Copying A DVD To A CD? 311
Kreed wrote to us about an article on Tom's Hardware that details the process of compressing the content of DVDs down to CD length. Pretty cool compression.
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
Copying a DVD To A CD?
Related Links Top of the: day, week, month.
Neutrinos have bad breadth.
Good for Tom. (Score:4)
Yeah.. let's see them try to silence Tom
Other great techniques (Score:5)
I like MPEG-4... (Score:4)
Oh boy... (Score:3)
It *is* very cool, and arguably fair use, but unfortunately, if the media ever really gets wind of this, we'll see the entire stupid mp3 war over 'mp4', only ten times worse.
Ok, I suppose it's unavoidable, but if you thought all the mp3 stuff we've heard about for the past few years was stupid, well, this will be ten times stupider with the MPAA backing it.
Also, I suppose no one will mention Microsoft in this, even though everyone traffics in '.asf' files. (Just like everyone talks about Napster, even though many college students share their hard drives, and use Windows File Sharing as their mp3-pirating platform...) Of course, the entire format/medium issue is incredibly stupid; it's just a tool. But rational argument hasn't stopped these people so far...
---
pb Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate [ncsu.edu].
Given how cheap DVD drives are, does this matter? (Score:4)
So who would really use this?
Re:Other great techniques (Score:2)
--
FlaskMPEG + DeCSS (Score:3)
The authors of FlasKMPEG have come across a program called 'FlasKMPEG DeCSS'.
We want to express very clearly that such program or any other derived from the original is no way related with the official 'FlasKMPEG' project in any way. FlasKMPEG sources are available under the GPL license and it's totally out of our responsibility the legal implications caused by the modifications or variations from other developers performed over our code. The original FlasKMPEG can't and won't read files from encrypted DVDs, and even then, copyrighted material should not be processed with FlasKMPEG.
Re:Oh boy... (Score:3)
Think of it as a prelude to the Singularity.
-----------------------------
Legal troubles in the future? (Score:2)
Anyone?
Oh, well, they can escape with this car [slashdot.org] and keep serving their site
Err..remind me why this is news? (Score:2)
Re:Inevitable DeCSS parallel (Score:2)
Re:Given how cheap DVD drives are, does this matte (Score:2)
You do not Decss to pirate (Score:2)
Re:is decss used? (Score:2)
Re:Uhhh aren't DVDs already compressed? (Score:2)
But the technology mentioned isn't new - MPEG4 has been around for a while in the form of Divx:-). But this is the first review I've seen from a major site like Tom's.
Can we PLEASE get a new extension? (Score:4)
PS - I'm looking at you Microsoft. Quit naming a billion files ".DOC" when not single version is intercompatible.
Bleah! The one thing I miss from the Macintosh is the fact that every file had a four byte header that identified the type of file so that this whole extension mess was unnecessary.
- JoeShmoe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:5)
- Warning:
This is kinda like selling guns unrestricted and saying "please don't shoot anyone, cuz that would be against the law". Oh wait, you guys already do that.The author declines any responsability from the use of this program. This software can not be used with copyrighted material because doing so, would infringe many laws all around the world.
The author doesn't intend to promote piracy by any means, and the scope of the application is limited to video processing tasks with home made digital video material.
Joke, okay. Calm down and don't flame.
But seriously, I want the ability to back up my DVDs, and play them back on machines without DVD drives, in exactly the same way that I can backup audio CDs to tape, and play them in my car.
I don't see anything in the least bit illegal about FlaskMPEG, but I'm sure that the MPAA lawyers will be doing their best to take a different view on that.
I wonder whether this could have any impact on the DeCSS situation? Surely, it would be better to let people view DVDs unrestricted under Linux, rather than be a pain in our ass and encourage us to start backing our DVDs up on CD.
cheers,
G
Think broadcasting. (Score:2)
Think beyond the the storage media for a second: How about watching movies over a streaming broadband connection? The ability to archive film and video with unparalleled efficiency?It's time[jonkatz]to take the first tentative steps towards decommodifying video, just as mp3s have given us the chance to easily sample music we may never have otherwise heard.[/jonkatz] Yeah, a lot of people will get pissed off, and someone will get sued, but the possibilities are endless.
I've Tried It: (Score:5)
Back when DivX;-) first appeared, I took a DVD, a handful of programs, and a lot of spare time to see what I could come up with. Here are my results:
But it's not that easy, either. If you're a CS major, you should be able to do it in three or four hours. If you're an average Joe, good luck. You'll need it. MPAA, your day is coming, but it's not here yet. (See below.)
No kidding here, guys. On a PIII 350mghz, playback was choppy. Tom here used an 800mghz Thunderbird. You probably need around that to get decent playback.
It took, on my aforementioned PIII, about seven hours to encode half an hour of Wallace and Gromit. Even with a smokin' computer, you'll probably need to let it run for a while.
It's not perfect, guys. Especially in scenes with lots of movement of colours (like an explosion), you get some fuzzies. It's about the quality difference from mp3 from cd, though, I'd say. I certainly wouldn't mind watching a movie in DivX;-) format, but it's no home theatre.
DeCSS makes it easy to rip a movie quickly, but other programs exist that are just as simple. I've heard rumours of one that brute-forces the key to the DVD--anybody know about this one? At any rate, I don't think it can be argued that DeCSS's even main purpose is for this sort of thing. It's obvious that DeCSS is used more often for some easy-listening music and t-shirt wear than for piracy.
Conclusion:
MPAA, your day is coming. But take note that it's because of DivX;-), just like the RIAA's problems are mp3 (not RealJukebox). As for DeCSS? You're barking up the wrong tree with that one. Of course, if you're worried about people disabling region codes and/or watching their DVDs on their Linux machines, DeCSS is your man.
Dlugar, bearer of the spork
Fractals and Wavelets and FFTs, oh my! (Score:5)
I mean, if you do the following, you'll get great encoding, but it is EXPENSIVE.
step 1: drop the color space resolution in half, the eye can't see it. (this is the first step in JPEGs)
step 2: Resample the image in time to 30fps (this is ideal)
step 3: resample the image in space to a hexagonal, instead of a rectangular grid, this spreads the corner distance problem.
step 4: resample at half the luminance resolution, compress, but cycle the resampling offset in time. Persistance of vision reconstructs the proper luminance map.
step 5: search the (much reduced by this point) 3d matrix for domain/range mapings (this is the fractal step, it takes much processor power) You probably need to select smallish block sizes for this in time, or it gets much harder. Of course, the bigger the chunk you encode at a time, the better the encoding ratio.
and to view it, just reverse steps 5 and 3.
Its kind of like strong AI, its easy to say 'search for domain/range mappings', and it's easy to write code to do it. It just takes more memory and processor time than we have available to give useful results.
-- Crutcher --
#include <disclaimer.h>
Re:Would this get around DECSS? (Score:2)
The MPAA and DVDCCA have assumed that people will want to make perfect copies of DVDs. To do that you need to decode the DVD (using DeCSS, for example), and burn it onto something (i.e. you need a DVD burner and a big hard drive). MPEG4 invalidates that assumption because people are willing to trade a small drop in quality for a much more managable file size. Since you're re-encoding the video you don't need DeCSS - any DVD player will do because you can capture the data after the MPEG2 decoding (e.g. with a hacked video driver).
This really highlights a flaw in the CSS system - it only protects the MPEG2 signal. If you don't need a bit perfect MPEG2 copy it's worthless as a protection scheme.
Re:Other great techniques (Score:4)
You know it's time to get some sleep when you read that `AOL porno discs'. I thought perhaps that was one of the things AOL sent people when they sign up so that when they get busy signals they can use the CD instead...
Re:Uhhh aren't DVDs already compressed? (Score:2)
Not that good compression (Score:2)
Warning bells:
- 11 times better compression - this sounds too good to be true.
- NTSC DVDs are 640x480, PAL DVDs are 720x576 but those comparison pictures aren't even 640x480
- some of the "Resizing Quality Options" (which are interpolation algorithms) are said to "causes a relatively big data stream".
While I don't know the specifics of the mpeg4 format (and the article doesn't mention any technical detail, so don't flame me, correct me), I'm guessing mpeg4 uses wavelets.Wavelet compression is potentially(1) the best image compression I know of (ignoring fractal here for now). I was under the impression it offers about a 20% gain over DCT etc, not a 1000% gain.
Anyway, the thing with many forms of wavelet compression is that their result is resolution independent - you can decompress them to any resolution you like, and if the detail isn't there then it will just look a bit blurry. I believe this is what's happening here. While the video stream might be decoding to a NTSC res image, it probably has no more detail than a 320x240 image that has been scaled up in Photoshop.
I doubt the object compression mentioned in the article is any use for a video stream as the video compression program doesn't know what is an object and what isn't - it just sees pixels. Sure it can deduce that that bunch of pixels is moving in that direction, but so does mpeg2. Having objects in the scene is more useful for computer generated video where the encoder can be feed object information about the scene (or feed the scene in layers) and not just what the scene looks like.
In summary, looks cool and convenient, but won't have nearly the detail of a DVD. As to DeCSS, well you can probably pull the same stunt with a laserdisc player and a video-in, the image quality might end up slightly worse as noise from the composite video signal/format will throw the compression somewhat, but you still end up with a high quality, indefinitely reproduceable movie on a CD.
1) I said potentially because it's quite a loose term and DCT etc could be considered wavelet compression - whether it's any good depends on what waves you choose and how you implement it.
Re:Inevitable DeCSS parallel (Score:5)
The result is that the MPAA's assertion that the DeCSS case is about piracy is gone. It was never true anyway but now any fool can see it for what it is - a smokescreen. So this actually helps the DeCSS defendants.
Not that new (Score:2)
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is"
Re:FlaskMPEG + DeCSS (Score:4)
However one of the MPAA's arguments to distinguish copying of DVDs from copying of video cassettes was that there would be no degradation of quality since everything was "digital". This degradation was important in allowing fair use copies and the like.
So is a CD copy of a DVD fair use? It's certainly a degraded quality and is conceptually almost identical to taping a music CD to use in the car.
My 2 cents is all I have.
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:2)
Re:Just what we need... (Score:2)
The good ol' compression debate (Score:3)
I would score the difference as a 10 on the "I never had sexual relations with that woman" scale.
The difference in the propaganda and the actual images/sound has been a feature at all the levels of the compression discussion. Most of these disconnects come back to some fundamental misunderstandings about a little thing called "playback fidelity".
Playback Fidelity Recap follows:
As anyone who has ever chased "great sound" will know, half-decent stereo systems start at around $3000 with $1500 of these dollars being spent on the speakers alone. Listening to MP3s on half -decent stereo systems is a painful experience - fortunately outlawed as "cruel and unusual punishment".
But there are (at least) two other forces at work in the world of sound. Firstly, the bald fact that very very few people listen to music on half-decent stereo systems. Secondly, the bald fact that for around 20 years, the people making the music have had access to technologies known collectively (of course) as "compression". This is the process whereby, in post-production, the "raw" recorded sound is "dumbed down" or "compressed" to fit the sound qualities of most people's playback equipment. It is lossy compression - as parts of the sound are "thrown away" to concentrate on the most "noticed" parts.
This 20(odd)year process has resulted in a number of things, including the incredible "bass" that people feel that they get from ghetto blaster sized and priced playback units and (standard) car stereos. Also, people have become accustomed to the "compressed" sound and have actually come to really like it. Try playing these same tracks on half decent stereos (actually, don't) the experience is very different. Examples of extreme compression would include most rap/dance music, Britany Spears et al, etc. etc. Or really any music made for people with limited access to high quality playback.
And so at the playback fidelity that most people experience (PC speakers - $100) MP3s of course sound great. Likewise, at the playback fidelity of television tubes that are tuned for VHS in PAL or NTSC, I bet that DVD video ripped to 750MB looks fine.
Get a monitor quality TV set (you'll probably be able to afford one in a few years) - and suddenly VHS is unwatchable, free-to-air has chunks missing, cable "rips" every half minute or so, and DVD is almost acceptable, but you'll secretly hunger for something more.
I feel that playback fidelity shouldn't be forgotten when claims like "Barely noticible quality loss" are made.
Jezz. (Score:3)
besides that id like to mention that people should be way more exsited about this. people don't seem to relize that in about 2 years the MPAA is going to totally freak out because napster-forvideo will have every freaking movie and video for download.
that and your 2.5ghz computer can record a whole movie to a tiny 700megs on your 2.5 terrabyte drive.
think about it!
-Jon
oh ya, Tom didn't mention that DiVX is the actually Microsoft MPEG v4, just cracked to remove the copyright stuff. how they got hold of it, i can't tell you. also Microsoft and Real seem to have slightly better codecs now, Microsoft Video V7 (why 7? ,marketing) and Real 8, both are REALLY freaking amazing. even better then standard MPEG4, which as someone pointed out is bassicly Quicktime, which uses the sorenson codec. Not that Quicktime isn't da shit, it is.
Re:Can we PLEASE get a new extension? (Score:3)
AVI isn't so much a format as it is a blanket description. Stands for Audio/Video Interleaved.
Given that,
Truth be told there are about a dozen proprietary codecs that you may find in an AVI file.
OK, I'll admit that there's probably a standard header to help your application find the codec. But it's still annoying.
Re:Good for Tom. (Score:2)
Hmm. (Score:2)
It's great that Tom posted it.. but... The ripped-off-from-microsoft-NDA-code reverse-engineered non-open-source badly-named DivX codec is hardly news....
Scientific American on MPEG-4 (Score:2)
Re:hmm (Score:2)
Nobody will dispute that DVD is much higher quality than the mp4 version at 10x smaller size.
THe point is, the full-screen quality of movies converted this way to mp4 is more than tolerable. WAYY better than VCD, wayy better than VHS, just not quite DVD. The audio track is 128kbps mp3 (or something similar in wma), which is also not dolby digital, but quite adequate.
And if you don't like it.. nobody forces you to use it.
BeOS does it best (Score:2)
"What a waste it is to lose one's mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is"
Re: (Score:2)
Re:FlaskMPEG + DeCSS (Score:2)
Keep in mind that 'fair use' simply meant that you could not be prosecuted for making 'fair use' of a copyrighted work. In other words, the act of making copies is not illegal if making those copies falls under fair use.
The DeCSS case is about the DMCA, which is basically unrelated. Remember, 'fair use' never meant that those distributing the works had to make it 'technologically possible' for you to copy things in order to make 'fair use' of it, only that making copies for a 'fair use' purpose was not actionable. The DeCSS case is specifically about the DMCA outlawing making tools that are used to circumvent copy control mechanisms, which DeCSS clearly does.
Whether or not this preserves 'fair use' is largely irrelevant. Do you have a right to copy your DVD? SURE!
Does that make DeCSS legal? Not as long as the DMCA is intact.
An analogy might be... hmm.
Here in Canada, I am allowed to make holes in the piece of plywood I have in my garage.
I am *NOT* allowed to posess the fully automatic ak-47 with armor-piercing bullets that I'm using to make those holes.
Does the fact that I have a right to make holes in my plywood slab make it okay for me to own something that is outlawed by a totally different law? No.
Same thing here.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:2)
I agree with you, that FlaskMPEG is legal. Therefore, shouldn't the MPAA stop fighting DeCSS? MPAA must hate FlaskMPEG even more than DeCSS, but probably can't use the law to stop it.
While they pretend that the DeCSS case is about the copying of DVDs, it is really about limiting their distribution, through the region lock. DeCSS doesn't help people copy DVDs at all. FlaskMPEG totally circumvents all region protection, and makes it easy to copy the resulting mpeg4 CDs. It must be MPAAs worst nightmare come true.
Surely banning DeCSS makes it more likely for people to turn to FlaskMPEG?
If you won't let me watch my DVDs under Linux, I'll just back them up to CDs, and watch these
I hope this makes my post a bit clearer.
G
one word.....DViX (Score:2)
Re:not all it's cracked up to be (Score:2)
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:2)
Re:He calls that "hardly noticeable" !?! (Score:5)
The quality is just not there.
You're right, it isn't a replacement for DVD. It wasn't meant to be. Just like MP3 isn't meant to be a replacement for CDs. It's a great way to compress the file down to be easily transferrable across the internet.
Compressing an 8GB file to 700MB will be lossy, and there's not much you can do about it. However, I'm willing to trade some picture quality for portability. I can burn several CDs with movies and watch them on the road on my DVD-less PC.
Besides, I'm spending $40 a month for this cable modem. At least I'll never have to rent another video.
Re:Can we PLEASE get a new extension? (Score:3)
MPEG-1, MPEG-2, and MPEG-4 all provide standalone header spaces for audio information; however, MP3 audio (what DiVX uses) isn't technically an allowed format in MPEG-4 (Instead it should use MPEG2 audio (whatever layer you want including layer 3); thus the codec itself is one big flawed piece of junk because it in fact *DOES* rely on the AVI header to store type information.
I agree with you that it should get its own file type, but this won't happen until a good open implementation of DiVX comes along that isn't just a hacked MS MPEG4/MP3 knock off. Something that people can start writing compressors and decompressors on their own, maybe?
Heck with all this work being put into DiVX these days I'm constantly amazed that few people seem to realize that in the same time it takes to clone DiVX, they could write a true MPEG-4 implementation that would be every bit as good and more useful in the long run than a hacked codec.
Speaking of MPEG1/L3 (MP3) compression in WAV files, I do have to say that there is actually a very good use for that. I have over 40 GB of MP3 compressed WAV files running broadcast radio stations. The broadcast software we use 1) only supports WAV files and MP3 compressing them (vs. the old MPEG2 compression we used to use) saves me disk space and processor cycles. It also provides me with room to put a TON of meta-information (standard in the format header) in the file that ID3 and even ID3v2 do not provide.
Incidentally, I do have a tool for my MP3 compressed wav's that will directly convert a MP3 to an MP3 compressed WAV and vice-versa by writing the correct format headers and footers onto the MP3 file. But again, something like this could not be done for DiVX as it relies on the AVI format to describe its internals.
~GoRK
total bullshit methodology (Score:2)
Re:Would this get around DECSS? (Score:2)
If I remember, there's a federal law that stipulates you are allowed one [1] backup of any piece of software you own on the basis that it be used to restore/replace the original in the event of its destruction or loss, etceteras. I don't think it specified a change in media, or in the tools necessary to read that data- but it DOES mean that I'm legally allowed to back up any DVDs I might buy.
Not exactly a federal law, IIRC. US Fair Use law (with apologies for those outside the land of the DMCA) doesn't specifically address media-shifting (aka space-shifting). Space-shifting was recognized as a right in federal court, but that's not exactly the same as a law, AFAIK.
Recently, Time Warner and the MPAA has argued that space-shifting no longer applies. They argue that the fact that most computer programs are distributed on durable disks and that hardware is more reliable as taking away the reasons for those earlier federal rulings. They may not have a leg to stand on, but they have the lawyers.
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:2)
-
Well, unless I missed something, you can only use FlaskMPEG to copy non-encrypted DVD's. So if your DVD is CSS-encrypted, you need both FlaskMPEG *and* DeCSS to copy it to a CD-ROM. You cannot do that alone with FlaskMPEG (unless the DVD isn't encrypted).
If you check out FlaskMPEG's website [go.to], there is mention of a program called 'FlasKMPEG DeCSS'. In the same paragraph, it states:-
FlasKMPEG sources are available under the GPL license and it's totally out of our responsibility
...and...
Ah, the joy of GPL - so, you are totally right, but someone has already fixed this issueThe original FlasKMPEG can't and won't read files from encrypted DVDs
This really is a non-issue. Either through use of 'FlaskMPEG DeCSS', or by simply DeCSSing the DVD to HD, then running FlaskMPEG, one person can cut a CD of the DVD. Then anyone with a CD writter can copy it in 5 minutes. This is all about as legal as trading mp3s ;-)
The bottom line, IMO, is that they are better just letting geeks watch DVDs freely under Linux, than encouraging people to start ripping DVDs to CD. But that's their call.
cheers,
G
Time for HDTV (Score:2)
On to Home IMAX!
Re:Jezz. (Score:3)
Re:Great system, not for Regulars users (Score:3)
*cough*BULLSHIT*cough*
if you add "in FlaskMPEG", then you're correct. i routinely do a whole DVD in 8-9 hours on a p3-500. granted, the CPU is spiked at 100% the whole time and i usually don't use the box for much else. but it doesn't take as long as everyone thinks if you use good software. check out the real howto. [fm4.org]
Re:hmm (Score:2)
The person doing the encoding has some choices as to the exact flavor of DiVX
Also, I have noticed on my computer (300 mhz - towards the low end for mpeg4 video) that unless my fullscreen video resolution is an exact mutliple of the video size, there are lots of noticable artifacts from it having to resize the video. Checking the movie resolution before hand and setting screen res accordingly makes a big difference.
In the end, it's certainly not DVD, but it's much better than normal mpeg2 and even VHS (for a good one at least). When you're watching in motion (as opposed to a single frame) and sitting a foot or so away from the screen it looks quite sharp.
Re:General MPEG/DVD question (Score:2)
MPEG-2 is still the standard for high-bitrate video. DVDs never have a resolution higher than 720x576. However, HDTV also uses MPEG-2 datastreams, and they can scale all the way to 1920x1152. DVD will not take advantage of HDTV, you won't have any better resolution there than a high-quality NTSC TV with component video connections. Eventually (probably many years from now) you will see a DVD-2 which will feature HDTV-resolution MPEG-2 datastreams.
Re:Oh boy... (Score:2)
All we can do is hope that the courts will guide us in the right direction. Either they side with the media corps and the government, and decide to declare a "war on copyright", which will be a failure, of course, just like the war on drugs. Of course there is tremendous commercial interest that would benefit, not only those still able to make some money by being the sole distributer of their information, but also the money that will go to prisons to hold all the "pirates", the information criminals.
The other direction is of course a revolutionizing of copyright, the collapse of media as we know it, since there will be no value in a product that can be infinitely reproduced, by anyone, with little cost as far as time or money.
Of course, a hybrid of the two will probably happen, and is the course that I see likely. Bad laws will be passed, they will be so repugnant to the general public that the public will demand a change, such as alcohol prohibition. This will only happen, If a subculture of pirates is not what the public sees.
It doesn't matter if there really is a subculture or not, it only matters if the public views the people who violate the laws regarding copyright as a subculture, or if they view them as the people next door, or even themselves.
So, the best we can hope for is to not come off as a subculture of rebel geeks that want to violate the laws that hold society together. We need to make sure the public realizes that it is people just like them that are violating these laws, people that aren't criminals, people that only act logically in obtaining a product that has no inherent value by the cheapest means available.
You may ask how I know these things, and I can tell you, it is because this is very parallel to the beginnings of the War on Drugs. If the people who used drugs in the 60s weren't subcultured into the title "hippy", we might not see the kinds of senseless wastes of taxpayer money we see putting away pot smokers who havn't committed a real crime.
Just some thoughts, I don't know the future, but I see this as an inevitable choice that we will make as a society, lets hope we make a good one!
-----------------------------
don't be a jackass (Score:2)
--
Quality (Score:2)
So far as compression ratio, I don't know exactly, but what I was watching was the Matrix ripped from the DVD onto a single CD-R. There was enough spare room on the CD-R to hold the CD-soundtrack as well, and a small bit of other stuff. I guess that would mean that "Saving Private Ryan" in under 350 Mb would look pretty bad compared to the original. Of course, I'm a little picky about a lack of compression artifacts (they jump out at me). So if I was a movie industry exec, I wouldn't get too worried about massive copying of movies using Div-X (although, I suppose if I was an industry exec, I'd be worried about 9th generation copies of somebody taking a camcorder into the theatre with them, so...)
In any case, the problem isn't going to be transmitting these over the internet (350 meg is a lot to transfer to see a crappy copy of a movie). The big problem is going to be on college campuses, where a profusion of burners and 100mB/sec ethernet makes swapping a couple of gigabytes of files fairly trivial. The copy of the Matrix I saw was legal (space shifting by the owner), but I know that a lot of other movies are available on campus ethernet. I know that at least the Matrix, American Pie, The Phantom Menace, and South Park were all available near the beginning of the semester last year. I have no clue how much stuff will be up next year, but I don't think most people will be heading out to blockbuster to get their favorite movies...
Re:Can we PLEASE get a new extension? (Score:2)
Now, if the file had been
Each version of Windows (and with it, Media Player) seems to support more an more codecs, and now that the most recent versions can go query the server for unknown codecs the problem has pretty much gone away...except for DivX files. Two things are working against DivX:
1) MS hates DivX. Therefore it will never show up in that happy little list of codecs available for download from Microsoft. This means when a user gets an DivX-AVI file, and is used to having the codec already available or within easy reach...new errors come up and the file won't open without a call to me.
2) DivX is remarkably fragile. You chop so much as a few KB from the end of the file and the entire thing won't play. So when a user has an AVI file that won't open, if they could recognize it was a DivX file, they would know they are missing part of it, whereas if it isn't, then they are missing some other codec or the file is corrupt.
Going back to my Microsoft rant, how many times (talking to Windows users here) have you gotten a text file with a
I honestly don't see why the computer industry is so hesitant to create new extensions. We aren't even limited to the 8.3 naming system, so the floodgates should really be coming open. It's a lot easier to search for information when you can specify a file type. Searching on ".DVX" would get you DivX-AVI instead of information on those crappy pay-per-view players.
What if all images had a
As we enter the era of file sharing, let's take a moment to make life easier for our fellow man:
My suggestions?
1) Create a new extension for Variable Bit Rate compress audio, since most programs RARELY read this information correctly (I see everything from 24 to 300 in Napster and WinAmp)
.vm3 or
2) Create a new extension for DivX encoded AVI files (and nAVI and pAVI just to be fair to the other competition in the MPEG-4 scene)
.dvx or
.nvi or
.pvi or
3) The next time you invent a cool new form of compressiong or encoding...be vain! Make a new extension just for it.
- JoeShmoe
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
More DiVX info than you probably wanted... (Score:5)
- Tom's hardware exaggerates when they say the quality is almost unnoticable. In order to fit an entire movie onto one 700 MB CD you have to set the video bit rate at about 700kbits/sec. Even then, the DiVX codec will compensate for high motion scenes by raising the bitrate and will lower the bit rate for still scenes with only talking. However, the difference between a movie encoded at this bitrate and the DVD is still quite noticeable in scenes where there is a high amount of movement, and even in low motion scenes the background begins to look blocky since the compression algorithm somehow determines that the background data isnt as important as the foreground.
- another good thing about the DiVX codec is that you can use the new WMA 2.0 audio codecs for extremely high quality audio compression which crunches down 2 hours of audio in to approx 60 MB. the difference in the audio quality is negligible to me, but then again, i dont have a 5.1 surround system (you can only encode to WMA at stereo or mono).
- you STILL have to decrypt the movies using either DeCSS or a program similar to this. I've started to use CladDVD 1.6 over the past couple of weeks or so since it parses the VOB files as it decrypts them to check for multi-angle scenes and the sort (which can REALLY screw you up when ripping a DVD by desynching the audio and video). my method has been to decrypt using cladDVD, encode to DiVX using FlaskMPEG with PCM audio, opening the audio in sound forge and normalizing it (flaskmpeg has a bug in the latest version which causes the volume to be quite low), and then multiplexing the divx audio with the new normalized sound file with Virtual Dub (which will also compress the audio at the same time to your format of choice).
- this process takes TIME!!! an hour to decrypt the VOB's...10 hours or so for a 2 hour movie to encode in flask (my p3-550 averages about 4.71 frames per second)...an hour to normalize the audio, and another 20 minutes to create the final avi with the normalized audio track.
- everyone saying that you need an 800Mhz machine to playback DiVX is misinformed. My p3-550 plays them back just fine. i also have a friend with a k6-2 500 that is able to play them back without dropping frames.
- TV out on your video card is a MUST, unless you want to watch movies on your monitor. there's been rumors of a DiVX player for the Playstation 2 (oh, goh, i will have died and gone to heaven if that ever comes to light). until then, there are NO standalone divx players : (
here's some links for more info...
DiVX: http://divx.ctw.cc http://www.gdivx.com
FlaskMPEG: http://go.to/FlaskMPEG
VirtualDub: http://www.geocities.com/virtualdub
Divx-digest: http://www.divx-digest.net/
RACK ME!!!!
MPEG-7 and MPEG-21 (Score:2)
Just for the ones that did make through the whole article:
The successor of MPEG-4 is already on the horizon and is called MPEG-7. This video standard is supposedly going to be introduced in July 2001 and principally integrates an object search routine. MPEG-2 will also be extended; MPEG-21 is the succeeding standard.
Just point out that MPEG-7 does not stand for the succesor of MPEG-4 as it tries to address a completely different field. While MPEG-1, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 focuss on video/audio compression, MPEG-7 moves into video and audio indexing basically for search and retrieval of multimedia databases so don't expect to compress your 2002 videos on MPEG-7 format but to help you search for it on the web using MPEG-7 technology.
MPEG-21, on the other hand, is still on its infancy so we'll see where it goes to.
standing ovation (Score:4)
My
Quux26
DeCSS? (Score:2)
Does this technique involve using DeCSS to decode the DVD data? If so, great; finally a practical use for it. If not, even better; this needs to be publicized because this is a much greater threat* to the MPAA than what they're trying to make illegal.
--
VHS (Score:3)
Moderate parent down: it is a troll (Score:2)
-
people will want to make perfect copies of DVDs. To do that you need to decode the DVD (using DeCSS, for example)
Switch brain on. By definition, if you are making a perfect copy, then there is no need to decode the DVD first. You just do a bit by bit copy.-
Since you're re-encoding the video you don't need DeCSS - any DVD player will do because you can capture the data after the MPEG2 decoding (e.g. with a hacked video driver).
No, not true. To quote the FlaskMPEG website [go.to], "The original FlasKMPEG can't and won't read files from encrypted DVDs". You do need DeCSS.-
This really highlights a flaw in the CSS system - it only protects the MPEG2 signal. If you don't need a bit perfect MPEG2 copy it's worthless as a protection scheme.
The closing sentence makes sense if you switch do for don't.Moderators, please: (Score:-1, Troll), not (Score:2, Informative).
MPEG-7 and MPEG-21 is not about Video (Score:2)
Regardring the amount of bytes used by MPEG-2, one must also remember that a DVD holds much more information than an VCR, multiple audio and video tracks, extra information, subtitling and so on. This means that if you just count the bytes for one audio stream and one video stream the count never is as high as 9 gigs!
For more information se http://www.cselt.it/mpeg/
Re:The good ol' compression debate (Score:2)
This has *absolutely nothing* to do with the data compression we're talking about here - I know it's easy to get confused, especially when there is also dynamic data compression around -- that's where the data compression rate changes according to the content.
Yes, though, lossy compression is becoming a bit of a pain in the arse -- I watch digital satellite TV a lot, and some channels clearly aren't paying for enough bandwidth. MPEG artefacts are rife and extremely distracting.
--
More sites (Score:2)
This is somewhat old news... I'm surprised it's taken so long to be mentioned on Slashdot. In fact, it was mentioned months ago in the Wall Street Journal [wsj.com]!
Here's some sites:
http://divx.ctw.cc/ [divx.ctw.cc]
http://divx.vcdguide.com/ [vcdguide.com]
http://www.divx-digest.com/ [divx-digest.com]
A Google [google.com] search on DivX ;-) [google.com] will also prove fruitful. Don't forget the smiley, lest it be confused with Circuit City's failed format!
If You're Not Part of the Solution... (Score:2)
What a load of reconstituted bulls***. Journalistic integrity does not begin and end where you agree with someone. Journalistic integrity is reporting the truth - whatever that truth might be - and letting the outcome be determined by the facts. What you're suggesting is partisanship, an introduction of a bias or personal agenda, to shape a social issue. This is the height of arrogance.
I'll leave your technical errors for someone else to bludgeon...
.02
My
Quux26
[OT] War on Drugs (Score:2)
ou may ask how I know these things, and I can tell you, it is because this is very parallel to the beginnings of the War on Drugs. If the people who used drugs in the 60s weren't subcultured into the title "hippy", we might not see the kinds of senseless wastes of taxpayer money we see putting away pot smokers who havn't committed a real crime.
I agree with your post, except for this part - the War on Drugs didn't start because hippies liked to smoke it - it started because of racism - Chinese immigrants smoked opium, and because of this they could work ungodly hours and would work for cheaper than American workers. The government didn't like this, and made opium illegal (I think this was the first drug law passed.) Then in the 1930's many Mexican immigrants moved to this country, and many of them liked to smoke pot. So in 1937 the US Government passed the first law making marijuana illegal ONLY because the Mexicans liked to smoke it (and against the advice of the American Medical Association, who, even then, saw its remarkable medical properties.)
Even today the War on Drugs is used as an excuse to keep minorities down. Blacks and Hispanics make up less than 10% of the drug using population, but more than 60% of drug users who are put in jail for their drug use. It's fucked up.
--
Personally I think it's an irresponsible article. (Score:2)
Re:I've Tried It: (Score:4)
The program you want is "VOBDec" It uses a cryptographic attack on the DVD rather than any reverse engineering and will work in a number of situations that DeCSS cannot cope with...
On the minus side the program is Windows only, and runs in a DOS box from an option loaded command line. There are a number of GUI front ends to help you cope with this.
As an aside I eschewed the use of FlaskMPEG as I found it VERY slow and rather buggy. However switching to the MPEG2AVI method of doing this produced a 3fold increase in speed along with quality reliable encoding. I now have all my favourite movies sitting on my HD
A great resource for all of you wannabe DVD backup merchants is Digital Digest [divx-digest.com]. All the software you need is sitting there along with articles, tips and troubleshooting advice.
How Fast Will the MPAA Sue? (Score:3)
And we know full well how futile it is to stand in the way of progress. History is full of people who tried to stand in the way of progress only to find out that progress is a steamroller that will squash you flat. History will not be kind to the MPAA or the RIAA. They'll probably be noted as a bunch of idiots who tried to stand in the way of progress. Hopefully they won't do too much damage before they go the way of the dodo.
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:5)
I think that the general problem here is that there is a perception that you cannot own and use tools in a responsible manner. You cannot outlaw a screwdriver because someone in Timbuktu used one to commit murder, rape, or burglary, because screwdrivers have legitimate legal uses. Guns, screwdrivers, and DeCSS/technology of the moment are tools. Do we outlaw them because our world has decide that because there is an illegal use, that these things must be outlawed?
Personal responsibility is the issue. Does someone become a dangerous criminal solely because they have a legally purchased and safely stored firearm, screwdriver, or copy of DeCSS(used for watching their legally purchased DVD on the Linux machine that is their only computer)? At what point does the government overstep its bound in quelling the fears of the 'people' when they remove legal ownership and access rights on the basis of spurious claims of lost revenue streams by corporations who are not being held accountable for their claims of loss?
What truly justifies things like Carnivore, if not the 'compelling interest' of a would be police state? Yes, Carnivore -could- be used in ways consistent with the Constitution, but who trusts an organization whose headquarters is the J. Edgar Hoover Building? I can assure you that Freeh is even less ethical than his infamous predecessor.Or whatever? Wanna bet we have a long legal fight before we get this tool outlawed?
At the core of the American system is the struggle of the common man to use the things he owns versus the 'compelling interest' to protect the revenue streams of Tine Warner and Disney. Corporations are not citizens and should not have the ability to vote, but they do--it's called money. Citizens have the ability to vote and often don't, because they are being brainwashed by corporations NOT to. Think for a moment on the current protests in the UK and Europe about fuel prices.
Think about how mad those people are. Realize that the Prime Ministers of most of the EU are defying the people to rise up in rebellion. Think about the parallels in the MPAA and RIAA. What is going to happen when they finally get what they are begging for?
Near DVD quality? Look at Trin's nose! (Score:2)
Ooh, that sounds familiar. Remember when everyone on Slashdot was saying that MP3 was virtually the same as CD?
Thank god we're over that.
I use MP4, I like MP4, but if anyone thinks that it's the same quality as MPEG2 at 1/11 the bandwith, take another look at Trinity's nose [tomshardware.com].
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:3)
Personal responsibility is the issue. Does someone become a dangerous criminal solely because they have a legally purchased and safely stored firearm, screwdriver, or copy of DeCSS(used for watching their legally purchased DVD on the Linux machine that is their only computer)? At what point does the government overstep its bound in quelling the fears of the 'people' when they remove legal ownership and access rights on the basis of spurious claims of lost revenue streams by corporations who are not being held accountable for their claims of loss?
What truly justifies things like Carnivore, if not the 'compelling interest' of a would be police state? Yes, Carnivore -could- be used in ways consistent with the Constitution, but who trusts an organization whose headquarters is the J. Edgar Hoover Building? I can assure you that Freeh is even less ethical than his infamous predecessor.Or whatever? Wanna bet we have a long legal fight before we get this tool outlawed?
If this isn't talking out of both sides of your mouth, I don't know what is. You argue that things that could do illegal things should be legal, because it is personal responisiblity to use them correctly. We have to assume people will use them for legal purposes, so we shouldn't ban them (and I agree with this for the most part). Then you argue that Carnivore should be illegal because it can be used in an illegal way. You don't have faith in the government to use it legally, yet you want the government to trust you to use DeCSS legally. Seems trust works both ways, if you want everyone to trust you, you have to trust them.
so... did anybody else notice (Score:2)
strange...
________
Re:Oh boy... (Score:2)
All we can do is hope that the courts will guide us in the right direction.
No, sir, that is exactly what we can NOT afford to do.
People took that attitude when the courts started violating the 2nd Amendment, and we told you that it wouldn't be the last. We were called "gun nuts" and "radicals".
Then people took that attitude when the courts started violating the 4th Amendment, and we told you that it wouldn't be the last. We were called "drug fiends" and "criminals".
Now is it a big goddamn surprise that we were *RIGHT*, and the courts are starting to take away our 1rst Amendment rights? You were warned, repeatedly. You insulted those who warned you.
Our vindication is a Pyrrhic victory; we've been proven correct, at the cost of our rights, because people took the attitude that they could "only hope the courts will guide us in the right direction".
This government was created to allow the people to guide the courts, not vice versa. Every person who doesn't know that and fight to preserve it is given up their most essential liberties, and unfortunately giving up mine too.
-
"Differences in quality are hardly noticeable"?? (Score:2)
Now, this may just be a result of how his images were screengrabbed. But it sure doesn't look like a suitable replacement for DVD quality to me -- especially if I have to have a computer monitor instead of a 36-inch (or larger) television set to watch the movie.
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:4)
There is no inconsistency here; the government should be held to much tighter constraints than a private citizen, for two reasons.
The Philosophical Reason: Government requires a short leash in order to keep the unique power of the former (legal authorization to use force up to and including full-scale military) in check.
The Pragmatic Reason: The US government (like all others I've ever heard of) has what amounts to a long "rap sheet". Even the NRA doesn't have a problem with restricting or removing a violent felon's right to bear arms as part of his punishment; by the same token, it's reasonable to restrict or remove the surveillance capabilities of the government that ran COINTELPRO (especially since it shows no sign of repenting and reforming its evil ways).
/.
OT: Actually... (Score:2)
The founding fathers wrote the Constitution on two fundamental principles:
1) All citizens must be treated as responsible until proven otherwise.
2) Any form of government will act irresponsibly if given the opportunity. So don't give them that opportunity. (see Checks & Balances)
So really, it isn't double speak. Unfortunately, a lot of people(in the US) today tend to forget these paradigms.
-Vel
Why is it illegal (Score:3)
Why would it be illegal to compress or change formats of copyrighted material? It is illegal to distribute copyrighted material without consent of the authors but compressing isn't illegal. Does anyone know an example where I am wrong?
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
I do it regularly (Score:4)
I travel for work a lot, but my laptop doesn't support an internal DVD drive. So rather than lug DVD's and a clunky external drive around with me, I recompress and put them on the HD. Decompress speed is just fine on the laptop's 500MHz PIII once it gets going, but it is jerky for about 20 seconds until everything gets buffered and cached correctly. I know the MPAA disagrees with me, but I see this as fair use...
Anyway, a couple of points to add:
1. Video quality of DiVX
2. As you mention, DeCSS is not the best way to rip DVDs anymore. I much prefer "cladDVD". Other than the short delay to brute-force the encryption key (which is often almost instant) it's just as fast as DeCSS, is considerably easier to use, and has more features (like interpreting the
3. Besides DeCSS, the DiVX
4. How hard or easy doing this is depends on the movie. Fancy releases like the Matrix and T2 are hard because of all of the extra crap thrown in, especially multi-angle stuff. Subtitles are a real pain in the neck too. A few movies have poor telecining (the process of taking a 24fps movie and converting it to NTSC) that can't be removed. I won't go into the details, but the result is a crappy-looking conversion because every few frames is the interleaved result of the two two frames immediately before and after it. This is really annoying on a non-interleaved display like a computer monitor.
Too many codecs (Score:2)
Re:FlaskMPEG + DeCSS (Score:2)
The work taht is being protected is not 'the exact arrangement of bits on the disc', it is the content of the movie itself.
DeCSS is what allows people to make *copies* of the movie in DivX form.
Sure, you can argue that it's not really a 'copy', but it IS a copy. You now have another way to watch the movie, even if the quality has changed.
Heck, if you had the storage medium, you could have stored the unencrypted data elsewhere, and effectively had a PERFECT COPY of the movie itself.
If you think the small technical details matter, you would be wrong. The CSS prevents you from accessing data in a readable format that you can play back.
Or rather, would thousands of geeks be copying DVDs if they couldn't decrypt the contents?
Re:Given how cheap DVD drives are, does this matte (Score:2)
If you want to protect your movies, put them somewhere safe AFTER you back them up.
LK
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:2)
The problem is, the MPAA, RIAA, and I'm sure whatever the Publishers AA is (that's Association of America, not the other common "AA"), have created a new classification of "tool." It's "copyright circumvention device." Since DeCSS falls into that rather broad catagory, it is illegal. In a way, it's similar to creating a new catagory of tools that are illegal which "may be used to enter areas which have been reasonably protected from entry." See, I've just made screwdrivers illegal. They can be used to pry open doors or remove locks.
They already do... (Score:2)
>CDs to tape, and play them in my car. I don't
>see anything in the least bit illegal about
>FlaskMPEG, but I'm sure that the MPAA lawyers
Yeah, the MPAA/RIAA/metallica (I honestly don't see any significant difference anymore) ALREADY sees it as illegal, even just making a copy for your car, and they've argued this before congress!!!
Remember the flap about a month or so ago, during the congressional hearings? Utah Senator Orrin Hatch, asked jack valenti/hillary rosen/lars ulrich (once again, I don't remember which, but it doesn't matter, they're all basiclly interchangable drones) if it would be legal or not for him to make a copy of an album to listen to in his wife's car. After considerable hemming and hawwing, the jack/hillary/larsbot tried to claim that it was illegal. Hatch then gave jackhillarylarsbot a viscious verbal beatdown, saying that it *IS*, in fact legal.
Orrin Hatch should know. HE HELPED WRITE THE LAW THAT MAKES IT LEGAL!!!
john
Resistance is NOT futile!!!
Haiku:
I am not a drone.
Remove the collective if
Re:About video compression from AVI (Score:2)
Are there any substitutes for that horrible Visual Reality TV tuner program for this card? It doesn't want to play nice with Half Life. Otherwise, a wonderful card.
Catch 22 (Score:2)
Re:Fractals and Wavelets and FFTs, oh my! (Score:2)
I regularly check whether I'm in 16 bit depth (for video games) or 32 bit depth (for general use, and remember that 32 is 24-with-speed-optimization not 32 bits of color differentiation) by whether or not I can see banding effects.
So, while the difference between adjacent colors in 24 bit color may seem indistinguishable, the next lower useful depth creates sharp distinctions. (Though one would thing that 'halving the colorspace' meant going from 24-bit to either 23-bit (though the meaning of that would be unclear) or 21 bit (7 bits for each of RGB) not all the way down to 16.
Anyway, the difference between 16bit and 24bit color is significant enough to me that I make sure to switch depths when switching between videogames (MythII and HereticII both work only in 16bit... ) and other activities.
--Parity
Re:VHS (Score:2)
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:2)
Be careful when you say "you cannot outlaw" something when you mean "you should not outlaw". I'm pretty sure that slim jims are illegal in Maryland -- not the beef jerky stuff, but a thin metal strip with a hook that can open car doors by sliding it into the window jamb. (Not including cops and state-licensed locksmiths, though). Outlawing bent metal sounds absurd, yet it happens.
Screenshot misrepresentation? (Score:2)
I think this is evidence of goof or a mis-representation that the second screenshot is from MPEG4 when in reality it is the same graphic file with reduced resolution to simulate what the MPEG4 version would look like.
CODEC vs file format (Score:2)
Strengthens the MPAA case (Score:2)
People still trade movies about in MPEG-1 format. Usually these are movies that are in theatres now that are ripped off by the projectionist, outside the US. Once the movies hit DVD, however, many go over to the higher quality DivX format. This is exactly what the MPAA is worried about. To be honest, I don't know how the MPAA missed this kind of piracy going on. I've only been aware of it for over 3 months.
Re:[OT] War on Drugs -- The real story (Score:2)
-- flameproof --
I don't imagine that you'll be reading this in the American press real soon
--deflameproof--
.mpg/.avi/.mov (Score:2)
An AVI file identifies the video CODEC (compression format) by referring to it's standard FourCC (four character code) identifier (e.g. "CVID" for Cinepac, "MJPG" for motion JPEG, or "DIV3"/"DIV4" for the fast/slow motion DivX MPEG4 CODECs). Windows associates the FourCC to an installed CODEC
DivX files are
Very poorly done images in the article (Score:2)
Re:FlaskMPEG legality? DeCSS? (Score:2)
Yes, if the original DeCSS is found to be illegal, then so presumably will be any derivative works, including FlasKMPEG DeCSS.
But just declaring a program illegal doesn't make it the least bit more difficult for a pirate to lay his hands on a copy. Do you think that the US gov ended up slackening controls on the use of strong crypto out of choice? It couldn't control it. And the MPAA cannot stop pirates getting DeCSS.
By fighting DeCSS, they maintain a use for FlasKMPEG that is at least morally legitamate [even if not legally so due to the need for DeCSS]. By fighting DeCSS, they stop it becoming a standard part of Linux, available straight off the CD you install from. But they push us towards FlasKMPEG, and ripping DVD -> mpeg4. Surely DeCSS alone is the lesser of two evils, given how cheap and easy it is to copy a CD?
I am not arguing whether any of this is legal, I'm just saying what I think will actually happen.
cheers,
G
Re:Why is it illegal (Score:2)
I'm not sure how legal it would be to rip a DVD to mpeg4 CD. In this thread of posts I have said that it should be, and I feel that it is at least morally fine. But even if it is acceptable to own an mpeg4 CD of a film as you own the DVD it came from, What if the means you used to create the mpeg4 CD were illegal? If DeCSS and all derived software are illegal, what about any physical artifacts (the CD) that they were used to create?
I think the guy is just doing everything he can to cover his ass from the MPAA lawyers. And I don't blame him.
G