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Games Entertainment

Playstation 2 Outsells both Xbox and Gamecube 459

Posted by CmdrTaco from the cant-say-i'm-surprised dept.
Laurens writes "Despite various claims of both Microsoft and Nintendo, this article by the Los Angeles Times has the first independant salesfigures on all 3 next-gen consoles. And it seems the good ol' PS2 sold best this holiday season." I'm an hour into FFX and don't foresee turning my PS2 off much this week. Can't talk now. Must see Lord of the Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?
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Playstation 2 Outsells both Xbox and Gamecube More

Playstation 2 Outsells both Xbox and Gamecube

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  • It's been out longer (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Apreche ( 239272 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:09AM (#2725566) Homepage Journal
    The only reason the GameCube hasn't sold more than the PS2 is because the PS2 has been out longer. Around here in Rochester, and at home in Connecticut, you're lucky if you find a GameCube in store. PS2s are a plenty because Sony's been making them for a long time, and there are lots of game choices. The PS2 is good, I'm not putting it down. But look where the PS2 is now, then see where the GameCube is in how many months.

    • Re:It's been out longer (Score:4, Troll)

      by sh00z ( 206503 ) <sh00z.yahoo@com> on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:16AM (#2725599) Journal
      Don't assume that local availability equates to a national shortage. Personally, I've been haunting the Houston game stores in search of Dreamcast bargains [slashdot.org], and with the exception of Thanksgiving weekend, every store has been well-stocked with both Game Cubes and XBoxen. I've seen people put them back on the shelf due to the shortage of games to actually play on these consoles. That is steering folks to the PS2.
      • Another consideration might be that anyone that has a PS1, can STILL play their PS1 games on a PS2. Having been poor for quite a while I guess I missed out on having a Play Station, but I'm actually finding those old PS1 games to be a lot of fun (where I can still buy them). The only other system I've ever seen backwards compatable is the Sega Genesis, where you can buy an addon to play older MasterSystem (like anyone had one of those ;) games. If the PS3 lets me play PS2 (and even better along with PS1) games, then it's going to be no contest that I will buy a PS3 over a Nintendo Game Globe, and a Microsoft XP Box .NET
        • Well, I don't have a PS2 (I'm still waiting for the first price drop, which I expect may happen next month), but I did get a GC on the first morning that Fry's had them for sale.

          But lately I've been snagging all the $10 PS1 games (and a few DC games as well) that look interesting. And I'm still only playing the one that started this whole quest for $10 games last month, something called "Torneko The Last Hope", which basically is a NetHack-style dungeon crawl.

          So not only does the PS2 have a library of pretty good PS2 games, but there's a ton of $10 PS1 games that it'll play, too. The only other system that can say that is Game Boy Advance. (IIRC, the only other radical-new-design system with true non-adapter backwards compatiblity was the 7800, but Atari killed it by stupidly warehousing it for two years, giving time for the NES take over.)

    • True, but... (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Hnice ( 60994 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:16AM (#2725603) Homepage
      To say "it's been out longer" as though that's not a good reason to buy a console misses the point. It would be more meaningful to say, "it's been sucessful after a year and change". At this time last year, dreamcast had been out longer than PS2, by about the same amount, but had few big games on the horizon, and had been losing 3d parties left and right. And you can talk about the reasons for this, but the fact is that, not only has sony got a lead, they've made good given that lead -- just as the new systems hit the market, you get GTA3, FFX, MGS2, and all sorts of other games that may or may not be associated with acronyms.

      What i think it *is* fair to say is that the fact that PS2 is outselling either of the 2 new systems isn't symptomatic of the futures of either of those systems. Nintendo always has a slow start, but they're in it for the long haul, and they've shown a consistent ability to milk their franchises. And Microsoft, well, whatever, they'll probably just release the next version of office only for xbox so all their corporate customers have to buy them, so they're ensured of success.

      • Re:True, but... (Score:2, Interesting)

        by Schnapple ( 262314 )
        Actually, last Christmas was the most successful Christmas Dreamcast ever had - they sold a ton of games and systems, plus they had a year's back catalog to work with. However they still lost millions and ditched the DC.

        Now I'm not saying Sony's going to ditch the PS2 or that the PS2 is going into the toilet but it's true that this sort of survey is pointless at this point in time. All consoles look good their second Christmas out (except Nintendo 64, which launched in 1996, had little in the 1997 season but kicked ass in 1998 with Zelda).

        • Re:True, but... (Score:3, Interesting)

          by Hnice ( 60994 )
          First, and I'm a fairly rabid Sega fan, "the most sucessful Christmas Dreamcast ever had" is true, but it hurts. You're right, of course -- it's just that at the end of the day this rings hollow given the hindsight that we've got.

          Second, exactly. The only distinction that I would make is that the PS2's 2d Christmas is turning out to be just vast -- the software sales, which is, of course, where the loot is, are about 5:1 compared to console sales right now. That's HUGE.

          Third, I'll tell you this -- XBox sales were off last week something like 85 % from their first week numbers. *That* is a powerful figure -- satiate the fanboys, give the rest of us enough time to lust after halo but realize that there's not much else, and what have you got? An installed base of a million, compared to ps2's 9 million -- and ps1's 45 million domestically?

          I'm not a sony fan, or hater. But they own the console space. And as you point out, the big N doesn't care either way, becase of Zelda and Mario and Metroid and Pokemon.

          I do wish i could play some halo, tho....

          Hey, also, if you want an indication of how things are going, go check ebay -- it's very interesting. xbox's are going for anywhere from $260 - $320. that's less than retail in many cases. uh oh! for comparison, and i haven't done any rigorous analysis, cubes seem to be going for retail + 0 to 20 %.

          On this topic, and now i'm wandering, is anyone doing statistical analysis with regards to modeling ebay bidding over time? I'm thinking about it a lot lately.

    • Re:It's been out longer (Score:4, Flamebait)

      by cwebster ( 100824 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:16AM (#2725605)
      boy, it shows you took the time to read the article, the numbers discussed in the article were constrained to the following dats

      nov 11 - dec 8 : PSX2
      nov 15 - dec 8 : XBOX
      nov 18 - dec 8 : GC

      using only the sales between those dates, the figures were genreated, and while PSX2 has a whole week more time than the GC, the numbers indicate that had the times been equal, Xbox would have come out on top, followed by psx2, then GC.

      i agree though (as does the article), initial sales are nothing, and the psx2 comparision to these 2 launches doesnt mean much, lets look at sales a year and a half from now and see how they are doing.

      • Re:It's been out longer (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Hnice ( 60994 )
        Not to trump this with outside info -- you're right about the differing periods -- but sales of XBox, at least, have fallen off precipitously since week 1. Not sure of %, but I'm sure we could hunt this down. Conversely, PS2 sales are up over the same period. So if we were to extrapolate on this basis, and not merely apply a multiplier of 5/4 or whatever, the discrepancy in ps2's favor is actually greater than there #s show.

    • Re:It's been out longer (Score:2, Informative)

      by sph ( 35491 )
      The only reason the GameCube hasn't sold more than the PS2 is because the PS2 has been out longer.

      Except of course the actual statistics mentioned in the article were only from Nov 11th:

      PS2 Nov 11th - Dec 8th - 962k
      Xbox Nov 15th (release) - Dec 8th - 934k
      NGC Nov 18th (release) - Dec 8th - 602k

      So, with per day sales on this four-or-so-week period Xbox is a winner. Not as clearly as one would expect though, in my opinion PS2 is doing surprisingly well for a machine that's been available for over a year already.

      The reason for PS2 still doing this well compared to brand new consoles is probably that now PS2 *finally* has those killer games that actually make people go out and buy the console. Final Fantasy X and Metal Gear Solid 2 have really boosted the PS2 sales over the past few months.
    • Congratulations on not reading the article and using flawed reasoning. The article explicitly states the sales figures are for 11 November to 8 December, not since launch.

      Additionally, the fact that it's been out for a year means that most "hardcore" gamers who are the early adopters of systems already have playstation 2s, as well as most of the kids who've had a birthday this year. The fact that they're still selling like hell just shows how good the PS2 is as a console.

    • You'd think that the PS2 would have lost its flash since the other consoles have newer technology. Technology moves quickly (think about computers one year ago..)

      But it seems to be about the games, quantity and quality that is driving sales.

      Also the figures are for the holiday shopinging season 2002. In total units shipped sony is way ahead.

      Competition is good though.. Better systems and games no matter what unit you choose.

  • Figures are WAY off.. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Considering Nintendo sold their entire 750,000 first shipment in the FIRST WEEK of release. That article is stating they only sold 602,000 in *4* weeks which is WAY WAY off.

    This article doesn't count major retail stores like Walmart and is basically disregarded in the retail community because it is totally off. Nintendo broke ALL console sales records and currently leads all the consoles regardless what others may believe. They have told their investors this is their STRONGEST year EVER - Meaning they're doing better than when the original NES came out, which is saying a LOT.

    • Re:Figures are WAY off.. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Junks Jerzey ( 54586 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:36AM (#2725706)
      Considering Nintendo sold their entire 750,000 first shipment in the FIRST WEEK of release. That article is stating they only sold 602,000 in *4* weeks which is WAY WAY off.

      Are you a distributor or are you simply a rabid fanboy? "Sold" has multiple meanings. It could mean that Nintendo shipped that many to units to retailers. Or it could mean that Nintendo has sold that many units _from_ retailers. The classic mistake is looking at the first of these numbers ("sell-in") and equating it with actual sales ("sell-through"). If a company quickly shoots out a press release with high numbers on it, it's usually sell-in.
      • Try and buy a GameCube, and then tell us that the two numbers aren't the same.
        • Try and buy a GameCube, and then tell us that the two numbers aren't the same.

          Where I live, you can just walk into any store and buy one. There's no shortage.

        • Wally World (Score:3, Informative)

          by David Wong ( 199703 )

          Nintendo insists those are sell-through numbers. But who can trust them? They claim their initial shipment of 700,000 (150,000 of which went to rental places like Blockbuster, display kiosks, and the Mexican and Canadian market) sold out in the first two weeks and that they have sold - to consumers - more than 800,000 total.

          If that's true then that is the fastest Nintendo has ever gotten rid of 800,000 TV consoles. If it's true.

          Let me ask you this. Nintendo complained when NPD released their figures (which mirrored the article exactly, making me think they're using the same research) that they didn't take department stores like Wal-Mart and K-Mart into account, that they only surveyed speciality retailers like Babbages and Electronics Boutique and whatnot, and that Wal-Mart is in fact the biggest seller of GameCubes.

          I have no way of knowing if that really matters or if that would change the numbers, but I can say that while my local Target, Babbages, and EB have been sold out of GC's for weeks, they keep reappearing on the shelves of my local Wal-Mart (as in, Nintendo is making Wal-Mart a priority for shipments).
      • I think that there was a typo someplace in that article. At first, it says Nintendo sold 602,000 consoles in the time period, but later it quotes the Nintendo spokesperson as saying that "We've sold over 800,000 GameCubes in the U.S. to date, and we will ship 1.3 million units by Christmas"

        Just from what I've seen at the retailers, and Nintendo's earlier 750,000 quote, I'm taking a guess that they have acutally sold 802,000 during the first few weeks.

  • MS Quote (Score:5, Funny)

    by MeerCat ( 5914 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:12AM (#2725584) Homepage
    Microsoft spokesman David Hufford said, "Xbox has caught fire since launch."

    Not exactly the best thought-out sound-bite to be offered to the press....

    T
  • I know a bunch of people are going to talk about how PS2's are in stores, so I have my one-up story.

    At a best buy in my area, there is about an 8x8 at the base, 6 foot high display of stacked PS2s. I was thinking they might be empty boxes, but who would want to post on /. about that? ;) That's a lot of PS2s.

  • It's not really surprising... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by darylp ( 41915 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:13AM (#2725588)
    Sony's marketroids have ALWAYS given them the advantage in the console arena, even when facing off against superior consoles.

    Of course, it kinda helps that the PS2 catalogue is HUGE, compared to the relatively meagre selection offered by the other two.

    Backwards compatibility has its advantages, in terms of brand loyalty. Nintendo had the right idea by making the Game Boy range backwards compatible. Suddenly all the money and time invested in the previous console's games hasn't wasted. That's a huge selling point, especially when parents are deciding what to buy their offspring.

    • Re:It's not really surprising... (Score:5, Informative)

      by killmenow ( 184444 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:32AM (#2725685)

      Backwards compatibility has its advantages
      My sister bought a PS2 for her sons for two reasons alone (In order of importance):

      1) It will still play all their existing PS1 games (a large catalog)
      2) It plays DVDs out of the box.

      The fact that it plays PS1 games is a HUGE factor in its success, IMHO. My other sister (who's kids have an N64) are not getting a new console this year because of the investment required to build up a new library of games. With the PS2, you get the best of both worlds: ability to start building up your new game library, while preserving your existing one.
      • I fully agree with the above sentiment. For years I was a poor college student unable to afford the latest and greatest consoles (Like the Playstation). That didn't stop me from playing games (and liking them) on friends/roommates machines or at conventions. Now that I'm finally out in the real world, I could finally afford to buy the console I coveted for years, but it is even better since I can buy a PS2 and get access to all of the old games in addition to the new ones. Throw in the fact that it is a DVD player and has component out and I was sold.

        I don't care if it is harder to program for than the other systems, that doesn't seem to be slowing down the developers much so far. Even if the game developers declare it too difficult to program for, I'll rest assured that there are already way more games available for it than I'll ever find time to play.

        Just my $0.02
      • Kind of funny and ironic to see this sort of thing work against Microsoft.

  • The biggest complaint about the PS2... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tsar ( 536185 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:16AM (#2725600) Homepage Journal
    ...at least as far as I know, is that it's hard to program for [gamingfreaks.net]. However, a quick survey of my friends who've bought PS2's indicates that very few of them are actually programming on theirs. Looks like shrinkwrapped software is the order of the day. <g>

    Actually, it's the low-level programming that makes coding for the PS2 an order of magnitude more complex than the other boxes--but that also opens up at least an order of magnitude more potential, as any code hacker knows. The question of "which box should we target?" is usually answered with a simple number, and it looks like PS2 has a lock on that for the forseeable future.

    • Duh. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Big Dogs Cock ( 539391 )
      Programming anything good or original is hard. That's the way it is. Use the same tools/techniques/engines/libraries as everyone else and you get the same result.

  • Final Fantasy (Score:4, Funny)

    by Etriaph ( 16235 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:16AM (#2725601)
    The sales of the PS2 should probably thank Squaresoft for Final Fantasy X. There are video games I play, and those that I follow. Anything Final Fantasy is played by me, within 3 weeks of it's release. I will buy a console if it has Squaresoft making FF games for it.

    There's also The Legend of Zelda. Most people probably don't follow this as much as I do, but I bought the N64 for The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. I'm thankful they released a second one for the system (even though the sounds the villagers make in the game are horrible) so it was more than worth my money. The only other game I own for it is Episode I Racer which came with the console.

    Why are they selling so many? Final Fantasy owns you that's why. :)

    • Do you have a WonderSwan yet? Is the FF2 port to that in english?

      Hopefully Ban-Dai will release their handheld in the US so we can finally have a handheld that's supported by Square in the US again. Besides, it looks way cooler then GBA.

  • Nifty (Score:2, Interesting)

    by rmadmin ( 532701 )
    I've seen a few people saying 'Well, X-box isn't going to sell because its a Microsoft product' and I've heard a few say 'It WILL sell because it is microsoft' And when I was in the store last week shopping for my son, I realized something. Consumers usually don't really care about this, they care about price, because after all, they don't play it, their kids do. On top of this, kids could almost give a shit who its made by, just as long as mom and dad will buy it, their friends think its the shit, and the marketing is in the right direction. Its pretty obvious if you sit in a walmart this time of year and listen to all the little kiddies go, 'But brian has an X-box!!!!!' or 'I don't want that stupid X-box, brian has one and it sucks, I want a PS2!'

    On the other hand, you have the older people that like to play them.. like myself. But thats a different story. =)

  • Incomplete data (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Paladine97 ( 467512 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:19AM (#2725619) Homepage
    The data used is over ten days old and doesn't include sales figures from Walmart, Nintendo's leading retailer. So the numbers aren't even close to being correct.
  • Console wars are fought over who can get the best games that appeal to the masses out there. I've been seeing ads for NFL 2K2 and NBA 2K2, which are both being developed for all platforms by Sega. Sega wants to reach as many customers as possible with this strategy, but I feel that the real winner will be the platform with exclusive rights to a game that appeals to the masses. Sony has Squaresoft and the Final Fantasy series of games, and Nintendo has all of it's trademarked characters appearing on the Game Cube and Gameboy Advance. I haven't been following the X-Box too closely, so I do not know what's exclusive there.

  • Ps2 plays ps1 games/DVD so many users just upgrade (Score:5, Informative)

    by acomj ( 20611 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:21AM (#2725632) Homepage
    The PS2 has the advantage that it plays ps1 games and DVD's.

    Also if you have a ps1 what unit are you going to get? PS1 games don't look great but many are more fun than there ps2 conterparts and they are cheap.

    Also more and more and better games are starting to appear for the PS2 MGS2, FF etc...

    Plus the fact the sony appears to be able to churn them out quicker than demand doesn't hurt. That cube seems hard to find.

  • don't forget ... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by karb ( 66692 )
    I don't know if still holds true ... but I know the X-Box is sold at a loss. The PS2 used to be sold at a loss. But I've heard (again, no hard figures, sorry) that Nintendo insists on making money on everything they sell, even consoles. So, even if nintendo perpetually has the third best sales, they can still flourish, as long as their sales are decent.

    But, the games really make the difference, and I'm sure that the PS2 is killing on them this christmas :)

  • Give it a year... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by aoty ( 533561 ) <.aoty. .at. .yahoo.com.> on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:30AM (#2725673)
    To the PS2's credit, there is quite a nifty selection of games to choose from in Sony-land. GTA3, GT3, Devil May Cry, etc. But this is a far cry from this time last year, when most of the PS2 games were mediocre at best. Give the Gamecube a year to pick up steam.
    • Give the Gamecube a year to pick up steam.

      <dr_evil_voice>How about NO, Scott?</dr_evil_voice>

      Seriously, why should I have to wait an entire year to see if GameCube 'picks up steam' when I can be playing the entire back catalogue of PS1 games, brand-new PS2 games, *and* DVDs now, on a box that's way easier to find?

      Besides, those 'Help me, I'm trapped in a cube' commercials are freakin' annoying. :)

  • Well Duh! (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Cyberllama ( 113628 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @10:34AM (#2725693)
    How could either of them possibly outsell the PlayStation 2 when neither had shipped enough units to even compete. Both Gamecube and Xbox are sold out, they couldn't have possibly sold more than they did. To make it seem as if they lost some sort of non-existant competetion is rather silly. Remember the first month of the PS2? I bet lots of consoles outsold it that month. Playstation One, probably even the old N64. It's not becuase they were better or anything, it's simply that Sony shipped fewer PS2's that month than most consoles happen to sell in an average month.

    If there were more Xbox's/Gamecubes to sell (enough to meet current demand; there are a few of each still availalbe, but only in those god-forsaken bundles, and almost only entirely through the internet), I'm sure they would have probably handily outsold the PS2.

    • Re:Well Duh! (Score:2, Insightful)

      by kyrre ( 197103 )
      Om the other hand. If people really want Xbox or Gamecube they would wait for more units to ship wouldn't they? Playstation 2 has the advantage of being old and available. Those other to have the advantage of being new and cool.
      • People are waiting, you just don't see those people in the figures. Those people won't be seen in the figures until more units ship. An increase in the shipments of GC & XBox would not have reduced the sales of PS2. It would only have increased sales of GC & XBox (perhaps there would be a minor reduction in PS2 sales for the *handful* of people who only bought one because they didn't want to wait).
    • If there were more Xbox's/Gamecubes to sell (enough to meet current demand; there are a few of each still availalbe, but only in those god-forsaken bundles, and almost only entirely through the internet), I'm sure they would have probably handily outsold the PS2.

      Sold out? Huh? Maybe where you live. I walked into EB at Valley Fair Mall in Santa Clara (or is it San Jose), they had a stack of them and the gamecubes. I plopped down my $500 or so, picked up my Xbox, three games, extra gamepad and walked out. No waiting, no lines, no hassle. Am I lucky or something???

  • But they find out what went wrong on version 1 and dominate in later versions.
  • Sony sold 962,000 PlayStation 2 consoles between Nov. 11 and Dec. 8, according to CSFB estimates based on figures compiled by research firm NPDFunworld. Microsoft, which launched Xbox on Nov. 15, sold 934,000 consoles. The GameCube, introduced Nov. 18, sold 602,000.

    So let me get this straight, in this random, particular time period, Sony outsold GameCube and Xbox. Hmmm. First of all, it seems like the article is referring to actual sales to individuals, not sales to vendors. I'm not 100% sure but I've always thought the companies make their statements by how many items they have sold to vendors, because once the vendor buys it from Nintendo, or Microsoft, or Sony, then they've made their money.

    Secondly, the most unfair thing about this article is the time period. I hate both Microsoft and their inferior Xbox, but I have to come to it's defense here, the study says Sony outsold Microsoft when in fact, according to their own results, Microsoft sold 28,000 less consoles, yet had 4 less days than Sony to do so. So basically, the Xbox was selling for 6/7 of the time the PS2 was, yet it sold at a rate of 38,917 boxes per day as compared to 34,357 PS2s per day.

    Lastly, as for Nintendo's case, I just flat out don't believe those numbers. I talked to the local Best Buy and also to a few electronics stores in the mall just out of curiosity, and they say they've sold more Gamecubes than anything, but they've also had more shipments of Gamecubes, so they haven't sold out. This really all is just nitt-picking though because the fact of the matter is that PS2 is crap. They put together a pile of crap as fast as possible and released it first, and it's earned a lot of money, but it's still crap. The Xbox is made by Microsoft, that's all I have to say to know that it's a big pile of horse dung. So, we're left with GameCube, and despite it's "kiddy" reputation, I find it to be the best game console. In time, that's what consumers will see, and the numbers will show it. Right now articles like this are just acting as tools of the establishment.
    • I've never ever fired a shot in a games war, or a console war, but you comments really pulled my strings.

      This really all is just nitt-picking though because the fact of the matter is that PS2 is crap

      If this isn't flamebait, I don't know what is. EVERYBODY knows, including you, that a console is as good as its games. And even if it wasn't, you can't say the PS2 is crap without providing your arguments and backing up your claims with hard evidence.

      I waited and waited and waited to buy a next generation console, mainly because I wanted to make the right decision. Then the xbox and GC came out. I played most available games on both systems for at least an hour each, then I went out and got me a PS2. Why? It's the games stupid!

      Basically your comments tell me that either you're 12 and don't quite remember the very many instances in the past where the console with the best specs was not the one everybody wanted, thus nobody wrote good games for it, or you're a complete troll and just want to make people react to your comments.

      My personal experience, and a very subjective one I might add, is that technically the best consoles are the xbox, the GC and the PS2 in that order, but as far as games, the best console is the PS2, then the Xbox and then the GC.

      Here are some facts for you: The Xbox and the GC both have slightly better graphics than the PS2. the PS2 has more good games than the Xbox and GC combined. And the lineup for the first half of next year, at least, doesn't seem to reverse the course
      • You are forgetting a *huge* advantage that the PS2 has over the other two: maturity of games. Developers have had an additional year to develop games.

        Right now the PS2 has better games, but that is because developers have had that year to get used to the system and it abilities. Give the Xbox and Gamecube 6 months and then compare games.

        For now, I would agree with you. Having played all three, I like the games on the PS2 the best (GTA3 rocks), but I realize that there are going to be a great number of games released for the other two in the coming months that might change that opinion.

    • To me the most shocking part of the article is the horrifying rate at which the game industry is growing (did they say 36% this year!?!?!)

      What that means for the console race... well once upon a time selling 700,000 consoles in 3 weeks was something to smile about... now that puts you in a distant third place. Even with the pie split three ways, the individual pieces are now bigger than the whole pie was ten years ago.

      So there is plenty of room for three players. If in the long run Nintendo "only" sells 12 million GameCubes as opposed to Microsoft's 18 million and Sony's 23 million, I think there will be plenty of profit to be had.

      So to ask which console will "win" the console wars is like asking which VCR manufacturer will "win" the VCR wars. The market is too big for that now. In fact, come 2005 I wouldn't be shocked to find a couple of more players in the ring...

      • I have friends who think that... who say that regardless of my recent GameCube purchase, two years from now I'll buy an X-Box. Not because I want to.. but becaue I'll have to.

        He figures by then MS will have offered Square 100 million to make X-Box exclusives... they'll be the only Console with the Matrix 2 game... they'll buy EA... Nintendo will dump the GC to become an X-Box software developer.

        I personally think Microsoft is big, but not that big... this is a massive market and even a player with the weight of MicroSoft will have trouble just buying up all of Main street.

        But at the same time I'm shocked at the way they've thrown around cash to muscle (or buy) their way into this market. $500 million buys a hell of a lot of marketing... and it's no coincidence that my local software retailer had a HUGE X-Box display and kiosk, and only a tiny poster advertising GameCube in back of the store.

        Money and influence. But still...
    • I smell a PC gamer who is pissed at the concoles stealing his platforms thunder. No worries man, the PC game scene will *always* be inifintly superior to the concole game scene:

      1) PC games & hardware upgrades are cheaper then concoles (assuming you would need some kind of crappy computer for work or school anyway).

      2) PCs are inherently better suited to online gaming communities (no changing the CD to use the web browser; no special hardware for cool new features like voice over IP carried with a game).

      3) The PCs get both the "cool new ideas" (Doom, Descent, WarCraft, Sims, Ultima Online) and the best versions available (Counter Strike, WarCraft 3, etc.)

      Now, Nintendo is unique because they actually manage to beat the PC at #3 with a few games per concole. There will be a number of rich geeks who just gota have one or two Nintendo games. Who gives a shit about Halo when you got Counter Strike?

      Finally, the PS2 is really designed to capture the "we can not afford a computer or DVD player" market, so it should continue to sell well. I have no idea why the Xbox is targeted at this market and has video hardware which requires and HDTV to see the effects.
    • This "random, particular time period" that you criticize the facts on happens to cover a majority of the Christmas shopping season, which, in the US, is the time of year when retailers do a large percentage of their yearly sales. Considering the target demographic for game consoles, these numbers probably represent at least 25-30% of the sales for the year.
    • This really all is just nitt-picking though because the fact of the matter is that PS2 is crap. They put together a pile of crap as fast as possible and released it first, and it's earned a lot of money, but it's still crap. The Xbox is made by Microsoft, that's all I have to say to know that it's a big pile of horse dung. So, we're left with GameCube, and despite it's "kiddy" reputation, I find it to be the best game console.

      I have about the same sentiments as yours as the reason I got a GC upon release, though you've said it funnier than I would. (The first system ever that I've cared to get on the release date, and I've been playing console games since the RCA Studio II, which even pre-dates the Atari 2600! But now that I think about it, I did get the N64 in its first month or two, before they became E-Bay bait along with Elmo, and with the GC I knew the availability window was much smaller.) But I'll have to say that even if the PS2 is crap (IMHO primarily because the hardware is as hard as the Jaguar to push to its limits), it's crap that runs games from what is clearly the most successful console game system in history, and it's an entry-level DVD player, too, just as the pre-recorded video market is switching to DVD.

      As to the sold-out nature of the GC, while I was shopping for $10 PS1 closeout games about two or three weeks ago, one parent with a kid remarked that GC and XBox were impossible to find. (Of course I'm sure he didn't try that hard either.)

    • [...] the fact of the matter is that PS2 is crap. [...] The Xbox is made by Microsoft, that's all I have to say to know that it's a big pile of horse dung. So, we're left with GameCube, [...], I find it to be the best game console.

      Wow - now that is delusional fanaticism at its finest. You discount the PS2 because it was first to market. You discount the XBox because Microsoft made it. And you exalt the GameCube as the best console out there.

      For the price, the GameCube is pretty cool. I'll give you that. But the XBox is undeniably the most capable hardware out there (unless you're some sort of anti-MS zealot). Of course, being the best hardware isn't everything. It doesn't have anywhere near as many games out there as the PS2, and might not ever.

      You have got to be the only person out there claiming that the GameCube is a better console than the XBox. The games for GameCube might be better - maybe. But the hardware (and OS) for the XBox thoroughly wallops the PS2 and the GameCube.
      • No, the GCN is better. The Xbox is PC hardware thrown together in an atrocity of a device jerry-rigged to play video games. The Gamecube is designed from a chip level up as a strictly game playing machine. That's right, no DVD's, no external apps, just games, and it does it damn well.

  • Right now, They have the lead because of better supply of the consoles... If it's not on the shelf, you can't buy it.

    Once Nintendo and MS catch-up on the supply... Sony will likely drop the price to make it more attractive vs. the other consoles, especially MS's.

  • Can't talk now. Must see Lord of the Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?

    Personally, I think a GREAT time to have been alive would have been when debbie harry was at her finest!

    Free Love!
  • And it seems the good ol' PS2 sold best this holiday season



    I've also read quite a few articles stating that the Xbox and dreamcast have sold out. If that's true, then perhaps some people are buying a PS2 instead of dreamcast or Xbox because they're AVAILABLE. Also, since stocks may be exhausted, it makes demand seem larger, but sales seem smaller.

  • Why do fans of a given system feel the need to freak out when there's even a hint that their pet system may not be the number one selling system? They foam at the mouth and rant and rave about stats and 'they're only selling more of the other system because blah blah blah'.

    Can't you just enjoy your system? I've never understood die hard system loyalty anyways- all that matters to me is the games.

    For this year, I think you would be very, very hard pressed to try and say that any other system other than Playstation2 has the best & most games.

    Will this still be the same next year? Possibly, but I'm pretty sure that we will see X-Box with a respectable library of excellent games (even if MS has to purchase game companies out right to get 'em), and Gamecube will have a larger library than N64 enjoyed, though I think the big N will still rely on its solid core of 'kids' games and branding to earn them most of their money. PS2 should continue to be quite strong, and there are probably tricks in that screwy little EE to be dug up yet- though I would expect that many games may be starting to look a bit greyer when compared to its competition.

    Interestingly though- there seems to be a whole lot of cross release games this time around- which may give glimpses of the various systems' underlying strengths and weaknesses.

    But really lose the foaming frenzying fanboy fixation on your favorite platform and just play the games that you can get!
    • True, for some it's just petty dick measuring (my console is kicking your console's ass!!)

      But for me I keep a close eye on the sales because I know the software makers won't support a failed machine. Thus, I could end up with a Saturn/Dreamcast where there are some great games for two years and then the system is dead. Bad deal for those who spent hundreds on the system.

      No, if I'm gonna buy a Gamecube, I want to be SURE that good games will still be coming out for Christmas 2004. I want that return on my investment. I don't want another 3DO.

      So, yeah, I watch to make sure the console is selling and people are supporting it. If the N64 had died right away, sure I still would have gotten Goldeneye... but would I have gotten Perfect Dark or Majora's Mask? I don't think so. The user base wouldn't have been big enough to make it worth the risk. And if the N64 had had playstation-like sales, wouldn't Nintendo have been more willing to do another Mario game for it? And wouldn't Square have been more tempted to make games for it?

  • An interesting article/rant... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Monte ( 48723 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @11:00AM (#2725808)
    ...can be found here [actsofgord.com] concerning the Gamecube/Xbox/PS2 sales. The gist is that the PS2 will outsell all the others primarily because of the massive software base (remember that it plays PS1 games as well), and developers will be skittish to plunge resources into "the next new thing" when there's a well established audience for the PS2.

    It's humorously written - and check out the rest of the site, it's a hoot.
  • Yeah, terrorists are slamming crowded jetliners into crowded skyscrapers, some nut is sending deadly diseases in the mail, the economy is in a recession that's putting thousands of our fellow geeks out of work, and Americans are dying in a war, but at least we've got neat video games.
  • Wait. According to previous articles, MS had only managed to build about 400,000 XBoxen, while GameCube built about twice as many. So how could they sell 934,000 XBoxen?

    Are they counting preorders, perhaps?
  • ...but not with the GameCube. According to the big N the Gameboy Advance has sold 20% more units in that span than any of the hook-to-a-TV consoles.

    That would indicate about 1.2 million in sales (if Nintendo is to be believed; I haven't heard any independent data) and would also back up Nintendo's claim that they've sold as many total game machines as both of their competitors combined (with the GC and GBA).

    So don't be surprised if from their position in "third place" they wind up making more profit this year than either of their competitors.

  • It's the Games Silly (Score:3, Insightful)

    by telstar ( 236404 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @11:38AM (#2726046)
    A console's success is based on the games it supports. The Playstation 2 has been out for a year and as a result, has a great library of games. The XBOX and Gamecube are brand new, and as a result, only have a handful of games each. If you want to compare capabilities of hardware, then the GPU of the XBOX is superior to that of the PS2. If you want to compare portability, then the Gamecube trumps them both. If you want to compare number of systems owned, then the PS2 wins ... but take a look at the picture a year from now ... when the XBOX and Gamecube have matured to the level that the PS2 has reached and those are the numbers that really count.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • It's the games, stupid. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by DrMaurer ( 64120 ) <danlowlite AT gmail DOT com> on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @11:47AM (#2726097) Homepage
    I've been thinking about a console for myself for oh, the past month. I'm really leaning towards the PS2.

    Why?

    It's the games.

    Grand Theft Auto 3, specifically. But that's just me.

    I've been looking at the offerings for GameCube and Xbox, and none of them are really all that appealling. Tony Hawk 2x? What the hell? Why not just get Tony Hawk 3? Sure, we all know it's the same game as the first two . . .

    I don't want a star-wars game. Halo looks good, as does Luigi's Castle, but I really don't want to play them. I'm just not drawn to them.

    PS2 has Final Fantasy 8, 9, 10, whatever they are. Metal Gear Solid 2 (hell, even the first one will play on it). Regardless:

    I think Nintendo really fumbled. Really. Great that it's 100 bucks cheaper than the other two major consoles, but still, the games aren't there . . . bettter than the Xbox, but not enough, you know.

    And this all is because of PS2's lead time to market.

    I think that's about right.
  • I've been concerned that there might be another
    console game market crash, but current sales figures might proove me wrong. Sony seems to be
    selling tons of PS2 consoles now, despite the
    fact that everyone was ripping on them for the
    poor launch. It is next to impossible to get an
    XBox or GameCube in any store where I live, and
    there has even been a shortage of controllers and
    memory cards for those systems as well. While
    I've not seem a game a truthfully like enough
    for XBox to buy one... there are great games
    on the other two consoles, like Super Smash Bros.
    Melee for GC and FF10 for PS2.

    And then throwing in the GBA to the equation,
    which I think is a wonderful system (probably
    because it reminds me of the SNES).

    Perhaps, if things go well, we'll see another few
    years that are reminiscent of the 16-bit days.
    We might see great games because of
    competition between the console makers. I guess
    we'll have to wait a little while though to see
    if it is true.

  • Walmart, Walmart, Walmart (Score:4, Interesting)

    by alexhmit01 ( 104757 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @11:58AM (#2726164)
    The problem with these numbers is that it excludes Walmart. This really hurts Nintendo.

    Nintendo priced the Gamecube $100 cheaper, and sells it as a family system. This combination makes Walmart especially significant for Nintendo. Walmart is their largest reseller, and is excluded from these numbers.

    This is in addition to the obvious problems that during this time period, not all three systems were out. For installed base, of course the PS2 has the early selling advantage, but extrapolating anything from three weeks is meaningless when one of the three competitors wasn't on the market for one of those weeks.

    However, if we pretend that it is relevants:
    Sales per day:
    Nintendo: 28666
    Xbox: 38916
    PS2: 35629

    At this rate, Xbox will catch up with the Plastation 2 in a few decades. Nintendo should look better when the real numbers come out, as Walmart should help them catch up by a few thousand per day on their competition.

    As far as platform adoption, Nintendo will be more dependant on Christmas numbers than the other consoles simply because it appeals to a younger crowd. XBox and PS2 are competing for the 16-25 market, Nintendo owns the rest of the market and has some presence in that market.

    Look, ever since the "Sega does what Nintendon't" ads and the Mortal Kombat scandal in the SNES/Genny wars, Nintendo's weak side was exposed. In making a fun, colorful gaming system, it is easy to manipulate teens into thinking that other companies make "cooler" stuff.

    Shrug, I loved my NES, my SNES, my brother's N64, and I'll love my Gamecube when I get it this weekend. My friends love their gamecubes. If the fiancee isn't kept entertained by the Gamecube games, we may pick up a PS2 and 6 or 7 games if the price drops (I'm not dropping $300 for the right to buy Frequency, FF7, FFX, Dragon Warrior 7), but even if so it is more likely to be for the PS1 compatibility.

    Anyway, anyone who hasn't played SSBM (Super Smash Brothers Melee) or SMB (Super Monkey Ball) with three friends for hours doesn't understand how fun console gaming is. I play consoles mostly with friends, and we'll knock back a few beers while screaming and yelling during SMB or talking trash during SSBM.

    I mean, to me, 4 player is more important than Final Fantasy, as I'll choose fun with friends over an RPG.

    Alex
  • I got a PS2 last week for christmas (yep, opened it already) and i bought Grand Theft Auto 3. That game is amazing. I find it very addictive. The graphics is really incredible, the attention to details is more than i have ever seen (but then i have been away form console games since SN16 & Sega Genesis). M$ Xbox does look pretty impressive, but i like the idea of voting with my money. Besides, i am not at all disappointed with my the PS2. Once again I have fallen in love with an inaniminate object.
    • If you're constantly following the gaming scene (PC or console), then all the improvements in games seem kind of boring, because you know the immediate predecessor to the game in question was almost just as good.

      But if you're away for a while, then it all seems fresh again, and it's a lot of fun that way.

      My plan is to just play through the batch of stuff I have right now, then not bother with new games again for a good long while.

      Have fun!
  • I don't do Sony. On the other hand, since I still have some PC and Dreamcast games that have been sitting around for months that I haven't even played yet, not having a PS2 is no big loss for me.

    A c compiler is where the true challenges lie anyway.

    Rich
  • The PS2 having 4 more days in the market only outsells the Xbox et all by ~30k units and slashdot is bragging about it?

    if you figure the math out, the way the xbox was selling if these were on the same timeline the xbox would have sold over 100k units more then the PS2.

    What does this have to do with quality anyhow? I know BMW sells 1% of what ford sells, but hell if i'm going to say for id better then BMW's.

    Xbox has Max Payne, Halo, Simpsons Road Rage, Amped, Project Gotham, SSX Tricky, Abe and Silent Hill 2, all of which are plenty rich enough to keep me happy.

    This is a multiplatform erra, why people think backwards compatibility is the best i dunno, i don't run Windows XP to be backwards compatible with Windows 3.1, i've sort of passed that era. Just like i wouldn't spend 299 on a hifi vcr to play mono tapes recorded on a single head vcr, doesn't make sense..

    after all, isn't slashdot always preaching use the right tool for the right job. If you wanna play PS1 games buy a 25.00 ps1 off ebay and save yourself 275.00 :)

    Or if you buy a ps2, please atleast say your buying it to play ps2 games. You don't buy a 1.6 ghz athlon to play ping on do you?
    • Xbox has Max Payne, Halo, Simpsons Road Rage, Amped, Project Gotham, SSX Tricky, Abe and Silent Hill 2

      And how many of these are out or will be out shortly for the PC?

      I don't drop $600+ (cdn) over to Microsoft for the right to play a bunch of PC games. I want games that fit into a console's sweet spot; a combination of excellent 4-person "party" games, and the occasional single player adventure game.

      Based on that criteria, the Gamecube is the clear winner. If I want to play Max Payne or Halo I'll go play them on my PC, thanks. That is the right tool for the job.

  • Ok, well that's not completely true- it wasn't the *only* reason. ;-) The one thing I noticed though was that while the Xbox's graphics are better than anything else out there, the games aren't as good as those on the PS2.

    A friend of mine picked up an Xbox and I've had a chance to watch him play a few games. Honestly they all look really good, but I'm not all that impressed with the games themselves. Halo has this annoying habbit of stalling for a breif second (in addition ot the short loads between areas of the map) which would drive me nuts in a FPS. And honestly, not having a mouse/keyboard sucks.

    Frankly, I'm loving GTA3, GT3 (much better then PGR IMHO), Devil May Cry, etc on my PS2 much more than anything on the Xbox. Even though DOA3 has much nicer graphics than TTT, I still prefer TTT because once you look at everything else, TTT is a better game.

    Honestly, the only game on the Xbox I've seen so far that plays as good as it looks is Munch World. But let's face it, between Munch World and FFX, I'll take FFX.

  • Good for you, Taco... (Score:5, Funny)

    by bjtuna ( 70129 ) <brian AT intercarve DOT net> on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @01:23PM (#2726852) Homepage
    Must see Lord of the Rings, and then play more FFX. Is this a great time to be alive, or what?

    Y'know Taco, some of us WORK or STUDY all day.

  • Supply of new consoles is not bad, says eBay. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SuperKendall ( 25149 ) on Wednesday December 19, 2001 @01:47PM (#2727002)
    A number of people have pointed out that the newer consoles are in short supply so they don't have as much of a chance to sell.

    Yet, if you check eBay XBox and Gamecube systems are going mostly at cost at this point (the ones that are selling at all). I personally think that XBox and Gamecube sales figures are bound to be a touch inflated at this point by MANY people who bought extra to sell on eBay, so there might be a bit of a soft market for both systems for a month or two.

    I don't know if it's because there were two systems released this year or what, but at no point of either the XBox or Gamecube had the eBay demand the PS2 did last year. I'm not saying that means the PS2 is a better system or that it means anything about who will come to dominate in the future - just noting that demand for each new system is simply not nearly as high as the PS2 demand was (though they also had a more limited supply than the GameCube or XBox, I think).

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