Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 


Forgot your password?
Close
typodupeerror
×
Technology

Vertical Keyboard vs Carpal Tunnel 256

Posted by CmdrTaco from the ongoing-ergonomic-adventure dept.
An anonymous reader sent us links to a quite strange vertical keyboard which also links to a study that claims that this is more ergonomic than your usual board. Of course at $347 it also better make me coffee.
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Vertical Keyboard vs Carpal Tunnel More

Vertical Keyboard vs Carpal Tunnel

Comments Filter:

  • Article (Score:1, Redundant)

    by addps4cat ( 216499 )
    This revolutionary keyboard is the only one that can place the user in a completely orthopedically neutral position while doing data entry and cannot be adjusted improperly by the user.

    The result? The SafetypeTM is the only keyboard proven in a Major University Study to virtually eliminate the high-stress postures that contribute to Repetitive Stress Injuries, such as Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

    In fact, it makes so much sense that once you see our section on "How it works", you will probably understand more about keyboard ergonomics than most keyboard designers! Take a look right now, and you will see why NASA and the Technology Utilization Foundation chose this design as a promising future technology.

    NEW! Streaming Video

    Note: The Safetype(TM) keyboard is not offered as a cure for any medical condition.

    For general information email info@safetype.com. For specific contact information click here.

    How It Works | University Studies | About Us | Pricing and Ordering | Home Page
    • Yeah, right... which university and how much were they paid? Ow, typing too much == pain == RSI == surgery. =(
      • I didn't know Major University Studies were typically capitalized. Unless it's an important Study, I guess. I didn't catch in the ad which, precisely, university (University?) it was.

        Besides, haven't there been vertical keyboards around for a while?

  • It's not a true keyboard... (Score:5, Funny)

    by FueledByRamen ( 581784 ) <sabretooth@gmail.com> on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:28PM (#3662928)
    ...if you can't spill coffee on the important bits.
  • i'll never know because once i heard that god awful sound i hit back.

  • BS (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Tyler Eaves ( 344284 )
    Quote: The result? The SafetypeTM is the only keyboard proven in a Major University Study to virtually eliminate the high-stress postures that contribute to Repetitive Stress Injuries, such as Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

    My emphasis. This is always a big red flag. If it wasn't Podunk College, Thelma's Corner, AL, it would be named....

    • Re:BS (Score:1)

      by yasth ( 203461 )
      Technically within context it is completely correct. Afterall it doesn;t much good to actually name the university there, because that would imply that annother univerisity might have found annother keyboard to also " virtually eliminate the high-stress postures....Syndrome" Also the use of major prevents them from being sued if some little college did find annother keyboard to be similiarly effective.

      I am more worried by cirtually eliminate that sounds overbroad.
    • ...if you look at the site it says its the university of california at san diego (ucsd).

    • Re:BS (Score:5, Funny)

      by outlier ( 64928 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:51PM (#3663041)
      It was Cornell. Certainly not Podunk College.

      I'm usually a bit wary whenever someone claims that a study (at a named university or not) "proves" anything. The scientific method doesn't prove things, it is used to test to see if things aren't likely.

      Marketing people should be tortured.

  • Man.. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Kizzle ( 555439 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:29PM (#3662935)
    For that much it should read my mind and type for me.

  • Is it really the keyboard? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by kidlinux ( 2550 ) <<duke> <at> <spacebox.net>> on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:30PM (#3662942) Homepage
    Is it really the keyboard that causes carpal tunnel syndrome? I've been going with a regular keyboard since my first computer (~10 years), and I'm just fine.
    Maybe some people are just more prone to carpal tunnel than others. Maybe it's just really bad typing habits (or not, because I think mine are horrible ;).

    • Re:Is it really the keyboard? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Wesley Everest ( 446824 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:42PM (#3663002)
      I've been at a keyboard since 1978, with no thought about ergonomics until the early 90's after I first noticed problems. So, that was about 14 years with no problems. Now I have no choice but to be careful about my setup, take stretch breaks, etc. which generally keeps things ok.
      • I've been at a keyboard since 1978, with no thought about ergonomics until the early 90's after I first noticed problems. So, that was about 14 years with no problems. Now I have no choice but to be careful about my setup, take stretch breaks, etc. which generally keeps things ok

        I've been typing since 1981, so not quite as long. But I've had basically no problems in more than 20 years of reasonably heavy keyboard use. Either I'm lucky or its because I've never learnt to touch type. I still do "advanced hunt and peck" which means my hands and wrists are constantly changing positions and don't come under the same sort of repetative strain as a good touch typist's do.

        Of course this is a sample size of exactly one, so I don't claim it means anything. But have studies been done to examine a possible correlation between touch typing and RSI/CTS?
        • Comment removed based on user account deletion
          • I also do the "advanced hunt and peck", and my wrists never bother me.. maybe touch typing should be banned.. I type faster than everyone I know who does the touch type method.

            Do you type faster or do your hands move faster? Seriously, how many words per minute can you type? I know a lot of very good hunt and peckers and they don't come anywhere near close to any reasonable touch-typist. The difference is of course far greater when typing out written text becuase hunt and peckers have to switch between read and type modes all the time.

            I would agree however that touch typing does increase your susceptibility to RSI purely because you do the same kind of movements all the time, but also because poor posture and seating arrangements affect you more with touch typing (it's much harder to adjust the actions to a keyboard that's to high for example). That's why the first thing you are taught in a good typing class is good posture and to take regular breaks. Unfortunatly, most people are well-trained touch typists.

          • "I also do the "advanced hunt and peck", and my wrists never bother me.. "

            Won't work on my keyboard: I just spraypainted all the keys blue to match my computer.

            Why are we discussing a free energy, err, anti-RSI device anyway? We'll all be getting spammed with adverts for it soon enough. Just get a natural keyboard if you do lots of typing, and good luck getting your work to buy one.
        • I do the same thing. I never learned to truly touch-type mostly because I thought that AP Chem was much more interesting than typing classes. Since then, I've managed to sort of be able to touch-type (except on this blasted lame-ass keyboard at work with the tiny backspace key) at a reasonable speed (admittedly not a speed-demon), and in a way that exercises my arms.

          Ergonomics have their place. I've used a lot of things that weren't particularly comfortable (like this desk), while some other things have been pleasant (like the Aeron chair I have). Howeverm some decidedly non-ergonomic items like my keyboard and even my standard office chair at home can be preferable to some of the annoying "innovations" out there.

          Besides, ergonomic keyboards make it that much more difficult to get to all of my Counter-Strike keys. :)
        • There is speculation about that.... I'm 24yo T-Ter and looking "forward" to an EMG and possible surgery. Me thinks that there's some other predispositions to RSI/CTS/tendonitis/etc. such as diet, (lack of) exercise, stress, hormones, genes, or so on. I don't know of any other students having problems in the CS dept., and there's about 500 people in the dept. Btw, the avg. RSI/CTS age is approx. 40.

          wow, here's a good link [bilbo.com]
      • "Now I have no choice but to be careful about my setup, take stretch breaks, etc. which generally keeps things ok."

        Smoking prevents carpal tunnel syndrome.

        Every hour I take a break and go outside to the smoker's lounge.

        So the real question is, is there a keyboard out there that prevents wheezing cough?
      • This keyboard is easy to pick up and smash a marketing freak's face in with. You have the two handles and the nice flat bottom. Or, maybe you could sandwich a marketing freak's face between the keys while proceeding the bash them with a standard keyboard.
        People who buy this stupid thing should be tortured.
    • but more with posture than the keyboards.

      And it generally takes a long time to develop.

      A lot of people who think they have carpal tunnel syndrom have tendonitis.. and really just need some exercise.

      Lift a few freeweights once or twice a week, it makes a HUGE difference to your typing endurance.
    • Is it really the keyboard that causes carpal tunnel syndrome? I've been going with a regular keyboard since my first computer (~10 years), and I'm just fine.

      Maybe some people are just more prone to carpal tunnel than others. Maybe it's just really bad typing habits (or not, because I think mine are horrible ;).

      I've logged close to 20 years behind keyboards of varying quality (from IBM Model Ms on down to the membrane "keyboards" on Atari 400s) and haven't ever run into any problems. I suspect an "ergo-nazi" would think my home setup is atrocious (a wooden desk that's probably twice as old as I am, with the keyboard in a pull-out pencil tray and the mouse on a pull-out writing board above the drawers, with a couple more computers and their keyboards up on the desk), but it's worked for me since 1985. (Before that, my 99/4A lived on a TV tray. :-) ) I took a typing class in '87 or so, but I think the main thing I got from that was faster typing. I don't think it's made me any more or less susceptible to the injuries that some people claim.

  • I've always had a problem with my wrists and fingers hurting until i switched to the microsoft natural keyboard. Now when i hold my hands verticle and simulate typing it seems that my wrists are stressed much more than they are with the MSFT Natural keyboard. Your palm are always oriented towards earth when resting so wouldn't that be a much better natural position....plus the layout of the board makes using keyboard shortcuts very slow.
    • rgr that, but i still have major RSI problems. i have that kbd, but i think that an adjustable sightly-angled keyboard would be better... im probably going to have to drop $1k on a Data Hand [datahand.com] keyboard. =(

  • So Unique! (Score:5, Funny)

    by CrayzyJ ( 222675 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:31PM (#3662946) Homepage Journal
    "So Unique this was awarded US Patent..."

    They also awarded patents on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and how to exercise a cat. What's your point?

    • They also awarded patents on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and how to exercise a cat. What's your point?

      Hey, hey now! That patent wasn't just for exercising a cat. It was exercising a cat USING A LASER! [uspto.gov] That makes all the difference in the world! ;)

      GMD

      • On the subject of stupid patents, you might want to check outthis [uspto.gov] one. Some guy patented a "Method of swinging on a swing." Crazy stuff!
    • > "So Unique this was awarded US Patent..."
      >
      > They also awarded patents on how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and how to exercise a cat. What's your point?

      LOL!!!!

    • Re:So Unique! (Score:2, Funny)

      by bobtroy ( 544448 )
      "So Unique this was awarded US Patent #5137384" It's true...no other patent has that number. How unique!

  • correct alignment (Score:3, Funny)

    by manifested2 ( 413781 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:32PM (#3662953) Homepage
    I like this, now the palms of your hand are correctly aligned for the various tasks at hand...

  • link (Score:1)

    by hoowee ( 581244 )
    You might take this article with a grain of salt [bbc.co.uk].
    • From the link you mention:

      ...keen computer game players pound on keyboards and joysticks for hours on end, but seem to suffer few injuries as a result. Only when someone else is cracking the whip do workers start to be at risk.

      Perhaps if, instead of paying $350 for a keyboard, the user got a $350 raise?

  • Yes, but will it fit in my keyboard drawer under my desk? No? Hmmm... pass, then. I like my bendy keyboard anyway.
  • I just love that. I wonder which "major university" study sponsored this keyboard...
  • I'm all for ergonomics. It's only natural to use a more comfortable positioning when one can. But this is just WEIRD. Capitalization neccessary. Sure, you could stand on your head and type. It would be different. Not necessarily productive, just weird, no capitalization. $350 for WEIRDness? I'll hire a typist myself.....hmm, minimum wage, that's over sixty hours of them doing my work for me! I'll be happier that way.....or I could double my money by folding it in half and putting it in my pocket. Thank-you-very-much-have-a-nice-day.
  • Ok, the vertical keyb fixes the problem in the wrists etc

    but what about having to keep your arms in the air, without being able to lay them on the desk or so to type (am i the only one that does this?)

    And.. The central keys: When you are typing, do you punch them with your head to use them fastly?;) (watch the video, and think to that ;) )

    Nah, i stick to the old first-designed keyb
    i'm in front of a pc sometimes 24/24 (are we geeks or not), and the worst i had were big headaches because of a too low refresh rate of the monitor (problem solved by now)
    • but what about having to keep your arms in the air, without being able to lay them on the desk or so to type (am i the only one that does this?)


      You and the other people about to suffer for carpal tunnel will do that. Putting pressure on the bottom of your hands or wrists closes the (carpal) tunnel which has your finger tendens moving so furiously inside. This tendon friction coupled with the smaller diameter created by resting your hands is a huge cuase of carpal tunnel. If you want to be typing in 10 years, donn't do this!

    • Your point about having no support for you arms is a good one. That is exactly what I thought when I watched the video. It's true that RSI injuries are important but another equally important problem is fatigue. Most importantly, this may have been a confound in their study because subjects got tired of supporting the weight of their arms and therefore took more breaks.

      Maybe the lesson to be learned here is to take breaks. Similar themes show up all over the place in other posts here.
    • IANA human anatomist, but my guess is that it would not hurt to rest your arms on something when your hands are vertical. When your hands are vertical, it looks like the bottom part of your arm is mostly bone -- no blood vessels, soft tissues, etc.

      I agree about the central keys. It would make more sense to put them on the sides rather than in the middle.

      (BTW, "quickly", not "fastly". There's no such word as "fastly" in English.)

  • Keytronic FlexPro (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    The old Keytronic FlexPro keyboard splits in the middle and can be cranked up to near vertical. I've been using this keyboard on two machines for about four years now (you do need to be a touch typist!) and it has helped with "keyboard elbow" (tendonitis) and some with shoulder/back pains. I don't have much problem with it except for my line-noise style passwords. I bought these from Egghead during their sell-off of bricks-and-mortar locations for $40 each.

  • Vertical? how bout 45 degrees and folding (Score:3, Insightful)

    by billstr78 ( 535271 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:38PM (#3662985) Homepage
    I know that people tend to rest thier rists agains the desk, and this is a major source of carpal tunnel symptoms, but could the job be done with a mere 45 degree angle and maybe a hinge that allowed in to fold (to many degrees)? It seems as though gravity would take it's toll on your shoulders after keeping your hands in a vertical position 3 inches off the desk.
  • What bugs me about this keyboard is that the numeric keypad and the Insert/Delete/Home/etc. keys are in the middle. So when you want to use any of them you have to move your hand out and around or up and over. If they put those keys on the outside, I might consider buying one when the price gets down to, oh, less than you can buy a new (albeit bottom of the line) computer for.

    -Alex
  • ...since it was done before [zzz.com.ru], supposedly by someone at Cornell University.

    There's also the pyramid keyboard [zzz.com.ru] as well. I wonder how they compare...

    • However, the tests carried out in the laboratory revealed that the horizontal keyboard was still better. 83% of testers reported that the traditional keyboard was more comfortable than the vertical one. That's strange, but true. Though the shape of the vertical keyboard is more convenient and really reduces the potential risk of injury, the typing performance drastically decreases.


      I guess this is why it was not patented by Cornell before these shisters picked up on it. For $345, they better throw in a Ronco Food Dehydrator and a George Forman grill.

  • Alternative Keyboard FAQ (Score:5, Informative)

    by Skreech ( 131543 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:43PM (#3663004)

    the Alternative Keyboard FAQ is here [tifaq.com] and has information about other kinds of keyboards.

    also some news articles...

    CU study: Vertical split keyboard lowers the injury risk for typists [cornell.edu]
    Vertical Keyboard: the "Touch Easy." [benjaminrossen.com]

  • Serously, I love my IBM 370 and my fingers would have to fall off in order for me to switch to anything else. The IBM 370 was the origional awsome keyboard and its still the best IMHO. You just can't beat that tactile response and clickity-click noise. Heck you could beat somebody over the head with this thing and there skull would break before the keyboard did. And any keyboard that can be used to beat somebody to death without harming said keyboard gets an A+ in my book. Besides who in there right mind would spend $347 on a freaking keyboard. I might as well buy a new processor or graphics card instead.
    • Heck you could beat somebody over the head with this thing and there skull would break before the keyboard did.

      I certainly hope that claim is backed up by a study from a Major University!
      • It most certainly is my good man! The school of lets beat my little brother over the head with my keyboard. :)

        But seriously though, these things are made of machined steel. People have driven large trucks over them and they still work afterwards. It cracks the plastic casing but they still work fine.

    • After destroying several cheap plastic keyboards in succession, I got myself an IBM Model M [3m3718.com], the original "clicky" keyboard. It uses buckling springs and capacitance switches, it's built like a tank, lasts forever, and its diswasher safe.

      There is no other keyboard out there with the sweet tactile response of a Model M. They can be had for 15-20 bucks + shipping on E-Bay. One of the sellers offers them used, but protected with the old "keyboard condom" dust covers - get one of those, clean it up with some isopropyl and WD-40, and you'll have a keyboard that is in mint condition.

  • At $347 a piece, it also includes a 14.4 modem and a thtppd web server. If you are an indian goddess [govst.edu] you may run a beowulf cluster of these.

  • Major University != Cornell? (Score:5, Informative)

    by dbmartin00 ( 226655 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:47PM (#3663024)
    I can't seem to load it, but the "major university" seems like it may be Cornell... the link I can't load is labelled cornell.html anyway.

    It must be this study [cornell.edu]

  • Misleading Title (Score:2, Informative)

    by b1ng0 ( 7449 )
    I don't know why they are playing this out to be some type of miracle keyboard when in fact each of their pages clearly states:

    Note: The Safetype(TM) keyboard is not offered as a cure for any medical condition.

    I know I won't be using their keyboard any time soon.
    • There is _no_ cure for carpal tunnel outside of surgery. Any type of keyboard that effectivly reduces the risk to *developing* carpal tunnel is something to note.


      As a side, this keyboard still sux and it is not work 10% of what they are asking for it

  • How to make a horizontal ergonomic keyboard (Score:5, Funny)

    by Cardhore ( 216574 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @07:48PM (#3663029) Homepage Journal
    Remove the following keys:

    Windows

    Windows (on the other side)

    Thing Next To Windows with the Arrow and menu thing(same side as above)

    PrtScn

    ScrLk

    Pause

    Home

    End

    Delete

    Page Up

    Page Down

    Insert

    UP arrow (But what about games??? you cry. Ever heard of WASD?)

    DOWN arrow

    LEFT arrow

    RIGHT arrow

    The whole friggin numeric keypad (this allows space for your mouse so you arm is not bent all over the side of your desk)

    Finally, switch escape with caps lock (for all you friendly vi users), and optionally remove the function keys. Surprise! You now have a typewriter with shift, control, and alt. That's all ya need folks!The best part is...you can still use emacs! If you really need a numeric keyboard, you should be able to buy it separately.
    • Whoops, forgot to mention reason for all this: computer programs shouldn't rely on having all those unnecessary keys when you have three modifiers (ctrl, alt, shift) and 55 keys within immediate reach. Moving your hands back and forth to the function keys, arrow keys, number pad, home/end block puts unnecessary strain on your wrists and hands. Old macs, Games, Emacs and vi just further show that you can navigate properly without arrow buttons.
    • Exactly. You are describing the brilliant Happy Hacker Keyboards! [pfuca.com]

      Not only do they remove the extra BS keys, but they also swapped Control & Caps Lock, for those of us using Sun systems, or those who just prefer that type of setup. It really is a great keyboard!
      • Small correction: The name is `Happy Hacking Keyboard'.

        (n.b. I'm pretty sure the name `Happy Hacking' was inspired by RMS -- it's one of his typical parting phrases, and the manufacturer gave him a free keyboard...)

        The newest H.H. keyboard model includes -- gasp! -- arrow keys, which add .4 inch to the size (though they're pretty minimal, kind of like the small arrow keys you often find on laptops)! Completely unnecessary, IMO; I'm very happy using the FN-key on my H.H. to get arrow keys and home/end/&c when I need them.

    • too bad you can't log on to NT to use it. (no delete)
  • So, by their defintion of Pronation [safetype.com], we should never ever turn our palms downward, because this causes problems. I'm sorry, but I think if that was half as harmful as they made it out to be, then humans wouldn't have the capacity to do it, or else problems would be more widespread.

    I tried achieving the position they show for the pronation display, and i had to put my elbows on the table touching each other before i could get my hands to rotate like that. granded that might be harmful, but the fact that the other two joints in your arm rotate a bit makes it like their points are rather contrived.

    Deviation [safetype.com] might be a more legitimate concern, but looking at my own wrists it still seems as if they are exaggerating purposefully
  • After looking at the keyboard, I was surprised to see that you had to actually hold your wrist above the desk (without a rest) in order to type. IMHO, that would be VERY uncomfortable after while.

    Perhaps thats the point though... it gets so annoying after awhile that you get up and walk away in disgust, thus taking the recommended "break" that you'd otherwise have ignored.
  • Valid question. Like I'm going to get carpel tunnel from data entry....

  • Simple engineering (Score:4, Interesting)

    by datastew ( 529152 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @08:01PM (#3663078)

    Actually "the turning your wrists sideways to type" thing kind of makes sense in an engineering point of view.

    Thinking way back to my statics class, the stress at any point in the beam is inversely proportional to the moment of inertia. Modeling your wrist as a rectangular beam 1" x 2", the moment of inertia is given by the formula
    ( b * h ^3 ) / 12
    So turning your wrist sideways changes the moment of inertia from .1667 inches ^ 4 to .6667 inches ^ 4. With a corresponding decrease in the stress on your wrists.

    However the actual stress savings will be less for the following reasons:

    1. If your wrists are anything like mine, they are closer to being ellipses than rectangles, and concentrating more mass at the centers means that the turning sideways trick will make a smaller change in the moment of inertia. Also, measuring my wrists more closely, it looks like the values are 1.75" and 2.75". I just didn't want to dig out my calculator.

    2. Whichever way you turn your wrists, they still have to handle the forces generated each time you push against a key. Think about "equal and opposite reaction" from one of Newton's laws.

  • Why, oh God, why must companies insist on putting $#%@#$%@#$% annoying sounds on their web pages?
  • I'm willing to believe that this keyboard is cool, but the fact is, there is no such thing as the perfect keyboard. Any kind of repetitive motion will cause some muscles to grow and others to atrophy. The result is that you are going to have to exercise those atrophied muscles no matter what keyboard you choose.

  • Other alternatives (Score:5, Informative)

    by SeanAhern ( 25764 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @08:09PM (#3663099) Journal
    If you watch their little video [safetype.com], they talk about some positions that normal keyboards force your hands to be in. It's those positions that cause all of the problems that are associated with typing. Their keyboard purports to remove the problems by putting your hands in a more natural and neutral position.

    A little over a year ago, slashdot posted an article [slashdot.org] about the Evolution Keyboard [kinesis-ergo.com], now by Kinesis [kinesis-ergo.com]. I have had one of those for several years, and would recommend that anyone interested in the SafeType keyboard also check out the Evolution keyboard. (You can the review I posted to slashdot here [slashdot.org].)

    The SafeType keyboard is fixed in position, and they consider that to be one of its major features. While I can see that preventing users from futzing with the keyboard keeps them from moving it to a position where it can hurt them, I happen to really like the ability of the Evolution keyboard to move to whatever position I like. In fact, I can make it go completely vertical if I want, gaining all the advantages of the SafeType keyboard. I can even drop it to the sides of my chair, removing even one more "unnatural" position of my arms.

    To me, having lots of choices in how I configure my work space is a good thing. And having a keyboard that fits this mindset is one of the most important parts.
  • All the employees at the company are going ape shit right now calling friends and telling them to buy stock in the company because their website is so busy ;)

  • Try this:

    Relax and stand up; arms down, totally relaxed.

    What way do you're hands fall? Palms toward legs... This is the CENTER of the range of movement of you're hand and requires no physical strain to hold this position...

    Not being able to put you're elbows down kind of sucks tho...

  • carpal tunnel... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by gotih ( 167327 )
    not this again -- it's been a year or so but a 'this funky keyboard will cure carpal tunnel' article always come up eventually.

    Basically, ONE keyboard will never solve your carpal tunnel problems. carpal tunnel is a result of continous stress on specific parts of the wrist. and it is still not completely understood how to prevent it. i found that my moderate to severe wrist pain ceased when i started alternating keyboards. i use two: a regular keyboard and a Kinesis classic [kinesis-ergo.com]. by using these very different keyboards i work different muscles and distribute the stress throughout my hands which (in theory) prevents most harm from occuring.

    Kinesis keyboards are sort of expensive but it is by far my favorite keyboard. took about a week to get used to (hint: be lazy, don't reach so far for keys). i got my boss to buy it ($275) for me after some mild whining.
  • "Of course at $347 it also better make me coffee."

    And mow my lawn, cuddle with my girlfriend after sex, make breakfast, and walk my dog!
  • i saw the picture,

    and i had to check the date;

    it's not april fools already is it?
  • From the website:
    "So unique it was awarded U.S. Patent #5137384"

    As we all know, ideas must be completely unique in order to have the rare honor of being approved by the extremely stringent U.S. Patent office. :-)
  • ... the mirrors on either side? Even if you needed to look at the keys (which you shouldn't because its pitched at touch typists) the small mirrors would reverse your view.

    The video also goes to great lengths to explain why the angles our hands go on with a conventional keyboard are bad, but replaces this with a design which involves having your hands in the air constantly. WTF? Try using this for an full day.

  • I can't keep my arms extended like that for more than 5 minutes without getting extreamly tired. It's called gravity and it makes this product suck. Maybe Astronauts can use it.

  • Ergonomics is mostly junk science ... (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    ... that truly benefits the injury lawyers and ergo-consultants. How can these guys state in one breath that working while remaining fixed in one position promotes injury ... then turn around and recommend fixed positions to prevent injuries (eg. 90 degree angle at elbows, straight wrists with "floating" forearms, 20 inches from monitor at eye level, fixed keyboard angle, etc.)?

    The best way to prevent repeated motion injuries is to vary the motion by forcing the person to change tasks regularly ... not by doing quick stretch-routines. I haven't seen any evidence that one can prevent repeated motion injuries by performing 5-minute "stretching exercises". How is a 5-minute stretch going to prevent damage caused by 8 hours of fixed positions or repeated motion?

    All of the ergo-consultants I've seen ... they travel around the country at some other company's expense ... they're always smiling ... they're not held accountable if they're recommendations cause more pain or injuries ... and they all have nice tans. Why is ergonomic equipment so expensive? A footrest for $50 ?!? Snake oil, I say.


  • They still have it wrong... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by johnlcallaway ( 165670 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:16PM (#3663310)
    I'm 5'9" (1.7 m) and 225lbs (100Kg). I've also been touch typing for about 25 years. Now....everyone play along with this and find out where your neutral position is. I'll bet it's probably not the same as mine.

    First off, let's assume that the vertical position of your hands is actually better.

    Place your hands like the one's in the picture of the Safetype keyboard. Now, when I do this, I feel a pressure in my sholders suggesting that my hands should be closer together ... my arms more like a V than parallel. I measured it, and the most comfortable position is my fingertips about 4 inches (10cm) apart.

    Now, look at your hands and wiggle your fingers as if you were typing. When I do this, my fingers are curled and move towards and away from me, not on the side like the Safetype keyboard. Except for my thumb, it moves up and down. Even neater.

    So, my 10 minute research suggests that they take their keyboard and rotate it away from the body, and allow the user to control the distance between the two halves. Also, move the space bar, and maybe a few other keys like caps and esc to the top for the thumbs. THAT would be more ergonomic than the contraption they have.

    The only drawback I can see, and the Safetype keyboard would have the same problem, is that my hands rest on the outside edges. I would guess that this would be very irritating after awhile.

    Can I have my government grant now????
  • Of course at $347 it also better make me coffee.

    For $347, it better make me crack.

  • Letters are lined up unsymetrically. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by eugene ts wong ( 231154 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @09:39PM (#3663375) Homepage Journal
    When people put their hands to the keyboard, they'll find that their fingers are like mirror opposites. Yet the keys line up in one direction. To see what I mean, look at r f v and u j m. f and j are up above v and m, and to the left. I believe that f and j should be up and to the centre. When your hands are on the keyboard, the fingers will naturally reach up to the centre.

    This won't help everybody, because many people are happy with their keyboards, but it will help some people. I'm sure that my idea won't hurt anybody. That's for sure.

  • Better yet... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Nindalf ( 526257 ) on Friday June 07, 2002 @10:26PM (#3663498)
    Have your keyboard in the natural ass-scratching position [thecraftstudio.com].

    (and make one for under $20)
  • Looks pretty comfortable for the wrists, but I bet holding your hands up in the air like that would shift the problems up to your shoulders and back. You would need like a 3-inch tall wrist rest in front of it, which would have to be nicely padded because you would be leaning on the bones rather than the undersides... Think I'll hold off on this one (even if it is unique enough to get a patent).
  • Is a moderate mechanical response; a gentle but reassuring clackety-clack when I press the keys.

    That's something we haven't had since when, the XT keyboards? All this membrane bollocks is so impersonal.

    I don't need new layouts, I need a back to basics keyboard...

Slashdot Top Deals

Our business in life is not to succeed but to continue to fail in high spirits. -- Robert Louis Stevenson

Close