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GNOME GUI

Gnumeric 1.0 Has Arrived 261

Posted by timothy from the good-gnews dept.
plastercast writes: "Gnumeric 1.0 is now out, which makes the Gnome desktop even more 1.0-tastic, with the recent milestones of Galeon and Evolution. ... For those that do not know, Gnumeric is a spreadsheet program with the ability to include all sorts of neat bonobo objects, and also can create graphs through guppi, the Gnome graping program. Enjoy!" Update: 12/31 20:08 GMT by T : That's "graphing." Graping is for the stroke of twelve. Update: 12/31 21:01 GMT by T : Jody Goldberg writes "You folks posted the story a touch too quickly. The release announcement just went out 5 minutes ago."
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Gnumeric 1.0 Has Arrived More

Gnumeric 1.0 Has Arrived

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  • Cool, Excel is done (Score:3, Funny)

    by georgeha ( 43752 ) on Monday December 31, 2001 @03:56PM (#2768364) Homepage
    but when, when, when is there going to be a PowerPoint option for Gnome? Otherwise how can the managers be convinved to leave MS-Orifice?

  • Hmmmm.... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Hercynium ( 237328 )
    I think we're beginning to gnotice a pattern...

    OTOH, it seems that the pace of GNOME development has been quickening as of late. Now, I haven't reviewed the API/Object Model for several months, but at last glance I was beginning to notice some real cohesion in the various components. For a long time I have preferred working on KDE's code, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's time to take another glance at good ol' GNOME...
    • Ya, I know it' dumb to reply to myself, but after noticing the "replies under my threshold" it seems I wasn't specific enough... I was referring to the recent code freeze of GNOME2 developer beta, and remarking on the subsequent releases of several of the larger application projects, one of which is now Gnumeric.
  • I suspect you mean guppi [gnome.org] the graphing program, not the graping [emory.edu] program that Emory University offers.
  • Now is your chance to get graped by Guppi! Sounds kinda erotic.
  • Maybe I'm earning my nickname here, but I saw only a version 0.99 release candidate 2...should I just round up and shut up or am I missing something here?

  • Bill: Check it out! (Score:5, Funny)

    by copponex ( 13876 ) on Monday December 31, 2001 @04:03PM (#2768394) Homepage
    Ted: What?
    Bill: The Gnome graping program. The little guys make wine and even do your taxes! Open source booze, dude! Excellent!
    Ted: Dude, he's talking about math.
    Bill: Bogus.

  • very nice milestone, a lot of bug fixes. The excel support was the big selling point for me.
  • I had my wife using gnumeric long ago but when
    it couldn't read in one of her more complicated
    excel spread sheets worth a crap, she just dual
    booted like she'd done previously. I haven't
    touched gnumeric since. How has this improved?

    By "complicated" I mean LOTS of borders, patterns,
    formulas, graphs, etc.--not just two lists of
    numbers....

    Peace.
    • That depends on what version you were using before. :-)

      Frankly, if it was 'long ago' then gnumeric is well overdue for another look. Test it out on that troublesome spreadsheet and judge for yourself.

      I've followed it on-and-off for a while. The 0.6x series wasn't good enough (stability mostly) for what I needed but starting with 0.7x I found it was up to the task to handle my spreadsheets (though they're not as complex as yours by the sound of it).

      I noticed the Excel import as being one of the items that improved the most (after stability) in the recent releases. There were some concerns about reliability for WRITING excel format but I believe these are now also taken care of on the whole.

    • Re:how good is the Excel import? (Score:4, Funny)

      by madenosine ( 199677 ) on Monday December 31, 2001 @04:26PM (#2768501)
      Well, to find out, you can simply look at the changelog...

      1.0:
      -changed i++ to ++i (Miguel de Icaza)

      0.99.0
      -changed i=i+1 to i++ (Miguel de Icaza)

      0.76:
      -the darned thing looks better as i=i+1 (Miguel de Icaza)

      0.75:
      -changed i++ to i+=1 (Miguel de Icaza)

      0.74:
      -actually, i liked i++ (Miguel de Icaza)

      0.73:
      -changed i+=1 to i=i+1 (Miguel de Icaza)

      (...)

      As you can see, gnumeric has made great progress. I highly reccomend it over KSpread to any self-respecting linux user.
    • Well, I have yet to find any spreadsheet program on Linux that will read in my invoice in MS Excel format. I used the MS Excel invoice template to build the invoice.

      Gnumeric 0.7 crashes when I try to print or print preview the file, KSpread just won't read the file, and StarOffice won't save the file after I change it! I have tried various methods of saving as different formats, and even totally rebuilding my invoice (not based on any MS crap). I have yet to find a useful tool or method for printing a pretty invoice under Linux.

      Also, "save as Gnumeric XML file format" produces a binary file. I've never seen a binary XML file before...
      • the xml file is gzip'ed
      • Also, "save as Gnumeric XML file format" produces a binary file. I've never seen a binary XML file before...

        That "binary XML file" is just a compressed XML file.
        Try this:

        zcat binary_XML_file | less
      • I should point out again (since several people who replied didn't read the post very well before they went off) that Gnumeric _does not_ crash when I load the file; it crashes when I try to print or print preview the file. What I didn't specify is that it crashes for me when I print or print preview any file that I load. I'm sure that it must be some configuration issue on my PC, but I have no idea what it could be.

        So, my problem with Gnumeric is not that it won't load the file. The problem is that it crashes when I load any file then try to print or print preview. Strangely enough, it doesn't crash when I print or print preview a file that I created by hand - only files that I load from disk.
      • I'd also like to commend the gnumeric folks on their dedication to producing a stable and useful product. One of the developers has already contacted me asking for the file that crashed Gnumeric :)

        There was no such file (see my other reply), but it's nice that they're so aggressive looking for ways to improve their product.
      • >> Also, "save as Gnumeric XML file format" produces a binary file. I've never seen a binary XML file before...

        On some versions of gnumeric it saves it as a gzip'd binary file.
    • I don't know what version you tried but we should be damn near pixel perfect for borders, patterns, formats, content and values. Sheet objects like buttons and drawings still need work.
  • The main market for spread sheet apps should be accounting etc.
    Does anyone use linux spreadsheet apps for such professional purposes ?
    Managing private stuff doesn't count.
    Would be interesting to know if linux does penetrate such conservative/ non-IT markets.
    • i do use linux professionally - not in spreadsheet and regular office stuff but neither on the server side.
      i am doing graphical design since 4 years now and worked a long time on mac's in graphical school. i just cant dig this hillarious expensive pieces of designer trash - i embraced linux cause it lets you do stuff with tools that all those monkeys in DKNY suits don't have. their not better - but different as is linux. its not better - its different. the philosophy rox - you wont be able to do stuff in linux as the big guys do - the only question is should you do a graphic design the photoshop way (talking about filters etc.).
      if i look in magazine X today i can definetly estimate why an ad or a picture looks like that because its influenced to 80% what the software is able to do and 20% what the artists imagination is / ok to be correct the better the artist the higher the percentage of his imagination - but thats not reality.

      machines influence the way we think - the only question is: you want to think microsoft or GPL ?
    • Several of the core Gnumeric developers use it for real work, and based on our bug reports so do many other people. Most of us are working on the project because we are so familiar with the pain and the power of MS Excel (tm). When it works it is a hugely powerful piece of work, but when it doesn't you are up a creek. The 1.0 version of Gnumeric will not replace MS Excel (tm) for a power user. However, it should be sufficient for most day to day users. The goal is to produce a platform that will be able to do all the things we're used to, and hopefully we're on the right track.
  • Personally, it feels like Gnome is waisting a bunch of time on apps like Gnumeric when there are very well developed apps that do this available already. If gnome would focus on the GUI and creating great GUI system management tools, that would help it's desktop much more than a *very* light version of Excell!
    • What kind of argument is that? They are not wasting there time developing a gnome based spreadsheet application. Microsoft Excel doesn't even run on Linux natively.

      GUI management tools are only part of the desktop puzzle, great apps like Gnumeric are the other.
      • But you can open Excel, Word & Powerpoint Docs in OpenOffice. With the new versions it has become very mature and frankly it seems like trying to continue to develop a disparate range of products when resources are limited is foolish.

        I reiterate - Gnome should focus on the core of what it adds the Linux desktop. Those that were contributing to office apps should rather consider contributing the a leader in office apps like open office.
    • Gnumeric started 3.5 years ago well before StarOffice began its transition to OpenSource. Our goal has always been to produce a the best possible spreadsheet, and we chose the GNOME project as our toolkit. I've looked at the source for kspread and attempted to borrow code from OpenCalc and have concluded that while they each have their strengths, Gnumeric's architecture feels like it is a better basis for development. Try loading large or complicated workbooks into either and compare for yourself.

      The GNOME project has a well developed and evolving toolkit specificly _because_ of projects like Gnumeric, Evolution and Galeon. A toolkit without developers does not progress very quickly.
  • I will be curious to see when 1.0 makes it onto Red Carpet. The last two release candidates, 0.99 and 0.99.1, never did. Since I would bet the majority of Ximian users get their updates via Red Carpet, that means a large chunk of their user base never saw the preview releases.

    The only reason I bring this up is Ximian just recently announced their for-fee Red Carpet fast subscription service [slashdot.org]. As I recall, a common theme in that discussion was questions regarding how up to date (not up2date!) the Red Carpet channels would be maintained. This doesn't seem like a great start.
  • Have there been any advances in curve fitting? This is the one thing that I use excel for, and one of the few things that keep me from defaulting linux on bootup. (That, and CAD)

    • Re:Curve fitting? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by Linuxathome ( 242573 )
      Ahhh...you've asked a very good question. There are very few applications out there that can do quick and easy nonlinear regression analysis. As a biologist, I'm not interested in the math and the complicated equations modelling the best fit curve. All I'm interested in is the curve fit and the extrapolation of data after the fit. And so it would be very helpful if there were graphical applications that catered to me (and the thousands of other biologists out there like me). As I said, there are only a few applications out there that do this sufficiently--not even Excel can do a decent job. Yeah sure, maybe MatLab or Mathematica can do what I want, but they're not catered to the life scientist. One good app is GraphPad Prism, whose developer created a great website for biologists at Curvefit.com [curvefit.com] describing the differences between the historical linear regression analysis and the (much better) non-linear regression analysis. There is yet another piece of software whose name eludes me at the moment. The problem with GraphPad Prism and software like it is their hefty price--even with the student discount, the software costs over $300, which is way over my price-range.

      Now, if Gnumeric can only fill this void or any other linux app for that matter....I can see on the Gnumeric webpage screenshots section that one of the tools listed is "Regression" analysis, but I venture to say that it probably means linear regression analysis. Would anyone out there know if non-linear regression analysis will be implemented (if it's not already)--as described at curvefit.com? There is a huge potential market of scientists out there that is yet untapped. I think this is where linux can definitely beat out Windows--that is, if there was a suite of good, affordable, consistent software out there for the scientist (well, I mean the life scientists), more and more of them would migrate to linux rather than use Windows. Just my 2 cents.

    • The best curve-fitting software that I've ever used is a shareware program called MacCurveFit [krs.com.au]: very fast, a simple interface for entering arbitrary equations and initial parameters, and one of the few programs that returns the error in each parameter of the fit (from the covariance matrix...much simpler to interpret than R^2). Anyone interested in writing a free software equivalent would do well to look at its example.
  • Is it me (probably) but is the 1.0 version not on the web site?

  • Neat. This makes, what 47 different spread sheets for Unix/Linux now? KOffice, StarOffice, GnomeOffice, ApplixWare, Corels Office Suite, etc. All from different code bases? Funny, I thought that aside from all of the "Software should be free" propaganda, the point of open source software was be able to modify others code to suit your needs instead of reinventing the wheel every time. I realize not all of the above are open source, but still. Couldn't say, Gnome Office and KOffice share big chunks of their code? Like, say the parts that they use to handle the Microsoft formats? A great deal of time and energy is nessecary to figure them out, why replicate it 5 times?
    • The one day I don't have mod points. Mod the parent up alot. Biggest problem with open source is not user interface issues or complexity its the insane amount of duplication of effort for the programs that people actually use or would want to use.
      • When you can't get the best programmer in each field to design/program each element there's bound to be duplication as new versions are written that behave (either in function or interface) in what is percieved to be a superior way. If evolution works for software then the best code will eventually be borrowed for other projects or just generally used more. In other words, if several different wheels are invented simultaneously across the globe, the optimal wheel is more likely to be found.

        Also remember that the software is not the only output of programming. There's also the additional experience and skills gained by the programmer.

      • Re:Neat. How many of these do we really need? (Score:5, Insightful)

        by Uruk ( 4907 ) on Monday December 31, 2001 @05:22PM (#2768684)
        People see duplication of effort and they assume that it must be a bad thing, but it's not.

        Thinking that it is a bad thing is based on the assumption that these people who are "reinventing the wheel" would have worked on a more established project of the same type if they hadn't done what they did, which isn't true. These coders are all voluteers, and they ONLY hack on things that are INTERESTING to them.

        Besides, a lot of the failed projects of today are going to be the start of tomorrow's best hackers. Don't bitch about what people choose to do for free.

    • Re:Neat. How many of these do we really need? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      If we all wanted the same code base we would be using Microsoft.

      Anyway, how do you know that they replicate efforts on features like importing and exporting Microsoft formats? Have you looked at the code bases for all these and found completely different code? I think not.
      • Assuming that the source for Microsoft Office was open, the logical thing to do would be to use their code to import and export these formats. After all, in the absence of a published standard, whatever these output is the standard for what a word Document is. If the goal is compatibility theres no better way to get it than using their code.
        A more logical way to do this would be something like the relationship between Mozilla, Galeon and Netscape - you have 3 different browsers, but with a great deal of code sharing which avoids a lot labor spent reinventing the wheel yet again.
      • they do have completely different code, basically. Everything is different enough to be able to be able to copyleft it themselves. :)

        There are a few common dependancies... low-level image/video/etc format drivers mostly... like libjpeg.

    • Looking at human behavior, one must draw the conclusion that people will always take a homogenous group and turn it into a heterogeneous group. It doesn't seem to matter what the subject is, this seems to be the pattern. People almost never unify things. Given that, one would expect there to be many projects with the same focus.

      It looks like duplication of effort is a part of human nature. Of course, in any case, my effort is worth more than your effort. Or, wanting another saying, "if you want something done right, you have to do it yourself." Sad, but true via empirical evidence.
      • KOffice — Runs on qt
      • StarOffice — Closed source.
      • GnomeOffice — Okay, by saying this, you're proving your lack of knowledge. Gnumeric _is_ part of GnomeOffice!
      • ApplixWare — Closed source
      • Corels Office Suite — Not supported anymore, is it?
      What I'm getting at is a couple items. First off, Gnumeric has been around longer than a lot of them. If you read the release announcement which was _just_ sent, you'd learn that Gnumeric has been around for 3.5 years. Second, it's _the_ spreadsheet program which didn't have a history of non-GPL issues. KSpread is relativly new. And anyways, that has the history with qt not being GPL compliant. Anyways, if you look at Gnumeric, it's one of the more mature of the spreadsheet applications.

      • Re:Neat. How many of these do we really need? (Score:1, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward

        Interesting. A GPL'd library (Qt) isn't GPL compliant. Very interesting indeed. I'm sure Trolltech would love to hear about this.


        That's one more reason why I don't use GNOME or WindowMaker anymore - all their supporters seem to have nothing better to do than bash the alternatives. I'm sure they're very nice technically, despite their C origins, but that's no reason to flame the good people at KDE at every opportunity.

    • It's duplication of effort, but not of result (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Crag ( 18776 ) on Monday December 31, 2001 @05:28PM (#2768705)
      Each of the office suits you name has benefits and drawbacks of its own. If all the developers of all those projects were going to try to colaborate on The One True Suite, they'd have to set aside their differences and make comprimises. The result would be mediocre and would squash the individual efforts.

      If all the kernel hackers in the world tried to colaborate on The One True Kernel, their results would be mediocre as well.

      When all the best musicians get together to make an album you get Hands Across America and The Three Tenors, not Mozart or Van Halen. (Your tastes may vary, clearly.)

      I was going to mark this post 'redundant', since this issue comes up in every thread, but I thought it more constructive to explain in words, rather than a moderation: it is false to call the efforts of these various projects wasted, since each developer works towards whatever is important to him or her. Their efforst would only truely be wasted if they all came up with the same result (identical software AND developer experience).
      • Yes indeed, this is a valid argument ! but the problem is that al these softwares will never have a critical mass of users, and this is what really count. This is why Microsoft is so hard to displace. Yes it's nice to have many open source suites, or desktops (KDE or Gnome) but the real problem is the "fragmentation" of the user base, so in the end all these programs might stay marginal, even though they might be excellent. We all know that the best software is not always the winner.

      • Mostly agreed, but there are a lot of components in these systems that could be shared. The import/export filters, for example, could construct a common in-memory structure that each application knows to deal with. The math functions in the different spreadsheets could probably be shared if they could agree on a common API.

        I think the argument that competition leads to innovation is true of new or innovative features, but a lot of features are just check-box items that are well understood and that everybody needs.

        I actually tried a few days ago to see if I could steal some code from OpenOffice and turn it into a reusable library, but it's not easy. There are interdependancies everywhere. The same is probably true of the other projects. Modularity needs to be built into the design.

    • Unix wouldn't be as good as it is without having been reimplemented so many times. These spreadsheets will undoubtedly borrow from and compete with one another. When the dust settles, there will be a great SS app.

      As for waste, that's too bad, but it won't happen any other way. The import code, being dependent on the internals, probably won't transfer anyhow.
    • Why can't everyone quit whining when two people decide to do the same thing without giving each other all their code? I bet if linux was started last year everyone would say "what a waste! why doesn't he go work on OpenBSD instead?". If you're really that worried about the success of these projects, why don't YOU go work on one of them instead of trying to dictate what other people should do (when they are already giving away their work, too)?

  • It's the apps! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by GRH ( 16141 ) on Monday December 31, 2001 @04:28PM (#2768505)
    While I would love to see a mass migration to Linux, it won't happen without the apps. Granted, this is hardly a revelation.

    However, what if the Windows desktop domination can be chipped away at by utilizing <flamesuit> Linux apps compiled for Windows </flamesuit>?

    Conceivably, a number of folks who currently use Excel could probably work just as well in a Windows version of Gnumeric (or pick your Open Source equivalent).

    Over time, as people migrate from Windows apps to Linux for Windows apps, they may eventually reach the point where they ask "why am I still running Windows?" and move to Linux.

    Although Gnumeric may not be the best example of this, one of the touted advantages of GUI tookits for X are their cross-platform availablility (I'm specifically taking about Qt, and yes, I know Gnumeric is not Qt).

    Lowering the transistional pain to small steps seems the only way I can see Linux eventually having a presence on the desktop.

    Anybody else think this makes sense, or am I having a lapse of reason on the last day of 2001?

    Happy New Year,
    Greg
    • One of the problems with that model is:

      "How do you get people to try the non-MS software?"

      Pricing alone won't, because:

      1. Many get Office bundled with a PC, so they never see the cost; or

      2. Large companies have site licenses, and a few non-MS apps will not impact that cost - but will add to the support costs because now you have to support 2 different apps; and

      3. You have to overcome the idea that MS (in theory) tests its codes so bizzare computational errors won't creep in - who tests Gnome? X thousands of users isn't a good answer - because tehre is no one to call or blame when there are problems.

      Linux software needs to offer compelling, non-cost, advantages to get people to switch. For example, instead of Office's collection of programs that let you link data togeteher, how about one data store that you apply views to i.e. spreadsheet, presentation, diagram; so when you change a value, it changes everywhere - because it's all the same data.

      Chasing MS is a loosing proposition - it's too hard to overcome their entrenched position with something that's almost as good - even if it's "free."

      • Re:It's the apps! (Score:3, Insightful)

        by lkaos ( 187507 )
        Well, I have to disagree with you on some parts of what you are saying.

        My largest problem with MS is not that they do not produce low-cost or even free software, but rather they that produce high-cost low-quality software.

        A good example of where the quality of open source software overrides the lack of support is with GCC. GCC is commonly used in production environments over other Unix compilers because it is such a better compiler than most other compilers.

        The fact that it's free also means that you can always get the latest version without having to relicense or upgrade. That's a big advantage for most projects.

        For many people who are forced to do spreadsheets and get tired of using Excel because of constant bugs, having an alternative will make a big difference. Good software has a tendency to spread like a virus too and before you know it, all projects are using that software and here some company has come along and repackaged that open source software with support so that everyone is happy.

        And I've seen this happen with GCC so it does happen.

        • Re:It's the apps! (Score:2, Interesting)

          by psamuels ( 64397 )
          A good example of where the quality of open source software overrides the lack of support is with GCC. GCC is commonly used in production environments over other Unix compilers because it is such a better compiler than most other compilers.

          A bit OT, but oh well. What you describe was certainly true in the past - vendor compilers were such a mixed bag that GCC has extensive release notes detailing how to bootstrap it with various other compilers without tripping numerous known bugs. And of course many vendors bundle a sub-optimal C compiler with the OS and make you pay extra for their Real Thing.

          But gcc is not the Holy Grail of code generation. Not anymore. IBM and CodeWarrior both beat it senseless on PowerPC; Intel has something that apparently does better on x86, and a lot better on Itanium; DEC has kicked its butt on Alpha for years.

          (Of course, gcc probably has more CPU backends than any other C compiler out there - but within a single architecture it often is not the best.)

          Having said that, I still use gcc in preference to any other compiler - for several reasons. First, it's a known quantity, and if I want to use gcc extensions (varargs macros are probably my favorite) I can. Its warnings and errors are not objectively the clearest in the industry, but to me they are because I'm so used to them. I know the compiler will do exactly the same thing on AIX as it does on Linux and HP-UX, within reason, and I can skip the licensing issues (the HP-UX bundled compiler is lousy, and AIX doesn't bundle one at all). gcc doesn't crash (well, it did once, in 1993, and I sent off a bug report) and its code generation is good enough not to be an issue for me.

          The fact that it's free also means that you can always get the latest version without having to relicense or upgrade.

          Oh yeah, that too. I'm the Licensing Czar around here (nobody else has the moral fibre / anal retention to care enough, I think) and the reduced hassle of free software is great.

          • Re:It's the apps! (Score:3, Interesting)

            by lkaos ( 187507 )
            But gcc is not the Holy Grail of code generation. Not anymore. IBM and CodeWarrior both beat it senseless on PowerPC; Intel has something that apparently does better on x86, and a lot better on Itanium; DEC has kicked its butt on Alpha for years.

            (Of course, gcc probably has more CPU backends than any other C compiler out there - but within a single architecture it often is not the best.)

            Well, that's really the trade off one makes. The difference is speed of generated code is not extreme though and in comparision with other main stream compilers (what would /. be without bashing MS) such as MSVC, it just blows the competition away.

            GCC's nice because it tends to be more standards compliant then alot of compilers. It's funny that you mention the HP-UX compiler because that is what we were formerly using and when we started a new project, I insisted on using a version of GCC-2.95.2 that just happened to be laying around.

            I can't even begin to tell you how much hassle it saved. Pair it with GDB and the other utilities (such as gprof) and it's just incredible.

            The best part is, to get the GCC installed on a machine, all it takes is a phone call since there are no licensing issues. I definitely have to give you some credit if you take care of Licensing, because that is definitely a bitch. I would do anything to avoid having to deal with it.

            Unfortunately, I have to say I have encountered quite a bit of bugs in GCC :) That's ok though, it's not with the C compiler it's with the C++ compiler and the C++ specs suck so much, how can anyone blame GCC for messing up a bit ;-)
        • Let's burn some of my karma foopies on this...

          My largest problem with MS is not that they do not produce low-cost or even free software, but rather they that produce high-cost low-quality software.
          Yadda Yadda!. So they produce low quality software? Which titles? MS Excel? SQL Server? Excel is a top notch program, which is by far the most usable and bugless application in the MS Office suit.

          A good example of where the quality of open source software overrides the lack of support is with GCC. GCC is commonly used in production environments over other Unix compilers because it is such a better compiler than most other compilers.
          This one really made me laugh :) Ask the KDE guys how great the C++ compiler is in GCC. True, it's free and fully functional, but please... so much better? Oh, don't feel obligated to provide facts to proof your point!

      • Re:It's the apps! (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Jody Goldberg ( 61349 )
        While your goal is noble I think you miss an important point. People are only willing to switch to something new IF the transition is relatively painless. It is not an accident that MS Excel (tm) includes lots of old and ignored lotus-1-2-3 compatibility utilities. We can have the most fantastic spreadsheet in history, and it would still be largely ignored unless there is an easy way to convert XL files to/from Gnumeric. Which is pretty much the plan. Once we have a spreadsheet that can interact well enough with XL people can extend it to add all the lovely innovations they can think of. Remember the MS mantra 'Embrace, Extend, ...'
        • I agree that a seamless transition is necessary *before* people will switch from Excel to something else; but seamless file transfer is not enough to *get* someone to switch.

          In general, I think the trying to drive Linux adoption by mimicing MS is a losing proposition because:

          MS keeps moving the target so you're always copying what they did last year;

          People will stick with the market leader, if only because they are the market leader, which means unless a newcomer offers some compelling advantage they will be limited to niche markets.

          In addiotion:

          MS is very good at convincing decion makers that picking MS will not result in a career limiting event, if only because *everyone* uses MS products;

          They have alot of margin they can cut to drop prices foe any wavering major accounts; and

          Decision makers tend only to be zealots fo rtheir products, not something they purchase as a tool to put on everyone desk.

          Which is why I think Linux has a far better shot in the handheld market than in the desktop:

          The leader is currently experience financial problems;

          The switching costs for users is relatively low, since they only need a PDA to synch with the desktop, and a new PDA doesn't require dumping expensive desktop apps and most PDA apps are cheap, compared to desktop apps;

          The learning curve for most PDA apps is small;

          Palm and the Mac provide some ideas for an elegent UI which could be adopted for a Linux based PDA;

          Idependent developers could actually make some money developing apps while the diehards would port the game machine emulators;

          MS, despite repeated attempts, still hasn't established an overwhelming position.
    • I'll agree with you, since I was just thinking about this the other day.

      I was even debating whether or not the open source community should/would add a module to the precompiled binaries that acts as a nag screen (like shareware stuff) to compel the user to migrate to linux or to obtain a compiler and compile the source code themselves (minus the nag module). Of course you wouldn't want the nag screen to harass the user based on time, more like the winzip products that nag you on startup but don't disable the softwares feature or pop back up while your uncompressing your pr0n movie you just downloaded ;)

      just my 2cents, (and there goes my 2 karma points too)
    • Well, GTK for Windows [gimp.org] is available, as well as the free version of QT for Windows [trolltech.com].

      I bet a lot of other Linux apps could easily be ported to Windows, and this would probably increase Linux's popularity quite a bit. It sounds like Gnumeric uses more of gnome that just gtk, though.

    • Re:It's the apps! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      "why am I still running Windows?"

      No they won't ask themselves that, the average user doesn't really know what an operating system is or how it differs from a program like Excel or Word.

      Putting a Linux app on windows won't do jack for Linux. Its time to face the facts, there are very, very few people who care what OS they are using.

      For every 1 slashdot geek who is fighting the holy war vs Microsoft, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of "regular" people who don't give a rip about how, what, or why. A computer to them is a magic box that does stuff. How it does it or what OS it is running on is not important, users want one big thing, ease of use.

      In the mind of users, easy is AOL and Microsoft, which in some cases is hard to argue, though AOL doesn't really offer much in the way of ease of used like they once did.

      Good applications running on Windows may be successes, but don't expect people to jump from something easy and comfortable to something that is much more difficult(you know and version of *nix is, be honest). Frankly, they just don't care what OS they are running.

      Peace

    • Also it makes it easier to exchange files between Windows and Linux. Instead of worrying about working with excel you can ask your windows friends to download Gnumeric for windows to see your files.

      Abiword [abisource.com] works with both Windows and Linux The windows version is just a 4.3 MB download
  • Looks like guppi is a Graping program... accourding to this search at ask.com [ask.com]

    From what i gather hear.. its the same as graphing! :)

  • Release notes (Score:4, Informative)

    by Jody Goldberg ( 61349 ) <jody@nOSpAM.gnome.org> on Monday December 31, 2001 @05:15PM (#2768665) Homepage
    The release notes would be useful. [gnome.org]
  • I use Gnumeric to calculate profits from option trading with Datek. Have been since about 0.6.1 or so. Works great!

    And soon AbiWord 1.0 will be released.

    I use KDE for my desktop, but Gnumeric and AbiWord are two awesome, lightweight programs. They give you just what you need to get your job done, without a lot of memory hogging crap.

    My only problem is that you need Guppi 4.0 for graphing. I currently have Guppi 0.35 installed, but when I try to upgrade to 0.4:

    [root@eclipse micah]# rpm -Uvh Guppi*
    error: failed dependencies:
    libguppidata.so.11 is needed by gnucash-1.6.2-1
    libguppidataui.so.11 is needed by gnucash-1.6.2-1
    libguppimath.so.11 is needed by gnucash-1.6.2-1
    libguppiplot.so.11 is needed by gnucash-1.6.2-1
    libguppispecfns.so.11 is needed by gnucash-1.6.2-1
    libguppistat.so.11 is needed by gnucash-1.6.2-1
    libguppitank.so.11 is needed by gnucash-1.6.2-1
    libguppiuseful.so.11 is needed by gnucash-1.6.2-1

    So is there a way to have both Guppi versions co-existing? I really prefer to stick with RPMs. Thanks

  • This is simply a "verbatum" copy of Excel. There's nothing innovative here.

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