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Linux Software

Linux In Africa: Free, But So Far Scarce 176

Posted by timothy from the set-your-clock-for-zimbabwe-local-time dept.
Elvis Maximus writes: "Wired News is running an interesting piece on the inroads Linux is making in Africa. The article focuses on the advantages of the 'free beer' nature of Linux, which is good, but neglects the fact that open source empowers people in developing countries to solve their own specific problems. Worth a look." Ironically, if commerical software vendors are vigilant, the advantages of Free alternatives will only be more evident. But licensing isn't as pressing an issue, maybe, when getting access at all isn't easy for most Africans.
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Linux In Africa: Free, But So Far Scarce More

Linux In Africa: Free, But So Far Scarce

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  • Unfortunately your post isn't a troll, because I've seen you spewing the same crap in several other posts. However I plan on addressing your so called evidence for white sumpremacy since I believe it should not be left unchallenged.

    First off, the correlation between "prosperity" and white rule in South Africa does not prove causation, in fact it proves almost nothing. With the same logic one could argue 1000 years ago that nothern "white" Europeans were hopelessly backward and had never produced anything of value by comparison to Muslims of North Africa, the Ashanti of West Africa, etc... I presume a white supremacist like you wouldn't go for this?

    Also drawing conclusions on the relative superiority of "races" from less than 7 years of economic data strains the imagination to say the least. Perhaps you should do the same thing in the United States in the 1930s, blaming something as complicated as the Depression on the racial mix of the leadership of the US? It's riduculous. Particulary since South Africa is suffering from the AIDS crisis (like every other nation in Africa) which has little to do with the current leadership.

    If you want to figure out why some countries or continents are poor and others are rich you are going to have to dig a little deeper. It has nothing to do with racial determinism and everything to do with history, geography, class struggle, religion, politics, etc... Read a little more asshole.

  • BTW... I think Libya is LY, but I'm not 100% sure.
  • Famine is generally accepted to be a MANMADE occurrence caused by a semi/deliberate policy of governments.

    Got a troublesome minority? No problem, wait for a food shortage and then fail to do anything about it, or alternatively, make it worse through selective policy manipulation.

    Elgon
  • Excellently said! Thank you.

    -slams
  • It is very important that PCs preloaded with Linux are shipped and sold to the first time home users in African cities. For most of them it would be the first computer experience at all. So it is crucial that this experience is on the Linux platform. Because once you are used to MS, the likelihood to switch afterwards is very small.

    Must be working out of the box, must be cheaper than a Windows box, must have excellent documentation going under the hood beneath of the GUI.

    Must have no glitches to configure modem dial-ups or whatever wireless access is mostly used. If that doesn't work easily, you can't catch the first time home-user.

    Free printed documentation accompanying the hard- and software, to study before the box is set up, is crucial.

    You can't make them dependent on critical information from online sources. You can't ship and sell printed documentation independently either. (Too expensive, no one would buy it) The way to go is to ship and sell preconfigured Linux on low cost machines with excellent, printed end-user newbie documentation. That documentation will be the only "textbook" the home-user will have to learn anything about computer in all likelihood.

    Publishers and companies who sell preconfigured hardware with Linux should ship books together with the hardware to save costs. I don't see why VA-Linux for expample couldn't ship RedHat's or other distribution's handbooks, with other publisher's Linux books all prepacked in one box.

    Geeks out there, just imagine your better halves would go off and study the snakes in the African rain forest. She hasn't really used Linux yet and doesn't know much about computer. What would you pack to help her succeed on her own with a Linux box ? Whatever you come up with, that's the way any African household would need it too. Very simple.

  • Certainly a GOOD THING. Linux brings dedicatd geeks, dedicated geeks bring computer literacy. Something the Black Continent could use. And you'll soon have hordes of geeks from Africa, it's like in China: only a small percentage may use it, but Africa is huge.

    Also, of course there's the co-notation of Africa with Idi Amin's, Abu Sanja's and Mobutu SeSeSeko's, famine, starvation and civil wars. But if you look at Europe in 1700 you'll see just that. Or look at Singapore or China circa 1930. Backwards nations can catch up.

    Also, I remember a slashdot poll which asked which continent you were on and they left our Africa, but included Antarctida.

  • I can see it now. A jeep pulls up in a village and they announce that there is a delivery of free Linux CDs. People misunderstand and think that it's Linux seeds. Now, nobody knows what Linux is, but seeds grow food, and they figure this must be a free UN agricultural handout. So they plow their fields and plant these strange looking seeds in the ground and irrigate them with what little water they have.

    6 months later the fields are still barren, but several more jeep loads of well intentioned Linux advocates return to see how they are doing. Oh! the villagers exclaim, that's what Linux seeds grow: Pretentions foreigners. Best crop they ever had. Finger lickin' good.

    One of the wise village elders is heard to remark that whatever this Linux is, it's a lot like Unix--difficult to understand at first, and you have to go through a lot of steps that aren't really necessary, but if you wait long enough you eventually get a setup that works.

  • Actually, I don't even think that you've read the post. You claimed:

    He then goes on to conclude the Slashdotteri are not open minded because they all don't share the same uniform views, which he thinks they all should.

    Had you actually read what I said, you'd notice that if anything, I'm actually indicating the opposite - we tend to "eschew that which is not [familiar]".

    who claims his opinions and beliefs are superior...

    Where do I make this claim?
    We all know his views and opinions are the real truth
    Or this one?

    -jerdenn

  • ... but do you know what makes third-world countries third-world? (I am not making a generalization about the entire continent.)

    It is not that the people are uneduacated, lazy or religious fanatics. It is simply that their leaders draw out huge loans from Europe and US banks for their election, coup, new mansion or whatever selfish reason. Then these leaders turn around and put that burden on the people.

    I remember a discussion at a local college about this very same subject. The best way to lift certain countries out of (impossible) debt is to erase the interest and quite possibly, the principle.

    I am all for this (ahh, yes I am a liberal) because I expect none of these countries to pay me back anytime soon. This would go a long way to truly making this world a better place.

    This is the third time this week I have heard or read something about technology in Africa. A company who does paperless documentation based out of Dallas has a major office in Nigeria.


    ChozSun [e-mail] [mailto]
  • It seems the situation you have in Heliopolis is the same we have in Jakarta. Here, there is a store you can go to and buy any type of software sold. The price: $2.50 a CD, $4.00 for two - you name it, you can buy it. In fact, I only know of one dealer where you can buy licensed software, but you you have to wait months to get most of it, and forget about getting obscure stuff.

    I saw a talk from the country manager for M$ about two months ago. He was talking about piracy. The piracy levels for India and most of South East Asia are from 60% to 90%. A guy I work with is from India and he said his company there had only bought licensed software once.

    So, at this time, money is not a factor. But it will be. Here, software, books and movies are vigourously pirated (no legal repercussions whatsoever), but music is not. I have yet to notice any store selling pirated music. From that I can assume that the local authorities have the ability to rid the country of software piracy, but have chosen not to.

    At some time in the future the piracy will stop, and a tremendous opportunity for 'free-as-in-beer' software will open. No one will think of paying the $ for a windows install when the Linux install is free. There will be millions of computer users who need quality desktop applications. (On the server, Linux use is already widespread here).

    I think the real opportunity Linux desktop development will be in countries like this one.

  • Note for a geek from Africa. (Score:4)

    by line-bundle ( 235965 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @07:32PM (#758761) Homepage Journal
    \begin{gripe}
    Africa is a HUGE place. It pains me when people try to describe it as one little country. Most of you do not describe Europe or Asia in that fashion.
    \end{gripe}

    I am from Zimbabwe. Geeks exist there. Here is my personal view of the free software situation in Zimbabwe (at least when I was there three years ago)

    Linux and FreeBSD were expensive. It could be obtained in two ways. One way was to download it yourself. But local calls were charged by the minute, so it cost a lot. The second way was to get an ISP to burn a CD for you, but they were mostly clueless and most likely would only get the kernel, AND bill you a huge amount.

    Importing the CD was difficult due to foreign currency restrictions, and the general cost of a US dollar.

    The main university there (http://www.uz.ac.zw) was and still has the computer facilities controlled by power freaks with no computer clue, and so getting free software there was hopeless.

    The other problem (which is also here in the US) is that you still paid the MSFT tax.
  • Most of Africa is feeding itself.
    Holy shit, someone tell Tina Yuthers.

    ---------///----------
    All generalizations are false.

  • What if MS gave the OS for free, and made money off the apps like Office, etc? Give away the razor, sell them blades.
  • I had the pleasure of working with someone who was from africa. He told me that software piracy there is so great that you have to come here to the USA to understand that it is not the general order of things.

    If it is on a disk it is "FREE BEER" over there.

    You would have to be hiding in a hole to not understand all the economic perils in Africa as well as the political ones. Techies that could have such concerns are certainly lucky to have such freedom from the basics.

    Here is a link to the World Health Organization about general health and well being. Most of africa is screwed.
    http://wwwnt.who.int/whosis/statistics/whr_stati stics/maps/map1.pdf

  • PC at its best.

    Have you been able to figure out why there is so much difference between Africa and ,say, Japan ?
    Have you ?
    Please enlighten us, instead of spitting standard lelftis bullshit.

    BTW. you completely don't understand my point.
    It is not about economical ups and downs (depression) but about complete lack of any advancement that is so characteristic to African continent.
    "I presume a white supremacist like you wouldn't go for this?"

    And you know what, white supremacy is not a dirty word. I see all kinds of "black heritage/pride" organizations here in US thriving and being pictured as an example of what "diversity" is all about. Why is it so "uncool" for white man to do the same ?

    PS. My opinion about SA

  • This just in:

    Linux is available to most Kindergarten classes, but so far is scarce. Is this just another example of Microsoft using its power to stomp out Linux in our educational environments?!!!

    bah. Timothy, you are obviously a troll who has somehow gained story-posting priviledges.

  • I just came back from a trip to Nigeria, where we're working to implement an e-commerce system. While it's easy and tempting to throw 'Africa' into one basket, wars in Angola, Congo, and dozens of other African countries are as relevant to life in more peaceful countries as is a war in Kozovo to life in Finland. Africa is a large continent, diverse, and supports many large and successful free-market enterprises.

    These businesses desperately need to improve their communications, cut costs, and reach their customers and suppliers faster. African companies pay an incredible amount for telecommunications, and cheap reliable solutions such as we're used to up north still need to be put into place, one way or another.

    Making life easier for business makes the whole economy work better, makes the country richer, and does actually make life better for the average African.

    So, it was curious to debate the merits of Linux - which I did - with some Nigerian IT people. They asked whether open systems were not more likely to be insecure. I explained that the reverse was true. They asked whether support was an issue. I said that it might be, but any kind of support is hard to get in a country where the phone network supports a 9600-baud connection with difficulty. It's quite likely that we will use Linux for most of the e-commerce servers in this project. Unlike many IT people elsewhere, Nigerians (I can't speak for other Africans) are incredibly practical, and very quick to see the benefits of solutions like Linux.

    Africans are used to being ripped-off by every passing western businessman, bank, and agency. 'Free', in any sense of the word, is a little bit abstract. It may take some time, but Linux, along with all the other millions of free and OS goodies out there will be appreciated and well used in African IT.

  • #3: Africans don't get it Answer: Some of them get it immediately. When John Perry Barlow toured Africa a couple of years ago, he showed a nomad tribesman the Internet from his laptop. Immediately the guy realised he could market his wares (rock salt and animal skins) to anyone in the world using this technology. This from somone who has probably never left his home village in the middle of the Sahara.

    An African tribesman want to sell his product at market?? I thought the excuse for Africa never developing was that it is a strictly non-capitalist society??

  • I'd think affording the $1000 computer would be the problem...

    Agreed, a $1000 computer would be a problem. So avoid that problem and recognize you don't need to spend $1000 on a computer to run Linux. Sure, a used $200 P200 won't run things as "zippily" as a newer, faster computer, but if you're starting from zero, that used $200 is a damn good first step.

    I would bet there is enough excess old hardware (especially from corporations) in the US that a non-profit organization could be kept very busy collecting it and shipping it to those in Africa who want to computerize but can't afford to yet. If Linux was pre-loaded and the computers were going to people who weren't already literate with Micro$oft's products, there would be no conversion issue (except for M$).

  • Perhaps you should read some books, instead of trolling slashdot.
    -----------------------------------
    "The Negroes' rude ignorance has never invented any effectual
    weapons of defense or destruction: they appear incapable of
    forming any extensive plans of government or conquest: and the
    obvious inferiority of their mental faculties has been discovered
    and abused by the nations of the temperate zone." --Edward
    Gibbon, historian and author of THE DECLINE AND
    FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, (V.III, pg. 277)

    Yeah, you can find this one in your local library.
  • Linux (as well as other free OSes, such as *BSD) is not really finding the acceptance here that it has found in America. I attribute this to several factors:

    * Availability. It's not easy getting a Linux distro here in South Africa, since your options are to either buy it or download it. If you're looking to buy it, you'll have to get it shipped in from overseas and buy it over the internet, since I have yet to come across a South African computer shop that sells any Linux distros - if you're a student, this is a problem, since it's hard to get a credit card without a steady job, which many students don't have. If you're looking to download an ISO image and burn it, you're looking at hours spent watching a progress meter; download speeds of 56K here are regarded as top-of-the-line, and ADSL, satellite access, etc, are still a bit out of reach for the average consumer.

    * Attractiveness. MWeb, Vodacom's offerings, and other major ISPs here in South Africa sure as hell don't support Linux! They ship you winmodems, expect you to use good ol' Windows for everything, and don't even make a pretense of acknowledging Linux as existing. So if you're signed up to those services, which many people are, then using Linux pretty much precludes Internet access. Fun, eh?

    * Corporate Acceptance. Rhodes University, where I'm studying, recently signed an agreement with Microsoft to be able to get free or cheap upgrades to MS products, an agreement which effectively ties us into being a Microsoft-only shop. Frankly, I don't think some of our tech support guys are capable of supporting a Unix system. Other organizations are just as bad; they're mostly tied into Microsoft licences, and won't accept anything else without a fight - free software is still regarded as shoddy or unsupported.

    * Publicity. People here just don't know it exists. And when you tell them that you run Linux, they ask "...but can I run on it?". Technology magazines here don't really cover Linux or *BSD, and when they do they almost inevitably portray it as "the OTHER choice", suggesting that *if you can't use Windows* then you should go with a free alternative.

    * Support. Yes, I know you can go to newsgroups, IRC, etc for help. But many newbies don't know the right places to go... and in America, you can call up and get support, but here you've got to pretty much figure it out as you go; when I was starting out, it took me some time to find all the places I could get help from. And of course, even buying support is very, very expensive; Red Hat's price of about $160 (or thereabouts) is just under a thousand South African rands.

    So you see, Microsoft really does have a pretty good stranglehold over here. There are a few LUGs around, and students are increasingly getting more frustrated with Windows and Microsoft products, and turning to the free OSes, but changing things will take a long time. The culture here will have to change first; in America, Linux is regarded as a viable choice, but here it's just another computer-jargon word to many people. Given time, though, I think that it will be a success on the African continent.
  • Business Software Alliance, a U.S. anti-piracy lobby, estimates piracy levels in South Africa at 49 percent, with the loss to the South African economy estimated at US$94.2 million.
    Someone (either the author of the article or the Business Software Alliance) needs to take some lessons on economics. If a South African rips a copy of Win98, and that piece of software retails for $80, that's not eighty dollars lost to the South African economy. That's sixty bucks that won't be shipped back to Redmond, Washington (presuming the retailer is taking a decent cut). Plus, the eighty dollars which the pirate saved himself will be used to purchase other goods and services he finds desirable (as opposed to flushing the money down the toilet, as the BSA model probably presumes).

    In short, the only South Africans this hurts are the software retailers. When a continent as bad off as Africa can purchase American goods like Windows 98 for pennies on the dollar, I have a hard time sympathizing with the wealthy corporations who are trying to get tough on piracy.

    Hmm. . . Since Microsoft is losing so much to African piracy anyways, why don't they start "donating" their software as a humanitarian service. For the cost of a CD and [optional] documentation, they could get a tax break for the full price of a copy. Heck, they might make more money that way than they do now. [Note: Bill, if you're reading this, remember that IANAL. Run it by your own people first.]

  • Microsoft will never make their operating systems free. More people in this world use Windows, and will pay large ammounts of money for site licenses. Many companies willingly do this, and will continue to do so in the future. The only thing I can see happening is just the price dropping, but that still wouldn't justify the ability to make billions so easily.

    -PovRayMan
  • Is the computing world really that boring today. I mean another flame war on kde vs. gnome or how microsoft sucks even microsoft office seems to run a whole lot better than staroffice, and not to mention the wonderful state of the latest browser. Seriously, does it really matter that a continent full of starving people can know sit and contemplate open source software and how it benifits them. The money used to provide the internet or the free cdroms could be much more beneficial, ummmm FEEDING THEM! How in the world did this story get posted. I understand that it does involve linux and that means that for some reason it is always important, but this isn't even funny. Can anyone please give a logical reason how this got posted?? anyone?
  • I would tend to agree with you, but not because Free software doesn't cost anything. Pay software has prevailed so far because its architecture is made for games, which is the primary use of computers. One might argue that Word 2000 isn't a game, but, last time I checked, games were the only computer program that used an animated character.

    Windows is installed on most every computer sold, and mostly because people like the way it works with their games. If the computer manufacturers give consumers the option of Linux or dual-booting, not only do they lose the gaming aspect(not in dual booting, though), but M$ charges a lot more for the Win98/SE/ME/whatever license included.

    If people would quit screwing around with their toy computers and try to get work done, they might see the benefit of Linux. Or, then again, they might not.

    Tell me what makes you so afraid
    Of all those people you say you hate

  • What the hell .. you are reading American comics and complaining that they feature American heroes/villains ?

    This was only an example. No, I am not complaining about comics featuring USian (HEY, Americans are people from the *WHOLE* continent, not just US) characters, but about the short-sighted vision they induce: you have a global population of heroes, and for some weird reason 80% of them come from the United States. Isn't that... revolting?

    There are another examples, if you must.

    BTW. If it weren't for the available markets US companies would not sell anything abroad. Obviously people want this cheap pop-culture and who are you to argue with them ?

    Obviously there are people who want Windows. Who am I to argue with them? You have to understand that sometimes people choose the worst option, either because they are uneducated (or manipulated) or conservationist. In this case, I think it is at least a good idea to educate them.


    Patola (Cláudio Sampaio) - Solvo IT
    IBM CATE
    SAIR GNU/Linux Certified

  • I agree with you - it is unequal. However, as I said, educating people only goes so far. Most of the Europe (or pick some other first of secod world country) is already well educated and perfectly capable of making decisions on their own.
    Cheap pop-culture is exactly that, cheap, easy going entertainment for the masses.If you wish to engage in something more meaningfull there are options available as well.
    Do we want to introdoce goverment mandated culture ?
  • Why bother worrying about a trendy OS when over 75% of your population doesn't know where its next meal is coming from? Gimme a break! This has gotta be one of the worst stories ever posted on slashdot.
  • Wait a minute. You mean to say that these two examples are poor because they are created and owned by white africans? Thats the first time I've actually heard a clear-cut racist statement on Slashdot. How disgusting.
  • You are/were one of the few middle or upper class people living in Africa. How many of your countrymen own a telephone?

    There are any number of reasons why Africa will never be anything but a gaggle of third-world 'nations'. Until africa has stable governments, a manufacturing base and literacy little or no economic development will take place.

    Hard currency in Africa comes from the export of raw materials such as timber, gold, diamonds, etc. As rich as many parts of Africa are in resources, they will never develop because they must import all but the simplest manufactured goods and tools. Study American history and you will find that former colonies cannot develop into legitimate powers until they develop an intellectual and manufacturing base.

    Colonialism is still alive and well in sub-saharan Africa.

    That is the truth, you can call me a racist if you wish, but that will not change the facts.


  • I'd like to observe, just for the record, that not one of these idiots seems to be aware that "The White Man's Burden" is from Rudyard Fucking Kipling, not goddamn Jonathan Swift. HELLO?! (Tap, tap) Is this thing on? Rudyard Kipling, anyone? Anyone? Anyone?

    Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick, you people are dumb as a box of rocks. The above material was wasted on you fools. GAD!

    What a waste. What a sad, shameful waste.

  • Maybe because there aren't any geeks in Africa?
  • Or was it Sally Struthers?

    ---------///----------
    All generalizations are false.

  • Thats his point exactly, religion in any form causes war
  • In this entire article, there's nobody stealing copyrighted works, nobody hacking some company's software/hardware, no mention of Napster, DeCSS, CueCat, RIAA or the MPAA.

    Slashdot editors: Are you guys sure this is a valid slashdot article? Come on! Stuff like this doesn't matter!

  • Would compiling a colonel involve taking a seargent and a leuitenant and kinda squishing them together? Please clear that up, i must be as dumb as you say those africans are.

  • When Netscape made it's web browser free, it set a precident for browsers in the future. Today, nobody would even consider paying for a web browser like a regular piece of software. I predict Microsoft will make their OS free in the near future, to keep competitive with free alternatives.

    --

  • First, all of human life. Now, Linux.

    All the really cool stuff starts in Africa.

    ^_^
    ---
  • The Boxer Rebelion, The Holocaust in Germany, The Nanjing Massacre, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, The Killing Fields of Cambodia: all politically motivated by political ideology.

    Political ideology and religious ideology are the _same_ ideology, and the similarities are not clevery disguised. Popes and presidents, Cardinal Richelieu and Congressman Jesse Helms... different costumes, different offices, different excuses, but the same center.
  • Me?

    I was referring to it taking off, not starting initially. Jeezus, did you actually believe I thought Linux was just invented?
    ---
  • I agree. Not only OSS applications and Linux is the key, also all the online documentation available to students locally in their own countries. No need necessarily anymore to leave to Europe or USA to get access to technological information.

    The high telco costs are the only real problem at the moment.

    If you can manage low cost connections to the local student community, there is no need anymore to get ripped off by western technical consultants (who need a job as much as you do). You will be able to help yourself. Linux and OSS applications will play a catalyst in that, I am very confident for that.

  • The problem with access (Score:3)

    by bonzoesc ( 155812 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @12:59PM (#758792) Homepage
    Due to the sheer expense of connecting the 'Dark Continent,' individuals are unlikely to be able to provide internet access to Africa, which is the best way to get a copy of Linux there. Companies won't do it after the example Iridium set for global telephone and network access, and the fact that Africa isn't really rich enough to provide a source of income for any company with investors nuts enough to inves in them.

    Unless something commercially viable happens in Africa, they are unlikely to get Internet and Linxu access in the near future.

    Tell me what makes you so afraid
    Of all those people you say you hate

  • Maybe they aren't getting enough food to even care about linux or computers.

    Why don't we give them food first, yes Linux is free, but they can't eat it.
  • Millions of people in Africa don't even have clean drinking water!
    Enough of the Live-aid stereotype Africans-as-victims crap. Africans are as capable of doing things for themselves as anybody else. Yes, there is famine and war in parts of Africa but - gasp, shock, horror - there are also hospitals, universities, newspapers, and even (omigod) telecommunication networks.
    This is incredibly petty
    No, you are incredibly patronising. African economies face the same technical challenges as the rest of us and issues of copyright and monopoly are as least as vital for them.

  • My clock is set to Egypt local time, and... (Score:5)

    by Elvis Maximus ( 193433 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @01:41PM (#758795) Homepage

    The free-as-in-beerness of Linux is something that is touted a lot by Linux advocates in developing countries, myself included. But I had an experience recently that made me wonder whether this would have any "selling" power at all.

    I'm studying for my MCSE (don't all spit at once, OK guys?) and though I use NT 4.0 at work, I'm going straight for the Windows 2000 track since the NT 4.0 cert is being phased out. So I wanted a copy of Windows 2000 to play with. I went to every computer shop I knew in town, including the big CompuMall in Heliopolis. Nobody had a licensed copy of Windows 2000 -- or, indeed, any other version of Windows -- for sale. Actually, that's not entirely true; one shop had some OEM-only copies of Windows 95 Arabic they were willing to take out of a hardware box and sell me. Windows is so widely pirated here that nobody bothers trying to sell it.

    More striking was the fact that many of the shop owners and clerks did not know that one could buy Windows. Several of them told me matter-of-factly that Windows is not something that is sold ("Windows is free"), but something that you hire a technician to come and install. The copies that technicians install, of course, are pirated.

    Some time ago a columnist for PC World Egypt (yes, there is such a thing) wrote that he had seen more licensed software CD-ROMs hanging from the rear-view mirrors of taxicabs than in offices. It's not too hard to see why this is the case: a 25-client license copy of Small Business Server cost my office $2500, which is about the same as Egypt's annual per capita GDP. Not the per capita disposable income -- the per capita GDP.

    In short, while I think there are many benefits Linux can offer developing countries, the price argument probably isn't likely to pull much weight.

    -

  • One of the major distros (Mandrake/RedHat/Storm), or some other org/group, do something like:

    Accept donations to create/send out dozens of CDs of the latest versions of the various distros to universities/business IT departments worldwide, or if some "White Knight" has the resources, send 'em out for free;

    Possibly work with one of the "PC Recyclers" that test, rehab, send discarded/obsolete western PCs to third world countries, and have them install Linux.

    This would be a great intro to freedom for many of the global populace.

  • Right on, AC! You understand my point. Except, I would have said that a black American is simply an American, but you took it one step further.

    Unfortunately, Eladio McCormick (this is not ad hominem) is in the dark -- s/he seems not be from the US, so I'll excuse his/her ignorance. The media constantly throws around the term "African American" as if it were a given that all AAs were black. In most polls and standardized tests in school, you must answer the Race question by answering "white" OR "AA", as if a person can't be both. I make it a point never to use the AA term because it makes a foolish assumption.

  • Speaking as another South African.

    My experience is slightly different but comes from another perspective. I'm am not a student in a small town but run my own Unix/Linux consulting company in Johannesburg.

    I will comment on the points you are making:

    Availability - I found Linux to be rather easily available. The corner computer store near my house has a copy of Red hat 6.2, "Incredible Connection" sells Red Hat, and Corel. If you can't find a distribution at a local shop you can always go to http://linuxwarehouse.co.za and mail order. You won't have creditcard problems because they don't even accept them.

    Attractiveness - Yes the CD you get from the ISP won't help you much. I found the tech support at MWEB/iafrica slightly cluesless. But after convincing them that talking you through the CD procedure won't help they are quite competent in giving you the information that you need to set up a connection with a non Microsoft OS.

    The atractiveness really lies in what you want to do:

    If you heard from you buddies that having a computer is cool to play games on you are a lost cause anyway.

    If you want to do real work you tend to be more careful in your choices and Linux becomes really attractive when you find out that you Can Save up to R10 000 on Software and still do the same but only better.

    Corporate acceptance - Convince them with money and reliability. It works for me.

    Publicity - I suppose we read different magazines (not that I read too many). Linux was making quite a few headlines as a real alternative in at least one of the local weekly magazines.

    Support - Guess what? On at least one distrubution I saw locally, free/discounted courses were offered by a local company. It is really not difficult finding Linux support in South Africa.
    Support from your buddy that had his computer six months longer than you is maybe free (as in beer), but you will get what you pay for. If you are really serious about support you are going to pay for it whether it is for Linux or for Microsoft.

    The real world in South Africa are very aware of Linux and many big companies do use it. Some prefer using commercial Unix offerings but that is normally determined by the hardware they bought or the specialized software they are running.

  • >I would love to hear from other who might be interested in helping.

    I am very interested. At the moment I'm in the process of writing a paper on the topic. Please get in contact.

  • The following is satire, but is not far from the truth.

    The story selection process is fairly simple: the perl scripts scan the contents and go to the hyperlinks. The article must contain one of the following words or phrases (more than one gives a story a better chance): Linux, AMD, SuSE, RedHat, They Might Be Giants, BSD, Apache, DeCSS, MP3, Kevin Mitnick, Apple, CueCat, Dreamcast, ISO, RIAA, MPAA, Quake, Java, Sun Microsystems,

    or the following portrayed in the negative:
    Microsoft, Windows, Intel.

    All stories not meeting this criterion are thrown out.

    The stories which pass the perl script are then whisked away to one of the editors, which do the hard task of actually reading the page while sipping a Samuel Adams in the "include beer,h" beer glass (frosted only on the outside, damnit!). References to any major GNU figures boost the stories chances; bribery from the submitters also helps.

    How else do you think that damn Linux in Africa story could've passed through?


  • "Poor Africans" ? For God's sake, what century are you in? Do you really see Africans as helpless victims sitting there and being spoonfed by kind missionaries? I know you'll find this hard to believe but some Africans have got as far as using computers, setting up websites and ISPs etc.

    You forgot Mountain SMS, one of the biggest SMS gateways in the world, a South African company, and Dimension Data (disclaimer: my employer's parent).

  • wow, i went to the new-economy bullshit generator and came away with... a business plan! I'm gonna "harness 24/7 markets". No, really.

    It beats "monetizing transparent eyeballs" which was my first click...

  • "Remember that Star Trek episode...

    Slashdot at it's lowest... reality, as defined by a shoddy TV series.

  • Speaking as another South African

    Availability. It's not easy getting a Linux distro here in South Africa, since your options are to either buy it or download it. If you're looking to buy it, you'll have to get it shipped in from overseas and buy it over the internet, ....

    Support: but here you've got to pretty much figure it out as you go...

    Wrong, try Obsidian Systems [obsidian.co.za] for starters.

  • Unless something commercially viable happens in Africa, they are unlikely to get Internet and Linxu access in the near future

    DOH!

    Says me, currently (and as always) in Africa, on the internet, running a Linux web server at a startup with commercial potential.

    Africa is a continent not a frickin' desert island. There are 40 million people in this country alone (South Africa) & that's not the largest.

  • I would suggest you to get in touch with NGOs involved in Africa (then again, Africa is *huge*). There's also some UN-related agencies working very hard to bring education and tools to developing countries, even in remote/agitated/devastated places (which Africa isn't as a whole, far from it). Most of them are based in Geneva, Switzerland, just in case. Contact them, I'm sure they'd be very happy to get some help. You can probably gather some info at http://www.oneworld.org/ [oneworld.org] and on the United Nation Development Programme on http://www.undp.org/ [undp.org]

    If education was more widespread in Africa, you can be sure there'd be much less wars, epidemics and other catastrophies.

    Some moronic posters here on /. seem to forget the African continent is several orders of magnitude larger than the USofA and carry almost a billion people. If the "Western" world stops using Africa as a dumpster and testing ground for chemicals and actually starts redistributing its [financial and educational] resources, many African countries could start experiencing strong growth in the tech domains, just like South-East Asian countries did.

    Now, tell big companies to give away their old computers so they can be shipped to developing countries... But most of them don't give a shit and most of all don't want to spend a penny for getting rid of their 3 year-old PC junk...

    Good luck,

    /max

  • It was a rhetorical device, but if you want to overanalyze, fine.

    1. I did not claim that every college-educated Slashdot read only O'Reilly books throughout their lives.
    2. I urged them to read a book, an imperative which urges a future action; their prior reading habits never came up.
    3. Your argument is weak.

    --
  • In 1998, Microsoft's anti-piracy manager for Africa, Frederik Jonker, estimated that Kenya loses US$3.5 billion annually to software piracy. Business Software Alliance, a U.S. anti-piracy lobby, estimates piracy levels in South Africa at 49 percent, with the loss to the South African economy estimated at US$94.2 million.

    OK, now, could somebody explain to me exactly how not sending large amounts of money to a foreign software company hurts a nation's ecconomy?
  • geeze, you're condoning apartheid? Remember, 90% of the South African residents are black, so don't be saying this out in the Transvaal.
  • OK, lemme try to elaborate on what I (and a lot of others) said:

    Yes, I am very aware that there are quite a few African countries that are not in such miserable shape. S. Africa is the first that comes to mind, followed by places like Egypt, Ghana and Morocco. But how much help do these countries need for IT? I'm sure the Egyptians don't have the access to reliable broadband that would be ideal, but it is pretty stable and moving along at a decent pace. Rushing off to help countries that are already making decent progress is like helping the little old lady that's already made it more than 1/2 way accross the street; noble but not really necessary.

    I strongly believe that helping people in dire need of assistance is far more important than helping those who just need a small boost to get their living standards up to Western levels.

  • Africa Online [africaonline.com] provides decent service to a number of countries in Africa, and many countries have a number of indigenous ISPs. Obviously penetration is spotty when you get outside the cities and affordable broadband is out of the question in most places, but access is available.

    And there are other ways to distribute Linux. If one university in Cote d'Ivoire has a good enough connection to download the latest distribution of Debian, they can burn copies for as many people as are interested. (And in the case of Debian, they'll only have to download a new distribution every two years or so.)

    -

  • (if (drunk? moderator)
    (moderate '(+1: Funny))
    (moderate '(+1: Insightful)))

    Should't that be (if (drunkp (moderator))....

  • Issues of copyright, intellectual property and monopoly are vital to developing countries. Many of the conventions and rules that govern First World trade actively discriminate against the citizens of Third World nations.

    One example is the way Pharmaceutical companies send researchers to talk to local healers, isolate the active ingredients from the herbs they use, patent the result and claim it as their own. Another is the efforts of Western Agri-business to get African farming addicted to hi-tech machinery and expensive fertilisers which their own economies can't supply. It isn't a huge leap from there to issues of software copyright and - oddly enough - many Africans are capable of making it.

    I work for an Overseas Development Agency. Our African partner organisations campaign extensively on issues of trade, economic and international law (which may come as a surprise to the many contributers here who seem to think they should all be too hungry to understand or care). Paying for technology is an issue they understand all too well.

    Some of the posters here have their bigoted heads so far up their own arses I'm surprised they can still breathe.

  • Linux is a great equalizer for African Science/Ed (Score:4)

    by fils ( 88044 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @02:00PM (#758814) Homepage

    I have actually taught several classes on Linux and its use in science and education in Africa. Working with ICTP in Trieste Italy, we have helped to set up wireless networks, servers and computer labs using linux.

    In both west and east Africa there is a huge amount of interest in the use of Linux to support distance education and distance science efforts. The will is there and we are trying to help them through our Collaborium effort (www.collaborium.org [collaborium.org]) to give them the technical support and guidence that is hard to get in Africa. (plus an email to web gateway service)

    The feeling of isolation from the day to day news, patches and other information we can obtain in only a few seconds is one of the biggest issues. This is where the email to web gateway helps so much.

    Another is that once trained in computers, business snatch up poeple from the labs and universities very fast because they can pay so much more (don't even mention the pre-university situation).

    Wireless is all over in Africa due to the extreamly poor wired telecomm infrastructure. So working with them to get them experience in that area is extreamly important.

    Working with these people in Africa is extreamly rewarding and I would love to hear from other who might be interested in helping.

  • When John Perry Barlow toured Africa a couple of years ago, he showed a nomad tribesman the Internet from his laptop. Immediately the guy realised he could market his wares (rock salt and animal skins) to anyone in the world using this technology.

    Nonono... If he *really* got it, he'd want to write up a business plan for selling rock salt and animal skins on the Internet and then get rich off of venture capital.

    Seriously, though, would selling rock salt like that be competitive? It seems that there'd be tremendous effort in mining the salt and dragging it to somewhere that you can ship it from. Sounds like the sort of thing that a company with a technological advantage (i.e. infrastructure for moving rock salt around, nearby fleet of trucks for shipping, etc.) would win out on.

    However, to be fair, I do think he was on to something with the idea of selling the animals skins. Animal skins are a lower availability item, and unless they're being raised in captivity, still require the same human effort of manually hunting down an animal. Furthermore, unlike rock salt, you can have a substanial amount of value contained in a moderate amount of weight. So I think there's definite potential there.

    But mainly I felt I had to chime in on the rock salt issue. It seems that no one is immune from the "if we sell it over the Internet, it must be profitable" mentality. However, IANAMBA so take my words with a grain of (rock) salt.

  • We also need to realize that "economic development" is not the panacea for all problems, and that we don't need to push it on everybody like a corner drug seller. Lots of problems are cultural and internal. No amount of money or food will solve them, and we just need to help foster a environment friendly to resolving these problems without sticking our nose in. "Progress", manifest destiny, to some intangible yet glorious and definite end is a peculiarly Christian and European idea. Ancient civilizations existed in perfect happiness and harmony without what we would today call "progress". Yes, on a global scale economy certainly plays a large role...we just need to realize that to helping people really means helping them help themselves, not forcing them to institute solutions to problems they don't. Open Source is an attractive proposition because it is both money-free and Free in the sense that communities and governments can customize it to their own ends...so I guess I agree that Open Source is a good compromise between people who think Palm Pilots will solve everybody's problems, and those who think that participating in technology is mutually exclusive with helping real people.
  • When John Perry Barlow toured Africa a couple of years ago, he showed a nomad tribesman the Internet from his laptop. Immediately the guy realised he could market his wares (rock salt and animal skins) to anyone in the world using this technology.

    I hope John Perry Barlow explained him that spamming is not the way to sell his wares.
    __
  • Riddle for liberals (US): Since you define "African American" == "black", what do you call an African American who is white?

    First of all, you mean "African USian"; America is a landmass occupied by over 30 countries, only one of which is the US.

    Now, it is trivial to see that "African USian" does not cover the same ground as "black". Take a randomly picked Haitian. She's not a USian, yet she's black. Thus, your equation is falsified.

    So your whole "riddle" departs from an obviously false assumption, which you impute upon "liberals". The fact that liberals are an easy target, but yet you need to revert to ad hominem to bash them, does not reflect very well on your intelligence.

  • All this time I thought Africa's biggest problems were mass starvation, AIDS, and civil war! Good to know that they've gotten all that taken care of and now they just have to deal with developing stable web servers.

    All this time I though the US' biggest problems were huge income disparities, horrible health care, violent crime, a growing prison-industrial complex, destruction of natural resource and corporate rulership! Good to know that they've gotten all that taken care of and now they just have to deal with developing stable web servers.

    There is a relevant quote from the New Testament about seeing stuff that's gotten in other's eyes but not in yours, but I don't know it in English. Anyway, the point is that your (implicit, sarcastically expressed) argument can be applied to the US (which I presume is your country. If it isn't, my most profound excuses.)

  • I of course meant the Kalahari desert. My bad.
  • Nope, I didn't do the work because I got a better offer (money wise) from Switzerland at that time, but a college of mine went there and is still installing as far as I know.
  • naa most wars are about money or power. religion used to be the cover story is all. even stuff like the crucades was more about power and the pope giving bored warlords something to do instead of fight each other.
  • Hey! You're the guy who buys bullshit wholesale, we can see that. But that doesn't give you the right to dump it here.

    Yes, I admit that I've been sucked into a world where people care about things other than money. It's my peculiar weakness to believe that Good is better than Evil. Honestly, I don't know what came over me. You waved the smelling salts under my nose, and now I see how foolish I was.

    You can't talk about Rights in the same breath as you're calling Goodness and Justice bullshit. I don't care how cynical and relativist you are. You wouldn't have any rights at all if someone hadn't shed their blood for you. Were they just pompous and self-important? Are you glib about the people that died for your freedom? What do you value? What is important to you? Don't just say something is bullshit without saying what the Truth is. What's your side of the story, eh? Riding on everyone else's coattails while you snicker at their struggle. How many times did your mommy and daddy bail you out? How many times did you let somebody else do your work for you?

    I think it's past your bedtime.

  • "You can thump on your copy of Linux Kernel Hacking all you want..."

    More like "your gilded hardcover copy of Linux Kernel Hacking." Some people just never learn. Linux is not the answer to world famine. Would you give a sepulcrally famished Ethiopian a stinking computer with Linux? He'd die of starvation while trying to get it to boot!

  • Actually, if you look back on history, most religious wars were not corellated to anything truely Biblically based. The closest would be the Crusades, but that was not biblically based. That was an event more related to the Catholic church, and not even remotely Biblical in foundation. The catholics try and cover up for that too, claiming it was Christianity...

    -------
    CAIMLAS

  • Anyone realize that 2/3rds of that comment was devoted to how great Carnage4Life is! I agree, to think that there are not geeks in Africa is a bit ignorant but common lets have some modesty old chap.
  • You forgot corruption- There's plenty of resoureces in africa, only in the wrong hands.

  • "But they need food, water, etc." (Score:5)

    by Elvis Maximus ( 193433 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @02:21PM (#758833) Homepage

    A lot of the posts so far (and whenever the subject of IT in developing countries comes up) are in the "how can we talk about IT when people are starving/at war/sick -- give them food/peacekeepers/medicine, not Linux" vein. Many of these are trolls, some are not.

    Africa is not monolithic, but it's certainly true that there are basic and pressing problems in many parts of Africa. What is guaranteed not to solve those problems in the medium- to long-term is food and medical aid. In many cases such aid is necessary, but it is never sufficient. The roots of the problems need to be addressed, and the real roots of the problems are almost always economic. The long term answer can only be economic development, and in the early 21st century, IT has to be an important element of economic development.

    Open source software has the potential to be a boon for IT in the developing world. Good development is about empowering people to solve their own problems, and so is open source. With open source, things like language localization are no longer the exclusive province of far-off Western software developers unconcerned with suboptimal markets -- local programmers can do it themselves. There are now Linux distributions aimed at the Thai and Russian/Ukranian markets, and I know there is an Arabic localization project going on now.

    No, Linux is not going to feed a starving Somali kid today. But a bag of surplus Iowa wheat is not going to feed him tomorrow.

    -

  • I was about to tell him that they also hate the Finnish, Czech, and other eurogeeks out there, but vulgarly put, he's right.
  • Heh, "the US is where girls are uglier", huh?
    What about U.S. girls of Brazilian descent? Or Venezuelan descent?

    I don't know how good they would look like, and I just could not guess. But based on the people I've seen on the city streets, on buildings et cetera, I have concluded that. I don't know what makes women from that place more attractive than that other place, but I know, when I see them, which ones are most attractive.

    Anyway, I think you should come to Brazil and... er... taste it for yourself :P (really, I doubt you'll ever disagree when you come here)

    Also, thanks for pointing out to me, that I am unaware of the street kids of Sao Paulo, or the bastard children of Bucharest, Romania.

    That's just not what I've been talking about when I mentioned geography. It's not a matter of 'knowing about bastard children of Bucarest'. It's a matter of understanding the world aroung you, the geopolitics (which is one of the most prominent topics of geography), how are the social interactions made and so on.

    To the rest of the world, it always look like the USians have a very short-sighted vision of the world, and it looks too that they think their country 'is' the world somehow. You can quickly perceive this reading informal culture, like comics, e.g., Marvel or DC, where 80% of the heroes and villains are from the U.S., like if the rest of the world were just... guests on earth, I guess.

    I bet you would say 'Oh, but we KNOW that we are not the world', but knowing is different from perceiving; your own culture lure you into subconsciouly thinking that, after that much pervasion -- a lie said a thousand times, for you, ceases to be a lie.


    Patola (Cláudio Sampaio) - Solvo IT
    IBM CATE
    SAIR GNU/Linux Certified

  • No, I don't live in Africa. I live in South America.

    But, anyway, even not ever been in Africa, I have some stuff to say. People from some developed countries (mainly from the USA, where history and geography in schools aren't good -- e.g, they abandoned all marxist avalysis of history even it being the most enlightening analysis) do not have a clear picture of life in developing countries.

    Most times, they don't bother thinking very much about i, really. They don't want to think about misery. And so, they generalize certain things and stick to the cartoonesque version on others: people living in huts in the top of trees, unplugged citizens, dirty stone streets and roads, low tech, and so on.

    Ok, low money can lead to some of these things. But the problem with most developing nations is not simply the lack of money - but the distribution of it. In fact, countries like Brazil (my country) and the middle-eastern petroleum countries are rich or very rich. But they have large quantities of people who are starving or in bad economic situations.

    When economy is a necessity, they have the need to stick to what is less expensive, like Linux. But it does not mean that we don't have technology. There are a lot of people from the middle- or higher classes which use computers.

    In Brasil, we have at last a major Linux software company: Conectiva. It provides a very good redhat-based distribution and support for linux.

    That said, I hope I don't find any more posts saying "FUD" (hehehe) about developing countries. Hey, we can live well here too!!! And you betcha, the girls here are a lot more beautiful than most of the countries I've been to (with the exception of Venezuela. And the US is where the girls are uglier!).


    Patola (Cláudio Sampaio) - Solvo IT
    IBM CATE
    SAIR GNU/Linux Certified

  • > I just wish many Americans would realise that US methods of doing things don't often work here. What does work is a willingness to exchange information and work together - something the Internet has been really brilliant at doing.

    Which explains why so many American corporations are so damn paranoid about the internet.

    --

  • Standard answers to the usual mindless replies... (Score:5)

    by mav[LAG] ( 31387 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @02:23PM (#758852)
    #1: Africans need running water, housing etc before worry about Linux

    Answer: It's very hard to roll out water/housing/food projects without a proper communications infrastructure. Basic computer training goes a long way towards ensuring people are skilled anough to help themselves in this regard. The precedents are there to show that better communications and computer literacy are good for economic growth and living standards.

    #2: What do Africans know about Linux anyway?

    Answer: More than you might think. I personally know people on this continent who:

    • have commit access to the BSD kernel
    • have written drivers for the linux kernel
    • are Linux assembly programmers
    • have gone to Europe and USA to run multi-million dollar companies there.
    • train Cisco experts from the US on networks here because they feature topology and layout you can't study anywhere else

    If the US is so well off, how come it keeps poaching skills from countries like South Africa all the time? The main problem is non-Africans tend to lump together the whole big land mass into one. When I was in the US last, friends asked me whether the land invasions in Zimbabwe were a cause for worry. I asked them in reply whether Quebec wanting to go its own way was a cause for worry. "Ah but that's a different country," they said. Bingo.

    #3: Africans don't get it
    Answer: Some of them get it immediately. When John Perry Barlow toured Africa a couple of years ago, he showed a nomad tribesman the Internet from his laptop. Immediately the guy realised he could market his wares (rock salt and animal skins) to anyone in the world using this technology. This from somone who has probably never left his home village in the middle of the Sahara.

    #4: Price is not really the factor
    Answer: Price is THE factor on this continent. As some posters have already pointed out, your typical MS Office bundle can be worth a year's salary. More important is that many people just can't afford the constant cycle of upgrades to hardware that new software releases demand. Linux is free - tough to beat.

    I am an African, linux programmer and user since 1993. I wrote about free software for a major national newspaper in 1994 - long before it became trendy to do so. I've travelled - quite extensively in the US. As a country I love it. I just wish many Americans would realise that US methods of doing things don't often work here. What does work is a willingness to exchange information and work together - something the Internet has been really brilliant at doing.

  • Re:Why do Africans need Linux? (Score:3)

    by itsbruce ( 229840 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @02:23PM (#758853)
    Ever bothered to actually notice how Africa is working today? None of its countries are highly succesful, industrialized, technologically advanced nations like the U.S
    No, they are developing countries. This makes technological issues very relevant.
    Let's be rational here.
    As opposed to being totally bloody patronising, you mean?
    Instead of, God forbid, sending these poor Africans the food, Bibles, medical supplies, and contraception they need
    "Poor Africans" ? For God's sake, what century are you in? Do you really see Africans as helpless victims sitting there and being spoonfed by kind missionaries? I know you'll find this hard to believe but some Africans have got as far as using computers, setting up websites and ISPs etc.

    mbendi.co.za [mbendi.co.za]

    iafrica.com [iafrica.com]

    assuming of course the people can stop killing each other, reproducing like rabbits every minute, and actually grow their own food
    Oh, I'm sorry, you are a mindless bigot.
    You expect an illiterate tribal savage to learn how to compile a colonel
    Not only do I know Africans quite capable of this, I know ones who can spell it, too.
    Sorry to sound so harsh, but the truth hurts.
    How would you know? You don't have the slightest chance of bumping into it.
  • If trademarks have to be vigorously defended lest they be invalidated can't the same be said of all intellectual property. Can I argue that since MS does not defend it's intellectual property in africa, asia etc that they don't care about it and in fact have abandoned it?

    Where is the fairness in charging one set of people while letting millions of other people use it for free. Throw a couple of africans, chinese, or koreans in jail for a change and see how they react. Maybe we in America are just plain stupid to pay for stuff other people are getting for free. What would happen if we did the same thing. Really now realisticly speaking how many people could they jail if there was massive pirating like there is in china.

    A Dick and a Bush .. You know somebody's gonna get screwed.

  • Re:Why in the hell... (Score:3)

    by danny ( 2658 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @02:27PM (#758855) Homepage
    For some responses to this kind of thing, see my free software and aid/development site [danny.oz.au]. In particular the (under development) FAQ [danny.oz.au] and a campaign proposal [danny.oz.au].

    Danny.

  • An African's Perspective... (Score:5)

    by Carnage4Life ( 106069 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @03:30PM (#758863) Homepage Journal
    Maybe because there aren't any geeks in Africa?

    This is probably one of the stupidest things I have ever read on slashdot.

    I am African, lived there most of my life and was a geek there and am a geek here and will be a geek when I go back. I know 9 programming/scripting languages, I'm familiar with 4 RDBMS systems (Oracle, SQL server, DB2, Interbase), I'm into distributed computing (Java-RMI and CORBA), if I was graduating from college today I'd do so with highest honors, I am an avid Chinese history buff, I played D and D as a kid (in Africa), I owned an Amiga as a kid, I TA two different programming classes(C and Java), and have already turned down several employment opportunities from Fortune 500 companies because they didn't feel right. In all honesty, I almost flunked out of high school in Africa and most of my friends were a lot more geeky than I was, IMHO I'm nowhere near as smart or geeky as a lot of the people I went to school with, who I am in constant contact with via email and instant messenger (didn't think they had that in Africa huh?).

    Anyway as for the article, Linux being free as in beer doesn't mean jackshit. Copyright laws are not enforced in most third world nations. I've seen pirated CDs for Windows NT SP 4, Starcraft, Adobe Photoshop, Oracle 8, Microsoft Office, Visual Studio, etc. for $5 to $10. I also saw a lot more people using Windows than *nix, in fact very few people even knew what *nix systems were while everyone knew Windows.

  • "Open Source, Closed Minds" (Score:5)

    by jerdenn ( 86993 ) <jerdenn@dennany.org> on Saturday September 23, 2000 @03:32PM (#758864)
    *sigh*

    "Open Source, Closed Minds" - This phrase never meant to much to me, until now. After all, I considered Geeks as part of the 'enlightened'. We are the Digeratti - those blessed with an understanding of all that is digital. It is a shift so fundamental that it threatens the foundation of current society and the its' artificial constructs of Intellectual Property. Geeks "get it".

    Or so I thought.

    And then, I was introduced to slashdot, and I realized that as a group, we are as any other. We cling to what is close to us, and eschew that which is not. The great Soundcard conspiracy? [slashdot.org] Very important... Our Geek Brethren in another continent? [slashdot.org] Not.

    Some points that particularly bother me in this whole discussion:

    To my fellow americans - there is indeed an entire world outside of our borders. Spend some time reading about it. Even better, use some of those IT mega-bucks and visit it. It is an eye-opening experience, if you allow it to be so.

    To the world - Africa is not a country, but a continent. One can no more make a generalization about this continent and its' societal structures than any other, yet we all seem to assume that the entire of Africa is inhabited by a geneologically and ideologically homogeneous people. This is anything but the case.

    To the slashdotteri - Please keep your minds open not just to source, but to ideas. What is source, but the communication of ideas - from human to human, and human to machine.

    -jerdenn

  • I'd think affording the $1000 computer would be the problem - a free OS would be nice, but without a computer it's not much good!
  • No, it's scheme - I'm guess Dylan is also a variant of Lisp, like Scheme?
  • I guess avoiding the Microsoft tax by using Linux is a minor issue, when you're facing the prospect of a $10,000 per patient per year Glaxo-Welcome tax for 20% of your population.

    What are you going to use to avoid that? Bill Clinton has threatened to unleash the seven plagues of Egypt on South-Africa, if they use patent-infringing alternatives.

    At least 45 million Africans are slated to die over the next 5 years for Glaxo-Welcome's intellectual property patent on AZT.

  • Real info on telecomunications in Africa. (Score:4)

    by Eric_Henry ( 121003 ) on Saturday September 23, 2000 @02:44PM (#758893)

    I hate to interupt the bigots, trolls, and everyone else convinced that every African is a starving disease ridden child, with something usefull, but here's a little info on the state of the telecomunications network in Africa.

    Internet Connectivity for Africa [apc.org]

    Connectivity Data for Africa's Information Infrastructure [apc.org]

    Resourcery's African Telecom Links [resourcery.com]

    The Acacia Initiative [www.idrc.ca]

    Eric Henry

    "When a man tells you that he got rich through hard work, ask him whose."- Don Marquis

  • I did some work in Africa this Summer for 2 months and went to a few banks for work related stuff and one bank in particular was using Red Hat. The used it instead of the costlier UNIX variants that companies like IBM, HP, etc. sell.
  • Here's another use for those old 486's and pentium 75's other than Yet Another Firewall: send them to a charity which can get them to a third-world country! Install Linux, and include the install media, since bandwidth for downloads can be expensive. Africa is one place where this kind of thing could make a big difference, but there are also some big chunks of Asia, South America and the Carribean where some old hardware and some help could go a very long way.

    Why Linux, by the way (other than advocacy)? After all, so many posters have already pointed out that Windows is free there too. Everyone already knows how to run Windows, so there would be less training required. There are two very practical reasons:
    First,the charity would need to keep on the right side of the law back here, where it gets its goods.
    Second, there is little training required (or even possible) with Windows. CTRL-ALT-DELETE, then reinstall, is most of the technical know-how you need to M$ successfully. Not exactly a great learning system for folks whom you want to go on and build infrastructure.

    So: does anyone know of such a charity? One that could get the hardware into the hands of folks who could use it, and give some training, and would absolutely insist on the use of libre software to avoid lisensing issues?
  • How is expressing my opinion on this topic flamebait? Interesting...
  • ...neglects the fact that open source empowers people in developing countries to solve their own specific problems.

    All this time I thought Africa's biggest problems were mass starvation, AIDS, and civil war! Good to know that they've gotten all that taken care of and now they just have to deal with developing stable web servers.

  • First of all, neither of the most common two web browsers are free as in free speech

    Is Mozilla MPL a "free as in free speech" license? Is GNU GPL? The latest version of the #2 browser [mozilla.org] (Netscape Communicator) is now mostly MPL with a growing number of dual-licensed MPL/GPL modules.


    <O
    ( \
    XGNOME vs. KDE: the game! [8m.com]

  • you know (Score:3)

    by nomadic ( 141991 ) <nomadicworld@@@gmail...com> on Saturday September 23, 2000 @04:05PM (#758917) Homepage
    I don't expect that much from slashdot in terms of non-technical understanding among it's readers, but I think this is a new low. Instead of basing your opinions of an entire freaking continent on I don't know, sitcoms or MTV videos or wherever you get your erroneous views of the world, why don't you try reading a book? And I don't mean one from O'Reilly.
    --
  • Nice toutch to mention sending them food, medicine and bibles. Those bibles are really tasty :)

    Did you know that nearly every war on this planet had some religous background were everybody instantly forgot about not killing someone else but started killing everyone they saw that did not have the exact same religion as they had? And here you go start a few wars again by sending them even more religious stuff to fight about.

    Jeroen

  • I wouldn't say that.

    Around a year ago I got approached by a company to help installing a Telephone / Computer Network somewhere in Africa. I don't remember the name of the company anymore but I know they operate out of Amsterdam and apparantly SEE business there.

    Yes, you won't see that in bushes, but in the bigger cities it is slowly coming around.

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