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Brilliant Careers: Robert Moog 101

Posted by emmett from the forbidden-planet dept.
citmanual wrote in to tell us about a fantastic article over at Salon about Robert Moog, the creator of the Moog and Minimoog synthesizers.
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Brilliant Careers: Robert Moog More

Brilliant Careers: Robert Moog

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  • The unique design of the moog filter was passingly mentioned in the article. But one thing that I havn't really seen addressed in any of the interviews with Dr. Bob is whether or not anyone (as I recon the rights were sold numerous times) ever tried to take legal action against companies who copped the patented moog filter design (US 3,475,623). If anyone has the scoop, please enlighten.

    For those who wish to cop their own Moog filter, oscs or other goodness, do check out Tom Gamble's excellent resources available at http://www.xavax.com/efm [xavax.com]

    Lastly, I offer this simple entreat: For anyone who ever plans to write an article on Dr. Bob, the history of electronic music or what have you, PLEASE resist the temptation to insert a line (as did Mr. Huston) saying something to the effect of "Walter (now Wendy) Carlos." Have some respect for chirst sakes and just say Wendy.

  • Devo was excellent. I can't Mark Mothersbaugh just doing whatever for a living though. But speaking of synthesizers, I think New Order and Men Without Hats have done some of the more brilliant synths out there (Safety Dance comes to mind). David Bowie did some good experimental stuff as well.
  • This may seem like a troll to knee-jerk /. moderators, but I really cannot see what the point of all of the synthesized "dance" music that dominates the charts today is. After all, how can it be called music when all it takes is some 16-year old kid in their bedroom with a copy of some tracker program? There's no talent involved, it's all just pressing a few buttons.

    And what do the tools have to do with the person? There are monumentally talented artists out there making music with synths, just like there are talented artists making non-synthesized music. No matter how anyone makes their music, the talented musicians who actually *understand* the dynamics of sound and music are in the minority. None of them appear on the charts, because they're interested in music, not marketing.

    Not that I'm disagreeing with you on the Brittany Spearme thing. Most "mainstream" music today is crap. :)

    If you think trackers have no talent, try Hunz [globec.com.au] or mellow-d [scene.org] (or heck, anyone in FM [fm.org]).

    Using a tracker lets you concentrate on making the music... it's the closest thing to using a real instrument as far as I'm concerned.

    I'm reminded of the phrase, "it's a poor worksman who blames his tools."

  • Haven't listened to Aphex Twin yet, but I intend to.

    Then you haven't lived! :) Personally, while they are (well were) unique, I find his drums distracting, but his music is just plain amazing. He is truly a genius, regardless of whether you actually like his music or not.

  • Or Scooby-Doo soundtrack effects.

    I wish I had a nickel for every time someone said "Information wants to be free".

  • Moog! (Score:1)

    by bjb ( 3050 )
    Man, I love Moog synthesizers. I used to have a Rogue, which is basically a dual oscillator single tone keyboard (4 octave, if I remember correctly). Those things are great!

    It won't be up until tomorrow, but you can check out some "conceptual moog drawings" I did about 15 years ago at http://www.tribrothers.com/brian/moog/ [tribrothers.com].

    Poot.

    --

  • I wouldn't say that he composed great music for everything neccessarily.

    Much of what is striking about his music comes from the fact that he wrote very similar music regardless of the instrument.

    Thus, you have things like the Chaconne in the D Minor violin sonata which are essentially polyphonic keyboard music rendered into violin arpeggios. Conversely, you have Back keyboard music that requires enormous dexterity because you're playing something that's easy on a stringed instrument.

    I can't think of a specific example, but there are Bach solo concertos that differ only in the choice of the solo instrument - the pair I have in mind is oboe vs violin, which hardly share similar characteristics as far as idiomatic writing go.

    Bach's music sits above the orchestration layer. At the time he was writing, people were still expecting that ensembles could and would subsititute voices of approximately the same range regardless of timbre. Hence the figured basses that don't indicate what bass instrument is to play the actual bass line, or which keyboard instrument will realise the continuo.

    Bach was good at orchestration, but he really wrote for an Platonic ideal set of voices in the mind. That's why it works well on the Moog.
  • He was on the Feb. 28, 2000 show. Here's the link to the link:
    http://whyy.org/cgi-bin/F Asearcher.cgi?search_string=moog [whyy.org]
  • Well, the synthesizer isn't just for cheesy rock music -- check out Vangelis' soundtracks for "Blade Runner" or "Chariots of Fire" or Wendy Carlos' soundtrack for "Tron". These are far more creative than the tired orchestral soundtracks by John Williams and his ilk, IMHO.
  • me miss real MEEPT!!!!!
  • At the time "he" *was* Walter. There was no Wendy Carlos at the time.
  • I was just wondering, how do you know that most people browse at +1?
  • I listened to this record over and over and over again when i was a kid (maybe 9 years old?). We also had Well Tempered Synthesizer and a strange Moog country music album that Carlos did. I still hear Bach melodies as sythesizer tones, not as string instruments.

    mahlen

    There are three secrets that my mother told me: Be a maid in the living room,
    a cook in the kitchen, and a whore in the bedroom. And I figure, so long as I
    have a maid and a cook, I'll do the rest myself. You can only do so much in
    one day.
    --Jerry Hall
  • Upon further examination, the album was in fact called "Switched On Country", but it was by Rick Powell, not Wendy Carlos. Found that out on someone's list of Moog recordings [ihug.co.nz].

    Now i need to go bug my parents and see if they still have it. I just ordered her recently remastered Switched On Bach; can't wait to hear it.

  • Maybe it's not so ingenious, but Taucher makes most delicious use of the 303 (or something sounding an awful lot like it) on Waters. There's a wonderful soft, gentle sound you can get from that little box.
  • I used to have a demo album called THE ELECTRIC COW GOES MOOG. Very funny to the extent it was trying to be funny. Too bad I gave it away, it's probably worth something by now. (Of course, this was also the days when you could buy Moog Synths at garage sales for $10.)
    --
  • Yes, that's how you pronounce "Moog".
  • People tell me that Moog is pronounced like rogue and hoag. Can anyone confirm this?
  • Alternatively, there's the Moog Cookbook. Entertaining cover versions of Rock 'classics'. Try here [ubl.com] for samples of their stuff.
  • I'd like to see a return of music to the days before the synthesizer took over, when music required skill and talent to create and produce.

    Yeah, let's go back to the old days. On the same line of thought, let's make computing as hard as it used to be decades ago, when you had to be an engineer to be able to use a computer.. instead of these dead-simple point-and-click things.

    It's not that I don't, in general, agree with your views about electronic music. You have to remember, though, that you don't have to listen to it, even though those millions of sheep do. It's like Microsoft software: neither brilliant nor spectacular, but simply good not be a financial success. Such it is with this "music" produced today.

  • Mark also has his brother Bob help him out with Rugrats music sometimes. They both also do the music for another Nick show, Rocket Power.

    On an interesting note, Flea from the Red Hot Chilli Peppers does the voice of the feral boy, Donnie, on the Nick show The Wild Thornberrys.

    I watch way too much Nick, but that's only because our fscking cable company doesn't give us the Cartoon Network yet.
    --
  • I have kids, what is your excuse for watching Rugrats? ;]
    Okay, you caught me! :) The only way my son will let me play with his Lego is if we watch Nick at the same time.

    I don't knock the Devo boys for doing the music. I'm pretty sure they don't need to do it, but they just have that creative drive to satisfy.

    --
  • One has to mention Walter Carlos or one cannot find his professional credits. Such as the music credit in "A Clockwork Orange". Or an LP on eBay.
  • We enjoyed a Moog in an "Electronic Music" course in college. On the fifth class, the professor told us to make a descending whistle which would move to a different corner of the room on each play. He went to his office while we wired it up.

    He got twenty feet down the hall before he heard it playing, and came back in the room to find four of us taking turns whistling while trying not to laugh until he got in the room.

    As a computer science major who knew how to do the logic needed for such tasks, I did have the desired effect really running in a few minutes. It turns out that if you reverse it, an ascending tone spinning around the room gives an interesting rocket-elevator effect... Or maybe that's just due to training by the WCCO "Foshay Tower" weather center sound effect...

  • I'm sure Disney would gladly claim the Great Mothersbaugh(s), but Disney (and Buena Vista Television, their subsidiary) don't have anything to do with Viacom's 'Rugrats'.
  • Moog Music UK (not related to Bob Moog) is selling new Minimoogs. The site is http://www.moogsynthesizers.co.uk/.
    synthmuseum.com [synthmuseum.com] and Synthsite [sonicstate.com] have more information about Moog and other synthesizers.

    If you want to try your hand at building your own analogue synthesizer, Synthfool [synthfool.com] has links to several DIY sites.

  • well, Moog Music doesn't sue anyone anymore, because they're not currently producing any new
    Moogs (the Moog Musics on the web are not the same company).

    i do know of one suit, and that fell on Yamaha for their 12dB filter in the CS5 (a cute little
    keyboard, i must say). i think they settled out of court or something. i could look it up, but i
    don't care enough.
  • i don't think that was what was being referred to... i was thinking more of the "virtual dj" schlock propagated as of late, with the rebirth, and mc303s growing popularity. granted, they sound really nice, but they can get really boring in the usual house/acid genre.
  • Moog was/is cool but the music for Forbidden Planet (along with some others)was executed with Theremins (using vacuum tube technolgy) invented in the 30's.

    Credit where credit is due: the score for "Forbidden Planet" was done by BeBe and Louis Barron, and they created the circuits themselves - true hackers. I'm not aware, however, that they used a theremin in that score.
  • Mark Mothersbaugh, formerly of Devo, can be seen in the credits for Buena Vista TV (Rugrats), a Disney subsidiary.
    Ugh!

    Have you listened to the stuff he's done for Rugrats? Pretty cool, I think. Also did Pee-Wee's Playhouse, if memory serves.

    Loud shots from the big spud gun...
  • Moog Music UK (not related to Bob Moog) is selling new Minimoogs.

    Yeah, remakes. The good Dr. no longer owns his name, so the people at Moog aren't really Moog. For people who care.

    Equal Time: Robert Moog does design and sell some pretty cool stuff under the name Moogerfooger - you can find info and order from BigBriar [bigbriar.com]. Theremins too!

    I bought his Ring Mod stompbox, I love it. Plus, signed by the man. Coolness!

    (For people who don't know: "Moog" rhymes with "Rogue")
  • RE: Patented filter...

    Sorry if this is short on facts and cites, but perhaps it's better than nothing. The way I heard it, Arp did swipe the Moog filter design (and made some bloody good sounding synths, too). Moog got huffy until it was pointed out that they had swiped some keyboard scanning circuits from Arp.

    RE: Walter vs Wendy - He/She has released work both pre- and post-op. Therefore any searches for information or albums should take into account both names. I think you're doing Ms. Carlos a favour by mentioning the former name.

    "The artist formerly known as Walter" Carlos...?
  • Anybody know where to get good moog and mini-moog samples?

    Sampling a Moog is like taking a snapshot of a ballet.

    However, if you must [proph.org]...

  • Try Sounds Online [soundsonline.com], an on-line outlet for sample CDs. You should be able to get your hands on Moog samples there.
  • The coolest thing was watching Rick Wakeman in concert play the piano with one hand and adjust the Moog with the other.
  • How about the coke commercials with subliminal 'consume' and 'submit' messages? those were great.

  • And you can blame most of it on Rebirth.

  • Cetainly, but how about a little respect in spelling Christ appropriately while you're at it! Not trolling, mostly amused...
  • Dude, a theremin is NOT a synth, nor is Clavioline [you even said synth-like, which is not synth]. My whole point is that the Monkees were the first to use a SYNTHESIZER. Not a something that was synth-like but a real, honest to goodness, genuine synthesizer.
  • Well, apart from the Monkees NOT being rock.... Actually the first use of a synthesized sound in popular music in the 60s was the Beach Boys including a Theremin in their hit "Good Vibrations".


    Whether or not YOU want to consider the Monkees rock, that is what catagory most music books list them as. Not to mention that you obviously haven't heard more than their hits or you would not spout such ignorance. And no I'm not a teeny bopping Monkees fan, I just know how to give credit where credit is due. AND I had said it was the first use of a SYNTH, not synthesized sound.

    So my statement still stands.

  • And try here [cdnow.com] as well...you might remember these selections from April Fools Day on MTV about 5 years ago...
  • During one Humanities lecture, my senior year at UNC-Asheville [unca.edu], I had the pleasure of listening to a Dr. Moog lecture on Electronic Music/Music Synthesizers. He gave a brief summary of how he developed his synthesizer and showed where it had been used in the media -- one example was a beer ad in 1969 (I can't remember what it was). He also had a Theremin set up and played it for everyone (he's pretty good at it!). I didn't realize that the "spooky" sounds during old '50s horror/sci-fi movies were made using the Theremin, as he told us. He is one amazing guy!

    And I thought Humanities was boring!

    Cheers!

  • Fine then. Listen to Underworld [dirty.org] or Orbital [loopz.co.uk] or Leftfield [leftfield-online.co.uk].

    And regarding that crack about the "time-honoured rules of music": All such rules came about after experimentation. Are you saying that musical innovation should stop now that we have found a solution?
    --
    The other side is crowded. The dead have nowhere to go.

  • Nah, let him bug off if he wants to. They don't get it? Fuck 'em. We don't want 'em at our party.
    --
    The other side is crowded. The dead have nowhere to go.
  • Sure, off topic... pretty pointless.... but come on! Is it just standard practice to moderate all the ACs down?
  • If we always followed time honoured rules, making music would involve banging some rocks together and shouting a bit. actually this is rather close to a lot of Aphex work ... :)

    Serioulsy though, the people need artists to challenge the status quo once and a while. Otherwise ALL music would be like Brittany or whatever the execs think we should like this week.
  • following up my original post, I think the following CDs (should be available on your friendly internet etailer) would be a good introduction to more 'underground' electronic sounds (with a heavy detroit bias!):

    * Derrick May: Innovator
    'Nuff said. Check 'Strings of Life' in particular - the all time techno classics in one package and totally essential.

    * DJ Rolando/UR: Knights of the Jaguar
    Amazing track and all time future classic, now available on a CD along with other classics and remixes - check www.submerge.com. Get the Rolando Mix CD also if you can

    * Paperclip People: The Secret Tapes of Dr. Eich
    Disco-House-Techno, before it was popular. Quality.

    * Time:Space - Transmat Compliation
    Cutting edge stuff, essential. Some free tracks on MP3.com, check under 'Transmat'

    * Deep Space - Model 500 (Juan Atkins)
    'The Flow' is absolutely stunning and this album was the godfather at his peak.

    * Gesamtkunstwerk - Dopplereffekt
    Old skool style, very dark, moody, humourous and hmm, quite similar to Drexciya ... hmm, I wonder... :)

    * The Hidden Camera EP - Photek
    Tell me a 12 year old with cubase can do this! Photek assembles each beat and sound painstakingly and this is breakbeat at its best.

    * Computer World & Trans Europe Express - Kraftwerk
    The genesis of most techno/dance/electronic pop and still classics.

    If you want to take this interest further I would also suggest investing in a record player, since most of the new stuff comes out Vinyl only.

    Cheers!
  • I agree that there was a huge post-hardfloor phase of incredibly bad and formulatic 'acid' 303 tracks, notably anything by Josh Wink.

    However, if you want to hear a 303 creatively used to stunning effect I suggest you check out anything by Plastikman, especially Sheet One and Musik, which are brillant.

    I hear there's a website going up at: www.plastikman.com although you might also have luck at www.m-nus.com which is his new label, or www.plus8.com if it is still up.

    I think the secret to using a 303 properly is to aviod the temptation to go over the top (the squelch gets WAY TOO ANNOYING) but it is a lot more flexible than it might seem at first.

    And yeah, I think someone mentioned, Rebirth (used to be www.propellorhead.com) sells a software emulator with 2 303s, a 909 and an 808 for the drums. Quite good fun and a damsight cheaper than real 303s which seem to be doubling in price every year.
  • you've heard positive education, eh? I didnt think anyone would pick up on that one.... are you from the UK? It would be truly remarkable if Slam made an impact in the US. I think they did a pressure funk tour last year, but they're hardly in the same coverage league as, say, Paul Oakenfold. Thank god!! :)

    all of the tracks you mention are classics (though i've never heard of big stone lake, what's the cat-number?)

    Suppose i'll have to wait till the next related music topic comes round before I can get more techno references in... !
  • Thanks for the story on one of my favorite hardware hackers.Anyone interested in picking up a soldering iron and building and or modding synths and theremins can find a wealth of info,parts and kits at www.paia.com [paia.com] home of more hardware geeks

  • I had initial troubles with the .au uLaw version, but got it to go with a little work in an old version of goldwave.

    Thus I've converted Bowie's .au file to 8KHz 32bit MP3. The full 1.2 MB file (4+ minutes) as well as a quarter meg 60 second snippet are available here. [dyndns.org]

    Hmmm, shouldn't have called the page filename 'Moog' I guess. Oh, 15KB/s maximum bandwidth, from my home ADSL box. Be gentle :)

    ---

  • I sincerely hope that you're trolling in this post and you aren't at all serious!

    Okay, well, I was trolling, but it's an opinion I've heard many times before and still gets my goat. And yes, I'm a huge dance music fan, and I do write it myself (well, try anyway) so I'm not a complete bigot. Although the techno nazi is still alive and kicking where I live :)

    Especially in detroit, stuff coming out from Underground Resistance, Planet E, Transmat and Metroplex are as close to undiscovered genius as you can get, involving a great deal of raw creativity and expression.

    Agreed - I've got Juan Atkin's MasterMix Vol 1. here at work on MP3, and a few bits of Detroit at home - Jeff Mills, Fumiya Tanaka etc. Personally I'm more of a hard techno and acid techno fan, but I like it all. And there is some amazing stuff being produced nowadays, a hell of a lot more creative than simple 4 to the floor stuff.

    And, having tried to write some of this stuff myself I can agree that it's a lot more difficult than it looks - you need a solid understanding of how synths work and how music is made to get anything decent. And my personal opinion is that dance music as a whole is far closer musically to "classical" music than anything else we hear today. After all, most guitar-based bands have a fairly simple structure - a drummer, 2 leads, 1 bass and a vocalist (or variations on this theme) whereas dance music can have dozens of separate layers built up on top each other.

  • There is a moog-influenced station at mp3.com [mp3.com] looking for mp3 submissions from moog-influenced artists. Some interesting stuff here, if you're into analog-techno.
    --
  • I was present at that same lecture. As I recall, the commercials were absolute cheese! Total 60's shag style stuff, and the mood music was dead on!
    As for the Humanities, it is boring!!!



  • Aren't they just 'pushing buttons'? I suppose when it comes to trolls, though, that they're just 'pushing buttons' to try to
    push other people's buttons.



    Seth
  • Wakeman is good, but the true master is Keith Emerson.

    ...the solo at the end of 'Lucky Man'...

  • Kraftwerk, Can, Pere Ubu... If we're going to talk about krautrock route, then let's not forget Neu and Faust. Lovely music. It's good to see their infulence is still around in the likes of Stereolab and Tortoise.

  • This guy is an Übergeek. He discussed some research he did on "mind input devices". (for the Air Force?) This would be the "thinking cap" variety, not an "implanted electrode". He concluded that such a device is not possible at this time because detectable changes in brain activity occur too slowly to be useful.
  • Anyone ever heard of Stereolab? Prolly not, they don't get played on the radio too much. But they have a rabid following and are enormous fans of the fat analog sound. They use Moog's of all shapes and sizes, farfisas, and just about anything else they can get thier hands on. And it's all Brilliant. Influenced by punk, bossanova, 50's space age lounge ( Esquivel), and modern day dance music (jungle/tech-step, trip hop, disco-house) they are what is RIGHT with music today. OH yeah, and their songs get used to sell cars too... (but that's another story)

    To blame an INSTRUMENT, a piece of technology for the downfall of modern music is as ignorant as it is ridiculous. All technology can do is bring more power into the hands of individuals. It is up to those individuals whether or not they decide to innovate and pursue art or just mimic everyone else in the quest for the almighty dollar/rupie/pound sterling/lire/yen/etc. To further calrify, here is a link for the FAMOUS TB-303 [vintagesynth.com], a hack if ever there was one. This crappy analog bass synth, when tweaked in just the right way, came up with sounds that couldn't be fit into any preconceived notion of music. It opened doors. IT didn't lead us to Britanny Spears... OTHER HUMANS did.

  • Yeah, the bulk of the music out these days is overproduced crap put out by uninspired corp execs, and yes a lot of it is perpetrated with a synth. Is it the Snyth's fault? Nope, the synth is a tool. Whether its tool for evil or good is up to the user. I reccomend exploring some of Tangerine Dream's work--Miracle Mile is personal fav--, Vangelis, Kraftwerk, of course Jean Michaeil Jarre. I also like the Moog Cookbook's take on various pop tunes.

  • One of the weirdest concerts I have every been to was one where the punk band had a theremin player. Its was cool, this guy had put together a theremin small enough to strap on like a guitar. I can't even begin to describe 'Holiday in Cambodia' as played on a theremin.

  • Sure its offtopic, but hey - it should be addressed.
    I agree competely...come on Slashdot! If you have 2 articles on the "Netscape engineers are weenies" non-existant backdoor, then you can at least tell us when Red Hat has a backdoor. Heck, you should have the Red Hat one more than the Microsoft ones because of the Linux bias here. More people here run RH over Windows, so I think they would like to know when they need these updates.
    Kinda disappointed...
  • Of course one must respect Robert Moog for having invented Moog synthesizers. They sound amazingly well; too bad we've heard all the sounds it can possibly make a thousand times each by now. But don't blame him for that, just like you don't blame Bob Mould for Better than Ezra and such.

    But, as much as he should be respected, his remarks about an ongoing trend towards simplified interfaces were way off mark. With very little experience, you can get a bunch of very decent sounds out of a Moog or (especially) a Minimoog. Just sit down and twiddle some knobs, and you've got instant Kraftwerk. It is very difficult, however, to program your own sounds into a modern synth, such as a Korg Z1 or a good software synthesizer like Generator. There's simply too many buttons to push. It's also much more difficult to sequence your notes and effects with software like Logic Audio (Cubase, well, that's indeed used to get Britney going. The Masters - Aphex Twin, Autechre, Funkstorung - use Logic because it's so much more flexible) than it is to play single-note leads on a keyboard.

    To me, this remark sounds like it's coming from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. Sure, he was very knowledgable and in touch with his times when he made the synthesizers he's known for, but by today's standards a moog-filter is hardly high-tech, and extremely unstable, as anyone who's used one can attest to. Times have moved on since then, however, and it sounds like Robert Moog hasn't moved on with them. Not that that should detract from his technological genius, but it is true. It took a genius to figure out the Moog synthesizer in the sixties, nowadays all it takes is a bunch of moderately paid engineers at a large-ish company to program the exact same sound into software (Generator) or a DSP chip (Nord Modular/Micro-modular, both of which are considerably cheaper and more flexible than any Moog ever was).

  • >>I'd like to see a return of music to the days before the synthesizer took over...

    This is a typically shortsighted argument.....and while we are burning our synthesisers lets get rid of all technologicy. After all, it's responsible for the decay of civilization (some would have us believe this). The fact is there was just as much garbage before the synthesiser 'took over'.... you just dont hear it anymore. Most bands who rely on their musicianship to sell their product have also been responsible for some of the biggest crimes against music.

    Why do you mention Brittany Spears and the charts? Yes, it's depressing to listen to but mainly for the worrying fact that our future generation is being weened on it. You don't have to listen to it do you?
    Look a little further, deeper and wider and you will find 1000's of examples of genius, fuelled by the Moog and its descendants...the scope is endless...witness.....

    Kraftwerk (heavy use)
    Can (sporadic use)
    Pere Ubu (twined into the fabric)

    When listening to the above three 'bands' you can can imagine the universe being endlessly dismantled and reassembled anyhow you like it.....the imagination and innovation make me believe (albeit temporarily) that 'Hey' the world may not be doomed.....

    Synthesisers, samplers and sequencers are just tools to make music in the same way that guitar, drums and bass are tools. It all depends on how the 'artist' uses them....could be an abomination or revelation either way. In the end, its your choice what you listen to.

  • Anyone interested can check out Best of Moog [bestofmoog.com]. It's a collection of the most popular Moog music from the heydey of Moog's era. Kind of maddening to listen to, but interesting nonetheless.
  • I was a "lucky man" when I attended a discussion at the Smithsonian in Washington D.C. on April 15th this year. Bob Moog was there to talk about early Synthesisers! Also attending, in deference to his friend Bob Moog, was Keith Emerson himself! He demonstrated a mini-moog (played a tarkus riff) and told a few funny stories too. Keith told us that the solo on the end of "Lucky Man" was a first take, and he was only fiddling around with the Moog, getting ready for a real solo. Afterwards, when the engineer and Greg Lake peered out from the control room and gave Keith the thumbs up, all Keith could do was ask "can't I do it again?". No, they said, its great! And there wasn't a spare track available to try again! The guy is amazing!

  • I have seen Mark's name on other Buena Vista shows, I just can't remember the titles.
    We all have to eat, even old musicians.

    I have kids, what is your excuse for watching Rugrats? ;]



  • I have loved synthesized music from the first time I heard it. Some favorites through the years have been Devo, Gary Numan, and Robert Fripp, who has experimented with synth-guitar.


    How the world turns dept.
    Mark Mothersbaugh, formerly of Devo, can be seen in the credits for Buena Vista TV (Rugrats), a Disney subsidiary.
    Ugh!

  • 13-21 year old girls "buy" records at music stores. Geeks download MP3's for nada.

    One generates revenue that continues the trend: money generated by the sale of less than admirable music (N'Sync for instance)is enough to convince record company execs to create additional acts.

    The other downloads music, does not pay for it therefore is not a revenue stream.

    Quick. Name all five members of New Kids on the Block.
  • hey, the Kraftwerk [kraftwerk.com] website is fun. I wish there was more there, but you'll have fun.
  • your talking about synth... yet no one mentioned Aphex Twin, or Digital Hardcore Recordings... odd. KMFDM kicks, for some reason MDFMK is sounding a bit more... pop to me.
  • Moog was/is cool but the music for Forbidden Planet (along with some others)was executed with Theremins (using vacuum tube technolgy) invented in the 30's. The inventor was a Russian whose name transliterates into "Theremin". If memory serves, and it genrally does, these things are still available in kit form. I think RCA manufactured them at one time. IICat

  • Kraftwerk (Score:2)

    by Nick ( 109 )
    I really don't care how a song was made, or how much money was made, or who listens to it, as long as I think it sounds good.

    Kraftwerk started back in 1968 before the synthesizer, they invented techno and they had to generate some pretty whacked out sounds using primitive techniques. Now any eight year old can make the same sounds, but you know what? If it sounds good to me, I don't care!
  • Reading the article, you'll see that even the Beatles used synths.

    I'm taking a course called Introduction to Digital Music, which is taught by one of Moog's "beta testers"/"guinea pigs". (Professor David Borden). Since beginning, I've noticed that almost every piece of music since the 80s that I've listened to has a synth. (Examples include Genesis, Phil Collins, and Van Halen among many others.)

    And in modern days, there are those who are just "8-year-old-button pushers" *coughcoughSpearscoughcough*, and then there are those who are extremely skilled artists. (Orbital, Juno Reactor, Propellerheads to name a few). Haven't listened to Aphex Twin yet, but I intend to.

    I nearly had a chance to participate in a videoconference with Keith Emerson and Robert Moog in addition to a few other people. Unfortunately, it was the same time as one of my exams. DAMN!
  • For those that are interested in Moog music, the Dark Side of the Moog series on FAX Records [hyperreal.org] out of Germany.. it's a collaboration between Pete Namlook, Klaus Schulze, and on a couple of the albums in the series, Bill Laswell. Really interesting stuff. Dark Side of the Moog I has been re-released a number of times on Ambient World records, as well as a couple of other labels, and is a fantastic example of what the Moog organ can do.

    -s
  • Bach's music was kind of unique because he was writing during the Baroque period, a time when music began its transition from being played in private residences to larger public performances.

    He certainly was the master of the counterpoint, that's to be sure. It's small wonder why the two-part and three-part Inventions Bach wrote some so great on modern electronic keyboards. ;)
  • I think the album of "strange Moog country music" was SONIC SEASONINGS.

    The reason I LOVED SWITCHED-ON BACH was that you could HEAR many notes with greater clarity than you did with traditional instruments. Brandenbug Concerto No. 3 was particularly amazing--listening to the synthesizer version and then listening to the version done by a traditional orchestra was like putting a muffler on your ear the second time around. The third movement of this Concerto just blew me away at just how Carlos breathed new life into an old piece of classical music.

    In fact, IMHO Bach's music is perhaps one of the very few composers whose music could be adapted to almost any musical instrument. Well, that's not such a stretch given what I said earlier about Bach writing music for practically every important musical instrument in his lifetime.
  • "Walter (now Wendy) Carlos."

    I suppose like many others, the poster still find the whole sex change thing it a bit wierd. I was really into electronic music a (ahem) few years ago and remember when the Carlos's Playboy interview came out. The reaction of a bunch of musician friends was ``Who-o-o-o-a! What the???''.

    I still find it a bit, oh, I don't know, amusing when I pull out my vinyl copy of ``Switched On Bach'' by Walter and the CD re-issue which is from Wendy. Anyway... I saw an interview with Wendy on TV a few years ago; pretty interesting.
    --

  • I took a class on electronic music back in the late '70s (or was it early '80?). The class used a Moog 2 (if memory serves). Using it was a blast. I had a TEAC 1/4" tape deck that I would record things on then take the tapes to the lab to run through their battery of effects, make loops, run tapes through the Moog filters. Gawd, it was fun. (I still have the tapes I made back then but one of these days the TEAC is gonna up and die on me :-) )

    You could do some very interesting things but you had to be willing to get very ``hands-on''. Unlike today, where kids pick up the latest keyboard from Casio and press a button to get the latest stock synthesizer sound. I'd rather that my daughters had the chance to work with a Moog than one of those things. Let 'em twiddle the knobs and create a sound that no one's ever made or heard before. But I'd have to put an addition on the house to have some place to put the beast. I guess a PC with a MIDI port'll have to do until the construction loan goes through.
    --

  • By the way..

    I have a box here at the apartment that I picked up from the University of Arizona Surplus auction.. Its a big honkin' patchcord synthesizer from the late 60's or early 70's, originally designed as a hearing tester.

    It has a 100-step programmable sequencer, 4 VCO's, 3 bypass filters, AGC control and a few other oddities. The name on the front is "Starkey Hearing Sciences Laboratory".

    If anyone has any information about this box, or this company, please contact me. I've figured out how to play it and all, but im more interested in its history than anything else. Any ex-Starkey Labs employees out there?


    Bowie J. Poag
    Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://metalab.unc.edu/propaganda [unc.edu])

  • "Unfortunately, the trend is toward user interfaces that are simpler, not more complex. Most people don't care enough about the increased possibilities for expression to sacrifice years of their lives mastering an instrument," says Keislar. "They want to press a button and hear music come out. As a result, such systems are probably destined to remain experimental, even if elegant."

    I think that particular quote applies to a lot more than just the design of an electronic musical instrument. It seems to be quite true of almost everything nowadays. Most people would be horrified, for example, to have to learn to use a command line over some kind of WIMP GUI. Or imagine a video recorder which was controlled with a keyboard and cron jobs, for example. Sure, geeks would love it, but people in general wouldn't touch the thing with a barge pole (so to speak), and either it would fail, or someone would make a much more simple design.

    Nice article about Moog, I didn't know anything about his history really... I've experimented with a friend's minimoog though, playing with the sounds in that is almost like Kraftwerk in a box. ;-)

  • I recently participated in a local music festival (SpoofFest 2000) and got a chance to see an older 'classic' Moog. A friend was using it in his parody cover of Pink Floyd. Very cool. All the keyboard geeks were drooling over it. :-)

    If any of you are ever in Milwaukee when SpoofFest is going on, definetely check it out... it is always a great show. They practically brought the house down this year!

    Thad

  • There's a digital version for music DSP nuts in the article by Tim Stilson called "Analyzing the Moog VCF with consideration to digital implementation". You can find the paper somewhere around Stilson's homepage [stanford.edu] HINT: it's really simple to implement (~10 LOC), you can get my implementation from deja.com by searching comp.dsp.

  • The Beatles introduced a new Moog in the majestic "Because," on "Abbey Road," the last album they recorded.
    Actually the first use of a synth in rock was, believe it or not, the Monkees. On their album "Pisces, Aquarius, Capricorn, & Jones, Ltd." [released 11/67] the songs "Daily Nightly" & "Star Collector" used one. In fact the Beatles borrowed this very synth from them to use on "Abby Road". Check with any reputable rock historian to verify.
  • Simple and intuitive interfaces work just fine and as long as powerusers have access to command prompts I don't see a problem. If Keisler thinks there aren't any complex instruments out there he hasn't been to his local music store lately, check out some of the high-end synths for a dazzling display of features and buttons.

    I think what he's responding to is how electronica is heavily loop based and you can literally make a song with only pressing a few buttons. It won't be original, but it'll be cliched enough to dance to.

  • And let me add the Fifth Element to your list!
    Excellent work with synthesizers on that one. I'm not talking about the "Ruby Rod" techno stuff (which is also pretty cool) but the various motives used throughout.
  • As long as you can produce interesting and endlessly varying results with a simple interface, more power to them (the manufacturers that is). Many synths don't though. In fact my wavestation SR has a simple interface (a few buttons on the front) which actually cripples it, because it's a pain to program it to its full potential, without 3rd party software like UniSYN. It's an amazing amount of programmability stuff behind a crappy interface.
    But look at an acoustic instrument. A harmonica. Hear what John Popper does with a simplistic interface (no buttons, no knobs, just a bunch O'holes!)
    I could demonstrate to you an amazing amount of sounds that can be generated from a simple frame drum played with hands. Glen Velez can do it even better.
    Now it's easy to get into an acoustic vs. electronic instrument argument. I'm a fan of both of course.
    But ideally it's not the interface itself that really matters, it's what you can do with it.
  • I sincerely hope that you're trolling in this post and you aren't at all serious!

    The fact that the best example that you can come up with for synthesized music is 'britanny spears' and that production can be done by pressing 'a few buttons' shows an ignorance that beggars beleif, and is either a) a joke/troll or b) a post by some MTV following, 13 year old cultural robot.

    The only interesting and exciting music being made today is done using synthesizers. Some of the most amazing music is coming out of your own american backyard and you have been steadfastly ignoring it for the past 10-15 years.

    Detroit Techno and Chicago House for instance contain more intelligence and originality than an infinite number of bush/blink182 or whatever carbon copy songs that MTV is shoving down your throat right now.

    Especially in detroit, stuff coming out from Underground Resistance, Planet E, Transmat and Metroplex are as close to undiscovered genius as you can get, involving a great deal of raw creativity and expression.

    Creativity and Expression - That's what I value. Unlike yourself I'm not an elitist or a traditionalist. I want to hear something that makes me sit up and go 'wow' and I dont care if it was done using 'proper instruments'.

    In a way I can see where you are coming from - since I understand the *popular* american dance scene is indeed utterly turgid and full of dire trance tracks put together in 5 seconds using Cubase and a cute sample that says 'ecstacy' or some such.

    But, I would not dare suggest that computer scientists should chuck out their PCs and return to vaccum-tube mainframes and punchcards because they are harder to use, and thus the results must be better. Do you code exclusively in assembler? I bet you dont. (in this case the results might actually be better, i concede)

    I suggest you educate yourself before you open your mouth on this topic again.

    www.kraftwerk.com
    www.transmat.com
    www.submerge.com
    www.hyperreal.org

  • I think that particular quote applies to a lot more than just the design of an electronic musical instrument

    Actually, for synths, I disagree. At present the trend is for more systems with more and more knobs and other performance controllers. Not only that, but the hardwired configuration of oscillator>filter>amp>effects is being superceded by a much more 'modular' approach to the point where you get to mix and match virtual synth components on the fly, say a vocoded sample, through a software emulation of a Moog low-pass filter, through a beat-triggered digital dealy and into a multi-stage amplifier, with multiple low-frequency osciallators controlling various input parameters.

    I wouldnt call that simpler, at all :)

  • Yeah, the TB-303 [tb-303.org] can produce some truly amazing sounds, especially with a little bit of effects magic slapped on afterwards. I'm mainly into acid techno stuff, and some of the 303 sounds on that are truly unbelievable, covering a lot of the aural spectrum from bassy growls to soft pad-type sounds to metallic rings.

    The trouble is, they are a complete nightmare to program and use. My old housemate had one, and I used to spend a fair bit of time playing with it, but it takes a long time just to get used to the step mode way of entering rhythms and then trying to tweak the filter and accent. Saying that though, I think the accent feature of the 303 is why it has lasted so well - it's quite different from most synths - the decay on the accent is unique AFAIK.

  • Not all synthesized music is "popular" (i.e. overhyped by record labels trying to make money off mediocre-at-best "bands").

    I'd like to see a return of music to the days . . . when music required skill and talent to create and produce.

    You should check out "less popular" (i.e. not overhyped by record labels trying to make money off mediocre-at-best "bands") groups like Kraftwerk, Apoptygma Berzerk, MDFMK (KMFDM), Spahn Ranch, Front Line Assembly... I could go on... but this isn't my field of expertise, and five minutes on Napster will give you a halfway decent taste for what I'm talking about (or would if 99% of the MP3s on there weren't so poorly ripped and/or encoded).
    ---

  • Most of Wendy Carlos' early recordings have now been remastered (by Wendy) and are available as the "Switched On Box Set". Check Wendy's web site [wendycarlos.com] for more info.
  • OK, I saw mention of Rick Wakeman, Fresh Aire, and others, but no Keith Emerson?!?

    Keith IMO was one of the all time greats, but seems to be largely forgotten these days. Back in their time Emerson, Lake, and Palmer were big enough to take the London Symphony Orchestra on tour & spend 2 million bucks making an album. These days, all you ever hear on the radio from ELP is 'Lucky Man' which doesn't give the slightest clue as to how fscking brilliant a keyboardist Emerson was.

    If you really want to hear the Moog tortured and played to its limit, check out any of their first 5 albums - ELP, Tarkus, Pictures at an Exhibition, Trilogy, or Brain Salad Surgery.

  • Theremin program for Windows laptops (Score:3)

    by jht ( 5006 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2000 @04:06AM (#1112348) Homepage Journal
    The folks over at Synaptics (the touchpad company) wrote a Theremin program for Windows - the link is here [synaptics.com]. It's a cool little toy that kind of gives people an idea of what the instrument is about.

    - -Josh Turiel

  • Theremin (Score:3)

    by DreamerFi ( 78710 ) <john@sint[ ].com ['eur' in gap]> on Tuesday April 25, 2000 @02:10AM (#1112349) Homepage
    This [thereminworld.com] site has more info on the Theremin synth mentioned in the article, even including schematics and other info to build one yourself! I've seen the Theremin being played on a Jean-Michel Jarre concert, and boy, that's weird!

    -John

  • Elisha Gray scammed again (Score:3)

    by Cplus ( 79286 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2000 @03:25AM (#1112350) Homepage Journal
    The article does not mention the real innovator of electronic instruments, the man who invented the oscillator, a basic component of most synths. Just as he the confusion arose surrounding the invention of the telephone (as well as long court battles), so we see that Elisha Gray is once again losing credit for his inventions. The first electronic instrument created was not the theremin or the telharmonium, but rather Gray's Musical Telegraph, created in the 1870's. He tried to make it work over telephone lines. Read more here [obsolete.com].

  • The influence of "Switched-On Bach" (Score:4)

    by RayChuang ( 10181 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2000 @06:18AM (#1112351)
    What I find interesting about all the comments about Bob Moog's synthesizers here is that only ONE person mentioned Wendy (neé Walter) Carlos' major breakthrough album, SWITCHED-ON BACH.

    Remember, up until SWITCHED-ON BACH, electronic musical instruments were regarded more as curiosities and things to create "avant-garde" music. When SWITCHED-ON BACH was released in late 1968, it was a HUGE, HUGE breakthrough for synthesizers in general. For one thing, it incredibly refreshing to hear the music of Johann Sebestian Bach in such an innovative manner. You could hear with great clarity how Bach mastered the use of the counterpoint in music.

    This album was (IMHO) proof that Bach is perhaps the greatest music composer of all time, because Bach composed superb music for everything from clavicord, harpsicord, string quartets, small orchestras, big orchestras with a choir, pipe organs and even the early pianos.

  • Bob Moog and others.. (Score:4)

    by Bowie J. Poag ( 16898 ) on Tuesday April 25, 2000 @04:18AM (#1112352) Homepage

    While Bob Moog was important (and does rule), there's also another guy whom Moog worked with in the late 60's and early 70's who is probably the biggest unsung hero in the history of electronic music.

    Hop over to RaymondScott.com [raymondscott.com] and have a look. This guy built a goddamn self-programmable synthesizer out of thousands of pieces of discarded telephone switching equiptment in his basement before the era of MIDI. A 6 foot tall, 30-foot long array of telephone switching relays, tone circuits and oscillators to be exact.

    Scott is also the person credited with inventing the sequencer, and ambient electronic music in the early 1960's..A double-album set of pure electronic music designed for babies to listen to, believe it or not.

    For those of you who want to hear what the giant array of telephone relays sounds like, go here [unc.edu]. Decompress the file and cat it to >/dev/audio ...its crude, but its all I can do on short notice. :) Its terrible quality, but, thats what buying CD's are for. I basically pointed my laptop at my stereo and recorded it straight off a console prompt. Hehehe..



    Bowie J. Poag
    Project Founder, PROPAGANDA For Linux (http://metalab.unc.edu/propaganda [unc.edu])

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