Modest, sustainable growth in Linux gaming is the correct method, and the one that will work. Maybe the size of the market will reach a critical mass and be able to grow much more rapidly, but trying to force that day to come sooner by over-reaching is a recipe for failure. LGP learned this lesson from Loki, and I think they learned the right one.

      • Exactly right. This game sounds pretty interesting, and they almost certainly can get the rights to the port for a song. Even better, instead of competing against the mulititude of good Windows games the Linux port of Disciples 2 will basically be competing against NetHack. The desktop Linux market might be small, but it is large enough to support an effort like this as long as they keep it conservative.

        • Even better, instead of competing against the mulititude of good Windows games the Linux port of Disciples 2 will basically be competing against NetHack.

          Heh. I dunno, Nethack is some pretty tough competition. Though I do normally need something else to play after my latest promising Priestess dies because I accidentally touched a cockatrice. I need a week or so to recover emotionally, and some nice HOMM-like gameplay would be just the ticket. :)

      • The reason you think work has to begin on porting massively popular games seems to be because of a common, but incorrect line of thinking: That Linux has to become a major desktop success right now. It doesn't.

        Yes, it does. Or, rather, it has to in the near future. The reason? Palladium and TCPA.

        If Microsoft retains its current dominance, then the combination of Palladium in their OS and TCPA in the hardware will eventually lead to a hardware platform that will not boot anything but a "trusted" operating system, and we all know that "trusted" is measured by the large corporations, not by the end user.

        Only if Linux on the desktop becomes popular enough quickly enough will we avoid the situation where we're forced to pay massively inflated prices for "server" hardware (because the only reason you would want to run an "untrusted" operating system is if you're running a "server", right?).

    • Simple answer...The AAA+ games are just too expensive to port right now. I know what you mean exactly, but we have to be patient and continue to support with what we have. LGP seem to be taking a different approach from Loki Games with this.

      Try this, there are so many games coming out for Windows right now, no doubt your friends have missed some of them along the way, perhaps you could point out they can now play games that they may like and have missed on Linux now and in doing so they will help create a larger Linux market...Once it becomes big enough you'll see those ports come a lot faster :).

      StarTux

    • I think the right approch would be to convince the big game developers to use common standards such as OpenGL to write their games. That way it should be trivial to port the program to other OSs. If they just had to recompile to create binaries for Linux, Mac OS X, FreeBSD, or BeOS, then I think we'd see many more ports than we do now.

  • TBS, FPS....Linux (Score:2, Interesting)

    by greymond ( 539980 )
    not to be a buggaboo or anything - but when will a really good RPG or Action adventure come to Linux (and don't tell me Nethack or Wyvern) - granted Neverwinter Nights is going to come out for linux and that's great - but I want to see a (IMHO) FUN RPG (like FF, DW, Septerra core, Chrono Cross, Skys of Arcadia) come out or be ported to Linux - i'd even be willing to helpout with a project like that....

    but of course I guess most nix people really like TBS and FPS types....since thats most of the game's i've seen for it...

  • Shameless Plug (Score:4, Informative)

    by JohnFluxx ( 413620 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:09PM (#4883071)
    Hi,
    I'm currently working a 3D version of Freecraft, which in turn is a 3D version of Warcraft.
    It is comming along quite nicely, and if anyone would like to give a hand with the models or coding or anything, you would be welcome.

    See a kinda old screenshot at http://130.88.226.154/snap4.png
    The game is progressing very quickly - trees are in now, units expected with a week, etc.

    Anyway, message me through slashdot or email or anything.
    • Sorry for replying to myself, but just a quick point about the apparent lack of game from the screenshots... The game engine and ai and everything is already done by the freecraft people.

      The networking code is the main thrust of this project - the client is a kinda proof-of-concept.

      This project is to show that you can make a game client-server, and then allow very rapid development.

      I intend to prove the point by linking the 3D game to a game like freeciv, and aim to do that in 2 days flat!

      The communications backend is being done using a lot of the worldforge.org libraries.

      If anyone is trying or wanting to develop an rts game, have a look at my work to take some serious shortcuts. :)

      JohnFlux
    • I'm currently working a 3D version of Freecraft, which in turn is a 3D version of Warcraft.

      So that would make your game, what... a 9D^2 version of Warcraft?

  • You can also purchase the 1.07 version of MindRover and buy an update for the original version of the LokiGames release (which will also enable you to get future updates.

    Information here:

    http://www.linuxgamepublishing.com/info.php?id=9

    Finally, got my own linuxsimulations.org site going, to help cover Linux Simulations that run on Linux, which is a neglected area at teh moment.

    StarTux
  • But yeah. Plenty of them out there. The reason I
    like them is that there is no time commitment. You
    are in and out and it's over. No need to find the
    mystic jewel of donut or anything like that. What
    I'd REALLY like to see is a kickass multiplayer
    online racing game. Something that's as good as a
    playstation2 racing game. Need For Speed 8, where
    you race against online players through super
    realistic maps of real life cities. Twould (yeah,
    invented a word) rule to blow by other online
    players in a ferrari spyder with the top down on
    lakeshore drive, or US 1, or route 66.

  • Ummm...Why? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by jayhawk88 ( 160512 )
    OK, don't take this as a troll (and no I'm not just saying that to Karma Whore), but what kind of a choice is this for a Linux port? Having never played the game myself, I won't comment on whether it's good or not, but I can comment on the interest this will recieve with your average gamer: 0.

    Seriously, if you're going to go to all the trouble of porting a game, why wouldn't you want to port a big-name title that might actually generate some interest? Where's The Sims? Where's Civilization 3? Where's Warcraft 3? Where's Unreal Tournament? Hell, where's the Half Life client?

    Is it just the developers that make this difficult? Are the small guys (or obscure games) the only ones willing to play ball? Are there GPL issues at work here? I really can't understand how a developer/publisher would object to some company wanting to port their game to another platform, assuming they could work out some kind of deal where the original developer/publishing house would get a portion of profits made. Is it a fear of quality control? (Which, if true, is really funny if you've patched...er, played a major release video game in the past 5 years).

    Seriously, this is not meant to be an anti-linux troll or flame. I'm really interested in what the major road-block here is. Sorry to any Disciples 2 fans out there, but releases like this will do next to nothing to generate interest in big-time Linux gaming.
    • How dare you

      linux has Tux Racer

      and some ass-y pacman thing

      it's going to put microsoft out of business any day now!

    • Re:Ummm...Why? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by nelsonal ( 549144 )
      Because all of the big games have two parts to cost, porting costs and licensing costs. I would guess that porting costs would vary from game to game, but licensing costs would be directly proportional to the games popularity. For a start up today funding is what the founder has in a checking account, it would be better to start with something that will cost little to license. Serious Sam might be another choice, but competitive issues might be a problem there.
      Now the company that wrote the game could port it, but they probably realize that the market is very limited, how many linux desktops are out there, and how many of them are ever used for more games that xBill. Let's face it most linux users who game at all keep a windows machine around for games. Because of this, the linux games are competing for a very small market. Additionally, the last company that tried to port games to linux failed fairly rapidly because they couldn't recoup their costs. Why would anyone take the risk of porting a huge name?

  • It's a great game, but the replay value is limited (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kjella ( 173770 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:18PM (#4883139) Homepage
    I've played it through, all four campaigns, and the game itself is great. However, the computer is too easy to fool (even on Very Hard), though I felt the same in HOMM3 (haven't played HOMM4), so I guess that's not just this game.

    Playing it multiplayer is a whole different beast, but I really don't like it. All too much depends on who sees who first and can beef up/spellblast to make the actual fight completely uneven.

    Personally I feel it was well worth the money, but once you finish the campaigns it's not much more to do, the scenarios aren't that interesting. It's a game to play once, win, and find the next good one in the bin. But that's fine with me, I got bored with Morrowind because it was *too* big - I had to get a solve to actually get anywhere with the main quest - I was winning every battle, but didn't find the right battles to fight....

    Kjella

  • Disciples 2 Review (Score:2, Interesting)

    by sputnik73 ( 579595 )
    I remember playing the demo of the original Disciples, a game that emerged as a sleeper hit in a genre that had been dominated by the Heroes of Might & Magic series. I found Disciples easier to get into than HOMM, and thus I thought it had great potential. So when the Disciples II demo was released, I immediately downloaded it and began playing. I wasn't disappointed. I played and experimented for hours on end. Suddenly forgotten were all of the other games I'd been playing for weeks: Battle Realms, Galactic Battlegrounds, Throne of Darkness.

    Disciples II: Dark Prophecy is a fine, addictive turn-based strategy game that will have you up all hours of the night, unable to tear yourself away from the computer.

    After immersing myself in the demo for two weeks and alienating myself from my family, I was compelled to purchase the game. Unfortunately, CompUSA did not have the collector's edition on the shelf, so I settled for the regular edition.

    I haven't been able to stop playing since I bought it.

    The oddest part is, I've never been a fan of turn-based strategy. I could just never get into it. Disciples II has opened my eyes to a whole new world of gaming. It's that rare game that offers a thoroughly satisfying experience.

    The Disciples series has been and will continue to be compared to HOMM (which is readying for a release of its fourth installment). One of the things that jumps out as a striking difference is the graphics. While both games boast some very attractive images, Disciples is a decidedly darker game and more grounded, it seems, in the fantasy setting. And while HOMM's combat screen is moving to a more isometric and zoomed-out perspective, Disciples II adheres to a combat interface that displays large images of the units, which makes for more detailed characters and interesting animations.

    The units in the game are quite varied and boast some intriguing--and even amusing--abilities. In one battle, for example, I put my Undead Hordes army, consisting of a Death Knight, Doomdrake and Fighter, up against a neutral army that included two magic-using units that could transform my units. My Doomdrake was transformed into a huge blubbery Jabba-the-Hut figure for a number of rounds and, when attempting to attack in this state, would simply fall over backwards. It was a frustrating battle, but I somehow prevailed. And beware of armies with Ghouls and Ghosts or Specters. These units can paralyze your units. You'll spend round after round watching your units be paralyzed and pummeled.

    One of the great features of the game is RPG-like development of your units. Some of the most important decisions you make will be the upgrade paths you choose. The upgrade paths determine the abilities, strengths and weaknesses of your advanced units.

    One of the things you'll quickly discover is that you have to build balanced parties in order to survive your battles. Units have various immunities, so if you assemble an army of units with the same kind of attack, you'll likely encounter an enemy with an immunity to it and find yourself getting thrashed. Elements like this add a lot of tactical decision making to the gameplay.

    The only real complaint I can lodge about the game at this point is that the retreat feature seems to me to be rather flawed. Retreating from combat usually means death to your party. I'd really like to see a patch to improve this feature so that you can bow gracefully out of a battle when you find yourself overmatched. In a game where economy is important and resources are contested, it's just too expensive to lose a whole group of units, which occurs more often than not when you attempt to retreat.

    All in all, Disciples II is a very satisfying and challenging game. I can only hope that Strategy First will continue to release add-ons and sequels to the series, because I am thoroughly hooked.

  • Not yet another... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by nule.org ( 591224 )
    Not yet another *insert overdone gametype here*

    It seems that no matter what kind of game this is, it deserves the comment "Oh, not yet another *blank*". Not yet another FPS. Not yet another RTS. Not yet another MMORPG. I'm not just talking about Linux here, there just isn't a whole lot of variety out there *period*.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm a Linux gamer and I'm pleased to see more coming out. I really love UT2K3 and my copy of NWN is pre-ordered. I hate TBS, so I'll pass on this one probably, unless I find it on the cheap somewhere. I bought a bunch of Loki games just to support them and look where that got me (crickey - Postal is a crappy game).

    But back to my off-topic - are there any unique ideas out there about game-types? We have our FPS and our strategy games (TBS and RTS). We have RPGs including MMORPGS, real-time, turn-based, hybrid, 3d and isomorphic. There are card games and economic sims (I *heart* gazillionaire), empire builders and even bridge builders. But when was the last time you saw something new? The Sims? Boy are we in trouble.

    Does anybody have a really cool and unique idea you could let us in on?

    • Cubivore for GameCube. Mister Mosquito for PS2. Jet Grind Radio for Dreamcast.

      Frankly, the Japanese are the only ones trying to do things really different from the American or European game studios. Most of the games either never get over here, or are relegated to the novelty or Nipponophile markets. I'm frankly amazed that Cubivore and Mister Mosquito made it over to this side of the Pacific. Anyone who's looking for something different, stay away from American game designers. We push the limits of the genres, but no one with any money here is willing to create any new ones. Just subdivide the ones we already have.

  • Who's played this game? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by IsoRashi ( 556454 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @04:31PM (#4883227)
    I played it some on my friend's computer. While it's a decent game, I don't think being ported to Linux will turn it into a smash hit. Which makes me question why they decided to port *this* game rather than some other one.

    Anyway, this game is simply a turn based strategy game. Here's the problem though--there's very little flexibility. You choose, in the beginning, from one of like 4 or 5 different races. The units you have access to vary from race to race. You also pick an archetype for "your" character. You never actually use this character, but it is supposed to represent your warlord. You can be one of three types: a warrior-type, a caster-type, or a rogue-type. All three types have the exact same abilities across all the different races.

    It resembles Heroes of Might & Magic somewhat as well. When you start the game, you pick a type of hero. There are maybe 5 types of heroes you can choose from, one of them being designated a sort of "flag carrier" that claims territories and resources for you. This hero's melee abilities suck, and s/he can basically have a single unit travel with them (to soak up some damage while the hero runs). The hero, unfortunately, is necessary to progress in and win the game. This drops you down to the following heroes: warrior, caster, archer, rogue. Warriors pack a whallop, casters hit everything on the screen, archers attack from the back and do some nice damage, rogues... well, do roguish things. Heros can also have some different abilities depending on which race they come from. For example, the "wizard" hero of the Undead gains back a percentage of the damage he deals with each attack. From there you can add a certain number of units to your hero's group. You can equip items to grant bonuses, etc. etc. etc. At the end of each scenario you get to pick *1* hero, and a limited number of items to bring with you to the next scenario. All other heroes vanish, and the heroes in the next scenario (unless story-line related) will start at lvl 1.

    The one thing I liked about the game was that as you upgraded your home city, you had to choose different paths. I can't recall specifics, but as an example, say I wanted to upgrade my dwarven crossbowmen. I might have a choice between upgrading them to do more damage against a single target, or having them do their damage against all targets.

    One thing that I don't like about this game is that it lacks replay value beyond playing through the different races. Each scenario has resources in the same place. Each scenario will have monsters in the same place. I think the only item that really varies is perhaps the strength of a group of monsters (e.g. 3 goblins instead of 4), and the items that you find. The fact that the maps and a lot of things were static and inflexible kind of spoiled it for me. I guess I'm still looking for another Master of Magic.

    The game is worth a playing through once if you've got lots of spare time, but it's not something I would ordinarily be drawn to. Once again, I'm not sure why they chose *this* game to port. Maybe someone on the team can shed some light.
    • Hmmmmm. On comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic, the two games that I'm aware of that most frequently get compared with Master of Magic are "Age of Wonders" (now there's a sequel, IIRC, as well) and Illwinter [illwinter.com]'s "Dominions". Of the three, I only have the last.

      I'll mention some +/-. There's also a demo (for Windows, Linux, Solaris, and Mac OS X if memory serves), and the manuals for the full version are downloadable from their site.

      High-level notes:
      Turn-based strategy, PBEM/TCP capable, High Magic fantasy, very very complex, no orders given during tactical combat (e.g. your armies fight in whatever formations you assigned them, and execute whatever orders you scripted if you gave any). Unilateral victory only (be the only god worshipped in the world, or be the only god who owns any provinces). No in-game diplomacy, but you can send items/money. Not campaign based. No random map generator included, but somebody's made one.

      14 quite different themed races that differ quite a bit. Some are more flexible than others. They vary in terms of "national" units (which you can train where you have a fortress; otherwise, you need to rely on native troops from the province), magical capabilities, and sometimes special abilities (e.g. one race's units might heal afflictions). Magic can be boosted, but if you can't find the magical resources in the first place it'll be rather slow. Likewise, you may be able to fix gaps in your troop lineup with recruits from indy provinces, but if you're looking for something rare like assassins, that's far from guaranteed.

      8 main paths of magic (air, earth, fire, water, death, nature, astral, blood), which have varying strengths and weaknesses. Fire magic, for instance, has far more offensive capabilities than Nature magic, while Death magic is the best for either raising or destroying undead. And blood magic offers Demon Lords in exchange for people...

      Magic is also divided by areas, e.g. Conjuration, Alteration, et al. For instance, your nation needs to have researched Enchantment 5 before casting "Thunder Ward", if memory serves -- and the caster needs to be at least a 3rd level Air Mage, taking into account items and expended magical resources. There are... a LOT of spells and items which can be forged. Some of the spells affect the whole world... (a few are nasty enough that in a multiplayer game, casting one would probably be enough to convince everybody to gang up on you...).

      Nations come with a set of national units. Other qualities are customizable -- you get a point budget. This point budget can go into designing your god's avatar (a more powerful body costs more, for instance) and starting him off with magic (e.g. you might have an Archmage with level 2 or 3 in multiple paths, but it'll cost you). The same points can also be spent on choosing what type of castle you'll have (which affects how strong its defenses are, how it'll hold up under siege, how well taxes will be collected et al). Furthermore, points can be spent into different scales, e.g. Growth/Death, Industrious/Lazy, Magic/Mundane, Hot/Cold; these effects will affect lands that worship your deity.

      All-in-all, it's very complex, and a bit addictive if you have even a trace of megalomania...

      Downsides... mainly focus on the interface, which isn't exactly pretty. Some irritating repetition is necessary, e.g. when storming a castle there's no way to select ALL commanders and give them the order to storm -- you have to give each 'Storm' order individually. The sequel will apparently be more manageable, with things like a proper research pool et al.
    • Or, you could just read a review.
      http://www.sgo.cc/reviews/disciples_2/ind ex.shtml

    • Re:Do you think they'd port Neverwinter Nights? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Maul ( 83993 ) on Friday December 13, 2002 @05:03PM (#4883406) Journal
      Bioware has been promising their Neverwinter Nights Linux Client since the beginning. It was SUPPOSED to be released at the same time as the Windows client, however, it ended up not being that way.

      Bioware is still doing the Linux port themselves.
      They have screenshots and promise that the thing will be released, eventually.

      More info can be found here... [bioware.com]

      However, now that the expansions have been announced, I don't know if Linux ports will be made of those expansions, and if they are, they will probably lag behind.
  • I played through Disciples 2, and highly recommend it if you enjoy turn-based strategy/Heroes-style games. Its greatest strength was its art -- it probably had the best 2d art and hand-painted animation I've ever seen in a game.

    These shots don't quite do it justice, but are still pretty nice:
    Shot 1 [disciples2.com]
    Shot 2 [disciples2.com]
    Shot 3 [disciples2.com]
    Shot 4 [disciples2.com]

    Now... I can't speak to this as a practical economic decision, but on its own merits, the game is definitely worth porting.

  • Nobody will buy it (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'm sorry, but nobody will buy the linux port because the windows version is selling for $9.99 in CompUSA. Unless the porting is dirt cheap and they can sell the linux version for around 10 bucks, they are facing the same fate as Loki.
  • A quick question about the multiplayer for those that have played the windows version. Is there multiplayer? The only type that I saw mentioned was hot seat. I've been looking around for a nice slow paced strategy game lately and this might be it. I'd still like to be able to play it with my friends online though.
  • I think it's an interesting business model. Video games rely heavily on advertising and so even a good game has a good chance of not being recognized.

    Linux users are somewhat of a captive audience. They are somewhat more educated and probably more likely to read a review of a game at least once before getting it. Also, they are more likely to see any particular game because of the low number of high quality games available. If a game does not do well in the main stream because it was overshadowed, it didn't apply to the majority of people, or maybe it just wasn't so completely innovative that it captured everyone that had contact with it, then market it to a smaller market where quality, (thought not necesarily originality), matters. A market that is actively looking for good, quality games.

    I think it's interesting that the market for linux games developed for profit is slowly increasing. It began with the FPS's, but it is now moving more into the simulation and RPG geners. I hope that the pattern holds, and no matter how slowly, the linux game market becomes as plentiful as the windows game market.

  • I would like to see them port...

    AOE (Age of Empires)
    AOE II (Age of Kings)
    AOM (Age of Mythology)

    I realize it is NOT BLOODY likely, considering they are M$ games, but I can hope..

    Greatoak
  • Whether or not releasing a port of some old Windows game makes good business sense is debatable. But what are these people thinking when they spend good time and money porting a game that wasn't successful on Windows ? If it ain't successful on Windows, how do they expect to make their money on Linux, where there are far fewer gamers ? Wouldn't it make more sense to port some game that was moderately succesful ? Maybe this is some stealth MS project designed to make Linux look really bad...
  • ...chosen to port the infinity engine games. All of the games are basically the same in terms of design and what not, you port one you port them all. And obviously, most Linux users are the geeky kind: we like RPG's, and I would bet alot of money that half of the people reading Slashdot right now own an Infinity engine game.
    • ...that porting the infinity engine would allow to rapidly make mods and expansions - Linux only expansions. Also, official expansion packs could easily be ported, probably very near to the actual date of the Windows release.
  • I am always frequenting Linuxgames.com [linuxgames.com] for information, help new users run their applications on Linux, and to then throw a cape on my back and post as the Alpha Troll [mailto]. I was contacted by a representative of the Linux Game Publishing [linuxgamespublishing.com] group about their interest in porting their current project "Majesty" to the clean 64bit Alpha platform. LGP's main office, from what I understand, is somewhere in London and they have a small workforce in Tustin-California. I have not received word from them for about 1 month on whether they would like for me to schedule a drop-off of a good Alpha Linux|netBSD computer. For those of you that say Alhpa is dead...you are dead wrong. Also of use to commercial developers, the Alpha platform offers benefit of a clean code-path to port software to other 64bit platforms in the future.

    LGP is quite a promising group of people. They're working alongside Tuxgames [www.tuxgames] to sell their software. If you support Linux, you should purchase all your software from Tuxgames. As for Happypenguin [happypenguin.org], this news is 24 hours old and Linuxgames.com [linuxgames.com] posted an article [linuxgames.com] before they did :-) . Happypenguin.org covers more home-brew games than Linuxgames.com, but when it comes to commercial games they both offer competitivly insightful forums. For the greatest source of gaming news in europe, HOLARSE [holarse.net] is the place to go (PS: use babelfish).

    In fact, just now, Linuxgames.com has an article [linuxgames.com] about how LGP [linuxgamepublishing.com] is taking over the porting effort of Mindrover: Eruopa Project. And one last thought, Linuxgames.com doesn't censor their forums, unlike Happypenguin.org

  • that they never port the popular MMORPG's? such as EQ and DAOC? These are probably the biggest fanatic driven games out there... a huge number of the people playing these games ONLY play their one RPG and do virtually nothing else on the machine, these would be perfect candidates for a port since they aren't tied to their OS except for the game. I know several people who play EQ or DAOC and keep dual-boots just for this purpose...
  • I guess there are a few ways to read that headline. At first reading, I figured a few "disciples" had gotten together and made a distribution of Linux... figured they called it "Port of Disciples". And now they're announcing their second version, considering the raving success of the first version.

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