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Toys

Palm on a Bicycle 97

Posted by michael from the burning-rubber dept.
jcwise writes: "Want to use your Palm or Handspring as a bike computer? Here are two different products that use completely different approaches. I'm not sure if either are better than a $30 bike computer. With PDA prices falling, it might be a fun hack."
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Palm on a Bicycle More

Palm on a Bicycle

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  • Would be a very expensive bike computer if you fell over and broke it.
    • A $300, 5 pound, 10x10x6" replacement for a $30, 2 oz, 1x1x0.5" part.

      "A $1000 computer will protect a $5 surge-protector."
    • Exactly. Not to mention rain, mud, road scum, etc.


      I go through at least a computer a year on my roadbike, for some reason or other. Mountain bike I've given up and just ride it and always just have to wonder how much more suffering until the end of the race.

    • Falling and Breaking (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ackthpt ( 218170 )
      Well, as long as you want to be a worry wart, how about having it stolen?

      "Yes officer someone stole my computer."

      "I see, is there anything that would distinguish it as yours?"

      "Yes, it was attached to a blue Trek 5500 with a raccoon tail on the back of the seat."

      I have a couple of the little Vetta and Cat Eye computers (well, hardly computers) on my bike already, just for mileage, speed, etc (I was going downhill about 37 mph yesterday on my mountain bike, whee!) and they're pretty good for basic information. For a few bucks more you can get heartrate and cadence (how fast you pedal) monitors. Bikebrain [bikebrain.com] has had a nice unit which offers pretty much everything for quite a while, there are some high marks for it on rec.bicycles.* newsgroups. I bought a Garmin eTrex GPS to keep track of my rides, hikes, etc, and it has a little bracket which I can put on my handlebar and take it off easily (important since the mountain bike requires major hosing down after most rides) It's shock resistant to some large number of G's, more than I'd survive

      It's important to remember that riding with one of these things it's not likely to take much of a beating, since you pretty much have to be there with it and it it's too much for it, you're probably splattered by now. Thou I'm not sure how well a hard disk might work in one, I wouldn't recomend it.

      Biggest concerns will actaully be water/dust resistance, since this is what you get in the great outdoors, possibly heat if you ride in the sun a lot (LCD displays turn black if they get too warm, lot of help that would be), other concern is weight. Many riders try to strip weight off bikes, because it takes incrementally more energy to haul it up hills. Tiny Cat Eye and Vetta computers are ideal for everyday riding, where a bike computer I'd only use to chart rides, same as I do with my GPS, to get an idea of the profile and perhaps what cadence worked or didn't for me in the long run. Leave the heavy bits home when you're really out for a ride.

      • I too have a Cat Eye, and it does everything i need. The one redeeming value of using this setup on a bike would be neat little graphs and transfering the data to your computer.

        Of course, there's nothing saying you have to use this on a bike.
        • The one redeeming value of using this setup on a bike would be neat little graphs and transfering the data to your computer.

          That's what I use my GPS for, I transfer tracklogs into Topo USA. There's some other software out there, which is shareware (find it on tucows, i think) which will pull tracklogs from a GPS and allow you to put it into graphs.

          I forgot to mention that Garmin also has a GPS receiver you can plug into a Palm PDA, and run software on there. My eTrex is about 6oz. and I can even leave little notes in the calendar. It's about as good as I'd need for now. For heavy duty training, though, a bikebrain or bikini is the way to go, since you're probably going to get all technical and start weighing your pasta, like Lance does.

  • nice. (Score:5, Funny)

    by Goofy Gavin ( 561311 ) on Saturday February 23, 2002 @09:38AM (#3056982)
    all that's missing is a little meter that keeps track of how much time you're wasting by building this system.

  • Old news.. been there done that. (Score:3, Informative)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Saturday February 23, 2002 @09:46AM (#3057005) Homepage
    I had this back in 1999. There's a shareware program that does all this and simply connects to a el-cheapo bike "puter" and uses it's reed switch as the pulse input on the rs232 port.

    it was nice, graphs, averages, etc... it just sucked down batteries like mad. but it was a great addition to my recumbent trike.
    • fount it... HERE [swipnet.se]
    • Tough on batteries: That's why I went with NiMH cells, they seem to handle the current drawn and constant recharging much better. They're pretty light cells, too, if you need to carry a backup set.

      Garmin, and probably others by now, offer a GPS receiver you can plug into Palms to track your position, probably nice if you want to see which street you're going down.

      In town there are PedEx couriers who might benefit from such a device, assuming it doesn't distract them from traffic.

  • Bicycle PDA (Score:4, Funny)

    by invisi ( 531162 ) on Saturday February 23, 2002 @09:49AM (#3057015)
    So, you're riding along, and you're like, shoot, where am I going agian? So you whip out that handy stylus for that PDA, and you start writing. Pretty soon, you realize that you've let go of your handle bars, and run into one of those light posts that keep intruding where you bike.

    • Re:Bicycle PDA (Score:3, Interesting)

      by ackthpt ( 218170 )
      So, you're riding along, and you're like, shoot, where am I going agian? So you whip out that handy stylus for that PDA, and you start writing. Pretty soon, you realize that you've let go of your handle bars, and run into one of those light posts that keep intruding where you bike.


      This is why you pretty much need one button control and it would be near a shifter. I.e. go from the statistics screen to a map (assuming you have a GPS receiver plugged in) My GPS tracks where I'm going, as I go along, showing me going down roads, etc. Maybe more helpful when off road, however, GPS work badly on a moving platform in canyons or among redwoods (even works pretty bad inside a small house, so you get an idea how weak the signals are.)


      Another option, is the P Brain [nec.com], don't know much about it, but it gets good reviews and is one button.

      • Re:Bicycle PDA (Score:3, Funny)

        by Ooblek ( 544753 )
        What would you need a one button control for? All you need is to have about 7 whirly LEDs on the front and a speaker for a voice. Then you have the K.I.T.T bike and it tells you to watch out for the lightposts.

        The added advantage is, of course, the turbo boost for jumping over those big annoying trucks. (But you would probably have to make sure you have one of those slotted seats for the landing...ouch!) The ejector seat function would be pretty fun too. Of course, they would probably pass a law against the ejector seat.....I know I would go into a busy public area and leave the bike unlocked so someone would steal it. I'm sure it would be hours of fun watching bike thieves getting their asses blasted off the bike during their getaway.

        I guess the only downside is that the bike might come with a signed pic of David Hasselhoff. I don't know if I'd want to contaminate my paper shredder with that.

        • I guess the only downside is that the bike might come with a signed pic of David Hasselhoff. I don't know if I'd want to contaminate my paper shredder with that.

          I wouldn't sweat it, the first big orange fireball you passed through would probably take care of it. Can't have anything as gimmicky as that without big orange fireballs appearing from time to time.

  • Teh bikinie bike computer seems to underutilise the palm capabilities, and seem oriented to a more lowend user. the bike brain seems to be for a more serious pro biker, with some added capabilities that would make sense in that context.

    Note that "BikeBrain is compatible with Pilot 1000/5000, PalmPilot Professional/ Personal, Palm III/x/e, Palm V/x. We do not support the Palm VII yet. " so you do not need the latest and greatest yet. Heck, you can get a Palm iiie in the palm store right now for under $80 bucks, plus shipping. That is not bad.

  • Not there yet (Score:1, Insightful)

    by grumling ( 94709 )
    I recently spent some time researching cyclometers, and came across these. Compared to what is out there from cateye [cateye.com]and vetta [vetta.com], these just can't compare. The Palm devices are much larger and really don't check enough to be useful for real training. Cadence (pedal revs/min) and heart rate are essential for me, if for nothing else, to keep from getting bored. I use a GPS for the rest. I'm sure someday they'll have it right, and no one will be using dedicated cyclometers, but at this time, it is tough to beat one of the higher end cyclometers.

  • Though I can ride w/o hands, I'd probably crash playing chess or simcity on my way to school. Davis [davis.ca.us] has way too many bikes. =P

    "Not another bike distraction!!!"

  • What would be better (Score:4, Informative)

    by hey! ( 33014 ) on Saturday February 23, 2002 @10:12AM (#3057071) Homepage Journal
    is to get the magellan GPS unit. You get speed, plus you can create a log of your actual route. Absolute altitude is terrible on all GPS units, but you may be able to a pretty good slope reading. THe unit sends normal NMEA strings over a serial connection, so it's relatively trivial to write software for.

    Magellan receivers lock on fast, and the handpring/magellan handspring module makes a nice, clean combination (relatively compact as a system, no external cables).
    • I don't think a palm would last much after my first good wipeout. I use a Garmin etrex GPS (rugged, waterproof, small, and only $100). It records all the same stuff a bike computer does except cadence (although the palm units don't seem to do cadence either), plus it can tell you your route and so forth. It doesn't need to have any wheel sensors and extra wires strapped to the bike since it does all its measurement via satellite signal. It's a lot smaller than a palm, too (although somewhat bigger than a $30 bike 'puter) They sell a handlebar mount for it, and the computer sync cable lets you save your ride data and load route data in advance.
    • There is at least one gps unit i know of that is good for absolute altitude, the garmin eTrax summit, it has a real altimeter in it, so even if you can't get a single sattelite, you can still get your altitude.
      • As far as I can tell this unit gets it altitude signals by constantly checking the air pressure levels. By comparing them to the previous signal and a hardcoded altitude/air pressure chart. This is quite accurate enough to figure out when to put on the oxygen mask but for an avid biker who has worked hard for every uphill inch it is not accurate enough, as air pressure is subject to change often and rapidly due to weather conditions, humidity of air and stuff like that.

        So it is quite good for absolute altitudes, but not for measuring how mand altitude meters you pedaled in a constant up-and-down terrain.

        Older bike computers got these figures by employing a special part that measures the slope on which the bike stands. It was a bitch to setup (as you need a total plane surface and line the thing up exactly parallel to the floor. But once they were installed a very good accuracy was reached. (it would just check how steep the bike was "standing" and then compute the altitude done with this figure and the speed readouts from the wheel sensor). Of course these things could never tell you the absolute altitude, but then again there have not been too many Mt. Everest excursions on 2 wheels.
  • If one had an old PDA lying around, this might be fun to try.

    But the form factor of the PDA seems less than ideal for biking. Bike computers are generally a lot smaller than a Palm and the Bikini approach in particular looks unwieldy. Besides, if I'm going to mount something that big onto my bike, it had better have a GPS receiver built in.
  • Soap on a rope!

    Is there a "Pocket PC on a Bike" in the near future too? I want to be able to ride my bike while watching PocketPr0n on my HP Jornada 548!

    Chris

  • There was a guy a few years back ( can't find any references at the mo' ) how had integratted a Mac Plus onto a low-rider style bicycle. He could type his e-mails and do his work while on the move - he had a handle grip keyboard (one of those where you only have four buttons or so) to type in the data and the pointer was controlled by his eyes.

    The Palm certainly has the advantage that it is a tad smaller and probably easier to retrofit onto a standard bike that a Mac Plus is, but then again the usage of the Palm appears to be fare more limited in this case.

    • You might be thinking of the guy who built the BEHEMOTH recumbant bike, with the trailer.

      He had WAY more than a Mac plus. As I recall, he had a Mac, a Sun Workstation, and a PC all networked with wireless internet access, integrated GPS, and a credit card verifer for when he did consulting as he travelled.

      He had some strange buttons on his handlebars for typing, and one of the military inspired "cobra helicopter" eyepieces for viewing his screen.

      I don't have time to search for a link, but I'm sure it's out there.

      Rich...

  • Palm on a motorcycle (Score:3, Interesting)

    by larry bagina ( 561269 ) on Saturday February 23, 2002 @10:38AM (#3057150) Journal
    I saw the movie Collateral Damage last night -- The Arnold S. movie about a fireman seeking vengeance on a Columbian terrorist that was postponed for obvious reasons.

    One scene near the end has the villian using a Palm IIIc (IIRC) with map software to navigate the tunnels beneath some capital building. He had it hooked up to his motorcycle, and presumably with a gps, as it was showing him where he was in real time.

  • "fun hack" (Score:4, Insightful)

    by j1mmy ( 43634 ) on Saturday February 23, 2002 @10:45AM (#3057169) Journal
    With PDA prices falling, it might be a fun hack."

    It's not much of a hack if someone's done it before you and gave you instructions on how to do it yourself.

  • Uh... (Score:1, Offtopic)

    by ctar ( 211926 )
    "Want to use your Palm or Handspring as a bike computer?


    No?!

  • A bike computer? That sounds roughly equivalent to driver's side television. Oooh, yeah, how about the mile high club for pilots?

    And hey, where does the guy live who says "With PDA prices falling"? I wonder if you can pick me one up. Where I am, they haven't even slipped, much less fell.
    • As a cyclist, allow me to cluebat you in.

      A bike computer is a small (or, in this case, not-so-small) device attached to the handlebars of your trusty steed. The cheaper computers only track speed, distance, and trip time; and the more expensive computers (when mated with the appropriate components[1]) can track altitute, position, and even cadence -- the last of these being vital to any moderately serious road cyclist.

      So; almost all bikes nowadays are equipped with computers; the Palm just provides a larger display. Since it can't track cadence, however, it would be useless to pretty much any road cyclist. The fact that Palms don't absorb repedative shock all too well rules mountain biking out. However, the large display size makes a Palm almost ideal for recumbent cyclists.

      [1] For example, the Flight Deck computers must be mated with Shimano 105 (or better) components.

  • Neat. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by base3 ( 539820 )
    But bicycle-based computing is hardly a new idea. This guy [microship.com] was doing it back in the days of the TRS-80 Model 100, and has written extensively about it. IIRC, there was a column in Byte or Creative Computing chronicling his adventures in "Computing Across America."
    • Practical cycle-based computing is a new idea. Two things that it helps to remember about Steve Roberts: 1) "Technomading" is all he does, all day; it's all right for some, but many of us would like to be able to pop the PDA on our bike, go on a trip, pop the PDA off and have an easily downloadable trip log/journal/route map, without making a lifestyle out of it. 2) The BEHEMOTH weighs 580 pounds. There was a story about Steve Roberts signing up for Iowa's RAGBRAI, thinking that it would be a nice, easy, relatively flat ride, and having to drop out. There's certainly something to be said for taking your time, but generally I like to finish a century in a day, not a week.

  • Very, very worthwhile for cyclists. (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    A $30 bike computer will tell you a couple of things:
    • speed
    • average speed for the trip
    • trip duration
    • odometer
    • max speed
    • cadence (speed you're pedalling)


    That's spiffy for a lot of cyclists. But if you are a racer or you do tours or ultramarathon riding, it would also be very nice to ask questions like "what were my splits between miles 5-10 and 10-15?". It looks like BikeBrain has an altimeter in it, so it can also give you data like what your best time on a hill was, adjusted by the grade of the hill.

    Most of the extra functions aren't things that you'd necessarily want to have access to while you were still riding, but a Palm is a very good way to capture data during your ride and then review it later.

    I'd like to see even more telemetry available, like rider's pulse, blood pressure, and wind speed.
    • It looks like BikeBrain has an altimeter in it, so it can also give you data like what your best time on a hill was, adjusted by the grade of the hill.

      It looks like it has an altimeter, but it doesn't.

      It keeps track of how far you have gone on your ride, and if it has a route plan that includes altitude, it shows what your altitude ought to be if you are following the route plan. The altitude graph, alas, will not work right if you alter the route slightly, or ride some completely new route.

      There are bike computer systems with altimeters built in, and one of those would be better.

      steveha
    • I'd like to see even more telemetry available, like rider's pulse, blood pressure, and wind speed.



      Dunno about blood pressure, and I've never seen a bike-mounted windspeed sensor, but heart rate monitors are cheap and easy to use; hooking one of those up to a Palm would indeed be a useful and interesting hack.

  • Sounds Cool to me (Score:5, Interesting)

    by lysurgon ( 126252 ) <joshk AT outlandishjosh DOT com> on Saturday February 23, 2002 @12:24PM (#3057426) Homepage Journal
    I don't know if it's my non-typical slashdot lifestyle, but I use my bike as my primary means of transportation. I live in Brooklyn, but affairs call me into the city nearly every day, so I end up biking about 6 to 12 miles 5 days a week. This would be a great secondary (albeit fringe) application for a handheld.

    As for the breakage issue, I've been riding in Manhattan traffic for over 2 years now, and I've only had one accident so far. I've broken a lot more things by just dropping my backpack than I have wrecking my bike.

    Finally, I think this could be the tool for messengers. I've done a bit of it and my roomate paid rent for a while pulling tags. The difference between a successful and unsuccessful bike messenger is not speed, its knowing where you're going and knowing how to get around the inside of buildings you make deliveries to. This would make a great on-board asset for professional messengers as it would allow them to share routes, both on the street and in buildings.

    Think ahead a few years and a wireless connection would let dispatch download the next pickup or drop directly to the messenger's onboard computer. It would make them work a lot more like UPS or fedex.

  • Best... Bicycle... Mod... EVER! (Score:4, Funny)

    by tswinzig ( 210999 ) on Saturday February 23, 2002 @12:29PM (#3057447) Journal
    Tape the PDA to your spokes for that cool noise effect.

  • Why? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I mean, in today's world with digital distractions everywhere, why should we put a computer on bicycles? Usually, when I go biking, it is to get some fresh air and to see the morning dew, etc, etc. Why do we need to play HardBall while we are biking?

  • Yeah right (Score:4, Interesting)

    by EchoMirage ( 29419 ) on Saturday February 23, 2002 @12:33PM (#3057459)
    Yeah right, like I'm going to put a fragile $300 PalmPilot onmy mountain bike when I go terrorizing up and down trails and downtown urban rides.

    There's really no use for this stuff, as there are bike computers that are more versatile than this which are cheaper and better integrated with the bike.

    Take for example Shimano's excellent Flight Deck [shimano.com] technology, which integrates with their higher-level drivetrain components (XT, XTR, Ultegra, and Dura-Ace).

    Don't ride Shimano? No problem! CatEye [cbike.com] makes excellent bike computers as well!

    Another major consideration would be weight. Most PalmPilots weigh about 1/2 a pound (200g). That's a huge weight penalty, especially considering most people do everything they can to lighten their bikes.

    Moral of story: good attempt, but bad idea. I'll stick with my Flight Deck.
    • Another major consideration would be weight. Most PalmPilots weigh about 1/2 a pound (200g). That's a huge weight penalty, especially considering most people do everything they can to lighten their bikes.

      I never understood why so many people worry about the weight of their componentry (for casual riders at least). I can can spend $1000 to $2000 shaving five pounds off my bike, or I can just lose five pounds.

      • OT: bike weight loss (Score:2, Informative)

        by EchoMirage ( 29419 )
        It's because you losing five pounds isn't nearly as important as the bike losing a few pounds, especially in rotational weight (rims, spokes, tubes, tires). Pedalling an 18 pound bike versus a 23 pound bike is much easier, regardless of your weight.

  • A better hack... (Score:3, Funny)

    by cornice ( 9801 ) on Saturday February 23, 2002 @12:54PM (#3057515)
    A better hack would be to make my $30 bike computer store my address book and calendar...
  • I looked into using a Palm for a bike computer, and concluded that I wasn't very interested. I live in the Seattle area, and I ride in the rain. The BikeBrain solution comes with a plastic protector for your Palm, but it isn't really waterproof.

    The good thing of course is that a Palm can capture a lot of data. But just capturing wheel spin data to show speed and distance isn't enough to make me buy either of these solutions.

    Last autumn I bought myself a Specialized P.Brain [specialized.com] computer. I love it; it collects wheel turn data (like the two Palm solutions) and also altitude and heart rate data. A PC interface lets you capture your data and make pretty charts. You can get a graph showing your speed, altitude, and heart rate plotted against either time or distance. Read more about it here [nec.com].

    The PC download software is for Windows; I'm planning to try to get it working under WINE if I can. The data is stored in some opaque binary format, but you can get the data out with Dan Connelly's Perl script (get it here [flash.net].

    The P.Brain isn't the only data-collecting bike computer. There are other brands. I have heard good things about the Polar XTrainer. There are even computer systems that directly measure your power output; you have a wheel built with a power-measuring hub, and the computer keeps track of power. Pro riders (including Lance Armstrong) use these. For example, the Power-Tap [power-tap.com].

    steveha
  • Gee, I feel like I'm missing something here. I *always* use my palm (both of them, actually) when riding a bike.

    When I was a teenager, I knew a guy who could do a _handstand_ on his handlebars, but a handspring?!? Sounds like a good way to wipe out, get hurt and trash your bike to boot!

    .

  • New? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    These are hardly new... I recall looking at these about 2 1/2 years ago. Neat concept, now that you can pick up used Palm Pilots for almost nothing. Back then, it was a very expensive bike computer option.

    -dc
  • Take a look at http://www.palmhalter.de/ [palmhalter.de] (its german, use Google [google.com] to translate it), where a friend of mine shows his own construction to fix a palm on nearly everything, even a bike ...

    -kk-

    • Quote:


      The ultimative mounting plate for its Palm III or V (or IIIx, IIIc, IIIe)

      Shoppen with the Palm?

      Jaja, easily said!



      In hand the Palm, at the other hand the purchase car.

      Only: With what do the products of the shelf take??



      The solution is called: MORE PALMHALTER!

      Wedge the Palm with the PALMHALTER to that

      And already you have grasp of the purchase car a hand freely!



      Gotta love robotranslation.

  • Dodgeball (Score:1, Flamebait)

    by Wonko42 ( 29194 )
    Great, so now, not only do I have to dodge stupid bikers riding the wrong way down the right side of the road, begging to be hit by a car. Now I get to dodge retarded bikers riding the wrong way down the right side of the road while using their bicycle PDA. Brilliant.

    I think it's absolutely amazing that I've never hit a bicyclist while driving. No matter how careful I am, there are always morons on bikes doing stupid things, breaking laws, and coming out of nowhere as if trying to make me hit them. I guess the really amazing thing is that they don't get hit more often by people less careful than me.

    • ....doing stupid things, breaking laws, and coming out of nowhere....
      This could be just as easily applied to motorists (or society in general if you so wish). This is compounded further by the fact that road laws seem to completely ignore the advanteages of bicycles as a means of transport. Does a bike really need to stop at a red light when planning to turn left, when it can easily slip around without obstructig the flow of traffic. BTW : If you think cyclists make driving a worrying experience you should really try riding a bike in traffic.....
      • I agree, motorists should be held to the same standard, however I rarely see motorists driving against traffic in the wrong lane...

        I rode my bike to school for about a year, before I had a driver's license. This involved riding in heavy rush-hour traffic on some of the busiest roads in my area (Beaverton, Oregon if you're curious). I developed a great respect for cars after I hit a patch of ice at an intersection, my bike slipped out from under me, and I ended up sprawled on my stomach in the middle of the busy intersection, with cars swerving and honking and trying not to run me over.

        Now, to their credit, while I tend to have the same animosity towards other drivers as I have towards cyclists, when I was riding my bike to school I don't ever recall an incident where my life was put in danger by something unlawful that a driver did. The only times I was ever in any danger were the times I made a stupid mistake or ignored a traffic law.

        Thus, it really pisses me off when cyclists ignore the laws that are there for their own protection. A lot of cyclists don't seem to understand just how difficult it is even to see them, much less avoid hitting them when they pop out of nowhere. I'm all for bicyclists, but I would really rather not run one over just because they're being stupid.

        • The busiest roads in Beaverton Oregon must not be very busy if you were never put in danger by a vehicle in a one year period. I would say once or twice a month I am put in fear of my life by motorists. The biggest mistake motorists make is trying to help me out.

          The number one rule for avoiding accidents when driving is BE PREDICTABLE. When out in traffic no one can possibly watch everthing at once, so they are constantly relying on predictions of what other drivers/bicyclists are doing. For some reason motorists think they are doing me some favor by dramatically reducing their speed when I'm waiting to cross the street. What this does is decrease the space between cars behind them trapping me right where I am. And it also is confusing to myself and other drivers, because they failed to do what everyone was expecting them to do.

          Another thing drivers do is stop on roads w/ lanes >2 in the lane closest me, in effect creating a wall between me and other traffic. One of two bike accidents I have seen was a bicyclist crossing in front of a helpful driver who had stopped in the rightmost lane; unfortunately the bicyclist got creamed by a car in the next lane; both the driver and the bicyclist's view of eachother was blocked by the stopped car.

          Another thing drivers do is act like they going to let you go, and then jsut as you start to go, they get impatient and start to go. At this point you get caught in a game of chicken, trying to decide who is going to cross who. I make it a point to never cross a cars direction of travel unless there is an explicit traffic control device giving me the right of way, and even then I'm very cautious.

          Ultimately a bicycle is just another vehicle, and no one needs to be more responsible for my safety then me. This is why bicycles must obey the same traffic laws as cars. Cars yielding the right-of-way unexpectedly when they wouldn't for another vehicle screw up everybody.

          Something bicyclists do that annoys me when I'm driving is choosing the narrowist roads to bike on.

          On the way to the university in my town there is a bike route; it is on a residential street and signs restrict traffic to residents only. The road is extra wide, has it's own traffic signals which detect bicyclists, and is always kept smoothly paved. Two blocks south is a busy but narrow street I drive to/from the univeristy on in my car. Invariably when I am driving home some idiot bicyclist has chosen to risk his life (and everyone else's) on the narrow busy street instead of taking the bicycle route two blocks away.

          I guess the point is, there sure are a lot of idiots out there, and I don't think a PDA is going help or hurt that situation.
  • It would be nice if there was a thing that would attach to your weal to power your pda.

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