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Linux Business

EU Studies Linux Migration 368

Posted by michael from the reverse-assimilation dept.
LeftOfCentre writes "The Register reports that the European Commision, the executive arm of the 380 million population European Union, has decided to spend 250,000 Euros on studying how government computers in EU states could be migrated to Linux and open source."
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EU Studies Linux Migration More

EU Studies Linux Migration

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  • Let's wait (Score:5, Insightful)

    by spacefight ( 577141 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:38AM (#4577560)
    I bet 100 that Microsoft or similar companies will put a lot more than 250'000 into a study _against_ a Linux Migration as we've seen [bashdot.org] quite a lot in the past.

    • This is the EU not the US... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:45AM (#4577593) Homepage
      The EU has no love are large US Companies, they are after all the competition. There is less lobbying in the EU (though loads of corruption) and at the end of the day do you think that the French, Germans, Italians, Spanish etc etc would prefer to see a US Monopoly or something else ?

      Or put it another way. If MS had been French, the DoJ would have remedied them out of existence by now.

      • Re:This is the EU not the US... (Score:5, Insightful)

        by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:53AM (#4577633)
        There is less lobbying in the EU (though loads of corruption)

        That's right. There's much more corruption in the EU than the USA. That's because the EU doesn't have lots of sensible mechanisms in place to prevent giant corporations and friends of those in power from influencing policy in the way the USA does.

        (Yes, more sarcasm!)
        • When all the EU comissioners resign due to corruption then your comment doesn't seem quite so sarcastic ....

          Honestly they did [guardian.co.uk]

          • I know they did, .. (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Anonymous Coward
            they resigned because of corruption charges against 3 commission members. The *entire* council resigned, and was replaced by new people. How's that for accountability?

            Seen any U.S. politicians resign lately?

            • Re:I know they did, .. (Score:4, Insightful)

              by HiThere ( 15173 ) <charleshixsn@@@earthlink...net> on Friday November 01, 2002 @12:24PM (#4578588)
              No. It appears to be so common that nobody's even embarassed anymore. People who think corruption is uncommon in the US either don't have memories, or don't even read the headlines.

              OTOH, most of the corruption that has appeared (I'm not referring to scandal) appeared to happen before the person achieved whatever their current office is. Which is interesting. It seems to imply that becomming vulnerable to charges of corruption is one of the qualifications for office. I guess that this is so that those who pay you can control your actions. It would be blackmail if it weren't being done against politicians.

              This whole mess is probably because of the cost of election campaigns. How this can be corrected when most of the legislature appears corrupted, and, by implication, most of the candidates have been corrupted before being elected (not proven, but the most probable state), is a difficult problem.
              • Easy.

                Politcal seats are won in a lottery. Everybody eligable to hold office is thrown into a draw. No more career politicans, no more family dynasty.

                The best thing is that the goverment becomes very much like the general population. If this is not what you want then are you really in support of democracy?

                It is the same way we draw jurors so why not politicans?

                • Re:I know they did, .. (Score:3, Insightful)

                  by 4of12 ( 97621 )

                  Well, I'm hoping that a democratic republic helps to even out some of the chances of getting someone elected that lives out several sigma on the bell curve.

                  With a lottery, any fool can win. Listen to a few radio talk shows or some of my in-laws someday and you'll even begin to believe that Dick Cheney is better.

                  No, I think elections are a good way of smoothing out the radical singularities. It's by no means foolproof, since the German populace was sufficiently gullible to elect Hitler. But I think my odds are still better than the lottery.

                  I kind of like the idea of ancient China, where bureaucratic positions were based somewhat on a meritocracy; higher test scores gave you a better position.

      • Re:This is the EU not the US... (Score:5, Funny)

        by oreilco ( 125097 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:11AM (#4577744)
        Corruption / Lobbying ... it's just a spelling difference.

      • Re:This is the EU not the US... (Score:4, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:42AM (#4577931)
        No, if MS had been French, they would have surrendered to the DOJ at the first hint of a lawsuit.

    • Since when... (Score:2, Insightful)

      by theolein ( 316044 )
      did anyone take MS paid studies seriously?
    • Ha...I've never seen that site before. Out of curiosity, I went hunting for the WHOIS records...

      [whois.opensrs.net] Registrant: j0n katz 1313 Mockingbird Lane Collierville, TN 38017 US Domain Name: BASHDOT.ORG Administrative Contact: katz, j0n j0nkatz@hotmail.com 1313 Mockingbird Lane Collierville, TN 38017 US +1.5555555 Technical Contact: Domain, Direct dnstech@domaindirect.com 96 Mowat Avenue Toronto, ON M6K 3M1 CA +1.4165350123 Fax: +1.4165312516
      ------------------
      Someone obviously has a sense of humor around here... :)

  • Fasibility Study Only - As yet.... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by anonymous cupboard ( 446159 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:39AM (#4577561)
    This is currently only a feasibilty study, and I gather the Germans in particular with thir own initiatives are quite strongly behind this.

    However, many persons in the EU are aware of the perils of depending upon a single vendor and their propietary formats, and also how ill-served we are when pushing documents around between PCs configured for different languages.

  • Easy solution. . . (Score:5, Funny)

    by cordsie ( 565171 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:39AM (#4577563)
    EU Studies Linux Migration

    Just wait until it flies back north, then get out the hunting rifles.

  • It's not the computers that need migration... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mvdw ( 613057 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:40AM (#4577566) Homepage
    Migrating computers is easy enough - the hard part is migrating users.
    • One the whole, users will use whatever they are given

      It "just goes with the job"
      Sure, its great if you already have experience with the particular OS or the particular application that your using - but usually you just have to get used to what is there

      The big question is whether the cost saved by going OSS is outweighed by the cost of users becoming sufficiently effective on the new platform
      • The big question is whether the cost saved by going OSS is outweighed by the cost of users becoming sufficiently effective on the new platform
        And there's the rub. Philosophical issues aside, if it costs more than the commercial OS and apps to retrain the users in the "new" OS (including loss of productivity while in transition), it's a no-brainer on a commercial level - the status quo will always be chosen.
        Considering the (substantial) discounts offered to major companies using commercial software, I don't see that changing any time soon, unfortunately.
        • Considering the (substantial) discounts offered to major companies using commercial software, I don't see that changing any time soon, unfortunately.

          I could name you half a dozen companies (partially large ones) that are really, really pissed off with Microsoft and Licensing 6.0.

          If you do not want to upgrade to the latest and greatest (and buggiest) every two years this deal smells like a rat, looks like a rat and is a rat.

          Companies above all want predictability. By making costs unpredictable with such gimmicks due to Steve "Fester" Balmers $ per desktop mantra and licensing terms, which stop short of the obligation never, ever to masturbate again quite a few CIOs are seriously looking into free software as an alternative.

      • Most users have so little training in using computers, the hardest thing for them to learn in migrating to linux is to only single-click the desktop icons, and to give it a second because the browser isn't 90% pre-load during boot-up. My estimate is power-users will adapt quickly, and most of the rest will hardly notice. Teach them how to copy and paste and change screen res on the fly and most people will think Linux is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

    • Re:It's not the computers that need migration... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by EvilAlien ( 133134 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:10AM (#4577734) Journal
      The great thing about business or government or anywhere that isn't the users' home... "Use this computer. Or you're fired".

      Migrating users isn't that difficult, basic desktop usage of Windows, MacOS or Linux is mostly portable. Anyone who can't learn how to do very basic things on another OS (I'm not talking about system administration here, but typing and printing memos) doesn't deserve their job. Sometimes people just have to learn and adapt to change, it is one of the requirements of being a living thing.

      • I don't know what large corporate environment you work in, but if I were to take that approach, I would be the one to get fired.

        Contrary to the belief of most IT workers, IT's job is NOT to stand up high and hand down orders on what technology users must use. Sure, you can take this approach, but that isn't really helpful to users.

        IT's job should be to listen to the needs of users and find the tool that works best for them considering all sides.

        If you come to the conclusion that it would be in their best interest to switch to open source, then make a plan to move them there. Develop a phased plan that includes user training and migration of their skillset.

        I am willing to bet a lot of money that if you start throwing users to the wolves and tell them to deal with it then you are going to find your boss throwing you to the wolves of unemployment.
        • *blink* When has IT ever been able to stand on high and say what users will use - it's the people in the board room who make deals with M$, IBM, Sun etc who decide what people will have on their desktops. And the only way to alter that decision is to come up with a 50 page document spelling out 'it's technically impossible'.


          Many fully working systems have been thrown out and replaced by less functional and more buggy systems because the Board made a deal with a big company/CEO is screwing the Sales Rep.


          Open Source is often only getting into companies 'through the back door' as it were, because getting free software in doesn't require a sign off from the financial director.

    • Whenever someone has done a poor choice and implemented part or all business logic somewhere proprietary, migrating becomes hell. One example would be databases where you rely heavily on the procedural language that comes with your particular RDBMS. Another example would be use of macros in MS Office products.

      Sure, if you have all your systems implemented in a Java-based GUI or as a webapp, then you're in luck. Otherwise, tough luck.

  • Next on the Discovery Channel (Score:5, Funny)

    by MosesJones ( 55544 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:41AM (#4577575) Homepage
    Watch as the Elegant Linux penguins migrate from Finland down into central Europe for the harsh winter ahead. Linux Penguins are unusual as the only northen hemisphere penguins in the wild, this documentary shows they unusual mating dances and how they manage to move their young thousands of miles by transporting them as small ISO images.

    Truely one of natures great wonders.

  • Fantastic idea (Score:2, Interesting)

    by captainclever ( 568610 )
    I think more and more business' will be considering this, faced with the soaring costs and big-brother-esque EULA clauses that go hand in hand with the likes of windows/office etc. Maybe this will cause the number of jobs in the intustry to soar, esp regarding Linux know-how. All in all this seems to be a good thing :)

  • Europe out in front again... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Broken Bottle ( 84695 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:46AM (#4577597)
    Does anyone else get the impression that this will be yet another area where, yet again, Europe is going to be WAY out in front of the US. Europe and progressive social policy (or, if you live there, I guess you'd just call it "social policy" :) ) are practically synonymous and the US is once again made to look like a country run by bankers... Government is a public institution. Therefore, in my mind, it makes perfect sense for a government (a democratic one at least) to setup it's IT infrastructure based around a platform created by the people for the people rather than a platform that lines the pockets of a monlithic corporation (and, in this case, a foreign one at that).

    Chris

    • Re:Europe out in front again... (Score:4, Insightful)

      by jocks ( 56885 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:34AM (#4577883) Homepage
      I have to agree with you. When I was a child, we looked to the US as a model of freedom and liberty, you could do SO much more in the US than in the UK and Europe.

      Now, to my mind, I would rather live in Europe because I have more freedom of speech, more liberty and more protection from world dominating corporates.

      The trials of OJ Simpson and Bill Clinton have demonstrated that even the law can be bought in the US, in the UK we have imprisoned two Lords just for lying in court (perjury).

      We have a social policy that is steadily improving, our system is not perfect in many, many ways but it is moving in the right direction.

      I am, however, an optimist and I fully expect the USA to finally grasp the importance of good Environmental Policy (something that will take many decades to happen with current social attitude), good attitude towards liberty (by empowering the people again and taking the whip from the corporates hands) and moving towards the founding principles of the nation...
      "By the people. For the people." For as long as Disney keeps copyright on Mickey Mouse(tm)(R)(c) the people will be impovrished.

      Good luck to you all!
    • ...yet again, Europe is going to be WAY out in front of the US.

      Interesting how "someplace else" is always better. In the USA, new products and unusual ideas refer to a European origin. In Brasil, the origin is the USA.

      In France, where do they say a new herbal cure comes from? In Japan, what origin do radical clothing or ideas claim? How about Australia...other than from the other side of the country?

  • Taxes (Score:2, Interesting)

    by goldspider ( 445116 )
    I know most European nations are generally socialist at their core and tax their citizens quite heavily. Is a migration to Linux going to mean lower cost of government operation and lower taxes? Or is the money that they save just going to go to some other bloated government program?

    • Re:Taxes (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:57AM (#4577657)
      As a European I would gladly have the saved money reallocated to further improve the public health care and transportation instead of returned to me.

    • Re:Taxes (Score:2, Interesting)

      by pubjames ( 468013 )
      Is a migration to Linux going to mean lower cost of government operation and lower taxes? Or is the money that they save just going to go to some other bloated government program?

      Just because your own government isn't very good doesn't mean that governments the world over are crappy.

    • Re:Taxes (Score:3, Informative)

      by RAMMS+EIN ( 578166 )
      ``Is a migration to Linux going to mean lower cost of government operation and lower taxes?''
      Hehe. I don't think switching to open source solutions will have that great an impact on government expenses. Software costs will drop, but the hardware costs will remain, as will the costs for maintenance. And with all the subsidies and financial aid still in place...

      Besides, AFAIK, the expenses of the European governements aren't paid for by the citizens, but rather by the state governments. The decision to alter taxes would, then depend on those, and I don't think they will be inclined to lower taxes. They can better use the money by stimulating the not-so-shiny economy...or save up for the upcoming expansion of the EU with several poorer countries.

      ---
      The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it.
      -- Abbie Hoffman

    • Re:Taxes (Score:5, Informative)

      by blancolioni ( 147353 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:03AM (#4577695) Homepage
      I know most European nations are generally socialist at their core and tax their citizens quite heavily.

      I pay about the same amount of tax here as I did when I lived in the US. The difference is that in the EU, the money goes to social policies; while in the US it goes on the military.

      • Re:Taxes (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Sir Banana ( 22536 )
        I can speak on this from the other direction - I've moved from the UK to the states - and I pay pretty much the same amount of tax. To suggest that the US taxes at a lower level is somewhat misleading and is only true with qualifications.

        If you are a HIGH earner then the US taxes you at a lower rate.

        If you are a normal person then the US taxes you about the same (of course this depends a little on your state).

        I suspect that this is because a lot of americans belive in the 'America Dream': One day they will make it and be rich. They think that when that happens they wouldn't want really high taxes so they are content with a system that penalises the average person, just in case.

        • I've moved from Europe to the US, and my impression is that if you add up federal taxes, state taxes, and the extra you have to spend for you or your family to get what in Europe we consider for granted for almost free, like health and education, you end up with a similar amount of "mandatory spending".

          Of course you can CHOOSE not to go to college and that your kids and spouse don't need any medical assistance. I guess that's what they call freedom.

        • Re:Taxes (Score:2, Informative)

          by I hate Perl ( 86554 )
          Considering the fact that about 30% of US population does not pay any taxes at all and 90% of all taxes is paid by 10% of the population , it is hard to claim that this system penalizes "the average person"
          Of course, perhaps as compared to Europe where being rich is practically crime and carries a social stigma, it might seem that way.
      • You may pay the same amount, but do you earn the same amount or more?
      • This has already been beaten to death, but I'll say it anyway.

        a) Military is only a tiny percentage of the budget when you consider that that we are NOT a socialist country (yet). Meaning if we did take on socialized medicine, higher education, etc. then the taxes would necessarily increase and the military percentage

        b) The money that we spend on military almost exclusively goes back into American hands (whilst many other nato nations have to contract out to other nato nations such as Poland having a large percentage of it's entire budget going to the purchasing of foreign NATO planes). Thus the military is big business and usually fosters employment.

        c) Our military budget is only big because of the cold war. The entire 90's were a down-sizing period. We're a naturally isolationist state (for better or worse). The main reason we do so many "peace keeping" missions is because we have a surplus military with little or nothing to do and a political leadership that determins the cost of war for us is cheap due to sunk costs (plus the viability for battle-hardening). Sadly, we're spreading ourselves too thinly and pissing everybody off in the process. This isn't helped by our current cowboy administration who pretends like they're invincible and that no other country's "feelings" are worth a damn.

        As as for tax rates.. It has been said that Americans are the most "honest" tax payers in the world, so if you take that rumor into account, then we probably do pay comparibly higher taxes than other nations. Obviously this doesn't apply to "honest" citizens, but as an aggregate this does count.

    • Re:Taxes (Score:3, Funny)

      by Waffle Iron ( 339739 )
      Is a migration to Linux going to mean lower cost of government operation and lower taxes? Or is the money that they save just going to go to some other bloated government program?

      If I were a European taxpayer, I sure would feel better to have my money safely tucked into Microsoft's gleaming $40B cash stockpile than to have it wasted on some local pork-barrel program. That beautiful pile of money gives the entire world something to aspire too, and I would feel proud to do my part to make sure it's kept big, strong and safe from shareholders, Europeans and other freeloaders.

  • In Other News (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:51AM (#4577625)

    Mass migration of Linux Hippies to Europe started today. US based retailers report sharp decrease in soda and snack food sales. Porn sites closing down for lack of visitors. Ellen Feiss able to move about freely without fear of stalkers.

    France reports unease, is unhappy with influx. Said one Pepe LaPue "Christ, they smell".

    End of story............

  • Already being done... (Score:5, Informative)

    by 26199 ( 577806 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:53AM (#4577634) Homepage

    Perhaps we're a little ahead of the rest of the EU here in the UK... there's already a pilot study going on to assess the use of Linux by the police force... if successful, it'll lead to 60,000 desktops; zdnet [zdnet.co.uk] has the latest details.

    • Perhaps we're a little ahead of the rest of the EU here in the UK... there's already a pilot study going on to assess the use of Linux by the police force... if successful, it'll lead to 60,000 desktops; zdnet [zdnet.co.uk] has the latest details.

      I am actually a UK citizen so I'm not going to bash it, but I think if you follow these things then you will see that Germany is way ahead of the UK in terms of use and promotion of Open Source in government. The police force is just a small part of the whole government/state body in the UK, and most of the rest of it are confirmed Microsoft lackies. Even Tony Blair unfortunately.
      • Why do you call Tony Blair a "confirmed Microsoft lacky"?
        I'm from the uk - so just curious, since I've never heard anyone mention such a thing before.

        • Re:Already being done... (Score:5, Informative)

          by pubjames ( 468013 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:22AM (#4577800)
          Why do you call Tony Blair a "confirmed Microsoft lacky"?
          I'm from the uk - so just curious, since I've never heard anyone mention such a thing before.

          Tony Blair met with Bill Gates and the government announced shortly afterwards that "UK Online" (the core way for government to communicate with citizens) would be all based on Microsoft technology. The NHM has also had major contracts with Microsoft, and well as many other government departments.

          One thing the UK government has been consistently bad at (for decades) is big IT projects. Over run, over spend, don't work, and often these days "in partnership" with Microsoft.
          • The NHM has also had major contracts with Microsoft, and well as many other government departments.

            Of course I meant the NHS, the National Health Service.
          • One thing the UK government has been consistently bad at (for decades) is big IT projects.

            The alternative view is the other factor all these failures have in common. EDS.
    • The EU feasability is study is being done by the same consultancy that's doing the pilot study in the UK. They got the EU contract for exactly that reason.

      Source: The Register article that this /. story points to. :(

  • Ctirix / TS / Remote X (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Zephy ( 539060 ) <jon@NOSpAm.aezis.net> on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:53AM (#4577635) Homepage
    This project seems to be Citrix style, (albeit with vnc) terminal services, which are generally very popular throughout goverment installations (especially in the UK) , they like the centralised management and also the cheap re-use of older equipment. With the cost of the licenses for this equipment being significantly smaller than the cost for a Citrix license then you can see why they're seriousely looking into it. Add onto that the extra security of the linux system (although most of these systems are on a closed wan anyway)

  • UK Police (Score:4, Funny)

    by Ageing Metalhead ( 586837 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:55AM (#4577641)
    It was reported on UK's Channel4 news
    that several Police forces had set up a "New High Tech Police Network" linked several counties' forces.

    The accompanying video footage showed a detective operating on what looked like a standard Redhat 7.x install......

  • Could lead to a growing EU. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Martigan80 ( 305400 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:55AM (#4577644) Journal
    Well if and I mean if the EU does accept Linux as it's main OS, it could also pave the way for Other countries that wish to join the EU! It would save quite a bit on there cost and would allow them to come up with the initial funds needed to enter. Plus as some one stated, if the EU does take it, it would force the other countries out side of the EU to adapt to a compatible format-special for the sake of economical interaction.
    • It's not like whats stopping countries from entering the EU is lack of money. It's more an issue of the barrage of treaties, regulatory changes, laws, policy changes and more they have to deal with, not to mention referendums etc. possibly both in their own country and with various EU countries.

      There's already a queue of willing candidate countries, and the problem is more how quickly the EU can handle the negotiations and the changes the EU need to have in place.

  • Typical Government Response (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Sacarino ( 619753 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:55AM (#4577647) Homepage
    Spending money to find out how to stop spending money...

    Granted, you won't find a professional anything in the world who will invest money without research, but it still seems funny to make a big annoucement about spending to reduce spending.
  • is 250,000 Euro really needed to educate and research on migration from Windows to Linux? Personally, but I know this will not happen, I would take advantage of resources on the Internet (i heart google :-)) based on migration for the systems and the users. Of course, later on, the money can be used to train users how to use linux, but with KDE 3.0 and so many more easier window managers and distributions popping (LibraNet a personal favorite for me).. it really won't be too difficult to install it and use it. There would be no reason for them to even use the console.

    • Re:from a money standpoint (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      did you *read* the article, perhaps?

      no?

      *sigh*

      They're after a system where you have a smart card that you swipe and then the system logs you on the your personal desktop from anywhere in the network. Don't you think that'll take a little bit of moola to do feasibility studies, rather than a 5 minute google search?

  • What about the UK? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by GnomeKing ( 564248 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @09:58AM (#4577669)
    The UK government recently (relatively) spent a lot of money with microsoft to introduce a "gateway" system for several things for use by the UK population (I dont know if it is implemented, but a good example is tax returns)

    I wonder if how to solve "initiatives" like that will be taken into consideration - since afaik there is no OSS solution for the existing implementation, and their gateway would have to be rethought/designed/implemented to move to OSS

    • Re:What about the UK? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Zephy ( 539060 )
      IIRC (an I assume you are talking about UKonline) they've had serious trouble with parts of that site working with each other.. even now you can't use a single ID to access all of the services on that site. (Which incedentally is running on solaris 8 according to netcraft)

  • Why this is Important (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Alethes ( 533985 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:05AM (#4577706)
    When governments and large corporations use Free Software, the chances of Palladium and other "Digital Restrictions Management" software being able to work against Free Software are very low, meaning that we as individuals maintain more of our software freedom. Hardware manufacturers cannot afford to lose the whole EU as clientele even if Microsoft can.
    • Netproject seem to be embracing TCPA:
      Trusted Computing is set to accelerate the growth of the information economy.
      Opt out - and be in third world of information economies.
      Opt in - and find yourself amongst existing cartels of trust.
      although they do accept that there are criticisms and concerns:
      Ross Anderson is a leading cryptographer and authority on the interaction between security and economics. He has written on the dangers that TCPA holds for privacy, for consumer rights, for competition policy, for innovation and for small business.

      See his list of Frequently Asked Questions at: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html [cam.ac.uk]

  • Good news (Score:3, Interesting)

    by d-Orb ( 551682 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:12AM (#4577750) Homepage
    I guess this is good news. For a start, it is quite important to us European what the EU recommends. A well-funded, unbiased and "robust" study of Linux and free software should be welcomed. To start with, it will provide Linux with plenty of limelight. It will also point out things which need to be sorted out, and it will give more clout to people in European (or elsewhere) organisations that need pretty PDF documents with "this page is left blank intentionally" in order to be convinced.
    It would be great if this study actually comes up with reasonable comments and maybe a HOWTO. If you speak Spanish, you can see what I guess is the desired output of this project (as applied to one of Spain's ministeries) here. [hispalinux.es]
    Also, note that this is mainly a desktop study, not a server or file format study (the EU has already carred out a number of these in the past). So someone is taking Linux seriously! :-)

  • A token expenditure (Score:4, Insightful)

    by jonbrewer ( 11894 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:23AM (#4577810) Homepage
    That they've only budgeted 250,000 euros for a study really shows that they are complacent with a Microsoft dominated IT scheme. That rather insignificant amount of money could easily be blown on six months of a consultant's time and stock research reports from Jupiter, Ovum, and Gartner.

    • Re:A token expenditure (Score:3, Interesting)

      by panurge ( 573432 )
      The European Commission isn't actually very large and does not actually have a very large budget. Finding 250000 euros isn't necessarily that easy. There is a mildly amusing story about this. Apparently at some event Prince Charles (von Saxe-Coburg-Gotha-Battenberg etc) was sounding off about the huge European bureaucracy and its deadening effect, until someone broke protocol (you're not allowed to tell the heir to the throne he is talking bovine excrement) and remarked that actually the EU bureaucracy is smaller than Kent County Council, which handles local services for a few percent of the UK. At which the Prince suddenly went quiet.

      The Commission tends to attract the brightest civil servants, and actually if you ever have to deal with it, it shows. Think West Wing in several languages. And no, I don't work for it and am never likely to.

    • Netproject is a membership organization for companies that wish to cooperate on strategies for use of Open Source and open standards - it's not a normal consulting company. As such they are unlikely to be looking at more than recouping costs - they're more interesting in providing a workable strategy that will allow their members to participate in the deployment of open source based systems later. Among the people cooperating with Netproject you'll find Alan Cox and Eric Raymond for instance.

      So "only" 250,000 euros might be more than enough to produce a report that provide workable strategies.

    • Don't forget that the EC is only a tiny fraction of size of all combined EU governments. If the EC is spending 250K Euros (an insignificant amount really IMO), it signals that all combined, there is 10s or 100s of millions being spent on investigating open source.

  • Money well spent (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nomadicGeek ( 453231 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:25AM (#4577820)
    I'm glad to see this happening.

    I've been pretty turned off by some of the sales practices that I have seen by large software companies. I think that it makes much more sense for governments to pool their resources and develop free software instead of licensing commercial packages.

    MS licensing fees are not unreasonable but they do add up when you are talking about so many users. At least I haven't seen them selling 2 licenses for every govt employee.

    A couple of years ago, an Oracle reseller sold the state of CA more licenses than they had users to use. I've seen it happen with other software companies. I'd love to see CA move to an open source database and tell Oracle to kiss their butts. It would serve them right.

  • Linux Thin Clients? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jdbarillari ( 590703 ) <joseph+slashdot@barillari.org> on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:46AM (#4577956) Homepage
    The article alludes to a "ultra low cost machine being supplied by the Telford office of Taiwanese company GCI, price ?299, including a smart card reader." This machine is "'stateless,' so a user can log on with their smartcard from any machine on the network, and get immediate access to their personal desktop,".

    That sounds a lot like the Sun Ray [sun.com]. I can't find any info GCI from Taiwan (those who can read Chinese could look here [gci.com.tw] to see if GCI==gci.com.tw. It looks like an ordinary retailer.) Does GCI sell Sun Rays, or do they have a new solution?

    US $467-per-box seems surprisingly high (conversion by xe.com/ucc/) for a thin client. Thin clients (at least the ones I've seen) are usually built around stripped-down architectures -- essentially, a USB controller, a video card, a NIC, and the minimum that's needed to tie them together. Then again, if you toss in the price of an LCD monitor (space concerns) and a smart card reader, $467 may be reasonable.

    Does anyone know what GCI sells? The Oracle of Google [google.com] doesn't reveal anything about GCI and "smart card" or "thin client". (It does reveal a page [uk.com] saying that there is a "ANSWER GCI LTD", originally from Taiwan, in Telford, but supplies no details beyond the fact that they're in "computer sales.") If they're a reseller, reselling thin clients, I would be intrigued to discover which ones.

  • OSS Making inroads in Europe (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Diabolical ( 2110 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:52AM (#4577980) Homepage
    Actually OSS has been subject to several studies from one or the other eu comission. There are some strong promotors for OSS like Germany and several special interest groups which include some distros and smaller OSS companies.

    Further more, the recent cooling down of relations between the US and Germany inflicted fear upon several EU parliament members who suggest that it would be wise to look into OSS software to make sure the EU is not too depending on software of American origin.

    I can understand their sentiment given the alleged fact that information aquired through echelon was abused to give American companies an advantage. So they are afraid that using "American" software could give them the same problems. Aside from the fact that the EU too does not like vendor lock-in there is also a growing resentment of how Microsoft is going about it's bussiness without even the slightest hesitation because of it's legal battles and the ongoing investigation of it's practices by the EU.

    Besides.. they'd rather spend all that money they could save on licensing costs on farming subsidies anyway ;-)

  • With appologies to Monty Python. (Score:3, Funny)

    by hypnotik ( 11190 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @10:56AM (#4578005) Homepage
    SOLDIER #1: Are you suggesting linux migrates?

    ARTHUR: Not at all. It could be carried.

    SOLDIER #1: What? A swallow carrying linux?

    ARTHUR: It could grip it by the shrink wrap!

    SOLDIER #1: It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound linux distribution.

  • it is easy to migrate hardware and software.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by 2000 Britneys ( 549923 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @11:14AM (#4578126)
    but what they will have to contend the most is the migration of users to a new way do doing things in the linux os and any and all the applications that will run on it.

    I work for a large City (municipal) government and let me tell you just changing from windows 95 to windows 2000 caused chaos and havoc in my department. There are ppl here that worked for the city for more than 30 years and are so bloody entrenched in doing things their own way it is unbelievable.

    Now the EU has a good chance of migrating since (and this an assumption) the workers didn't have much time to get set in MS way of doing things

  • Strategic (Score:4, Insightful)

    by syylk ( 538519 ) on Friday November 01, 2002 @01:47PM (#4579088) Homepage
    Ok, let's put down the Linux fanboy suit, and look more deeply at this.

    EU is (slowly) getting out of the shadow of the former superpower. Euro, 9/11, New Economy burst, US & Japan economic crisis, all "helped" the Union to find back their unity, identity, pride and strength.

    I won't debate the good or bad of these events, I'm not up to it.

    But, I'd like to point out that in such "self awareness" phenomenon, the last thing you'd want to concede to your competitors is to have one of their major companies practically rule the information and communication infrastructure of your own national system(s).

    Would any american citizen rather have all of their phone lines be run by a German monopolistic private company? Or all of their power plants run by a French monopolistic private company? Or all of their run by monopolistic private company?

    So why so many arms thrown up when we Europeans start looking around for other suppliers of (most of) our government and in the end strategic IT infrastructure?

    I believe if we in the EU had a powerhouse software firm similar in size to M$, we'd be already switched over it. Proprietary or not, it'd not matter (much) from a strategic point of view.

    Cost is a factor, but not as much as putting your own computer-related balls in the hands of a private company of an allied-but-competing country.

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