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Honda Creates Walking Robot 130

Posted by Hemos from the now-to-simulate-knees dept.
ilyah writes: "The ever-crafty Honda engineers have apparently created a robot that can accurately walk on two legs (i.e. just like humans). Take a look at The Honda Japan site -- a Japanese site that has some pictures and videos worth looking at (hint: videos are under linked marked "04"). It's pretty awesome watching that thing walk around." If I remember correctly, they've been working on this for quite some time - like 15 - 20 years, but this is apparently one of the breakthrough steps, pun intended.
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Honda Creates Walking Robot More

Honda Creates Walking Robot

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  • Hmmm (Score:1)

    by knurr ( 161310 )
    I remeber seeing this on a show called beyond 2000 years ago...
  • When I was in Japan this summer I heard a lecture from Mitsuo Kawato, who I believe is a member of the research team. The general approach used by Kawato is called feed-forward control, and is based on the physiology of the cerebellum. Kawato argued that feed forward control has signifigant speed advantages over feed back models. Rather than botch the model by trying to explain it (I'm a brain guy, not an engineer) I'll just point you to the references: Trends in Cognitive Sciences 2:338-345 (review) Neural Networks 11:1317-1329 (equations here) Current Opinion in Neurobiology 9:718-727 Nature 403:192-195 (human application) By the way, one of the videos he showed during his lecture had the robot hitting tennis balls!

  • Here's a link [tbs.co.jp] to a movie showing the little guy do his stuff.
    The Sony Robot that is.

    Enjoy!

  • Info and Movies in english (Score:3)

    by UncleRoger ( 9456 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @11:38AM (#610304) Homepage

    This was posted a while ago, but with a different site. Try this site: http://www.honda-p3.com/ [honda-p3.com] for english text and movies and such.

  • This is a new version of Honda's P3. I got two emails from a friend in Japan this morning about this. I'll include below a few paragraphs which might give some insight for those of us who can't read Japanese.

    From what I've heard, Honda is interested in developing a market for robots to take care of the elderly. Making the robot lighter is a good step in that direction. (You don't want your robot to stumble and crush you.) This new robot is walking a lot more fluidly. I think the weight reduction has a lot to do with that. Sony, on the other, is interested in bipeds simply for the entertainment value. The Sony videos are great.

    (Here are the emails)

    ***
    Yesterday in Japan, there was a sensational press release of the Honda's new humanoid called "ASIMO" which stands for "Adaptive Step in Innovative Mobility." This robot is a new version of Honda's humanoid robot P3. According to the newspaper article, its height is 120cm and weight is 43kg. Specifically, the weight is significantly reduced compared to the previous one. It is equipped with tendon-driven five-fingerd hands. In addition to straight walk, it is even capable of walk on a figure eight by changing direction without stopping.

    ***
    Sony also developed a small biped robot called "SDR-3X." The height is 50cm and its weight is only 5kg, and this robot has 24 joints. This robot is capable of walking at the speed of 0.9km/h (15m/min), turning aroud, standing up, balancing on one leg, dancing, and kicking a ball. Basically, this humanoid robot uses the same computer architecture as used in AIBO. However, they developed new actuators and motion control architecture for biped walking.
    It seems that they are thinking of selling the robot in the entertainment market in the near future at the price of a compact car.

  • Wasn't this featured in Wired Magazine (dead tree version) a few months ago?

    http://www.wired.com/ wir ed/archive/6.11/wired25.html?pg=12 [wired.com]

    Rampy

  • Honda's long-running research (Score:4)

    by American AC in Paris ( 230456 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @04:30AM (#610307) Homepage
    I've been casually following Honda's progress with their humanoid robot program, and this latest development seems to include at least the following (though I may have missed certain things, and certain other things may be a few months old now):
    • Greatly improved user-robot interface. Last I saw, the robot required a fairly intricate computer interface and some fairly serious developer guidance to work properly. Now, they seem to have the bulk of it hooked up to a wearable PC and game pad. Additionally, the robot is now completely wireless, which I believe wasn't the case earlier this summer. Quite the improvement over the old method.
    • Greatly improved motor control software. This model actually moves in a fluid, almost natural way. The turning is vastly improved (the robot used to be able to only execute spot turns) and they seem to pretty much have the basics of the counter-balancing swing down.
    • Improved robot design? It appears that they've tweaked the design of the robot somewhat, most noticably in the robot's backpack, which used to tower over it's shoulders like an astronaut's spacesuit. The current model looks much more "approachable" (for lack of a better way of quantifying it) and seems to have a few other cosmetic changes added (the hands, I believe, were less hand-like in the previous model, for example.) I'm not seeing the tech specs readily available in English, so I'll assume that the prototype is pretty much the same physically as the previous one, save for (quite non-trivial) space optimizations and otherwise more modern components. The fundamental design appears the same.
    • Overall Humanness. This robot actually moves in a way that I could call human-like. Yes, there are still the herky-jerks, and the arms don't quite seem to swing right, but the movement flows right. It can walk pretty much in whatever fashion it chooses, can vary it's walking pace and step length, can walk sideways and backwards, can "swing" from a side step into a front step, and does it all with stunning grace for a machine. What's more, it's moving fast now--we're talking a brisk walking pace, no more of this ponderous mechanized trudging. The old videos from this summer were impressive because the robot could successfully walk in a straight like, lean to compensate for tilting floors, and navigate up and down staircases without falling over and with minimal programmer intervention. Today, this thing's strutting around like it owns the place.
    This is some serious progress from the good folks at Honda. I'm really excited to see what the next version brings.

    $ man reality

  • Old news (Score:3)

    by Trinition ( 114758 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @04:32AM (#610308) Homepage
    There was a story on PBS at least 1 year ago on walking robots. They covered the pogo-stick walker, multi-legged walker, and of course, Honda's robots. They're actually at least on their second generation of this beast. This second one is much more life-like in its walking, smaller, lighter, faster, etc.

    The more interesting thing that I got from the special was the robot that *learned* to walk like an infant does. At power up, it is wobly and nervous. As the instructor helps it maintain its balance and catch it falls, the robot's AI (neural networked?) learns from its mistakes and improves. After a few hours, the bi-pedal contraption is able to walk on its own. That is, until it is turned off and its memory gone.

  • Whoa man, take it easy AC. The original post was obviously flamebait - but you were too fucking stupid to realize that.

    Hook, line and sinker.

  • Now, all we need is integration of this technology into the RealDoll!

  • VTEC? (Score:1)

    by mfh ( 56 )
    Is it powered by DOHC VTEC?

    Sorry.


    - Mike Hughes
  • Now we just need to get these things fighting on BattleBots
  • do you guys even read [slashdot.org] you're own fucking webpage?


    FluX
    After 16 years, MTV has finally completed its deevolution into the shiny things network
  • Gee, I remember seeing a demonstration of this robot on a feature at the Discovery Channel two years ago! They reached a breakthrough at around that time, I think...
  • What we need to do is run a Eliza client on this thing and send it to the Mall - the innocent sheeple will be convinced we'd been invaded by aliens...
  • The Japanese obviously put a lot of effort into encasing the machinery. Every time MIT shows off a robot it's a bunch of wires and cameras dangling everywhere.
  • ...bet it can't chew gum at the same time.
  • They're impressive beasts, but one has to wonder why they've spent nearly a billion dollars on this.
    Because they can? Every development starts with a small step. The world's fastest and largest planes developed from the Wright Flyer. The world's largest ships developed from a dug-out canoe or a couple of logs lashed together.
    Who knows, humanoid bipedal robots developed from these may be able to enter places too dangerous for people and save lives. - firefighting, high radiation levels, etc.
    I find it fascinating. So long as they don't fit one with a personality prototype, that is...!


    Hacker: A criminal who breaks into computer systems
  • Still got down moderated though...

  • I completely disagree. Diverse research makes for better answers. I agree that the problems of poverty, wildlife, etc are more important than the puzzle of a walking robot. However you never know when research in another field will turn out to be very usefull in another field. Science is full of times where the best use for something isn't what it was designed for. Diverse research leads to a larger body of science for the people in the "important" fields to draw on. So this robot research may seem frivouls(sp) to you but the resulting body of knowledge may have something in it to help with micro surgery techniques.

  • Tom Brokaw said last night that "Honda promises to use them for good, not for evil." Kinda scary that they even considered using them for evil.....
  • The original [slashdot.org] /. story had an english link.
  • Not only was this posted before (right here) [slashdot.org] but I think it was also a quickie at one point... do the slashdot people not read slashdot?
  • Having discussed extensively design possibilities with the big walker operator and worked a bit on a Walking robot repairs with him while with SRL (www.srl.org), I can attest that the Honda robot is definately an impressive achievement. Stable walking is difficult enough on tripedal and quadropedal robots, and the hacking done at SRL only succeeded in 2 and 3 legged robots, with not much hill-climbing ability, and only moderate speeds. The feedback circuitry and balancing techniques needed for a biped like the Honda robot is, sadly, not yet within reach of even the sophisticated hackers without a ton of money.

    The Honda robot [honda.com] qualifies as an "impressive start"... its 2.0km/h speed of the Honda robot is not impressive for a lightweight tri or quad walker, but it is for a bipedal robot of human size.
    The fact that it can climb stairs is especially cool, given the extensive rebalancing done every moment in a step, and the feedback sensors needed to read these motions properly.

    Certainly there are lifting robots which can hoist many tons, so the 5.0kg/hand weight limit seems skimpy - but not when considering that this machine can allegedly walk and perform complex arm manipulations while holding this weight. Sadly, its continuous runtime before recharge is only 30 minutes, but I suspect later versions will take advantage of increasing innovation in charge/weight ratios in batteries, and perhaps solar panels for space use (an obvious application of these robots would be EVAs for the ISS [nasa.gov] or other craft).

    Cool, in terms of integration with other systems, is the use of wireless ethernet as the comm standard, rather than some proprietary system. This means this robot could be controlled by base-station systems of arbitrary complexity - including a Beowulf [beowulf.org] cluster running a complex AI system like Webmind [webmind.com]. This means that while technology is not quite there yet to put any advanced computational intelligence inside a biped robot, it can be controlled by advanced systems running at fixed-position stations through LAN technology - a good compromise in terms of merging the state-of-the-art in Robotics with AI to try to build towards a better convergence.

    Regarding the robustness, it appears that the 25 minutes of runtime is the primary limitation in terms of continuous operation - there is no data I was able to find on failure rates or the fault tolerance of the sensors or computational systems on-board.

    As for hacks vs. new general purpose algorithsm... They obviously do not reveal tremendous amounts of details, but suffice it to say that the engineering done to build 3 successive models of bipedal robots that can walk and climb (stairs, hills) represents fundamental work in robot dynamics engineering which, while parameter tweaked for this robot's operations, is certainly applicable (with some tweaks or modifications, as with all engineering techniques) to other bipedal robot applications.

    The wireless lan comm technology, improved user interface (over the previous version), and sensor systems are all also certainly reusable in similar robots (indeed, likely also in multi-legged robots).

    However, as it is a commercial product AND I do not read Japanese, I was not able to find any papers on specific algorithms to give a more detailed analysis...

    Here are some useful resources I did find:

    The official site in English [honda.com]

    An article about the robot's walking functions [panmanee.com]

    Images of the robot at UIUC [uiuc.edu]

    Biped Robots in General [caltech.edu]

    Robodex Robotics Conference [robodex.org]

  • After a few hours, the bi-pedal contraption is able to walk on its own. That is, until it is turned off and its memory gone.

    This would not have been a problem if they'd built a bicycling robot...

    This story was on the local TV news; IMHO, the robot is a bit too human-like - put a small person in a space suit, teach them to "wiggle" in a cute, AIBO-like manner, and could anyone tell the difference? (I'm sure there was/is/will be a law against this - Bladerunner, anyone?)
  • Wow, you guys must be pretty hard up for posts if you posted something as old as this on here. I read about this robot and some of its predecessors about a year ago. I also have seen a show on TV (Discovery Channel I think) that was on this and some other robots, but Honda seems to have the best walking robot right now. While It does make for interesting conversation, this news is old news, and while I have seen old news on here before, this pretty much takes the cake for old and moldy Slashdot material. Just my $0.02

  • Of course. Didn't you see the big spoiler and the fat tailpipe on it? :)


    --
    Turn on, log in, burn out...

  • poop (Score:1)

    by meebs ( 12692 )
    he looks like he's gotta take a dump.
  • I defy you to find any other bipedal robot that can navigate stairs. You imply that Honda is making a big secret of the fact that the gait is programmed specifically for one set of stair dimensions...guess you didn't see this web page

    http://www.honda-p3.com/english/html/frameset2.h tml and click on Capabilities

    that points out that specific fact, in eengrish even.

    The Honda bipedal robots are the most sophisticated on the planet. You might not look so foolish dogging on them when you come up with something better.

  • I remember about 4 years or so ago, seeing QT movies on the HONDA site of this model's grandfather which was just the waist and two legs moving around.....they hadn't made or put the torso on yet....it was awesome, watching two robot legs (attached to the waist of course) walking up and down stairs and kicking a ball and even running!!!!

    GO HONDA!!!! my dreams are in your hands!

    Jak Din
  • Interesting that they choose to name by drawing tribute to Isaac Asimov.

    Maybe not. "Ashi mo" (which can also be romanized Asimo) means "Legs too!" in Japanese.

    Cheers,
    -j.

  • Sorry....this robot has no connection to Issac Asimov....ASIMO stands for:

    "Advanced Step in Innovative Mobility"

    Don't believe me? Check out this image:
    http://www.honda.co.jp/ASIMO /e nqu ete/image/dv_s.jpg [honda.co.jp]

    Jak Din
  • This is awesome, you've gotta watch these two clips. One shows old footage of their research, older models; and the second one is a fabulous bit with the robots playing soccer!!!

    1. http://www.honda.co.jp/realse rve r/video/robot64.rm [honda.co.jp]

    2. http://www.honda.co.jp/re als erver/video/robocupdown.rm [honda.co.jp]

    later,
    Jak Din

  • So would you if you had that power-pack-backpack strapped to your back!

    :)

    Jak Din

  • Damn!!! I should be hung for that...the proper spelling is: Isaac Asimov

    sorry Mr. Asimov

    :(

    Jak Din
  • I'll be impressed when they teach it to ride a bicycle.

  • Re:Priorities (Score:3)

    by American AC in Paris ( 230456 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @04:52AM (#610338) Homepage
    All i can think is, what an intense waste of brainpower. Instead of spending 15 or 20 years working on walking robots and fighting male pattern baldness, wouldn't this mental exertion be better served eradicating poverty, preserving endangered wildlife and habitats and developing cures for diseases like cancer?

    ...and all I can think is, what on Earth is someone of this mindset doing reading Slashdot? Talk about your intense waste of brainpower...

    But, on a more serious note: What happens if Honda gets to the point where they produce a robot capable of digging wells and planting crops in underdeveloped, potentially hazardous countries? What happens if Honda manages to develop a robot that can act as a lab assistant, routinely, tirelessly and accurately performing a wide range of menial yet necessary tasks in a lab environment? Sure, it's too advanced to be able to accurately predict something like this coming along today, but the very essence of science is the pursuit of being able to do and understand things we currently cannot do or understand. Today, this thing is just a prototype that can saunter across a studio floor. Another fifty years, it may be able to run for weeks on end with minimal human intervention, able to do a huge array of tasks that would require fairly heavy human intervention today.

    Just as the pioneers of computing could have no way of accurately predicting the impact computers would have on the world fifty years later, the Honda engineers can have no way of knowing what will become of their robot in another 50 years. Rest assured, though, that they, like the computing pioneers, are serious scientists and serious dreamers...

    $ man reality

  • Cool, but which one would win in a robot battle to the death!?
  • just a thought, but what practical use does this actually have? robots that don't follow the human design are so much more efficient.
  • I would like to recommend the book "Robo Sapiens: Evolution of a new species" (released by MIT press this fall) for all robotics geeks out there. It is a very interesting book with lots of great photography surveing the state of the art in a pop science way. The Honda P-series is only one of many projects with its own section in that book. They cover everything from basement hobbyists to multi millon dollar corporation project.

    Salon.com published a review [salon.com] recently.


    Lars
    __

  • Here's a possible application:

    Instead of a robot, turn it into an exoskeleton for the disabled. Kind of like that smart wheelchair described in Wired. Of course, it should be able to fire small missiles and jump over at least 10 feet of razor-wired fencing.
  • Some time ago I read an article on bipedal robotics that said that the guys at honda used data from movements of real people to make their robots look as if they moved like a human. It is not a inherent smoothness that results from the way this thing is constructed. Humans actually use much less energy for the same movements because they use the natural swing of their legs. But it looks cool anyway.

    By the way, I would like to see those new movies but I can see only mpegs on my linux machine. Does anybody know how I can see quicktime movies on linux?

  • Yeah. Great. Remember the whole Terminator storyline? I kept saying "but we don't have walking robots yet!" This'll teach me. skynet/AOL-TimeWarner-Netscape pretty much done. we got like what, a year or 2? start rounding up the Connors......
  • All we need now is for Honda to create one that looks like a beautiful girl, who'll do anything for you when you tell her to. Man I need my viagra!
  • Okay, this RealVid [honda.co.jp] shows the intermediate forms I wanted. But I still think there's some sleight of hand going on, making it look much more competent than it really is.
  • Offtopic ?? Stupid Moderator....

  • You might not look so foolish

    he, funny, I don't feel foolish.

    Suppose it's possible that I know something you don't know?

    nah, never.


    ____
  • Let's compare the stats, shall we? They're both technically Heavyweights [battlebots.com] as the P3's a StompBot, however, I think that Biohazard's low center of gravity gives him a definate advantage.
  • stop, your both right.
  • That dosen't mean it was an accident that the name is very close to Asimov. With such a stupid acronym they probably came up with it after naming it Asimo.

    Names are cooler when they have multiple meanings:

    • Someone posted that Asimo means "Legs too" in Japanese
    • There's the acronym "Advanced Step in Innovative Mobility"
    • And there is the similarity to Asimov
    Maybe this was their plan:
    • Asimo I
    • Asimo II
    • Asimo III
    • Asimo IV
    • ASIMOV!
  • Because arms are used for balance. Try walking around on ice with your hands in your pockets.
  • For starters, walking is hard enough that it takes the most advanced computational systems in the world about a year to figure out how to walk at all, and another several years to do it gracefully.

    The human foot does an insane number of adjustments every second to keep you standing on it. You're right that emulating the inner ear's balance sensor would solve the problem. But that means you have to understand the inner ear (and what the brain does with that data) first, and we're not there yet.

  • But that means you have to understand the inner ear (and what the brain does with that data) first, and we're not there yet.

    Hmmm. You know, standing on one foot here and thinking about it, it makes me wonder if the inner ear is more of an accelerometer rather than a gravity sensor (which is what I've always assumed). It's a *much* more complicated problem to take into account head alignment and figure if you're tipping than to just figure out which way your head is moving back and forth.

    Actually, I think it might be both. If I get grossly out of alignment and am about to fall, it feels "different" than when I'm making only fine balance corrections. I bet gravity is used to get us close to upright, and then acceleration is used to keep us there.

    I bet it will take a combination of both approaches. There are laser-based acceleratomers that are extremely accurate. I wonder if anyone has tried using both?


    --

  • Sony has also developed a 2 legged robot. Aibo 3rd Generation?

    The page is in Japanese, but you can still see some cool pictures. Check it out! [aibotown.com]

  • Al Gore's looking more and more human every day.

    (Joke blatantly 'borrowed' from last night's Tonight Show.)

    ---
  • I'm not sure if i saw the same video as everybody else, but a while ago when i was looking form information on this cool motorcycle (honda X-WING) that is not available outside of japan, i stumbled across a robot video while plowing through the japanese site. In any case, the cool thing i saw was this guy walking up to the robot, putting his hand on it's forhead and pushing it backwards, and it walked backwards to keep it's balance, and then when he stopped pushing it and it swayed, braced itself, and rearanged iself for better balance. It really moved LIKE A PERSON! It was so cool...
  • Science is full of times where the best use for something isn't what it was designed for.


    No it's not. These extremely rare cases you speak of just make better headlines than small and incremental milestones achieved in more important research.


    Diverse research leads to a larger body of science for the people in the "important" fields to draw on.


    If scientists can even make the association. With so much superflous, corperate-driven research going on around the world, finding an answer to an extremely complex problem (in a radically unrelated study no less) is like finding a needle in a haystack.

    the resulting body of knowledge may have something in it to help with micro surgery techniques.



    I was thinking prosthetic limb enhancements was a more logical correlation, but i'll buy that.

  • heh (Score:1)

    by British ( 51765 )
    I know I'm gonna get modded down heavy...

    Stileproject.com reported this already. Of course, Jay Stile added in the comment of "Shit eating capabilities to be added in later."(big inside joke)
  • but can it cook or mow the lawn... that'd be useful.

  • Well, since Sony's robot is only 20 inches high, and Honda's robot is human-sized...

  • Asimo's true identity (Score:3)

    by micromoog ( 206608 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @06:40AM (#610362)
    KILROY!
  • The main practical use of bipedal robot research looks forward to the Jetsons-esque idea of robots in the home to assist with chores, help watch the kids, etc. Sure, there are more efficient forms for the robot, but a bipedal design is much more versitile because it moves the same way that we do. A major problem for wheeled/track-driven robots are that they've often had limited success with stairs, varied floor surfaces, etc. Since houses are designed for humans who (mostly) walk on 2 legs, a bipedal design for a robot makes it much less prone to problems moving around in an environment designed for bipedal humans to walk in.
  • Video of this was on the Discovery channel several years ago, this isn't new. Very, VERY erie watching the thing negotiate stairs with aplomb, I must say.
  • Is: "Anything that can be used for sex and anything else, will be used for sex".

    I can imagine the fake Visa adds already:

    Tube of hydraulic fluid: $15
    Honda robot: $9000
    Your name becomes a sexual verb: Priceless
  • Seen it before! [slashdot.org]

    Sl ashdot is becoming worse than the BBC for repeats :-)
  • Asimov answered this.

    The world is built for humans. Cars, buildings, everything. It's all designed to fit our bodies and to fit the way we do things.

    By developing really smart robots that have the same shape and movement as us, we can then make all of our other machines cheap and stupid. We will then have one really smart and expensive robot that can independently operate any number of cheap, stupid machines. An example is a house robot: One smart humanoid house robot could vacuum, dust, do the laundry, dishes, answer the door, etc... using the same tools that already exist today and are designed for our use. Robots are plug-n-play. Also, psychologically, people can more easily anthropomorphize a humanoid robot and will be more easily accepted by society at large.

    Steven

  • Some time ago I read an article on bipedal robotics that said that the guys at honda used data from movements of real people to make their robots look as if they moved like a human. It is not a inherent smoothness that results from the way this thing is constructed. Humans actually use much less energy for the same movements because they use the natural swing of their legs. But it looks cool anyway.

    This would explain why it looks like a total hoax, with a crouching guy in there. (I still want to see proof that it's not.)

    But if it's just 'playback' then it's not even AI-- it can't possibly adapt to changed terrain... right?

  • Wrong answer - bong! Thank you for playing. The Three Laws were in the original stories --- right the way back to Runaround. The law that got added later (and forced an amendment to be made to each of the original 3) was the Zeroth Law. Kinda like the way thermodynamics progresses, really.
  • I was passing this link around several years ago... put out a press release on the latest version and suddenly it is NEW news. Being that I saw a video running on CNN, I was sure to see this reposted today. However old, I love to go back time and time again to continue to marvel at the technology.
  • This new one, the Asimo is FAR more impressive than the P3. The main improvement (other than the more natural walking ability, of course) is that they have dramatically reduced the weight. According to their website [honda.com] the P2 weighs 210kg (~462lbs) and the P3 weighs 130kg (~286 lbs). The Asimo drops that down to *43*kg (~95 lbs). With a dextrous, humanoid robot that weighs less than an average adult human, you can bet that NASA is going to look at this kind of thing for work on the ISS.
  • It's not an american robot. It probably can lower his eyes, through.
  • Domo Arrigato, Mr Roboto...

  • I agree with you that there is more to this that meets the "eye", especially when it comes to anticipating terrain (pun intended). Trying to walk with your eyes closed tells you how much of a visual component there is that you don't realize.

    See this message [slashdot.org] for some thoughts I just had about the balance sensor problem...


    --

  • Put your money where your mouth is. What is it you know?

    Or don't...and know that all you're doing is wanking on Slashdot...
  • Nice, I like the possibilities there!!!!

    I don't really know about ASIMO meaning "Legs Too".....in Japanese, the word for 'leg' is ASHI (but I know that Japanese always make the mistake when spelling in Roman Letters), so you might be right.....

    :)

    Jak Din

  • ...think there's some sleight of hand going on...

    hmm. could be, but I'm going to the Robot Convention in YOKOHAMA this weekend, where they are going to/are showing off all the various robots from Sony, Honda, etc.....so when I'll maybe post something about.

    Jak Din

  • A walking robote is fine... (Score:3)

    by meckardt ( 113120 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @05:53AM (#610378) Homepage

    But can it flail its arms around and say "Danger! Danger Will Robinson!" That is the true mark of a great robot.

  • I would think so .. He is considered by many to be a "father figure" to robotics designers with his 2 laws (the 3rd being added later).
  • you mean this [slashdot.org] walking honda robot featured on slashdot back in july?
  • They're impressive beasts, but one has to wonder why they've spent nearly a billion dollars on this. For improving mass production techniques? Possibly, but there are surely better ways. As transport of the future? Hardly.

    The idea of a humanoid robot is one that has gripped our culture with fascination for nearly a century (Metropolis, Star Wars, etc.) The reason these robots don't exist is because the enormous amount of development needed to create even a crappy one served as a barrier to entry.

    Apparently Honda sees this as a growth industry in the future, and wants first mover advantage into this field. Who wouldn't want a monopoly on artificial slave labor? Or being the sole supplier of mecha-infantry to the risk averse US Army?
  • Check out this link for a complete English press release: Honda One-Ups Furby [motorcycle.com]
  • ...as soon as it can transform into a Civic.

  • Uses for this
    • Space Travel... Space ships would be lighter (less need for O2/Food if half or more of the crew is robotic)...
    • Working in nuclear plants (less chance of radiation poisoning)...
    • Deep space exploration (less chance of "death" to a human)...
  • ...is Honda making the source code for the Three Laws available?

  • A question to any robotics experts out there... or heck, any mechanical engineer.

    Why is walking so hard? It seems to me that the secret is having a balance sensor similar to the inner ear. If it has movable feet, then you use the balance sensor to keep the robot upright. Once you have that, then it seems like it's just a matter of kicking it forward. As long as it keeps one leg moving forward and keeps the other foot adjusting for balance, you should have natural walking motion.

    Clearly it's not this easy, otherwise it would have been done long ago. What's wrong with this solution?


    --

  • You're right. Asimo is the successor to P3 which is the '3rd prototype' of Honda's humanoid robot. I think that the most significant improvement is downsizing. While P3 has over 100 kilogram weight (it is capable of killing a human by tumbling on), Asimo's weight is just 43 kilogram.

    You can look a demonstration of Asimo in below link.
    http://www.zdnet.co.jp/gamespot/gsnews/0011/20/i mages/asimo.mpg

    Sony's SDR-3X is impressive also. It is just 50 centimeter tall and 5 kilogram weight. And it can kick a soccerball and dance on one leg. You can look some pictures of SDR-3X in below link (but Japanese).
    http://www.zdnet.co.jp/news/0011/21/sony.html
  • First off, I admit I can very easily be proved wrong in this.

    But I've been downloading trans-oceanic quicktimes for the past couple of hours (at 28.8) and I still think it's a hoax.

    Depictions of robots in sci-fi movies have always had the problem that they skip over the 'intermediate forms' between obviously-not-human and much-too-realistically human-with-a-few-small-flaws. And as far as I can see Honda's materials commit the same sin-- where are the intermediate forms???

    A real example of an intermediate form [shadow.org.uk]

    If you see a demo that in every detail resembles a person crouched in a special suit... what does Occam's razor say you should conclude?

    Why did they need to give it a humanoid torso and arms? Why do these also move exactly like the human versions? Why is the head concealed in a visor, if not to give their actor a way to look around? Why do the P3 quicktimes [honda-p3.com] show only the cliched, anonymous box-with-blinking-lights inside, instead of showing off the real high-tech in the legs?

    PROVE ME WRONG, PLEASE!

    My page of robotics links [robotwisdom.com] if you're interested.

  • Robot (Score:3)

    by invid ( 163714 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @04:07AM (#610393)
    But can it chew gum at the same time?
  • I've seen the video of this baby, and I've got to admit that it looks really impressive. However, the media reports I saw didn't really get into the "how did they do it". So:
    • How robust is it?
    • What clever hardware is used?
    • Is the software "clever new algorithms" or a collection of special-purpose hacks not applicable beyond this particular robot.
    • If it's clever new algorithms, what are they?

    Answers on a postcard please . . . :)


  • Put some breasts on this thing, teach it a few new tricks, and we will have a winner!
  • Interesting that they choose to name by drawing tribute to Isaac Asimov.
  • *agree* on the flamebait poster. I wouldn't have the first idea about biology stuff like cancer research, but I can do the software just fine. So I'll spend my life doing software, thanks all the same. And who says it's not valuable? In 20 years time, when they give you your prosthetic legs to replace the ones you lost in a road accident, be glad they were doing this research!

    But as for the "what happens when..?" question above, the answer is: we adapt. The implication is that we need to consider how it's going to affect us b4 we develop it. But we can't, and shouldn't, let that hold up developments which will improve the lives of everyone. The lobby groups were out in force when the car was invented - they reckoned it would spell the end of horses and everyone involved in that. And it did... but that doesn't mean we should have reconsidered allowing cars to be developed.

    And BTW, the original cars were merely expensive, unreliable and slow toys. It took a couple of decades from the first working example b4 they were as fast as a horse, and another couple of decades b4 they were as affordable as a horse. And it took several years of work to get that first example working. Compare and contrast to the first human-size walking robot, which took several years to get working, and is still a slow, expensive toy...

    Grab.
  • The fact that it can climb stairs is especially cool, given the extensive rebalancing done every moment in a step, and the feedback sensors needed to read these motions properly.

    Well...

    You're right, the ability to climb stairs with a bipedal robot is impressive, but when you find out they programmed it specifically for those steps it becomes a little bit less impressive.

    The Honda engineers, in fact, admitted that if the steps were changed by only an inch in width the robot wouldn't be able to handle them. Instead of sensing it's environment there, it's just reverting to a subroutine for those steps. The thing that stinks is that they pull it off without anyone knowing. I might go so far as to say that it reeks.

    But ya, the fact that they're walking on two legs in the first place is pretty cool. Now if only it didn't walk like a stick was up it's butt. :)


    ____
  • I do research in this field; Honda's robot demo dates back to July, I believe. If you're interested, you can also check out MIT's [mit.edu] project, or NASA's [nasa.gov] project.

    In general, these humanoid robots are NOT meant for physical research: building legs, as cool as it is, is not a new thing. Instead, these are research PLATFORMS, designed to test new theories in artificial cognition. The thinking, quite simply, is thus: if we want a robot to act like a human, it has to perceive the world (and interact with it) as a human does. Therefore, you equip it with sensors akin to ours (eyes, ears, touch), program the drivers and such (so that the robot knows it CAN see, CAN hear, CAN touch), and then you teach the hell out of it. Fun stuff!

  • Re:Why is walking so hard? (Score:3)

    by paRcat ( 50146 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @08:45AM (#610413)
    Well, you're right, it's seems easy. But where will you get this magical 'balance sensor'?

    Aceleration/tilt sensors are used very often, sometimes a gyro, and there has even been talk of using an internal pendulum system for balance feedback. Using a system like this is a fairly good way of getting a walking biped. The problems arise when you don't have a level surface for your biped to walk on.

    To perfectly mimic human walking, each leg would need 6 or more degrees of freedom. 2 for the hip, 1 for the knee, 3 for the ankle.

    So imagine you have a bipedal robot that has a correct walk including hip movements for the transfer of balance between each leg. Now tilt the surface by a few degrees. Suddenly one leg needs to move less than the other, suddenly the ankle needs to change it's orientation so that the foot strikes the ground correctly, etc.

    Now take this scenario to a rapidly changing surface such as a hill or rocky terrain. You can see how bad it could get.

    But you would think that if you have a correct walking algorithm, no matter what surface you're on you would be able to adjust it for a good walking gait. Unfortunately, the robot needs some way of knowing what it will be stepping on before it ever does. It also needs to react quickly to feedback from sensors on it's feet and legs to adjust to anything it's previous scan didn't pick up correctly.

    Because of the many factors, digital walking still has to get to the point where the computer can do all of this on the fly.

    I think right now analog walking is the way to go. Analog creatures already walk quickly and easily on 4 legs, and it's easier to adapt them to two legs. It's just waiting on the right kind of sensors. My 4 legged bots are doing well, but I don't have enough money to work on a biped right now.

    Oh well... hope this might help.


    ____
  • This is not Honda's first robot project - they have been working on them for almost two decades, and have spent hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D. Earlier versions include the P2 (1996), and the P3 [honda-p3.com] (1997). As an idea of their progress, here [honda.com] are Honda's specifications for the P2 and P3.

    They're impressive beasts, but one has to wonder why they've spent nearly a billion dollars on this. For improving mass production techniques? Possibly, but there are surely better ways. As transport of the future? Hardly.

  • Sony too. (Score:3)

    by bmongar ( 230600 ) on Tuesday November 21, 2000 @04:15AM (#610420)

    In an article [yahoo.com] off yahoo [yahoo.com] it appears that Sony too has a walking bot.

  • They gave it a humaniod torso because the PR value of Yet Another Tethered Insect is marginal.

    The real hoax, I think, is that this is a mechanical engineering achievement, not a leap forward in robotics -- notice how smooth the stage was? Adjust the angle of the stairs or put a bump in the floor and watch the thing fall on its ass.

    That's not real robotics if it can't handle the real world.
  • [troll? Anyway.]

    No, that was an earlier version: the P3. This is just the latest in a line of Honda robots starting with the P2. The Slashdot article [slashdot.org] you refer to is concerned with the P3.

    It's not terribly clear, probably because it's in Japan, but they are different things.

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