Hollywood Says If You Support Open Source, You're ... 468
bwt writes: "It now seems that the DVD-CCA has insulted the entire open source movement. They have responded to LiViD leader Matt Pavlovich's attempt to tell California that he doesn't live there and isn't bound by their laws by asking that his motion to quash be denied. Their opposition brief starts out: Defendant Pavlovich is a leader in the so-called 'open source' movement, which is dedicated to the proposition that material, copyrighted or not, should be made available over the Internet for free. "
Re:RIAA and MPAA (Score:2)
Who will shut down the other 97 channels? The people, that's who, insisting on conformity and singularity of thought.
Remember when all men wore hats - identical hats - to work? We are on the other end of that pendulum swing right now. Strauss and Howe argue that history is cyclic in nature and that we are inevitably going to see that pendulum swing back.
In the 30s, 100,000 school children gathered on Boston Commons to chant in unison that they would help President Roosevelt make the country better and stronger. Today we can't imagine that sort of conformist indoctrination, especially in support of a politician. But those children were in the midst of a crisis cycle.
That same generation produced survivor "Rudy" -- whose word is good no matter what, who would lay down and give his life for his fellow navy seals, but at the same time who is relentlessly bigoted and unaccepting of behavior one notch away from the norm.
We can only hope that crisis doesn't lead to his sort of shutdown of individual choice. We don't know what sort of common approach will be celebrated, though. Instead of insisting on the racial/sexual/etc bigotry of yesteryear, the new commonality might be the political correctness of today, or something we can't possibly anticipate.
In any case you can see the whole thing starting; today's kids are definitely more cared-for and thus more carefully indoctrinated than they were 20 years ago.
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Re: claim that it's actually a misdemeanor (Score:2)
Um, I'd be happy to be corrected, but before I believe possession of DeCSS in source form is NOT a felony with the stated maximum penalties under DMCA, I'd want to hear a lawyer confirm it in his professional capacity. Your common sense opinion is regrettably not the final word on the matter: more's the pity. If it was that simple and sensible, a lot of people would have less to worry about. Where does the law stand NOW? Is it not the case that you can be charged with a felony crime for knowing possession of DeCSS (specifically) in source code form?
Supressing encryption via legal system (Score:2)
This is not a new strategy. The U.S. Government used this strategy for many years to slow the adoption of personal encryption products, and it worked. For example, the persecution of Phil Zimmerman was specifically designed to slow the adoption of his PGP software as the standard mechanism for private EMAIL, and it worked -- how many people today send private encrypted EMAIL? Almost nobody, outside of a few dozen subscribers to the Cypherpunks mailing list. Sure, you and I can send encrypted EMAIL between each other (or could if I'd ever bothered generating a key :-), but how many ordinary everyday people could do that using the ordinary software that came with their computer?
My feeling is that this case will be found in favor of the DVDCCA, because regardless of the Constitution of the United States, the next President will be as much a corporate puppet as the majority of congressmen are. People hold hope that the Supremes might rule different. They certainly may. And the horse could learn to talk too. Recent rulings by the Supremes show that anything you get out of them is a crapshoot, meaning that even if they accept a case such as MPAA vs. 2600, there's a good chance they will decide that the economic health of the United States is more important than the Constitution (after all, they've ruled that RICO is constitutional, even though it violates at least two of the Bill of Rights).
I have no solutions. I am not enamored of revolution. The so-called "leaders" of revolutions tend to be rather unsavory power-hungry types who are worse than the dictators that they replace, and besides, most people are affluent enough that they don't mind that they now live in a corporate dictatorship rather than in a free country (not that the United States has ever been particularly free -- just ask union organizers of the 1930's, or civil rights workers of the 1950's, about how "free" the United States ever was). After all, this corporate dictatorship has proven far better at providing mind-numbing entertainment and consumer goods than the earlier power cliques that ruled this country, such as, e.g., the military/industrial clique in the 1950's (thus the "Red Scare"). Certainly that messy thing called "democracy" is far inferior to this nice, safe corporate state? After all, the planes DO run on time, right? (okay, so that one went over your head, it was about Mussolini -- despite his boasting that fascism made the trains run on time, by all acounts Italian trains were off-schedule just as regularly during his fascist rule as they were before it... Italians have never been known for efficiency, fascist or not :-).
-E
Re:Hmm, the MPAA must be reading slashdot. (Score:2)
Where?
I see plenty of articles about software patents. But I haven't seen a thing suggesting that copyright be removed.
That copyright not be extended to exclude fair use, and that it not permit the owner to control access to legally purchased media -- yup, I've seen plenty of that. But copyright itself? Without copyright, there would be no GPL, no Artistic License, no licenses at all -- everything would be public domain. And whether you're trying to make money by hiding your code, or keep people from stealing it and putting it into commercial software without giving you credit, everyone here sees that as A Bad Thing.
So don't make those accusations. They're simply untrue.
Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:2)
If it was that simple, we wouldn't have much of a problem. You can stick your head in the sand and keep thinking that the judicial system is not predjudice, but that just makes you willfully ignorant. Most judges are old white guys who have learned to be predjudice from their parents, who in turn learned it from their parents, etc. Yes, it's gotten better over time, but it is still very very real, and a lot more widespread than anyone would care to admit. The poster was right, black people usually do get a harsher sentence than a white person for committing the exact same crime. "You do the crime, you do the time" is not really the issue. The issue is that 2 people doing the same crime should do the same time, all other things being equal. Unfortunately, things often don't work that way.
Re:DVDCCA.org uses Apache (Score:2)
Just to clarify, Apache itself is open source, regardless of what OS it's running on.
Re:Arrogance. (Score:2)
That's a terribly romantic notion you have, and you could probably even turn it into a movie plot if you wanted to. The problem is that geeks as a group are terribly outgunned in the sense that they cannot bring the kind of money, power, focus, and influence to bear on a problem that the big media industry can. Media has the ability to influence popular opinion. If open source software or free software can be turned into phrases that carry a negative cannotation, and the public can be made to think that they are bad things that hurt artists and hard-working Americans everywhere, then we are screwed. Don't go thinking that we hold all the cards. You're way off base.
Re:I don't go! (Score:2)
Why? Because one of the strongest arguments MPAA and RIAA have is that file sharing and unlicensed DVD watching takes away their profit. If the statistics show that the sales have actually gone up instead of down, they can't use that argument anymore.
RIAAs profits ARE up, and it hasn't slowed them down one bit.
When is it libelous? (Score:2)
Open Source is a trademarked word, and there are a few people who stand behind the coined term in order to enhance their position is this meritocracy we have.
At what point is this assertion libelous? They didn't slander any human beings in particular, but people have associated themselves very closely with the "Open Source Movement". I'm fairly certain that Open Source is a registered trademark. I'm no lawyer, but i would be interested to know when there is a case.
Re:Well if you follow that logic... (Score:2)
Hmm, the MPAA must be reading slashdot. (Score:2)
And slashdot does claim to be part of this so-called "Open Source" movement.
Re:Then again.... (Score:2)
Oh, I think they ARE angry... (Score:2)
I'm furious that they had the unmitigated gall to tar all of us with that same brush.
Re:Perjury is hard (Score:2)
Yes, we could have some fun with publicity about this one.
Thanks
Bruce
Re:Well if you follow that logic... (Score:2)
Re:These guys watched too many Errol Flyn movies (Score:2)
Now - obviously, if they were using the DMCA instead (which they can't cause that's federal law) then they would have something. This particular angle is falacious on it's face.
Re:Arrogance. (Score:2)
But we do have a lot of common views and an emergent group identity, and we could easily move to a situation where a geek who worked for the Big Media was socially ostracised by other geeks
In my recent job search, I interviewed with and briefly considered working for a company that's involved in developing secure formats for digital content. I don't know very much about exactly where they fit into the picture with MP3 vs. SoDoMI, etc., but it seemed close enough to pose a moral conflict for me. I mentioned it to a few friends and they speculated (at least, I hope, part-jokingly) that they wouldn't be able to hang out with me anymore if accepted that job. I wouldn't say that that decided it for me, since I had just about reached the same decision on my own (namely, that I couldn't work there because I didn't agree morally with their goals), but I think the whole story is close enough to your suggestion to be relevant.
David Gould
Re:I won't comment totally until you explain this (Score:2)
That is false. It does, however, mean that you get the shorter copyright term otherwise given to corporations, rather than the longer one for individuals. (they're both almost 100 years or more, so big whoop :P)
he's right, you know (Score:2)
A slightly toned down version of the troll's post (reproduced below, since the moderators did not recognize its value) could very easily be used as an argument in court by DVD-CCA lawyers (and in fact, this reasoning is most likely exactly where they came up with their comment in the first place). Worse, I can easkily see this being used later in news broadcasts (remember who owns the major news distributors) and PR campeigns...
The troll:
Re:and yet we still go (Score:2)
It's tough with so many boycotts, but you have to stick to your guns to keep your credibility.
Re:Then again.... (Score:2)
Re:Then again.... (Score:2)
Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:2)
*Of* *course* the whole thing was sophistry!
Ever try to get people to think? It's damn near impossible these days. There are terrible things being done by the American legal system and government. Absurd laws are being passed -- laws that give businesses more power than people; laws that give police more powers and reduce people's rights; laws that punish people who don't cause physical harm to property or people.
Why are these laws being made? Why isn't the general public up in arms and demanding that the government F.O.A.D.? Why is most everyone so sheeplike that they're going to let their every freedom and right be infringed on, to the point where they'll no longer have freedoms or rights?
The only way to kickstart some people's brains is through sophistry. And even then, it doesn't seem to always work -- *you* certainly don't seem to be giving your head a shake and thinking about the implications of what I've said, even if you were to slash the figures I posted to one-tenth their size.
The American Way is on the fast-track to becoming the same way as the dictatorships that have been mentioned.
Wake up, people. You gotta start figuring out that the government is becoming a police dictatorship. By the time it becomes as full-fledged as those in China, Burma and Africa, it'll be too damned late to change it.
--
Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:2)
I believe the idea is that you take the incarceration rate of 647/100000, which would be an annual average, and multiply it out by a lifespan -- say fifty years (we'll give the kids a break). Of course this ignores recidivism and such...
...but the point is made: the incarceration rate is atrociously high. It *USED* to be around 313/100000 in 1985, and about 215/100000 in the seventies. Averaged through the first seventy-five years of the past century, it was around 110/100000.
Do take notice that the numbers are heading geometric, not linear.
Now ask yourself *WHY* so many people are being tossed into prison. Is the murder rate heading skyward? Is theft growing?
What sort of personal and/or property damages are being done that justify so many arrests? Or are the crimes victimless: the perps being self-abusive drug users?
And follow the money. Who benefits by a large prison population? Who's getting paid? Who makes a profit? Who gains an advantage by removing people's voting privileges?
There are connections and ideas that have to come to mind. If you're reasonably intelligent, I believe you'll start to suspect that the system is loaded, that someone's making big money, and that the whole prison situation would be a farcical obscenity if it weren't so destructive to fellow citizens.
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Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:2)
A small taste of being black in America.
--
Re:When is it libelous? (Score:2)
In a legal brief, nowhere. Christ, I wish American culture would get over this fucking legal fetish, it just enables these big giants to do the same.
It's time for a new Declaration of Independence! (Score:2)
Seriously, I've just read not one, but THREE stories on Slashdot that indicate to me that the US Government is DANGEROUSLY OUT OF CONTROL.
Is there a full moon out tonight?
I, for one, am fed up with lawyers, corporations and unelected beaurocrats running the government that supposedly belongs to the people. I'm tired of seeing court rulings and laws slanting towards the MONEY, and away from the people. I'm tired of the Republicans, and I'm especially tired of the Democrats. There's not a bit of difference between them anymore. Both parties feel they know better how to run my life, and take 35% of my weekly paycheck to do so.
From what I've been reading lately, things aren't much better in Canada, Great Britain or Australia. And forget about Singapore!
It's time for a GLOBAL tea party... a tea party that will make the WTO protests look like a stroll in the park.
For those of you in the US, I urge you to not walk, but RUN to the Libertarian Party's site [lp.org] and Harry Browne's site. [harrybrowne2000.org] Please DON'T opt for the lesser of two evils in this election; we're at a crossroads here, and whoever is elected next will have a lot of influence on which of the roads we travel down.
If you don't believe in either of the two major candidates, send them a message this November. Vote for a third party candidate. Even if your candidate doesn't win, you're sending the winner a message that you're not happy with the status quo!
Folks, the articles I've read here tonight tell me that this is WAY beyond Open Source vs. Microsoft or KDE vs. Gnome. This is about rights (for those of us in the US) being trampled on that our founding fathers saw were basic for human beings. Don't let the corporations strip us of these basic rights!!
Dave Walker
Re:What they're really saying is ...... (Score:2)
Dunno, but last time I masturbated, I certainly didn't give it out, much less for free...
Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:2)
Duh ? Crime against the nation??? Alleged copyright infringement a "crime against the nation"??? Gee, Hollywood must have been smoking some really good shit!!!
Re:two words (Score:2)
coward
if you don't believe what you say, why say it?
This is especially ironic from someone posting, as most of us do, under a pseudonym.
How does the fact that one is posting anonymously equate to not believing what one says?
Has it never occurred to you that someone might post anonymously so that he won't get fired? Perhaps because he believes very strongly in what he's saying, but feels that his duty to feed his children overrides your curiousity over his identity?
-
Re:Shouldn't OSI sue over this? (Score:2)
The Free Media License - openflick.org (Score:2)
I am of course an amateur, and no direct threat to Hollywood, but the license is available for anyone to use. A few people with more talent[1] than I making use of it could become a real reason for Hollywood to fear.
[1]Fortunately, my mediocre talent still far surpasses that of much of Hollywood's writers, though that isn't saying much I'm afraid.
Leading Panama ? (Score:2)
Way, offtopic but since I'm a Panamenian I have to clarify this. Since when was Noriega (Pineapple face) "the leader of Panama". He was not an elected leader, but a dictator, that had many puppet presidents. This is a known fact !
There are arguments about the invasion, and about Noriega being in a US jail (he should be in a real jail, in Panama), but don't make it sound like the bastard was some kind of good leader. For goodness sake, he declared war on the US !!!
Most of the people in Panama wanted him out.
Re:My reaction. (Score:2)
Re:My reaction. (Score:2)
Big MPAA members "supports" the EFF... (Score:2)
With big corporations like these behind us, finding funds to help win the DeCSS should be easy...
The real problem is... (Score:2)
The key figure is the bad guy who is using the term Open Source for his own agenda.
But the objective of open source isn't to forcably rip peoples copyrights from them but to prevent them from putting copyrights on otherwise free (as in speach) software.
It is also to bring out awareness of todays busnesses (the Hollywood film industry is no exeption) is abusing IP laws by clamming IP rights to everything from trivial ideas to coffy cup stains on the table and enforcing those rights in an outragous manner.
But it is not about violating the law. It is not about taking a persons hard work away from them.
Today an executive gets premoted becouse he bumpped his head had a strange dream and patented it.
I'm all for copyrights on films that cost $1milion to film. I'm all for copyrighting the script that some writer (hack or not) sat down and wrote over 6 months to 4 years (With breaks for bathroom, food, sex, life, etc).
And I'm all for copyrights on even the most trival of code. I'm also for not buying it and leaving him poor for his efforts.
But this isn't open souce... this is a theaf...
To highlight just how little reguard he has for other people...
He calls his effort.. "Open source"
and to show how much Hollywood cares... they never bothered to seperate him from us...
Instead this theaf and our work are lumpped together...
I say we go out and interview Hollywood... no not the industry... the street gang... (there should be at least one named something like "The Hollywood thugs").
Re:Jurisdiction (Score:2)
Re:They never quit. (Score:2)
THe case is about DMCA and 'distributing information / device
THe case is not about how they arrived with DECSS.. everyone, even the lawyers, like to try to bringn up the outside issues.
THe case is about decss, period, as a violation of the DMCA.
Won the Battle, may Loose the War (Score:2)
In the sense that the DeCSS cat is out of the bag and cannot be put back in, we may have won the battle, and many people seem more than happy to flaunt this by being in the faces of Hollywood and the MPAA, but it will be difficult to win the war in the long run.
The real enemy is the DMCA, not the MPAA, but even if the DMCA is overturned, it may not matter. You can bet the next technology after DVD will use much stronger encryption, and with decryption keys that can be changed over time or are customized to each individual user, not to mention digital watermarks, etc. - they've learned their lesson and the next system will be much harder to crack, or if it proves crackable, much harder to make a mass distributable circumvention tool. If it can't be cracked, then presence or lack of the DMCA won't really matter.
The reality is that pay-per-view is coming whether we like it or not. The problem is that we have a legal system that allows us to enter into legally binding contracts. I would also bet that the next form of mass media distribution may involve signed contracts between producers and consumers, similar to satellite TV contracts. Once you have a signed contract, fair use issues are pretty much moot - you are bound by whatever is in the contract. Correct me if I'm wrong, but a signed contract of the form "I'll produce entertainment content for you if you agree not to do such-and-such with it" is probably perfectly legal. They're not stupid, they proably won't make the same mistake again.
You might say "well, content providers will pop up that won't do things this way, and we'll support them". The problem is we're so dependent on Hollywood for our entertainment that it won't work - how many of us will give up seeing the next Star Wars movie? Really, how many?
In a sense, the mass movie market is already pay-per-view. Most of the huddled masses these days rent their movies, they're already used to it, so a small boycot on the fringes will probably be unlikely to change things much. As a result, we're ultimately going to have to accept closed-source viewing software.
Kind of pessimistic, but that's the way I see it anyway.
Morally Liberal, Fiscally Conservative. (Score:2)
Hollywood people, the big money people, are conservative to the bone. They tolerate most liberals because their $7.50 plus popcorn is as good as anyone else's. Directors are liberal, producers are liberal, actors are liberal, backers and distributors are conservative as hell.
~Jason
Re:RIAA and MPAA (Score:2)
Indoctrination? So, how bout we lose the uniforms, and have schools where the divide between rich kid (wearing his latest Tommy jacket) versus poor kid is exaggerated. The world is not a conspiracy.
two words (Score:2)
coward
if you don't believe what you say, why say it?
two more pairs of words
nothing ventured
nothing gained
--
Re:RIAA and MPAA (Score:2)
The next question is how long society will tolerate this before reverting back to conformity and three "channels" again.
How will that happen? Who is going to shut down the other 97 channels? Who is going to decide which three channels to keep? I doubt you will find any consensus among the populace about which channels they are willing to give up to achieve their desired commonality. And what about the Internet with its millions of channels? That also pulls people away from their precious 3-channel television commonality. Will everyone willingly give up their Internet connections?
If our only common experience is that we were lied to by the same politicians and corporations, then when a real crisis occurs...
Actually, when people finally realize that that is their most common experience, there will be a real crisis -- for the politicians and corporations. I predict that there will be a new popular shared entertainment: tar and feather parades. People will gather around the water cooler on Mondays and discuss whether Joe Congressman or Jane CEO really got the treatment they deserved or whether they should be run through the gauntlet again next Saturday.
Trickster Coyote
Please ignore the man behind the curtain.
Re:Well if you follow that logic... (Score:2)
IIRC you can do this kind of thing with UCITA.
Re:Sorry, I just tipped them off... (Score:2)
Maybe their CO (General Public) needs to come and sort matters out.
Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:2)
This case is notable because the US actaully pulled it off. If things are so easy why has the same stunt not been pulled with Serbia, Iraq and Cuba?
The USA showing contempt for international law is hardly news.
Re:Usually I support the legal system-Sometimes (Score:2)
Plenty of 3rd world countries you wouldn't want to fool with. The most amazing thing is how few US cites have been subjected to bombings.
It becomes more clear everyday... (Score:3)
Unpickets (Score:3)
I am going to try fiddling with the code to see if I can get it to print attractively on one sheet of paper. I figure I can do a certain amount of this without going to jail, as long as _I_ don't stand in front of Blockbuster handing them out.
How about mailing copies to your Senators and representatives, asking if they would be good enough to simply keep the copy despite the fact that keeping that information is a felony crime? Might make for good sound bites, politicians like to be seen doing dramatic stuff like holding a press conference to say,
Now, how would that be? We need some politicians to recognize how media-friendly this situation can be to them.Re:Then again.... (Score:3)
That all hackers wear glasses (sunglasses if they're "hip") so that the ultra-bright monitor they're using provides visable glare against them.
That all hackers use 128 point fonts so that the folks at the back of the theater can read the screen.
That all hackers subsist solely on candy and jolt.
That all hackers skateboard/rollerblade/both.
etc.
--
Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:3)
Did you know that Americans stand a 1/5 chance of going to jail at some point in their lives? If your so unfortunate as to be a black American, you're closer to a 1/3 chance of incarceration.
America has an incarceration rate of over 645/100000 annually. That's atrociously high.
Of course, the reason so many Americans are in jail is because the US government is running an ever-losing "war on drugs," mainly because it's highly profitable to a few people in power.
Alcohol kills six times more people than illegal drugs do, and smoking kills 30 times as many. But both remain legal. Speaking of pot, didja know that if you're a whiteboy caught with an ounce, you'll probably get nailed for possession; whereas if you're black, you're inevitably going to get charged with dealing. Blacks are fucked whenever they encounter the law.
But, let's not talk drugs: it's too controversial. Let's talk politics -- or, rather, not being allowed to be political.
Did you know that a third of the US population can't name a single first-amendment right? That'd include some biggies, like "freedom of speech" and
"freedom to peaceably assemble."
Certainly the LA and Philadelphia police don't know about those rights. There are people still in jail, nearly a month after the the GOP convention in Philly (http://www.phillyimc.org/) and the LA police beat the living shit out of folk who were protesting at the Democrat's convention.
Oh, this is just too depressing. I've got to stop writing about it... other than China, it could be difficult to find a more repressive regime than America.
--
Hollywood. Gotta love 'em. (Score:3)
And they are deeply threatened by Silicon Valley. Not so much economically - there's money is crap film and bad music that will never go away - but from the fact that silicon has become sexy in a way that celluloid used to be. (I know that's catch-phrasey, but hey.)
Don't expect them to get it. They never will, because if they did, their fragile ego-structures would crumble into dust.
I don't go! (Score:3)
I won't ever see their dreck again.
I also do not own, nor ever will own a DVD player. Perhaps, a DVD-RAM someday, but only if it works with OpenBSD and Linux and only if I get source to the drivers! Hell, I might write the drivers myself.
I'm sick of these corporate bastards and their lawyers. They try to make up for their own mediocrity by suing everything in sight.
But, this does prove one thing: the Internet truly is an amazing and unprecedented invention. It will wreak havoc with the law because of questions like this one, here: who has jurisdiction when some country's laws are broken.
I don't know that any laws were broken in this case. Why must they always parrot the "this software aids copying line" when it's clear that all we want is software to play their stinking movies? They're just pissed the software was written without using their reference implementation and therefore without a license fee having been paid. All I can say is, get used to it, boys! The world as you knew it is coming to an end.
Re:Well if you follow that logic... (Score:3)
JAIL (Score:3)
ftp://ftp.u.washington.edu/public/arobs/css
ftp://sun.rl.odessa.ua/pub/decss
http://130.111.75.63:142
http://216.35.100.9/ma/kdawson/deecessess
http://24.114.168.235/public/css.htm
http://24.15.107.67/DeCSS
http://24.6.244.114/DeCSS
http://2600.dk/mirrors/css
http://334.se2600.org
http://DVDoutrage.Tripod.com
http://MSD.dyndns.org
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~sd_fort
http://amergeisaphreak.netfirms.com
http://andrewstern.freeservers.com/decss
http://artun.ee/~rommi/css
http://benyossef.com/freedom
http://bigpoppa.adsl.alpha1.net/decss
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/clcktwr
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/klflatt
http://budice.ancients.net/decss
http://budsmoker.com/sites/decss
http://bur-jud-118-039.rh.uchicago.edu/dvd
http://cant-stop-us-all.freehosting.net
http://chaz.fsgs.com/misc/DvD
http://chemlab.org/~dvd
http://cherryville.org/dvd
http://come.to/intelex
http://cs.unca.edu/~dillzc/decss
http://css.choppy.com/data
http://cssalgorithm.8m.com
http://cybertrippin.net
http://cymorg.bizland.com/index2.html
http://dB.org/dvd
http://dandruff.cs.unm.edu/~bap/DeCSS
http://darklord.darkthrone.com/users/smith/dvd
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~homeyd/DVD
http://dcwi.com/~wench/decss
http://debian.mps.krakow.pl/mirror/css
http://decss.8m.com
http://decss.cx
http://decss.cyvoid.net
http://decss.fall0ut.com
http://decss.freeservers.com
http://decss.freeshell.org
http://decss.fzylogic.net
http://decss.htmlplanet.com
http://decss.netfirms.com
http://decss.z-man.org
http://decss_files.tripod.com
http://decssmirror.homestead.com
http://deelbeson.detour.net
http://dephile.hypermart.net
http://dephile.hypermart.net/dvdinfo.html
http://developer.dnepr.net/dvdcss
http://dialug.org/html/decss.html
http://dirtass.beyatch.net
http://dlsf.org
http://doghousepages.lycos.com/collecting/midni
http://donotsueme.freeservers.com
http://donotsueme.homepage.com
http://dosdemon.yi.org/decss
http://dsl129.drizzle.com:2001/downloads/DVD
http://dvd.coolpeople.dhs.org
http://dvd.k4dwi.net/dvd
http://dvd.loathe.com
http://dvdcopy.cjb.net
http://dvdcrack.homepage.com
http://dvdcss.newmail.ru
http://earendel.gt.ed.net/dvd
http://ebmedia.net/dvd
http://elknews.netpedia.net/dvd
http://fairuse.freeservers.com
http://freedecss.50megs.com
http://freemymind.homepage.com
http://freeshell.org/~simm
http://friko6.onet.pl/war/mkochano
http://ftp.yodanet.schwaebischhall.de/pub/DeCSS
http://ftso.org/decss
http://geocities.com/donquix0te
http://geocities.com/dontquit222
http://go.to/decss
http://go.to/nairos_dvd
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~deepbleu
http://heavymusic.8m.com
http://heky.org/dc
http://home.att.net/~phreakonaleash/ccs_mirror-
http://home.clara.net/bangor/DeCSS
http://home.cyberarmy.com/drj/DeCSS
http://home.cyberarmy.com/enac/dvdencrypt.html
http://home.earthlink.net/~kaos_inc
http://home.earthlink.net/~rocketrob
http://home.earthlink.net/~snagnbytz
http://home.monet.no/~christel/dvd.html
http://home.onestop.net/lakitu/mirror
http://home.pacbell.net/pfconces
http://home.postnet.com/~wsl3/DeCSS
http://home.primus.com.au/ratzmilk
http://home.rmci.net/bert/dvd
http://home.rmci.net/bert/fuckthelawyers
http://home.sol.no/~craphead/DVD
http://home.worldonline.dk/~loadfree/CSS
http://homepage.dtn.ntl.com/paul.chan
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~cbunton
http://imezok.tripod.com/Untitled.txt
http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/dvd
http://inferno.tusculum.edu/~neil/decss
http://internettrash.com/users/linuxdvd
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http://kesagatame.tripod.com
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http://killer.radom.net/~shoggoth/dvd.html
http://linux.uci.agh.edu.pl/~outlaw/decss.html
http://loogham.2y.net/decss
http://magic.hurrah.com/~fireball/dvd
http://mail.sirak.org
http://matt.frogspace.net/css
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/jwhite8055/DeCSS
http://members.home.net/dgweb
http://members.hometown.aol.com/_ht_a/MysticJTY
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http://members.tripod.com/~sk8or311
http://members.xoom.com/CaitSith16/DeCSS.htm
http://members.xoom.com/LinuxDVD
http://members.xoom.com/NiKeX
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http://members.xoom.com/arjicle
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http://members.xoom.com/get_decss
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http://members.xoom.com/maud123/Home/CSS.htm
http://members.xoom.com/mogreen/decss
http://members.xoom.com/nyc2600
http://members.xoom.com/phireproof
http://members.xoom.com/s_o_sam/help.html
http://members1.chello.nl/~o.seibert/DeCSS
http://merlinjim.freeservers.com/dvd
http://mikedotd.penguinpowered.com/deccs
http://mikedotd.penguinpowered.com/decss
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http://nomoredvd.tripod.com
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http://pcmania.bg/9-99/mortyr/_vti_cnf/_vti_pvt
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/bojay/slashdot
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/simulacrum/decss.
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/cyberwave/DeCSS.h
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/dantepsn
http://personalweb.smcvt.edu/wtaylor/decss.html
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http://primate.net/DVD
http://pyrrhic.8m.com/DeCSS
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http://sadennes.is.dreaming.org/hanadu
http://saturate.org/decss.asp
http://saturn.spaceports.com/~brainz/DVD
http://screw_MPAA.tripod.com
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http://sites.uol.com.br/decss
http://smokering.org
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http://strange.8k.com
http://stunman.iwarp.com
http://stuweb.ee.mtu.edu/~krcalhoo/DeCSS/DeCSS.
http://sweet.as/decss
http://tatooine.fortunecity.com/moorcock/337
http://telnet.stealth.kirenet.com/~star/dvd
http://the.wiretapped.net/wt/dvd
http://theannux.homestead.com/decss.html
http://thesanitarium.n3.net
http://ts1.online.fr/dvd
http://underground.pl/dvd
http://users.1st.net/roundhere/decss
http://users.1st.net/roundhere/decss/index.htm
http://users.bigpond.net.au/nf/dvd
http://users.pandora.be/glenn.plas/dvd
http://vandenborre.org
http://vedaa.tripod.com/decss.html
http://w1.1634.telia.com/~u163400190
http://wakeupthe.net/dvd
http://warpedreality.members.easyspace.com
http://website.lineone.net/~kellypink/DeCSS
http://werewolf12.cjb.net
http://wildsurge.a2000.nu/decss
http://wiw.org/~drz/css
http://wusn-members.xoom.com/ambisagrus
http://www.19f.org/dvd.html
http://www.2600.org.au/dvd.html
http://www.UnderTheStairs.com
http://www.adulation.net/css
http://www.agybby.com/dvd
http://www.algonet.se/~skeleton/other.html
http://www.alltel.net/~ledwards/css.htm
http://www.amerisuk.com/~carbon/css.html
http://www.angelfire.com/biz5/revblack
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/drugme
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/acidlocke
http://www.angelfire.com/hiphop/rawkus
http://www.angelfire.com/in/sight
http://www.angelfire.com/mb/DVDoutrage
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/DeCss
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/dvdiss
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/mpaasucks
http://www.angelfire.com/nh/panzah
http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/ny2600
http://www.angelfire.com/or2/buzzkill
http://www.angelfire.com/pe/sh3/deccs
http://www.angelfire.com/pokemon/decss
http://www.angelfire.com/punk/DeCSS/DeCSS
http://www.angelfire.com/punk/freedom
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/dblagbro
http://www.angelfire.com/sk2/braindamage
http://www.angelfire.com/tx3/wingers/decss.html
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/bigbrother
http://www.angelfire.com/wa2/phederalphelony/br
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/leggosfun/dvd.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/yt/mpaasucks
http://www.angelfire.com/zine/DeCSS
http://www.artnotart.com/anne/decss.html
http://www.asleep.net/dvd
http://www.asylum.webprovider.com
http://www.auntfloyd.com/DeCSS
http://www.auracom.com/~rhomac/dvd
http://www.azillionmonkeys.com/qed/recess_for_c
http://www.best.com/~drumz/decss
http://www.bugbbq.org/decss
http://www.capital.net/~mazzic
http://www.charm.net/~dutch
http://www.chello.nl/~f.vanwaveren
http://www.cognitronics-tech.com
http://www.conspiracynow.com/theories/decss
http://www.constant.demon.co.uk
http://www.copkiller.org
http://www.corecomm.net/~davebb/css-auth
http://www.corova.com/dvd
http://www.cpinternet.com/~jhanson
http://www.crosswinds.net/oakland/~ahrendt/Lawy
[...]
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dvdcrack
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS
http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~feise/DeCSS
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/dvd.htm
http://www.csl.mtu.edu/~pdlathro/filez/DeCSS/De
http://www.ct2600.org/2600-DVD.html
http://www.cybertrippin.net
http://www.cyperspace.org/~multicom
http://www.december.ndo.co.uk
http://www.deforest.org/CSS
http://www.deprecated.org
http://www.dgw3.com/dvd
http://www.discountwebhost.com/decss
http://www.divisionbyzero.com/decss
http://www.dodgenet.com/~nickz/decss
http://www.ductape.net/~alpha/decss
http://www.duffbrew.com/decss
http://www.execpc.com/~unicorn/dvdmirror.htm
http://www.firstlight.net/~clarka/decss
http://www.flypop.com
http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/coax/1107
http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/motorola/
http://www.fortunecity.com/victorian/parkwood/9
http://www.frankw.net/decss
http://www.free-dvd.org.lu
http://www.freebox.com/zcedri
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/mpaaidiot
http://www.fsp.com
http://www.futureone.com/~damaged
http://www.geekbits.com/decss
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/3807/2600T
http://www.geocities.com/Ongakka/rebel.html
http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline/Curb/1232/DeC
http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Stati
http://www.geocities.com/Shapierian
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Hardware
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Modem/41
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Ridge/37
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Software
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Software
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5258/decss.html
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhibit/5771/decs
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Undergroun
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Dome/4021/
http://www.geocities.com/cold_dvd
http://www.geocities.com/corporatemindcontrol
http://www.geocities.com/dba3297
http://www.geocities.com/decss2
http://www.geocities.com/decss_2000
http://www.geocities.com/decss_forever
http://www.geocities.com/decss_mirror
http://www.geocities.com/djph3ad/decss
http://www.geocities.com/donquix0te
http://www.geocities.com/duck_ohm
http://www.geocities.com/dvdcracked
http://www.geocities.com/dvdfightback
http://www.geocities.com/dvdrevolution
http://www.geocities.com/dvdsuit/dvd
http://www.geocities.com/dvdthings
http://www.geocities.com/epoxy_css
http://www.geocities.com/fairusedecss
http://www.geocities.com/fr33dvd
http://www.geocities.com/getyourdvd
http://www.geocities.com/ghaniali
http://www.geocities.com/iwantdvd
http://www.geocities.com/k4dwi/dvd
http://www.geocities.com/k4wi/dvd
http://www.geocities.com/madasian2000/decss_mir
http://www.geocities.com/mastaflame
http://www.geocities.com/meluchwj
http://www.geocities.com/mydefiance
http://www.geocities.com/necready433
http://www.geocities.com/necready433/dvd
http://www.geocities.com/neurosis_dvd
http://www.geocities.com/opendvdecss
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/computer
http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/6752
http://www.geocities.com/solidex
http://www.geocities.com/verruktesten
http://www.geocities.com/warrdragon_2000
http://www.geocities.com/watice2
http://www.geocities.com/whackmol
http://www.geocities.com/xtridzz
http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~awirth1/decss
http://www.glue.umd.edu/~castongj
http://www.hackunlimited.com/dvd
http://www.hakor.com/DVD
http://www.hellnet.org.uk/decss.htm
http://www.hobbiton.org/~tpm
http://www.hote.qc.ca/dvd
http://www.hotsoupmedia.com/decss
http://www.idrive.com/decss/web
http://www.iinet.net.au/~matlhdam/DeCSS
http://www.image.dk/~mbp
http://www.imsoelite.com/dvd
http://www.infa.abo.fi/~raine/pub/software/DeCS
http://www.ironbrick.com/decss
http://www.ismokecrack.com
http://www.jabberwocky.eyep.net/decss.html
http://www.k4dwi.net/dvd
http://www.kentroad.demon.co.uk/decss
http://www.kiss.uni-lj.si/~k4ef1890/css
http://www.kki.net.pl/~rsr66/css
http://www.koek.net/dvd
http://www.krackdown.com/decss
http://www.lemuria.org/DeCSS
http://www.lifesolo.com/bin
http://www.linuxnerd.net/decss
http://www.linuxstart.com/~kvance/projects/decs
http://www.linuxstart.com/~sys_admin
http://www.lockpicking.nl/decss
http://www.mafkees.com/dvd
http://www.mayday2000.org.uk/decss.htm
http://www.members.tripod.com/dkdecss
http://www.mindspring.com/~coueys
http://www.mindspring.com/~stonethrower
http://www.multimania.com/sxpert/decss
http://www.mykle.com/DVD
http://www.myshed.net/dvd
http://www.nacs.net/~vodak/dvd
http://www.netby.net/Oest/Hvalfiskegade/jana/cs
http://www.netspace.net.au/~gromit
http://www.networksplus.net/blogg
http://www.neurosis.org/dvd
http://www.nsnva.pvt.k12.va.us/~abc
http://www.ntsmedia.com/decss
http://www.nvhs.nl/decss
http://www.nwu.edu/people/ldb/decss.html
http://www.oblivion.net/~amar/css
http://www.oksanen.net/ville/this_is/under/Finn
http://www.olen.net/deCSS
http://www.oz.net/~tvaughan
http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~jer24
http://www.penismightier.com/weishaupt/dvd.html
http://www.pepper-land.net
http://www.philter.com/DVD
http://www.pippy.itgo.com
http://www.posexperts.com.pl/people/wrobell/css
http://www.projectbullshit.com/decss.html
http://www.projectgamma.com/deccs
http://www.qix.net/~pheonix/decss.html
http://www.ratol.fi/~asiipola
http://www.reapers.org
http://www.redgnatt.homestead.com
http://www.redrival.com/chimx/computers.html
http://www.robotslave.net
http://www.rpi.edu/~jettea/dvd.html
http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~marsie
http://www.scwc.net/DeCSS
http://www.sealteamsix.com/phagan
http://www.sk3tch.com/freedecss
http://www.smackfu.com/decss
http://www.spin.ch/~rca/decss
http://www.stanford.edu/~drumz/decss
http://www.stupendous.org
http://www.subcor.com
http://www.swcp.com/~ampere
http://www.tar.hu/decss
http://www.teamnismo.com/2600
http://www.underwhelm.org/decss
http://www.users.on.net/johnm/DeCSS
http://www.uwm.edu/~zachkarp
http://www.vent-soft.com/dvd
http://www.vexed.net/CSS
http://www.visi.com/~adept/liberty
http://www.vulgar.net/dvd
http://www.warren-wilson.edu/~echerry/dvd
http://www.webnx.com/tuna
http://www.webzsite.com/decss
http://www.wizardworkshop.com
http://www.wolfpaw.net/~decss
http://www.worldcity.nl/~frank/dvd
http://www.wwcn.org/~grit/free
http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/dvd
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rasch/dvd
http://www.zeal.net/~pyro/DeCSS
http://www.zip.com.au/~zzz/dvd
http://www.zone.ee/DeCSS
http://www3.50megs.com/dvd4free
Who Wants To Be a Criminal? (Score:3)
By providing a link to this [24.42.105.140], this [24.42.105.140], or even this [24.42.105.140], I'm committing an injurious act to interests in the state of California.
Never mind [24.42.105.140] that I legally purchased every single one [2600.com] of my DVDs. Never mind that I legally purchased the necessary hardware [24.42.105.140] to play those DVDs, and that the DVD CCA got their cut from my purchases. Never mind that DeCSS [24.42.105.140] "circumvents" CSS the same way entering my password "circumvents" the
By aiding and abetting an open source programmer [24.42.105.140], I'm working to steal the intellectual property of Hollywood? I injured consumer electronics and computer manufacturers in California (whose products I legally purchased in order to be able to use the software player LiVid and the CSS decrypter DeCSS)?
If I have, then come get me .
Don't sweat it . . . (Score:3)
And in such a scenario, credibility is EVERYTHING.
When my opponents misstate the truth, they open avenues I never had before, and give me ways to win even when I have lost. Indeed, when you have a strong case, this is the greatest risk: learning to constrain yourself from overreaching.
This is cause for cheer. Relax, and look forward to reading the reply brief.
Free Speech for Programmers and New DeCSS Mirror (Score:3)
If you can't provide a mirror for DeCSS yourself, perhaps you could at least show your support by displaying or linking to the DeCSS Support Ribbon [goingware.com]. You can display it on your page, served by my server, with the following line of HTML:
<img src="http://goingware.com/decss/DVDRibbon.gif" alt="DeCSS Support Ribbon" width="85" height="138">
Remember folks, this isn't just about being able to watch movies anywhere you want on any OS you want. It's about being free from official government repression for speaking your mind, and if this case stands our precious freedom will suffer greatly for it - not freedom to consume products, but freedom to live as people with human rights, safe from official retribution for holding an opinion.
While Jack Valenti and the MPAA may be violating antitrust law and established Supreme Court precedents of Fair Use, Judge Kaplan is the far worse offender for having violated his oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States of America.
Hey MPAA (Score:3)
Personally, I really don't care to have my work go to support these assholes. I might have to roll my own version of the GPL which specifically disallows anyone directly working for an MPAA related studio from using my code. It might even stand up in court if the UCITA catches on in more places.
Now I'm off to see if I can find someone who has access to the Lexus Nexus to dig up some background dirt on some Hollywood lawyers...
Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:3)
I mean honestly it's the middle of the night and I was able to come up with those just off the top of my head. I get the feeling I am feeding a troll here but I just can't stop myself. Must be a good troll...
Anyway about this part: But, let's not talk drugs: it's too controversial. Let's talk politics -- or, rather, not being allowed to be political. Did you know that a third of the US population can't name a single first-amendment right? That'd include some biggies, like "freedom of speech" and "freedom to peaceably assemble."
That is indeed sad but it doesn't mean we are not being allowed to be political, it means we are generally stupid and poorly informed. You are drawing the wrong conclusion. The government is not engaged in a campaign to hide the constitution or anything like that, it's just that no one cares anymore...
Re:Fucking Morons. (Score:3)
Never.
That's why that law is such a joke.
--
Perjury (Score:3)
Malicious prosecution applies (Score:3)
No, "malicious prosecution" applies in a civil proceeding, too. It refers to the case being prosecuted maliciously, not the defendant. What you are thinking of, by the way, is "abuse of process."
I agree with your legal analysis of the jurisdiction question, but this is certainly not malicious prosecution. There is a huge difference in collecting for a tort from someone who knows he is wrong as distinct from someone who merely happens to be wrong.
The pleading on Cryptome (opposing the motion to quash for lack of jurisdiction) is quite strange. One of the issues here is not simply multiplicity of proceedings, but an actual multiplicity of laws. This goes to the heart of the Interstate Commerce Clause. That is, suppose someone in Texas takes an action which is legal in Texas and illegal in California? The pleading essentially asserts that an aggrieved party in California would have the right to call the party in Texas into the state courts of California to answer for the action. That would be very, very dangerous. Insterstate commerce would grind to an abrupt halt if such a practice were to be allowed.
grr, argh (Score:3)
Because people with money are somehow more believable, more respectable, more legit that the rest of us.
We need some established, filthy rich, vocal support to counter this crap. That, and perjury charges...
My mom is not a Karma whore!
Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:3)
The "abuse" at the hands of the Philidelphia police on the GOP protestors is a notorious hoax. A horde of reporters at the convention interviewed people in the jail and couldn't find anything worse than "I bumped my head entering the jail wagon"
Your whole post reeks of sophistry... You say "1/3 of Americans can't name a single 1st amendment right" -- I'll put 20$ on it that the question was "Name the 1st Amendment." instead of "Have you ever heard of Freedom of Speech?" Typical way to influence statistics.
As is the 1/5th incarceration rate, and 1/3 for black. Bull-fucking-shit. I think the arrest rate for blacks is 1/10, and for whites quite a bit lower than that. Not considering recalcitrant offenders is a complelety blockheaded way of saying 1/5th of Americans will be behind bars. And you know what? A number of people get arrested that don't get imprisoned. My roommate was arrested and fingerprinted for being drunk in public, but was not even brought before a judge.
The rising incarceration rate, at least in California, is the three strikes law, which imprisons those who would normally walk. This points to more enforcement than more crime.
I think all my sophistry alerts went off on your post... even saying that "Alchohol kills 6x as many people as illegal drugs" is complete bullshit, since you aren't considering the facts that more people drink than use drugs. Thats like me saying that there is discrimination of people with grey hair because more of them die of heart attacks than people with dark hair...
Pfft.
Perjury not defamation (Score:3)
Reading all the comments, a defamation case faces some pretty fatal problems. I think we should turn our attention to perjury - also difficult, but plausible. Garbus and co (working on another case) have screeds and screeds of documents from the MPAA, which include selected "incriminating" logs of the community which (despite the bias) almost certainly include enough information about the community to be good evidence. The question is - can those documents be accessed for such purposes? (My suspicion is no).
The MPAA has clearly done enough (one-sided) research into open-source that they do know better, and there will be documentation to that effect somewhere. How can we go about finding it? Is anyone with access to MPAA documentation (or working for the MPAA) able and willing to "leak" such a document?
They boasted of the thousands of pages of information they had that was written by the community. That almost certainly means we're talking perjury, if we can only get our hands on their documents.
Annoyed by DVD-CCA Lawyers? Write & tell em (Score:3)
Jared Bobrow [mailto]
Robert G. Sugarman [mailto]
Jeffrey L. Kessler [mailto] (there are a couple of others whose emails are not listed - I'd guess they are:
Christopher Cox [mailto]
Edward Burke [mailto]
Jonathan Shapiro [mailto]
Why not write to them and let them know what you think their slander?. Or you could fax 'em on (650) 854-3713 or (212) 310-8007.
Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:3)
What you're saying only holds water if the US states are sovereign nations rather than local government. The sovereignty of the states has never been more than a polite legal fiction, a fortiori since 'prox 1865.
Panama, mentioned elsewhere in this thread, is similarly not genuinely sovereign - it, and assorted other post-colonial flyspecks, are as sovereign as their former rulers and/or powerful neighbours let them be and not a whit more.
Now, if someone wanted to sue me, British Citizen, in California, the most they'd get out of me is a polite letter to the judge pointing out that I ain't submitting to the jurisdiction.
Re:Well if you follow that logic... (Score:4)
I wonder if Hollywood realises that they're accessories after the fact.
Arrogance. (Score:4)
So you have this MASSIVE decentralized movement consisting of between 80 and 300 thousand people, depending on who's figures you go by, and they keep a low profile. Sure, you get a few lawsuits here, alittle press there, but considering the magnitude of what we are doing, it's suprising this hasn't been making the headlines for weeks on end - it's far bigger than the OJ Simpson trial, the Year 2000 New Year's Bash, or, well.. any event since the start of the millenium.
No, I think they're strutting around, being the pompous asses that they are, and they have no clue that they're opening the pandora's box of copyright issues - if there has ever been an organized attempt to take down corporations, this is it. Demonstrations in Seattle and the NAFTA protests before that pale in comparison to the damage a successful attack on IP would do in this country. And rather than taking us seriously, they're calling us a bunch of immature punk kids with a bent on going against the grain and who have a keyboard. That is not at all who they are dealing with. They are dealing with the Borg - a decentralized movement with no leaders, and a common cause. How the hell are they going to combat an idea? Imprison every developer in the world? Who will keep the e-commerce infrastructure going, or the "dot commies"?
Heh, it's the other way around guys, you're being a bunch of arrogant suits and you're about to get your ass handed back to you by a bunch of hippies who do nothing but convert caffeine into code all day. I'm going to love watching this..
Shouldn't OSI sue over this? (Score:4)
Open Source/Free Software nitpicking aside, Open Source -- ahem -- Open Source(tm) is a trademark of the Open Source(tm) Initiative. To say that the Open Source(tm) movement actively encourages criminal activity is defamatory and actionable and demonstrably does harm to the Open Source(tm) trademark and the interests of the businesses that endorse it.
At least, I know if a bunch of Hollywood lawyers called a press conference to accuse freakin' IBM of actively encouraging criminal activity, seismographs on the other side of the planet would be able to detect the rumbling herd of bulk-cloned attorneys pouring from the sluice gates of the vast monolith that is Big Blue.
So maybe the OSI can get their lawyers -- uh, lawyer -- to get off his duff and act like a real corporate attorney.
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Re:Won the Battle, may Loose the War (Score:4)
Doing what it takes to make this happen, though, would cost them dearly. Basically, they would never be able to have general-purpose programmable computers be used to play movies. Because if they did, any mass-distributed player would be vulnerable to RE.
As long as they will allow personal computers to be used to playing movies, legislation like DMCA (and UCITA too) will be the only thing they can do to keep competing players off the market. They're also eventually going to have to repeal a bunch of anti-trust legislation too.
OTOH, I agree that if they decide to bite the bullet and not allow their stuff to be played on personal computers (as we currently know them), where there is an encrypted stream all the way to the monitor, then they can keep students from using Schilder's List excerpts for their holocaust reports, unless the student will settle for an analog sample.
Don't count on that dependance forever. They currently have strong influence over the currently popular means of distribution (theaters and rental stores), but there is this little thing called The Internet that will eventually pose a threat. Since that fateful day that I downloaded an MP3 in order to hear a band that I would otherwise never get to hear, I have bought thousands of dollars worth of music, much of it from non-RIAA labels.
In the MPAA-vs-2600 trial, MPAA made a big deal about codecs like Divx that might some day be used to pirate MPAA movies. And these video codecs are indeed a threat, but not because of piracy, but because they can be used to compete with Hollywood without relying on the means of distribution that Hollywood controls.
Geez, I've seen ads on Comedy Central for little movies to download via The Internet. In a few years, that sort of thing could be quite mainstream and not-so-gimmicky. It's not so much that I wouldn't want to see Star Wars, as it is that there could be so many non-Hollywood movies competing with Star Wars. And if Holywood were to face competition like that, who is to say that the prime movers of entertainment would be willing to make less profit by staying with the dinosaurs? If big already-established names like George Lucas are already guaranteed a large audience, then why shouldn't they get out of the system and go indy, so they have even more control and profit?
Time is on our side and Hollywood is going to lose market share.
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Re:Then again.... (Score:4)
Don't be so skeptical; Hollywood has many highly paid people whose job it is to consult on computer issues. I mean, just look at the wonderful film "The Net" and you'll see that they obviously have done their homework.
They never quit. (Score:4)
BTW, Im wearing my illegal copyleft T-Shirt right now.
Re:When is it libelous? (Score:4)
http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for
"The advocates of ``open source software'' tried to make it a trademark, saying this would enable them to prevent misuse. The attempt went awry when the application was allowed to lapse in 1999; thus, the legal status of ``open source'' is the same as that of ``free software'': there is no legal constraint on using it. "
Terminology. (Score:4)
The quote in the article sounds more like a description of the warez community.
When I hear people say "all software should be free" I think of the Free Software movement.
When I hear people say "free sofware can sometimes be a lot better than commercial sofware" I think of the Open Source movement.
Of these three movements, it's rather ironic that they should choose to slam Open Source, since it's the most conservative of the three. One is apt to believe that businessmen protecting their commercial interests are conservatives. OTOH, Hollywood is actually full of liberals.
We may be witnessing them being torn between their liberalism and their desire to make a buck.
Actually, this falls in line with something I've been saying for a while: "The left doesn't know what's right anymore".
For example, you used to be able to count on the left supporting labor. But now you've got Bill Clinton and Al Gore supporting trade with China. That's certainly confused a lot of trade unionists.
Now we've got the Free Software movement, certainly a creature of the left, being opposed by Hollywood liberals. Conservatives, take note. Here is an opportunity to divide and conquer.
Re:Fucking Morons. (Score:4)
Legal filings are specifically exempted from liability of allegation in virtually all jurisdictions inheriting from British common law. The theory is that this prevents the target of a lawsuit crushing the plaintiff with their greater legal resources and so forth.
In practice, this means they can say Open Source advocates are crooks and goatfuckers if they feel like it
History of The Baddies in Hollywood film (Score:4)
1970's - The Red Commie Threat.
1980's - Those evil arab nations that sell us our oil and have corrupt military leaders.
1990's - Drug runners (with links to evil S. American nations with corrupt military leaders).
Late 90's - Those terrible two-dimensional Terrorists whose sole purpose in life is to kill as many Americans as possible. Why this is, we're not told (perhaps we might sympathise with them?). They're just born that way apparently.
Coming up next - those evil computer thieves and hackers who wield greater threat to your lives than all the above combined.
In most movies to date, hackers have usually been the good guys, and bad hackers are usually just opposition for the good hackers to defeat. Movies in which a Joe Average hero is besieged on all sides by a foe with unlimited resources have usually had the foe played by things like intelligence services, corrupt institutions and the like.
I suspect that as Hollywood execs in their isolated circles hear more and more about how great a threat is posed by these computer people, and as the net remains a sexy background for movies, but familiar to more people, we may start to see more movies in which we get to play the archvillain, whether we want to or not. And we'll have powers we never dreamed of (like hacking Russian spy satellites in order to take telephoto pictures of your credit card number as you pay for something, or your wife undressing*. Actually, they would have to be US satellites because Hollywood is currently dedicated to the idea that all Russian technology is stuck in the 50's)
Hmmm, writing this incredibly 2d summary of Hollywood movies yet having it so aptly sum up so many movies sorta rams home how numbingly stupid the films are.
Harlequin - Archvillain for hire...
hire details [geocities.com]
(And offended at the idea of working for hollywood against my will
*Telephoto pictures of your wife undressing, not pictures of you paying your wife to undress...
Re:Slander (Score:4)
Suppose that each individual author who has contributed open source code files a civil lawsuit against this attorney for slander. These are not frivolous suits; he HAS slandered us. Fighting one law suit is difficult and expensive enough; fighting a few thousand is a practical impossibility.
What we have in our favor is numbers - this is a way to use those numbers to fight the big money on the other side.
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The law, 100's of millions of lines of code - not one line of which has ever been tested to see if it works [
Dangerous Resource (Score:4)
Totally correct. The Internet is a dangerous resource, because you cannot control it. Someone in another country has rights that you don't have control over, because they have different laws.
The result? They sue, to try to regain control because big business sees people's speech as damaging their profits.
Just out of curiosity, does anyone know any sites that provide movies copied from DVDs using DeCSS? I've seen a lot of avi's and mpgs copied from VHS, and a few copied from DVDs using the older copiers, but I've never seen anyone post or provide (IRC, Gnutella, etc) a _good_ copy of a DVD. They're just too big!
Even admitting that I don't search really hard for .vob files, how many can there be? They're too big to download easily, too big to keep many, and too rare to show up in the many places I visit.
So where the hell is the $4 billion dollars of loss (or whatever they're claiming) coming from?
Jeff
Faulty Reasoning (Score:5)
Conclusion: Open Source is about publishing other peoples copyrighted materials on the internet without permission or compensation to the author.
Isn't this like saying....
Fact: Some filmmakers use narcotics in violation of US law.
Conclusion: Filmmaking is about advocating and using illegal narcotics.
Re:RIAA and MPAA (Score:5)
Which would continue what has been a generational shift away from group-think, when three channels were enough for anyone, towards individuality where 100 channels are no longer enough. The Internet clearly has the capability to increase the number of channels, to the point where if I don't like YOUR reality-based show I'll just produce my own.
The next question is how long society will tolerate this before reverting back to conformity and three "channels" again. If our only common experience is that we were lied to by the same politicians and corporations, then when a real crisis occurs, our fractured society will urgently look to find commonality wherever it can, including in its entertainment.
For more on this topic, please see The Fourth Turning by Strauss and Howe.
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Re:Fucking Morons. (Score:5)
Legal filings are specifically exempted from liability of allegation in virtually all jurisdictions inheriting from British common law. The theory is that this prevents the target of a lawsuit crushing the plaintiff with their greater legal resources and so forth.
Let's not forget that malicious prosecution is still illegal. If their lawsuit is baseless and the entire intent is to harass or defame me, then it's unlikely this exemption will apply. Also, court filings are usually made under the penalty of perjury. Submitting deliberately false filings to the effect that I'm a goatfucker when they know I'm not could land them with fines or jail. Again, for the protection of the little guy.
Re:Well if you follow that logic... (Score:5)
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Well if you follow that logic... (Score:5)
*sarcasm mode off*
I wonder if Hollywood realizes that this is bigger than they think.
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Someone please pass the L.A.R.T.... (Score:5)
... I've got a good target to whack.
I'm going to leave the Open Source slurs aside, since they're not really relevant (though, as one previous poster pointed out, they hurt the MPAA since it's a direct loss of credibility).
They're misquoting (or should I say, misusing) the case law precedent. The case laws covers only:
Also, I'd like to point out one further thing that I find unusual of this whole thing:
This is a civil case about trade secrets. In order to prove a trade secret case, you have to show proof that the accused gained information about the secret through unlawful means. As of right now, reverse engineering is not an illegal means, no matter what the shrink-wrap says on a product. Right now, shrink-wrap licenses are unenforcable and invalid, period.
Also, the DCMA doesn't apply to this case. Now, depending on the rulings about the DCMA, making LiViD might be illegal, but the methods of discovering how to make LiViD (that is, discovering how CSS worked) are not illegal, even under a strict DCMA ruling.
This case is strictly about reverse-engineering a trade secret, and the MPAA has absolutely no leg to stand on, other than perhaps having more money to blow on lawyers.
Fundamentally, I'd counter-sue for malicious prosecution (that's the criminal law term, there's a civil law equivalent, but I can't remember the phrase), since the suit is prima facia invalid.
Fuck them with a red hot poker.
-Erik
Usually I support the legal system (Score:5)
You do _NOT_ get jurisdiction over every single human being in the entire world merely because they post something on the 'net.
If you do, then we're in trouble when a more repressive regime than the US attempts to indict us in the US for crimes against their nation elsewhere.
This is seeing the trees but not the forest, people. You get jurisdiction over someone by _actively_ doing something involving the forum state. This could be something as simple as putting your information into interstate commerce - but the idea that putting something on the net, for free, is in interstate commerce probably violates a half dozen treaties, not to mention the entire concept of jurisdiction.
(IANAL, usual rules of don't bother fact checking this because I haven't either. And don't rely on this for anything - consult a real lawyer before fighting a megacorporation with tentacles all over the world just like HYDRA)
Fucking Morons. (Score:5)
This would be unbelievable if we hadn't already seen just how mindless the MPAA and CCA have been in the past.
I just skimmed the brief, and it could probably be considered defamation on the FSF, lots of people like Linus, ESR, various people like Bob Young, even Tim O'Reilly . . . Basically, it accuses anyone who claims to be involved with the `open source' movement of supporting theft of intellectual property. This might be my non-legal mind misunderstanding what they were saying, but it's pretty damned blatant, as far as I'm concerned.
I really think some high profile people should sue the MPAA over this particular piece of fiction. It's incredibly insulting.
On another note, if they really do think this about the open source world, it would explain why they're being so paranoid about us - they seem to think we really are out to get them, however we can.
Personally I'm not, and I don't think you could say that this particular group of people really agrees on anything enough to say that we're out to get someone . . .
In any case, this is an incredibly dumb document, put out by a group that, it is becoming increasingly clear, is completely disconnected from anythin that remotely resembles the real world. I think the MPAA should be taken out the back and shot (metaphorically speaking, of course . . . ;-) They're becoming more dangerous than useful, IMHO.
himi
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Re:Usually I support the legal system (Score:5)
Snort.
What country do you live in? I refer you to the case where the United States invaded Panama, apprehended Manuel Noriega, and brought him back to the US where he was convicted of crimes against US law while leading Panama, a sovereign nation.
Do you really think being in another state is going to be more than a minor inconvenience?
What they're really saying is ...... (Score:5)
Kind of like before the invention of the radio .....
Here's a clickable link to EFF DVD Legal Fund (Score:5)
Some people, like Eric Corley, are acting by defying the MPAA and risking financial ruin if they lose the DeCSS case.
Some, like the Electronic Frontier Foundation [eff.org] are working to preserve our rights in the networked era by defending brave folks like Corley.
Even with attorneys working pro-bono, mounting a legal defense is terribly expensive (just think of the cost of long-distance calls and plane fare for the participants). One way you can make a difference is by joining the EFF, which you can do with a credit card at the following link:
https://www.eff.org/support/joineff.html [eff.org]
(You can also mail in a check.)
If you do nothing else to work for the cause of justice in the DeCSS case, at least join the EFF. It will only take a few minutes, and you can give what you're comfortable with.
Here's a clickable link to EFF DVD Legal Fund (Score:5)
https://www.eff.org/support/joineff.html [eff.org]
And if you want to read about why this matters, click here:
http://www.goingware.com/decss [goingware.com]
It's not about watching movies on Linux anymore.
It's about your right to say what you want in a free society. Eric Corley is a member of the press, and 2600's web site [2600.com] is his publication. Judge Kaplan has just permanently enjoined Corley from practicing unrestrained journalism.
If To Accuse Somebody... (Score:5)
...at least do it right. Free Software is a "movement". Open Source is just a study in economics.
Time to send the EFF another $100 (Score:5)
I sent them $100 a while ago in a fit of temporary wealth. Maybe it's time to do it again. Yeah, I also bought Copyleft's anti-DVDCCA shirt (someone at work actually thought my posession of it was illegal without even caring whether such a law was just -- scary. Since I'm not in Judge Kaplan's judisdiction, I'm sure this isn't the case.)
Better yet, perhaps it's time to send, oh, I don't know $20 or $30 a month to the EFF on a regular basis. Anyone know if they accept ongoing contributions via credit card?
FWIF, I don't own a DVD player (and won't buy one unless I can view movies with free software), don't collect MP3s of copyright works, and will actually purchase a CD for one song, if I like it (though I'd prefer if the artist got more of my money for it.) Heck, I've purchased some CDs because I liked the cover art! (And have usually liked the music to boot.) I've boycotted movies (and amazon.com because of their stupid patent) for about six months now (not perfectly -- it's hard with a 7 year old, but cutting consumption is the important thing).
The frightening thing about this is that MPJDGI (Most People Just Don't Get It). They equate the internet as some kind of "interactive TV" in terms of "serving content", instead of a place where you get and share what you wish. An ignorant mob is a dangerous mob.
Also, the issues are so obvbious to "us" that often we don't even realize that "they" don't get it. Ever explain something to a wanna-be code jockey, only to have them program some real garbage? That's how dealing with "the masses" on these issues is.
While the DVD CCA, and MPAA have legitimate beefs against copyright violation, I fear that a great deal of baby is going to get thrown out with that particular brand of bathwater before this issue settles down.
Rene S. Hollan
DVDCCA.org uses Apache (Score:5)
Reverse Engineering not illegal under Calif. TSA (Score:5)
MPAA is missing something: the California Trade Secrets Act provides a complete defense:
They say:
And here is the defense, at eff.org [eff.org]:
CALIFORNIA CIVIL CODE : SECTION 3426.1
3426. This title may be cited as the Uniform Trade Secrets Act.
3426.1. As used in this title, unless the context requires otherwise:
(a) "Improper means" includes theft, bribery, misrepresentation, breach or inducement of a breach of a duty to maintain secrecy, or espionage through electronic or other means. Reverse engineering or independent derivation alone shall not be considered improper means.
(b) "Misappropriation" means:
(1) Acquisition of a trade secret of another by a person who knows or has reason to know that the trade secret was acquired by improper means; or
(2) Disclosure or use of a trade secret of another without express or implied consent by a person who:
(A) Used improper means to acquire knowledge of the trade secret; or
(B) At the time of disclosure or use, knew or had reason to know that his or her knowledge of the trade secret was:
(i) Derived from or through a person who had utilized improper means to acquire it;
(ii) Acquired under circumstances giving rise to a duty to maintain its secrecy or limit its use; or
(iii) Derived from or through a person who owed a duty to the person seeking relief to maintain its secrecy or limit its use; or
(C) Before a material change of his or her position, knew or had reason to know that it was a trade secret and that knowledge of it had been acquired by accident or mistake.
(c) "Person" means a natural person, corporation, business trust, estate, trust, partnership, limited liability company, association, joint venture, government, governmental subdivision or agency, or any other legal or commercial entity.
(d) "Trade secret" means information, including a formula, pattern, compilation, program, device, method, technique, or process, that:
(1) Derives independent economic value, actual or potential, from not being generally known to the public or to other persons who can obtain economic value from its disclosure or use; and
(2) Is the subject of efforts that are reasonable under the circumstances to maintain its secrecy.
[Emphasis added. So not only is reverse engineering perfectly legal under California trade secret law, it is also perfectly legal under the DMCA right now, and in Norway, where the reverse engineering took place. Send check to EFF.org now!]
Re:Jurisdiction (Score:5)
As is often noted, "one who intentionally shoots a bullet into a state is as subject to the judicial jurisdiction of [that] state ... as if he had actually fired the bullet in the state."
What's so stupid about them providing examples like this is that it ignores one of the most basic principles of the Internet - that it is an individual user that "pulls" information to himself. The publisher of information doesn't distribute to *anywhere* in the world except the server on which he or she places it.
RIAA and MPAA (Score:5)
I'm getting kind of tired of this.
The Entertainment industry wants us to consume but they want to control how and where we do this consumption. I keep thinking of the money fleeced from consumers by the invention of the CD - it was supposed to cut costs of album production, and it did, from ~$10 per to ~$1 per - but did the recording industry reduce prices to consumers?
Even now, the sludge-brains at the record companies are offering music on the internet for - surprise - the same price you'd pay for the CD at Wal-Mart. Gee - I have to sit through a download and then burn a CD and I get no cover art, no liner notes, no CD case, shit, I even have to provide the blank CD and I still have to pay $15 for an album?!
Gnrow!
Yah.
Somehow or another the giants must fall. The gigantic, monolithic, blood-sucking industry that surrounds all popular culture must fall. If it doesn't, freedom will. They can't ever be allowed to tell us what protocols we can use, what software we aren't allowed to own on the assumption that we might put it to illegal use. This cannot be allowed to happen!
There's no need anymore for NBC, Sony Records, United Artists as they stand. The status quo is gone. The future of artistic endeavor has to be: you put it up, you're honest and good, people visit your site and pull it down. No record companies, only music reviewers. No movie industry, just reviewers, etc. Artists and the trusted portals will be the champions, dissemination will be ubiquitous.
What this really means, of course, is that your Monday morning chat around the water-cooler will be highly eclectic, because there won't be any "Friends" or "Seinfelds" - we'll move in different circles.
I'm getting tired.
That is all.
MjM
Remember One Thing: (Score:5)
The guy's still an idiot, of course, but at least we can understand why.
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