Hitachi Demos Water-Cooled Notebooks 218
Sprocket writes: "Water-cooled processors, currently the domain of supercomputers, high-end servers, and garage hobbyists, may be about to enter the mainstream.
Hitachi has developed a prototype notebook PC that uses a water-based solution to cool down its Pentium 4 processor and is planning to commercialize the product for corporate users in the third quarter of this year... read more"
No Athlon 4 version? (Score:1)
Doh!
Re:No Athlon 4 version? (Score:2, Funny)
a funny joke (Score:1, Funny)
Re:a funny joke (Score:1)
if stuck in the desert without water, remove processor from notebook and drink water!
Re:a funny joke (Score:3, Funny)
Re:a funny joke (Score:1)
What the hell .. (Score:1)
Water-cooled (Score:1)
Re:Water-cooled (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Water-cooled (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Water-cooled (Score:2)
Of all the responses here, yours is the most correct. The first generation of Japanese-manufactured Dreamcast (made for the Japanese and U.S. markets) was cooled by a heat pipe and slow (quiet) metal fan. These models were considerably heavier than the later/non-Japanese-made models because of the weight of the heat pipe and fan. They also had more heat problems than later models, because they originally used an older, hotter-running rev of the Hitachi SH4.
To complement the cooler SH4s, later models used light heat sinks and faster-spinning (louder) plastic fans. The drives were also different, causing minor differences in noise, compatibility, and reliability (none of which contributed to any cooling issues).
In any case, you are right in that the "water cooling" done by the heatpipe was much more passive than Hitachi's method. It was so passive (and largely ineffective) that it was designed to augment the cooling effects of the fan, not replace the fan entirely.
< tofuhead >
Re:Water-cooled (Score:1)
The Hitachi just has a heat pipe like most laptops (Score:2)
"Heatpipes" [psc-cp.com] are nothing new.
Although heatpipes are mainly utilised where things are cramped arround the heatsource, to move the heat to another spot where there's more room for a heatsink (hence its popularity in laptops, where they move the heat from the CPU to behind the screen, where there's room for a wide albit flat heatsink), there are a couple of Socket 7/370/A heatsinks that utilise the heatpipe effect. The "Zen Radiator" [overclockers.com.au], which uses the heatpipe as the core of a radiator like arrangement; & the "Coolermaster HHC-001 Heatpipe Copper Cooler" [plycon.com], which has long (as in high) fins & uses heatpipes to help conduct heat to the top of the fins.
All this article shows is that PC World employs a laptop reviewer who doesn't know what he's talking about in regards to laptops.
Really if a tech mag is going to have someone write a blurb about laptop cooling they should employ someone who actually knows something about laptop cooling.
Re:Water-cooled (Score:2, Insightful)
Negative.
Here's a picture of a first generation DC's guts:
http://www.mindspring.com/~refridgerator/dc5.jp
Note the heatsink and fan combo on the top-left of the image.
Victor
Re:Water-cooled (Score:1)
There are a few places you can't use it (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:There are a few places you can't use it (Score:1)
Re:There are a few places you can't use it (Score:2)
Take off.... climb for twenty minutes then "paff! SHIT!" from business class.
Larf larf larf.
Dave
Re:There are a few places you can't -- Not quite (Score:2)
By the way, if anyone ever needs some very warm, durable boots - check out an army surplus store. The only commercial boots that even come close are in the $300 range and aren't as durable. The military has some damn nice equipment...
Re:There are a few places you can't use it (Score:1)
Re:There are a few places you can't use it (Score:2)
Re:There are a few places you can't use it (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:There are a few places you can't use it (Score:1)
Re:There are a few places you can't use it (Score:1)
Moz
Re:There are a few places you can't use it (Score:2)
No worry (Score:1)
I have a water cooled notebook (Score:1)
What, you want it to work or something?
Help keep your coffee warm... (Score:1)
Re:Help keep your coffee warm... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:how quickly we forget (Score:1)
Boring. (Score:3, Funny)
Now what I want is an Ice-Cream-Cooled Laptop. Like an electronic Klondike bar. Mmmm...
Quiet ?= Good (Score:1)
Someday far in the future, I'll be up very late in my office, listening to the silence, and thinking "Man it sure was alot less lonely when we had those fans going."
Re:Quiet ?= Good (Score:5, Funny)
Record your current fan noise, so you can play it back on the internal speaker of your future computer if it's too quiet.
Not just for overclockers anymore (Score:5, Informative)
Personally, I'll buy it when it's packaged and done for me, and not until then.
wait a sec... (Score:2)
Coffee (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Coffee (Score:5, Funny)
Don't forget that you need to start brewing a new cup every 15 minutes to maintain the heat flow. If you drink one cup of coffee every 15 minutes for the whole work day, you'll be overclocked too!
Overclock it! (Score:2)
Kits already available (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Kits already available (Score:1, Redundant)
And Toshiba already has a watercooled notebook (Score:2)
Why not better than water cooling? (Score:2, Interesting)
People expect reliability out of their performance laptops, afterall.
Re:Why not better than water cooling? (Score:1, Insightful)
doesn't conduct electricity . . . check
isn't caustic . . . check
isn't extremely sticky when dried . . . D'oh!
~~~
Whats the point? (Score:1)
water cooled cpu (Score:1, Redundant)
Logical choice (Score:5, Insightful)
It is the logical choice for cooling, being less noisy, parts have to move slower, etc etc... But why does the article say this is for garage hobbyists? Water cooling has been around for a while and at least 5 relatively large cies offer it. Tomshardware and Anandtech have had quite a few reviews of the different brands.
Another plus is you can plug everything on the same circuit, Northbridge, CPU, GPU, hell, even the power supply. All you have to do is increase the pipe size by a relatively small factor.
The temperature is maintained around ambient too, so the cooling is MUCH more efficient than air.
The next step is nanocooling. There was an article in Nature a way back about nanofans (more like oscillating piezoelectric thingys), that dissipate heat at an astounding rate (although I don't recall how exactly since they throw it at the air which doesn't have such a good calorific capacity...). Anyways, the point is that this isn't really revolutionary because it has been used in home computers (by more than garage hobbyists) for at least 3 years. And before that there was Kryotech...
Re:Logical choice (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Logical choice (Score:2, Interesting)
I wouldn't think that. Water has a higher specific heat and much higher thermal conductivity. Water is not "reactive", plus when you spill water, it evaporates.
-Kevin
Not Ideal For Laptops (Score:1)
Look if I have to lug around a water tank and pump then what's the use of having a laptop.
Yea right. (Score:1)
I does not add up.
hate to say it, been there, done that (Score:1)
http://www.infoworld.com/articles/pi/xml/00/04/
As one who has done considerable research into watercooled stuff, the cooling gains are pretty good as compared to air cooling. This is multilied by the fact that the active cooling system on a notebook is limited to a tiny 60MM fan, and a heatsink that is about a half inch high. If you can keep the system closed, it won't be too bad, however this will add considerable weight to the unit, taking into account the resevoir, pump, waterblock, stuff like that.
Water tanks? Nah... (Score:1)
Kaos
Re:Water tanks? Nah... *Ethanol* fuelcells (Score:2)
Re:Water tanks? Nah... (Score:2)
This is not new, by any means (Score:2, Informative)
Re:This is not new, by any means (Score:2)
Um...bad idea. (Score:5, Funny)
This already exists. (Score:5, Informative)
Toshiba [infoworld.com]
IBM [ibm.com]
I know there are others, but I can't seem to find them at the moment. It's certainly my underestanding that there have been water cooled laptops in production for quite a while.
Re:This already exists. (Score:2)
That was in Byte/UK in 1993
IBM's solution goes beyond just water cooling (Score:3, Interesting)
Heat pipes are an old idea - they were used in the Apollo program. IBM's key addition to the technology is developing a hinge that efficiently transfers heat between the laptop's body (the heat source) and the display (the heat radiator). There isn't much info in the article referenced in the original post to figure out just what Hitachi thinks is original.
Re:This already exists. (Score:2)
Water is not actually conductive. Water with disolved solids, noteably salt, is quite conductive. It doesn't have to be cloudy or "salty" to be salty enough to be pretty conductive.
-Peter
Re:This already exists. (Score:3, Informative)
Thermal conductivity doesn't matter all that much for a water cooling systems, though, because the primary heat transfer mechanism is convection. You need a tiny little bit of conduction to heat up a tiny bit of water, and then convection carries that water elsewhere to a radiator which dissipates the heat.
water cooling crays (Score:1)
Intel: take a Marketing class (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Intel: take a Marketing class (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Intel: take a Marketing class (Score:2, Informative)
sadly, they do not sell to the public.
Re:Intel: take a Marketing class (Score:2)
Hey! There's an idea! (Score:2)
We could then start adding turbines to reclaim some of the energy lost as heat from the unit, and use that to help prolong the time between charges on the unit! Just think! The more hard number crunching you do, the hotter the processor gets, and the longer your laptop runs! It'd be a reason for EVERYONE to run seti@home!
A notebook computer that MAKES COFFEE TOO? (Score:3, Funny)
Sig: What Happened To The Censorware Project (censorware.org) [sethf.com]
Unveiled where? (Score:1)
Generally wen you "unveil" somthing you show it off to people.
So were the hell are the press photos?
Re:Unveiled where? (Score:5, Interesting)
By the way, the revolutionary part about this laptop is that it uses a mechanical pump to move the hot coolant to the radiation panel at the back of the LCD, whereas traditional cooling mechanisms uses the palmrest and/or the bottom of the laptop to dissipate heat in addition to the air fan. The idea is that
Also, before people start screaming about how big the water tanks are in the photos, the article says that the tanks were deliberately enlarged to emphasize the point of these prototypes, and they will be reduced in production models.
Gotta love integration... (Score:1)
Proper computing for the athletic geek!
Won't work -- tried it (Score:4, Funny)
Wow. Talk about Vaporware...yikes...
Overclocking. (Score:1)
maybe strap a larger radiator on the back of the screen and your ready to go.
yay (Score:1)
Is this new? (Score:2)
Hmm (Score:1)
Unreliable (Score:1)
All those jokes about leaky laptops may not be so far off the mark...
just what i need, a $3000 portable coffee warmer (Score:5, Interesting)
The ideal notebook... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why they insist on forcing desktop replacements on the market is beyond me. (Actually, it isn't beyond me, it's all about keeping those profit margins high.)
As a writer, dealing with these noisy, overheating, overpriced, heavy machines is distasteful. As a programmer, I'm gonna use my laptop as a terminal, not a server, so all those extra CPU cycles are wasted.
Soooo..... (Score:3, Insightful)
Word, Office, bash, sips at the battery, and comes with a fairly hefty 55W battery too. It runs, what, at a rated 6hours on a single battery? I suspect it runs lower, of course, but still, 4.5 hours isn't horrible.
Re:Soooo..... (Score:2)
What we need is something like the previous poster said, though...screw fast processors...a laptop's advantage is that it's portable...most people want a laptop for word processing and e-mail...How many CPU cycles do you really need for that?
Re:Soooo..... (Score:2)
Even better, if you have enough ram, the system will put the drive to sleep too. It really isn't all that far off from the original poster's wish.
My laptop, when I'm just listening to music (screen off, only an mp3 player on) can play for about 6 hours. This is an mp3 player that sucks 20% of the CPU, too. Anyway, the Mac laptops are some of the most portable laptops around
Re:Soooo..... (Score:2)
Re:The ideal notebook... (Score:2)
Sure, but only if you don't need a display for word prosessing. It's not like there's a tech available to make cheap enough displays that can be run for weeks with small battery only. And you have seen GBA - we need display that generates light.
Re:The ideal notebook... (Score:2)
Oh dear, It would seem that my Palm is a figment of my imagination.
Michael
Re:The ideal notebook... (Score:2)
Re:just what i need, a $3000 portable coffee warme (Score:2, Interesting)
(I figure if they can make a P4 run four hours, the P1 should be good for at least four times longer!)
hmm, embarassing situations ? (Score:3, Funny)
No, honestly, my laptop just leaked...
What!? (Score:2, Redundant)
Maybe I'm being silly, but is this really neccessary? I'm sure it will sell. I work in Government, particularly law enforcement, and the purchasing decisions are made totally backwards. Recently, all of the agents (cops) in our department got new laptops. It was considered important that they be able to transport these things so that they can be more flexible or dynamic or something... Anyway, the guy in charge of ordering bought the Dell "desktop replacement" laptop, which weighs about 8 pounds! The result? We have a bunch of overpriced desktops with LCD displays and laptop keyboards. The agents never take them ANYWHERE.
To get back on topic, I can see how this is going to be a "It's more expensive, so it must be better," or, a, "Finally, I can get the computing power that I need in a laptop!" I've had a Pentium III 850 for almost a year now and I just can't see how that isn't going to be sufficient processing power to drive my applications for a long time. Up until a few weeks ago I was using a PII 300 at work, and it was great with Windows 2000 and office XP.
The gist of my comment: In 90% (or more) of the instances customers who buy these machines will not need the processing power that is provided by the advanced cooling. My problem is when it's public sector buyers that are misinformed and willing to spend public dollars on gimmicky stuff.
Wait, never mind, maybe you do need that Pentium 4 to do email...sorry!
Repairs.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Personally, I'd have engineered the water tank to the bottom of the unit or as another drive bay. Gravity would force the water from a broken unit outside the laptop.
How is this a good idea? (Score:3, Interesting)
Why would they want to do this? (Score:2)
So... they don't make any extra profit (probably less for an identical retail price), there's no extended battery life (so how is this "more efficient"?), and the only benefit is that it (apparently) lives longer than an air cooled system, a fairly intangible benefit even for a corporate purchaser, given that by the time the air cooling system is likekly to give out, the laptop will have moved so far down the corporate food chain that it will probably have long since been "recycled" by a sticky fingered employee.
Some problems with this.
Technology for technology's sake? This is a demo unit, and is smells to me like some R&D czar trying to garner some media interest in a dying project. It's nice technology, but it seems largely pointless.
Leaks... (Score:3, Funny)
1) And you thought MEMORY leaks killed programs...
and
2) Going into that super important customer meeting after the water coolant just let go leaving a huge wet spot on the front of your pants: "No, really, it was my laptop!"
Corporate users (Score:2)
yikes (Score:2, Funny)
Signs of Nearing Technology Limit (Score:2)
Water cooled notebooks.
I recently heard a presentation which indicated just how difficult the situation is getting with respect to power density. IIRC, in terms of W/cm, todays chips are surpassing the output of hotplates, moving towards the realm of nuclear reactors.
I'd heard the switch from bi-polar to CMOS in the 1990s helped to avert a similar imminent meltdown.
At these extremes, there have to be some research efforts into finding some way out of this mess.
But maybe there's little need for laptop computers to have a faster CPU. What are you going to do with it, type your email faster? Once you can show videos in Powerpoint, why is there any more need for speed in these things?
Why not just underclock (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:P4 Sucks. (Score:1)
And yes, the car is a valid example. Think Energy_of_System(point a) = Energy_of_System(point b) and for some reason those silly engineers could not reduce the amount of heat lost in the system due to combustion and friction...
Re:If it breaks... (Score:2)
No, you'll just mknod -p and use some |-fu.