What Can I Do w/ an SGI Challenge XL and No Money? 33
Adam Turman asks: "The school where I do tech work in the summers just received a 4-processor SGI Challenge XL Irix machine. As it is a public magnet school serving eight of the poorest counties in Virginia, we have very little money to pay someone to support the machine, and none of us who work here know any Unix past 'cd' and 'ls'. As far as I know, we would not receive any money from the sale of the machine. So, I have to ask: What is this computer best suited doing? Would it be better to hire someone who knows IRIX or learn it ourselves? How much would we need to pay a good systems administrator? Forgive my ignorance of UNIX and related subjects, but I feel that Slashdot is the best place to get ideas for what to do with this system." Any admins nearby looking to donate some time to a worthy cause?
Teach the kiddies (Score:1)
Irix, in my experience, was always used for computationaly intensive tasks: graphic, or real time simulation, not webserving or proxy type tasks.
The last part is that the learning curve to get acquanted with Irix, where the developer community is smaller, is unfortunately higher. But if you get any "Learn Unix" book, you should be able to make, but with a good deal of patience.
Sell it. (Score:1)
Information, maybe even usefull. (Score:1)
Here is a link on how to install KDE on IRIX [concordia.ca], it may be worth a try to put a new face on IRIX.
Here is a blurb about what the Challenge XL was intednded to be used for: (copied from this website you may find helpful [hummingbirdcomp.com])
ChallengeXL The CHALLENGE XL network resource server is a compute and throughput powerhouse for deskside and data center applications in the database, digital media, integer compute real-time and high-performance file serving markets. The CHALLENGE XL can handle extraordinary data management tasks, shifting yesterday's compute paradigm from high-cost mainframes to the industry-leading performance of today's cost-effective symmetric multi-processors. The powerful, flexible CHALLENGE XL system architecture is based on a 1.2GB/second sustained bus, which minimizes time-wasting contention between I/O, memory and compute subsystems. The system supports from two to thirty-six MIPS® R10000 TM CPUs, multiple gigabytes of CPU memory, and up to six 320MB/second POWER Channel-2TM I/O subsystems. The CHALLENGE server's flexible hardware and software configurability allows performance optimization, as well as tangible growth paths to meet future computing demands. The server comes standard with one 320MB/second POWER Channel-2 subsystem. Each POWER Channel-2 subsystem contains an EthernetTM controller, two 20MB/second Fast/Wide 16-bit SCSI-II controllers (configurable as single-ended or differential) a 50MB/second VME controller, two 19.2KB RS232 serial ports, a 38.4KB RS422 serial port, a parallel port, and supports up to two optional daughter boards (HIO modules). External storage is provided via the CHALLENGE Vault XL. With this product, the CHALLENGE servers can support up to 5.6TB of on-line, non-RAID storage and 17.4TB of RAID-5 and RAID-3 storage. The CHALLENGE XL server is ideal for cutting edge data warehousing applications. With CPU and I/O expandability to meet the needs of interactive terabyte databases, this system can be grown to manage the data extraction and data hygiene needs of each customer. HIO-based SCSI expansion provides higher database performance by reducing I/O interrupt overhead. Large secondary cache also increase overall database performance. In addition CHALLENGE uses the IRIX symmetric multi-processing operating system in conjunction with the XFSTM, a native log-based filesystem. This provides a high level of data integrity, quick data recovery, and a robust environment suitable for the parallelism and throughput requirements of data warehousing. The CHALLENGE XL serves the realm of extreme data as a deployable machine unmatched in CPU and I/O throughput capabilities. Complementing these hardware strengths are software advances, which create industry-leading file server performance for the enterprise. For the most creative graphics workstation users manipulating a range of digital media data, IRIX offers deterministic I/O, large file and partition sizes, and intuitive data management through the IRIXPro suite of flexible GUI-based administration tools. Performance-hungry supercomputer sites requiring powerful front-end servers with direct and buffered I/O capabilities also enjoy efficient utilization of high-performance networks (HiPPI, FDDI) and sparse file support.
Ask for more, after all they're obsolete... (Score:1)
Put up a web page listing what hardware you can add. As machines like it get upgraded, you may be able to get more processors, more memory, more disk, tape drives, etc... If you can grow the machine to many processors and more than 4 gbytes of RAM, it will be able to do things that PC class hardware can't. It'll also be quite a learning experience.
Create a grant application for people who want time on your CPU cluster. Try to turn the CPU cluster into a unique resource with a world wide reputation.
Re:Information, maybe even usefull. (Score:1)
Not gonna happen, big boy. Linux (the only kernel Debian currently uses) hasn't been fully ported to MIPS. As far as FreeBSD goes, it only runs on x86 & Alpha. Hell, NetBSD hasn't even been fully ported.
As long as you're running SGI MIPS hardware, you ain't gonna get shit for performance or usability from anything but IRIX for some time yet.
Re:USE THAT PUPPY! (Score:1)
If you have lots of Windows machines, this might make a good Samba server. Since it doesn't have graphics capabilities, but ought to make a spectacular number cruncher, get the Math/Science teachers to come up with some college-level projects to run on it. If you have CS courses, then it's a great opportunity to learn:
If you have a good Internet connection (DSL or cable modem would do), you can also provide e-mail for the students. Give them shell accounts so they can use Pine and practice UNIX skills, or setup WebMail. You've all sorts of possibilies.
The biggest problem you'll run into is the chance that you don't have SGI's development package. In that case, you're SOL unless you can find binaries for any not-already-installed programs you need. The Devel package costs, I believe, about $1000 from SGI, but they may give a high school a nice break. Check into it. Read up on SGIs. Find out how to secure them properly, but please, put this baby to good use.
Re:Simple (Score:1)
I think NT4 came with a MIPS version... I haven't the least idea how well it worked, or where in the HELL you're going to find any software for it, though.
USE THAT PUPPY! (Score:1)
Re:Simple (Score:1)
I'm not sure whether to laugh hysterically or cry at the thought of someone trying to install 2000 on a SGI box.
Re:USE THAT PUPPY! (Score:1)
Sounds like my high school. Hah. Glad to be out of there. At least in the 'real world' (wherever that is), when you get a new machine you can use the damned thing.
They were probably scared you might learn or something. Seriously, the school board prohibited my high school from teaching programming, on the basis that we would all become 'hackers' (which we would, but they didn't mean it like that). People don't like to feel dumb, especially by people that _they're_ supposed to be teaching.
Re:Simple (Score:1)
I can think of some things... (Score:1)
An educational use would be to just allow kids to learn Unix off of it. Think of how much cool experience that would give them before they go off to college. Man if my Computer Club back in high school had an SGI to play with, I would've been stoked.
Additionally, you might want to see if you can get any mathematics software companies to provide free academic versions for you - like Mathematica by Wolfram Research or a statistics software package like SPSSX (I think that was the name). They would be great for advanced students. Fractal generators... Geometry... Physics...
I'm positive there's public domain chemistry and biology stuff out there too.
There are just too many possibilities to mention...
I wish I could help you out in person. Would love to volunteer some time for that.
Good luck.
Chris
Re:Simple (Score:1)
Like a paper cup supporting a bus.
Re:Get some CBT courses on unix for students (Score:1)
In one way, though, the CBT Systems(tm) courses are actually bad for someone with zero knowledge in a subject -- and I'm not just talking novice computer users either.
Early on in many (all?) courses, the software will ask questions on topics that have not been discussed. This is frustrating to the student, since they don't have a reasonable chance to provide a correct answer. I remember some of that when trying out the Cisco tutorials, myself.
I can think of two reasons for this behavior;
Re:Get some CBT courses on unix for students (Score:1)
Thinking I missed something, I bit my lip and waited for others in my group at the time to use the tutorials for a while, and let them tell me what they thought.
Summary: Very few people thought they learned anything, and most people returned to books or hands-on work (when possible). The consensus was that CBT Systems software was useful to learn how to pass a test, but didn't actually teach anything of lasting value. That, and it felt like abuse, not learning.
had one (Score:1)
I personally enjoyed doing the SA work of care + feeding of a machine like this, but it's not for everyone. I'd be happy to pitch in if you need some questions answered.
--willy dog
Application or Proxy Server. (Score:1)
Also, C, C++, Fortran, X, ... works on this machine and may be useful for using it in a computer science class (as the server).
I am not sure if Matlab and Mathematica are still making IRIX version of their software. But if you can find a old version for this machine, that may be useful for Math and Physics class.
Re:Simple (Score:1)
Well.... (Score:1)
I got one! (Score:2)
Oh, and consulting any one of the Learning UNIX books out there ain't too bad either. O'Reilly is always a good choice. "Unix for Dummies" is informative and pretty funny too.
--
Learn! (Score:2)
I recieved a little SGI Indy from a friend of mine (he got two indys and an indigo that his office wasn't going to use anymore!) and i actually learned the bulk of my unix-like knowledge from that. command lines, where to find configurations for certain things... etc.
Irix is a pretty neat OS really - I've been impressed with the interface it uses. There are all kinds of neat audio and video and 3d tools for irix, many of them you might be able to find for free-ish.
I'd think you would be able to teach some good unix skills, in addition to maybe some interesting application skills. All in all, if it works and stays working (i haven't had a problem with my indy except when i filled up the drive, oops) you could get some great experience for you and your students.
Well, these are really, really nice systems. (Score:2)
I fear the electrical demand might put a serious dent in your school's budget, and in that case you might be wise to trade it for something else (perhaps an Indigo2 or two, or some O2s or Indys if you'd like to stick with SGI).
D
----
Re:Learn! (Score:2)
Although outdated, the Challenge XL is a still a workhorse at my job. We have a couple dozen of them.
I'd be more concerned about support. The CoOp Care support contract (parts, phone support, no on-site) will cost you > $20k year.
Necron69
Re:Get some CBT courses on unix for students (Score:2)
I've seen demos of a few other learning systems, which seemed better for taking students through some basic tasks. But none of them are a substitute for an instructor and hands-on learning.
The problem here is that the school district doesn't have any expertise to draw on, so they have to start somewhere. Maybe there are some good tutorials on the web, but I haven't seen them. But a machine like that is a godsend to poor schools, it just has to be made accessible to the students and somehow they need to be shown all the wonderful things it can do besides just web browsing.
the AC
A great opportunity (Score:2)
There currently is a good job market for these kind of skills.
Let a Computer Class use it... (Score:2)
Team up with Pros (Score:2)
As for what to do with the server, that depends on what the students are like. If you have high school students, and this magnet school is tech-tilted, you can use the computer to teach graphics (3D even?), programing (something other than BASIC), or networking. It really depends on what skills the available teachers have.
And available teachers can be volunteers. Try a LUG or IrixUG (if such a beast exists) in the eight counties the school serves, you may be able to find a few people willing to come teach computing to a few dozen skulls full of mush. (Push the benefits of teaching: re-learn the subject, watch fire being ignited in a few eyes, looks great on resume when you volunteer.)
If it is a high school, try the local Community College for teachers. Some of the teachers/tech staff there might want to help, and a few students might be skilled enough in what you want to teach. Heck, try universities nearby. Many campus clubs do outreach, including teaching/tutoring youngsters. I know of two or three like that at my university, so you might get lucky.
Louis Wu
"Where do you want to go ...
Re:Simple (Score:2)
Well, at least anyone attempting could rest assured that the interface's most cherished features, especially the Blue Screen Of Death, will remain substantially the same no matter what the processor.
Ugh. I don't think I knew there was MIPS support in NT, but I'm wondering now:
If I killed someone for doing something as stupid as installing NT 4 onto a Silicon Graphics machine, would I be eligible for the electric chair, or would the idiot who incited his own death in this way be eligible for a Darwin Award?
Re:Simple (Score:2)
I'm not sure whether to laugh hysterically or cry at the thought of someone trying to install 2000 on a SGI box.
Hmmm... Yeah. How well does Windows 2000 support non-Alpha/non-x86 multiprocessor systems?
LOL
Re:Yes, NT4 does support mips (Score:2)
Hmm... Well, it would never run on the SG Challenge XL, then, since, AFAIK, that's a MIPS10000 machine.
Yeah, now why *anyone* would want to run NT on an Indy is beyond me. Seems to me that it defeats almost half the purpose of having an Indy.
PowerPC is even more laughable: Mac users are undoubtedly the biggest PowerPC users, and they're incredibly independant and scornful of Microsloth.
Latex and Emacs seem to be flakey on NT.Flakey? I can't even get vi to start up in DOS!
Re:Simple (Score:2)
rm -rf
You know, I would agree with the moderation that this was really funny, if it wasn't possible that a new user might mistake this for being a serious instruction.
I think we're all united in that we want to get people away from using Windows as a desktop operating system, let alone a serious networking operating system.
When you undermine the attempts of new Linux/UNIX users to be able to understand their systems, let alone "help" them along by making them inadvertantly erase their hard drives, all you end up doing is making them abandon their efforts in frustration and turn to such wonderfully stable, efficient, inexpensive and highly secure operating systems as Windows 2000.
Hope the guy can reinstall his operating system.
Re:USE THAT PUPPY! (Score:3)
I agree, worst case is let the kids who want to figgure it out. However there are two gottchas to this approach: Make sure that you have the ability to wipe the entire system clean should you want to use it. You never know what the kids leave behind (perhaps on accident), and it is best to start from a clean slate once in a while.
Second, make sure that the kids can use this to harm other machines. Most kids are good, but there are bad apples in every bunch, so protect yourself from them.
Lots of useful things to do with this machine, so don't let it go to waste.
Get some CBT courses on unix for students (Score:5)
Find the students who would like to learn unix as an extra-curricular activity, and assign some lessons to them. Lessons should include:
- installing the operating system from scratch
- installing security patches on the OS
- basic system admin functions (adduser, backups,... )
- configuring email
- installing a web server
- basic network admin functions
- find, install, and configure a public domain 3D rendering software package for SGI
- make the rendering software usable by several simultaneous users
- assign some students to render some 3D objects
- assign some advanced students to create a small animation clip using freely available SGI software
and turn them loose. Make them write reports on what they have done for each lesson (so you can pass their reports to others to learn from).
After the first semester or so, there will be a hard-core group who will love the system. Use them to administrate the system. Others who only want to point and click on web browsers will not find it interesting, leave them to their macs and windoze machines.
Make sure you impress upon the core group they are responsible for keeping the system in a functioning state, usable by other students at any time (except for pre-announced down times, just like in a real company), and it must conform to your school districts policy (no launching DDoS, no fake e-mail, no warez). When they become responsible for keeping the system clean, they tend to become extremely good at keeping the black hats off the system.
the AC