AMD To Close Plants, Lay off 2300, Lose Gateway 457
cdrudge writes: "According to this article on CNN, AMD will be closing 2 plants in Austin, TX and also their operations in Penang, Malaysia due to slack demand. 2300 jobs will be cut in the process. The same article mentions Gateway dropping it's 'Select' line of computers. Their 'Select' line of computers were Gateway's only AMD-based systems. A Gateway spokesperson said 'We're consolidating all of our offering behind Intel, which was the biggest part of our mix already.'"
Hey if that still fails (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Hey if that still fails (Score:2, Funny)
AMD, you little heat-whore, you
Not Cool (Score:2, Insightful)
Highly disappointing (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Highly disappointing (Score:4, Informative)
In fact, they have been building chips to fit the PC platform nearly as long as Intel has. Take an old original IBM PC and fit an AMD 8088 clone in it and see what happens. Unfortunately, the inability to deliver a Pentium-class CPU in time (they were WAY behind Intel) hurt their revenue and market share a lot. Intel's "Pentium" name gained worldwide recognition - and left AMD in the dust.
Hopefully, AMD is not done yet, and like with the K5 they will be able to prop themselves up and surge ahead.
Hopefully.
- Ed.
Re:Highly disappointing (Score:2, Informative)
AMD is closing its oldest 0.7 micron flash fabs, not anything to do with newer flash or microprocessors.
Intel's ass is still grass.
For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:5, Insightful)
Separately, embattled PC maker Gateway (GTW: down $0.10 to $6.07, Research, Estimates) said Tuesday it will phase out all of its systems based on AMD processors as part of its broader cost-cutting efforts.
It's cheaper for them to just source Intel CPU's and motherboards than to run two product lines, basically. I'm stunned that the price difference in the CPU alone wouldn't be enough to keep Gateway using AMD, but there you have it. For once, Intel is a cheaper decision.
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:2, Informative)
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:2, Informative)
On the otherhand, Intel's P4's have some thermo monitoring thingy which will shut the processor down in case the heat rises too high, thereby saving the P4's life. This might be the reason why using Intel chips are less costly.
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:2, Interesting)
Tom (of Tom's Hardware) had an interesting article [tomshardware.com] a while back about how easily AMD CPUs and motherboards can get fried. I wonder if a high CPU failure rate has anything to do with this decision...
Great FUD! (Score:2, Insightful)
Moral of the story: Use a heat sink. Duh.
Tom's review was about as impressive as Consumer's Digest reporting that if you order a new Ford Focus without a radiator, the engine might explode. '
Common sense, people. Sheesh...
Re:Hot CPUs (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Hot CPUs (Score:2)
heatsink. You've probably got a cheap OEM
heatsink, get a good one.
Re:Hot CPUs (Score:2)
Exact same problem on a K6-2 450. Have to run it at 300MHz, and that's even with a nice heat sink/fan. Still a lot better than the P133 it replaced... but I hate paying for something I'm not getting.
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem here is a lot similar (at least in my eyes) to the Pepsi/Coke college thing. Pepsi came on campus here at BGSU [bgsu.edu] and gave them $8 million dollars to take PepsiCo as the main supplier of soft drinks (rather than having both like they did before).
Intel is pulling the same bullshit. They want to squeeze out the competition so they best way to do that is to force large outlets of computers to stick w/one chip vendor.
I consider this very unethical.
I don't know if this is exactly what happened in this case (but I can only assume that it is)
I can't see why people would want to spend more money for less output on an Intel machine when the AMD is tons cheaper and faster.
Yes, yes, we know the public is misinformed and really believes that clock-size is important but price is what gets most people.
AMD still wins there.
Bad choice Gateway.
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:2)
Unethical? I believe there was a case where it was ruled that Intel had monopoly power a couple of years back. That would make it not only unethical but downright *illegal*.
It is essentially not unlike the game that M$ played with the OEMS: Sell only our OS and your price is x, sell other OSes and your price x*10...
Is anybody at the DoJ paying ATTENTION!!!! AHEM!!!!
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:5, Insightful)
The previous poster admits that he has no evidence that Intel is doing anything illegal, but assumes that they must be anyway. I find this to be just a teeny bit presumptuous. Intel may have simply offered better terms than AMD. Since Gateway only has to pass the cost of CPUs on to the consumer, I don't think that price/performance is so much the issue as a streamlined manufacturing pipeline and/or a worry about public perception.
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:2)
How the fuck can you say that Intel was the wiser choice in a market where price makes sense? $899 for the newest Dell machines (just saw an ad on TV). Gateway is a competitor. Why would they want to jack up the price to compete?
Thus my point is valid. Intel had to do something here to get Gateway to drop them.
Just b/c AMD holds 20% market share does not mean that Intel doesn't have a monopoly. Pushing out other competition like this is monopolistic practices.
Fuck that shit.
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:3, Informative)
Intel is pulling the same bullshit. They want to squeeze out the competition so they best way to do that is to force large outlets of computers to stick w/one chip vendor.
I don't think that's the issue, here. Vendors get a discount for a line of computers (e.g., Dimension, OptiPlex) that use exclusively Intel processors. That's essentially why the Select line exists: to sell Athlons without jeopardizing Intel discounts on other lines. I'm not aware of additional discounts for total exclusivity.
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:2)
Intel made 4 different processors that were Pentium III-600, and did absolutly nothing to tell them apart unless you were buying a boxed processor (and even then they'd be vague why a E or B or EB was better). Most of the people that bought a 600 from Dell or another OEM got a Katmai w/100 FSB (did you ever see a Intel 600EB advertized in a complete system from a major OEM?). No they just provided the slowest of the set. They'll both actually hide what the processor's actual speed/type when it suits their marketing needs. Both companies are trying to sell as many systems as possible, that's all their is two it. Besides if the system is low-end you must expect that some of the parts like the motherboard wouldn't be exactly first rate. They'll get the job done, but otherwise you'll need to spend the money.
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:2, Interesting)
How many workstation & servers do you really think use (or need) more than 2 cpu's? From my experience unless you'd be better served by a 40+ cpu system, you don't need more than 2 or 4.
Even down the line with Hammer AMD doesn't see the need currently for more than 4 cpu's (& that's worst case)... Maybe you need 8 of those crappy Intel cpu's to come close to the performance of 2 AMD's, but that's no reason for AMD to come out with higher mutli-cpu systems...
Oh Intel btw only offers 2 cpu solutions for their P4 Xeon's riight now btw... So why aren't you complaining about how Intel needs 8 cpu systems with P4?
Corp america hardly wants to buy anything right now, hence the PC downturn of this year.
As for upgradable... Um Intel cuts off at the knees any upgrade option every 1 to 1.5 years... Where is that upgradability their huh? In fact AMD has a reputation for keeping the same tech for long stretches (which I admit has fallen slightly since Slot-A went away, but they always said SLot-A was temporary)...
Hmmm... 64bit path... I take it Hammer which will be released in time with MS's XP Server & Advanced server next year isn't 64bit enough for you huh? In fact Hammer is much better for business than Intel's 64bit solution... intel (yet again) forces you to toss away, while AMD promotes keeping what you have... The cost to use a Hammer cpu when upgrading a server (& keeping most of the same software you run now) vs. Itanium were you have to recode or buy new all your software is way lower...
AMD hasn't had to 'emulate' Intel since the 486... X86 is well defined & their 3dnow was something Intel hadn't bothered with yet... In fact they only did because AMD did first... Now who is following who? Intel sold the SSE/SSE2 instructions to AMD for licencing they needed from AMD... Again AMD makign out far better & not compyign Intel...
You go off about a bunch of crap that is wrong & then you whine how AMD needs to change... Well maybe if you could prove your point I'd agree, but you can't...
I am active on many a tech messageboard & so very influential people belong to some... I know one who works for a company that produces digital animation used by several major networks. Under his influence they ONLY use AMD based systems... In fact most recently they upgraded their modelers & part of their render farm to Dual CPU AMD based systems...
I effect the purchase decisions of a large group of people as a consultant for smaller companies (smaller being less than 100 employees)... Upon my recommendation they mostly buy systems from places like Polywell or Sys that sell AMD based products...
AMD doesn't need a new plan, AMD is doing just fine...
Chose foo today - you can still chose bar tomorrow (Score:2)
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:2, Interesting)
Thanks for the chance.
Here at Intel, life sucks. Profits are down, all the perks are gone, people are getting laid off, and there's more and more work to do. But, at least I have a job, unlike those 2,300 AMD'ers. Go to back issues of the register, and compare their leaked Intel processor roadmaps from a few years back. Go look at what we wanted to charge for processors. Then look at our prices now.
But no, we're certainly not beating AMD fair and square, are we? Not by cutting prices on our flagship products, delivering on time, satisfying the customer, etc... no, not that. Surely we must be engaged in some dark conspiracy to manipulate PC manufacturers into dropping AMD against their own financial self-interest. Does no one realize how stupid that sounds?
For those of you who think "Wintel"--realize this: Microsoft can give away products (PowerPoint, IE, PhotoEdit, etc.) in order to drive others out of the market, because 1) they don't have to pay much to make more copies of something once they have a program to sell and 2) they make enough money on enough different products that they can afford to give away products as a "loss leader" to undermine the market share of the competition. Chips cost money to make, and they're pretty much all that makes income for the company at this point.
If we're winning this round, it sure ain't fun. Pyrrhic victory at best--but at least all our fabs are paid for.
Re:For Gateway, Intel = cheaper (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps Intel made Gateway an offer they, in their increasingly-desperate financial straits, could not refuse. An offer like, "If you exclusively sell machines based on Intel processors, we'll give you a significant discount over what you'd pay if you offered your customers a choice."
This is a Microsoft tactic from way back, used with great effect to obtain their OS monopoly. The Microsoft File [amazon.com] gives a detailed account of them using this tactic to stop Vobis [vobis.de], a German PC maker from offering DR-DOS. Microsoft gave Vobis a huge discount on the then-new Windows 3.x if they would exclusively sell MS-DOS and stop distributing DR-DOS.
~Philly
For Gateway, Intel = safer (Score:2)
I'm stunned that the price difference in the CPU alone wouldn't be enough to keep Gateway using AMD, but there you have it.
I think it's less "cheaper" (though they'll tell investors that... and in some intangible way, they might be right) than it is "safer".
One: Intel is a brand name everybody knows from the catchy TV ads. We know the Bunnymen, we know Blue Man Group. They make us laugh and give us warm fuzzies about Intel.
(Side rant: this points up that companies that do not advertise, cannot displace a well-known, dominant player. The mass market will not buy your product if they've never heard of you. It's practically a law of nature. I've never seen an AMD ad on network TV... could that just possibly start to explain why consumers don't care about them?)
Two: AMD is literally a bigger risk physically. I think by now we've all seen the videos of AMD chips turning themselves into slag when they lose cooling. Nobody wants to be the PC maker getting sued because their PC caused a fire that did $300,000 worth of damage to some CTO's house in Ritztown. Even less do they want to the PC maker whose halted-and-caught-fire box burns down some working-poor family's two-room cottage, breaking them financially. Until AMD does something about their (lack of) resistance to cooling failure, I sure wouldn't put it in a computer I built for my family and I probably wouldn't run it myself either. Given the videos I'm surprised UL approved their chips (or did they?)
And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce (Score:5, Interesting)
Though on another note, it's very disappointing to see Gateway abandon AMD in favor of Intel. Considering that the AMD processors have a tendency to 'whoop the crap' out of comparable Intel chips (when you factor in the cost, especially) it seems that AMD would've been more logical as a "More bang for the buck" system.
Would anyone like to guess what sort of 'Incentive' was offered by Intel?
Incentive (Score:3, Funny)
- rlj
Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce (Score:2)
Boeing alone was cutting 20,000 - 30,000 workers.
Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce (Score:2)
Then you have all of the IT cuts that've been taking place lately....
I tell you what, if I weren't the only IT guy where I work (and therefore 'reasonably' secure) I might be looking for a way to make it that way.
Get Real man... (Score:2, Insightful)
I'd also like to see how many Dell/Micron/other systems in the same price range were sold over the same time period.
Don't be so quick to automatically assume like a jackoff that Intel is behind this. If you're a major vendor like Gateway and people aren't buying your $999 AMD boxes, but instead are buying Dell/Micron/other $999 Intel boxes and are outselling your AMD boxes 2:1(high end 4:1), would you waste money and capital trying to push AMD boxes?
Realize that I have no data to back up my ratios, it's just hypothetical until data is shown to prove otherwise, but realize this...people refuse to buy an unknown. I can't remember how many times I've seen people buy Sony TV's because("it's a Sony, it's the best") whereas a Samsung or Phillips TV might look better and cost less, but people just assume and don't even look at them.
Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce (Score:5, Interesting)
By which I mean that these people have been deadwood for a good long time: it's just that while the stock market was rewarding those companies unjustly during the boom, those companies couldn't cut their workforce without severely impacting their stock value.
Now that everything is in the shithole, it's real easy to trash employees: hell, it's even desirable to drop the stock price, so that the company can buy it back for resale at a far greater value once the market recovers!
In support of this, look at the number of companies writing off intangibles. They're deliberately beating down their stocks, or at the very least don't care whether the stock drops any further.
Finally, the one big question I have is this: how the fuck do you end up with thousands and tens of thousands of excess employees? You'd have to be insane to retain that many staff when they're unnecessary -- why weren't they being hired/fired in trickles and dribbles, as the company needed/didn't need them? Makes more sense than the freaking cattle-calls they must have chosen when hiring en masse.
One last note: while being fired is stressful, many of these people are skilled and creative. It may take them a few months to get over the loss, but once they do -- look out! We're going to see entrepreneurship skyrocketing!
I think that's pretty exciting. There's going to be a lot of innovation over the next few years. Gonna drive the economy to new heights!
Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce (Score:2)
Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce (Score:2, Insightful)
Yeah. I've met the entrepeneurs wanting to wash my car windows at stoplights. Absorbing 10K+ jobs is not something easily done in a slowing economy nor do most people have the wherewithal (or attributes) to make them successful entrepeneurs. For every 10 businesses started, only 1 succeeds. And for every 10 of those, only 1 survives to hire more than a handful of employees. Entrepeneurship is difficult in the best of times. Doing it while the economy is in a downward spiral, for most people, is a recipe for disaster.
I think that's pretty exciting. There's going to be a lot of innovation over the next few years.
Yeah, I saw that message in my E-mail with the subject line reading "MAKE MONEY FAST", too. I'm sure other folks out there are just as creative...
Re:And yet more slashes to the crippled workforce (Score:2, Interesting)
Maybe today, but remember, 3 years ago AMD was 'less bang, but less buck'. And IA-64 is just around the corner. Who knows, maybe Gateway is betting on that. (Doubtful, since _right_now_ AMD is decidely better, but maybe Gateway is looking futher ahead than I think.)
Not to sound like a nay-sayer... (Score:5, Informative)
However, the line about Intel "aggressively pricing" their P4's is just so much CNN tripe. A quick look at Sharkey's Extreme Weekly CPU prices [sharkyextreme.com] shows this to be BS.
(hint: top of the line AMD - 100 bucks, Intel -- 500 bucks)
- Cheers
- RLJ
It's called playing the marketing numbers. (Score:2, Informative)
The top of the line Intel is a 2.0ghz on a 400mhz FSB. And actually the price is $570. (Marketing: orange)
You are right, the top of the line is ~$500, but Intel's top of the line carries larger numbers.
Of course, MHZ isn't an acurate scale of performance or power, but it is the scale looked at by home and business consumers.
To see where the price war is you need to look at the Pentium 4 1.4ghz (400mhz FSB). That little cpu is priced at $114. A very (price wise) competitive product. (Marketing: apple [the fruit])
It comes down to comparing apples with oranges, really. It is a nice way to try to prove a point, but still wrong.
Just remember, AMD was proud to use a mhz rating to describe its chips back when it held the highest.
Finally, the public can never be made aware of how little mhz has to do with actual performance because it already realize mhz isn't entirely accurate, it just isn't willing to invest the time and effort to investigate actual performace data.
I can see it now.
Circuit City Rep.: "Can I help you?"
Customer: "Yes, what does this mean: AMD Athlon 3.921k D.ALU"
Circuit City Rep.: "Derstern Arth.. Er, that's the number of additions it can do a minute."
Customer: "But it's cheaper than this Intel Pentium 4 2.0ghz. Something doesn't seem right, this must be a better computer. My old computer is only a 300mhz, what does that mean?"
Circuit City Rep.: "Well 2.0ghz is 2000mhz."
Customer: "I'll take the pentium."
I'm no economist (Score:5, Insightful)
So, because consumer spending is down, Gateway is discontinuing its' discount line of computers. Because consumers want to buy more expensive computers when the economy is in trouble.
I must be missing something.
While the price war has left scars on each company, AMD's wounds have been more severe than its larger, deep-pocketed rival.
Now is the time for Intel to use all of its' financial muscle to crush AMD once and for all. This is capitalism. If Intel can continue bleeding longer by slashing prices below manufacturer cost, AMD will eventually run out of money. Once the economy picks back up, Intel will look out on the sunny pasture of monopoly, where it can play in peace with Microsoft now that the U.S. government has said "OK" to monopolies.
My advice: buy Intel stock.
Re:I'm no economist (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:I'm no economist (Score:2)
I think you underestimate how stupid corporate CEO's are, and how greedy.
--Bob
Re:I'm no economist (Score:2)
Re:I'm no economist (Score:2)
Some good it does.
--Bob
Re:I'm no economist (Score:2)
> > which was the biggest part of our mix already.'
>
> So, because consumer spending is down,
> Gateway is discontinuing its' discount line of computers.
> Because consumers want to buy more expensive
> computers when the economy is in trouble.
>
> I must be missing something.
Yes. One thing that you are missing is that
a company Profit=Sales-Expense.
While the effect on sales for gateway is not easy
to predict (on one hand, pure supply/demand formula would,
as you indicated, decrease sales; on the other hand,
a lot of people buying Gateways would buy a more expensive
higher-clock-rated Intel box than AMD one).
However, the expense for Gareway would be
significantly reduced, because they would
eliminate R&D, support and manufacturing overhead
of having 2 families of systems instead of one.
-DVK
Re:I'm no economist (Score:2, Insightful)
AMD has about $1 Billion in the bank. Intel has about $7 Billion in the bank. Intel's expenses are about 10 times as much as AMD. So if both companies were to give away their processors, Intel would run out of money first.
The assumption that Intel would automatically win a price war is very questionable.
Bryan
Re:About the 'monopoly' claims (Score:2)
>chose to drop AMD for cost reasons, just like the article suggests.
The way I hear that the Intel pricing model works, there are prices, and there are rebates. Pretty much everyone pays the prices, but the rebates go to the 'faithful'. The way the PC marketplace has been working, the rebate makes the difference between profit and loss on a box. Kind of like the way Microsoft effectively licenses per-CPU, even though calling it that was declared illegal.
Penang Plant not closed (Score:2, Informative)
At least that's what the local newspapers say.
Disclaimer : I'm from penang. But I'm not in penang.
big deal (Score:5, Insightful)
As for Gateway, most of the people who buy them are the ones who are charmed by the sexy "Intel Inside" logo. Those of us who know better don't buy from Gateway anyway.
Just accelerating plans... (Score:5, Interesting)
The plants being closed were mainly used for foundry business. AMD does not want to be a foundry: the TSMC's of the world do that much better, and AMD wants to focus on their core competencies: processors and flash. The foundry business is almost accidental. It generally comes from AMD spinoffs designing communications and analog IC's who were transitioning to traditional foundries. Now they'll just have to transition faster.
The Gateway move was also not unexpected. Gateway is in lots of trouble. They want their big friends (Intel) to help them out, and so they are demonstrating their loyalty to their big friends.
Bryan
Re:Just accelerating plans... (Score:2)
But this isn't the first fishy thing I've heard about how Gateway's running their business in the past year. It does seem suspicious that they would cut their more value-oriented lines right when those are what people are more likely to buy.
Not the end... (Score:5, Interesting)
The plants they are closing are their oldest plants, and coincide with a reduction in output that has been seen throughout the sector. It is even possible that it was becoming increasing difficult to find current products that these fabs were capable of producing.
This isn't the end of AMD, it just means they won't be posting earnings of 50 cents a share each quarter for a while. Intel's feeling the same crunch, and AMD's still got some decent cash reserves.
Gateway wasn't really "selling" Athlons anyway (Score:4, Interesting)
Basically, they told us that "businesses don't want AMD, so we won't sell them to you."
Talked to an AMD Rep (Score:5, Interesting)
One: no new processors from AMD anytime soon. Just renaming the processors and removing mention of the Athlon name (AMD 1600 for the 1.2 GHz, AMD 2100 etc).
Two: They are making a killing in the corporate market.
Three: There next big focus area is the laptop market. This will be the only place with "new" AMD processors. Most likely people will see more 1.0 GHz+ AMD based laptop systems soon.
Re:Talked to an AMD Rep (Score:2, Informative)
AMD *is* releasing new processors shortly. Do you not remember the Palomino cored AthlonXP (or whatever they actually decide to call it)? This is destined to ship within the next month at around 1.53GHz.
And they aren't making a killing in the corporate market, so don't even try and pull that one out of your ass and call it objective fact. Meh.
Re:Talked to an AMD Rep (Score:2, Informative)
Here are some quick notes:
1- um they will still be named Athlon... In fact AMD AthlonXP 1600 is how I've seen a few system configs listed... & The whole AthlonXP series is set to release within the next few weeks... In fact it could be within 2 weeks if things go well...
2- um this is so silly I won't comment... Though I wish this was the case...
3- Compaq announced a 1.2 Ghz athlon4 based laptop yesterday... 1.1 Ghz Athlon4's were already out & have been for ~1 month...
I will add that AMD is still selling out all CPU's they can make... This alone states that demand has stayed high for their product & we should not worry that AMD is in trouble...
Re:Talked to an AMD Rep (Score:2)
Great! Time to start selling heat resistant lap-covers.
Capitalism in Action (Score:3, Informative)
I don't see that there is much to worry about here. I'd be more concerned if AMD wasn't laying-off people. As it is, I think people have enough computer power for the time being. How many MHz does the average person/business really need?
There are always going to be adolescents out there who will buy the latest/greatest hardware just for the sake of it(and god bless 'em--they get fleeced and absorb research costs while we level-headed folks get affordable technology); but real people have enough computers right now.
Re:Capitalism in Action (Score:3, Insightful)
The market is always right.
By what standard do you judge that the market is always right? Do you mean it literally? Do you mean it in theory? Do you mean it in practice?
Do you consider the fact that people buy things because they are told to do so by the manufacturer? That the only time a manufacturer needs to consider closing a factory is when they cannot successfully convince people to buy whatever that factory produces?
Are you saying "the market wants more Nikes, therefore it is right that more Nikes be produced and sold"?
I have a difficult time believing that the "market" desire for more Nikes is "right" in any meaningful way.
Re:Capitalism in Action (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Capitalism in Action (Score:2)
The market is always right. If AMD has to close plants and lay-off employees, that means there aren't enough people buying AMD right now. This is what's so great about capitalism.
... then why don't we say this about Microsoft?
Intel volume pricing? (Score:2)
No matter what the reason, bad move Gateway.
Although I must take the time to thank Gateway. Over the years they have provided my relatives with enough tech support to keep them from calling me. Hell, they spent 3 hours on the phone with my mom while she installed a new HD she bought at the local computer store, and her Gateway machine wasn't even under warranty anymore. Gee, ya think that could be part of the reason they're having trouble now?
Re:Intel volume pricing? (Score:2)
Perhaps, but if that will convince your mother to make her next purchase from Gateway, then it was worth it. I've always maintained that customer service is the key to repeat business. Short-term thinkers don't always see this.
Re:Intel volume pricing? (Score:2)
Here's an Idea (Score:5, Interesting)
Dell, IBM, etc. all have the same problem. And it all seems to be related to the fact that the support costs for a low-margin, low-sales product line is too high. So why are the costs so high? From my experience, it's customer support. Too many people don't know how to use a computer and call (harass) the computer companies tech-support for the most minor of issues.
So I was thinking... let's turn it around. Create a computer company for smart people. Do not offer tech support. Do not offer customer service (outside of basic order processing) Just assemble and ship the product. If you don't know how to use it, don't buy it from us. A side benefit of this idea would be that "hard-core" computer geeks can stop wandering from site to site to build their computers. Since there's little over-head to cover, prices will stay cheap.
The same idea can be applied to ISPs. The major cost of an ISP is the customer support staff to go along with it. I'm sure there's a LOT of people out there that would gladly save 10%-25% of their Internet fee in exchange for having no customer support (since most people-in-the-know don't use it anyway).
Re:Here's an Idea (Score:2)
Re:Here's an Idea (Score:2)
www.yuppiegeek.net
$8 for unlimited dial-up... and they are working on a deal to go national.
I won't lie this is run by a friend of mine so I may be biased, but it is a good deal if you know what you are doing.
Re:Here's an Idea (Score:2)
HEH... just kidding. Actually, I like doing the research, the part that is frustrating is having to buy the components from so many different places to get a good deal.
One company has cheap RAM, but marks up CPUs, one has cheap CPUs, but marks up Drives. And then every two weeks they change which are good deals. (thank god for PriceWatch). The companies I GUESS hope that you will buy their marked up products along with their sale items to avoid multiple shipping charges. All it does is piss me off. One of these days someone will find out how to make money in Hardware.
AMD Products (Score:5, Insightful)
Gateway jumps ship again... (Score:4, Informative)
I suspect that AMD will pull through this, and most likely will re-activate the foundries when they need more capacity, though that might take some time as they still haven't reached 100% at Dresden yet and they're already transitioning to 0.13 micron process.
What does confuse me is why AMD consistently adopts such low selling prices. I think that people would still buy their processors even if they tacked on a minimum of $50 on the high end, if not even $100. A full base system based on AMD costs $400 these days and for that you can't even get a high end P4.
Sometimes the market economy and technology adoption just confuses me. I mean we've had Firewire (IEEE 1394) for almost a decade and it's only just now catching on, and even now with great resistance... go figure.
great move (Score:2)
It never ceases to amaze me, the utter shit that PC manufacturers sell to people. Compaq, Dell, Gateway, etc., sell absolute complete shit. They're always trying to make it difficult to upgrade, or they're fucking up Windows and making it incompatible with Office(yes, Compaq did this once... talk about an oversight), or combining good CPUs with shit for ram etc...
If you ask me, the only way to go when purchasing a PC is to buy the parts you want and put it together yourself. I have never seen an off-the-shelf PC that was something I would want to use.
No Surprise (Score:2)
FTR I own an AMD 1.4 and my midtower can't circulate enough air, even with a Dragon Orb 3.
A serious question for PC know-it-alls (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Re:A serious question for PC know-it-alls (Score:4, Informative)
Antec has a new 350W p/s that makes a good, inexpensive choice for a single-CPU system, and they sell a nice midtower case that comes with it. I say "inexpensive" relative to the PC Power & Cooling gear I usually get.
Toy stores: MWave.com [mwave.com] for selection, Newegg.com [newegg.com] for price. I've bought a lot of stuff from MWave, haven't tried Newegg yet but will next chance I get, they're supposed to be good. EMS Computing [emscomputing.com] has great prices on Antec stuff, I bought from them once, but their site is s-l-o-w.
Re:A serious question for PC know-it-alls (Score:2)
Building your own system is a lot cheaper than buying a ready-made system (especially if you buy from different shops), and you have control over which components make up your system. I like it
OOTR: not one (read "none") of the people I know have bought an Intel system recently. They all bought AMD...
Looks like Dresden is their future (Score:3, Interesting)
Last I heard Dresden wasn't anywhere near capacity, so I guess that it's not too surprising that they would move production over there with their future lines.
on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends (Score:3, Flamebait)
I have had my fill of corporate cynicism in recent weeks. For once, I wish owners of corporations would pick a year (this year, maybe?) to not make a profit. Year after year, in all industries, the fruits of innovation and automation flow to the investor class. The flow appears to only go in one direction, for a slight recession and a single day of terrorism have spawned an outbreak of Layoff-itis. People everywhere are being layed off--an action with permanent results--in response to temporary conditions, all to maintain the level of profit that the Leech Class has grown accustomed to.
Now AMD joins the long list of companies perpetrating vast economic terrorism against people whose only crime is filling out a job application and working diligently day after day. Who will feed these 2,300 families and the ~100,000 families who were likewise fucked by the airline industry? Who will comfort the children whose parents commit suicide in desperation?
These are the people who make our laws, fill our heads with memes designed to guarantee permanently increasing profits, poison our water, and drag us into international conflict. Like the gods, they kill us for their sport. Have no sympathy for them--sell off all your stock and kiss those motherfuckers goodbye.
Jesus of Nazareth said something once that has perhaps never been more true: Money is the root of all evil.
Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends (Score:3, Interesting)
I think I digressed more than enough there - essentially it's disgusting that companies exploit the WTC disaster to raise their stock valuation. The same way that it's dispicable that the next day senators were tacking missile defense amendments onto critical relief packages (luckily failing) and that Israel attacked a city it had been besieging. A big news item like the WTC disaster essentially blacks out all other news, and the exploitation of that factor was pathetic.
Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends (Score:2)
Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends (well... (Score:2)
Actually, the theme is totally and completely different. And profound. Learn the difference, and Be Enlightened.
Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends (Score:2, Insightful)
You are speaking of Expenses, which are deducted from Revenues to arrive at another figure called Profit, and Capital Expenditures, which are amortized as Expenses over arbitrarily chosen periods of time. My friend, it is time for you to enroll at your local institution of higher learning.
My earlier rant was based upon years of direct experience, observation, and the realities of capitalist dogma. The majority owners of nearly all U.S. corporations make up the richest 5% of the population. The minority owners are middle-class folk like you and I who have 401Ks and mutual funds. Each year, the majority owners place an order for the profit they would like to receive in the next year. Management seeks that level of profit, as Malcolm X would say, "by any means necessary".
They operate on many fronts:
Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends (Score:2)
Why not stop complaining and try to get into that 5%? Start a business. If you get rich then you can advance your agenda more effectively, whatever it is.
Re:on Capitalism, or Fair Weather Friends (Score:2)
A bit yanked from hardocp.com (Score:3, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:3, Funny)
Blame it on the Gateway cow! (Score:5, Funny)
been telling the Gateway CEO how to run his business.
Slashbots on the Rampage (Score:3, Insightful)
Go ahead, mod me down. I've got plenty of karma points to burn.
Marketing wins again. (Score:2)
AMD needs to just suck it up and start blowing a ton of money on advertising like intel does. They need to bribe, err, encourage PC makers to advertise using AMD CPUs. They need to constantly reengineer things in senseless ways that scre consumers and make them money.
In reality, the only way AMD can last is to stop being AMD.
Re:Ouch... (Score:2)
Nope, these people will only see "Apple" or "PC". And since everyone they know will be telling them to get a PC...
Apple is (Score:3, Interesting)
And what apple has that a lot of companies do not have is an energized user base. How many people are really that excited about XP? How about a new Dell computer? These things just don't get people going like in the mac community. We're very enthusiastic about apple products and where they are going.
F-bacher
I wish people would stop saying the word recession (Score:5, Insightful)
But now, if we start talking about out economy in a negative manner, we're settings us up for "Irrational Fear," where people think the economy is worse than it really is and pull lots of money out. Just the word recession can get stock holders antsy.
One of the main reasons that several business are now having problems is that a lot of people are holding onto more of their money instead of spending it and putting these people to work. Recession -> hold onto money -> more job cuts -> more recession -> hold onto more money ->
I don't have to remind programmers what happens to their apps when they get stuck in infinite loops...
F-bacher
Re:I wish people would stop saying the word recess (Score:2)
1) Bush's point was that keeping federal taxes at record levels, higher than during World War 2, was risking recession. Which was (and still is) true. The Democrats amplified it in the news by relentlessly pounding Bush over it, which was hypocritical as hell because:
2) Remember the '92 Clinton/Gore campaign mantra about the "WORST ECONOMY IN 50 YEARS!"? Which besides being irresponsible was also a blatent lie, given the mess of the Carter Administration twelve years before.
Other than that, yup, psychology is a bitch, and I hope we don't get stuck in that negative feedback loop. It'd be nice if Bush used his current popularity to push thru both corporate welfare cuts and tax cuts, maybe even radical tax simplification (Flat Tax [house.gov]), but it's not likely to happen.
Re:I wish people would stop saying the word recess (Score:2)
Re:This doesn't mean anything! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:This doesn't mean anything! (Score:2)
Go run an intense numerical simulation (FPU and integer at the same time) on it, like one that takes an hour, and generates a large output, and then compare it to when you run it at normal clock speed.
I don't mean Prime95 or Seti@Home. I mean like a reservoir simulator.
Re:This doesn't mean anything! (Score:3, Insightful)
Granted the thermal protection is a pretty major oversight on AMDs part, but it's not the killer feature in my book. I consider low cost and performance to be the killer features of a processor.
My advice: Install a good heatsink correctly the first time and pocket the difference.
Sigtalk (Score:2)
Re:Engineering Acumen vs. Market Share (Score:2, Funny)
yah, now if they could just figure out how to keep the heatsinks from falling off so that the processors don't fry [tomshardware.com] in, like, 1/4 second.
*ducks*
Re:Engineering Acumen vs. Market Share (Score:2)
The tradition continues today: AMD lives mostly off of sleazy marketing (PR ratings, anyone?) which Intel has made, and continues to make, very significant innovations (first semiconductor RAM, first microprocessor, first OOO processor, first MT processor, AGP, PCI, USB) while I can't think of a significant 'first' or industry standard which AMD invented.
Re:the bigger question.... who's left? (Score:2)
Re:Relates to previous article... (Score:2)
Crap! I've become irrelevant. Time to start a business, or turn to a life of crime.