Slashback: Dilemma, Privacy, Chess 352
Front-row seats. zer0vector writes "The previously mentioned camera that was attached to the external fuel tank on Atlantis gave some great shots of launch this afternoon on NASA TV. During the feed, it looked like the ejection of the solid rocket boosters damaged or obscured the camera, leading to a fuzzy image during the fuel tank separation stage."
SkyNet has not yet achieved consciousness. DrEnter writes "According to this Yahoo article, Vladimir Kramnik has defeated 'Deep Fritz' (apparently the world's most powerful chess computer) to take the lead, 2.5-0.5 (the first game was a draw). You can find out more details at the contest site."
Damned if you do, but also if you don't. cybaea writes "A recent article in InfoWorld argues that the latest Windows 2000 and Windows XP Service Packs may be illegal for health care providers under the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. To make matters worse, not installing the Service Packs may also be illegal. Damned if you do, damned if you don't ..."
Dad, please switch to a real operating system. It's still spreading. deego writes " An e-mail-borne computer virus that lets crackers control infected Windoze machines remotely continues to spread and constitutes the most severe attack this year. The worm, known as W32.Bugbear, or I-Worm.Tanatos, infects computers that use Microsoft's Windows operating systems. It was first spotted a week ago and has spread to dozens of countries. Article here."
Please sit down first. calib0r writes "CNN.com is running an article on the most recent events dealing with the nissan.com lawsuit. Salon.com ran an article about this a few months ago. More information can also be found here."
Big surprise about Hipaa (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Big surprise about Hipaa (Score:2)
Re:Big surprise about Hipaa (Score:2)
Suicide is looking better and better every day.
I have a dilemma (Score:4, Funny)
Re:I have a dilemma (Score:4, Funny)
What a deal... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What a deal... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What a deal... (Score:5, Funny)
But the interesting fact is that for Fritz these numbers are $500k-$300k-$0(zero).
I guess that even though computers are getting close to humans when playing chess, humans are still way better negotiators
Re:What a deal... (Score:5, Funny)
Chess (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Chess (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Chess (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Chess (Score:3, Insightful)
What use will 200 millon moves per second give if mostly they are wrong or repeated?
Re:Chess (Score:3, Informative)
ALWAYS check Everything2 [everything2.com] first! :)
Re:Chess (OT) (Score:2)
Re:Chess (Score:4, Insightful)
Second, the program and the computer it runs on are two different things even if they are closely tied together. In fact, I'm kinda surprised Deep Fritz doesn't run on a more powerful computer. I would imagine that if it scaled well to 8 processors they would at least be able to scale to 16 or 32.
Re:Chess (Score:5, Funny)
Deep Blue has been broken up and sold off in bits. It was not so much a computer as a temporary assembly of parts. So Deep Fritz would be the strongest living chess computer. After all we don't expect Kasparov to beat dead grandmasters.
I think that it is time to introduce weight categories like they have in boxing. So neither competitor would be allowed to weigh more than 1000 pounds. Otherwise the game is a bit like watching an industrial robot beat the crap out of Mike Tyson, OK so it might be fun to watch but it is not real sport.
Re:Chess (Score:3, Funny)
I think you'll find the robot's name was Lennox Lewis...
Re:Chess (Score:5, Insightful)
If evaluating a chess position takes 150 units of processor time, and eliminating a position from consideration takes 1 unit of processor time, we shouldn't prune the decision tree at all! Never mind that as we get a little above a dozen moves into the future, we are considering (and tracking in some sort of memory) more moves than there are molecules in the universe. Posh! All that matters is the number of moves evaluated.
Also:
Jouster
Results (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Results (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Chess (Score:3, Informative)
Hrmm... I guess you should be laughing at Kramnik then. From the article:
"Deep Fritz is simply a stronger program than Deep Blue" - Vladimir Kramnik
Re:Chess (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Chess (Score:5, Insightful)
Great... english is the only language in the world (Score:4, Interesting)
But Uzi Nissan, whose family name is also the name of a month in Hebrew and Arabic[...]
"We've always seen this case as protecting the Nissan brand and not about money," he said. "What we are saying is the word Nissan by itself is our registered trademark and we're the only ones with the right to use the name Nissan by itself."
Re:Great... english is the only language in the wo (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Great... english is the only language in the wo (Score:3, Insightful)
Further,
The auto company didn't sue until 1999, but the judge said that five-year wait wasn't too long because Nissan didn't initially know the impact the Internet would have on business.
Then looks like Nissan should have had a little more foresight. IANAL but if you don't defended your trademark when you become aware of someone else using it, then it's become diluted.
Re:Great... english is the only language in the wo (Score:4, Insightful)
As far as the "waiting until 1999" argument goes, it sounds like Nissan is claiming he didn't infringe until 1999 when he started linking to car sites, meaning he was generating revenue based on visitors who were looking for www.nissanmotors.com.
I think this argument holds water.
However, the remedy the company is asking for is way out of proportion. Nissan Motors should be granted an injunction against www.nissan.com being used to adverstise cars.
Re:Great... english is the only language in the wo (Score:5, Interesting)
Erm... if you want to take that tack... "Nissan" in Japanese isn't written with Latin characters either.
---
Dum de dum.
Japanese... (Score:2, Informative)
Give me a break... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Give me a break... (Score:2, Informative)
Nissan is his name. He registered it first. It's his.
Re:Give me a break... (Score:5, Insightful)
This strikes me as no different than the McDonalds (the junk-food chain) vs McDonalds (the family owned restaurant that predates the fast food chain) a while back. The bigger business considers itself more important, and has the money to throw at lawyers to make that delusion a reality.
If *you* had a family domain, and some company offered you what you consider a pittance for it, how would you feel? Would you consider yourself an informed "hardball" player? Would you "cackle with glee" at your great luck in having a valuable name?
It really disgusts me that companies consider themselves more important than individuals. It disgusts me even more that the legal system mostly agrees with them. Neither of those comes *close*, however, to the disgust I feel about actual individual *humans* who agree that companies have more rights than everyone else, and actually criticize other humans for standing up for what few rights we have left.
Re:Give me a break... (Score:3, Insightful)
Or maybe Mr. Nissan said, "No. I'm not selling it at all. It's MY name!"
What would a judge say? (Score:2, Insightful)
Both sides want nissan.com. Why? They either feel that:
A. nissan.com will get more traffic and thus generate more revenue than some alternative, or
B. nissan.com is more representative of their company's name
As for A, what would cause nissan.com to get more traffic than "nissanmotors.com" or "nissancomputer.com"? People around the world recognize the Nissan brand name. Common sense would dictate that an overwhelming percentage of traffic seen to nissan.com [i]stems from that recognition, which Nissan (the car company) has carefully cultivated and paid for since 1933 when Nissan was incorporated in Japan[/i]. To continue to grant Mr. Uzi Nissan a monopoly on the domain "nissan.com" to promote his own company would be to allow his company to capitalize on the name recognition he did not establish. This fact does not seem to be in dispute. (Mr. Nissan would add, however, that the coincidence of his name should not be held against him.)
As for B, both sides feel THEY have the right to use the name Nissan, and they do. As it happens, Mr. Nissan was first to claim nissan.com. Nissan Motors, however, was clearly the first to stake out recognition of "Nissan" as a brand name. Which one should legally be priority?
It is fair to say that Mr. Nissan knew that registering nissan.com would be disputed by Nissan Motors. He chose to register nissan.com anyway, and it must be assumed that he did so because he felt he would be better served by nissan.com than nissancomputers.com or something else. It is also fair to say that he knew that by picking nissan.com he would receive more traffic to his address than a small computer store in North Carolina would normally receive, and that this traffic is a result of the name conflict with Nissan Motors.
Nissan Motors clearly has more at stake in its name than Mr. Nissan has in his company. Forcing Mr. Nissan to relocate to a different address will have some cost, but this cost is small compared to the potential commerce that is being impeded by the naming mismatch. Clearly, the public does not expect to get Nissan Computer Corp of Raleigh, NC when they type "www.nissan.com" into their web browsers.
The cost to commerce as a whole must be taken into consideration, and weighed against the cost to Mr. Nissan for relocation.
Judgment? plaintiff [Nissan Motors] may use nissan.com, but must pay a reasonable fee for costs of relocating Mr. Nissan's site.
Re:What would a judge say? (Score:3, Informative)
"Datsun" is three characters in hiragana: da tsu n. "Dat" is not a well-formed Japanese word. "sun" is not pronounced like English "sun", and does not mean "son". Amazingly enough, you seem to be correct that "son" means something like "to lose money" (WWWJDIC has it as "loss; disadvantage"), but if the name were "Datson" it would break up as "da tso n", and there's no such syllable as "tso".
Re:Give me a break... (Score:2, Interesting)
Or, Japanese. (Score:2)
These guys are like aliens- just remember that.
Re:The problem with domain names (Score:3, Insightful)
This is a very sordid and very nasty issue. If you want a view from the front lines look here [domainnamerights.org].
Nissan vs. Nissan (Score:5, Interesting)
They took an existing word (in 2 languages, nonetheless) which also happens to be a surname. Now, they can't expect exclusive rights over that name.
Re:Nissan vs. Nissan (Score:2, Insightful)
I start a line of cosmetics called June.
I then make tons of money because my stuff makes old women feel young.
I then say:
Oh, now I am famous, and I ought to be able to use
june.com exclusively because any other use would dilute my brand.
And, oh, by the way, all women named June need to pay me royalties.
And, The Month of June will be renamed in the english language as "The Month formerly known as June".
Nissan is being fucking ridiculous... If they want a unique name that no one else in the world has, why don't they get a catchy IP address?
Re:Nissan vs. Nissan (Score:5, Informative)
Now it's not the same word as that used on other products to mean "Made in Japan" (that word is kokusan, "made in our nation") but it is definitely somewhat generic.
Deep Fritz (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, even while as a programmer I'm somewhat rooting for Deep Fritz, as a fellow man I can't help but be in awe of the fact that Kramnik is able to think better than a machine that "thinks" millions of times faster than him.
Re:Deep Fritz (Score:4, Interesting)
Why? I can, for instance, look at a picture of my wife and identify her as my wife in a fraction of a second. The best image-recognition software in the world can't reliably do even that simple task.
I'm not the least bit surprised to see a human beating a computer in a complex activity like chess, and that's with lots of handicaps in Fritz' favor (it doesn't have to analyze an image of the board in order to determine where the pieces are, for instance). The amazing part is not the human beating the computer, but the computer beating the human (which won't happen in this case, but it's getting close).
Re:Deep Fritz (Score:2)
Why? There are so many different things computers can do better than us, just as there are so many things that we can do better. I thought that by now computers would be able to win at chess merely by going deep enough through all potential trees to find the most advantageous move combination.
Or maybe it's all just because GNU Chess always kicks my ass, heh.
Re:Deep Fritz (Score:2)
Re:Deep Fritz (Score:2)
An increase in the number of transistors does not equate the same increase in processing power.
Re:Deep Fritz (Score:2)
Daily affirmations by Stuart Smiley....
Re:Deep Fritz (Score:2)
is a chess player vs a programmer, then
it's the same as an engineer who designed
a crane vs world champion weightlifter. Come on.
A couple corrections to the article... (Score:5, Informative)
- Bugbear actually uses one of forty different subject lines. It also sometimes throws in some random data, just for fun.
- Bugbear is a descendant of Badtrans [symantec.com], a nasty but not particularly widespread virus from earlier this year. The keystroke logger seems to have been borrowed bit-for-bit (at least in the copy I isolated and analysed).
Joustermore Weird info (Score:3, Interesting)
So who is naming these viruses? :)
Re:A couple corrections to the article... (Score:2)
Link to shuttle cam video (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Link to shuttle cam video (Score:2, Interesting)
Why cut off before SRB sep?
Why did live TV coverage switch to long-range cameras right at SRB sep?
What is wrong with this whole picture?
It may be that before launch they realized that the camera would be smoked by the SRB separation rockets but being too late to fix they gave instructions to cut away at that point.
Conspiracy freaks will come up with plenty of other explanations.
Bugbear (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, with a certain class of user, Windows' automatic updates make Windows more secure than Linux. Amoung windows users, that class is rather large. We may see less of the Code Red Viruses, but the Shoot Yourself in the Foot Viruses will continue.
Linux does have one advantage though. It is intensely hard to install programs for Linux. It is so complicated that it is very hard to automate. And as long as users have to install viruses by hand, and download the correct libraries to get them to run, you can be sure that Linux users won't have to worry much about a Linux virus spreading like wildfire across the net.
Re:Bugbear (Score:2)
You don't have to do "stupid" things anymore... "somewhat clueless" will suffice. I just got a faux bounce message, sent to the error address of one of the Phoenyx' mailing lists. Looks perfectly normal, except that it alleges that the bounced message is contained in the attachment. (Maybe it is, but so is Klez or a variant thereof, so I didn't look further.) Even if you "don't open attachments, even from people you know," I suspect that one might slip under the radar. It certainly got past someone somehow, unless I happen to be the lucky recipient of a first-gen distribution.
(Of course, perhaps "running a computer without a virus checker" itself "stupid." In which case, some of us stupid people have still never gotten a virus.)
Re:Bugbear (Score:3, Funny)
Double click.
Yes.
Next.
Next.
Next.
wait...
Next.
Finnish.
So after clicking "Next" we turn into Linus? GREAT!
Re:Bugbear (Score:2, Insightful)
There is a nice and simple way around this, though; gcc has a -static flag that compiles required library functions into the binary, removing library dependencies.
Thus, if you were designing a compiled-only, work-for-almost-all-linux-distros, you keep your binaries (relatively) small, and compile them statically.
So--if you can find a good remote-root linux exploit that's rather common, write your virus and compile it with no machine optimizations, ELF binary format, stripped, and static. That should be sufficient to get your payload down to a few kb, if you're not being really extreme. (No optimizations because you don't want to limit yourself to a specfic processor--why target only a Pentium III or higher, when you could target the whole i386/ia64 architecture family? :)
Disclaimer: I do not advocate virus-writing; nor do I, or have ever in the past, actually written malicious code. I am only stating that there's a workaround for dependency issues, even if you aren't gonna pass around the sources. (The virus reference is mostly to keep on topic.)
But '-static' does still make for a larger binary.... This is where you can still shrink it down, though, by specifying that you originally compile your code using the -I/{path-to-library}/ form; use a smaller library, like uClib.
Re:Bugbear (Score:2)
Reconsider your definition of "problem." What you're describing is most definitely a dependency problem. It's just that you're happy with solving dependency problems.
Re:Bugbear (Score:2)
Re:Bugbear (Score:2)
As far as email viruses are concerned, I say long live difficult installation.
I'm with you, if it takes a "Difficult Install" to maintain a virus free system, then I am there. Long Live the difficult install.
Nissan.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Can I register a domain name SomeCompany.com and then do the following:
My response would have been, "damn right, freedom of speech..."
But now, I'm just confused.
What did he do that violated any laws?
He's paid $2.2 million in legal fees. It's not like he had a choice about showing up in court to defend himself.
Now Nissan motors can take his domain name after all the legal bills? And if not, he'll be ordered to give them financial reparations for "diluting their brand name?"
Re:Nissan.... (Score:2, Informative)
I know he didn't do all those things, just the second one. But I may as well clear that up before 50 people post on my inaccuracies in delineating the situation at hand.
Re:Nissan.... (Score:5, Funny)
"We, the Corporations of the United States (and other countries), in order to have a more perfect customer base, establish commerce, insure domestic profits, provide for our CEOs, promote the use of tax shelters, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Crap... (Score:3, Funny)
Bring on anti-NASA the conspiracy theories...
Re:Crap... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Crap... (Score:2, Informative)
Small rocket motors in the boosters - "separation motors".
camera (Score:4, Insightful)
And it failed! I mean, what the hell?
Private space enterprises deserve to eat NASA's breakfast, dinner AND lunch once they get started.
Re:camera (Score:2, Informative)
Re:There's a long history of NASA doing this (Score:3, Interesting)
From the CNN Nissan Article (Score:3, Informative)
Interesting. I wonder if they'll be requiring Uzi Nissan to change his last name as well... after all, Nissan owns it...
Also, it bear mentioning that Uzi has spent well in excess of one million dollars defending his own last name from these assholes who didn't even use the name "Nissan" in the States until well after Uzi had registerred the domain and used it for his own business.
The corporate swines have also been using dirty tricks like filing suit across the county from where Uzi lives, in an attempt to sap his finances so he can't defend himself. (These are things Uzi himself talked about at H2K2, if you're curious about my sources)
Re:From the CNN Nissan Article (Score:2)
If I'm not mistaken you could find "Nissan" on my old Datsun 240Z too... but you had to look under the hood.
--Jim
Re:From the CNN Nissan Article (Score:2)
Nissan Motors did not think about internet when this guy opened his business. So why his business should suffer just because they awaked now?
Deep Fritz... (Score:2, Informative)
Deep Blue was a real computer, much more powerful than the 8 cpu Compaq that is running Deep Fritz, although the chess algorithms were less efficient.
Btw, i don't think computers will conquer the world as much ppl think it. Remember, computers are made by humans. Until computers can think on their own (no, computers don't think, they just execute instructions, they can emulate thinking but it's not really that) human race will always win.
Now, the end of the world will be probably when the viruses exterminate the human race, but that's another topic...
The most worrying thing... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:The most worrying thing... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:The most worrying thing... (Score:2)
I WOULD prefer Linux, ideally running on an embedded system. There would be a limited user interface and everything else would be automated.
Re:The most worrying thing... (Score:2)
Re:The most worrying thing... (Score:2)
That's OK. (Score:2)
SRB Debris (Score:5, Interesting)
That can be a problem for the crew too, or used to be. Each SRB has rocket motors that separate it from the external tank at around two minutes MET. Debris from these motors can get on the forward orbiter windows. Not too many years ago the shuttle flight software was changed - a "window washer" mod - to fire the FU RCS jets for a few seconds at SRB seperation to keep the windscreen clear of debris.
Just thought you'd be interested to know...
--JIm
HIPAA vs. MS (Score:4, Insightful)
"...the health care industry needs to go to Microsoft with a joint NDA (nondisclosure agreement) and indemnification agreement, requiring Microsoft to hold their HIPAA-compliant customers harmless should patient information be leaked via this mechanism."
Not a prayer that MS would agree, but it will be interesting when they get pulled into court the first time a provider claims it was the update and MS forced them to allow it.
The regulatory oversight may do more to open MS software than the DOJ. Logic, reason, and innovation are not the watch words of these organizations. Regulations were passed, comply or be destroyed.
It is hard for me to decide who I want to win. MS or the regulators...
licensing agreements (Score:5, Interesting)
We've been told at my University that we (as system administrators) can go ahead and click the "I accept" on any Microsoft service pack or hotfix, our licensing agreement with M$ overrides anything they put in a EULA.
Microsoft could actually wind up violating their own agreement if they take action not specified in the big license.
Re:licensing agreements (Score:2)
So Microsoft violates the big agreement, University sues, stating that Microsoft violated their agreement.
Microsoft argues that installing software is tantamount to rewriting the old agreement, and countersues for libel. (Saying that such a major company violated a major agreement will cause a major reduction in stock values.)
Oh, how the legal system is so...
all about money (Score:5, Insightful)
Nissan paid $400 million in building the brand. So, if I register my family name and some company just happens to come along and spends $400mil promoting their brand which happens to be the same as my family name, is it even fair for them to sue me?
Just because they spend more money? They could at least have offered to reimburse the costs to change his business name and re-market. Probably less than they're paying their team of lawyers for the duration of the lawsuit.
Re:all about money (Score:2, Informative)
When Nissan first decided that they wanted the domain, they did try to good faith negotiate for the domain, however Mr. Nissan then offered up a price tag...of $15,000,000 (he now claims that he, uh, wasn't serious...he was just being rhetorical he claims). He had every intention of capitalizing upon the fact that the overwhelming majority of people going to nissan.com were looking for an auto company, and he planned on making Nissan pay. That's why we're in a situation with Nissan taking a big black eye while this guy cries his crocodile tears (he recently put up a site to make it look like a computer company. For the longest time it was nothing like it, but instead was a banner factory).
Bugbear... (Score:3, Insightful)
Idiots that don't patch their systems will be vulnerable on any OS don't you think?
Boycott Nissan (Motors) and tell them why! (Score:3, Interesting)
Whenever these cases come up we read the lawyers and spokespeople telling us they have to do this to "protect the brand", or to "prevent consumers from being confused". Real squatters aside, this is generally total crap. Consumers in any demographic able to buy a car will quickly realize Nissan Computer != Nissan Motors and while brands need to be protected to a certain extent in order to avoid becoming generic (like kleenex, or xerox) the chance of "nissan" becoming a generic term is slim to none (and not just because it doesn't have an 'x'). Trademarks apply to specific categories only, and this limitation should help to prevent dilution happening from unrelated uses of the same mark. Companies that try to over extend their marks should do so only at their own risk, and I bet that willy nilly suing other users probably does more to imply dilution than just leaving things be (Ob.IANAL but this should be true even if it's not the actual law).
Actually, I doubt any of these cases stem from the marketing department, more likely the lawyers are trying to justify their salaries and budgets. But if the sales and marketing people thought these tactics were hurting their brand they could override legal in a second. Enough slashdotters are young professionals with a well paying job and interest in new products to present a very attractive demographic to these people. Let them know you're pissed!
Re:Boycott Nissan (Motors) and tell them why! (Score:2)
How many of us will be buying a new car in the next month? The next year? I know I won't be looking for a new car until at least after the warranty on my Hyundai wears out. And even then I won't be looking at Nissans anyway as they design their cars for Japanese drivers (and I'm a bit larger than the average Japanese driver). And I sure as hell won't be buying one of their "trucks" because I know that real trucks don't have sparkplugs (they're actually proud of helping to introduce the "light truck" class?).
At worst your boycott idea will rob Nissan of what, half a dozen vehicle sales in all the North American market?
Re:Boycott Nissan (Motors) and tell them why! (Score:2)
What these cases really need is a judge to say, "sorry McDonald's, this one's easy. You lose."
nissan.com (Score:3, Insightful)
The judge decided that the Internet wasn't that big of a deal in 1994, so the 5 year span between the registration of nissan.com and 1999 when they sued was ok. WHAT? Explain to me how this is ok? Uzi had it first, tough shit if they didn't decide that the Internet wasn't all that important.
Early bird gets the worm. Money should have no bearing on who gets what domain.
If I were Uzi, I would tell them to use nissancomputer.com for themselves.
Just my worthless
Deep Fritz vs Deep Blue (Score:5, Interesting)
Press releases touting this week's match boast that Fritz has beaten both Kasparov and Deep Blue. The win over Kasparov came, however, in a super fast kind of chess, where computers have a decided edge. And Fritz didn't really beat Deep Blue-it beat an early version of its software running on slower hardware.
Do I think that there is an added value to better algorithms and pruning methods over pure computational firepower? Sure, but you need to keep in mind that now that Deep Blue has been disassembled, there is no way to get an honest, head to head comparison.
As if it matters, I still get my but kicked by good old GNU Chess.
Re:Deep Fritz vs Deep Blue (Score:2, Interesting)
Deep Blue was being "adjusted" nightly. So a computer plus 6 people were playing on one side of the board.
Yes, Deep Blue won, but to me, it was not a machine vs man... Deep Blue was being debugged.
the human formerly known as nissan (Score:2, Funny)
Well, at least his first name [imi-israel.com] isn't already taken or anything.
I wish there was a band called Uzi Nissan. I'd totally be into them.
Entire Shuttle video here (Score:5, Informative)
Just the tank camera, no cutaways, all the way from launch to SRB seperation.
Play it fast (hold the frame advance button down) for another cool view of the whole launch in about 15 seconds.
Deep Fritz? (Score:2)
If it is...I want a copy of that OS...it doesn't crash for seven billion years! However, a product flaw causes lazers to vaporize the hardware when it does crash...
Nasa Footage (Score:3, Informative)
It's pretty sweet.
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
A rundown of the various options (Score:2)
If you read through all the things listed maybe you would realise some people _can't_ install microsoft's patches because of there EULA requirements.
Let's see...
Unpatched windows: Bugbear.
Patched windows: No bugbear, but all your file are belong to Microsoft.
LindowsOS: Different enough from the Win9x and WinNT lines that it may not catch the same viruses. Definitely comes with a mailer that's not susceptible to the iframe bug.
Fourth option [mandrakesoft.com]. Fifth option [freebsd.org]. Sixth option [slackware.com]. Seventh option [debian.org].
Choose the one most appealing to you.
Re:Moderation of "Dad, please switch to a real os" (Score:2)
I see you ran across my post here [slashdot.org]!