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Games Entertainment

What Will Happen to Sega? 151

Posted by Hemos from the the-death-throes-are-coming dept.
A reader writes "Sega is getting out of hardware altogether. Salon has an interesting bit about the impending doom of Sega and speculation that among the other major players, namely Sony and Nintendo, Microsoft has the most to gain from purchasing the beleaguered Sega."
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What Will Happen to Sega? More

What Will Happen to Sega?

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  • Jaguar could continue to make high end cars and sell them at a low volume. Unlike the auto industry where you can (possibly) survive via volume or high markup on high end products, the console business is all about volume. According to the article Sega reported losses of 200+ Million USD last quarter. I doubt they'll just lay low taking that kind of pounding and then come back.
    Jaguar was and is recognized as a premiere automobile manufacturer and they had patents on a damn fine engine. Sega isn't so lucky. Even with all that, it wasn't until Jaguar was bought by Ford that they started penetrating the mass market (US at least). Like the article states, Sega is (or should be) hoping for the same from MS.

  • CD or not, it was a major problem that showed that they could have used a little bit better quality control.

    I for one know that alot of the returns from circuit city were people trying to return the game fantavision that they got and trade it in for something like madden or tekken. Because of the way that the system is coded, and the fact that that game came with the system as a package, the few that actually got through (because of ignorant cashiers) it looks like a return of the entire package.

    A few of them were from dummies that expected to play the clone CD games they have, and the rest were actually defected. All and all, the return rate is around 1-3% which is normal, espically when the product was rush air shipped, that is more dangerous than the traditional sea tranfer
  • i strongly agree what you're saying man its all about the the software this "console war" is meaning less as long as you have the games,the talent for making the games,and the mony for promoting it then people will by the console just to play the game i have just about all the console's out there not because of which system is better but because of the games and if you ask me I think the dreamcast has better looking games...but lets be fair ps2 are just starting to rev the engines up so wee shall se what they can do i give them one year to see what they got but if they take too long the x-box wil just come and take the glory from both consoles and sont say ol bill know nothing about gaming just look what sony did not to long ago to nintendo and sega just came out of no where and stol the spot light....such is life...
  • Have you actually looked at the specs for the PS2? The main problem that developers are having is that they're used to writing for only one CPU at a time. The PS2 can do parallel processing in it's 3D Vector processor, and if a developer wants to take full advantage of the hardware, they need to take that into consideration. Doing that right is hard.

    Hah, you old geezer, I'm not even out of college, and if last term's (yeah, terms) grades are any indication, I have a good five to six years before I do! Hahah, I'm still a sophomore, learning all this cool CS stuff. Wait, six years? Crap.

    Seriously though, the problem isn't a new IDE, it's the hardware. Consoles generally speaking don't rely on APIs as much as accessing the hardware directly - most game companies actually write their own core code, which is of course highly proprietary, designed to get the most out of the hardware. The radical hardware design makes this more difficult than the PlayStation, and most other consoles.

    In a way, though, this ensures that the PS2 games won't be taking full advantage of the console early on - may have been a good move. Bottom line is, there are extremely competent programmers out there who are still trying to figure out exactly how to best handle the PS2's hardware. It'll take them time to figure out, but you have to expect that.

    It should also be noted that the original PlayStation IDE was based around Linux for whatever reason. Just because this is Slashdot, and most people like it when Linux is mentioned. Others rather hear about BSD or BeOS, but most like Linux.

    I have no clue what the hell I just wrote. Damn sleep deprivation.

  • The idea behind Nintendo using DVD technology for the Gamecube, yet only using 3" discs is somewhat as follows:

    - Considering how much a DVD can hold, a 3" DVD can hold pleny of information for a full game. Especially considering that Nintendo is finally moving from a cart format to discs.

    - Many many people already own DVD players in one form or another. They have no need for another (but they may WANT another). Sony is forcibly bundling this technology into the PS2, which is part of what pushes the price up to 300 USD when it should be at a comparable level to the Dreamcast.

    - If you really want to get a Gamecube/DVD player, you can get one. Matsuhita (Panasonic) is the company working on the drive for the Gamecube, and they will be putting out a DVD player that will play Gamecube games as well.

    It's a win-win situation, really. If you don't want to get another DVD player, you won't be forced to shell out 100-150 USD extra for one that's coming bundled with your console. If you do, get the Panasonic DVD player and go nuts. It's nice to have a choice in the matter, and I for one am very pleased that Nintendo won't be forcing the extra functionality down anyone's throats.
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • You're one of the guys who try to grab the controller on the left- & right-most handles and use the analog stick, right?

    --------------------------------------
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Making the 5200 intentionally incompatible with the computers was the first of a long series of fuckups for Atari. (XEGS was the right idea, just 5 years too late.)
  • It's not a big list at all. I can't find a list, but I heard that Sega Rally 2 does.
  • Did Gonterman write this? Who gives a flying crap about Sonic the goddam hedgehog or the rest of the obnoxious characters? I know David does, but then again he's a demented old loser fanboy too. :) On topic - The Dreamcast is a nice console. The few games I have for it run nice and smooth, looks good and renders without noticable jaggies, and the hardware itself is well designed, the controls are good and there seems to be no particular shortcomings obscuring gameplay. I can't see why the Dreamcast isn't more popular... Sega just haven't pushed advertising for it at all. When did you last see a dreamcast ad on TV?

    I have a bunch of old Playstation games, but frankly the flickery, crappy low-rez vector rendering of those give me a headache when I play them on the aging Playstation. I hope BLEEM [bleem.com] for DC will be out soon! That should add a bunch of vintage titles to the currently not very impressive catalog of Dreamcast compatible software.

    How ironic that the PS2 itself didn't include better rendering and performance for the old games. :)

  • Look who's the idiot ... maybe the anonymous coward how doesn't have the fucking brains to say who they are. You're the idiot ... fuck you for being a gutless coward!
  • PCs have had analog controls for years, and I believe that you could consider those rotating paddle things for Breakout and whatnot on the Atari 2600 could be considered analog.

    J
  • Last night I was playing Ridge Racer V. My roommate had some cars he unlocked on his memory card, and we wanted to use those in a 2 player race. He loaded the car from his memory card, but the game wouldn't let me load a car from his. So we had to manually swap the memory cards, load from his, and then swap back. On a DC game, you just pick which VMU you want to load from. The controllers are usually A, B, C, and D, and each has 2 slots. Thus, you pick Load from A1, or Load from B2, or D1, etc... Very convenient.

    As for the Pocketstation, it not being available in the USA certainly doesn't help USA gamers, now does it.

    The point of my comment was that, DC seems to be a much better platform right now. And I don't think there is any excuse for that, other than Sony is just complacent, and people are stupid enough to believe what they say.
  • The idea sounds good on paper ... We need a stong Mascot, Sega is hurting. Let's just buy Sega and "adopt" Sonic. Brilliant.

    In execution ... well, it'll look like and execution! No consumer in their right mind is going to accept Sonic the Hedgehog as a Microsoft property. Sonic is so closely identified with Sega that even if they painted him green and carved an X on his chest, people would still go, "SEGA!"

    It's a pipe dream. Microsoft needs a first party mascot that the world can identify with, and the rather mannish chick they've got right now is certainly no Lara Croft. But you can't buy a mascot loved by the world, either. The market will reject it.

    You can't really manufacture a mascot either. With Nintendo, it came by accident. Sega and Sony both lucked into a game with a character folks could identify with. (Although, Sony has now lost Crash ...)

    Microsoft may buy Sega, but all they will gain is the elimination of a weak competitor.

  • Thankyou for that worthless prediction.

    If anyone can be compared to Atari at this time, it's Sony. Arrogant, out of ideas and pushing a shoddy product. When the developers start to desert them they'll be royally screwed.

    (this _will_ happen : who wants to work an extra 6 months on a game to get the damn PS2 to do effects in software that an entry-level PC can do in hardware? It's lunacy.)

  • If Microsoft absorbs Sega, does this mean that instead of being a speedy, powerful, spunky hedgehog, Sonic is going to get bloated, weak and start crashing [into things] randomly? :)

  • I don't buy it. Instead I think that Sega will develop software, and (hopefully) stay independent. This will allow the company to be more profitable, because:
    a. They aren't spending money developing hardware. (Although I saw something on ign about them not really abandoning the hardware side)
    b. Software Sells. It costs almost nothing to physically produce, so sales are by definition profit.
    c. Hardware doesn't. Sega loses money on each dreamcast that is sold, with the hopes that licensing costs that developers must pay will recoup their losses. The dreamcast had the misfortune of going against the playstation, which while graphically inferior, had an established game library, and was not yet obsolete. Why buy a new game system, when plenty of great games are still being manufactured for the PS?
    d. With the rise in home gaming system power, arcades are not as popular. Sega was a leader in this market, but now it just isn't paying off. Switching over to SW development, if done well, with emphasis on quality games, may hopefully pull the company out of the red.

    I think that they aren't in such need to recruit Microsoft as a buyer. Granted, Salon did hit it head on when they predicted NVidia to provide X-Box hardware, but I think here they are just speculating.

    Thoughts, responses, flames? Bring it on!

    Captain_Frisk

  • Sega denounced this story. . . (Score:5)

    by kfg ( 145172 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @11:05AM (#650726)
    two days ago.

    While they do intend to broaden their scope in the software market they ALSO hope to broaden their scope in the hardware market.

    Future generations of SEGA hardware are already in development.
  • I think they'll keep supporting it anyway, because Dreamcast runs and version of Windows (CE, I think...) - they will be able to release documentation about porting, etc.
  • Ok, so what's to stop MS from keeping the Sega brand alive. they bought bungie too, and their brand is still going strong no?
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion

  • They are probably selling the DCs at a net loss hoping that game licensing will make up the difference, hence Sega is losing money. Also, the PS2 is not a year late. It is in fact probably being released too early since many of the tools to develop for PS2 are kinda crappy as I've heard. As for the hardware and graphics issues, PS2 is not being used to its full potential yet so an accurate comparison is not really possible. Wait a year and compare DC to PS2.

    People are screaming that the PS2 games suck. Look at the original set of PSX games. Not very good either are they? Yet many of the second generation games rocked, compare Twisted Metal 1 to 2 for example. Big improvements were made. What killed the Saturn and may kill the DC? The later generation games sucked and sega stopped really supporting their console. What is happening now, well Sega is already starting to stop supporting their console... Get the picture?

  • Ah, but it's not entirely bizarre is it? I can use the analogue stick without any problems, and the fact is that an analogue stick is a great idea.

    The 'visual memory' or whatever it's called isbizarre.

  • Aw, man. The first time I get to use the Overrated moderation, and I'm fresh outta points.

    I'm disappointed. A mildly humorous tongue-in-cheek rant, and four people didn't think it was a joke? I know knee-jerk Microsoft bashing is the National Pasttime here, but you guys aren't even trying anymore.

    We're not scare-mongering/This is really happening - Radiohead

  • Reviews are meaningless ... (Score:5)

    by SuperRob ( 31516 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @01:16PM (#650733) Homepage
    I used to work in the game industry. My boss used to always tell me that Reviews meant nothing, especially web reviews. What was important was shelf space, and marketing.

    His point was proven to me when we released our next game to great critical press, great reviews, and strong buyer feedback. Unfortunately, our publisher didn't advertise the game well, and our shelf space was limited. AS a result, we hardly sold any copies of the game.

    My point is, you have to market the hell out of the games, not the console. This is where Sega is faltering. They aren't showing enough of their games where it matters.

    This is EXACTLY what Sega is going to rectify with their new shift to software. Less focus on the console, and more on the games. The console sale will come afterwards ... you have to have SOMETHING to play the game on.

    They aren't abandoning the hardware market, just aggressively pushing the software.

  • Every few months it seems some expert theorizes that sega is dead and that they will have to sell there soul (or work for MS -- same difference) to keep alive. The same thing with apple. How many times was apple supposed to die? Apple is alive (although not doing as well as others) because they can make a living by holding on to a small niche.

    Hopefully the video game market has grown enough to allow someone to stay alive by only holding onto a small band of die hard fans.

    Anyway, apple isn't doing as well as other companies but they aren't dead -- and will probably live on way into the future. Likewise Sega isn't dead either. Yes they are loosing money but the DC really hasn't been out long enough to really start rolling in the dough and the market for consoles in Japan isn't what it used to be.

    Anyway, don't panic and don't count the DC out yet. It is games that sell consoles and I think we will all agree (except maybe for the diehard sony fanboys) that RIGHT NOW Sega has got the games. If you have the great software sometimes you don't need the most powerful hardware.

    Also notice how the article never once mentioned coin-ops. How can you even talk about Sega without mentioning that they dominate the arcades? I think the fall of the arcade has as much lead to Sega's recent trouble as anything else. Also is everyone else looking forward to Shen Mu as much as I am :)
  • I would have to say that comming out with bad games at first is not a usual thing. Look At nintendo's games that have come with its consoles. Maybe that's not enough to count but I think that most of the games that come out with the console are generally pretty good.

  • If anyone needs an example of what happens to console makers when the lose market share. Look at Atari. I predict that Sega will for all intense purposes disapeer until the attempt a comeback in several years (a la Jaguar)

    BTW I am actually own a Jaguar.
  • He loaded the car from his memory card, but the game wouldn't let me load a car from his. So we had to manually swap the memory cards, load from his, and then swap back
    i believe this might be due to the type of VS race you chose, kinda like the VS mode in GT2 where i'm racing cars in my garage against cars in your garage.
    this is more of a implementation in the game, than an overall requirement, but i agree, it currently can suck.
  • This IS indeed supposed to be humorous. The whole Robotnic-Bill Gates parallel struck me just as I was wrapping up and I tossed it in to be silly. I honestly didn't expect, and don't believe I deserve, a score 4 on this.

    The bit about the penguins was a little far-fetched to be honest MS-bashing. It's just silly.

  • If MS buys Sega, will they still support the Dreamcast, or quietly let it die and promote the Xbox?

  • Enough of these rumors (Score:5)

    by ActMatrix ( 246577 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @10:41AM (#650740) Homepage
    Sega has not officially abandoned the hardware market. It is just shifting its focus to software development. That doesn't mean we'll never see another Sega console. And that doesn't mean Sega is going to develop for Nintendo or any other company's console. IGN has an accurate article on what's going on here [ign.com].

    That having been said, enough of these damn Sega rumor and Playstation 2 hype articles on /.
    ---

  • Linux on SH CPUs is a reality - with the dreamcast hacking scene starting to get revved up (with the release of a few emus - ie: boob, gleem, etc), it's only a matter of time before someone ports linux to the DC. The biggest limitation is the lack of standard ports on the DC = i.e., no USB, IEEE-1394, etc. But, if Seag would open up the hardware specs, an adapter from the DC's proprietary bus to USB seems feasible, and that means ethernet, among other things. Dreamcast = cheap linux console. Cheap linux console = linux gaming. Linux gaming = ...

    Other things I'd like to see on the DC:
    o MAME
    o WinCE (desktop)
    o Ethernet

  • Console Volatile! (Score:5)

    by curtisk ( 191737 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @11:10AM (#650742) Homepage Journal
    Sega has not had too many hiccups in the hardware area if you look at them historically....Sure Sega Saturn bombed pretty hard, but all manufacturers have had a turd or two:
    • Nintendo: Virtual Boy & N64
    • Sega: Saturn & 32x
    • Atari: Jaguar
    Sony has been successful thus far, since only have had (until recently) one console offering. Who's not to say the PS3 will bomb? The real factor is always the software support and trends(ie. mascots, social trends, etc.)...what has saved Nintendo's sorry ass N64? One word Pokemon!(and to a smaller extent the Zelda hype)....geez even the new version of the console might as well be called the Poke64!
    Jaguar...no real software library..and if I remember right, the price was a little steep at the time.
    Sega Saturn was a bear to develop for and saw limited sucess overseas, but not in U.S. 32x was hyped way too much and didn't deliver.
    Sony had an exceptional freshman outing....and doesn't seem to be about to fall into a "sophmore slump"....but time will tell. Sony is still the new kid on the block, until Xbox comes along. All of the above mentioned companies have had excellent first systems(and even some seconds). You could have the most poly-per-second, trilinear flip-mip-whip mapping,pre rastering engine on the planet, but if you dont have the right mascot or licenses, and have developer friendly (or at least workable)tools....you're gonna have a bomb. And never forget luck!

  • Okay this Sega stuff is getting old (Score:5)

    by Mantrid ( 250133 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @11:10AM (#650743) Journal
    SOA is doing fine, it's Sega of Japan that's struggling. Even PS2 isn't doing that well there, especially software-wise. The only thing that sells PS2's is the DVD capability. SOA sales are quite brisk and some monster titles are hitting this month, Sega net seems to be a hit, and the future actually looks pretty good in North America and Europe. The PS2 shortage may be helping things out as well, especially given dismal launch titles (which seems to be a console tradition...can't wait to see PS2 games coming out next fall!!). It seems that these steady Sega is dying articles are some kind of circular internet thing- all the news sites are reading each other's Sega articles, without fully investigating, and the faulty information is propagating, mutating as it goes. Just go out one weekend and rent a PS2 and a bunch of games, then go out another weekend and rent a Dreamcast and a bunch of games. Buy whichever system has the games you want to play out now, and don't worry about all this doom and gloom. Dreamcast's current installed base is large enough to let the system coast for a year and a half or so if no other unit sold. PS2 is obviously a juggernaut and once developers figure things out, it's going to rock your world. X-Box is still vaporware, but sounds promising. And Gamecube is really vaporware, but Nintendo always manages to sell things. Then there's Indrema, the gameless wonder (moo ha ha)

  • Re:Enough of these rumors (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    There were rumors going around that sega was abandoning the hardware market after the saturn failed. The whole reason the Dreamcaste is white and has that cinabun logo is that the SEGA brand name was hated amounst US gamers.
  • The main problem that developers are having is that they're used to writing for only one CPU at a time.
    My point is that today's developers may be used to doing this... but the guys I worked with 10 years ago wouldn't have flinched (in fact several of them are working on PS2 projects). Yet today we have nothing but moaning little bitches.
    Seriously though, the problem isn't a new IDE, it's the hardware.
    Yes, and no. I honestly laugh at the guy who refuses to use a different IDE, but the point is that the PS2 represents something different. Different can be better, or it can be worse (e.g. Saturn's rushed delivery date, which resulted in a *horrible* hardware design).

    But the people who I hear blathering on and on seem to center around the fact that they need to learn the hardware (gosh, just like every console developer had to 10 years ago).

    Big deal.

  • The last strong Sonic game was Sonic and Knuckles. That was the last one carrying the original Sonic the Hedgehog storyline. But since then, we haven't had any good Sonic games. Sure, the newer games _look_ better, but is FF8 better than FF3? No.
    If you ask me, Sega's killing of Sonic in this manner might have caused this. And Microsoft purchasing Sega won't fix the problem. That would cure the disease by killing the patient! What little is left of Sega's soul would be swallowed by the demon of Redmond.
    Unless Sega can revive Sonic by bringing back the old storyline, and stops worrying about hardware, they're toast, no matter what.
    Farewell, Sega. We'll never forget you.


  • You don't get the point.

    A Dreamcast sold to you to fuck around with and not play games on is money lost to Sega.

    Get it?
    --
  • Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Cable modem tests for the PS2 are going on now in japan. /shrug. can't remember the name of the city off the top of my head, osaka i think? the 2nd largest city besides tokyo.
  • The question of which is better - psx or n64 - largely depends on what kind of games you like. btw, I'm one of the unlucky souls who bought an N64 the week it came out because Square said they would do FF7 on it, and then had to get a Playstation when Square changed loyalties.)

    The memory of this, and the subsequent fact that the N64 had very few good 3rd party supporters since (Rare being the obvious exception), leaves me thinking 2 things:

    1. "Inferior" consoles can win against "superior" consoles. The N64 had great hardware for sure, and the psx's sucked royally. Personally, I'm not quite sure which out of the PS2, Gamecube, and Xbox has the "best" hardware; however, I fear that Joe Blow consumer will think the Xbox does. The hope that Nintendo and Sony will scrape the floor with Microsoft remains.

    2. As a previous poster noted, where Square goes has a massive effect on many people's buying decisions. In Japan, it permanently crippled the N64. I fear, at the back of my mind, that Square's appraisal of the next-gen market will result in a move to the Xbox. It's possible. It would seem quite unlikely, given how much Square has already invested into Sony. (I don't think PlayOnline could make a neat and tidy transitition to Microsoft; after all, aren't they using GSCubes for the content servers?) But then again, Square's commitment to Nintendo seemed obvious too, and the switch to Sony was something nobody expected. The question then becomes: would I give in to evil, just to play Final Fantasy? Hard to say, but damnit, I hope I don't have to make that decision.

    Jeez, I think I take this stuff a bit too seriously at times.

  • I am thinking just the opposite. Last week I was
    looking for a new video card for my 'puter and
    the cheapest one that was reasonable is about $150, which is the cost of the dreamcast. A 'good' card is about $250. So, I could upgrade my video card to one that will be outdated in 6 months, or I can keep the one I have and buy a dreamcast, or I could buy a PS2 for the same price
    as a good card and get DVD on my TV for free.

    Subsidized game consoles make it hard for the PC
    to take over.
  • Heh, I had an SMS as a kid. It was fun. Though honestly, I'd have to say that if you're going to say that the SMS wasn't a bomb, then it's tough to say that the N64 was. Personally, I have more N64 games than PSX games. And I consider myself a moderately mature gamer. I'd have to say that, for my tastes, the PSX was a disappointment. I don't think I'll be getting a PS2 any time soon. It's all in your tastes.
    Anyway, from what I understood (I could be wrong), N64 was a bomb in Japan, but a hit in the US. Just because millions of screaming kids bought it doesn't mean it's a success? I'd rate that as a success. Not one I'd necessarily like to play, but a success nonetheless...
  • The point of my comment was that, DC seems to be a much better platform right now. And I don't think there is any excuse for that, other than Sony is just complacent, and people are stupid enough to believe what they say.
    easy excuse: its been out longer. developers have had kits for the DC longer. US release vs. US release, DC has over a YEAR of lead time. now if people would compare launch titles to launch titles, i'd love to hear about it, or wait 4 or 6 months before passing any real judgement (then again, w/ sony's fubar w/ the chip production, not many people will have'em in even 4 months.)
  • A vampire (M$) should never suck the blood of a dead thing (Sega) because the thing will drag you down to the depths with it.

    I thinks thats commonly called the 'Curse of Amiga' ,where one faceless corporation(Commodore,Escom etc)sucks the blood of a dead thing (Amiga) then mysteriously dies...


  • the first 35th Post?? LMAO...knucklehead!

  • I have no idea what you're talking about, as SSX for the PS2 kicks fucking ass.

    It's like, amazing. I was in awe. Addictive gameplay, beautiful graphics. I was in love.

    And I own a Dreamcast, not a PS2.
    --
  • Unfortunately, I think their retail ties prevent them from coming back. That's one of the reasons why the Jaguar died. I own one, and play it on occasion still. They screwed many retail outlets back in the 2600/5200 days and they never recovered. Sam
  • Gaming consoles have always been pretty cool. But now the PC is sortof taking over IMHO. When you can do everything a game console can, plus have internet connectivity for taking on your friends and write reports for school, you pretty much have everything you need. Why speed a couple hundred to have a game console (that is not upgradable and will eventually be put out by the next and better version) sitting around. Long live the PC!
  • Microsoft has a lot to gain by buying out Sega. The cost of the hardware and the engineering expertise is only part of it, of which Sega can provide a limited amount, especially to a software giant like Microsoft. The real value for any company interested in purchasing Sega is its ability to take ownership of all the games that it produces as a software house and its licensing. The thing that will make X-Box live or die is its developer support. Instead of trying to get games written for its platform by approaching individual software houses, they can simply acquire Sega and have the developing and creative talents of many games. The name-brand of Sega's characters, games, and the console itself will only carry it so far. Gamers would flock to X-box if every one of Sega's in-house developed flagship titles were developed for the X-Box.
  • Wrong answer.
    Right answer? Because they can. They dump millions daily into programs/products that will never see the light of day. If the X-box isn't one of them, they will buy Sega just to clear up the marketplace, gain access to titles and franchises, and put pressure on Sony.
    They're not in the console business to sell consoles, they're in the console business to grab marketshare of what may well be the "gateway drug" to LANs, ISP/high bandwidth subscriptions, regular PCs and other jucier and more profitable products and services. Get your foot in the door first and NEVER take it out. Remember, Sony is getting into the PC business.

  • Re:Enough of these rumors (Score:3)

    by Eccles ( 932 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @11:16AM (#650761) Journal
    When people play PS2 games then play dreamcast games, dreamcast wins.

    That's as may be, but that doesn't change the financials. According to the Salon article, they lost $204 million last quarter, their fourth straight losing quarter. If the Dreamcast was available for much of that quarter, then they're in serious trouble.
  • I don't know - I think the console market is more about concept than implementation, i.e. what you're trying to achieve rather than exactly how it's done. Owning the Dreamcast would give them a method for how it's done; taking concepts and ideas from the Dreamcast can be done for free.

    Also, the playing field and state-of-the-art will have changed so much by the time Sony is ready to release PSX3 or whatever their next machine will be called that the Dreamcast technology really won't help them all that much.

  • The DC launched with a modem. Why couldn't the PS2? Here's an instance where the lead time doesn't matter. In fact, it would have given the PS2 an edge, since they could implement a modem better than the DC did. But they didn't.
  • .. when the one thing you need is a warm PC?

  • Re:Enough of these rumors (Score:3)

    by _xeno_ ( 155264 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @02:28PM (#650765) Homepage Journal
    Lack of modem/ethernet? All the new online games coming out for DC this holiday season are impressive. PS2 owners won't get that anytime soon.

    Yeah, but will Dreamcast users? From what I've heard, Sega's online service had some troubles on launch (enough to get a Penny Arcade cartoon [penny-arcade.com]). Besides, most on-line games over dialup are laggy and just seem to play poorly (mostly depending on the latency between server/players). Plus, I have to wonder how servers work - do you start up a server on your DC, or do you play off the official Sega.net servers?

    It's possible that Sony is actually wise in waiting. As most people have pointed out, this is the initial release of a system. Wait for it to become stable. It's not the launch titles I'm interested in, it's MGS2 and FFX. Some time next year, I might actually find myself getting a PS2. But right now, it's not worth it. It takes time for good games - you have to be patient with new consoles. Especially with the PS2, since it is a very radical change in the way most games run. Whether this helps or hurts it in the long run remains to be seen.

    (And, with Sony, you have to wait three or four "versions" before they create one that doesn't break just after the warranty period...)

  • How can anyone be so sure about the future of a console based on it's initial games and first impressions?

    I remember the first Playstation games not being that impressive either. How many people are going to end up owning all the systems anyway?

    The PS2 has enough inertia to install a strong user base and developers are not going to ignore that.

    They give the President 100 days to see how he is doing, do consoles only get 8?

  • For example, Final Fantasy. wow, thay are on 9 in a few days and NONE of them have anything to do with one another, except maybe chocobos.

    Actually, they're all very similar in design and layout. All of Square's Final Fantasy games really do look and "feel" like a Final Fantasy game, while most of their other RPGs have a noticable trend away. The story line is almost always different, but in a way, that's a good thing. It would get strained to have the same characters over and over again - it would even begin to get boring if it was the same world over and over again. By having different backdrops, Square allows themselves to play with the gameplay in ways they couldn't otherwise. (V's job system, XI's Espers, XII's Materia, XIII's draw system...)

    The other thing that ties all the games together are the basic weapon/item/spells/summons, which almost always carry over. (Masamune is in every game, Tonic, Potion, Tincture, etc., Fire, Fira, Firaga (or Fire, Fire 2, Fire 3 in the US up until VIII), Ifrit, Shiva, Cait Sith (a character in VII, "Stray" in US's VI (or III)), etc.). The basic game play is really quite similar among all the Final Fantasy games, and that's what gets people coming back to it.

    (It also should be noted that Crash Bandicoot officially ended with Crash Bandicoot 3: WARPED, although they've decided that it's too lucrative and are instead coming out with Crash Bandicoot character games, like a Mario Cart and Mario Party clone.)

    However, I do agree completely that Sony is the king of marketting, and that they've successfully used that to quell other platforms. Bascially, they try and win the developers over to the PS, and with PS2s weird hardware, games are that much harder to port from the PlayStation2. Unfortunately for Sony, that works two ways: It's also harder to port to the PS2.

  • Especially with the PS2, since it is a very radical change in the way most games run. Whether this helps or hurts it in the long run remains to be seen.


    What did you mean here? I'm not sure how PS2 games are radically different in the way they run....
  • What did you mean here? I'm not sure how PS2 games are radically different in the way they run....

    The hardware is extremely different - screwing the way most people write games, and with the way that the game is actually ran at runtime. (The twin vector-processor whatevers are the biggest problem, since it either takes a assembly genius to get it to work write, or some really good compilers that don't exist yet.)

  • I think Salon's got a lot of guts talking about the demise of Sega. Don't they [Salon] have enough problems of their own?
  • Your forgetting the real reason they went with the mini-dvds.
    Eventually dvd burners will be cheap.
    Eventually someone will make a Game Cube mod chip.
    But good luck on finding a writable mini-dvd.

  • Okay, answer me this - what does Sega gain by opening up the DC to Linux hackers?

    Nothing.

    They just stand to loose revenue.

    See, as has been pointed out gazillions of times, a console is not a general purpose computer. A console is a content delivery device, sold at a loss, for the purposes of making you buy games.

    Giving you the ability to do something else other than play Thier Games on it does nothing but cost Sega the loss that the sale of the console generates, with no promise of revenue from you buying games.

    Keep dreaming, though.

    --
  • Um, Atari made a console called Jaguar back in the early 90s, it was short lived but was the top for its time. There was a CD-ROM for it later but wasn't marketed very well. Most retailers, like Target, didn't pick it up because of previous experience with Atari in the 2600/5200 days so not may places sold 'em. Alien vs. Predator appeared on the Atari (I own it) and was one of the most technically advanced games back then.

    Sam

  • It's released in Japan already. Works with all your favorite LAN technologies. It'll be released in the US Jan 02, 2001 for $60.

    I'll be first in line.
  • Why do these articles keep getting posted to the front page?

    You mean Slashdot has a back page to post articles to? Nobody ever tells me anything! What else have I been missing out on? Is there a sports section? Funny pages?
  • Is it me, or does the introduction of a really hi-tech or 'concept' control pad which is shipped with the machine by default always indicate the impending doom of a console company? The only control pad I remember being as bizarre and uncomfortable as the Dreamcast's was the Atari Jaguar pad in the early 90's (remember them?) And look what happened - it was meant to be the resurrection of Atari but was really its death knell. We'll all know the fate of Microsoft when we see final pictures of the X-Box control pad.
  • They've already screwed up. The Gamecube uses a 3" DVD. Sure it's a console system, but look how many people are buying the PS2 as a DVD player and game system. Nintendo should have used standard DVDs.

    Sam

  • Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this is anti-MS zealotry at its very best. You haven't put forth a single argument against a possible MS-Sega merger other than that MS sucks and Sega is cool. AND you managed to throw in a "Sega should be open-sourced" line in there. Impressive.
  • It'd be very easy and wise for them to insert a "supplied for non-commercial purposes only" clause into their licensing agreement for the documentation and SDK/DDK. Didn't Sony do this for the Yaroze?

  • Re:Enough of these rumors (Score:4)

    by EvlG ( 24576 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @12:05PM (#650781)
    My roommates have a PS2 and a Dreamcast, and I've played both a lot.

    My impression is that the PS2 is not a bad system, but there is this feeling of something being missing when I play it, compared to the Dreamcast.
    I definitely get the feeling that the machine is very "complacent." I just think to myself, this machine is very behind in some respects. For example, only 2 controller ports are included on the unit? That's a braindead move, ensuring that fewer games will be made to use more than 2 controllers. Lack of modem/ethernet? All the new online games coming out for DC this holiday season are impressive. PS2 owners won't get that anytime soon. DC's use of a VMU for memory and the presentation of additional game content is wonderful, and far superior to the antiquated memory cards sold for PS2, ESPECIALLY since many games don't let players load from an arbitrary memory card, in the same way anyone can load anything from any VMU in most DC games. Additionally, the lack of FSAA really hurts on a TV screen. DC games look crisp and clear, while the PS2 games I've played are full of jagged edges.

    What does all this add up to? A disappointing experience for players that believed all the hype (and continue to believe the hype). The PS2 isn't bad, but in many ways, I find the DC a superior console.
  • If you want a nasty pad, take a look at the GameCube's. That thing is not designed for human hands.

    A friend just got a DC (for Soul Calibur and Crazy Taxi), and I had a chance to diddle with the controls a bit. The DC's controller's main problem is that it's too damn short. My pinkies keep sliding off the end, and the triggers are placed just about an inch too far back to be comfortable. That, and they've got just a little too much play.

  • Dc already has an ethernet adaptor, and there is a nes and snes emulator for DC out too, that was ported from a linux one.
  • This is exactly what happened when the first Playstation launched. It had crappy titles and they came no where close to using the power of the system. That was until the N64 came out, then Sony went advertizing crazy, and here we are today.

    Saturn had good hardware and some really great games, but it had no developer support.
    No support = dead system
    Sony on the other hand has all kinds of support, so just because the launch titles suck (with the possable exception of Tekken Tag) does not spell disaster for the system.

    ~LE

  • You seem to have forgotten the SegaCD as well as the GameGear and Nomad.

    IMHO Sega's always released their hardware earlier than anyone else only to have no one buy it after a year because better game consoles with more software titles have been released by then.

  • Theyl'l have to replace his special shoe boxes with a beos box and rather than becoming golden sonic and going fast hel'l become tux the penguin and go fast.

  • Slashdot Xanatopia? (Score:3)

    by ronfar ( 52216 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @03:35PM (#650788) Journal
    There are two things about /. that have disturbed me lately. The first is the cynical way they have presented the presidential election, and the second is all the pro-Sony hype and FUD they've been pushing at us.

    These articles are FUD, no different than the pro-Microsoft tactic used by people who feared seeing their platform of choice having to compete with alternatives. The truth is some people (and I'm guessing from the coverage that Slashdot's editors are among them) would love to see a console monopoly, just like my boss at work would love to see a Microsoft monopoly. Why? No worries about compatibility. For developers, no worries about developing for multiple platforms. Of course, there is a flaw in this thinking. Microsoft isn't a monopoly, but their domination of the desktop was probably not a good thing. Besides that, I really wish that non-x86 hardware had more of a chance in the marketplace. Variety is more fun than bland, ugly sameness.

    What I really wish is that the Sony would be content with its hoard of casual users, caught up in fad gaming, and leave the consoles that cater to real gamers alone. (I mean, $1500 for a game console that's overpriced at $300 and won't really be that useful until there is a decent line up of games for it, if ever? We're in Beanie Baby/Cabbage Patch land here, a tulip bubble like this can't be good for gaming in general.) Unfortunately, that's not the way huge companies like Sony operate. They'll try to push Sega out of business even if it was only profitable as an enthusiasts system while they devoured the mainstream market. Stories like this are part of a concerted effort by Sony to do just that. Why do I think of these anti-Sega articles as propaganda, because no one treats the serious problems Sony had in the same light. In Japan, the PSX2 is a popular DVD-player, gaming is in a slump... that's bad for a company that is selling its consoles as a loss leader.)

    The thing that amazes me is that as game companies go, they are extraordinarily lame. The content they produce in house is really sort of "bleah." I can't think of one Sony original title I consider a must own, and the only one that has name recognition with me is Crash Bandicoot. The big Sony titles were all produced by third parties, like Capcom, Konami, and Square (Square is not Sony, remember when Nintendo fans found out a similar truth about their own favorite console.)

    Besides which, as has so often been said, Sony is responsible for a lot of the really bad IP laws we all have to deal with. They practically are the DVD CCA, all by themselves. They are one of the biggest multinationals in the world, and they are hostile toward their consumers.

    They've also done their best to frustrate people who dare to play games outside of their region (yes, I know, no different than other game companies, but certainly negating any kind of fan loyalty people should feel toward them.)

    Sega is far from perfect, as game companies go. However, when Slashdot constantly reprints the same story, after it was already refuted, it should cause them to lose credibility.

  • Gods, not THIS rumor again. I heard this one when Sega CD came out, and failed. I heard it again when the 32X came out, and failed. I heard it yet AGAIN when the Saturn came out, and failed as well. Save it for a press release kiddies, 'cause I'm tired of hearing this one.
  • Are you sure the N64 is a failure? It seems to stil be popular, being bought from people who grew up on the 8-bit NES. I'd almost say the Super Nintendo was a failure compared do the Sega Genesis.

    Oh, and if you want to count Atari's failures, do NOT forget the Atari 7800 with its library of "classics" and the fact it came out way too late. Nobody wanted to play Karateka again compared to Shadowrun for the Genesis.

    Don't forget the Sega Master System. Nintendo buried it alive back around 1985. The games on it were pretty shallow(from my experiences), and the 3d goggles weren't all that.
  • Apart from Pokemon?

    Wat about:

    Mario 64 (the game I bought the console for)
    Goldeneye (a classic by any definition)
    Perfect Dark
    Zelda (at least a lot more credit than you give it)
    Transparent colored consoles (even if you hated it you have to admit no-one had done it before).
    Analog controls (I think Nintendo was first with this one).

    There have of course been a number of other great games. I'm not a Nintendo fanatic - I already have a PS2 and love it. But I think calling the N64 anything but a quiet success is really a mistake.

    I agree with all of your other choices, even though I own both a Virtual Boy (picked it up dirt cheap from EB clearance) and the Jaguar/CD Player (which had an OK library, but was difficult to program for and there wasn't enough incentive to learn).

    On top of that, I still like the Nintendo controller better than the Dual Shock 2 - My hands are a bit large for the Sony controller.
  • Intresting fact about the Atari XE game system or even the Atari 5200 was that it had the same guts as the Atari 8 bit systems.

  • SEGA's failings = bad marketing + sony (Score:5)

    by Brat Food ( 9397 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @12:29PM (#650805) Homepage
    2 things have really kept SEGA down over the years. Really bad marketing, and of course, sony.

    Sony has excellent marketing/hype. No doubts about that. Ive never seen so many slobbering idots wait in line to spend 300+ bucks on something with no AAA games and only a few worth even playing for more then a little while. But, you all know this.

    Segas launch got neutered by sony prematurly announcing/releasing the PS2. Thats all there is too it. The PS2 could have stood a 1/2 year more engeneering, better middleware and dev kits, and publishers another year to make real games and not shovelware.

    Sega also failed in the long run with what i think also smashed the saturn: not using their huge licenses.

    Sonic, Phantasy Star, Panzer Dragoon... the list goes on and on. Sony and its third parties recognize on thing - the name sells. For example, Final Fantasy. wow, thay are on 9 in a few days and NONE of them have anything to do with one another, except maybe chocobos. Now ask yourself this, if each title was released under a different name, would they sell as well? No. In truth you could call final fantasy 9 "Po goes the the market to get a fish" and it would be the same game, but, square, as does sony, knows the value in a name.

    This also illustrates the phenomena that the PSX brought to the gaming world: mass market gaming. No longer do you have 90% of the game buying public knowledgeable of the industry, you now have 30% at best. Thats a lot of people who dont even know that sega exists most likely. Tis a shame, as so few PSX titles have had any quality over the last few years.

    For all the sony fanboys, for as much as you want sega to die, no competetion in the gaming market would mean the worst drought of AAA original titles for a long time. The average joe comsumer wont notice, as they couldnt find a good game if it was suck to their ass, but for the hardcore, it will mean final fantasy 39, crash bandicoot 234, spyro 34, and so forth.

    Sega chooses to come up with original content, rather then play off old names. Jet Grind Radio. Samba de Amigo. ChuChu rocket(yes chuchu). Sega has balls, and some of the best game designers this side of nintendo. Anyone truly in to games shold be praying for segas development houses to stay in good health.

    If you havent, go play samba, and tell me its not the most fun youve had with a game in a VERY long time. You may find yourself springing 120 bucks for maracas and the game before you kow what hit you. its that good.
  • I think Atari, as a brand name, could very well come back with a PSX2-competing product. They're a very well known brand name to Gen-Xers, who seem to have the most discretionary income to spend on these types of products.

  • Microsoft's "Sky.Net" Initiative (Score:3)

    by daeley ( 126313 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @10:47AM (#650812) Homepage
    In related news, Microsoft announced today it was purchasing Sega, Atari, and the rights to Intellivision cartridges. This move was seen as an effort to bolster Microsoft's "Sky.net" project -- sending a single Terminator back in time to execute the makers of any video games other than Bungie's.

  • Re:Enough of these rumors (Score:4)

    by FortKnox ( 169099 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @10:47AM (#650815) Homepage Journal
    I completely agree. Look at how badly the PS2 is being reviewed? They are only getting sold because of hype. When people play PS2 games then play dreamcast games, dreamcast wins. If you don't believe me, try it. Dreamcast has a better machine with better games... Sure PS2 has better hardware, but they aren't using the technology to the max, yet. PS2's only likable feature is its backward compatability.
    Sega is reporting losses... just like everyone in the gaming industry. Why is everyone assuming that they will fail? Look at the reviews!


    -- Don't you hate it when people comment on other people's .sigs??
  • Where are all of these bad PS2 reviews I keep hearing about? I only seem to find them here and I think in a Yahoo article. EGM gave positive reviews to many of the games (Madden 2001, Smuggler's Run, SSX, Timesplitters, NHL 2001 all come easily to mind as receiving excellent ones). I was among the many who were not able to obtain one, however I did rent a console for the weekend. My friends and I were all pleased overall with the game play (FYI I rented Smuggler's Run, SSX, and Unreal Tournament, as well as watched U-571 on DVD). If that's the level of games BEFORE developer's figure out to maximize the hardware potential, I, for one, am looking forward to the next generation of games.

  • Sonic the Microsoftie!? Say it ain't so. (Score:3)

    by _outcat_ ( 111636 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @11:44AM (#650822) Homepage Journal
    Okay, perhaps this is a very obscure reference, but it IS related and not entirely offtopic.

    First of all, what real evidence do we have that MS will indeed buy Sega? Gahhh...I should certainly hope not.

    If anything, I think Sega should be open-sourced. Here's my take on it; it's rather limited to the comic book scene.

    Archie Comics has a Sonic the Hedgehog lineup, almost to their 100th issue, with surprisingly in-depth storylines and a good deal of artistic talent. Sure, it's just Sonic and a bunch of furries fighting evil, but they look GOOD doing it! Archie's got some good writers working on the Sonic scene, but see, Sega has its OWN characters and agendas. Archie has had a hard time dealing with this as they attempt to make their storylines more involved--Sega demands that Sonic retain a cool and spunky attitude, and he's too "cool" to be involved in any emotional issues that are at the core of developing a fictional character. So it's very hard for Archie to develop personalities and "nail down" the characters...because of this issue.

    If Micros~1 bought Sega, this would likely get even worse. We all know how Microsoft is about licensing. They'd probably demand death scenes of all characters other than those exclusively designed by Sega and put in the games, and a very decent comic title would die out due to lack of readership. Then Sonic and the remaining four or five characters would begin resembling paperclips. They'd lose what little personality they had entirely. And they'd all zoom around quickly correcting spelling mistakes you don't want corrected. At least once a day you'd get a blue (blur) screen. Robotnik would probably be the only remaining character. They'd change his name to Ro-bill-nik, or Redmondnik, or something like that. And Sega and Microsoft would jointly create a new character, Panic the Penguin, with his leagues of evil penguins, whom Ro-Gates-Nik would have to go around converting to his purposes....

    No? Okay. Well, I'm done now.

  • Not again... (Score:5)

    by tuffy ( 10202 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @11:47AM (#650823) Homepage Journal
    It's interesting that Sega expects a return to profitability [dailyradar.com] in 2001. What's also interesting is that Sony posted a loss [cnet.com] nearly 3 times that of Sega, hasn't released enough product for xmas and rumors [fgnonline.com] are floating around that there won't be more PS2s til spring. I wonder when the Sony doom & gloom rumors will start...

    Really, all this Salon article says is that making consoles is a money-losing business in the short term (which we all knew already) and a whole bunch of speculation about Sega and Microsoft and whatnot. I'm waiting for facts, not what ifs.

  • They will be sold to a guy and his son. These two will try to reshape Sega into a home computer company. They will send the company spiraling downward, and eventually sell out to a hard disk manufacturer. The HD manufacturer will sit on the Sega name for about a year, and then sell the "home system" name to Hasbro.

  • Aside from rights to a few popular game characters, M$ doesn't really have much to gain from buying Sega. Making a new console system doesn't exactly involve top secret technology, and M$ has already been working on their own for a while. Sega has some industry experience, but obviously it doesn't have the answer to succeding in the console system market. All they will inherit from sega besides a few characters is a company already in the red with an obsolete console system on the market. It's not really a lucrative gain. Perhaps they feel that a popular character can carry a platform. That's not really the case. Mario games or Sonic games that seem to debut with Sega/Nintendo systems are actually fun games. The fact that they feature a specific character helps, but in the end, game quality tends to carry a system further than a well-known face. (and please don't bring pokemon into this. They are crappy games that carry the gameboy now, but that is a different category. That is a kiddy craze. Sonic & co. are not.)

    Perhaps there is something I just don't get about the possible deal. Feel free to inform me of anything I have overlooked/interpreted incorrectly.
  • 600 million dollars is not such a big loss when you consider sony's size. 200 million is a huge loss when you consider segs's size. When you also take into account that sega has been losing money the past 4 years, the fact that sony's loss was three times that of sega doesn't mean anything. That certainly did not deserve a five.
  • What I find very interesting is the fact that the games we have seen for Dreamcast are truly innovative and flat-out superb.

    I mean, look at the games already out on Dreamcast:

    1. Soul Calibur--the BEST fighting game ever done, no contest.

    2. NFL 2K (and now NFL 2K1)--a MAJOR leap forward in console sports games. NFL2K1 even has a quite workable online play mode, too.

    3. Tony Hawk's Pro Skater--one amazing skateboard simulator, to say the least.

    4. Shenmue--one very amazing game, the very close thing to an "interactive movie."

    5. Samba di Amigo--a very fun music-based game, which makes you wonder why Konami never shipped their "Bemani" games for the US PlayStation market.

    In fact, Sega in both US and Europe are doing very well, thank you very much. And Sega fans in Japan are eagerly awaiting the release of Sakura Taisen 3 for Dreamcast, which is due in December; this should really pick up Dreamcast sales.

  • Why is this happening? (Score:3)

    by mwalker ( 66677 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @12:55PM (#650851) Homepage
    What are they doing at Sega? Burning money? I bought a Dreamcast the first day they came out. I now own about 30 Dreamcast titles - I've easily sunk over $1500 in the system. And I LOVE IT. It is by far and away the best gaming system I've ever used. I used to play Quake competitively on a PC - now I play it on Dreamcast, with a keyboard and mouse, and it's SOOO much nicer. I run BSD on my Dreamcast.

    The game availability is as vast as it is amazing. The PS2 is a year late, has like 10 titles, and no hardware anti-aliasing... and from what I've seen of the graphics, they're far from a generation ahead of dreamcast.

    Am I missing something here? Millions of units sold, piles of great titles, terriffic hardware, no CSS or Rambus inside (gag)... HOW IS SEGA LOSING MONEY?

    Is their CEO gambling? Are the engineers smoking crack wrapped in $100 bills? What's the deal here?

    If Microsoft buys Sega I'm going to cry.
  • Sega dropped the prices on the DC, so they consciously knew they were going to take a loss. They updated investors on quarterly projections as a result, too. This is different from an unexpected loss due to poor sales. In fact, their sales of DC units nearly doubled after they dropped prices and their sales marketshare grew quickly. Their past performance may not be pretty, but it's far less important than what they intend to do.
  • I think the difference here, however, is that Sega is still making great games (and I believe hold at least 6 of the top 10 current arcade game spots), while Atari was making...well...crap. So far, ignoring economic losses, Sega has moved into second position, passing up the N64 in sales. It's had a number of #1 selling titles as of late (NFL2K1, Marvel vs. Capcom 2, etc), and seems on its way up. I think it's a bit premature to count Sega out yet, especially since said announcement about developing for other systems was not about the PS2, GameCube or X-box, but about various PDA's, cell phones, and the PC.

  • *sigh* (Score:3)

    by ruck ( 156392 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @10:56AM (#650855)
    Why do these articles keep getting posted to the front page? We've probably had about 4 or 5 in the last few days, each retracting parts of the earlier ones. Some people might be interested in the latest misinformation concerning the sega saga, but post it directly into the game section. Then maybe you wouldn't get 900 "this article sucks" posts.

  • Reality Check (Score:3)

    by fondue ( 244902 ) on Friday November 03, 2000 @10:56AM (#650857)
    Point one, look at the software charts and the hardware sales in the US. Dreamcast is doing well there. Sega have indicated that they are going to develop games for other platforms. Calling this the "Doom of Sega" is foolish to say the least.

    Sega are continuing to support the Dreamcast while there is money to be made (and at the moment, there isn't, but there are still a number of quality titles on the cards and a large user base). They are putting more money into R&D (meaning new coinop stuff as well as porting to other platforms). They are still the third largest console manufacturer, after Sony and Nintendo.

    Oh, and for the myopic ppl claiming the PS2 is going to conquer all : one, it's already dated hardware, two, it's overpriced, three, there are _NO_ decent games for it yet, four, the xbox and gamecube are going to eat it for breakfast. Oh yeah, and it doesn't even have a modem !

    It's the future of gaming you know. (Snuck)

    Here's to Christmas 2001, and playing fantastic Sega games on the platform of my choice.

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