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Games Entertainment

Bradley Trainer Support in MAME 0.62 179

Posted by Hemos from the train-on-the-big-boys dept.
TheAlchemist writes "The Bradley Trainer was a modification to Atari's Battlezone arcade game created for the US Army to help train personel in the use of the Bradley Fighting Vehicle. Supposedly only two of these machines were built, and of the two only one of them is known to exist today. The latest version of the arcade enumator MAME (0.62) has support for the Bradley Trainer, which hasn't been emulated until now. Pictures and more information of the Atari Bradley Trainer be found on this site, and screenshots of it running in MAME can be found here."
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Bradley Trainer Support in MAME 0.62 More

Bradley Trainer Support in MAME 0.62

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  • Great... (Score:5, Funny)

    by EvilCabbage ( 589836 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:32PM (#4703414) Homepage
    Now I need to worry about impressionable school kids in trench coats carrying tanks as well?

    Better start carrying a few extra lives with me.

    • America's Army (Score:4, Funny)

      by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Tuesday November 19, 2002 @12:26AM (#4703680) Journal
      Laugh now. Then wait until some ambulance-chaser files suit against the US government for a school shooting caused by the America's Army video game. :-(
      • I was just playing that thing actually, downloaded it yesterday and started tonight.

        What a disappointment. I've seen this game before, it's called Counterstrike.

        No single player levels that I found, and tiny levels that play just like CS.
        • No single player levels that I found...

          It sounds like you may have missed the whole point: America's Army was designed explicitly as a realistic squad tactics simulator. There was never any intention of creating single-player scenarios, or long scenarios, or deathmatch scenarios, or whatever.

          I've never played CS, so I don't know how much overlap there is, and I can't say AA is my favorite game or anything, but if you do a little research, you may discover that AA occupies a pretty unique space in the FPS genre.

    • From the looks of the screenshots.. it's even worse.. stick-figure tanks..
      • That's because the original BattleZone, of which the trainer was a modification, used "stick-figures" or a sort of "wire frame". BattleZone is ,after all, older than dog dirt >:)
      • Welcome to the world of vector graphics.

        Games like Tempest [klov.com] and Asteroids [klov.com] were originally vector as well. Quite interesting, yet different if you're used to only raster games.

  • To the actual arcade hardware? It seems like it would be able to run on a standard issue machine of the time. Were there any "trade secrets" involved in the game. If not, then why not mass market the trainer as an arcade machine. It would have recieved my quarter.
    • Forget about trade secrets, if this trainer had any kind of classifed national security info in it, you'd be looking at hard time in Leavenworth for distributing it. However, since the web page has a download link for the ROM and the Feds having busted down the guy's door, I'd say this was a crude simulator based for basic gunnery skills and didn't reveal any detailed info about the capabilities of the Bradley.

      And about the arcade hardware, the article says there was 1 wirewrap circuit board added on, and they replaced the dual joysticks with a star wars flight yoke which is similar to the Bradley's gun controller.
    • >why not mass market the trainer as an arcade machine

      Maybe they were embarrassed by the fact that the trainer for an armored personnel carrier (or "fighting vehicle" as they call it) had such...well crappy graphics. Hell, it certainly doesn't look like much more than a simple arcade game with wire-frame graphics to me.

    • Re:Any special Modifications (Score:4, Insightful)

      by FyRE666 ( 263011 ) on Tuesday November 19, 2002 @12:34AM (#4703699) Homepage
      If you'd read the actual story (imagine that?!) you'd have noticed the trainer had extra controls, and was more of a simulation than a game. The "player" did not control the tank itself, only the gun turret which would probably not excite teenagers out to whup some vector-based ass...

  • you know... (Score:5, Funny)

    by Savatte ( 111615 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:34PM (#4703425) Homepage Journal
    it's still illegal to play the rom unless you own the original, which, especially in this case, is highly doubtful.

    • Re:you know... (Score:3, Insightful)

      by GigsVT ( 208848 )
      Maybe not.... Since the work of government employees is public domain, if this was created by government employees, then at least the modifications are public domain, which seems to mean it would be legal if you own the original battlezone. If they contracted this out, which is likely, then it might be illegal.

      I guess the bigger question is... who the hell is going to care enough to sue you over something like this?
      • If the work of government employees is public domain, where is the source code for Carnivore?
        • There's been an FOIA request out for that for a long time. Some of the details of Carnivore are on the FOIA website, but much of them are blacked out. One of the problems (besides the government not wanting to give it up) is that uncle sam licensed a lot of the pieces of carnivore from other companies, meaning they can't go releasing the source to those part. Granted it was probably just an excuse not to release it.

  • The Bradley (Score:3, Informative)

    by Dr_LHA ( 30754 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:35PM (#4703433) Homepage
    Would this be a trainer for the same Bradley who's development and general crapness was lampooned by this movie? [imdb.com]

  • Looks like the GeforceFX will work well with this. (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The roar of the tank and the roar of the vid card will cancel each other out.

  • kewl (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tumbleweed ( 3706 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:42PM (#4703474)
    I didn't realize tanks had score and high score displays in them! Schweet. :)

  • in other news... (Score:5, Funny)

    by nuckin futs ( 574289 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:44PM (#4703488)
    The US Air Force is using a modified version of Choplifter originally from the Apple II to train its personnel for the Commanche Helicopter.

  • seems a bit easy to me (Score:4, Insightful)

    by myowntrueself ( 607117 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:45PM (#4703489)
    "The other tanks do not fire at you, and the only way to end the game is to run out of ammo or shoot a 'friendly' tank or helicopter"

    So, uh, this is a faithful simulation of actual American war fighting methodologies?

    I mean, you are in a Bradley, flying a US flag presumably.
    Right, so who would *dare* to shoot at you?

    • RTA. This is not a sim to help train personnel on combat tactics, but rather, to teach the importance of ammo conservation, and more importantly, identifying who you've got in your crosshairs before you pull the trigger. You shoot a friendly, it's game over man, game over.
      • Ok so if you are at war and you kill a friendly the game is over, right?

        My thought, though, was Saddam getting his hands on one of these babys;
        "ahhh I believe I have discovered a flaw in the strategy of the evil Americans...They will not be expecting our troops to fire back at them! Muwahahahaaaa"

        Hilarity ensues, and all that.
      • You shoot a friendly, it's game over man, game over.

        Tell that to the British, Canadians, members of the Red Cross, Chinese Embassy workers, and assorted Afghan wedding parties.

        If only the USAF had trained with this simulator the bloodshed could have been avoided!

        • Upwards of 30% of Allied casualties in the ETO in 1943-1945 were from fratricide.

          You put a British Army Warrior IFV next to a Soviet BMP-2 and then look at it through FLIR at night through smoke, sleet/rail and clouds and tell me how the AH-64s and A-10s were suposed to get 100% of the targets ID'ed right.

          It's not like Command and Conquer out there, you don't have to hold an extra key down to target friendlies.

          The situation with the Canadians in Afghanistan was a screw up, and the pilots you will note are not flying anymore, so it's game over for them.

          As for the Chinese Embassy, it's funny how that PGM targeted the wing of the building with the Intelligence Attaches isn't it?
        • It's shocking what gaps are in the knowledge of the public...the Chinese Embassy bombing was due to the Chinese using their embassy transmitters to relay commands from the Serbian command to the units in the field in Kosovo. The Chinese took sides, and ergo were targets. The Afghan wedding party was an successful Al-Qaeda disinformation campaign. AQ did the killing, but hey you won't hear that on the `objective` media.
    • "The other tanks do not fire at you, and the only way to end the game is to run out of ammo or shoot a 'friendly' tank or helicopter"

      So, uh, this is a faithful simulation of actual American war fighting methodologies?
      -----

      the way the persian gulf war went down, the other tanks rarely got a chance to fire at all, and there were more friendly fire incidents than enemy deaths.... so, yeah. :)

  • WTF (Score:5, Insightful)

    by almightyjustin ( 518967 ) <dopefishjustin AT gmail DOT com> on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:46PM (#4703495) Homepage
    arcade enumator MAME

    "enumator"?!?!?! That was painful even by /. standards...

    • Re:WTF (Score:2)

      by LS ( 57954 )
      It could of been a joke, like Internet Exploiter or Nutscrape 6.

      Hmm, probably not.

  • What is an "enumator"? (Score:5, Funny)

    by JessLeah ( 625838 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:47PM (#4703502)
    Maybe they meant "enumerator". I always wanted to enumerate an arcade. (Only every time I went in an arcade, I just kept "enumerating" my losses in quarters...)

  • Marble Man (Score:2, Interesting)

    by matthewn ( 91381 )
    This is all well and good, but I'm not all that interested in playing it. On the other hand, I'd give my left nut to play the unreleased Marble Madness II [safestuff.com] on MAME.

    • Re:Marble Man (Score:2, Interesting)

      by charlito ( 627037 )
      Just thought I would gloat... I played the original arcade cabinet of Marble Madness II a few months ago. There was an arcade and pinball machine convention (i can't recall the real name of it) here in SJ. Trust me, you didn't miss much. Joystick, no trackball. Where's the fun? Lots of weird, old, random games, though. Ones I wish I could have found back then. Oh, and you probably could've purchased it, too (maybe $1000 or so, most of the lesser known were cheap...i was so close to buying a Doctor Who Pinball for $1400)
      • "i was so close to buying a Doctor Who Pinball for $1400"

        You could get one hell of a hooker for $1400

        • > > "i was so close to buying a Doctor Who Pinball for $1400"
          >
          >You could get one hell of a hooker for $1400

          Someone's already observed that the pinball machine lasts a lot longer than the hooker.

          I'd also like to ask if the hooker gives free replays if you play well enough ;)

    • Wow. You beat me to it! I was going to post a reply saying the same damn thing. When it comes to rare, unreleased games, playing MM2 is at the top of my list.

  • Hmmmm I wonder (Score:4, Funny)

    by Jaguar777 ( 189036 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:51PM (#4703522) Journal
    According to news media logic.
    If Doom/Quake = Kids shooting up school
    Then Bradley Trainer = Kids stealing tank and demolishing school.

    Remember you heard it here first!
  • I can't believe no one's mentioned that the Bradley was the subject of a great bit of political and military satire in the movie Pentagon Wars [imdb.com]. Very funny and scary at the same time. Well, scary if you're an American.
    • Even more unbelieveable, somebody already did [slashdot.org]! Imagine that, a redundant post on Slashdot...

  • New battle zone for old fans (Score:4, Interesting)

    by dubbayu_d_40 ( 622643 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:54PM (#4703540)
    If you were a fan, check out pandemic's battle zone II: http://www.pandemicstudios.com/games/bz2/index.htm It's like starcraft from inside a tank, only better. And does anyone know of a pc port of the Pointblank that used to ship with SGI's?
    • And does anyone know of a pc port of the Pointblank that used to ship with SGI's?

      Tried BZflag? [bzflag.org]
      • No, but I'm aware of it. I keep meaning to try it.

        I believe Pointblank was radically different. There were 3 tank types type, one aircraft, and three types of tank ammo. Network play was the best...

      • No. Nooo. Noooo. Noooooooo!

        NOT bzflag! Man, that stuff is addictive. I can't remember how much productivity I lost when I had an O2 for a workstation and decided to give bzflag a go.

        Stay away from that game. It's too much friggin fun. And way to addictive. Just say no. Same goes for gltron and tuxracer. Just don't do it. Go play quake or something, at least that gets boring after a while and you can get back to work.

    • Oh please no.

      Play the first one, simply titled "Battlezone."

      The AI and the gameplay are far better, and has a shitload fewer bugs. You'll need Win98 to run it though, as it freaks out a bit on Win2K. Don't know about WineX.

      I just got tired of my units sitting in range of a Scion howitzer and just DYING.
      • I never played BZII, but I can second (third?) the recommendation for the "modern" BattleZone. This is one of my favorite computer games of all time. Yes, it does have a few issues on 2k, but it plays fine on XP (go figure?), as I installed it a few weeks ago on my work machine (bleh, XP pro; I'd rather it be something Unixoid but if wishes were fishes, and all that).

    • If you were a fan, check out pandemic's battle zone II

      The first one in the series was excellent. I snagged the Gold Edition which came with a really well-done (but &#$#&#@ *hard*) expansion pack.

      II is sitting on my shelf waiting to be tried out. I heard it was not as good.

      It's too bad this kind of game never seemed to catch on. Sacrifice was the same basic style, and that didn't do too well either.

  • Lies! (Score:2, Funny)

    by Zildy ( 32593 )
    This wasn't training for tank-to-tank battle...

    This was for knocking those elusive spaceships out of the sky...bastards won't stand still!

  • Of course I own one (Score:5, Funny)

    by fobbman ( 131816 ) on Monday November 18, 2002 @11:59PM (#4703569) Homepage
    "By clicking on this link you stipulate that you own one of the original machines".

    Don't be silly. I don't have the simulator. I've got the damned tank in my backyard. It's just that the neighbors got upset last time I blew up their Buick.

    • Re:Of course I own one (Score:4, Funny)

      by muzzmac ( 554127 ) on Tuesday November 19, 2002 @12:24AM (#4703671)
      Made out of old coathangers?
    • fobbman writes:
      "Don't be silly. I don't have the simulator. I've got the damned tank in my backyard. It's just that the neighbors got upset last time I blew up their Buick."

      This reminds me of a Bill Cosby skit regarding the effect of Noah's arc on your average neighbor...

      [thwap thwap thwap thwap]
      "Hey!"
      "Yes?"
      "What is this thing?"
      "It's an arc."
      "... Well could you get it out of my driveway? I have to get to work! [pause] What is this thing for, anyway?"
      "I can't tell you. HA HA HA HA HA HA HA."
      "Well, can't you just give me a little hint?"
      "You want a hint?"
      "Yes, please."
      "How long can you tread water? HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA."
    • You'd be surprised what many people actually do own as far as small tanks and armored vehicles go.

  • Actually pretty cool... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday November 19, 2002 @12:01AM (#4703580)
    Some relevant quotes:

    The Turret is controlled by a 'Star Wars' style yoke controller. It turns the guns and lets you change the elevation of the gun. . There are 3 type of weapons - 25mm cannon ; 7.62 mm coaxially mounted machine gun; TOW missile launcher with twin tubes.The upper left of the bezel hold the Range control, and also the magnification switch. The range control sets the height of the gun before you launch rockets or shoot the machine gun. The magnification switch changes your view from 3x to 10x. On the right side of the bezel, there is a switch for arming the TOW missiles. Once you fire these missiles, you can guide them with the 'laser' sights. You can steer the missile into targets, or into the ground if you overshoot the target.At the lower right near the yoke, are 7 buttons for selecting the 'AP' (armor piercing) rounds, or the 'HE' High Explosive rounds. You also have the choice of 'SS' single Shot or 'CF' Continuous Fire modes. You can also switch to the '7.62mm' machine gun also.

    The TOW was a wire-guided steered missile. The fact that they programmed that in is pretty cool. Also, different ammo types? I'm impressed. Did the MG and Cannon ammo follow balistic paths?

  • All I gotta say is: Tanks a lot to all the MAME developers for all the hard work!

    *ducks* *runs*

  • I want MAME to get to work on emulating the degenatron! [degenatron.com] "Swing from green dot to green dot with your red square monkey!"

    That's what I want MAME to support.

  • Real Experience (Score:5, Informative)

    by citking ( 551907 ) <jay AT citking DOT net> on Tuesday November 19, 2002 @01:19AM (#4703860) Homepage
    I was in the Army for three years as a mechanized infantryman and can attest to the accuracy of the simulator. It really is very close to the real experience...except for sleeping in the hard driver's seat, driving 2 KM with the ramp in the down position, stalling, throwing track in the mud on a rainy day, spending 10 minutes fueling the beast, driving at night with an infrared display screen that looked like a big green blob...

    And you don't have a lieutenant four years younger than you yelling through the headset all the while.

    I miss the good ol' days! *sniff*

    • Re:Real Experience (Score:3, Informative)

      by lspd ( 566786 )
      I was Mech Infantry from 1996 to 2000 in the 1st Infantry Division. I've never seen this POS before. We used a UCOFT [army.mil] simulator (page 9) for regular gunnery training, and CCTT [defensedaily.com] for company level training.

      Although I can't find anything on the net to back me up, if I remember right, the UCOFT ran on VAX/VMS. The graphics were about up to the level of bzFlag.

      CCTT is a fairly recent creation though. The graphics in CCTT are quite good, but the last time I got to play in one (1999) the AI was completely braindead. I believe the simulators in CCTT ran on Windows, but I never saw a BSOD to back this up.

      The TRUELY comical simulator was the MACS. [army.mil] This POS was a Nintendo light-gun built in the shape on of M-16 attached to a Commodore 64. My company still had these (though they were RARELY used) when I left in 2000.

      • I completed the Tank Commander's Course at Gowen Field, Boise Idaho in 1989, and the tank simulator we used was called 'MCOF' (I'm pretty sure that's what it was called for M60A3's, and it certainly wasn't a POS).

        This thing must have cost serious bucks, 'cause it was in a refrigerated trailer and each trailer had a computer support team. It must have been UNIX. The simulator supported a laser range-finder and all sorts of high-end features, and the graphics sure didn't use wireframes (it even had a simulated loader that called 'up').

        That must have been extremely high-tech for the time because it looked a whole lot better than those screenshots.

    • Yup I read all the subthreads to this comment too. I am currently a Mechanized Infantryman and they use UCOFT now for training. I work at the 3rd Infantry Division in Fort Stewart. I haven't ever used the UCOFT though myself as I am not on a bradley, I got stuck in HQ and drive around on an ancient M113 tracked vehicle...

      heh Hooah! Infantry!
      • I was an M1 platoon leader at Fort Stewart in days gone by (24th ID then). From those of us not wearing a uniform any more, thanks for serving your nation. I remember the nights without sleep, the lousy rations, the cranky CO's and all the other "friction." Hang tough. Consider this a salute from one ex-soldier. Thanks! Nelson Sebright
  • http://www.tombstones.org.uk

    They sell rom sets for the cost of media and shipping. You click on the area of the world you are on and they show you who is availible.

    I got all the games for 10 bucks. 3200. But you have to find mame on your own.

    Theflatline

  • my favorite feature (Score:1, Redundant)

    by coaxial ( 28297 )
    ricocheting the big square bullets off walls to kill the enemy.

    *chhhh*
    *bong*
    *bong*
    *bong*
    *bhgh*
    *doo-do o-doo-doo-doo-dwup* :)

  • Oh my! (Score:2, Funny)

    by jsse ( 254124 )
    These guys are cheating! They used Wire-frame hack so as to see thru the obstacles to take advantages of others!

  • Battlezone: The first First-Person Shooter (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    It just occurred to me that Battlezone had to be the very first of the "First-Person Shooter" class of games. You were in a tank instead of on foot, but it's very much the same feel.

    Sigh. Has there really been nothing new in video games since the 80's? It feels that way.
  • I grew up in Germany in the 70's and 80's and I remember "Reforger" and "Autumn Forge". One of the main reasons the Bradley failed was it was to fast. It would outrun the Armor and Infantry. Nothing like being in a box surrounded by enemy guns. The Sgt. York was supposed to be the replacement that actually worked but funding was killed on it before it could be produced.

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