Venezuela Goes Open Source 340
Odinson sent in this news blurb from LinuxToday, reporting that Venezuela has adopted a policy for the use of Open Source software in government wherever possible. Apparently they have practical rather than philosophical motivations: keeping cash in the country and promoting local software development.
Keeping money local (Score:2, Flamebait)
"Why should we send our money to *gasp* Redmond when we can get an equally capable system for substantially less?"
Of course, you could make the same argument about whatever city Red Hat is in. Maybe it's something only people outside the US can make.
Re:Keeping money local (Score:2, Interesting)
So even though our state saving money sounds good to us tax payers, it's not always what's on the minds of the IT managers of our local governments apparently.
Re:Keeping money local (Score:2)
"Why should we send our money to *gasp* Redmond when we can get an equally capable system for substantially less?"
California is at least in the same part of the world as Microsoft. Maybe a better example would be Florida...
Re:Keeping money local (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course, you could make the same argument about whatever city Red Hat is in. Maybe it's something only people outside the US can make.
When a Venezuelan can move to the United States as easilly as a Californian can move to Redmond, and visa versa, then the comparison (or its inverse sarcastic corallary) will hold water. Until then, the flow of wealth across international boarders will have a decidedly different economic implication that the flow of wealth across American state lines.
That having been said, the flow of wealth into the pockets of a monopoly is never a good thing, but that has nothing to do with state (or international) boundries.
Re:Keeping money local (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Keeping money local (Score:2)
Tsunami (Score:2, Insightful)
But as it approaches shallower waters that little ripple can become hundreds of feet tall, decimating everything that stands against it in its path.
I do believe we have seen the first ripples of a slow moving wave....
*grin*
Re:Leisure Suit Solarrys (Score:2)
I don't see why they can't live on as a hardware-vendor.
Do you think that MS will fund the next coup? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Do you think that MS will fund the next coup? (Score:3, Funny)
30 Aug 2002: Venezuela switches to open source.
31 Aug 2002: Venezuela explodes in utter chaos as Microsoft (and Microsoft's lackey, Apple) shuts down every computer running Windows or MacOS, remotely.
1 Sept 2002: Bloodless CIA-backed coup overthrows Venezuelan government, establishes military dictatorship. Computers "myseriously" work again.
2 Sept 2002: Open source advocates in Venezuela government "disappear." Pro-Microsoft death squads hunt down and execute their first Linux users. Penguinistas counter with violent reprisals, distribute Linux boxes to peasants, natives.
Hey, it would fit the historical pattern.
Re:Do you think that MS will fund the next coup? (Score:2)
Re:Do you think that MS will fund the next coup? (Score:2)
Err...yeah. Apple and Microsoft just love each other.
They aren't trying to beat each other to death, mostly because for MS it isn't worth the effort, and because for Apple it isn't feasible.
Re:Do you think that MS will fund the next coup? (Score:2)
Therefore, Venezuela must be a TERRORIST NATION. Bush will be instituting a regime change there in favour of a more Microsoft friendly government any day now.
Venezuela was already on Bush's "hit list" anyway. Indeed they are fairly unique in managing to survive such at attempt at subverting their government recently. Anyway the US appears to have its full with neighbouring Colombia
Re: Do you think that MS will fund the next coup? (Score:2)
> Hopefully this isn't just a stunt to draw microsoft attention, so they can get some free s/w
Maybe someone in Venezuela figured out that they win either way?
Re: Do you think that MS will fund the next coup? (Score:2)
Yep. But you better watch your tail feathers.
Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:4, Insightful)
Their fear is a good old 50's style domino effect. First Venezuela, then Costa Rica, then Mexico. Pretty soon, Peru ignore's Bill's gift horse and converts as well. Before you know it, all of Latin America will be running Linux. I don't think this will happen, but I bet Microsoft thinks it could.
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Linux will dominate. Windows will be relegated to the trash heap, which is exactly what it deserves.
BSD-licensed stuff will be around for a long time, but it will always be a small player for the simple fact that developers have no guarantee that those benefitting from the code have to give back.
Oh, and by the way, this domination won't stop at South America, I'm just keeping the argument in the same scope as you're making it. I think GPL OSes and software will dominate the entire planet before the decade is out.
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Didn't claim wide use in Bhutan. But you can bet that they have computers in government - which is to the point here.
They do finance operations internationally, even if the scale is 'hundred millions' and not 'tens of billions.' That isn't managed by paper cheques and letters of credit.
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
They do finance operations internationally, even if the scale is 'hundred millions' and not 'tens of billions.' That isn't managed by paper cheques and letters of credit.
Re:Huh? (Score:2)
Sure. So does typesetting and a lot of other things that no one in their right mind is going to try and do without computers nowadays.
In short, and similar signs in scandinavia (Score:3, Interesting)
Similar kind of opinions have been heard here in scandinavia, apparently atleast in Sweden, Denmark and Finland. If you understand finnish, here's the article [digitoday.fi].
GPL (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:GPL (Score:3, Insightful)
I wonder why they wanted to limit it just to GPL? That's what the article clearly says anyway. Considering they are planning to for example make commercial closed source and open source systems co-exist, I see some practical reasons why something the original BSD license or atleast LGPL would be much more suitable in some cases. So, WHY did they name only GPL and not for example the whole OSI [opensource.org] suite - - - or does the article contain rotten details :)
Re:GPL (Score:4, Informative)
GPL does not stop E&E (Score:2)
The GPL mostly prevents "free rider syndrome", where people use code in their own programs without contributing anything to the original authors. It only does this to a fairly limited extent, and the LGPL is even more limited (by design), but they both place more obligations on re-users of the code than the purely defensive licenses.
No truly "open source" license can defend against the tactic of "reimplement, embrace, and extend" though, which is what Microsoft did to Kerberos.
Re:GPL (Score:2)
They will have too.
:)
Otherwise then can't even use GNULIBC (it is licensed under Lesser GPL).
Re:GPL (Score:3, Informative)
In other news.. (Score:2, Funny)
Re:In other news.. (Score:2)
Venezuela? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Venezuela? (Score:2)
I think the idea is more in the way of customization and extension of existing open source apps to the unique needs of Venezuela government contracts. So, if mySQL lacked a certain feature, you could spend the equivilant cost of buying MS SQL, or Oracle on local software companies to make SQL fit the project. Or at least that is how I would implement it.
A nation's cashflow balanc is very important, if money stays in the country it will stimulate the local exonomy, if it goes to microsoft, it will stimulate whatever MS investments decides to buy to store its enormous cash reserves. Of course the US has a masive trade debt, and depends on foriegn capital investment to make it up, Venezuela is unlikely to attract such massive capital investments.
Re:Venezuela? (Score:2)
Why GPL only? (Score:3, Interesting)
It is surprising that this decision seems to exclude other free licenses such as the BSD. Does this mean that they wont use things like Mozilla (isnt it the NPL?) and FreeBSD? What did they find objectionable about the other licenses?
Re:Why GPL only? (Score:2, Informative)
/Janne
Re:Why GPL only? (Score:2)
Huh? You can't change licenses willy-nilly. Are you saying that a country, because it's soveriegn, should have this right? Are you saying that the copyright holders should just give up on BSD and adopt the GPL (or dual-license)? I don't understand your point.
Re:Why GPL only? (Score:2)
I think he's saying that the BSD license is very liberal -- as long as you attribute the original authors, you can do whatever you like with the code, including using the code in a GPL'd application. This right extends even to circumstances where the GPL'd application consists of nothing but formerly BSD'd code. So essentially, the BSD license permits re-licensing of the code as GPL (or even closed-source, as Microsoft and others have done).
Re:Why GPL only? (Score:2)
Though actually, Mozilla isn't yet completely tri-licensed. There are still a grand total of four missing hackers [mozilla.org] who will need to approve their contributions being relicensed [mozilla.org].
So if you know David Nebinger, Uncle George (fear the jokes in reply to this), Makoto Kato or Thierry LeBouil - let them get in touch!
Re:Why GPL only? (Score:2)
The situation with Mozillas Relicensing is complicated
They will eventaully have an MPL/NPL/GPL triple licence. All new checkins must conform to this. Unfortunately a lot of their code was submitted by non-Netscape employees before they announced their GPL plans, which means they have to track down everybody and get explicit permission or rewrite that piece of the code.
The standard Mozilla installer clickwrap says the code you are installing is licenced under the MPL only.
Not really surprising (Score:5, Informative)
First, you are I think confusing two separate issues.
1) Open Source software will be used by government wherever possible. This definition includes a superset of free software, and especially includes FreeBSD, Mozilla, the NPL, and other licenses in addition to the GPL.
2) Software developed for the government must be GPLed. Their reasoning is probably something along the lines that public moneys, funding public projects (like government-written, or government funded software) shouldn't be appropriated for personal gain, especially by foreign monopolies [microsoft.com] that will embrace, extend, and ultimately seek to destroy a competing product.
Not an unreasonable stance for them to take, actually.
The article isn't entirely clear, but from my reading it appears that the government will use free software and open source software wherever possible (of whatever licenses they deem appropriate), proprietary software where they must, but any software developed for the government (presumably by contract, perhaps at times even by government personnel) will be GPLed, with its freedom and accessiblity to the public thereby protected for the duration of the copyright. A damn fine idea IMHO.
MOD PARENT UP (Score:2)
Phillip.
Re:Not really surprising (Score:2)
FYI, all of the licenses you mentioned (FreeBSD is not a license, BSD is), are considered Free Software/Software Libre licenses [fsf.org].
Re:Not really surprising (Score:2)
Ah, idealism
Again, it is all about makign as much of the money circulate IN the Venezuelan economy as possible. Furthermore, I think that your argument starts to lose weight when you consider that the software is paid using Venezuelan tax money, and Venezuala does not have much of a software industry.
I for one see no reason why money developed using Venezuelan tax money should be available for every US citizen free of conditions.
Re:Not really surprising (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes it is available to EVERYONE.
It is not available to everyone for every PURPOSE, but that isn't the same thing.
I could use a bunch of real-world analogies, like how the village bicycle isn't available to be taken and stored in your home forever, or how a freeway being free doesn't mean you can set up your own toll booths on it... But these all involve the physical-scarcity concept. They may help convey some principles, but they fall short.
So instead let me say it without analogy thusly: just because you can't use GPL software to form a proprietary, non-free package for you to sell at prices inflated by artificial scarcity, doesn't mean it isn't available to you.
GPL for development (Score:2)
Rey also outlined additional details of the plan. Besides the government's GPL requirement, the policy requires that the official accounting application for Venezeula must be a GPL'ed application.
I read it that any open-source software is fine for use (with the exception of accounting, which I'd agree is weird). GPL is just the development license. That's only a problem in that government programers won't be able to have their changes folded back into non-GPL software.
Re:Why GPL only? (Score:2)
The main idea behind it is that the goverment will provide a sourceforge-like repository to keep and manage all the government systems. That guarantees the continuity of the development (you would be surprised if you knew all the systems that are un-mantained in our governemnt, and cant be because the original contractor ran away).
It also seems like a fair policy: if the software development is being funded using the contributors money the contributors should have access to the code
Makes sense. (Score:4, Interesting)
When you're rich, the time and sacrifices needed for philosophy are cheap. When you're poor, the practical rules the roost.
Pithy comments aside, this only reinforces what I have come to believe in recent months: that the eventual dominance of Linux/open source is an economic inevitability.
The reasoning behind this is very simple, and has nothing to do with blind zealotry. Capitalism does not tolerate inefficiency. If you can do something better than your competitors, or if you can do the same thing but cheaper, you will have an advantage and the natural selection of the free market will elevate you above the rest.
Linux is more efficient in economic terms. Right now of course, it's "efficiency" is being held back by the number of rough edges that need polishing, the huge resources needed to overcome Microsoft lockin and so on. However, these are becoming less and less all the time. Eventually (like within a few years) Linux will be as good as Windows, as well as compatible with it thanks to the efforts of the wine/samba/OpenOffice/NTFS crews. At that point, you can be better and cheaper at the same time by using it. The result? Market dominance.
It has another advantage as well - multiple vendors. History shows that economics favours systems with multiple vendors: witness Macs vs PCs, or VHS vs Betamax.
Re:Makes sense. (Score:2, Insightful)
At the same time, office/business types probably won't use linux till they can see at least most of the edges are starting to be polished - they might not require perfection but they will require serious improvement over needing to know linux command line to do basic tasks, whether those tasks are opening an office app, creating files/directories or just system maintenance.
Re:Makes sense. (Score:2)
You can bet that in Venezuela business types are going to at least standardize on StarOffice/OpenOffice, if not go whole hog and switch to Linux. The reason for this is simple. They will want to be compatible with the folks in the government. After all, when the government asks you for a form in OpenOffice format, MS Word format isn't going to be particularly useful. At least in Venezuela the whole document conversion problem is going to be on the other foot. OpenOffice is going to be the de-facto standard, and everyone else is going to have to emulate it.
My guess, from my experience living in Chile and Peru, is that the businessfolks in Venezuela will probably run StarOffice on a Windows machine (because they can get the OS for free), but this is still a big start.
Re:Makes sense. (Score:2)
Mandrake and SuSE are very polished and EVERYTHING can be done with a GUI.
But how should you know, you probably have never used any decent and recent Linux distribution like most of the other Linux-bashers.
Re: Makes Sense (Score:2, Redundant)
Yeah, tell that to Digital (DR-DOS) and dozens of others Microsoft has crushed over the years.
Re: Makes Sense (Score:2)
Today, a PC that is decent for office work is, say $1000 - of which $400 is MS software. Make that almost zero with 90% of the functionality and 99% of the average office workers used functionality and you have an unbeatable deal.
Secondly DR-DOS presumably cost a considerable fraction of the cost of DOS. Linux / Open Office / Mozilla / Samba on a per seat basis costs say $20 as opposed to $400 - that is 5%. That sort of saving is too great too ignore.
Finally, Linux and open source tools have thousands of people working on them and despite disputes between KDE and Gnome and whatnot everyone contributes to the strength of Open source and Linux.
The only thing holding Linux back is network effects from the massive installed Windows base. But that will be overcome with time.
There have been half a dozen or more of these stories of government and large IT sections adopting Linux in areas with thousands of seats. The tide has turned.
It will be interesting indeed (Score:2)
Re:It will be interesting indeed (Score:2)
WILL be as good?!? (Score:2)
Can somebody point out the areas where Linux isn't yet as good as Windows? Granted, you can't run as many Windows Apps on Linux as you can on Windows, but then different versions of Windows have the same problem. IMHO, 2002 will go down in history as the year Linux ease of use surpassed that of Windows. What else do we still need to fix?
Re:Makes sense. (Score:2)
Re:Makes sense. (Score:2)
True enough. But one of the features of the Internet is that it makes lots more information available much more easily and -- for now -- with little economic cost. That's why it's not too surprising that the revolution, when it comes, will start in the information fields...
Re:Makes sense. (Score:2)
> perfectly in a capitalistic sense, particularly since Microsoft is a
> monopoly and the odds of our changing that through legal action grow
Monopolies are not viable in the long term (though they sure can make
a trainload of money in the short and medium term). It takes (from
the consumer's perspective) an immense while, but if a monopoly
becomes sufficiently total to be secure, it loses the incentive to
produce a competitive product and rots from the inside out until
_eventually_ the product it produces is so bad that consumers broaden
their thinking and look past the entire market for that product to
parallel markets for dissimilar but substitutable products. Applied
to Microsoft, this might mean that (if they gain and retain a complete
monopoly, which has not happened yet and may not at all; Unix has
increased its user base (as in, number of users) by a respectable
percentage every year since it was created, albeit not as fast as
Windows did) in a couple hundred years consumers would decide they
don't actually need an operating system at all, either because they
can computer without one (using special-purpose devices) or because
they don't need computers as we think of them due to the emmergence of
some other new product. Humans are rigidly inflexible when they can
be but amazingly adaptable in the face of long term dire need.
> Anyway, point is that I'm not sure we can safely model Linux with
> current economic theory, so those predictions aren't safe.
I'm not sure whether I'm about to disagree with you or only clarify
what you said, but here goes... I believe we can understand the
ecconomic influence of Linux specifically and OSS in general (and they
does have an ecconomic influence) using standard ecconomic models.
However, Linux is not a widget. (For those who haven't had econ: a
widget is a good or service that is supplied to profit from a demand.
This is a simplification, but it will do for our purposes here.)
Support may be a widget, and therefore in some cases certain features
may be widgets (if a customer you support wants a feature, you may
implement it for that reason), but OSS is not primarily a widget.
Microsoft still views Linux as a widget, as a product in direct
competition with their own products. A lot of Linux advocates seem to
view it that way too, but it's a faulty view. OSS cannot be viewed
only as a competitor to closed software; it is more than that.
For example, OSS is for many people a _hobby_. This does NOT mean
that we have to throw everything we know about ecconomics out the
window. Ecconomists know about hobbies to a large extent. Hobbies
are important to ecconomists, because they produce spending behavior.
If you want to understand the ecconomic impact of OSS, you have to
understand (among other things) that while it _may_ reduce the demand
for Windows (though that has not been demonstrated) and commercial
unices (there is less doubt here) it increases the demand for a number
of other products, e.g., PC hardware (this is a no-brainer) and
broadband internet access (because more updates are freely available
than for Windows and also because of the desire of hobbiests to host
development projects and mirrors and such). Furthermore, the increase
in demand for related parephenalia is not the only impact a hobby has
on the ecconomy. There are also interesting effects in terms of the
labour supply (because the way people are spending their free time has
an impact on how much labour they are willing to supply), consumer
morale (which influences buying, saving, and investing behavior), and
marketing for other products, which can often benefit from identifying
with peoples' hobbies.
Then there's the whole question of worker productivity, because Linux
is not just a hobby, it's also a useful tool. But I'll stop now,
because I belive I've made my point: Linux is not a widget, but that
doesn't mean ecconomic theory can't make observations about it.
Re:Makes sense. (Score:2)
Capitalism without capital is just another ism.
Only the beginning? (Score:5, Insightful)
These could be examples for others to look to when deciding policy. The more that say no to Microsoft, the more likely that others will also say no.
The only worry I have is what the response from Microsoft will be...how much money will they throw at Venezuala to persuade them to change their minds?
Re:Only the beginning? (Score:2)
California, Peru, the UK, etc... have all *considered* it without jumping in the water. Venezuela seems to be the first to actually do it.
Re:Only the beginning? (Score:2)
Not an entire state, but the city of Largo, Florida uses Linux and thin clients.
http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=01/08/10/14
Re:Only the beginning? (Score:2)
microsoft cares because if several countries adopt it for government, that means better and better tools will be developed, and that means that eventually it WILL be a real threat to them in the US.
In other news... (Score:2, Funny)
Article (Score:3, Interesting)
I hope other countries take note of this. While I'm a skittish about requiring GPL, GPL certainly seems like it would be perfect for not-so-wealthy nations. And isn't any other nation concerned that the vast majority of their IT infrastructure is controlled by a power hungry corporation in the United States? If I were in a country like say Germany, I'm not sure I'd be happy having my government using Microsoft products that report who knows what, and gives them total privileges to all the computers in the name of "fixing bugs".
Re:The 3rd World and the GPL (Score:2)
Come on. Forget it.
Software is ruled by backwards-compatibility. Once a company has the majority of a market, network effects will make it a de-facto monopoly (see Windows, Photoshop, Quicken, etc.)
There are only 2 ways to break that and both are not possible for Venezuela:
Bundle it with Windows (See Office and IE)
or
Give it away for free.
Could turn out to be unwise move (Score:4, Interesting)
Just changing the public procurement like this may prove to be fatal to cost and efficiency. I think proprietary code and open code should compete on the same terms. The license is not the only thing defining the efficiency of a certain solution. If openness is a valid demand from a democracy point of view, openness should be introduced in copyright law to make everyone on the market work on the same terms. I do not find it feasible from an efficiency point of view to mandate only one type of license in public procurement.
See also my article on open code in public procurement [pawlo.com] published by Newsforge.
Regards,
Mikael
Re:Could turn out to be unwise move (Score:2)
Re:Could turn out to be unwise move (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Could turn out to be unwise move (Score:2)
If Peru also goes open source... (Score:2, Funny)
then we'll have a continent!
Re:If Peru also goes open source... (Score:2)
Excepting Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay, Ecuador, Colombia, Guyana, Surinam and French Guiana.
Brazil is interesting, since it is should theoretically be amongst the richest countries on the planet, if not the richest.
Re:If Peru also goes open source... (Score:2)
When in doubt, retreat to Australia.
GPL (Score:2)
I usually think in terms of "open source" meaning OSI approved licence. I wonder what the "gaps" are in terms of types of apps that aren't really ready using GPL only. Some of the things that come to mind are: enterprise grade RDBMS, java swing libraries, RDBMS report writer. For that matter, is Apache's licence GPL compatible !? If not, what will they use? Is there an AutoCAD solution? Is there a geocoding solution? What other GPL gaps are out there?
Re: GPL (Score:2)
The Domino Theory (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsoft cannot allow Venezuela to do this. If any country switches to Open Source, and it is a success, Microsoft is in deep shit. Other countries would follow the lead, and soon Microsoft would be forced to implement huge price cuts just to have any chance at all.
If this is a success in Venezuela, I believe that in the near future the US Govt will be one of the very few running any version of Windows. Billy and Steve will throw however much money it takes at Washington to keep things that way.
But can they buy off the whole world?
Speaking of Domino Theory, the rest are falling! (Score:2)
Speaking of The Domino Theory: Did you notice the list of related stories?
Linux Journal: Pakistan Government Looks to the Linux Users Group [linuxtoday.com](Jul 15, 2002)
Update: Linux Bill Introduced in Finland [linuxtoday.com](Jun 18, 2002)
Update: Ending Microsoft FUD: An Interview with Peruvian Congressman Villanueva [linuxtoday.com](May 21, 2002)
GNU.org.pe: Peruvian Congressman's Open Letter to Microsoft [linuxtoday.com](May 07, 2002)
Enterprise Linux Today: Venezuelan Bank Marks Major Financial Deployment of Linux for S/390 [linuxtoday.com](May 03, 2001)
Looks like a row of dominoes to me. B-)
Re:The Domino Theory (Score:2)
Good point. "Momentum" is very important in user adoption of a technology. One of the interesting effects of foreign governments/businesses developing GPL software is that it provides other nations with the GPL software that they need to make the switch.
China is developing office software. Venezuela is developing a GPL'd accounting application. Linux needs large "enterprise-ready" applications and it looks like foreign governments may be the ones that finally write them.
I'm just tickled by this.
Internal Microsoft Memo (Score:3, Insightful)
TO: THE TROOPS
RE: GET MOVING ON VENEZUELA DONATIONS
Hey kids. Just got my desktop machine working again after that last service pack (what a bitch that was, huh?). And what did I see in my daily Linux Encroachment report? Apparently some piss-ant country that we could buy and sell like it was a stick of bubble gum is mandating open source software in government. How did we miss this one? Peru, Venezulela, I get them all mixed up anyway. But you know what this means! Pack your bags, it's time for a field trip!
I figure 10,000 brand new PCs for the schools, pre-loaded with Windows XP and Word, plus a nice plaque and a fruit basket, that should be enough to get them to drop this stupid idea.
And this time, let's be sure that the blue screens start coming up in about 8 months. I think Venezuala will be able to afford the Win2K upgrades we'll offer them to fix the problem.
Get moving! This one should be even easier than ol' Meheeko was.
xoxox,
BillG
Original interview (Spanish) (Score:2)
I remember Peru... (Score:2)
And when will MS "donate" a few zillion dollars in licenses to Venezuela?
Microsoft is helping by locking things down... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now that XP - Office and OS - make casual copying difficult, I wonder how fast folks will transition. Often stuff gets installed first, legal details second. That seems to be fading... I won't touch XP for my work or personal equipment, and I don't see very much in my dealings with corporate America either. 2K, lots... but little XP. Better chance of finding win95 on the box out there.
Anyhow, when you do it now, you pay. You have to think about what this thing is going to cost. Less hiding, playing OEM games, and avoiding the $300+/box/year they are going to sock you with. That adds up whether it's a small city department, school, whatever. Of course that one Linux CD will work at home and office. Not perfect, but getting there....
Philosophical vs. Practical (Score:2)
How to promote to governments (Score:2)
Pragmatic thoughts: Bruce Perens (Score:2)
Let The Guinea Pigs Loose! (Score:2)
Fine. A test to see what happens to a country that does this. Smart countries considering such a plan will hold off to "wait and see" what kind of impact this has. Unfortunately, the very nature of long term effects is that they will take... well... a long term to take effect. The short-term impacts (learning curve, etc.) are already well known. However, at least a few years from now we can say "let's look at V and see what people are saying".
HOLY SHIT! VENEZUELA ADDED TO THE AXIS OF EVIL!!! (Score:3, Funny)
August 29, 2002:
In a stunning move with far-reaching global implications, the Bush Administration added the South American nation of Venezuela to the Axis of Evil. When asked why the sudden change was made, Ari Fleischer responded "As President Bush said, "You're either with us, or you're against us.", and Venezuela has sided with the pirates and terrorists of the world by allowing Weapons of Mass IP Destruction into its governmental computing systems.
Reports from inside sources are confirming that the decision was made after careful consultation with key members of the IP industry who explained that Venezuela released an IP-destroying Pac-Man virus into its governmental IT infrastructure and now any IP that gets sent to Venezuela is being sucked into a giant vortex of piracy and thievery!
When asked whether or not the US would invade Venezuela, Fleischer responded "We _were_ concerned about Iraq, and we were going to invade, but Iraq has to be put on the back burner for a while. Iraq's physical weapons like nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons are dangerous and a threat to world security, but they can ONLY destroy all life as we know it! An IP-destroying Pac-Man virus could destroy all of CAPITALISM as we know it! Now what's worse: being dead or having to be a long-haired hippy who has to WORK for a living doing something that's directly beneficial to society. So, to answer your question: Venezuela will be pockmarked with giant glowing craters within the next 72 hours."
Reports are coming in from Norfolk and Guantanamo Naval Air Station that the ships of the Atlantic fleet are preparing to leave, and three nuclear submarines have passed through the Panama Canal within the last 12 hours, leaving little doubt that a serious military buildup is occuring.
More Clever Spin on slashdot. (Score:5, Interesting)
I lived in Colombia for the past two years before coming home. And Colombia and Venezuela are both full of computets. All kinds. Though SCO is a pretty popular OS over there. Many old school cobol accounting apps running on it.
ANYWAY. I do not think MS is too worried about losing Venezuela. When you go to a computer store in either country they give you windows free with the pc. Not a licnesed copy. They give you the cost of the liscense, you can get windows with a liscense or without. Who the fuck is gonna choose to pay more money? Not Latin Americans. They gotta pinch pennies. And if they got the money they will not do it anyway.
If you buy that liscsense, you better call MS from the store and verify it is valid, cause it is probably hoked up anyway.
I installed several large networks and ordered Dell PC's for the warranties and I could be sure I was getting the licenses legally. And I did. All windows and my big Red Hat Server.
You think Chavez would actually pay Gates? With latins get the money up front. You think if Chavez used pirate software, gates could do something about it? NO. Venezuela is an entity for itself.
This might look like a win for us but is just clever spin from our community.
Venezuela could care less about its systems. What you got is some good sysadmins whispering free in Politicians ears, makes the Politicians look good, like they were paying for software anyway.
In those countries software, music piracy is an accepted norm. You can buy burned cd's in shopping centers on the streets. They will chip your playstation while you wait. This announcement will not garner any interest there. People are too worried about food and shelter.
And yeah there are nice areas. For the privileged few. The top 5 percent. Yeah I two ISDN lines in my apartment. And the montly cost would have fed a family of five.
Show me where opensource benefits latin america. Medical records, state agencies, but until then this announcement has all the weight of Pam Anderson announcing her new fashion line.
Puto
Naysayers : STFU (Score:3, Informative)
1) Venezuela doesn't matter. Only a few computers; the people know little about technology.
2) It's wrong for government to mandate software, it should be freedom of choice.
First, I have to say I'm stunned that anyone would post such nonsense.
One, Venezuela has some very, very intellectual and highly intelligent people. They are in no way "backwards" or "technically illiterate". Are theere peasants in Venezuela? Of course. There are also illiterates in the USA, get over it.
Two, government mandating software is wrong? Are you peope living in the USA? Have you ever HEARD of the USA? The government and military of the USA mandate Microsoft products almost across the board. Nearly any company you could get a job at has strict policies to use Microsoft solutions only. The largest, most powerful government in the world is mandating Microsoft products nearly universally, in both the private and public sectors, and has dragged it's heels on solving the problem through legal means for God knows how many years. So, don't yap when a single country chooses freedom. As an American, it's sickening for me to hear that argument. It's nonsense.
STFU.
Application Barrier to Entry cuts both ways (Score:2)
If they don't do that, companies and countries which switch to Open Source software will be able to say, "Huh? Run MS Office? You must be kidding! It can't read most of my documents, and I won't be able to send useful documents to any of my colleagues in other organizations because they can't read MS formats!"
The thing is, that outcome doesn't need Open Source to completely displace the MS Hegemony to be effective; it only needs enough market share to make the fact that Open Source is harming MS's sales obvious to the press, then the bad PR from MS's incompatibilities will basically force them to play ball.
Every country should consider the same issues. (Score:2, Insightful)
How is this good for the country? It is Government's duty to keep public information public and freely accesible, ensure that it's always available, and be able to select service providers instead of "product" providers. Usage of open and free standards combined with open source applications guarantee this, which is a citizen's right. Notice that the Government is acting as a customer, setting the rules for the kind of products it wants to buy or fund; in this case, as a customer, it has a mandate to act in the best interest of the People.
By funding only GPL software it ensures that information systems are not only State's property, but also long lived and in a constant state of evolution and refinement, as a consequence of the nature of the free software development schema. This also ensures that Government money (that, in the end, comes from its citizens) goes back to the Citizens that are able to program, customize, install, configure, support and/or teach open source/free software.
Of course that training (for technical and non-technical targets), migration plans from propietary to free software and analysis of the many issues surrounding this decision have been taken into account. And members of academia are also involved as advisors. Many of Mr. Villanueva's ideas have been studied and changed accordingly, in this case it looks like is way past the "proposal" stage.
Hope I had shed a bit of light on the subject.
PS: roblimo, I'm the obnoxious venezuelan guy you met on Atlanta two years ago... these were the news I was talking about.
--
I'm neither pro-Chavez nor anti-Chavez.
I'm just pro freedom and anti stupidity, that's why I only use free software.
Interesting consequence (Score:2)
Re:The Little Guy Strikes Back! (Score:2)
He now has a ready made excuse for any problems with the economy. Being at war or a state similar to war tends to help incumbent heads of state win elections.
Perhaps it's just an iconoclastic move, perhaps Microsoft will join american predecessors and back their own coup to get back in. Heck, fruit companies did it, right?
The first to do it were sugar companies, since Venezuela has oil, it might well be a candidate to become questionable state number 3 in the USA.
Re:Practical most of philosophical anyway. (Score:3, Interesting)
Open Source, which promotes competition via innovation instead of competition via information hoarding as closed source does, is a good way to spurn and encourage domestic development, which in turn pumps their economy up.
Its true that MS cant do much more than take your money, but how often do you think that money goes back into the country that spent it? Usually it just joins that 40 billion in the bank they have, which in no way helps those countries financially. And as we've all seen, simply owning the software itself does not allow you to generate wealth; software has become a neccessity in administrative tasks such as running countries, so why not shop for solutions in the homes & stores of your citizens and help them attain a higher standard of living.
Re:Practical most of philosophical anyway. (Score:2)
Re:Practical most of philosophical anyway. (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, the backdoors need not be related to the Windows Update site-- there has been concern in the German government about the possibility of NSA-mandated backdoors via crypto-api etc. Do, I don't think you are up on this issue.
Look-- I have run business servers and workstations on Linux, NT4, Windows 2000, and XP. Sure in some environments, Windows offers some benefits, but in many circumstances Linux IS good enough.
In addition, look at the advantage if you are a poorer nation of *shock* paying developers INSIDE your country so that the money you pay actually continues to circulate *in* your local economy. So if you need something additional, you can still pay for it, and that money won't immediately leave the country.
Look, I see what you are saying, but quite frankly, I think you are wrong-- or maybe you are a troll-- or maybe your post is flamebait, but I felt that your points needed a response.
Re:Microsoft in Peru (Score:2, Informative)
World domination (Score:2)
Plus, MS and Open Source are both looking for certain threshhold percentage user levels taht they need to become extremely powerful. If MS has about 90% user base in a market, they can wield monopoly powers, which they've used with great success in the past. The GPL also needs a certain threshhold, to the point where it becomes a major drawback *not* to use the GPL. At that point, more people start joining, which furthers the effect, producing a landslide. And the GPL required threshhold is much, much lower -- I'd estimate that if 10% of the users out there are using GPL software that Microsoft doesn't really have a prayer.
Re:People need to read more Ayn Rand (Score:2)