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Handhelds Hardware

Palm/Motorola to Develop Combo handheld/phone 91

Posted by Hemos from the making-technology-better dept.
dannyp writes "The New York Times reports that Palm and Motorola are going to jointly develop a phone with embedded Palm functionality. The story requires free registration, as always." I've seen a PalmPilot III/combo phone before - just looked clunky and heavy. And some of the non-US phones do a better job, but I'd still like the ultimate combo phone.
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Palm/Motorola to Develop Combo handheld/phone More

Palm/Motorola to Develop Combo handheld/phone

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  • I've usually found that products with a combo of major functions always lack something... (I can't think of any examples at this time other than a terrible fax+phone+scanner+copier combo that never did any task very well - but they're out there. The wonder machines that are mediocre at everything)

    I guess we'll see. But with Motorola and Palm together on this one, it could happen.
  • I seem to remember that, as well. If you drop the focus on PalmOS, then there are several combined phones and PDAs out there. The most known one is the (semi-ancient, but recently software-upgraded) Nokia 9110i [nokia.com], and the brand-spanking-new Ericsson R380 [ericsson.com]. These are GSM phones, of course...
  • actually, I just bought a PDQ and have been quite happy with it so far.
    there is more integration than just the dial feature (the call history is tracked in a palm program and can automatically put calls into the expense program with a setable rate/min for example)
    and they've got a documented API for accessing the phone features with your own palm programs.
    all of the phone's settings are even set through the PalmOS Preferences program.
    I just hope this Motorola version doesn't make me wish I waited..
    it IS big though, but actually is' not quite as wide as my Palm IIIx, but it's twice the depth, and about an inch or 2 taller.
  • Or you can have User "slashdot2001" pw "slashdot2001" and we can all be 70-year-old women making between 80,000.00-89,999.00 dollars a year.

    Have fun. You may also be able to find something on Cypherpunks mailing list if this one gets hijacked, or just make up another one and post it.

    Wheee!
  • The Nokia 9000 and 9110 phones (the 9000i is the only one that works witht he US GSM 1900 technology, but the 9110i for GSM 1900 is coming out eventually) are really nice. I used a 9000i for two years, and couldn't be happier. There's a lot of applications for them, too. Try http://www.communicator.org/ and http://www.nokia.com/phones/9110/.
  • Does anybody who comes up with these ideas actually use them? How do you call in an order, talk to the salesman, and read the model from notes on your palm? The only benefit is maybe a one piece wireless net access device. Read /. at a couple of bucks a minute. Derek http://jobtracker.sourceforge.net
  • Or here, Motorola is happy to show for free

    http://www.corporate-ir.net/ireye/ir_site.zhtml?ti cker=MOT&script=410&layout=-6&item_id=11 8700

  • I bought a Palm several years ago and now, when I go look at new ones, the display *still* looks the same. What I don't need is a clumsy phone based on a Palm with a poor display in it. I wan't COLOR damnit! (and not that cheesy, hot in my hand, poor exuse for a PDA that the palm color is) I want an ethernet cardd! I want a hard drive!

    I've got all that and more in my Cassiopeia. Now if those guys would just hurry up with Linux for it....

    Go Grub!
    Kord Campbell
    www.grub.org [grub.org]
  • It's available in the east - Japan/Hong Kong/China (nowhere else) at the moment.

    It's called the "Tai Chi" and here's some pictures/links:

    http://www.battery-direct.com/images/motpda.jpg
    http://www.138139.com/exhibit/motorola/taichi.gi f
    http://www.popmobile.com/emuseum/MOTOROLA/taichi .html

    All Japanese/Chinese I'm afraid.

    Anybody who wants one, talk to your local Motorola salesman and convince them to release in the west.
  • Didn't Qualcomm [qualcomm.com] already announced that they were going to make a phone (pdQ SmartPhone, a CDMA phone) to use PalmOS on it too? Here is the Press Release [qualcomm.com] from Sept 29, 1999.
  • Personally, I would LOVE a palm Vxc with one of Ericssons nifty wireless bluetooth headsets. That would effectively eliminate the need for a traditional mobile phone. The star trek factor is higher than anything else, too. Just clip the little headset thing to your collar, and whenever you Palm vibrates in your pocket, you put the headset to you ear, and say: 'answer call'.
    Woohoo! Can anyone supply a link to a picture of those? They are very, very cool.
  • ...that we already use a good many devices that are combinations themselves. My stereo can be an alarm clock. My phone has a minimal address book inside of it. My watch could be a calculator. My Palm is endlessly flexible.

    Combination in itself is not bad, it's being able to integrate the form factor and functionality seamlessly and logically. It should also not be done in a kamikazi fashion - if my PDA becomes a phone, is it absolutely necessary to mash all of a PDA's features into the device? Depends on if it's a PDA first and a phone second, or vice versa.

    The only problem that needs to be solved before phones can be PDAs is the screen size issue. If someone can figure out how to cram a large screen into, or onto, a stylishly small phone, we've got a potential winner. Fold-out screens would work, and could be done today with a hinge line in the center (or tomorrow with flexible displays).

    But why put the screen on the phone? Why not in glasses? If it's cool to wear headphones or a headset with microphone, why not add an eyepiece to that ensemble and make that the chic look?

    Bottom line - solve the interface dilemma.
  • Let's face it: In theory it's nice. One toy instead of two. Woo-hoo.

    However, the big problem is SIMULTATNEOUS USE. I can't use Graffiti with my phone if I gotta talk through it. Similarly, I don't want my PDA to pick up a phone call accidentally during an important meeting where I'm using my PDA to make sure my ass is still (gainfully) employed.

    Unless they include an earbud mic with each one sold, it's no good.
  • PalmPalm Technology [palmpalm.com] and the SK Telecom Central R&D Laboratory in Korea will begin shipping a combo cellphone/PDA, the "IMT-2000", this November. In case you're interested, there's an interview [linuxdevices.com]with PalmPalm's VP of Engineering with some details about the new device (some info was unavailable, because of a nondisclosure agreement between PalmPalm and SK Telecom). Besides having a complete built-in cellphone, the IMT-2000 has a 4" TFT display and a tiny built-in video camera, and will be provided with all the usual PDA functions. The PDA portion of the device is based on an 206 MHz Intel StrongARM SA1110, has 32M RAM and 32M Flash internal memory, and provides USB and serial ports for external I/O. The linux OS is based PalmPalm's "Tynux" embedded linux with Qt/Embedded for the GUI framework.
  • Mod trinition up, I wish folk would make the phones that way.

    I have a Nokia 7110 and its just dumb: it has all these functions which would be useful while you're on the phone, but which can't be used because its on yer ear. I would say, don't even build an earpiece and mphone on the damn things, if you're not meant to use it that way.

    Why not combine a PDA with the Ericsson bluetooth earclip phone headset, for the latest in geek gear. And lastly, even though I think my Pilot is fab, I need a bigger, colour screen. Oh, yes, I do. For streetmaps, and eBooks. When something like that comes out, I'll buy (again)...

  • For most Cell phones today, you have a choice between an ultra compact unit with a shorter battery life and a slightly larger less pocketable design with half its size/mass being the battery itself.

    PDA's don't consume nearly as much power as a cell phone (in use). This has allowed Palm to keep their design very slim _and_ have a long battery life too.

    What do you do with a hybrid device? Shouldn't is still fit in a suit's breast pocket?

    If you give it too large a battery, you reduce it's desireability as a PDA. If you give it too small a battery you're out both your PDA and your phone after a couple extended phone calls...

  • Re:If we can't invent something new... (Score:1)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I think if you did away with the keypad on a cell phoen and use a high-res screen, the form factor would still allow for a screen capable of displaying tons of information.

    That's no good because many people search for buttons by feel... Now if you had an LCD screen that also had retractable tactile feel, then it could work.

  • The PdQ was a good idea, it is just too damn thick. The thing ended up being about two inches thick, like you took a cell phone and a Palm III and glued them together.

    Like I said in an earlier post, I use a Palm III, qualcom PCS phone, and a wire connector. I can surf and get email onto my palm. You get a network connection, so you can use avantgo to browse, (with b/w images evem).

    The wire I got for my phone came with the PdQ software. It actually is pretty nice to use, but I would suggst using Avantgo as your browser.

    The cell + a palm keeps me from having a big lump in my pocket ("glad to see you, buddy") and gives me freedom to use either or both together. But I still want one device to do it all, and still be palm III (or V) size.
  • think if you did away with the keypad on a cell phoen and use a high-res screen, the form factor would still allow for a screen capable of displaying tons of information.

    That's no good because many people search for buttons by feel... Now if you had an LCD screen that also had retractable tactile feel, then it could work.

    I've always thought voice-recognition would be better than buttons. Heck, you could even speak out "555-1212".

    There ya go: no buttons, more screen real-estate; voice-recognition, no need for buttons.

  • But we all have needs/wants/desires.
    I think you're looking for this [drlaura.com] page. :)

    I don't _want_ to carry 5 devices, either. Just like I'd rather only have 1 appliance in my kitchen (combination fridge, oven, and dishwasher), but I realize that these devices serve very different purposes, and wouldn't really integrate all that well.
    Personally, I think that the Qualcomm PDA phone's lack of overall success speaks volumes on just how much people "want" these sorts of things. Don't forget that Nokia phone from a few years back that never really went anywhere.

    I can see the PalmVII, or variants, offering a GPS, or pseudo-GPS option in the future utilizing current antennas to triangulate your position (more akin to Loran-C rather than true GPS).
  • Now a phone and a PDA is a nice idea, but the ultimate combo is the phone/PDA combo with mp3 support as well as the ability to play Gameboy games. When they make that I'm sold. Why would you need anything else?
  • RealVision will be releasing [yahoo.com] an add-on for the Palm V so you can use it as a phone on GSM cell networks.

    "The communications snap-on product will provide dual-band GSM (Global System for Mobile communication) connectivity to Palm V series handhelds, and an earphone jack to enable voice communications through a headset. The product is expected to be available in early 2001 for less than U.S. $299 when purchased in conjunction with a 1-year wireless service plan."

    The 'sled' will also send and receive data which they say "will allow those users to access a wide range of Internet content..." Nothing on whether it will support WAP or i-mode, though there is an inference that it may support the Palm VII "web-clipping" applications.

  • The R380 (linked directly at the Ericsson site [ericsson.se] - I'm not typing in the stupidly long product-specific URL) is out already. The screen size issue is addressed by having the entire phone surface as display - the fold-in keypad operates by touching the surface.

    The PDA platform is EPOC, as used in the popular Psion Series 5/5mx [series5mx.com] machines, although the UI is heavily streamlined. (For a start, there's obviously no keyboard.)

    I've played with an R380 - it's very neat, if you want the all-in-one solution, but the unit is not quite powerful enough as a stand-alone PDA for me (it's about Palm-level, not Psion-level), so I prefer a full PDA plus a really small phone. That way you can talk and read/type at the same time.

  • You're right. I'll go down in the basement and dig out my Franklin Planner and my rotary phone which are stored in what used to be the coal bin. Then, I'll get into my 1967, V8 Ford Galaxy 500 and drive down to the library and work on my term paper. Of course, I'll be up all night typing it -- especially the footnotes and bibliography. But at least I'll have had a healthy meal of pot roast, gravy, and mashed potatoes (no veggies, they're out of season).
  • Most of the time I'm on my phone. I need to take notes. There's a notepad feature, but I never use it. As it would be a pain to talk and take notes on the same device. Agree?

  • If Motorola and Palm were doing just a cellphone/PDA combo they could have done that years ago. No, this is a tri-band GSM/GPRS combo. The GPRS - General Radio Packet Service technology is a genuine digital wide area packet radio system that's being rolled out now throughout the world. The tri-band part would mean that it would operate in N.America, Europe and ROW. In the US, VoiceStream, the pure GSM player, has already trialed GPRS. However, expect the whole of 2001 to get over the chicken-and-egg problem for terminal and network availablity.

    So what does GPRS give you? Well, like all good things it gets better with time. Initially you'll see fairly high speed (for wide-area wireless) IP access, comparable to a modem but it'll be "always-on" and charged irrespective of time. I expect we'll see bucket plans of megabits/month, i.e, sort of flat rate but not unlimited. Most of the terminals will support quite high data rates (64kbps), especially for reception (transmission kills your battery!) but it'll be up to the network to have the capacity and capability to support it. In real life it's probably going to be about 50kbps or so peak with maybe 28kbps operational.Again, this is just the starting point and two radio technologies - EDGE (Enhanced Datarates for GSM/Global Evolution) and the infamous 3rd Gen radio system both offer increased data speeds. EDGE is my favorite as it overlays GSM and the data speeds almost come for free. The only problem is that the operators have spent so much on the 3rd Generation licenses that they might skip EDGE in favor of just getting down and dirty with 3G. GPRS should also give you seemless international roaming.

    There'll be a number of ways to get access to the GPRS net. First, you could use your GPRS mobile phone and connect it to your laptop or PDA via a cable, IrDA or Bluetooth. The second way is to use a dedicated PC Card in your laptop or a module in your PDA - afterall whose to say you don't want to use AT&T for your phone service and VoiceStream for your wirless IP? The third and final way is what this Motorola/Palm news is about - an embedded device. Incidentally, the VisorPhone is GSM only, i.e., voice and circuit-switched data.

    Interestingly enough, in addition to the usual terminal manufacturers (Nokia, Motorola, Ericsson) for GPRS there's going to be a few new faces. Mitsubishi is rumored to have one of the more developed GPRS phones and Xircom has recently entered the fray focusing on GPRS cards and modules.

    Links Story: http://www.a llnetdevices.com/wireless/news/2000/09/25/palm_mot orola.html [allnetdevices.com]

    GPRS Technology: http://www.gprsworld.com/ [gprsworld.com] - Check out the Links page

  • This phone + pda idea is a bad one. It's like a futon. it's a bed, no it's a chair, no it's both... whatever it is, it's uncomfortable as hell.
  • Perhaps people could do something like the eCase product to be able to make something which was the size of a cellular phone, but still had the display capacity of a PDA?

    eCase URL:

    http://inviso.com/ecase.html
  • Imagine a gadget the size of a cell phone. One side of it is a touch sensitive display. Normally it shows big buttons - the size of cell phone butons, and with the same function. But touch one special button and it turns into a Palm display (with higher resolution if possible).

    As far as integrated dialing from the address book, do it the way cell phones do now. Couple it to the palm by having a category for cell phone calls. I have 1000 names and addresses in my palm, and I don't want to have to go through those for a cellular call.
  • Amen!

    When I saw the title, the first thing that came to my mind was "Great! Now only if Motorola would make a decent phone."

    I've got a friend the works on the RF circuits for Motorola in Chicago, and his advice was "buy a Nokia".

    I've owned both phones and I have to say, I like my Nokia alot better than the Mot piece o' shit I had. Admittedly, the Mot phone was older, but when I was looking at the new ones, they weren't much better.

    Let me tell you, nothing is more annoying than frequently dropping calls....

    I'll stick with Nokia until Mot gets their act together, which hopefully will be soon, because I do like alot of their other stuff (chips).
  • The problem with phones that double as PDAs is that they have too large a screen to be comfortably held to your ear, OR they have too small a screen to be really useable.

    The solution: hands free. If you don't care about annoying colleagues/your privacy, then use it in loud-speaker mode. If you do, plug in a headset.

    If you do this, you don't have to make it conform to the shape of your head, so the screen can be pocket sized and it can be flat - without making it ergonomically despicable.

    Am I right, or am I right ?

  • I am thinking of going that route myself (have the Palm, *want* the 8890 :-)... Any tips/pitfalls you'd like to share?

    I guess my biggest concern is: can you sync the Nokia with the Palm?

  • Right now the laptop, cell phone, pager, and Palm KILL me when I'm in an airport

    You are so right. People behind me in the queue issue death threats while they wait for me to unload all of the gizmos into the X-ray machine at Heathrow

    Beeeep Sir, Tazers should be carried in hand luggage only...

  • we already have this.

    sprint phone: who would you like to call?

    you: charlie

    (phone makes ringing noise)

    (talk to charlie)

  • Subject says it all, really.

    Cramming all that functionality, whether phone and PDA, or phone and toaster, into the same enclosure, is nearsighted. Eventually one component is going to burn out, or you'll want to upgrade, and then what? You buy a whole new unit? Light overhead flickers on. Wow! What a way to make a few extra bucks!!

    Now, with bluetooth networking, you can replace the phone, you can upgrade the PDA, you can replace the toaster with a toaster-oven, and they still talk to each other. AND, you can mix and match manufacturers of the components - but we wouldn't want THAT now, would we?

    The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196

  • NeoPoint [neopoint.com] has had a cell/PDA, the NP1000, out for a while now with Sprint [sprintpcs.com]. They are releasing the NP2000 [neopoint.com] in time for Christmas. The NP1600 is out with Verizon [verizon.com] now... I like being able to carry only one device to keep my phone numbers and my appointments, surf the web and call people. It's just so much simpler. It has T9 to make typing easier (it guesses the word you are trying to spell instead of having to hit the 6 key three times for an O etc.). And it syncs with outlook, notes etc. to keep me up to date. I won't go back to two separate devices. 8-)

  • This was a press release designed to coincide, to the day and hour, with Handspring's new cellular phone plug-in [handspring.com].

    Who knows whether the Palm thing is really in the works or not? The product wasn't the point. The point was the press release and the attempt to scoop a competitor. Handspring has a real product today, and Palm is hoping the press falls for the "vaporware." And most of it did.

  • Check out the devices in the book Distress by Greg Egan - even though it's over 15 years old, he hits the target strikingly well; I can see them being in the stores by 2007.
  • I've already got one of these - they're available in Australia. A beautiful interface and intelligent software - clever handwriting recognition etc. The only thing I would like to have now is synchronisation software for Linux. Starfish [starfish.com] have down the software but only for windows :-( This is a teriffic product, only slightly bulky. It needs to be wafer thin.
    --
    Fluffy Spider Technologies
  • Agreed. And to take this one step further it would be possible to integrate the two devices to 'click' into each other so as to aviod the 'ten things to carry' problem that I find I have. Perhaps the two could sync when connected, useful for e-mailing messages or just to update your cell name & number list.

  • If we can't invent something new... (Score:4)

    by BrK ( 39585 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @05:20AM (#756884) Homepage
    ...Then lets just start blending existing products together. PDA's and phones serve 2 very different purposes, and thus have 2 very different sets of design guidelines. A phone should be small(ish) and a PDA should have a large, hi-rez, readable screen. Furthermore, you should be able to take notes on your PDA while talking on your phone, and I _don't_ want yet another wire/cable/dongle to carry around, or lose, or break, or forget, etc, so don't recommend the "hands-free" solution :)

  • Honestly... I knew this was going to happen two years ago. I've actually been waiting for this to happen, so I could buy one product instead of two.


    -- "Microsoft can never die! They make the best damn joysticks around!"
  • Doesn't Qualcom already have this?

  • No NYT signup... (Score:5)

    by biftek ( 145375 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @05:22AM (#756887)
    As usual, you don't have to signup for NYT, just use the partners link:

    http://partners.nytim es.com/2000/09/25/technology/25PALM.html [nytimes.com]

  • The Qualcomm phone with the Palm OS hasn't gone anywhere. Handspring will be introducing a phone peripheral to plug into the Springboard slot, but it's going to be $300 and the service isn't cheap. Let's see if Motorola can get it right
  • I use to have a Palm Pilot and loved it. But now I have the Sprint PCS wireless web and its awesome. 90% of what I use the Palm for I can use by just accessing myYahoo!. I'm sure the remaining 10% will be here very soon.

  • It's an interesting idea.. (Score:4)

    by Talonius ( 97106 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @05:23AM (#756890)
    but as some of the other posters pointed out, it's going to be a hard sell for some people. However, the integration possibilities are really kind of cool.

    Instead of looking up a phone number on your PDA and dialing it by hand, you hit a button.

    Instead of having your PDA beep (and too damned softly!) at you when you have an appointment, your phone can vibrate, ring, or glow. (The LCD. :-))

    I admit it might not be for everyone; but for those who use the Palm as a simple address book, phone book, and appointment calendar, it might be extremely handy. I'd personally like it, just because it's one less gadget to carry. Right now the laptop, cell phone, pager, and Palm KILL me when I'm in an airport.

    What'd be extremely cool would be if the phone/Palm combo could sync up with a PC or other Palm, and transfer data back and forth.

    -- Talonius
  • http://www.handspring.com/products/visorphone/inde x.jhtml

    They've got a phone module that plugs into the springboard slot of your Handspring Visor. You can auto dial numbers of contacts, etc. And since the phone is attached directly to the Visor, It also doubles as a wireless 14.4 modem, so you can check email from the PDA/phone.

  • UI Design Questions (Score:3)

    by Alien54 ( 180860 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @05:24AM (#756892) Journal
    I keep wondering about a proper UI for these things. You have an inherent conflict of interest in the basic size of the screen, the demand for extreme ease of use, and the irresistable urge for more bells and whistles. At the very least, it is an interesting design problem.

    - - - - - - - -
    "Never apply a Star Trek solution to a Babylon 5 problem."

  • Think that is sweet. I wonder how intergrated will the Palm/OS will be in the funtion of the phone? Will you be write a program that will make a phone call or accept calls? Could I dial up into my phone and have the palm pick up send info to my computer or the other way around. If they are not careful they might have another hacker tool in the making.

  • Handspring just recently (today) announced their visorphone [handspring.com]. I think it looks kinda cool. GSM and everything!

  • Handspring is also doing the same thing with their <a href="http://handspring.com/company/pr26.jhtml;$se ssionid$0NDBYWAAAAW4VQFIAENSFEWAVAAQYIV0 ">VISORPHONE(TM)</a><P>

    HANDSPRING BRINGS VOICE COMMUNICATIONS TO HANDHELD COMPUTING WITH VISORPHONE(TM) <BR>
    Bell South DCS, Pacific Bell Wireless, Powertel and VoiceStream to provide services for breakthrough Springboard(TM) module that makes wireless phone experience simpler than ever
    <P>
    MOUNTAIN VIEW, CALIF. (September 25, 2000) - Handspring, Inc. (NASDAQ: HAND) today introduced the VisorPhone Springboard expansion module, combining the power of voice communications with the simplicity and versatility of the Visor handheld computer. VisorPhone is a compact expansion module that snaps into the Springboard expansion slot on any Visor handheld computer so people can use Visor to make and receive phone calls. VisorPhone combines two mobile products into one, creating a single integrated product for all voice and handheld computing needs.
    <P>
    "The fundamental idea behind the development of VisorPhone was to re-invent the user experience for voice calling. The last major milestone in phone design was in the late 1960s when touchtone phones replaced rotary dial phones. We felt it was time to make it easier for people to use all the new features and services available," said Ed Colligan, senior vice president of sales and marketing for Handspring. "With VisorPhone, we've leveraged the robust PIM functionality and larger screen of Visor to make things like speed dialing, caller ID, and conference calling more accessible to the average user."
    <P>
    Handspring plans to deliver a U.S. version of VisorPhone by the end of the year for U.S. $299, with simultaneous purchase of a service plan. Initially, Handspring.com will be the exclusive channel for VisorPhone sales, providing one-stop shopping for people who want to purchase a Visor, VisorPhone and a nationwide service plan in a single transaction. Current Visor owners will also be able to purchase the VisorPhone module (sold separately) and a service plan at Handspring.com. Handspring expects to sell VisorPhone through physical distribution channels in the U.S., and to deliver a European version of VisorPhone, in the first half of 2001. Four leading GSM (global system for mobile communications) carriers in the U.S., Bell South DCS, Pacific Bell Wireless, Powertel and VoiceStream plan to provide comprehensive service plans for VisorPhone that can be purchased directly through Handspring.com.
    <P>
    "We believe offering VisorPhone provides our customers with another simple solution for their wireless service needs," said Steve Sitton, president and general manager of Pacific Bell Wireless South Region. "Customers can now enjoy Pacific Bell Wireless services such as wireless Internet access and Handspring's handheld computing capabilities in one combined, easy-to-use tool."
    <P>
    more info at the link above

  • I'm rather surprised to see all the negative comments on this idea.
    I can think of so many useful applications:
    - Time spent on phone can be easily tied to contacts and provide an efficient way to itemize time billed.
    - All kinds of useful call management software such as:
    a. Managing calls so that you only receive ones from people you actually want to talk to.
    b. Keeping a calllog to track who called you and when you replied to them.
    c. One touch dialing.. or even better, Voice Recognition dialing.
    d. Software to display the cost of a call to you as you are talking based on your long distance package.
    e. Programs to interact with the PCS provider and better use their provided features.. such as voicemail retrieval, number of calls in queue..
    - Best of all: one less device to carry around.

    This is a great idea, and I'm convinced (if they can keep it reasonably priced) that they will sell a lot of those.

    Don't underestimate the value of saving a person's time to them. In fact, I have very good experience with this type of product. People are skeptical at first but buy into the idea immeadiately when they try it out.
  • Although it's not integrated, I'm surprised no one mentioned that most modern Nokia GSM phones (including those in the US) can be used as GSM modems.

    No, the two aren't integrated like the bulky Palm/Moto combination. However, a Nokia 8890 combined with a Palm V is smaller and more stylish. (Come on, they even have the same matte Al finish.) I don't even look geeky (well, at least not a geek who can't match) when I put the two together side by side at a coffee bar. I can dial-in, telnet, ftp, ssh, nnrp as I please w/o the bulk of a laptop/ricochet or the clip-on Palm solutions.

    In case no one has noticed, the trend towards cell phones is smaller (Those Nokia 8290's are just tiny!) handsets. Fighting this is (well one of many) one of the reasons why Iridium failed miserably.

    Don't think Nokia won't fight to preserve its market share by mentioning that a 88xx or an 82xx will work w/ your Palm III/V out of the box.
  • Some people just have no skilz. If you can't talk on the phone, take notes on a Palm, smoke a cigarette, drink a coke, eat a sandwich and parallel park and manual transmission vehicle at the same time you deserve to die in a car wreck.

    </sarcasm>

    All joking aside there are always going to be people who do stupid things and the way to prevent this isn't to pass a law against every stupid thing that someone and do. Seems to me that anyone in the situation I described above could and should be charged with careless driving or similar.
    ________________
    They're - They are
    Their - Belonging to them

  • This has made me crazy since the palm came out - how about fixing the IR protocol so that a palm can dial an IR-Enabled phone? The palm is too big to stick next to my head, and I feel dumb with it there. If there was a simple way to have the palm tell the phone to dial, there'd be no need for this silly combo phone. Same goes for being able to properly sync the phone and the palm together. PhoneSync does some of this, but not efficently.
  • Right now, today... Gotta be a StarTac + Motorola Clip-On Organizer. I've been using this combo for about 6 months now. Used a Palm before that and a CE prior to the Palm.

    The synch software is very good (Outlook, ACT, Notes, Yahoo, Excite, etc). The total package is small (couple of additional ounces). The clip-on runs for _months_ on a couple of $5 batteries (and it dials the phone). Phone + clip-on actually fits better in my hand. An unconscious carry.

    I'd like to see better integration between the phone and the clip-on though. Right now I can save names/numbers from the clip-on to the phone. But I'd like the caller id function on the phone to look in the clip-on as well as the phone's internal phone book. I'd be really happy I could use the clip-on as a web browser as well.
  • Furthermore, you should be able to take notes on your PDA while talking on your phone, and I _don't_ want yet another wire/cable/dongle to carry around, or lose, or break, or forget, etc, so don't recommend the "hands-free" solution I always takes notes on a piece of paper when I'm on the phone, even if I have my PDA on me. It's just faster and less irritating to the person on the other end not to be interrupted while you edit your Graffiti. I transer the note into the PDA after I get off the phone. Besides, I only take notes for maybe 10-20% of my calls.
  • Handspring also has a cell phone coming out. It's a Springboard module that was announced today [visorcentral.com].
    ------
    James Hromadka
  • You can see the screenshots for the VisorPhone UI and and Flash demo of the VP in action at Handspring.com [handspring.com]. It's actually very well thought out, especially the SMS feature. And because the VP has a modem, you're not stuck with a WAP (CRAP) browser for internet connectivity.
  • 90% of what I use the Palm for I can use by just accessing myYahoo!

    Yeah, if you don't mind every single piece of personal information about you and your shedule made vulnerable to snoops.

    I'll keep my to-do list, meeting schedule, and notes on my own PDA thank you.

  • I saw the Compaq Linux-running iPaq at Linuxworld. It's got all the audio it needs, and you _could_ hold it up to your face and the speaker and microphone are in the right place to talk and listen. It doesn't have a radio module in whichever slot format it uses (PCMCIA? or Compact Flash) that's designed for cellular, but you could build one and integrate it into the phone, and there are cellular modem systems and 11Mbps radio and similar things you could build a cell-like network with.

    Now if they'd build an integrated system that used a standard cellular headphone, and move the battery life from current MS-Palmtop levels (less than a day) to Palm levels (multiple weeks) or even just vanilla cellphone levels (4-7 days for Nokia), that'd rock.

  • If there is IRC software for the PalmPilot, I am all for the idea of having a PDA/Cell Phone.
  • you heard me ... now that all those cards and scraps of paper have moved form the wallet to the palm, its about time the money went the same way.

    this is going to take a bit of thinking with regards to sequrity but an obvious security choice would be voice recognition. another is fingerprint recognition. and the old pin number.

    i think motorola and palm should get visa or mastercard into this joining of hands, develop a port or a standard that allows users to transfer cash to other phones or devices in stores. the security will be stronger than that of the current credit cards. this will allow for great savings as fraud should drop.

    internet transactions could be finalised over the phone. order something on the net with your visapalmfone and have the item paid for automatically. (internet credit card fraud is a major problem.) this would make life very easy. of course there should be a feature that will allow the user to browse / call ananymously.

    then just to spice up the device, throw in gps (and a swiss army knife). all this is possible with gurrent technology ... just needs to be merged to one device. hope such a gizmo is affordible.

    just press the sos button and the emergency services people will find you. they'll credit your bank accout if it's a false call.

    in time, a device with these features will be implanted in everyones head.

  • I'd say that PDA's and phones have quite a large overlap.

    My list of phone numbers is in my PDA. If I want to call someone, I have to copy it to a phone.

    Whilst on the call, I might want to book an appointment, so my diary application is needed. If the remote end could send a set of DTMF's or 1200 baud modem tones, and offer me the appointment, that would be great.

    Finally, internet access over the phone would be very useful. Connect to a website to find out what's playing at the movies tonight.

    Obviously entering or viewing data while using a voice phone isn't terribly easy, but with a decent design, it's not required.


  • Well aware...

    Got the Nokia from the same Company on the same net...

    ..thus the conclusion that the phone sucks...
  • your point, caller??

    j.

  • this isn't big news (Score:5)

    by kootch ( 81702 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @05:25AM (#756911) Homepage
    Qualcomm already makes a cell phone with Palm functionality on the Sprint Network (I don't know if it works elsewhere). It's called the Qualcomm pdQ.

    Info can be found here [sprintpcs.com]

    Features:
    Smart Phone Digital phone and electronic organizer in one package.
    - 3COM-based (Palm III platform) Personal digital assistant (PDA) is built-in.
    - Address book keeps track of names, addresses, phone numbers, e-mail and website addresses, as well as other information about your personal and business contacts.
    - You can make a call, send an e-mail or open Internet sites directly from your address book. - Date book records appointments quickly and easily.
    - To-Do list allows you to make a list of things to do and assign a priority level and due date for each task.
    - Calculator lets you perform basic operations.
    - HotSync Technology: Synchronize data between your phone and your PC.

    Wireless Web Message Capable
    This phone is MiniBrowser ready, includes all necessary items (software and cable) for wireless connectivity and can receive wireless web messages. Access the Internet to browse text-only versions of popular web sites. Check weather reports, sports scores, stock reports and more.

    Stylus Navigation
    Large Display offers touch-screen capabilities and stylus-based navigation. Hold the stylus like a pen, and you can write directly on the screen.

    Funny thing is that this phone doesn't sell well. When will people learn that taking two things they like, like ice cream and tuna fish, and combining them simply does not always work. This is a perfect example.

    People, especially americans, want smaller phones. Hell, people that WANT a Palm will get a Palm. The majority just want a cell phone and don't need that additional functionality. Plus, putting a huge block of a phone against your ear simply is not "new yorker-ish" (ie stylish)

  • Instead of looking up a phone number on your PDA and dialing it by hand, you hit a button.

    Wasn't this sort of the hype surrounding Bluetooth? All the devices within (?) 3meters of you could all talk to each other. Personally, I don't want my PDA broadcasting the numbers I'm calling over easily-sniffable RF...

  • Furthermore, you should be able to take notes on your PDA while talking on your phone,

    I already can see someone on the highway talking on their phone, and taking notes on their PDA while on the phone....
    Its bad enough there are accidents while just talking on the phone while driving..... Their should be a law about this (there is one already in several European countries...)


    -- "Microsoft can never die! They make the best damn joysticks around!"
  • Jakob Nielsen took on mobile devices and phone combos in his latest alertbox [useit.com] article. He says a numeric keypad is Bad(tm) whereas the Palm interface is Good(tm).
  • Have you ever tried the Qualcomm/PDA phone? I tried one of my friends and it was super clunky. I was hard to talk and use the PDA at the same time. We need those things from the tv show Earth: Final Conflict.
  • Will you be write a program that will make a phone call or accept calls?

    Digital airtime may be gettin' cheap and all, but do you really want to run a war dialer on your cell phone?
    ________________
    They're - They are
    Their - Belonging to them

  • Wau! (Score:1)

    by deno ( 814 )
    Waht a winning combination: We'll get a device with quality of motorolas phones, with Palms pricetag! Sorry, I KNOW this is troll, but I simply can not forget the face of my friend Patricia when she realised that her "exciting", "cute", "wonderfull" (and quite expensive too) new little Motorola phone, and not beeing able to get a connection at places where other phones would work withouth any problems. That was like 1.5 years ago, and I still see the same model (now for free) in the shops...

  • Re:If we can't invent something new... (Score:3)

    by gatzke ( 2977 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @05:28AM (#756918) Homepage Journal
    But we all have needs/wants/desires. I personally don't want to carry 5 different devices. One device the size of a palm III would be great.

    I want:
    1. basic Palm III functions (address book, schedules, games, etc.)
    2. cell phone usage (integrated with address book, click and dial)
    3. mp3s (and 128+ MB storage)
    4. gps (I get lost)
    5. limited voice recognition ("new memo, buy beer" )
    6. Wireless, easy communication to laptop, etc (IrDa, Bluetooth, wireless LAN)

    The new Compaq iPaq can do these things with add-ons, but then it is as big as the clunky Qualcomm PdQ thing that integrated palm III with a phone. Damn thing was a brick.

    I now use a qualcomm phone, a palm III and a wire. I can check mail/surf web, but I have to hook up this damn wire all the time and carry three pieces of crap.

    One day...
  • The Qualcomm PDQ cell phone was a Qualcomm 800 series phone with an integrated palm pilot. Sounds great, right?

    You could have done the same job at home, sans the plastic packaging. The Palm pilot was simply thrown in; the only integration was to make the Palm 'dial' the phone. They didn't share a board, components, or anything.

    Seriously, if we're going to throw devices together like this, let's do it right.
  • You may be right in saying that these things might not sell well, but I firmly believe there is a market. All else being equal, a Cellphone/PDA combo will be smaller than a standalone PDA and a standalone cell phone. People will pay for that.
    'Round the firewall,
    Out the modem,
    Through the router,
    Down the wire,
  • why? why do you need your calendar items on your cell phone? yea, it would be nice to have a better address book or a better way of updating it, but why not just find a way to sync the address book of the phone to the PDA?
  • People are starving, OPEC is starting its jihad, the terrorism season is just starting, and you people are worried about getting a stinking palm on your cell phone? It's time to rethink your priorities. Stop reading your gilded, titanium-cover edition of "Evil Geniuses" and do something that actually makes the world a better place, not a "more profitable zone of commerce."
  • Personally, I would prefer a separate PDA and phone, but they should be tightly integrated (using Bluetooth or similar). The possibilities are essentially the same as with a combined device (browse the web, caller ID, call from PDA, etc.), but to me having two separate devices with specific functions seems a lot more convenient.

    You beat me to it! The interface and purpose of a PDA is totally different than those of a cell phone. Not to say you shouldn't tie them together tightly, but you might as well have the Palm 9 that Motley Fool 'announced' a few months ago. I'm too lazy to look it up, but they were joking about a Palm that had every conceivable feature-- and weighed 30 pounds.

    Frankly, most of the weight of a portable anything is its battery. So you should put that on a 'utility belt'-- it can charge by induction in a charger embedded in your chair at work. All your electrical stuff could have a short duration battery-- say about a half hour of use. Then, they charge as needed while they are clipped to your belt.

    Then, you put the PDA's processor, memory, and your cell phone's antenna onto the utility belt-- they'll all talk to one another over Bluetooth. Not only are you putting weight where your body is designed to hold it, but you are saving weight by consolidating your power needs and limiting the handheld portion of the device to the interface only.

    This way, you have a belt which is about as bulky as it is now (or less, since it doesn't have to be designed to make everything easily in reach, since much of the bulk and weight will not be accessed by the user while the belt is worn). Your 'cell phone' would be a microphone, an earpiece, and (maybe) a keypad (or maybe just a Secret Service-style earpiece with a bluetooth transmitter and a hearing aid battery). Your PDA would be a touch sensitive screen, a stylus, and maybe some buttons. Your digital camera would be a wand with maybe a viewfinder, a lense and a button.

    The problem with combos is that they tend to try to do everything and fail. The nice thing about Bluetooth is that it encourages a better distribution of labor between devices.

    Of course, the downside is that you move the EMF's from next to your brain to your genitalia, but hey, that's progress. ;)

  • It just makes more sence to me if they would combine things we actually need or want together, like (out of date) mp3 player with a cd, cell phone with digital camera, PDA with phone dialer, leather seats without the heated mirrors, K-Y and wet naps... The list goes on... see what you can come up with.

  • Re:If we can't invent something new... (Score:3)

    by markt4 ( 84886 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @07:06AM (#756925)
    Furthermore, you should be able to take notes on your PDA while talking on your phone, and I _don't_ want yet another wire/cable/dongle to carry around, or lose, or break, or forget, etc, so don't recommend the "hands-free" solution :)

    Well, if you want to risk brain tumors by holding your "small(ish)" cell phone to your ear, by all means, be my guest. Me, I already use an earphone/mic wire to talk on my cell (as do most people I've seen using cell phones in Europe lately). Since I already have to carry around my PDA anyway, why not have the option to plug that earphone/mic wire into my Palm or Handspring or whatever and use it as a phone too?

    However, I don't like the idea in this article of shrinking the Palm into a phone (like the Qualcomm pdQ phone). I'd much rather just leave my Palm the size it is and add phone functionality to it (like Handspring).
  • alright...curve it around...

  • Palm VII (Score:3)

    by Devil Ducky ( 48672 ) <slashdot@devilducky.org> on Monday September 25, 2000 @05:29AM (#756927) Homepage
    The way they should do this is to take the Palm VII design and add phone support. They could call it the Palm VII.V

    After all which is more difficult (I imagine) adding phone support to a working (and proven, powerful, popular, and a few more P-words) PDA, or to add PDA support to a working phone? I would believe that the first is easier, all it needs is a microphone and speaker.

    Devil Ducky
  • It may run Windows CE, but the Trium Mondo looks like a very cool piece of kit - have a look here [trium-gsm.com]

    It can do GSM with GPRS, so when that goes mainstream in the next few months (in the UK at least) we'll have always-on, mobile internet. Can't wait! Of course there's always the Ericsson R380 in the mean time...

    j.

  • I want integration, not convergence (Score:4)

    by ruud ( 7631 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @05:29AM (#756929) Homepage
    Personally, I would prefer a separate PDA and phone, but they should be tightly integrated (using Bluetooth or similar). The possibilities are essentially the same as with a combined device (browse the web, caller ID, call from PDA, etc.), but to me having two separate devices with specific functions seems a lot more convenient.
    --
  • Bluetooth is spread-spectrum, so I doubt it qualifies as "easily sniffable". But then again, I'm a (software) hacker, not an EE whiz. ;^)

  • Re:If we can't invent something new... (Score:3)

    by Trinition ( 114758 ) on Monday September 25, 2000 @05:31AM (#756931) Homepage
    A phone should be small(ish) and a PDA should have a large, hi-rez, readable screen.

    I think if you did away with the keypad on a cell phoen and use a high-res screen, the form factor would still allow for a screen capable of displaying tons of information.

    don't recommend the "hands-free" solution

    Well, if you'd prefer to gum up your scroin with your bodily oils, go right ahead. I'f you'd rather lose a hand or shoulder while talking on the phone, go ahead.

    I think a lot of poeple, myself included, would prefer hands-free opertation -- which would, as you said, enable you to use the PDA while tlaking on the phone. All you need to communicate via a phone is a speaker/ear-piece and a mic.

  • I just want the Saint's cell phone/palmtop combo. It was some Nokia that wasn't avaialble in the US.
  • What'd be extremely cool would be if the phone/Palm combo could sync up with a PC or other Palm, and transfer data back and forth.

    In some of the articles about this, it was confirmed that the device will sync to a computer.

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