Nokia Set-top Boxes to Ship with AmigaDE 171
AtlasT writes: "Amiga Inc. announced today that Nokia will be shipping their Linux-powered "Mediaterminal" STBs with AmigaDE pre-installed. These news along with the previously announced cooperation with Sharp for their Zaurus PDA make the future of Amiga Inc. look a bit brighter indeed. What we who use computers more often than PDAs and STBs wonder is when we'll see the release of AmigaOS 4 and new machines. If you'd like to have a pre-view of AmigaDE and some applications you can buy the AmigaDE Player for Linux or Windows. I wouldn't mind running games like Payback, a GTA2 clone, on a PDA!" The Nokia Media Terminal was supposed to be launched in the second quarter of 2001, then by the end of 2001, now... who knows. Update: 02/23 21:24 GMT by M : It seems the Mediaterminal is already available but expensive.
Re:but will it run (Score:1, Funny)
Moderators, look here [blazemonger.com].
Re:A bunch of really dumb questions (Score:4, Informative)
It is related in name only. the current owners bought the name from Gateway 2 or 3 years ago, promised the Earth to existing Amiga users, and then proceeded to do stuff all except rebadge and try to resell TAO's software.
Oh, and put out lots of announcements of annoncements.
Oh, and tell us how wonderful it is working with Corel (nothing happened), how the Sharp Zaurus (sp?) was shipping with AmigaDE (it doesn't), and how AmigaInc was helping Matroxto design the new Matrox gfx chips (they aren't).
Despite their best efforts to kill off AmigaOS, though, third parties are stilldeveloping it thankfully. However, AmigaInc has nothing to do with thateffort (other than getting huge royalties on the name when AmigaOS4 finally gets released, if ever).
Re:A bunch of really dumb questions (Score:1)
Oh really? That'll be why it has been shipping to developers (and anyone can get one - just tell them you are as developer and they'll happily sell you one) for months, right? Of course, despite AmigaInc's big press releases making claims to the contrary, Zaurus, even in developer form, does NOT have any part of AmigaDE. (It would need the DE in order to run the so-called "content" AInc claimed it was developing and supplying to Sharp for shipment with the Zaurus).
similarly, the rest of your "facts" are equally flawed, oh anonymous eejit.
This ain't your old Amiga. ;-( (Score:3, Interesting)
If your more into the Amiga OS, I suggest you take a look at Amithlon, AROS, AmigaXL or MorphOS.
Now if your really into a OS developed by a game porting company (that as the official Amiga badge), your in luck. HyperOS4 should be out this year.
Dammy, awaiting the Faithful Follower's of The Name Cult to come out flaming me. Who needs Scientologist, we have Amiga Inc!
Re:This ain't your old Amiga. ;-( (Score:1)
If I were you, I would be hoping that either Amithlon, AmigaXL, AROS or MorphOS can pull something off that will lead to a stable and positive developemental future.
Dammy
Re:This ain't your old Amiga. ;-( (Score:1)
> you and Matt saying that Hyperion don't know what > the hell they're doing. Should that make me
> worried?
No, Matt has gone into a fairly decent length of posting on how piss poor Hyperion is handling HyperOS4. I mearly yield to his knowledge on this matter.
> I think Hyperion are quite capable of producing
> an OS. I seriously doubt they'll do it in the
> presented time frame, but they're still
> producers , not the sole developers of AmigaOS
> 4. Just like a movie producer doesn't do the
> directing, acting and shooting in the production > of a movie, Hyperion have hired other developers > in addition to their own.
However, Hyperion is not know for it's OS work, nor have they done anything remotely like this before. It would like handing the Studio's makeup artist the role of Producer and Director of a major film.
>What would Amithlon and AmigaXL "pull off" BTW?
> They're emulators running current 68k AmigaOS.
I'm not sure about AmigaXL, but Amithlon can be (guess it was designed as) a developement platform. Much like how Mac did their OS-X. And it's x86 friendly already so cheap hardware can be used.
> As for stable and positive developmental future > I'd say AmigaOS and AROS are the best bets.
> Amiga OS has a company funded by VCs and OEM
> deals (DE) backing it up, and AROS is open
> sourced.
We will have to dissagree then. Amiga isn't putting a penny into HyperOS4 and Hyperion is taking all the financial risks with no financial help from Amiga. Amiga is set to make money, if HyperOS4 doesn't bomb. That's a pretty nice little deal for Amiga, isn't? They don't put a single penny into this and they can sit back and rake in the royalities.
Dammy
Re:A bunch of really dumb questions (Score:2, Informative)
Company after company have bought the "Amiga" trademark and used it as a cheap way to garner publicity for their vapourware products. Perhaps this company actually has some real software behind it but it has absolutely zero to do with the original Amiga.
Re:A bunch of really dumb questions (Score:2, Insightful)
What you said is only true for abnormally high values of "zero".
Re:A bunch of really dumb questions (Score:2)
NOTHING
Re:A bunch of really dumb questions (Score:1)
However, you were talking about what Amiga Inc. had to do with "the original Amiga".
Too expensive (Score:5, Insightful)
Having worked on a set-top box project, the prime goal seems to be cost-reduction on a per-unit basis. Various developments are in the pipeline which will enable PVR/MPEG/DVD/DVB boxes to be made at a cost point where cable and sat providers can afford to subsidise them to a zero cost. This is where the market lies for these things, and the first company to succesfully bring such a box to market will be the one who wins the big share of that market.
We've been hearing about STBs for a long time. Projects like these, with or without Amiga software, are the reason we hear a lot and see nothing.
Amiga have been claiming to have deals with STB manufacturers for a long time now. Aside from press releases and cryptic mails from Fleecy Moss, I've never seen anything solid come from any of these.
Re:Too expensive (Score:1)
This is true but... Looked at the bank balances of these companies recently? Most of them have horrendous debt already. Very few are looking at profit anytime soon. This close to the dot.bomb fiasco it is rather hard to get more investment.
The future is retail again. Good. We have more chance of getting products with consumer features rather than just features designed to suck cash from your wallet to the cable/sat operators.
Re:Too expensive (Score:2)
Also, the US isn't the only market here. Europe's cable providers mostly aren't in much better shape, but the satellite business mostly still has money...
Further, there's opportunities not too far down the road for FTA (Free To Air) STBs, since several governments are keen on the idea of moving over completely to digital, thereby freeing the juicy analog frequencies for sale to wireless ops.
Re:Cost (Score:1)
How Cool Does it Look.... (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not sure exactly where its supposed to fit into the market though... it seems to be a jazzed up WebTV, RePlay and Cable TV box, all in one. But if people already own one or two of those allready why would they buy this?
Although saying that I do like the fact that its Linux Based and it does look nicer than your average Set-Top Box (but the fact that you can't put the TV *on* the box may be a minus) I would almost buy one, but I don't want internet on my TV and I've got a Cable box already with Interactive TV.
Very nice... but I don't think its going to sell that well
Do you believe? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Do you believe? (Score:1)
Re:Do you believe? (Score:3)
Amiga Inc. is the first time since the Commodore bankruptcy that Amiga has been self owned and run with some sort of direction.
Escom AG only wanted the Amiga brand name. Gateway the same. And QuickPak (who never actually got their hands on the name anyway) had their own uses for Commodore's Intellectual Property as well.
What it boils down to is that all of the previous "Buyers" of the Amiga name didn't actually aim to do anything with the company other than exploit the Amiga community.
Amiga Inc. have a vested interest in the ressurection of the Amiga. Amiga Inc. IS the Amiga.
Re:Do you believe? (Score:2)
Amiga Inc. is the last and best chance for Amiga to become something real again. But I'm not even sure that's enough.
As for your reference to the Jargon File entry, I've never run up on that one but it doesn't surprise me much. It's easy to poke fun at machine loyalists when they're using a machine that might just have advantages over what you have (or what you had back then) but you don't want to admit it even if years later.
I for one don't know any Amiga users who felt it was an industry wide conspiracy, however. In fact, I think every real Amiga fan knows that the true culprits were the Commodore Executives, who in one year alone granted themselves a raise higher than the total yearly profits from the previous few years (back when they were ACTUALLY turning profits). Anybody who truely knows anything about Amiga's history knows it wasn't Microsoft or Apple that Commodore had to fear. It was their own fuckwit of a CEO.
So, the Amiga Persecution Complex to which you refer, humorous though it may be, is hardly accurate.
Re:Do you believe? (Score:3, Informative)
In the end I was never one to force any of my Amigas to run MAC software. If I had wanted a MAC I would have bought a MAC.
That sort of advocacy annoyed me be it from other Amiga users, from MAC users, or more recently, from Linux users.
What am I now? Certainly my Amigas, though they all mostly work, are only so much use to me. And certainly I use Windows for the vast share of software available for it. But now days I consider myself orphaned.
I use FreeBSD, I toy with BeOS from time to time, I use Windows (ME and XP), and I'll play with anything I can get my hands on just to tinker with it.
It's been a long time since I can say I loved an OS. I'm very much a multi-platform guy because no one OS is anywhere close to perfect anymore. Some would say for it's time, AmigaDOS 2.0 was about perfect back then. And others would say OS/2 hit that mark at some point as well. I don't know that I'd say I've ever used a perfect OS and I will certainly say the further along we go the further away from perfect they will all get.
That includes Windows as well as Linux.
Re:Do you believe? (Score:1)
Re:Do you believe? (Score:1)
Ever heard of ShapeShifter? A friend of mine ran that (in 93 or 94 i think) on an Amiga4000/040 with a GFX card(Ie. not AGA-only) , and needed NO extra hardware exept from that to emulate a fullblown color mac(with a 800x600 non-interlaced resolution i seem to recall).
Re:Do you believe? (Score:1)
For starters, while a great majority of Amiga users from the early days did use interlaced displays, deinterlaced displays became equally popular after AGA become the standard.
You didn't have to "Rob a ROM". Many people purchased perfectly legal ROMs. Many of the magazines had them for sale so you can leave the whole "pirating the Rom" arguement out.
There were quite a few ways to do Mac emulation perfectly, without any drawbacks and all of the benefits, and all the while still running the Amiga side of things perfectly. Just because you never saw any of these methods put to use does not mean they were not out there.
Zarus no longer uses AmigaDE (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Zarus no longer uses AmigaDE (Score:1)
Apparently the explanation for this is that DE wasn't ready when the developer version was launched, so it won't be added until the consumer release.
Still, I'll believe it when I see it...
A developer website for DE/Intent on Zaurus is here [amigadev.net]. NB: if you want to play with DE on your Zaurus SL-5000D, you currently have to reflash the ROM, removing everyting in favour of DE.
Re:Zarus no longer uses AmigaDE (Score:1)
Re:Boing-Bollocks (Score:1)
AmigaDE runs on Linux.
Re:Boing-Bollocks (Score:1)
And who are "we"?
me 2 (Score:1)
price in Sweden (Score:1)
Who knows? (Score:1)
According to Amiga Inc's CEO Bill McEwen, "before summer this year [amiga.com]".
Re:Who knows? (Score:1)
Amiga (Score:2, Informative)
This scenario makes a lot of sense, however. Back in the day when video hobbyists and professionals stood by their Amigas like tenacious terriers, Amigas really WERE on the forefront of things. Massive port expansion, insane A/V capabilities, fully protected memeory
Re:Amiga (Score:1)
Re:Amiga (Score:2)
Ummm... I don't count 'Enforcer' as "fully protected memory". Amiga adopted a number of things from Unix, but that wasn't one of them. All memory was shared -- this is what made IPC so fast.
Also, the people involved now have no real links with the hardware developers of the past, as demonstrated by their hiring of various 'software development partners' and spurious hardware platform announcements. It's always someone else doing the work... while the people behind the company itself do nothing but trade off the (once actually worth something) name of Amiga.
I used an A1200 for years, so I'm feeling a little bitter about what has happened to the Name since then...
This isn't bad at all. (Score:5, Interesting)
I wanted one of these since I saw the replay/tivo hardware, but 2 things stopped me, first generation so probably there would be firmware issues, better revisions not too far ahead, etc.. and the other was the price for the non-upgradability (well without hacking it
This machine is a step in the right direction, and yes I am an avid amiga fan, if you think all the amiga people are lame zealots, you probably never owned or programmed or enjoyed that piece of advanced technology way ahead of it's time. That being said, I don't beleive it would do a comeback on the desktop unless it doesn't repeat all of linux's errors or arguable moves, even then, there would be a great need of marketting power and it doesn't mean it would still take off...(just look at where BE is today...) Nevertheless, amiga was famous for video, for one thing, whether it was for video processing, all it's gazillion video output possibilities, colors or advanced features, when you heard amiga you were thinking "multimedia" before that term became a buzzword on a 486PC that had a cdrom.
I think it's very nice to see amiga striking tangible deals like this and finally see a product, it's not what everybody wanted (i.e. a computer that rights off the bat kills windows mac and linux and is so revolutionnary that it will be the second video toaster), this will probably never happen because of the current infrastructure in companies, and besides, a lot of projects have tried before, and there are already 1000s of people paid just to think of the future and desings, and they aren't all FOC people. The time when one person could really change things in the computer realm is probably over (of course there's always exeptions so I keep an open mind) what you need to target now is "what is going to be the next electronic revolution and how can I bypass all my competitors" Cellular technology is gaining a lot since a few years, so is HDTV or any new video technology... I just hope they do the right moves and not to many errors, I wish them the best.
Origin of "Multimedia" (Score:2, Informative)
Interesting side note: the term "multi-media" is in fact a trade mark, much like "Ping-Pong". It was first used as the name of the presentation program Scala MultiMedia, for the Amiga of course. One of the slickest presentation programs ever designed, in fact it still slaughters Powerpoint even on a 7.14 MHz A500...
They've since migrated to PC, check it out a www.scala.com [scala.com]. Try doing a site search for "Amiga"... They still write about it and somewhat support it (kudos to them!)
Re:Origin of "Multimedia" (Score:2)
The preferred term back in the Old Days was "Desktop Video". Still not something that most PC's even with TV-outs do super-well, though it's partly a software issue.
Scala was founded in Norway, but a US office was created, and now it's primarily a US operation, with almost all the remaining engineers being ex-Commodore engineers hired right before or after Commodore went under. The CEO is now Jeff Porter, who was head of hardware engineering for a number of years and later head of "special projects" (i.e. pushed aside by cronies of Mehdi Ali, the person who ran Commodore into the ground).
Scala has been growing in popularity, though the focus is mostly on larger commercial installations (HR depts, airports, point-of-sale displays, waiting rooms, cable companies, etc, etc). The local cable company (Comcast) has a local-info channel thats run by Scala software.
Scala has been proving since the days of Pentium 60's and 486DX66's that with the right software (and video card), you can do some very professional amiga-like smooth video generation, and have a really nice UI for building it. Of course, it's a lot easier nowadays than it was in '94.
Scala uses "MMOS", a multimedia dynamic-OO OS we built that runs on top of the host OS (which in most cases is NT/2000/XP nowadays). It's a pretty clean design, given that the people who designed it were mostly from the core of the OS team at Amiga, along with some talented Scala engineers.
Re:Origin of "Multimedia" (Score:1)
Doh! Thanks for giving me this ice shower... I'm feeling much saner now.
Seriously, look at when the multimedia craze started... A couple of years after Scala Multimedia, right?
I don't think slide projectors where the genesis of that?
I acknowledge your point that the word has been used earlier, but I do believe that the current meaning of the word comes from behaviour similar to the program Scala Multimedia
...so spank me!
It's already out in Europe (Score:1)
I dunno about Amiga but... (Score:1)
Cheers,
Mike
Re:I dunno about Amiga but... (Score:1)
I've heard that Mozilla will be dropped soon in favor of Konqueror. This is a bad news, at least for me being a fan of Mozilla and GNOME but I guess is the evidence of the higher level of maturity reached by Konqueror and the KDE.
Correct me if I'm wrong!
Andrea
I've been wondering... (Score:2)
What I'd kind of like to see, to be honest, is for the community to make an Intent VM and then make the C# compiler compile to that instead of IL. Throw in a
Re:I've been wondering... (Score:1)
It's nothing more than marketing buzzwords created by those who don't understand technology.
Besides. Amiga's strength was awesome hardware that allowed you to dig deep into it, and write tight code. What you're describing is Java on steroids, and sooner or later its testicles will shrink.
Go ahead, moderate me as flamebait and a troll. Just as you do for all my amiga comments. Then ask yourself, Mr. Moderator, if you've ever owned an amiga. I have 5, want several more, and I'm even designing hardware for the platform. Funny, huh?
Re:I've been wondering... (Score:3, Informative)
Thus, they are not variables; but I suppose that, you are correct, they are not full registers, either. That said, you might want to be slightly less aggressive when you say someone's wrong. I understand why you think I'm nuts, but surely there was a more polite way to point that out.
Re:I've been wondering... (Score:1)
What is this even supposed to be used for? That holy grail of marketing morons, the stb? Wow, if that isn't a multi-trillion dollar industry just waiting for the earth to slip into some parallel universe where reality doesn't matter. Or maybe its the PDA os market that M$ is gobbling up left and right. What is PalmOS's marketshare again?
The truth is, no matter how many dumb ideas/vaporware get volleyed back and forth by the media, no matter how many stupid little tricks try to ignore it, the ONLY WAY to have a chance at success for a computer company, is to make computers. Be Inc thought they'd get away with writing software and OS, even though they had a kickass machine that might have found its niche. Be is dead. NeXT did the same thing, and only survived in that they were merged back into Apple. There are people that are actively trying to avoid the x86... cater to them. Of course, Amiga Inc. won't do that, so it will die too. Just not fast enough to suit me.
Re:I've been wondering... (Score:1)
Re:Make computers? Make computing devices! (Score:1)
Maybe for you, this vision will be good enough, but for me it's hardly adequate even today. I like to do things that most people would never do, unless it could be bought on a shelf at Walmart, and was promised to configure itself. If it goes your way, I won't be able to have 4 nics in my box, like I do now, there will be no slots at all. No building my own. And with no building my own, there will also be no learning how it all works, short of a masters degree in computer engineering. There are so many good reasons for there to be one more kind of computer, several kinds, and so few reasons to let the industry just explore one approach. Anti-trust issues, lack of creativity, lack of consumer choice, tech security problems on a global scale. Any idea how your general run of the mill script kiddy virus will fare in a world where all systems can run the same code? Now, what if it isn't a script kiddy, but someone with talent? A biosphere where all organisms are genetically identical is a disaster waiting for the right pathogen. Your vision puts us on track for the first part, all we have to do is wait.
Re:I've been wondering... (Score:1, Informative)
Java had it half right- Amiga gives you a fast VM machine that you can program in any language from assembler on up.
Oh, yeah, Amiga has no problem with people writing GPL software, in fact they are very open about helping people write software for it, There's an SDK for Linux (RedHat, SuSE, Corel, etc.) or Windows.
Re:I've been wondering... (Score:2)
Maybe you should have a look.
Re:I've been wondering... (Score:2)
Amiga OS on the Itanium may be next :) (Score:1)
Contemporaries. (Score:2)
Why am I not hearing rumor after rumor, year after year, about the return of the Atari ST, for example?
I seem to remember some vicious flame wars between these two camps back in the eighties, when Commodore and Atari were not only still in existence but actually relevant to the computer industry. Why are the Amiga folks the only ones still carrying the torch for their long deceased platform?
--saint
Re:Contemporaries. (Score:1)
put simply it was further ahead of its time by several orders of magnitude than any 'contemporary': you wouldn't find anyone still using an ST as their main machine because they just weren't up to it, the 'mig however was (and for many people still is... best of luck to 'em)
Re:Contemporaries. (Score:2)
I tried to buy an A4000 when they came out but CBM hiked the price that week. This caused me to think again and I bought a PC instead. For less money, I got twice as much memory (4mb wow!), a monitor, twice as much hard drive space, 24-bit graphics at 800x600 and a faster processor.
In fact, once I replaced Windows 3.1 with OS/2 2.1 on it I didn't miss the Amiga one iota.
It didn't have to be this way. Commodore just fucked up on the marketing big time. I had been an avid Amiga fan but I was exasperated that CBM seemed to be twiddling their thumbs. The price hike was the last straw for me and I'm glad I bailed out.
Re:Contemporaries. (Score:2)
I owned Atari STs and various Amigas but even I saw the death knell nearly a decade ago. It came when I tried to purchase an A4000 around 1994 and the bastards in Commodore hiked the price by £100! They went bust soon after. So instead I bought a 486sx which, including monitor was £200 cheaper and never looked back.
Re:Contemporaries. (Score:1)
Re:Contemporaries. (Score:2)
I always wondered why the other machines of the Amiga's heyday don't have the same bull-terrier style fan base.
Why am I not hearing rumor after rumor, year after year, about the return of the Atari ST, for example?
Well, that would be because Amigas rule and all the other machines suck! Duh!
Re:Contemporaries. (Score:1)
How's THAT for a torch!?!
The TI-99/4A was a sweet platform, with a whopping 16k ram and BASIC built right in.
Add a big ole Periferal(sp?) Expansion box with a 5.25" floppy drive and you were in the big time.
It was also home to the original Parsec game. It kicked!
Jonathan
Re:Contemporaries. (Score:2)
It was kind of cool, though, having EMACS (actually, MINCE) as the editor.
As for fans of other platforms: I take it you haven't heard of TeamOS/2?
Amiga Expo (Score:1)
Amiga is back ... (Score:2, Interesting)
Figures that the x86 wasn't really useable until the 4th revision. I'd say the 3rd revision, but that whole deal with the mathco and what-not, the bugs weren't worked out until 486. Amiga was always before its time. And a little out of my price range, besides who used a computer for video and sound editing? That's what complex dubbing and recording tools were for, not computers. Sheesh, if I only I knew where dreamworks would be 12 years ago, if only ..
It still amazes me that these machines are selling for hundreds of dollars on ebay now, along with the apple II's, and commodores ... but 286's are a dime a dozen. What's this tell me? Absolutely nothing :-) ... just information.
Personally I think the day of MS is over, the day of apple is nearing, and the day of the underdogs is going to rise upon us once again. There will be hundreds on non-standards, software will be written for multiple platforms and operating systems, only to have one more victory to which we will be locked into another companies ideals and software. It's a vicious trend that does not have a foreseeable end to it ... maybe one day ... maybe.
But right now, Go Amiga! :)
Re: (Score:2)
Re:So dead. (And interesting MS/Amiga news) (Score:1)
I too used, and loved, a system now passed away. Zealots still continue to say that it will rise again, but I saw long ago that - "It's dead, Jim."
None of your pathetic hopes are going to bring Windows back, it's dead, dead, do you hear me?
The latest hope (and there's always a new one) is that Microsoft seems to be making a appearance at Amiga's booth at the Embedded Systems Show in San Francisco, CA, March 12 (booth #1602)...
Seriously, the above is true (except in reverse). Amiga will be displaying DE (+ more announcements?) at Microsoft's booth at the above fair, check out Amiga Network News [www.ann.lu], comment 7 (and horrified replies). MS buying AI? MS embracing (and extending...) Intent/DE? MS actually supporting Amiga? Find out in the next episode of Soap!Re: (Score:1)
Re:So dead. (And interesting MS/Amiga news) (Score:1)
Why would Microsoft buy Amiga though, if it's really true (it kind of seems unlikely, given .NET presumably is a head-to-head rival to AmigaDE, they're not going to throw out the CLI now and replace it with DE surely?)
That bit about AutoConfig is interesting too... For those that have never experienced it, Amiga AutoConfig allowed all expansion (Zorro) cards to have drivers in ROMS on the cards. You would just plug in the card, reboot, and the driver would be uploaded and run.
This is all very tied to a single platform (Amiga in this case), but Sun has made a lot of progress in this field with JINI [sun.com], where the drivers are made in Java, and there's also actual interface programs built in.
The coolest demonstration I ever saw was when some Sun guys hooked up a FireWire HD and a digital camera to the same box. Two little icons appeared in windows (Camera, HD). By double clicking on the Camera icon, a (Java, stored in the camera) interface appears, displaying the pictures in the camera in an explorer like way. Clicking the HD made the contents of it (from the Java program stored in the HD) also appear in a explorer like window.
Then, they just drag a picture from the camera to the HD...
True Plug-and-Play (on any system!) requires an architecture agnostic solution of this kind!
You will need a virtual language, and I guess Tao's version is as good as (or better than!) any...
Re: (Score:1)
Microsoft? (Score:1)
This was first discovered in the comments [www.ann.lu] section of ANN [www.ann.lu] (where this news item is also extensively discussed), after a news item [www.ann.lu] was posted this morning.
The MediaTerminal is cool... (Score:5, Interesting)
michael: FYI the media terminal *was launched by the end of 2001 [ostdev.net]*, I live in Sweden, and they
have been selling for quite a while now.
We also had a demo of the new version, that will be launched in 2 weeks or so, in the FOSDEM, at
the Mozilla developers room, it was really great, it runs Linux(2.4.10+ I think), uses an embedded
version of mozilla as browser(0.9.5+, and will be upgraded automatically to 1.0 when it's released),
have 2 USB, 2 FireWire, 1 PCMCIA, Ethernet, and I don't remember what else, but it was really cool...
(full specs here: http://www.nokia.com/multimedia/tech_specs.html [nokia.com])
I don't have a TV, so I doubt I'll buy one, but you can be sure that it will take very short
time to be hacked, also almost all(if not all) the software it runs it's opensource, and you
can find it at: https://www.ostdev.net/ [ostdev.net](I think they are
going to release even more software there in the very near future)
A really cool project, that uses opensource software... <rant>ah, sorry, I forgot that this
days slashdot is full of M$ zealots that run WinXP/IE and think that in linux you have to do
"./configure; make; make install" to install anything(have you heard of RedCarpet? that makes
me think.... RedCarpet/Ximian desktop for the MediaTerminal? that could be cool...(not for me,
of course
[End rambling, back on topic ]
I think it's great that somebody is doing something like this, have in mind that this
will compete directly with the next version of the X-Box(HomeStation or whatever it's
going to be called), and I really prefer to see people using a product based on opensource
(so I can hack it if I want) than having to run windows on their TV(<troll>anyone wants to get
a BSOD in the middle of his favorite movie
from nokia(hi Magnus!) that made the presentation, said that they are going to release xDSL modems
for it, that means that this modems will have drivers for Linux, something that in the past was a really
big problem... in resume(I have to go back to work!) this is a "Very good thing(tm)" and
anybody that cares about open source should be happy that it exists..(even if like me, many
of us aren't probably going to ever use it, after all, we don't have a life, right?
\\Uriel
P.S.: I use FreeBSD with Ion instead of any desktop, but it's really funny
to see people complaining that linux is hard to use when even a 3 years
old could install RedHat(in my experience much easier than installing any
WinXX)
P.P.S.: Hmmm. I think in the end it could be useful for me: a Plan9 CPU or file server...
and I could mount the TV screen(if I had one) from my Plan9 termianl
Launch (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, it's already available [expert.se] in Sweden, and I guess the rest of Europe, though at a price of 8.495 SEK (~ $1000), I can't imagine they sold many of them...
Re:Launch (Score:1)
Regards / ushac
New Technology or Vaporware? (Score:1)
New Technology ! (some clarifications) (Score:1)
What they mean with "Ip over MPEG" is nothing else than IP over DVB - Digital Video Broadcast. DVB is the digital television standard in Europe, and NOKIA is a major player in it, as is Fujitsu-Siemens and others. There exist three DVB transmission styles:
and a similare audio-standard, named DAB - Digital Audio Boradcasting. DAB will replace the FM tuners over the years, and DVB will replace the conventional TV broadcastings.
Still we do not know what "IP over MPEG" is, right ? Well, DVB transmissions consist of a subset of MPEG2. I think this is what they meant with this. I have such a DVB-Card [hauppauge.com] in one of my PCI slots. Together with my USB Host-To-Host bridge, my D-Link NIC this is the third (never asked for, since I use DVB for Television only) network card I have in my system. The DVB standard not only transmits audio/video but also (since we are talking digital, you guessed it...;-)) generic information, as in this case, TCP/IP packets. With this it is possible to use a sattelite (with the SAT version) as network-downstream. This still would require the upstream to go through a conventional method, however. I guess this will change in the next ten years, and DVB will become a standard way to access the Internet...
What is especially interesting are the things going on "behind the scenes", especially from an Open Source point of view:
MHP is a standard, that will incooperate DVB but make it a real standard. At the moment each broadcaster tries to enforce its own modifications and incompatibilities on the users (Germanies largest broadcaster did so, some French pay-channel did, etc.), just as we know similare practices from M$.
LinuxTV.Org also wrote and/or hosts the important (GPL'ed) software for the DVB cards on Linux, both the v4l compatible TV drivers as well as the IP over MPEG ;-) driver. In addition they host a very cool Linux project, named VDR, which makes a harddisk-video recorder out of any linux compatible PC with one ore more DVB card(s).
BTW: see also DirectFB stuff on Freshmeat [freshmeat.net] and for Gods sake, have a look at this amazing GTK+ desktop with full aplpha blending [directfb.org] or the "rootless X Server"(1) [directfb.org] (2) [directfb.org] or "ten MPEG Videos playing at once, blended, without framedrops" [directfb.org]. You will find their GTK+ patches here [directfb.org] and the DVB stuff here [linuxtv.org]
All in all this is perfect for embedded systems and desktop boxes as well as it will be for full blown deksktops. (Linux desktop without X, digital video and audio broadcast based on free and open standards etc.)
BeOS (Score:2)
Jason.
Re:BeOS (Score:2)
Hardly a good comparison IMHO.
-adnans
Lokigames (Score:1)
Too many links! (Score:2)
Re:Pote boudas pote koudas (Score:1)
Re:Difference to .NET framework, JVM, etc (Score:1)
AmigaDE was proposed as a system using the TAO elate/intent technology. This tech is not really a VM but gets more to the core. It is the complete abstraction of a CPU into software. It is a VP (virtual processor).
So you can code ASM for it (and a very nice version of it, with things available, that you couzld not have with real ASM).
Amiga Inc. wanted to enrich and enhance the elate system by creating the "Amiverse", a virtual space (like in Universe) where software modules would fly around like atoms and molecules, creating much larger molecules as soon the system requests a special application.
In fact, one would have an MP3 module, a HTML object etc, which could be reused and creat applications on the fly. At least this is how I understood this.
Knowing the Amige very well I know of one of its (and there were many, believe me, I still use my Amiga daily, Linux can't bring so much joy - and I am a developer) major strengths: IPC scripting. One had a bitmap-paint program. This program exported all of its functionalities (and with major applications these were usually about 100 to 500 commands) to the Amiga IPC scripting language (a rexx derivate) and suddenly you could use all of the bitmap painters functions in your scripting language.
Well, most applications had such an "ARexx port" (our export and address host).
Amiga was/is amazing.
Now the new AmigaDE will have a very new language, called SHEEP and developed by a really cool language designer from the Netherlands "Wouter van Oortmersen"). This language not only will kepp the good old fashion of Application IPC macroing/scripting (Windows has a different technique but with similare efforts, they name it WSH, which is a bit like
This is all my personal interpretation.
For more info, check ouzt the AmigaWorld News (or however they call it) at www.amiga.com.
It is pretty interesting.
Re:Difference to .NET framework, JVM, etc (Score:1)
You are right. And I did not see the AmigaDE/TAO system running. But the industry did. And many many of them want TAO. TAO is quite a hotty. It seems to be what Java tried and would not do. Java is too much of a bloat.(IMHO)
See, having a VP means that you can dig down to the core. My personal opinion is, that IT tech is years behind, and each year they go ahead (faster CPU, more memory) they step a year back. The art of computing has always been fetching a lot of functionality into small devices. And while this still is valid on the hardware side, it is not anymore on the software side. One of the most incredible things with the original AmigaOS was that you could do incredible stuff with just a 8MHz CPU and 512KB of RAM. I have an Amiga4000 with SCSI, MC68060@50MHz, 83MB RAM, 20GB HDD CPU and a fgx card and an Athlon1.2GHz, SCSI, 512MB RAM, dualboot (Windows,Linux) GeForce2 and whatever....Guess where I do my core development on ? Right, on the Amiga. And why ? Because it saves me from bloat. It forces me to think about optimization at all (not only for speed and response), it tells me how to do things neat and tight. This is what is needed in the computer business: Small, fast and affordable devices. Having a VP means to me "Nothing better than ASM..."
Re:Difference to .NET framework, JVM, etc (Score:1)
ASM is fun: You got the machine "at your fingertips".
ASM is fun: It is like trying to get that dirt out of the head of your vacuum-cleaner by poking around with your fingers.
You write:
What about "Modules" written in ASM ? What about ASM Modules in OOP ?....
Well, do not forget, this is a virtual processor. That means, this ASM is as ideal as its inventors could dream it. It gives you much more than convnetional ASM. I did not use it myself. But I am pretty sure it has its reasons of existance. And sooner or later, whatever language you choose, whatever technique you prefer: It gets translated into machine-code. With ASM you're a little closer. In any case, the control is upon you. Completely. And you can optimize yourself.
Anyway, this is about an ideal CPU with an ideal language. If you do not want to use VP ASM you use VP C or whatever. You can still write your critical stuff in ASM, inlined.
It's a matter of taste, of skills, of the CPU you code for and much more. The classic AmigaOS was coded in many parts in ASM. That is where it got (also) its responsieveness from, scientists were actually using it in realtime environments, but it was not an RTOS.
Anyway, this gets off-topic. Amiga kicked (and still does) butt ! Of course, this is something new, we talk about and has nothing to do with the original Amiga anymore. It is completely new and different. And I think they will fail because they did not yet show a real product and have the worst marketing I have ever seen.
Re:Difference to .NET framework, JVM, etc (Score:1)
You're missing the entire point of what assembly is used for. Generally speaking, there is nothing inherently faster about using assembly over other higher level languages. In fact, C and C++ compilers will usually beat the pants off of any but the most experienced assembly programmers.
What assembly is good for is using machine-specific primitives that aren't accessible via the high level language you are using. For example, currently, if you want to make use of the SIMD extensions of most processors, you'll have to write assembly, because the compilers just aren't smart enough to figure out how to parallelize your code. (This is changing, though. Intel has already released a C++ compiler which seems to be a good start at this).
Programming platform independent assembly is a waste of time. Any competent VM has an interface that lets you call into native code - thus letting you write any platform specific assembly you might desire.
God bless,
-Toby
Re:Difference to .NET framework, JVM, etc (Score:1)
Well...I use it myself. So, no, I am not. But I see your point. On the other hand you do not see the point I try to defend. I have basically two issues with your point of view:
1
You "idealize" the available compilers.
"Usually", yes, but noone uses ASM for "usual" tasks.
What about:
2
Fact is, that we have a new, virtual computer, virtual hardware, etc. AmigaDE is not being realized as a V-Machine, but as V-Hardware. That is a big difference ! A VM might emulate the ideal environment for development and runtime. A VH emulates the ideal hardware. Now, within this zone, why do you think Assembly won't be a good thing to have ? I see no difference as how 'inline' assembly, used in higher-level languages to speed up execution is suddenly not a need anymore as soon the CPU is not being realized within hardware but software.
But this is not platform independant assembly. Why would they do it ? This is assembly tied to the TAO platform, which in itself tries to realize a computer done fully in software. Programming for this platform will sometimes be very low level. It is the most mobile computer at all, since you can even share it among mobile computers of different architecture. And we find a very different 'hosting' environment here. AmigaDE is supposed to run on cell-phones (weak CPU, less memory), Handhelds, Desktops, later servers etc. This is the actual goal. They want a computer, that is a full abstract, a computer, that fits onto a Disk you keep in your pocket or whatever. It would be fully scalable and whether you find yourself slipping in your "computer on a disk" into a terminal at the airport or on your desktop at home, it will sense the underlying hardware and scale appropriately. (This has nothing to do with VP ASM but I wanted to mention'what the system actually is we are talking about).
Compilers do create overhead or miss a need here and there, which gets optimized by hand later, if needed. So, why would a C compiler on a virtual CPU not create overhead ?
However, I am not a TAO programmer. I don't know much about it and most of my speculations are just that: speculations. :-) But I insist on the very fact, that the TAO/AmigaDE system is not a VM. It is much more. It is a Virtual Computer. Taking care of this, ASM (and we are talking of an ASM implementation here, developers start praising as soon it is being mentioned) might be looked upon a different light.
BTW, you're hitler quote in bio is bogus (Score:1)
This quotation, often seen without any date or citation at all, suffers from several credibility problems, the most significant of which is that the date given (*in alternate versions, the words "This year..." are replaced by "1935...") has no correlation with any legislative effort by the Nazis for gun registration, nor would there have been a need for the Nazis to pass such a law, since gun registration laws passed by the Weimar government (in part to address street violence between Nazis and Communists!) were already in effect.
More: hitler gun control [urbanlegends.com]
I wonder if a reactionary right-wing puke like yourself will allow the truth to get in the way of your use of this bogus pro-gun quote. I doubt it. With your type, the ends always justify the means.