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2600 Staffer Arrested During Republican Convention
from the anyone-watch-the-daily-show-last-week? dept.
Addendum: I find it amusing that people are so pissed about me using Slashdot to editorialize my opinions. I've been doing this for 3 years, why would I stop now? If you want unbiased news, read the mainstream press... look how honest and unbiased their coverage is! We're humans here, with actual opinions and everything. Besides, if I don't get to soapbox once in awhile, wouldn't Slashdot be boring?
I find it amusing that I've recieved pretty much equal mail from democrats (Rah rah! Way to state the case!) and republicans (I will no longer read Slashdot because I don't think you should be allowed to have opinions and obviously your opinions are stupid. And you are stupid too. And I hate you). Both missed the point: I don't like either party (I don't even like parties). But I really detest Bush. And since this is America, I can say that! And you can disagree! Hooray!
Re:Pure Liberal Misinformation (Score:2)
If someone can't afford health care, good food, and safe living conditions, then why the hell are they having children??
First and foremost, it's because they're financially rewarded for doing so. The more children you have, the less tax you pay (if you pay taxes), and the more welfare you receive (if you receive welfare).
Second, it's because American society's view of sexuality is skewed. People are afraid to discuss contraception and abortion openly. Some people (you know who they are) commit terrorist atrocities like killing doctors who perform abortions, or lesser atrocities like harrassing women who visit clinics. Various religious groups (you know who they are) try to enforce their particular moral perversions -- homosexuality is a sin, masturbation is a sin, contraception is a sin, pre-marital sex is a sin, adultery is a sin, prostitution is a sin, ad nauseum -- upon everyone else by buying relevant legislation. Oh, and besides that, they try to prevent children from learning anything about sex.
In an environment like that, is it really a surprise that there are unwanted pregnancies? And that they're carried to term?
Re:More info on the political prisoners in Philly (Score:3)
A lot of people don't know this, but the police standard for using pepper spray is not "violence" or "resistance", but merely "non-compliance". That is, if they tell you to do something, and you don't, they can blast you with the shit. The fact that you are "peaceful" doesn't matter.
This came to the forefront with a videotape of a (greenpeace?) protest in California, where peaceful protesters had their eyelids held open and pepperspray applied directly to their eyeballs with cotton swabs.
What really sucks is that the police are always championing new gadgets as allowing them to use less force. I.e., "We should be allowed to use the Arwen gun / pepperspray / tazer so that we won't have to shoot armed suspects". Sometimes new weapons are used like that, but usually it works the other way: the police are allowed to use more force when they would otherwise have had to resolve the situation through other means (waiting people out, or the looks-bad-on-tv billyclub).
Re:Bitching About Politics (Score:3)
because what he wrote was not "views". It was
- Flamebait
- Troll
- Offtopic
- Overrated
and the complaints should be considered as moderation. If he had written something halfway Inciteful, Informative, or even just reasoned, folks would have had a chance to counter argue. But just to get up and shout "Bush sucks" is what Slashdot is not all about.Re:Bitching About Politics (Score:2)
things I've learned from /. (Score:2)
2) no matter how much you hate AC's, you eventually act like one (Hi CmdrTaco! *Waves)
3) we all like RMS, ESR, CmdrTaco, and other zealots... untill they disagree with us.
4) you can always tell the ones that look like they're going to lose an arguement, because they hit the lowest.
the moral of this post?
you're not going to agree with everyone. deal with it.
you're a commie, she's a socialist, that guy over there is a conservative, that cute girl is a democrat. that guy with the big muscles is a libertarian. the guy picking flowers is of the green party.
my opinion stinks like a big festering sewer treatment plant.
your's does too.
now shut the fuck up, and get along with the rest of the world.
thank you for your time.
You are NOT throwing yout vote away! (Score:2)
In a sense you're right: you must vote for one party or the other. Either the party that says that government is most fit to run your life, or the party that says that YOU are most fit to run your life. Do you thing that G.W. Bush and Al Gore are best fit to run your life?
Re:Well said, Taco (Score:2)
Vote Libertarian! (Score:3)
There was a big writeup about him on Smokedot [smokedot.org] a few weeks back: http://smokedot.org/article.pl? sid=00/07/26/0014226 [smokedot.org].
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this is turning into WTO all over again. (Score:5)
Something changed in America after the WTO riots. Somehow the police think they have carte blanche to treat citizens like animals for utilizing their right of free assembly and free speech. I can't see the difference between how China is treating members of the Falun Gong and whats happening in Philadelphia (and what did happen) in Seattle.
We argue and fight for our online rights, but those online rights wont mean anything if we cant use those same rights in public, in the 'real' world.
Re:You dont like bush or gore? Vote Dammit (Score:3)
The concept of illegal plants and animals is obnoxious and ridiculous.
I'm amazed (Score:4)
Slashdot is not a news source. Slashdot compiles a bunch of links to stories that are of interest to the community that visits here. It doesn't, as a rule, have more than a few sentences about what the link points to. How is that reporting?
The entire point of this place is discussion. A huge ball of geeks spouting their opinions and having some level of intelligent discussion. Why should CT be exempt from that? He created the damn thing, I'd think he could lob his opinion out with the rest of you, eh?
For a group of "geeks" or "elite linux gurus" and generally "smart guys", you are either a load of hypocrites or lack any form of common sense. If you were told to withold your opinion in these discussions from now on, you'd rant and rave for days. When CT volunteers his, you cry like children. This place has never professed to be a geek-inhabited bastion of journalism. It's a crew of opinionated nerds...get used to it.
Interestingly enough, the above is my opinion and doesn't reflect those of
I'm proud of my police dept. (Score:4)
"Freedom of Speach" isn't an absolute right; you can be sued for libel, and of course you can't shout the proverbial "fire in the theatre". Similiarly, I think most Americans would argee that the right to assembly does not give you the right to hold hostage a million people by shutting down access routes out of downtown Philadelphia (center city as we call it here), as some protestors did attempt to.
I think the authorities were more than generous in allowing protestors who had intentionally not applied for a permit (to show their so called dissidence) but were willing reasonable enough and could be negotiated with, - to march down a 4 mile stretch of one of the busiest Philly streets, Broad st. They also received full Police protection from traffic that was not expecting to find the street closed.
Most of the protestors who were arrested were not part of an organization with a noble cause. As admitted by several in TV interviews they were there for the sole purpose of disrupting "the event". These scoundrels who would assert that they have a right to block major intersections by overturning dumpsters in the street deserve to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and have clearly overstepped any constitutionally protected rights.
American kids today have a got a lot to learn about political dissidence. Some of the best examples can be seen abroad. Take Natal Sheransnky, a Russian Jew who during the 70s hijacked a plane to bring attention to the plight of Soviet Jewery. He rotted in Jail for about 10 years, but he became a martyr and it benefitted his cause. - and if you think US jails are bad...
My point being, that if you plan on breaking the law to bring attention to your cause (or lack of one) then you must be willing to pay the price - be a martyr. The kids in jail here are a bunch of whining babies. They think that they should be allowed to get away with vandalizing property, assaulting police, and other offenses because they were "protesting"? Boohoo, in Philly we actually enforce our laws.
Protest Arrests and my politcal $.02 (Score:4)
There are a number of instances where organizers were singled out and arrested in a preemptive manner. This is probably why the staff member from 2600 was arrested. You see, the organizers all carry the Nextel phones, because they are cheap and can conference call. Read a number of instances where people were arrested, not read any rights, detained for longer than legal times, not told what they were being charged with, (and here is the shocker) because they happened to be walking by with a Nextel phone.
Do the protesters have valid concerns? Yes, I think so. In Philidelphia, it appears you can walk on civil rights, and get away with it with out so much as a mention from the mainstream media. My favorite site has been Tom Tommorrow's photo shoot [freespeech.org] of the Republican convention (Tom Tommorrow draws This Modern World [thismodernworld.com].) The highlight in my mind is the part where you have a picture of Sam Donaldson sitting bored complaining about the lack of news, while protesters flooded the streets outside.
Over the past 10 years the Democrats have moved vastly to the right, and the Republicans have moved to the left. What we have right now are two parties that quibble over minor details while agreeing on the big ones. It truely has become a monoparty system. The term "Republicrat" is popping up more and more.
Bill Mahr put it best on his show, Politically Incorrect, "We already have compassionate conservatives. They're called Democrats." This is very true. There really is no voice for the progressive these days--or so the media would have us believe. The fact is, that Ralph Nader [votenader.org] is a liberal progressive--and a damn smart person. He is the reason we have some semblance of auto safety standards. He graduated magna cum laude from Princeton in 1955, and from Harvard Law School in 1958. Since then he has tirelessly devoted his life to public service. The guy makes over $300,000/yr and lives off of $25,000--because he gives the rest to civic projects.
More importantly, the guy is way ahead of all the other third party candidates, is on the ballot in 30 states already (including Montana
But, the media has chosen to ignore him.
So rather than throw my vote away by voting for one of the major parties, I'm going to do something this year. I'm going to do my part to get the Green Party recognized so that the Democrats can never again say,"You have to vote for us, we're not Newt Gingrich's party."
-Peter
Voting for the "least worst choice" is still going downhill. Make your vote actually count. Vote Nader [votenader.org]
What about the "inanimate carbon rod" (Score:3)
Now that's a carbon rod I would vote for!
-rt-
Re:this is turning into WTO all over again. (Score:3)
Your thinking is quite logical. The only flaw is that it is not true.
In Seattle, the demonstrators who faced the greatest police violence were the pacifists. The morning of the protest, the police attempted a street clearing by tear-gasing and pepper-spraying at random. This was not successful. It was only in the afternoon that anarchist "black bloc" members and local youth wound-up rampaging behind the pacifist lines.
Whether the cops could have stopped the anarchists or not isn't very relevant. They weren't trying too hard. The pacifists were in fact extremely upset at this.
If you READ the 2600 article, you will notice that the staff member was arrest while walking do the street talking on a cell-phone. And that this had come from a very specific effort to target people who had said things the police didn't like.
We're talking overt political repression, you think?
So, two parts to a good theory - true premises and correct deduction. You fall down on the true premises side.
as a philly resident... (Score:4)
(I live 30 mins north of philly, so thanks to local news, we got a bit more information regarding what happened than most of you)
I don't think that the Philly police did anything wrong at all during the convention. If anything, they deserve a lot of credit for how they handled all this. The local police did A LOT of research (including flying up to Seattle during the riots) and lots and lots of training for weeks before the convention.
The so-called peaceful protesters were really not so peaceful. The police (thanks to tips from the secret services) found all kinds of stuff, ranging from explosives, to lethal spiders, snakes, etc that the protesters were planning to release in the crowds. Not to mantion protesters were tying piano wire across roadways to try to trip horses (and potentially injure them). The list of outrageous things they did goes on and on.
As far as the prison bad treatment, well, it seems that again, it was the police that was abused. Apparently, the so called peaceful protesters were throwing feces and urine at the guards/cops - while chanting and screaming all night long. No offense, but with that kind of behavior, bot only do they not deserve any kind of civilized treatment, but they deserve to be in lockup for the rest of their stays in that prison. That being said, they were fed, INCLUDING those with special diet requirement like lactose intolerance (they received peanut butter sandwich instead of cheese sandwich).
Lastly, I sincerely doubt that this guy was in fact walking down the street with his cell phone - but if it is in fact the case, I'd like to think that it is an isolated incident/mistake for which the cops should apologize. There were tons of actually peaceful protests all around the city, and none of them were brutalized or anything, although the Philly police did keep an eye on all of these protests.
All in all the Philly police did a great job, and reacted VERY WELL under extreme pressure.
As far as the remarks about GW Bush, well, as an H1B worker, the american politics don't interest me a whole lot but I will say this: the alternative doesn't seem a whole lot better (if at all better).
PS: I am from Belgium, you should see the kind of crowd control we use when we have violent protesters (which we do a lot since Brussels is the headquarters of NATO and EU) - the tactics used by the Philly police is relatively mild compared to what we do.
3 VIEWS BIG BUSINESS THE MEDIA (Score:3)
________
Vote Bush for war and economic despair:
Are the views Bush supports really his own? Can anyone truly feel right voting for a leader that was brought up in a wealthy environment lacking all discipline and responsibility? Is he a leader and universal role model or a self-indulgent, spoiled playboy riding on the coattails of his father?
Vote Gore to stay the same:
Gore is a diligent and intelligent man with a great amount of political experience. Very comfortable with his political position, any new or significant changes are doubtful.
Vote Nader if you actually give a shit:
Nader is a self made man who has taken a personal initiative to make changes that will benefit others. Take a look at his web site and his up front and blunt views. www.votenader.com [votenader.com] Make a difference.
The Media and Big Business:
______________________
The mainstream media would never present this story to the American public. A much larger and more powerful CORPORATION owns every media business. Corporations love Republicans because they cater to tax cuts and the rich. Decisions made for the general public are not those produced by the greedy but by those who have the moral strength to think of another's well being before that of their own.
Big Brother is not the government. Big Brother = Big Business
Re:bad journalism (Score:3)
b) I happened to follow a link to www.time.com, which does pretend to be a 'straight' news site, and the article headlines are so biased that at first I thought I had found the page of the RNC. Do we expect
c) Though I probably would have (tried to) pretend more impartiality than CT did, I'm really glad an overt political post came up on
At the very least, this will be more interesting than the drivel the mainstream media gave us last week, and will continue to give us for the next three months. I wish
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Re:Abusing slashdot to push your political agenda? (Score:5)
Of course there were extremists who deserved it, but a lot of folks were protesting peacefully Yeah, Rob, really fucking bright - if you dare express your opinion, you clearly deserve to have your skull bashed in, get sprayed with pepper spray, and then tossed in a cell with 100 other people (standing room only) for 72 hours with no food, little water, and all your rights stripped away from you. Do you even know who was tossed in jail? Do you honestly BELIEVE the garbage you see on ABC (owned by Disney, a major contributor to the RNC) or any of the other networks? They arrested over 450 people - very very few of whom were "violent". Most were practicing non-violent civil disobedience, the sort of stuff Ghandi used. People laying down in the middle of the street is not violent, and does not deserve the usage of pepper spray - but it was done. People who want delegates to be able to see them and know that they do not like what they stand for don't deserve to be arrested for 'criminal tresspass' on a public street - but it was done.
I know this is basically the wrong forum, and I really do not give a rat's ass if my karma is dropped (it's high enough already, thankyouverymuch), but for fuck's sake - does anyone in this world every really think things through anymore?
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Matt Singerman
Re:I'm proud of my police dept. (Score:3)
Also, as has been reported - individuals were arrested NOT for protesting, but for merely carrying a specific brand cell phone! THAT is not a crime (although using some manufacturer's {MS} products should be)!
China merely follows our lead. (Score:4)
Agreed. Both the U.S. and China understand quite well that demonstrations and the appearance of chaos and civil unrest are bad for business. I've talked with Chinese who were in support of the Chinese government's handling of the Tiananmen Square incident--at that time, some ten years ago, China's economy was taking off due to investment from the West. Many corporate eyes were trained on China to see how they would handle the protests. When they saw that they would happily call in the military to quell an otherwise peaceful demonstration, it was clear that it was much safer to invest in China than, say, Russia. And honestly, how could the U.S. in good conscience disagree with their actions after the Kent State murders?
Heavy-handed police tactics are nothing new in the U.S. We sent state militias out to help Pinkerton break strikes at Carnegie Steel, we sent Patton and his cavalry to charge and tear gas the Bonus Army and chase them off D.C. soil, we firehosed Dr. King and his companions in the name of "segregation today, segregation tomorrow." In each case the government, a pawn of the "haves," abused its power over the "have nots" in the name of good business and preservation of the status quo. Why should we expect this precedent to change? And why should we expect China not to learn from our good example?
Re:this is turning into WTO all over again. (Score:4)
And once again, we meet that fine line in the sand. Lets look at WTO. There were days of peaceful protest. There were also groups who showed up, promising to cause a disruption and destroy property. So how are you expected to deal with the protests as a whole?
Consider the situation in Philly. Much like the WTO, the opening days were peaceful. Very little confrontation between activist and policeman. As it should be. Then we consider the final day of protests, where the groups that advocated the destruction of public and private property came out to play. These are people, some of whom have been trained so that they can 'fight back' when the Police come to break them up.
The Police HAVE to come break them up. You can't allow people to go around destroying property. These people then say they have to "defend themselves" from the Police. Then, you get the mob mentality. Other people join the violence because they can. And some of these people have the gall to say that they are in the right.
Now, at the same time, you cannot argue whatsoever with the right to protest, the right to speak and be heard. But where do we draw the line in the sand? When it gets violent, should it be the fault of the Police? What if the Police overstep their bounds, refusing due process and basic human rights? There's a lot more here then just "Blame the Man, blame the Pigs" because some people are abusing everyone's right to protest by doing so violently.
Anyway, that's my rant..
Re:Vote Libertarian! (Off topic a bit) (Score:4)
I don't know what you're talking about in terms of libertarians and religion. The ACLU is most definitely not a libertarian organization, as witnessed by (among many other things) their hostility toward any privatization of the school system, such as vouchers which would allow parents to choose religious or secular private schools. Libertarians view religion as independent of government; it should be neither promoted nor disparaged, just like the 1st Amendment says.
To everyone complainging about CmdrTaco's actions (Score:3)
SHUT UP!
This website is not a news website. Slashdot *is* opinions.
When was the last time Slashdot broke the story on anything? How many reporters work for slashdot?
This website consists of finding news elsewhere and exchanging views on the issue. CmdrTaco should not be exempt from these discussions.
Another thing: to claim that he is somehow abusing his position by throwing his slant into the headlines is nonsense. Microsoft stories have carried the Borg Bill logo as long as I have been a reader, blatantly throwing the Slashdot staff's views into the mix. This is an OPINION website and this exactly the sort of expression I'd like to see here.
"Abuse?" It's your press, print what you want.... (Score:4)
Like I said, it's your press, print what you want. "Abusing Slashdot" will only do more to convince many of us that Slashdot speaks primarily for the far-left wing of the "geek" population.
-cwk.
Well, as we all know (Score:4)
--Remove SPAM from my address to mail me
Re:Abusing slashdot to push your political agenda? (Score:3)
Hey, man, it's his website
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Re:Bitching About Politics (Score:5)
When a new toy appears and
News Flash! THAT IS OPINION, not NEWS!
This is slashdot NOT ABC, NBC, CBS or FOX.
I get plenty of OPINION from those sources 24/7 and frankly, the reason I read
The only reason I 'DO' read the standard media is to keep aware of just exactly 'WHAT' those people are thinking and trying to feed the sheep that believe all that pap placed before them. I read Slashdot for the authors/editors and posters opinions of the latest issues because they inevitably include multiple links, insights, sources and prospective. Truth be known, Slashdot posters furnish the depth I utilize to judge an issue for myself.
I don't code, I don't do hardware, and I'm not an industry insider so I count on
Just one more opinion, for what it is worth!
Re:this is turning into WTO all over again. (Score:3)
I expect the police to enforce the law. In the 1980's, there were MANY protests which were largely non-violent, with a few violent people. The police dealt with most of them quite well. It's only now that "police riots" are happening repeatedly.
So much for the lessons of the past. And so much for police professionalism. Ready, aim, lawsuit!
Re:throw your vote away (Score:5)
The object of an election isn't to vote for the winner. That's silly and circuituous logic. The object of an election is to vote for the candidate who best fits your ideas about how government should work.
Bush or Gore will win the 2000 election. That's a fact. But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't vote Libertarian, or Green, or whatever most closely meets your own beliefs. Keep in mind that, if even a few percent of the vote are for a third-party candidate, that candidate, his or her party, and the whole concept of a many-party system will gain legitimacy and clout in 2004, and in elections to come. That translates into real action by the winner of this year's election - remember, much of presidential politics works by 'mandate,' the idea that the President's political capital stems from the belief that his ideas parallel those of the public. It also translates into a real chance at third parties winning, if not the Presidency, then congressional seats and local offices. A few percent means tens of millions of people. It means power. It means change.
Elections are a lot more complex than just which "white man in a suit" gets to live in the big white house for the next four years. They're the formal expression of the will of the people. Don't throw your vote away by voting for Bush or Gore if they don't really express the direction you'd like politics to move in.
and this says what? (Score:3)
Re:Vote Libertarian! (Score:3)
Don't take this the wrong way, but leagalizing drugs could be a good thing
When you consider what a large portion of crime is a result of (drug trade, abuse, etc). The leagalization of certain drugs could put them under control, in ways similar to the whole alchohol prohibition.
Disclaimer: I am not condoning nor condeming the use of drugs
Vote democrat and get carnivore and more! (Score:3)
-export regs on encryption. BC thinks they're a good idea and wants them, the republicans think they should be abolished
-CDA, bipartisan legislation; signed by BC
-COPA and COPPA: signed by BC
-Carnivore, supported by our attorney general and president
-Gore wants to begin allowing net taxes soon, GW wants to wait and see before even discussing allowing them
-DMCA, signed by BC. (yes I know it is orrin hatch's baby, but it had wide bipartisan support)
So CmdrTaco, you really think that GW is going to be the worse candidate? Considering that Gore has backed BC all the way, everytime? That shows you what kind of person Gore is.
Confiscate the banners and RIP OFF THEIR EARS (Score:5)
Besides, they ripped someone's ear off. They RIPPED SOMEONE'S EAR OFF! [phillyimc.org] Disfigurement is an extreme punishment for a misdemeanor.
Ch
You've been misinformed (Score:3)
And that's a common misfact too; I've heard it from other people. I wonder who the primary sources spreading it are; I can understand random conservatives wanting to repeat it without confirmation, but you'd think any author would check the numbers first.
Check out the federal revenues and expenditures [polisci.com] for yourself. Revenues keep pace with (although behind) expenditures through the 70s, each growing by about 60 billion a year, until 1983, when expenditures went up by the usual 60 billion, but revenues dropped by 17 billion. There's your tax cut. Voila, the deficit nearly doubles that year.
And if you really want to narrow down the blame, do some more research and check out where those expenditures were going during the 80s. Comparing the AFDC and military budgets is enlightening. According to the Cato people, federal expenditures on Health went up by
REMEMBER: The congress is the one that ultimately controls spending and taxes, not the president.
That's a matter of opinion, and the word "ultimately" in there seems to point more towards the president, who gets to veto any budget he doesn't like after all. Sure, there's pressure on both sides to come to a compromise... but the last time we had a major failure to compromise, the Republican congress took a lot more heat for it than Clinton did.
indymedia (Score:5)
Re:this is turning into WTO all over again. (Score:4)
1) How do you expect police to respond? At the WTO, there was a huge amount of damage done to property. Police arrested people. Everyone complains. Lawsuits follow. In New York, Police keep the rioting after a parade contained to a park. No one is arrested. Everyone complains. Lawsuits follow. Simple: Do you want police protection or not? Not happy with your police? Join the police review board in your town. Become a cop. And thanks for bringing up the Falun Gong. Have protesters been killed in jail? Held over a year without charges? Get a grip. This is obviously two different situations.
2) The 2600 story is bogus and misleading. What was shapeshifter charged with? Making gas bombs can be a misdemeanor. Stringing piano wire to injure horses is also one. So is striking a police officer, resisting arrest, peeing in the alley and a ton of other things. So what did this guy do? He was just walking down the street, talking on a phone. Ok. Right. Prisons are filled with the wrong people. Ask any prisoner! My father was a homicide cop for 20 years. He arrested people covered in blood standing over dead bodies holding knives who went to court saying they didn't do anything. If you want to tell the story, tell the whole thing. Remember, everyone, INCLUDING THE POLICE, are innocent until proven guilty. Less then
Viv
Viv
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Bitching About Politics (Score:5)
Why the hell not? He uses Slashdot for his views about software, why not politics? It's his website, after all, he can do whatever the hell he wants. Rather than bitching about it, just don't click on stories you don't want to read - less pageviews means he'll be less likely to post something like that in the future.
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More info on the political prisoners in Philly (Score:3)
Inanimate Carbon Rod 2000! (Score:3)
Sadly, I.C.R. isn't running. I'd prefer Bush as someone who will most likely fuck things up less than Gore, but I don't like either of them. I'd really like to see any of the third parties, on the grounds that no way in hell could Nadar, Buchanan, Browne or Hagelan do anything. To bad they aren't really an option either.
I'll probably write in R.U. Sirius (The Revolution(tm)'s candidate). But I'll be hoping for Bush. Do you realize that there are supreme court judges who think that the federal government has authority to prosecute rape under the interstate commerce clause? Is rape bad? Yes. Is it the federal government's responsibility? Not by a long shot. Gore is more likely to appoint brain dead justices. Abortion is currently secure, so it isn't a reason to vote for Gore. Federalism is not, and is a good reason to vote for Bush.
(It's odd -- I don't even like my own party's candidate, because he promised he wouldn't run again back in 96, and now he is.)
Typical of "two-party-only" thinking (Score:4)
It's never "throwing away" one's vote to vote for the candidate you actually want to become President. Voting for the lesser of two evils is indeed throwing away the vote.
Since both Bush and Gore are not worthy of this high office, I don't care who of them wins if and when I vote for my consumer rights hero, Ralph Nader. Ralph is the only candidate running who I can put my full faith and trust in. Of course, I don't agree with Ralph on every issue, but at least he and his party are not bought and paid for. Their positions on the issues are *their* positions on the issues.
Go Nader go!
Steve Magruder
You dont like bush or gore? Vote Dammit (Score:5)
Re:Abusing slashdot to push your political agenda? (Score:3)
Alright, fine. He has editorial control. So he's using his powers of editorial control to post an editorial about his views on a candidate.
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Social Security, the debt (Score:5)
For the same reason that GWB talks about wanting to "fix" or "save" Social Security, when you and I might want to hear the phrase "phase out" instead: because nobody who used the phrase "fraudulent Ponzi scheme" to describe Social Security would have a snowball's chance in Texas (or Hell, same diff) of being elected. They'd be a shoo-in for the Libertarian nomination, maybe, but that just furthers my point.
Why the *%^# does a tax cut have to be "economically needed"?
Because that's one of the ways we try and smooth out the boom/bust cycle of the economy. Every dollar of tax cuts that occurs during the current boom is just a dollar that will have to be made up during the next bust, when it will hurt much more.
Keep in mind, "tax cuts" and "spending cuts" are two different things. Do you really think that if we mindlessly cut taxes, that Congress will cut spending to match? Didn't Reagan try that, and send the debt from 1 to 3 trillion or so during his term?
It's our money, we earned it,
Well, see, the problem is that it isn't your money. About $5 trillion of our past two decades' budgets came from the U.S. government's creditors (including uncounted bond-holding suckers), many of whom have business plans or retirement plans which depend on seeing that money again. And we now have a choice to make: we can pay them back now, and forgo tax cuts during an unbelievably healthy economy. We can keep borrowing now, and pay them back later, and hope that the economy will go from "unbelievably healthy" to "inconceivable juggernaut" to make our delay pay off. Or, we can default on the debt, and hope that we can bring an end to the Great Depression II without first going through World War III.
how about the government showing that it's "economically needed" for taxes to be at the highest peacetime level in history?
Look at the federal debt. Look at the budget surplus, which is higher than anyone expected and not certain to continue long. Estimate how long it would take for the latter to pay down the former to less preposterous levels. There's your proof of economic necessity.
Now, I'm not saying that we shouldn't cut spending, and then cut taxes. But let's do those things in the right order this time?
Why vote for the lesser evil? (Score:3)
Re:Or push for proportional representation (Score:4)
Re:They rippes someone's ear off!!!! (Score:5)
A Dick and a Bush .. You know somebody's gonna get screwed.
Re:Idealism. (Score:3)
As for the specific accusations, what do you really know? To say that 2600 has an agenda is an understatement. The same goes for the rest of these protestors. The ACLU, who I personally feel oversteps "rights" many times, was there officially and they even had few complaints. The local media filmed much of this, they would love nothing more than to film these supposedly outrageous police abuses which would have brought them in much revenue--they have no reason to "lie". Furthermore, I personally witnessed a fair amount of the protests. I saw many of these protestors blatanly lie about "abuse", when only moments before I saw them assaulting officers (i.e., spitting on them, throwing stuff at them, etc.). Why is it that I should suddenly believe them, and not extend the police the benefit of the doubt? Because they're mostly white upper middle class suburban kids? Sorry, but they too have an agenda, most of which is to simply make trouble. This is particularly true when what most of the protestors want MOST is to get media attention through accusations of police brutality.
As for arresting people who claim to have been merely walking and talking on the phone/radio, the police are allowed the arrest you IF they suspect you have organizing these illegal acts.
Anyone here actually from Philadelphia? I am. (Score:4)
Heres the real scoop before you believe the "unbiased" news that come from the protest groups themselves.
Protesters who were arrested were arrested for the following things: (1) Destruction of property (2) Directly assaulting police (3) Blocking traffic. The common tactics used by most truly non-violent protestors (the traffic blocking ones) was to block a street and use various paraphenalia like PVC pipes and chains to lock themselves together. The philly police had to clear these people and they did so with as little force as possible. To do otherwise is irresponsible on the part of the police. Several police have been injured or sprayed with unknown substances when they were either doing nothing (sitting in their patrol cars, etc.) Several more were injured (including the police commissioner) when they attempted to stop violent protestors from tipping over cars and other blatantly destructive activities.
Unlike Seattle no tear gas was ever used. The philly police were calmer and far gentler than their counterparts in Seattle. The police stopped several trucks and closed down a warehouse they were told housed equipment to be used for disruptive protests. I assume that these things will be sorted out now that the convention is over and the police have actual time to follow up. Incidentally the worst day of protests was the second day of the convention, not the first and not the last. Anyone who tells you differently is making things up.
As for the jail conditions, it was not uncommon for protesters to strip naked, piss, and crap all over their holding cells. They then demanded to be moved out of their squalid conditions. The police refused and let them sit in their own shit. Some protestors complained about the food because they were (1) vegetarians or (2) had dietary health problems. Food was usually on the order of cheese or pb&j sandwiches (for the lactose intolerant). Philly police site about 400 people in custody and over half have been released. Those still in custody are most likely being held because they will not disclose their real names to the police and will be released once they do. Several people still being held were the riot instructors. These are the people who trained and then were actively coaching the disruptive protestors on the sidelines.
Considering the incredible pressure and concerted effort put against the Philadelphia police, the city of philadelphia is very happy with its police force. All the pictures and videos I have seen on the local news have been relatively positive towards the police.
Or "approval voting" (Score:3)
What we need here, according to that voting systems FAQ in the other reply to your post (someone moderate that up, BTW?), is called approval voting, where instead of one voter, one vote, each voter casts a "yes" or a "no" vote for each candidate, and the candidate with the most yes votes wins.
That way, people can vote for third party candidates without worrying that they may be splitting the vote for their preferred Republicrat candidate, because they'd cast a vote for both. Social liberals in this election might vote yes to Gore and Nader; fiscal liberals might vote yes to Bush and Browne.
I'd vote yes to Gore and Browne, just to confuse people. As it is, I think that both primary candidates in this election suck (Why did everybody I talked to prefer McCain and Bradley, but Bush and Gore got all the votes anyway), and if Gore was winning by a big margin I'd cast a protest vote for Browne... but as it is, I have to vote for Gore as the only possible way to help keep GWBush from taking the election.