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Music Media

Will Your CD Player Tell on You? 862

An anonymous reader writes "Ever feel like not being a marketing statistic? Well just by playing certain store-bought compact discs in your home or office computer, your new music disc may be transmitting your listening habits in real time to the respective record company...." Charming. Read on for more...
Anonymous Continues: "A company by the name of Bandlink is providing technology to record companies that allows a cd played in a personal computer to contact their server and relate statistics such as what track you're listening to and when you're listening to them. This information is then compiled into customizable reports that allow the record company to develop "User Profiles". There are benefits listed for the consumer such as cd-specific chatrooms, concert information, etc but the question remains: What's your price for privacy? The only indication that the cd you're purchasing is Bandlink "enabled/disabled" is a small logo on the packaging. There is no mention of a opt in/opt out agreement when the cd is inserted on the website and none was displayed in a personal demonstration.

Favorite quote from their website: "Virtually any information you want to know about your fan or the quality of your release can be obtained.""

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Will Your CD Player Tell on You?

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  • by Trusty Penfold ( 615679 ) <jon_edwards@spanners4us.com> on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:21PM (#4895275) Journal

    What sort of idiot has their firewall configured to let their CD player send packets out?

    • by smittyoneeach ( 243267 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:23PM (#4895297) Homepage Journal
      The Average Idiot.
      • by hitzroth ( 60178 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:36PM (#4895410)
        Idiots aren't average. That's why they're idiots.
        • by soulsteal ( 104635 ) <(soulsteal) (at) (3l337.org)> on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:53PM (#4895524) Homepage
          No, the average median person is an Idiot. What scares me is that 49% of the population is dumber than that.
        • by Tingler ( 56229 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:53PM (#4895525)
          I guess you haven't been to a mall lately.
        • by jbf ( 30261 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:53PM (#4895529)
          The vast majority of people I deal with (in the real world) are idiots. And no, I'm not in tech support/customer service.
      • The same damn person that is running iMesh, or KaZaA. Both of which are INFINITELY worse about privacy.
      • by rock_climbing_guy ( 630276 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @10:46PM (#4895892) Journal
        The most important thing to bear in mind concerning idiots is this. Consider how dumb the median idiot is. Half of them are dumber than that.
      • maybe you should download zone alarm, it's good for those who don't know too much about securing stuff ...
      • by Esterhaus_48 ( 634600 ) on Monday December 16, 2002 @12:42AM (#4896482) Homepage
        Many DVD disks include "InterActual" (previously known as "PC Friendly") software which is autorun upon DVD insertion on Windows machines. To the typical home consumer, the message presented appears as if it originated from the PC itself, prompting the user to install the software in order to view the DVD content.

        There are several issues with this, and relavent to the topic of "illegitimacy of spyware":
        1. "InterActual" doesn't actually install an MPEG2 decoder filter, it merely uses the existing filter provided with a new PC
        2. "InterActual" software attempts to redirect the user to whatever content is available online relating (or not) to the title being viewed - spam essentially
        3. "InterActual" assigns itself as the default DVD playback application in Windows, and thus the user is subjected to the inferior quality of the DVD navigation software
        4. "InterActual", if the user performs the standard "click-thru" agreement to watch their DVD content, broadcasts information about what DVD content the user views

        Suffice to say, these points are easily discovered with a Google search, so I'll refrain from excessive linking and leave further research to the reader.

        Now, for the more-than-capable user (read: most of you reading this), an explanation for preventing/disabling/uninstalling this spyware is obviated. But as the initiated, it's our duty to explain this to those who may not understand (read: friends, neighbors, family) what happens with spyware such as "InterActual" software.

        On a personal note: After purchasing my last PC from Dell (please no "Dude" jokes) and inserting a DVD disk, it presented me with a dialog informing me that "InterActual" software was attempting to install and overwrite my settings, and gave me the option to block "InterActual" from installing on my machine. As expected, content is played through the standard DVD software provided by the OEM and I don't have to see that annoying banner anymore when I insert an "InterActual" or "PC Friendly Enabled!" disk.

        Cheers!

        J. Esterhaus
    • by BlackGriffen ( 521856 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:23PM (#4895298)
      The kind who uses a CDDB, or who doesn't have a firewall.

      BlackGriffen
    • by DDX_2002 ( 592881 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:24PM (#4895313) Journal
      Yeah. One more reason why "autoplay" is unchecked on my machine.

      Is this USA only, or are these for sale in Canada or in Europe? Because if they are, Canada's PIPEDA and the EU DPD mean wake up and smell the lawsuits.

      • They're in Canada. (Score:5, Informative)

        by quantumparadox ( 454022 ) <qparadox@hotmail.com> on Sunday December 15, 2002 @11:43PM (#4896201) Homepage
        I bought Santana's Shaman last month and it has the wonderful tracking technology built in. I was curious as to what the "Bandlink" thing did when I bought the cd (never heard of it before). Luckily, I went to their website first and saw the usage statistics crap and decided against installing it.

        I read part way through the EULA (which is apparently available on their website but I couldn't find it) but I didn't see anything about allowing them access to all information.

        I support the idea of adding content to cd's to make them more attractive to purchase ... but I don't want to have to give up personal privacy for those extras. If I just had to install and register I wouldn't mind, tracking is going too far IMHO.

        Since I couldn't find the EULA online (as promised) i've taken the liberty of posting it online (hopefully its not illegal but oh well).
        Its available here [www.sfu.ca]
        It weighs in at a hefty 12.8kB ... for text file!.
    • by 0x0d0a ( 568518 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:26PM (#4895333) Journal
      What sort of idiot has their firewall configured to let their CD player send packets out?

      What sort of idiot is using Windows? :-)
    • by Yakman ( 22964 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:28PM (#4895352) Homepage Journal
      Chances are this just does a HTTP request using the Internet Explorer ActiveX stuff therefore going through whatever proxy you've got configured on your PC as just another web request.

      Still, I wonder what other stuff they're sending apart from the listening habits.. maybe what kind of PC you're running and what software is installed to help determine what socio-economic group you fall into.

      Whatever, I listen to my CDs on a real CD player and rip them to MP3 if I want to listen on the PC.
      • I know that the fancy firewalls will actually do inspection of packets running through them to analyze protocols, etc. It seems like, increasingly, consumers need to have something to inspect everything leaving their computer to make sure that some spyware isn't stealing their information.

        The problem is that everything uses HTTP, so it's not like you can just filter out a port and be safe. I suppose you could filter out by network name, assuming you knew the likely targets information was to be sent to.
      • >>Chances are?

        That sort of speculation is pointless.

        What I want to know is if Zone Alarm et al catch this. Can someone recommend a particular title for me to try?

        Also, would it somehow be illegal for us to all submit 1000 plays of William Shatner's CD without actually owning or listening to the CD? At what point do such actions become a DOS attack? Falsification of this kind of data seems to be the best approach to fixing this problem.

    • by gasp ( 128583 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @10:43PM (#4895868)
      I would have modded this down as a troll. But I guess enough people here take this seriously as a question.

      I would wager most "idiots", if they have a firewall, have it configured to let their CD player send packets out. Last time I checked, there wasn't a "CD Player Snoop" protocol port that most firewalls are set to block by default.

      Any network with user clients playing CDs on their desktops is likely to allow at least port 80 pass outgoing. So if you are going to call administrators idiots for allowing users to talk to external web services, then so be it. (That's a whole other conversation.)

      Any personal local firewall product is also likely to be configured to allow at least port 80 pass outgoing. Now, I don't know what protocol/port this alleged nefarious thing uses, but it's a good bet it's something common and likely to pass through a firewall. Last time I looked, there were a plethora of sneaky things using HTTP besides browsers, usually for exactly this type of reason. Besides, why write your own net code when the OS already has it all built-in, ready to use, and unblocked by firewalls?
      • by liquidsin ( 398151 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @11:59PM (#4896299) Homepage
        I don't know about all windows firewall software, but Zone Alarm has a list of apps trusted to use network resources. So unless this thing is attaching itself to IE (or something else trusted) it would set off a red flag. It's not about what ports are allowed to be used, but what apps are allowed to use the network. But really, how many of your average computer users are running a decent firewall anyways?

        • by Samrobb ( 12731 ) on Monday December 16, 2002 @01:23AM (#4896663) Journal
          So unless this thing is attaching itself to IE (or something else trusted) it would set off a red flag.

          Having IE open a random URL is amazingly simple - the ShellExecute() or ShellExecuteEx() functions are fully capable of doing that. Heck, you can do it with a plain old batch file that executes "open explorer http://some.site/encoded_registration_information" .

          Even simpler would be to simply execute iexporer.exe directly, and then drive it with Win32 calls (or via DDE, if you feel masochistic).

          Bottom line: you, the user, let your web browser access URLs on your behalf all the time. Once you let someone execute random code on your machine, there are any number of ways they can make use of this capability to get information from your machine to their server, probably without any obvious notification of the event.

    • Well i do not consider myself an idiot.

      I even have a *dedicted* firewall here at home (kind of overkill but hey..).
      Like me, most people don't want to install proxies for every sort of software they use.
      And editing my rules just because some program or another wants to play with my ports
      (online gaming anyone?) is a waste of time IMO. Not to speak about searching the web on
      *which* ports/IPs i have to allow for the programs/games to work.

      So what i do is simply allow any traffic out (*in* is a different matter).
      And since i dont run Windows i really dont care if program X is calling home.

      If it's using port 80/tcp you don't have a chance to block it anyways (proxy or no proxy)
      and i bet most programs use 80/tcp.

      (Even if i'm not an idiot, english is not my native language. Feel free to correct any typo)
  • by shylock0 ( 561559 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:21PM (#4895287)
    Guess its another reason to run Linux or OS X... I seriously doubt the software works with any PC or any operating system. Still, it's a little freaky. Let's wait for the lawsuits to this one...
    • by KarmaPolice ( 212543 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:26PM (#4895331) Homepage
      Very interesting point. A new law here in Denmark makes it illegal to circumvent anti-piracy measures on CD's in order to rip them on your computer, even though cd-ripping is in fact legal!

      How long before it is illegal to "circumvent" this software by running a non-windows OS while playing CDs?
      • by Sly Mongoose ( 15286 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @10:24PM (#4895749) Homepage
        How long before it is illegal to "circumvent" this software by running a non-windows OS while playing CDs?

        What exactly is "software" anyway?

        An .EXE file isn't software as far as I'm concerned. It's just an organized collection of bits that serves no particular purpose under my preferred OS. You may call it software, but unless it is capable of being executed on my machine, that's only wishful thinking on your part, isn't it?

        So I don't see how I can be charged with failing to run the software on my non-Windows OS if, on said non-Windows OS, your software isn't actually software at all.....
  • HAH! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Exiler ( 589908 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:22PM (#4895288)
    And they said I was crazy to wrap my CD player in aluminum foil, bwhaha, I sure showed them! *rocks back and forth*
  • by Mordred ( 104619 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:22PM (#4895292) Homepage
    Maybe this way the record companies would stop forcing their crap on us and actually realize that people are listening to real non-manufactured music.


    On second thought, nevermind... that would never happen.


    Mordred

    • by Aloekak ( 172669 ) on Monday December 16, 2002 @12:35AM (#4896458) Homepage
      Now record companies can "reward" the people that buy the most music...

      *LATER, at some guys door step*

      -RIAA- Hi, we're the RIAA and know you have been a big supporter for us. As a token of our thanks, we'd like to offer you...
      (Suddenly sees stacks of backup copies of cd's, napster memorabilia, and a very blinky cable modem, etc)
      -RIAA- (cont.) life imprisonment.
      -GUY- Thanks!

      *GRIN* :D
  • hrm..... (Score:3, Funny)

    by rainman31415 ( 576575 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:22PM (#4895294)
    uh oh, i hope htey dont find out that i like madonna....


    bite me
    rainman
  • by Sean80 ( 567340 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:23PM (#4895301)
    You know what? I think the law should start considering my computer desktop and my network connection as my personal property. Want to display a popup on my desktop? Sure, $5 a time. Want to send some bits on my behalf? Sure, $1 million a time. If you try and steal advertising space on my desktop, or steal some of the bits that I own, then you go to jail.
    • by Jon-o ( 17981 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:40PM (#4895433) Homepage
      On the other hand, you DO control your computer, and can and SHOULD be careful about what you run on it. In this case, simply turning off the ridiculously stupid autorun when you put in CDs is enough to foil whatever the cd does when you insert it.

      Same goes with javascript and ad popups - just turn them off! It's your computer!

      Sure, there are conveniences that you lose in doing that, but many conveniences come with security risks and other annoyances. It's just like the security problems with Outlook autorunning attachments and scripts all the time - it's a ridiculous way of writing software, and never should have been included, and anyone with a clue either turns it all off or gets a different mail program. For some reason, people don't see javascript and autorun and similar things in the same way. I do.
      • by chipwich ( 131556 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @11:22PM (#4896091)
        But you're missing the point... As technology becomes ever more integrated with our lives, the option of "just turn it off" becomes increasingly less possible. No, not from a technical perspective, but from a *social* perspective.

        Sure, you could turn your cell phone off when you're not making a call so that telco's and gov can't triangulate your position, but do you?

        Sure, you could pay for everything in cash instead of credit to avoid an electronic trail, but do you?

        Sure, you could wait 10 minutes at the bridge instead of using a new electronic toll payment system, but do you?

        Smart agents and networked technologies like this erode our privacy. But do we get enough in return?

        How much would you sell *your* privacy for?
    • I've never had anyone else put a pop-up on my desktop. I have to run the javascript/ECMAscript that opens the window. I have to install the program to access the website, I have to (implicitely or explicitely) grant it permission to run Javascripts/ECMAscripts, I have to tell the program to visit the website with the script.

      You're trying to fine people for writing a script. Sounds like the DMCA to me. (Note: the DMCA is a bad thing.)

  • by NetDanzr ( 619387 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:23PM (#4895302)
    ...from all those players (including WinAmp) that analyze your CD and download the songlist for you? And this applies to 99% of retail CDs, not only those that are enabled by this technology.
  • by gasgesgos ( 603192 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:24PM (#4895306)
    this may not be all bad.. "Virtually any information you want to know about your fan or the quality of your release can be obtained." maybe they'll finally realize that everyone knows that the quality of their releases is mostly TERRIBLE... and that most people buy cd's for more than 1 song... this may actually lead to entire CD's being quality once again...
  • DOD? (Score:4, Funny)

    by Squareball ( 523165 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:24PM (#4895307)
    So does this info go to the DOD to see if you're a terrorist? God help me if they know that I like Avril Lavigne!
  • by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:24PM (#4895308)
    I use Tiny Personal Firewall 2.0 [tinysoftware.com] to stop this sort of crap under Windows. It'll block any application from 'reporting' back home via the internet. It's a pro at keeping apps like Real Player or guys like this from tattling. It's not open source, but the 2.0 version was freeware. I'm not sure about the 4.0 version.

    I strongly suspect that this won't even be an issue for most Linux users.
    • by T-Kir ( 597145 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:38PM (#4895419) Homepage

      Although I use the free ZoneAlarm.. I'm also pretty restrictive about what programs I allow access, i.e. why oh bloody why does WMP require internet access when playing a media file when all the required codecs are installed (pile of crap it is).

      But, the cynic in me keeps shouting out this idea... what is to stop the disc (well apart from disabling autoplay, unless MS has some other "backdoor" auto execution of something on new media) from opening up a browser window with a heavily customised piece of url every now and then? The default access permissions will allow any web browser to do it's stuff?

      Just food for thought.

      • by Bonker ( 243350 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @10:00PM (#4895584)
        Absolutely nothing.

        As a matter of fact, I've seen a few applications do just this to try to do 'instant' registration by using rundll32.exe to open a url that's a complex URL-encoded string with registration details.

        Imagine a URL like:

        http://www.company.com/registration.cgi?appname= Fo o&serialno=939848408930$userip=201.101.80.112

        etc...

        The one that comes to mind is PowerDVD. I've seen it do this on a coworkers PC.

        The solution to this is to deny your default browser's abilities to access the internet before installing a new app like this and then applying a deny rule against the IP or hostname it tries to access.
  • Solutions... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Mwongozi ( 176765 ) <slashthree AT davidglover DOT org> on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:24PM (#4895310) Homepage
    Buy a Mac? Use Linux?

    Uh... disable autoplay? Come on, not tricky, this one. :)
    • Re:Solutions... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by chunkwhite86 ( 593696 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:43PM (#4895450)
      Well sure, I'm certain most of the /. crowd is fully capable of these things, plus firewall and proxy configuration to block the offending packets.

      The real problem here is the general public who doesn't know any better, and even worse - doesn't care.

      In itself, knowing what CD tracks you listen to is obviously not a serious threat as far as privacy invasion goes but...

      Knowing what CD tracks you listen to and when, what groceries you buy and when, and videos you rent and when, who you call and when, where you go and when, and the list goes on and on. The sum of these things is just a bit too much information for corporate america to be keeping detailed track of.

      Perhaps you know how to disable most of these tracking systems, do you really want these big corporations watching the every move of your grandmother - who unlike you, doesnt know any better?
      • Re:Solutions... (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Phroggy ( 441 )
        Knowing what CD tracks you listen to and when, what groceries you buy and when, and videos you rent and when, who you call and when, where you go and when, and the list goes on and on. The sum of these things is just a bit too much information for corporate america to be keeping detailed track of.

        I think there's an important point here that you missed. Corporate America is not a single entity, and each of these things is not added to a sum. Sure, Safeway knows what kind of food I buy, and Blockbuster knows what videos I rent*, but there's no way to corrolate my food purchasing habits with my video rental habits. Even if Safeway and Blockbuster were both owned by the same parent company, they don't use the same database.

        The other important point is, if the only thing this information is being used for is gathering statistics to help the companies market more effectively, I don't care. They're not invading my life.

        * Not really; public libraries are wonderful things.
  • by Dr. Bent ( 533421 ) <ben&int,com> on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:25PM (#4895325) Homepage
    Does it transmit data when you rip a CD?
  • by shylock0 ( 561559 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:25PM (#4895329)
    First of all, my earlier post was right: Only works on Windows-Compatable PCs. Second, the privacy risk here isn't all that great:

    Bandlink Support

    Bandlink is designed to be run simply by inserting the CD into a Windows Compatible PC. The first time you insert the CD you will need to agree to the Bandlink User License and download the remaining program files. Bandlink should do the rest from then on.

    As you can see, there's a consumer agreement component here. It's not an unimpeded, unstoppable invasion of privacy, like what TiVO was doing. You have to agree as well. In which case, if you don't really care about your privacy (and you like push content, which some people do) it might actually be seen as pretty cool.

    • by doormat ( 63648 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:33PM (#4895382) Homepage Journal
      So what happens if I dont agree with their license? Do I not get to play the CD, or do they just not collect any information. Or do they use misleading language to trick the consusmer into hitting yes?
      • No, you do get to play the CD just fine...you just don't get to use their "extra" featuers.

        This is a pretty typical "we'll give you personalized content in exchange for personal data" deal. Hardly new and alarming.

    • It's not an unimpeded, unstoppable invasion of privacy, like what TiVO was doing.

      TiVo sends aggregate information. How is that an invasion of privacy?
  • Moot point (Score:3, Funny)

    by pctainto ( 325762 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:26PM (#4895334) Homepage
    I can't wait to get this technology with a "copy-protected" cd that won't play in computers. Unless they would do it to try to get information from the people who break the copy protection by using a sharpie...
  • by eric434 ( 161022 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:26PM (#4895340) Homepage
    ...if it can make your CD 'phone home' when playing it in a regular CD player (as mentioned in the article) that's not 'net connected!

    In any case, this is seriously scary. While I don't think most Slashdotites (being technically literate) will be affected, think of your mom, little sister or brother (if any), peers at school (if any) - all those people who click "OK" mindlessly whenever a dialog box pops up. It's THOSE people that this kind of stuff targets - because those people don't know better. The only way to stop it is to TELL THEM ABOUT IT. Get the word out. Post flyers. Put it in your sig. Whenever you fix someone's computer, tell them about the new 'spy' CDs while you're digging around inside their case or (more likely) plugging in their eithernet cable.

    I'm sure someone will come up with an anti-spy software for this soon, so give out as many copies (assuming the antispy software is freeware) as you can.

    Look how well it worked for CD copy protection, at least for the first wave. We can do this.
  • by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:29PM (#4895358) Homepage
    The fundamental principle underlying current privacy practices in the United States is: "It is perfectly acceptable for a company to violate your privacy so long as it is for the purpose of selling you things."

    Obviously companies believe this, and on present evidence I'd say that most consumers believe this, too.

  • by peculiarmethod ( 301094 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:30PM (#4895362) Journal
    You would think that if they use slashdot in order to find software and techniques that crack their attempts at 'protecting investments,' that by now they would understand that 'user profiling' is not generally liked or condoned by informed users.. in my humble opinion the modern day equivalent of 'racial profiling'.. the initsself modern term for a commonly rampant tendency for humans to generalize and profit of those generalization and the fears that follow. In this case, push technology is their answer to piracy finance losses. When I say loss I say it loosely and in a 'predicted forecasted maybe finacial gains report' kinda way. So, Why can't they get a grip and let customers come to them (with their supposedly superior product)? Why must they collect info on already paying customers when its been written as a disliked idea in popular science fiction (and general fiction/ some nonfiction) forever?

    I give up.. I'll never rant again

    HEY IN ANYONE HERE IS THINKING OF STARTING A COMPANY..

    respect privacy..

    nevermind.. I'm wasting my breathe.

    pm
  • by Tet ( 2721 ) <slashdot AT astradyne DOT co DOT uk> on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:32PM (#4895372) Homepage Journal
    There are few technical details on their web site, but it appears to just be a mixed mode (data and audio) CD, which when played using Bandlink's CD player software, will give the "benefits" described. Since I don't have any intention of using their software, it's not a problem. Until, of course, people start producing music that can only be played with their player. So far, record companies haven't been brave enough to test such a tactic in the market, although with copy protected CDs, they're getting awfully close to the line. The depressing thing is, I suspect the general public would just meekly go along with it :-(
  • by KanSer ( 558891 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:32PM (#4895377)
    Wow. How did this line of thinking go?

    RIAA Exec #1: "Let's start spying on people. It's not like they have a real reason to steal music anyways."

    RIAA Exec #2:"Yeah! And we can have pop-ups that tell them Big Brother is watching!"

    RIAA Exec #1:"No... That would be stupid... right?"

    RIAA Exec #2:"Perhaps... But surely this will make people want to buy music as opposed to downloading it. Right? Right?"

    RIAA Exec #1:"..."

    RIAA Exec #2:"RIGHT?!"

    RIAA Exec #1:"Oops..."

    Me: "Thanks guys. Now I have a morally sound reason to download Britney's newest album! MERRY CHRISTMAS!"
  • A little paranoid? (Score:5, Informative)

    by sfe_software ( 220870 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:34PM (#4895391) Homepage
    From the Bandlink web site:
    Installation:
    1. Insert you Bandlink CD into your Internet Connected PC. (Bandlink should autostart on Windows).

    2. Click "I Agree" to the Bandlink License and select "Connect" to install Bandlink.

    3. Bandlink should detect your CD, begin CD playback, and display artist content.

    So it's nothing more than some Auto-Run software. Which makes sense, I can't imagine any other way a CD would just magically contact a remote host.

    Solution? Disable auto-run (which I do anyway), or in this particular case, don't accept the license agreement...

    They also mention this a lot:
    There is no encryption, anti-piracy, or any other playback prevention capability within the software.

    My first thought was that they could easily combine so-called "copy protection" with phoning-home, but at least with Bandlink this is not the case.
  • by jsse ( 254124 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:35PM (#4895403) Homepage Journal
    CD Player listens to you!

    (At least people in Soviet Russia can grin on this)
  • by ToasterTester ( 95180 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:36PM (#4895407)
    Every time you use a credit card, grocery store discount card, write a check they put through a reader, login to something, and so on and so you're are being profiled. I used to work for the second largest ISP, and everything you connected all your connection attempts and other info was beening uploaded during the connection. Many of the major corporation now run software that monitors your calls, and internet activity. We are being monitored, counted, tracked, profiled, and categoried so much does it even matter. All this is just business, if get into all the tracking the goverment does, and you'll really feel like a specimen under a microscope.

    Actually in many way I feel there is safety in numbers. If they were only monitoring a we few people I would be nervous, but when the amount of data being collected we are people just numbers in a statisitc somewhere. Just another brick in the wall.
    • by base3 ( 539820 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @10:10PM (#4895644)
      If they were only monitoring a we few people I would be nervous, but when the amount of data being collected we are people just numbers in a statisitc somewhere.

      This is true so long as you're not an outlier. Consider some examples of things that could make you an outlier:

      • surfing sites in Arabic
      • using or downloading encryption software
      • consulting non-mainstream media sites
      • Reading the Poindexter bio at thememoryhole.org [thememoryhole.org]

      I'm sure with minimal effort, others can come up with even more chilling examples. When the government of our corporate republic can legally trawl everything looking for outliers, safety in numbers doesn't make me so comfortable.

  • Block DNS Call? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TrailerTrash ( 91309 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:40PM (#4895429)
    Can someone with one of these CD's report the addresses they try to write to, and we add a map to 127.0.0.0 in the HOSTS file? That works with all kinds of spyware (e.g., doubleclick, redsherriff).

    Better yet, can someone distribute a universal HOSTS file of all known spyware and update often? I'd pay for the privilege. AdAware may be a good vehicle.
  • by ender's_shadow ( 302302 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @09:47PM (#4895483) Homepage
    This is not a big deal now -- you have to install their software for the "feature" to work, etc. Therefore some of the people on this site are not concerned. After all, we listen to our cds on real cd players, and don't use their program, etc.

    The problem arrives when you must install this software to listen to the cd on your computer. Remember, copy protected cds are out there, and adding this layer wouldn't be very hard.

    The next step means loss of fair use. Maybe not for you or your friend who thought Napster was the greatest thing since a windows network on a university campus, but definitely for a lot of people.

    Over the last couple of years the fire has seemed to have burned out. We used to get pissed about this shit, and now the highest rated comments don't seem to care about it all. We're letting our guard down.
  • by SparkyMartin ( 206236 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @10:00PM (#4895577)
    If a company wants to collect this kind of information I'd support it as long as it was purely entirely 100% anonymous. But what guarantee do I have that just the CD, track, and time of playing are sent?

    How do you know that they aren't sending your IP address when they say they aren't? How do you know they aren't sending info about files in 'My Documents' or what files are listed in the 'add/remove' section of the registry? And don't tell me the privacy policy says they aren't so they aren't-privacy policies are changed more often than my underwear, and I change that everyday!

    I don't mean to get all Mulder here, but I am so tired of companies trying to sneek things past me in a 10 page licence agreement for free software that exceeds the length of my deed if I buy a $300000 house!
  • by bmetzler ( 12546 ) <bmetzlerNO@SPAMlive.com> on Sunday December 15, 2002 @10:51PM (#4895920) Homepage Journal
    It's very simple. If you opt-in you put the cd in your cd player, and let the company profile you. If you opt-out you pass up the cd and move along.

    But I'm all for tracking people's CD usage. That allows companies to market more targetable CD's. Instead of producing CD's that people buy because they "heard" they were good, and then listened to only a few times before getting disgusted with it, it lets them find out what music people listen to over and over again.

    -Brent
    • I'm all for tracking people's CD usage. That allows companies to market more targetable CD's. Instead of producing CD's that people buy because they "heard" they were good, and then listened to only a few times before getting disgusted with it, it lets them find out what music people listen to over and over again.
      Hmmm... Overlooked here is that their idea is to sell you many disposable CDs, not a few that you'll listen to over and over again.

      Lightbulbs aren't calibrated to maximize lifetime, but to make it as short as the market will bear.

  • by Oestergaard ( 3005 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @11:01PM (#4895976) Homepage
    I pop the CD in my box and play it. The CD is a "dead" media, it's not something that magically comes to life and starts transmitting information.

    Seriously, how stupid can people be? Ok, so the CD will buffer-overflow my player, and figure out how to access the outside world by executing it's malicious (processor and OS independent) code... You know what? No it won't!

    Shit like that doesn't just happen.

    So maybe *some* people run a player that facilitates said information gathering and transmission - that's their problem. Get a life, get a real player, get a real OS.

    But CD's magically coming to life and transmitting my listening habits (which I guess it stored in the big secret database facility on the moon, which is by the way run by aliens under contract with the government - which is again why they had to fake the moon landing, but that's another story) - no, please, just forget about it...
  • by wirelessbuzzers ( 552513 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @11:03PM (#4895982)
    This software, if it is decently written, looks like it isn't nearly as bad as the article says it is. First, as many have pointed out, you don't have to install it. But notice what it does in addition to sending out your personal information: it lets artists give you access to bonus tracks, artwork related to the music, tour info (and discounts), contests etc etc. It lets you chat (and synch music) with people listening to the same thing, which, although I wouldn't do it, would be considered a perk by a lot of listeners out there.

    Furthermore, their privacy policy says they will not hand out required personal info, but only aggregate info. They do say that they will use your personal info to "contact you about services in which you have expressed interest," which may or may not mean spam. Really, "expressed" should mean a check box, but you never know. It looks like a loophole though. And of course, the artists can require your personal info to log in to their sites, but you can just refuse to give it and not log in if you think that's a problem.

    All in all, I the article is bullshit. If this system is what it says it is, it's just an above-average media player that comes with the CD (although possibly at the cost of, say, a quarter to the buyer). Nothing to bitch about, invoking "privacy" and all that. If you're a privacy zealot, firewall it. If not, there are still a zillion other programs that are more likely to spy on you.
  • Buy A Stereo (Score:3, Informative)

    by reallocate ( 142797 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @11:15PM (#4896043)
    ...enough said.
  • privacy policy (Score:3, Informative)

    by ragnar ( 3268 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @11:37PM (#4896170) Homepage
    The company's privacy policy [bandlink.com] is listed on their site. From a quick read, the only thing that upsets me is that they pass along your info to the recording groups. It appears that only basic contact info is gathered and there is a fairly easy opt out approach. Of course, they can publish a rosy policy and blatantly ignore it.

    From what I can tell, they are trying to impress recording labels with an avenue to add value to the CD. I read a lot of ranting about how the music industry is clueless and could leverage the Internet better. Maybe this is a positive more in that direction. It is hard to tell.

    I'm a bit paranoid about it as well, but since I use Mac OS X I'll let the Windows people cut their teeth on this one.
  • by stoicfaux ( 466273 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @11:42PM (#4896190)
    I can imagine a few bored hacker types writing something to flood Bandlink with bogus data. "Wow, a million people a day are playing 'Baby Got Back' every hour on the hour!"

    I can imagine really, really bored hackers writing a virus to have infected computers spoof data. A new world-wide phenonmena: Polka Love songs!

  • by karl.auerbach ( 157250 ) on Sunday December 15, 2002 @11:49PM (#4896244) Homepage
    The best way to stop this kind of thing is to figure out what it is sending and then to generate reports about things we are not listening to. It will make the marketing reports useless.
  • by raistphrk ( 203742 ) on Monday December 16, 2002 @12:35AM (#4896461)
    This list came from PeerGuardian's blocking list. I'm guessing the BSA IP block at the end. If you really want to keep from reporting data to said parties, just add these (and whatever other beneficiaries of your private data) to your iptables, ipfilter, ZoneAlarm, Tiny, etc. blocked zones. Note that, if for any reason, you want to go to these parties' websites, you won't be able to; your firewall will block access.

    Or, to be perfectly safe, you could borrow a page from our current administration's sex ed book and abstain from downloading. ...but it just feels so good!

    OverPeer:65.174.255.255
    OverPeer:65.160.0.0-65. 160.127.255
    Ranger:216.122.0.0-216.122.255.255
    R anger:204.92.244.0-204.92.244.255
    MediaForce:65.1 92.0.0-65.192.0.255
    MediaForce:65.223.0.0-65.223. 255.255
    MediaForce:4.43.96.0-4.43.96.255
    MediaDe fender:66.79.0.0-66.79.255.255
    RIAA:208.225.90.0- 208.225.90.255
    RIAA:12.150.191.0-12.150.191.255
    MPAA:63.199.57.96-63.199.57.128
    MPAA:64.166.187.1 28-64.166.187.192
    MPAA:198.70.114.0-198.70.114.25 5
    MPAA:209.67.0.0-209.67.255.255
    NetPD:207.155.1 28.0-207.155.255.255
    NetPD:128.241.0.0-128.241.25 5.255
    UnknownC&DCop:64.106.170.128-64.106.170.192
    BayTSP:209.204.128.0-209.204.191.255
    Vidius:207 .155.128.0-207.155.255.255
    GAIN(spyware):64.94.89 .0-64.94.89.255
    GAINCME(spyware):66.35.247.0-66.3 5.247.255
    GAINCME(spyware):66.35.229.0-66.35.229. 255
    MediaDefender:64.225.292.0-64.225.292.127
    RI AA:208.192.0.0-208.192.255.255
    Xupiter.com:63.236 .32.50
    Xupiter.com(mirror):63.208.235.30
    BSA (?) 208.121.215.0-208.121.215.255 (Not sure)
  • CDs are SHIT (Score:3, Interesting)

    by rice_burners_suck ( 243660 ) on Monday December 16, 2002 @12:58AM (#4896552)
    That's why I listen to the RADIO. Forget this alleged "anti-piracy" BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU garbage.

    Besides, I don't take any of that garbage. Both of my home networks, which are physically separated for paranoia purposes, must pass through a two-stage firewall system powered by four separate OpenBSD boxen (two for each network's firewall). The configuration of these firewalls has evolved over three years' time, but suffice it to say that I feel relatively comfortable knowing that any site that is not specifically white-listed will NOT get accessed by any of my machines, nor will any whitelisted machines get accessed for protocols which I have not specifically allowed. The advantage here is that NO software is going to report JACK SCHITT about my behavior to NO marketer.

    One final note: I am a marketer by profession. B2B, specifically. And I refuse to employ any big-brother techniques in my work. This may be more difficult when marketing to enormous herds of stupid, technologically illiterate masses of IDIOTS, where you need to be stupid like that to make any sales. But I don't give a damn. I'm doing my part to avoid world-wide slavery by not doing that garbage myself.

    WAR IS PEACE.
    FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.
    IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

  • Not new (Score:3, Informative)

    by ucblockhead ( 63650 ) on Monday December 16, 2002 @01:05AM (#4896584) Homepage Journal
    In Winamp:

    Go to Options - Preferences - Setup. The last checkbox is "Allow Winamp to report basic, anonymous program usage information".

    Most mp3 players have something like this, to a greater or lesser extent.

    I'm also amazed that the allegedly technical slashdot audience has not yet figured out that in order for these "bandlink" CDs to work, the user would need to install special software on their machine. I mean, read the fucking site. These "bandlink" CDs don't do squat unless the user specially and deliberately installs the software.

    It is very clear that this is not some sort of behind the seems privacy invasion but an above board trading of information for privacy. (Which, indeed, has issues of its own, but...) Other companies (Real, Musicmatch, etc.) do worse right now.

  • by dkoyanagi ( 222827 ) on Monday December 16, 2002 @01:24AM (#4896669)
    the CD player knows too much...

For God's sake, stop researching for a while and begin to think!

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