Netscape 6.0 Released 272
Dave writes: "The first non-beta release of Netscape 6.0 has made its way onto the Netscape FTP server. The Windows, Linux and Mac versions are currently available. The version in the directory pointed to is a network installer. If you want to download all the files in one go then go into the 'sea' directory. However, for a more cutting edge browser then grab the latest nightly builds from Mozilla.org, the Mozillazine builds page tells you which nightly builds are worth downloading." And Mozilla doesn't draw the same standards-compliance critiques as Netscape 6.0 does, either.
Why Netscape 6 matters (Score:2)
Should ns6 be buggy or slow or nonstandard or whatever it will turn people off to free software. (sad, but true.) Furthermore, and perhaps more important to free software developers, mozilla is the flagship example of freeing the source of a commercial project. Should Mozilla fail, the chances of other companies opening up the source to thier projects dwindles. If someone were to suggest it they would just say that "they don't want to create another mozilla."
Mozilla's been tough for all involved, but it's an experiment we can't really afford to loose.
Speaking of standards conformance, last time I checked MSIE's User-Agent violates the HTTP specification.
Re:Is there a future for Netscape? Of course! (Score:2)
I've seen this happen in the past on NT4.0 with shoddy display drivers, and for whatever reason it only happens with some applications.
I would bet that if you update your drivers, the problem will magically go away. In any case, many other millions of people use IE without any of these display problems.
Re:Not out yet... (Score:1)
The directory was created just last night around 5pm....not quite an age.
Let Mozilla do the work automatically (Score:2)
Click on the appropriate button and the JRE will download and install itself. You _may_ have to restart the browser (I think newer nightly builds don't even make you restart the browser, but not sure) to get Mozilla to use the JRE, but it will now be installed.
Re:NS6 vsMozilla (Score:3)
You should download a nightly build... they are already faster and more stable than M18.
"Free your mind and your ass will follow"
Jon Erikson's a Troll ! (Score:1)
Re:Give Mozilla a chance (Score:2)
And nightly builds are (IMHO) better. Try them, if you have a broadband connection.
Anyone that did not download anything after M16, should give it another try. It is still visually ugly, have a slow interface (but a fast rendering), is not as nice as IE on macos, but can definitely be used for everyday browsing (I, for one, dropped IE for Mozilla).
And it can only get better if people use it.
Cheers,
--fred
Re:Netscape vs windows (Score:1)
Re:Premature? (Score:1)
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Why you might want the version with integrated AIM (Score:2)
If you install AIM 4, you waive your right to use free(speech) third-party clients!
There's a clause in the AIM 4.x license that states roughly, "You may not use third-party clients on the AIM servers," which is why I clicked Cancel instead of Agree in the AIM 4 installer and downloaded a Jabber client [sourceforge.net] for my winbox.
Re:What a great start (Score:1)
Netscape 6™. (Score:3)
Re:oops (Score:1)
After puting a new HDD in (with exactly the same dual-boot config on it) the problem disappear. So, it may be a hardware problem after all.
Regards,
M.
Https on Moz (Score:4)
Yeah, I've been using M18 (or nightly builds of it, actually) as my primary browser on Linux for a while now. It still doesn't have https support so I have to use Njetscape 4.7 to access ecommerce sites, but that's about the only thing I still use NS for.
Assumming you are running on either Windows, Solaris or Linux, you can 'Install PSM' from the 'Debug' Menu at the top of the screen. Scroll down the web page and click the appropriate button for your OS (or load the package in manually for Solaris). If all goes well, you should see the package load in and your should get a successful XPInstall message. It would be nice to see some more OS's supported - at least MacOS is pending and a BSD-compatible version and some for other Unix platforms and architectures would be nice. Maybe there is room for an OpenSource PSM project.
PSM is good enough that I've successfully ordered plane tickets using it, and can quite comfortably browse Sourceforge in SSL mode.
Cheers,
Toby Haynes
Emacs (Score:1)
Not out yet... (Score:3)
Frankly, I hope this isn't a sign of an impending release. NS6 is not ready. It needs another month; that's all it would take to fix the very few remaining standards bugs (need I remind some of you here that it doesn't even quite get DOM Level Zero right; even Netscape4 could do that).
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Re:Https on Moz (Score:1)
support on M18 that simply, I was under the impression that they were still working on it. Silly me.
Thanks!
Re:Mozilla? Netscape? (Score:2)
<p>Have you used Opera's Linux beta 2? I'm using it now, and it hasn't hiccuped on me once. It's blazingly fast: Even better than MSIE under windows. And as for Qt: I'd be willing to bet that Opera+Qt is smaller than Netscape 6 or Mozilla...
What about plugins? (Score:1)
Mainly the Flash 4 plug-in for Netscape in Linux, I like to go to a site that use alot of Flash you know. Hey I have to keep netscape when it comes to something like that you know.
Java finally works! (Score:2)
I've been using mozilla nightly builds for a while and java support has always caused the browser to crash. Finally, with netscape6 java support *seems* to work!
Netscape6: Observations...
Here is a list of every process it started on my machine: ./netscape ./run-mozilla.sh ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin ./mozilla-bin
$ ps | aux | grep -iE "(netscape)|(mozilla)|(java)"
m 6332 0.0 0.8 2056 1036 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00 sh
m 6334 0.0 0.8 2104 1096 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00 sh
m 6338 6.9 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:31 0:50
m 6340 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00
m 6341 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00
m 6342 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:31 0:00
m 6359 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00
m 6361 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00
m 6362 0.0 24.4 47360 31164 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00
m 6343 0.2 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:31 0:02 java_vm
m 6344 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6345 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6346 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6347 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6348 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6349 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6350 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6351 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6352 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6353 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6354 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6355 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6356 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6357 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6358 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:32 0:00 java_vm
m 6373 0.0 16.3 181272 20760 pts/1 S 08:33 0:00 java_vm
Seems a little excessive, but hey... maybe thats progress...
On a side note does anyone know how to start konquerer w/o having it start any kde stuff? It seems like a much better choice than netscape/mozilla and uses less resources. I just wish it was a stand alone component. KDE gives me the willies.
Re:Can you say easy to install boys and girls . . (Score:2)
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JAVA on linux nightlies (Score:2)
Re:Conspiracy (Score:2)
--
Can you even play MP3s on that thing?
Re:Is there a future for Netscape? (Score:2)
--
Obfuscated e-mail addresses won't stop sadistic 12-year-old ACs.
Re:Is anyone actually going to use Netscape? (Score:2)
If I had a better mail client, I would spend much more time in OS X. Since Netscape 6 is built for Linux, how difficult a port would this be? And if it was released for OS X, that would be just one less reason to use MSFT products on my machine--including, dare I say, my browser.
Re:Can you say easy to install boys and girls . . (Score:2)
the original poster is talking about Mozilla nightlies which don't come with PSM nor Java.
The Netscape 6.0 release includes both automatically.
--
The world is divided in two categories:
those with a loaded gun and those who dig. You dig.
konqueror (Score:2)
AOL for Linux (Score:2)
In fact, here is (until Geocities take it away) [geocities.com]. It's a 10Mb zipfile (!), which contains four [Red Hat] packages and a Perl script to install them [AOL, AOLfonts, and 2 GTK packages you probably already have].
AOL also have absolutely no idea of Linux filesystems either. The silly people put the entire app [libraries, binaries, docs] in
mkdir
ln -s
First.
Oh, and the README forgot to mention you need to add
Here's a screenshot [geocities.com] in the meantime. Geocities will probably take this down soon, but I don't expect a speedy response.
Why? (Score:2)
Netscape is no better then Microsoft when it comes to browsers, except Microsoft beat Netscape at their own game when it came to proprietary HTML extensions: Microsoft's were better.
Now we have not quite done spyware.
Nah, I'll take Mozilla, thank you.
Its been getting better (Score:3)
Take a look at m9, and then take a look at m18. The progress is astounding, in that m18 is almost useful as a regular browser on my Pentium 233.
Browsing with an application framework (Score:2)
I don't want to surf the web from inside a complete application development environment!
I don't care if the entire interface can be customized with XUL! I don't care if you can write a pacman game that runs inside my web browser. And I definitely don't care if you can write a Unix shell that runs in my web browser. I just want the rendering widget itself to be powerful and, if possible, fairly efficient.
All these gtkmozembed browsers are a nice step, but gecko still makes any application pretty hungry for resources.
Re:Strategy and Needed Standards (Score:2)
Netscape doesn't have MathML. Mozilla does. In fact, this is the essential difference between Netscape 6 and Mozilla at this stage.
But I agree with the fact that I hope MathML will replace this obsolete and obfuscated TeX format in future mathematical publications.
As for the "soon to be followed", I hope you're saying that tongue-in-cheek. Goldbach's conjecture may be just around the corner (but nobody's interested in it, anyway), but the Riemann hypothesis is as far as ever. Nobody ever made any kind of progress towards proving it (Deligne's proof of the Riemann hypothesis on varieties in characteristic p doesn't count, because it's a local result that's completely trivial in the classical case).
Re:Is anyone actually going to use Netscape? (Score:2)
Netscape 6, or Mozilla, is not built for anything in particular. Mozilla was specifically designed to be very cross-platform, and so it isn't actually native to any operating system. I know there there already is a Mac port, but since it uses a cross-platform toolkit, it won't use Aqua like a native Max OS X app. If you really need pretty widgets, I'm sure sooner or later someone will write a native frontend for the Mozilla browser, such as Galeon [sourceforge.net] for Gnome and K-Meleon [kmeleon.org] for Windows.
Re:I thought mozilla=netscape (Score:2)
Personally, I don't mind if netscape 6 is
Sadly, the way that people think is that netscape 6.0 is the same as mozilla, and when netscape 6.0 fails, or gets too critisized, I wouldn't doubt if aol just gives up, throws netscape down the crapper, and kills the mozilla project. Yes, mozilla is OSS but (from what I understand) they have financial backing from aol/netscape for developers. Even if they don't, the nice mozilla organization as we know it will probably get a kick in the head if aol decides to kill them off.
I know netscape isn't mozilla, and I know which is crap and which is coming along nicely. But does your mom? dad? grandparents? The ones that are the other 80% of the websurfers out there.
Of course, even if mozilla does die I'll probably keep on using my nightly builds, even if they're stuck on november 9th
from netscape.public.mozilla.general (Score:5)
>
> Clarence (Andreas M. Schneider) wrote:
>
[
> > Clarence wrote:
> > > ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/
]
> > Now "Permission denied" (before my download was complete).
>
> It took me several attempts, but at about 12:20 AM, I was able to grab
> all the components and install.
Be careful. We have not announced the product yet, and typically pre-push
various candidate builds just to test out the distribution mechanism and
site. What you got may not end up being the final bits.
I recommend that when the final bits are actually released you should
compare the date stamp in your user agent with someone who did download the
final bits and make sure they are the same. If they differ I'd recommend
re-installing the real release because the fixes we've accepted in the past
week have been really serious ones (security exploits and things of about
that level).
-Dan Veditz
(Dan works at NS)
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Re:from netscape.public.mozilla.general (Score:2)
Look for the thread "NS6 on ftp.netscape.com", which started last night (11/9/00).
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Re:AOL Plugin (Score:2)
Re:Ehh, my machine is slower than that (Score:2)
Mozilla? (Score:5)
And not just cutting edge - at the rate it's going, Mozilla is going to have more features than any application on earth, let alone any browser.
I wonder if it'll ever get out of beta!
Re:Java finally works! (Score:2)
Re:There goes the bandwidth. (Score:2)
Premature? (Score:4)
Re:Getting JAVA + SSL to work in Mozilla (Windows) (Score:2)
Re:One problem with your theorem... (Score:2)
The Konqueror browser (Score:2)
It does, at least on my machine, but as I recall you have to specifically enable .gif support in QT when you compile it. I think they do this due to the patent issues [burnallgifs.org] with the compression in GIF's. While I, for one, only use PNG's any more, the ubiquity of GIF's makes lack of support for them a pain. I can't wait until 2003 when the ridiculous patent expires and I can look at the any GIF's still on the web without dealing with the complications brought about by the patents.
Other than that, and A)not-quite-ready javascript support (including especially that it doesn't yet support "javascript:" style URLs) and B)an occasional annoying "won't let go of the current site no matter what address you type in" bug, Konqueror so far seems really nice. It's fast and seems to render nearly everything well. I use it for about 80% of my browsing now - I suspect when a few bugs are fixed by the KDE 2.0.1 release that number will be up to 90-95%...I figure within 4-6 months I'll be able to dump Netscape entirely. If not, maybe the Mozilla branch will be ready for 'prime time' by then.
A vote for the lesser of two evils is still a vote for Evil.
Nutscrape (Score:2)
Re:If this is final... (Score:2)
In particular, this means that all the bug fixes and improvements in Mozilla that didn't make NS6.0 *will* eventually appear in a future Netscape release.
Re:I thought mozilla=netscape (Score:3)
Future (major) Netscape releases will be done the same way --- they will branch from the then-current Mozilla trunk, stabilise, and ship. Every good thing in Mozilla (except possibly some features that Netscape choose to deliberately exclude) will find its way into the next major Netscape release.
Re:If this is final... (Score:5)
Mozilla.org Posts New Roadmap [slashdot.org]
mozilla development roadmap [mozilla.org]
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Re:Can't download (Score:3)
Re:Is there a future for Netscape? Of course! (Score:3)
A couple of guys with pet peeves that didn't make the cut whining doesn't make "heavy criticism". Sure it's easy to have a superior browser if you never release it. Saying Mozilla is better than Netscape is mainly missing the point: Netscape shipping products is (mainly) what pays for continued Mozilla development. They complement one another. Mozilla will chug away indefinitely, (generally) improving slowly day by day. But it doesn't improve that fast: delaying the ship by a month would have made a better browser, no doubt. But then so would delaying by another, and another...
Looking back on the complaints, they look kind of silly: trying to stop the ship only a few days before release because the development team were only taking showstopper bugs. That's what you do when you're about two days away from shipping, guys.
Have a look at the W3C's CSS test pages. [w3.org] Where was the petition not to ship IE until it had proper CSS support? Sure, NN6 isn't perfect either but it does a hell of a lot better than IE; it's unreasonable to expect 100% quality before release.
You would think... (Score:2)
And it would almost certainly be noted here [netscape.com].
Stick with Mozilla anyway - it's not like you need AIM or net2phone or all the other cruft anyway.
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Re:Netscape 6 Final (Score:2)
PS, with NS6.0 and Mozilla you can use user style sheets to easily get rid of all images.
Roadmap sez: Netscape 7.0 will babysit your kids (Score:3)
www.ridiculopathy.com [ridiculopathy.com]
Re:Browsing with an application framework (Score:2)
Re:Give Mozilla a chance (Score:2)
Is there a future for Netscape? (Score:3)
We've all heard and read (and experianced in many cases) the recent batch of problems and critiques of this latest version of Netscape, and I really can't see there being any future in it at all. You've got IE on Windows platforms, and Mozilla on a whole raft of platforms, and the latest versions of these programs are much better than Netscape in almost every way. Why would you want Netscape?
And surely Netscape realised this a long time ago when they reorganised to become a portal rather than a browser seller? Their business plan flopped with the free release of Explorer, and they were snapped up by AOL. Why the attempt now to push Netscape on? Sure, I realise it's now based on Mozilla, but the fact that it misses out on a lot of the latest stuff from the Mozilla project means that it offers nothing at all over Mozilla.
If you're running on Windows, you're probably using IE. If you're running on Linux then you're probably running Mozilla or one of the other open source browsers (Galleon, Konquerer etc.). Who are they aiming this browser at? The branding is hardly going to convince people - they deserted Netscape in droves a long time ago on Windows, and the more canny people on Linux are all too aware of Netscape's flaws.
Is there any point to this release? I can't see one...
Re:Https on Moz (Score:2)
Re:One problem with your theorem... (Score:2)
The difference is proven by visiting the following urls:
ftp://ftp.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/ shows:
Current directory is
where as ftp://ftp30.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/ shows:
Up to higher level directory
ftp://ftp30.netscape.com/pub/netscape6/english/
Current directory is
Up to higher level directory
6.0/ Thu Nov 9 17:04:00 2000 Directory
6.0_netbiz_edition/ Thu Nov 9 17:09:00 2000 Directory
6_PR3/ Sat Sep 30 10:55:00 2000 Directory
Sorry man, good idea. I doubt that we will see this 6.0 directory accessable until netscape officially releases the PR though.
It doesn't appear to be out. (Score:3)
This stuff should really be checked out before it's posted. It seems kind of lazy to make your readers correct this stuff for you.
Netscape 6 Final (Score:4)
Back in the old days of Version 3 browsers there was real difference between the options. IE was headed toward DHTML, and NS was going down the road of JavaScript. People complained bitterly about their sites not working on one browser or another, but they also managed to come up with some really cracking stuff.
These days theres little real innovation. If MS or NS come up with something cool that the other doen't support it gets labelled as 'proprietary'. And we never use 'proprietary' things because they're 'non-standard'. Its all well and good having the exact same standard XML parser, the exact same DHTML support, and the exact same JavaScript command set, but then you end up with two exact same browsers.
Standards are fantastic for the essentials. HTML made the WWW what it is today. But standards can often get in the way of the cool stuff.
Mozilla, Netscape, and IE: Why does it matter? (Score:2)
Which run on Linux (without WINE): Mozilla and Netscape.
Which run on Mac: all three
Which sell out your privacy and let you be tracked the most easily, in violation of European Privacy Standards: IE
Which must we download if we don't want the entire corporate world to go with IE: Netscape.
So, download Netscape 6.0, download Mozilla 16, cheat and copy IE for testing purposes (use a slightly older version) (if you download, they count your stat).
MathML vs. TeX (Score:3)
Indeed, even the specification site [w3.org] admits that "MathML is not primarily intended for direct use by authors. While MathML is human-readable, in all but the simplest cases it is too verbose and error-prone for hand generation." This means: people will not write their publications in MathML. They will write their publications in TeX/LaTeX or some other program and publish the result as MathML.
From an authorship standpoint, MathML has the following serious shortcomings with respect to TeX/LaTeX:
- No support for macros or functions
- No support for internal citations (you can't cite a previous theorem as an abstract object; you have to cite it by its number, and keeping track of numbers by hand sucks)
- Lack of outside bibliographic database integration
- Doesn't look good on paper (no web browser can begin to match the years of thought that went into TeX's typesetting engine--kerning, ligatures, n-cubed optimal hyphenation, etc.)
I'm really shocked that you think MathML is any more human readable than TeX is. Try comparing "3+4i" in TeX to in MathML and you'll see what I mean. Any way you look at it, TeX/LaTeX is not going away anytime soon.Re:Hope there's a "3.1" for Openstep (Score:2)
Re:Is there a future for Netscape? (Score:4)
Yes, the-nastily-bundled-with-windows-IE could be replaced with Netscape, but the problem is that people dont ever upgrade their software.
If AOL users get Netscape installed when they install the other AOL stuff they wont change it, ever, or until the next AOL CD comes in the mail.
Re:Browsing with an application framework (Score:2)
Screw NS & IE (Score:3)
My browser of choice? iCab. [www.icab.de] If you're on a Mac, this browser rocks. Fast, small, highly cusomizable, tightly integrated into the MacOS, and more preferences than you can shake a stick at. No proprietary tags or other BS, either... just strickt HTML 4.0 compliance. This baby kicks the butt of both "mainstream" browsers by delivering something that both browsers should be. The final release should ship in January, and be feature-complete by that time. (The only thing that's lacking right now is lack of CSS & XML support, and the JavaScript is still a little buggy.) Everyone that's used this browser for a day or two has switched and never looked back.
When this puppy hits prime-time, look the hell out.
---
Re:Screw NS & IE (Score:3)
icab kicks major booty on mac OS 8.x and 9, and comes in a carbonized version for OS X already (though the X version is a little slow), and it's the only browser i know if that i can install on 68k macs, powerPC macs, and G3 macs running OS X - and have all 3 running the same version of the browser.
as for its superiority over all other comers, i'm reserving judgement until the final release comes out with CSS and complete javascript support (and then going through and looking back at all my CSS-heavy sites), but as it is, it's already my default browser at home and at work - mostly because i can filter out ads and images from specific servers to speed up getting to the guts of what i'm looking for. it's also my default test platform for any webpage i put together because i know if it doesn't look good in icab, it won't look good in anything else.
a couple of problems persist, though, that require i keep a copy of netscape aggrivator or internet exploiter around - the main one being https support (though arguably, that's apple's fault for only supporting encryption up to a point in their url access toolkit, and even that's fixed now with the latest software update...)
what was my point again? oh yeah.. i can't get the download to work from the netscape site - probably due to the 'prerelease' status as noted elsewhere... anyhoo, i'm rambling.
Ack! It's too early (Score:4)
Don't get all excited (Score:5)
That directory has been there for eons... long before the PR releases came out, and it's always had the permissions set to deny anyone. I love how someone sees a directory structure and knee-jerk posts, just to get a submission in...
This is almost as bad as seeing nightly builds with a milestone number in them and then screaming "Mozilla MXX is out!!"
Give Mozilla a chance (Score:4)
I, like a lot of /. readers, dismissed Mozilla after I tried one of the earlier, bulky build and discovered numerous problems. Just recently I have downloaded the latest milestone build M18 (Linux i586) and it is good.
The Mozilla hackers are not kidding when they said the next releases are going to be optimisation only, because Mozilla is ready to go forth and take over the world!
Amongs many goodies in M18: themes are now fully functional, you can choose NOT to install the news/mail/chat clients, memory footprint is more or less the same as Netscape 4.75.
You own it to yourself to at least download the ~8MB binary and give it a try. (You can install the whole thing under a standard account if you don't want to mess with your /usr/local/ :-)
====
Re:Netscape 6 Final (Score:2)
get in the way of the cool stuff.
You know, this sounded to me strangely similar to that "right to innovate" that some corporations invoked to justify their bullyish behaviour...
Mirrored (Score:5)
ftp://ftp.surfnet.nl/pub
Re:Is there a future for Netscape? Of course! (Score:4)
Hmm... sounds like the similar dillusions of one Mr. Gates.
Fact is, I'm on a WinNT box, and I use Netscape (v4.61) almost exclusively. Why 'almost'? Well, the company I work for makes its intranet for IE only, so I have to keep it around. I have tried 3 different versions of IE and all of them do the same thing to varying degrees; they misdraw most frames, outlines around buttons, and outlines around text boxes. These lines appear in random places all over the desktop and won't go away (even after closing IE) until I F5 or "wipe" my screen with a different program. Not everyone has this problem, but I'm not the only one either.
Even if this little bug that makes my screen practically unreadable at times didn't exist, I would probably still use Netscape. It never crashes on me, I prefer the interface, I prefer the 'bookmarks' method rather than the 'favorites' method, and it's not so intertwined with the functioning of the OS.
I realize my experiences are not the same as everyone. That's my point; just because you think IE is better doesn't mean everyone thinks IE is better. Even if most people think IE is better, that still doesn't make you right.
If you really think you know what's best for everyone else, there's a little company in Redmond you might to apply to work at, because they have a similar philosophy.
By the way, on Linux, I used Netscape exclusively until KDE2 came out, now I also use Konquerer.
Re:Netscape 6 Final (Score:4)
No. You end up with sveral implementations of the same standard. To be standardscompliant is important in this respect, because that is what makes it possible for webpublishers to publish to everybody. If webpublishers have to create different versions for different browsers they will eventually end up supporting just one of them. And we all know which one that will be.
If all browsermanufacturers were required to keep strictly to the standards, what you would get was different browsers that all can show all pages "correctly". The differing factors would be speed, generic look and feel of the browser and differences is user interface. (like keycommands, etc.)
The added bonus would be that since all manufacturers has a fully set specification to follow, they can devote more energy to make it faster ans slimmer and less to find "that must-have feature that will put the others behind for a while".
I guess I'm just dissapointed.... (Score:2)
Yeah, it has it's problems, but I'll take mozilla's problems over's NN4.x's "features" any day of the week and twice on Sunday. I build the web for a living as I suspect that a lot of slashdotters do as well, and so far the posts that have been along the lines of "well, what good does it do me?" belie a very low level of understanding about how important an applictions platform mozilla is, not just how good it is at rendering pages optimized for the horrible hack that NN 4.x is. The web will always be stuck where it is right now if you and I don't demand more, and as someone who builds this stuff, I can tell you for a certianty that mozilla and NN6 are part of that "more".
What I'm getting at is that while it may be fun to poke at the mozilla team from time to time for not producing to IE standards or our lulled standards of what is good, it misses the entire point. Mozilla has been built what the future in mind, so if it seems slower, please remember that when you first grabbed NN 4.x off an FTP you probably thought it was slow as molasses too and wanted your simple world of NN 3 back.
I guess I was just hoping that the slashdot community would get it.
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Widgets for the web
Re:Give Mozilla a chance (Score:2)
Mozilla is indeed awesome...after using M17 for a few days, I completely ditched NS4.7 on my Linux box.
Long live the lizard!
"If ignorance is bliss, may I never be happy.
Re:Give Mozilla a chance (Score:3)
Yeah, I've been using M18 (or nightly builds of it, actually) as my primary browser on Linux for a while now. It still doesn't have https support so I have to use Njetscape 4.7 to access ecommerce sites, but that's about the only thing I still use NS for.
Mozilla is good nowadays. Crashes are rare, and it supports CSS wonderfully. Someone asked "what good is standards compliance" in an earlier thread... that someone probably has never had to do web application development. Trying to make web services that work reliably on non-standard browsers (especially Netscape) is a major pain. It may be possible to actually use CSS positioning and other goodies in the near future, instead of always resorting to tables and other kludges for formatting.
There goes the bandwidth. (Score:2)
I recal pretty poor net performance when version 4.0 first hit the streets, although that was a long time ago.
I won't be doing it, though. I'm tracking debian woody, and havn't had the time to update it for nearly two weeks, due to working away. There's some new things to pull down this weekend, glibc, XFree86 4.0, Perl 5.6 (hope the dpkg buglet is fixed) and many more. By the time I've got all that, it will be Sunday evening. Oh for ADSL.
The links did work (Score:5)
It looks like Netscape has but the release up on their FTP server but didn't want it for public viewing yet. At the time it was wide open, now they've made it permission denied until they finally release it.
My view of the Linux version - better than previous Netscape previews but the latest Mozilla nightly is still way ahead. I got a few crashes on this release which I've not had with the latest Mozilla's but overall the Netscape release seems OK.
One prob with the Linux version is it still spouts all the messages to stdout/stderr if you run it in an xterm - for a supposedly released product to say things like "we don't support eBorderStyle - please fix me" seems a bit unprofessional. Perhaps they'll fix this in the next few days before they open up their FTP servers again. I sent feedback to them about it on their feedback form, all they need to do is to get their shell script that starts mozilla-bin to redirect all output to /dev/null not exactly a high risk fix.
Anyway sorry for the disappointent caused, this FTP server worked for hours after I submitted the story
Dave
Re:Netscape 6 Final (Score:5)
--neutrino
Netscape vs windows (Score:5)
Re:Our little saying... (Score:3)
I don't have Windows, so I couldn't check stuff out until people told me IE problems.
Then again, I now say, "NETSCAPE, IE, AND MOZILLA SUCKS!" I now use Konqueror almost exclusively.
Of course, I doubt anyone cares about what your webmaster has to say if your post is that content-free.
Your post reminds me of adolescent "<band a> sucks, <band b> rulez" banter.
It *did* work (Score:3)
Alternatively you might as well just go here [mozilla.org] and download the latest Mozilla builds which is better in all respects (unless you need AOL IM integrated with your browser) and then just get the Netscape throbber from a N6 preview release and swap it with the Mozilla ones then you do have the best of all worlds.
Once again sorry for letting you all down - it did work for hours after me submitting it but then they must have realised.
Re:Netscape 6 Final (Score:2)
To sum it up, why add stupid little toys to browsers when there are extremely well designed features which haven't been implemented yet by anyone, despite the fact that they've been published standards since 1996 (CSS-1)?
While CSS-2 and XML give you the ability to separate content and presentation, I think it's equally important to point out the power of the DOM. It gives JavaScript complete control over the content of a page in a very flexible manner. Things which traditionally required a round-trip HTTP request to a server, such as adding a row to a table, now can be done without any network communication at all. Clever use of this can greatly reduce the amount of network traffic a web application generates, in addition to an overall speed gain. Instead of refetching an entire page repeatedly while working on it, you only have to request a fragment containing the information you need, or possibly no HTTP requests at all if you're able to anticipate information they might need and send it up front, but don't display it. As anyone who's tried to use a web application knows, waiting for a server's responses (especially long ones) is usually how you spend (waste?) the majority of your time.
With all of this amazing power just waiting for implementation, why would anyone want more gimmicks? Standards often get in the way of the cool stuff my *ss. I assume you're talking about really cool stuff, like the BLINK tag...
Unfortunately, Mozilla is WAY slow. (Score:2)
But, I have on several occasions downloaded the mozilla builds, and have found mozilla to be ungodly slow. I mean, sure, I don't have the fasted computer in the world [AMD K6-3 400Mhz], but yikes! Scrolling is fast, I admit, but gif images stutter horribly while my CPU maxes out. Just selecting drop down menu items is sluggish. Oh well. I'm sure it will improve.
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man sig
OT: IRIX 6.5.10 was released today (Score:2)
http://support.s gi. com/colls/patches/tools/relstream/index.html [sgi.com]
No major super-huge changes, lots of small fixes and improved support for Octane2 VPro gfx and Onyx/Origin 3000 hardware. Gotta love an OS like this that can tame a 512 processor Origin 3000 with 1 TB RAM yet still work great on my Indy!
Re:Is there a future for Netscape? Of course! (Score:3)
What a crock. You are assuming you have this wonderful idea of what is best for everyone. Hmm... sounds like the similar dillusions of one Mr. Gates.
Wow, go for the jugular why don't you? I'm just expressing an opinion, not dictating the choice of browser you use. The level of vitriol in your post is hardly warranted now is it?
Fact is, I'm on a WinNT box, and I use Netscape (v4.61) almost exclusively.
Good for you.
I have tried 3 different versions of IE and all of them do the same thing to varying degrees; they misdraw most frames, outlines around buttons, and outlines around text boxes. These lines appear in random places all over the desktop and won't go away (even after closing IE) until I F5 or "wipe" my screen with a different program. Not everyone has this problem, but I'm not the only one either.
Strange, I've never had any problems like that in any of the versions of IE I've used on any of the Windows platforms. Of course anecdotal evidence doesn't really constitute a valid argument either way.
Even if this little bug that makes my screen practically unreadable at times didn't exist, I would probably still use Netscape. It never crashes on me, I prefer the interface, I prefer the 'bookmarks' method rather than the 'favorites' method, and it's not so intertwined with the functioning of the OS.
As I said earlier, good for you. If you prefer the user interface then that's great, I'm not trying to convert you to IE. But why does the integration of IE with the operating system count as a negative point if you're already using Windows? You've already got the requisite components that IE uses loaded into memory anyway, as other parts of the system use them.
I realize my experiences are not the same as everyone. That's my point; just because you think IE is better doesn't mean everyone thinks IE is better. Even if most people think IE is better, that still doesn't make you right.
*sigh* I didn't say I was right did I? All I was talking about was market share and public perception. People are free to use whichever browser they wish, and the majority of them are using Internet Explorer. That was the point I was making.
If you really think you know what's best for everyone else, there's a little company in Redmond you might to apply to work at, because they have a similar philosophy.
Right. I don't even have Windows on my machine at home any more. Obviously a big Microsoft fan aren't I? You need to calm down and realise that your choice of browser isn't tied to how good a person you are, and that if someone says that more people are using IE than Netscape, it's not a personal attack on you.
Strategy and Needed Standards (Score:5)
Likewise, the ability to dynamically move transparent objects over a page is exactly where Mo/Netscape excel, and IE will again be behind "the bleeding edge."
Is this REALLY an official release? (Score:2)
I downloaded it from the mirror posted in the comments, but from the looks of things, it's still not the official release. It's got Mozillaness all over it, and the credits in the about window were blank. Also, it has a build number from yesterday.
It looks like they were just bundeling it up, and it leaked onto the server by mistake...
For those who were asking about whether it is heavier on the memory side then Mozilla, on NT (ick) it weighed in at 30 megs, and Mozilla is running in 20.
I doubt I'm going to install it on Linux at home, but would be interested in hearing how it runs.
Re:Give Mozilla a chance (Score:2)
Mozilla/Netscape (Score:2)
Re:nutscrape (Score:2)
--
Re:Our little saying... (Score:2)
Pope
Freedom is Slavery! Ignorance is Strength! Monopolies offer Choice!
Re:Getting JAVA + SSL to work in Mozilla (Windows) (Score:2)
Easier than that... (Score:2)
Getting JAVA + SSL to work in Mozilla (Windows) (Score:5)
Download the lastest Mozilla build (check comments on www.mozillazine.org for build information)
unzip the build into c:\mozilla (or whatever you wish)
Get hold of the Sun JAVA2 1.3 JRE (Java Runtime Environment)
Install the Sun JRE, and reboot the system.
Copy the 3 Java Plugin files (npjava12.dll, npjava11.dll, npjava32.dll) from the JRE directory to the Mozilla Plugins directory ( bin/plugins).
This will enable full Java support.
To enable SLL and https support, run Mozilla and serch the menus for a menu itm called "Install PSM" this will take you to a web page on IPlanet and at the bottom is a button saying "Install Netscape PSM for Windows" (there is also a install netscape PSM for Linux too).
click the button, and the PSM will automatically download and install itself, then restart Mozilla.
Thats it, SSL + JAVA 2 working.
Re:NS6 vsMozilla (Score:3)
Re:There goes the bandwidth. (Score:5)
Anything else being released this weekend? We could also see 2.4.0 kernel, Gimp 1.2, glibc-2.2, gcc-3.00 or even the next Win2000 service pack.
Re:Netscape 6 Final (Score:2)
http://www.silverstone.net.nz/work
That's a XHTML webpage with XUL bound to a DIV using XBL. (use a nightly or N6 RTM candidate)
(You can use XBL to create your own composite widgets from primitives supplied by HTML and XUL, or other XBL widgets, as well as implementing node APIs and event handlers, see http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xbl/xbl.html
e.g.
in the example above, produces an alert dialog 'someMethod called!'
(see sampleBindings.xml in the same directory as the above for the XBL widget implementation)