MPAA Files Another Injunction Against 2600 177
A number of people have written in with the news that the MPAA [?] has filed another injunction in the DeCSS case. This time around, they've filed for an injunction against 2600 seeking to stop 2600 from linking to the DeCSS Source Code. Interestingly enough for both (and us, who are in a similar situation) a Judge recently ruled that deep linking was legal. Hopefully, this will enable a better defense.
This doesn't seem difficult to solve (Score:1)
DeCSS is clearly a tool used to circumvent copyright, even if it has "legitimate" uses to some users. The courts are supporting this view.
The courts, though, have also ruled that code is speech. That's a constitutional right. And code in itself isn't a tool until compiled.
So, if 2600 could kindly acquire and post the source code to their site, they'd not only undercut the MPAA arguments, but their free speech challenge could be used to force the MPAA into court, where their DMCA arguments could be trumped by the First Amendment and, ideally, lost (along the way taking the DMCA down for the unconstitutional nonsense it is). And any liability would rightfully be transferred to the individual (who can then compile and erase binaries as needed :)
Re:This should be a walk-over... (Score:1)
None of the precedents you cite really apply here. For a precedent to apply, the current case has to be similar enough to a previous ruling that there is no difference under the law.
1. Interfaces cannot be protected.
Microsoft and Apple battled over user interfaces. The injuction had nothing whatsoever to do with user interfaces.
2. Source code is protected by the 1st Amendment.
But computer programs themselves; i.e. DeCSS, are not. Besides, once again, this relates to the DeCSS case and not the 2600 one.
3. A link is not the content.
Deep linking? That's not what the case said. The case said that you can legally link to anywhere in a site you please, no matter what the proprietor of the site would prefer. So once again, the precedent is not relevant.
4. US vs Microsoft ?!?
Come on, I don't think 2600 is going to win this case based on anti-trust laws. Neither is Jon Johansen.
5. The ability to play back is NOT proof of the ability to record.
Again, not relevant. This has nothing to do with 2600 linking intentionally to content previously deemed illegal.
The truth is, there is no precedent to this case. That is the scary part, though. If the court decides 2600 is trying to just circumvent a court order and prohibits them from even linking to DeCSS, this could be used as a precedent in further cases. This is very dangerous.
As has been pointed out many times here, this could make EVERYONE liable for EVERYTHING that is on the net.
i.e. Yahoo! linked me to a porn site when I searched for "Chocolate Chip Cookies", and I was deeply offended, so where's my $89 million in emotional damages?
Re:How much is illegal? (Score:1)
#include <stdio.h>
Whoops, I think I just broke the law.
*grr* (Score:1)
86% of Americans would ban water! (Score:1)
If 2600 loses this one - Great Minds Think Alike (Score:1)
Anywayz - here's what's really interesting about this to me - not so much that Yahoo, etc could get in trouble for linking to 2600 if 2600 gets in trouble for linking to people who are linking to DeCSS...but the fact that if they got in trouble for that and a judge ruled a site responsible for the links on sites they link to theoretically EVERY site on the Internet (except one that has NO links) would be in violationg of some US law somewhere. I wish I could remember what it said, but wasn't there a story on
the judge said linking is ok (Score:1)
___
Wired is Wrong - There is no Legal Linux DVD (Score:1)
Chances are, as rapidly as Linux changes, without an open source solution, there never WILL be a Linux DVD closed sourced solution.
What happens when the 2.4 Kernel comes out. Video4Linux is Kernel level programs.
Re:It was down before the /. story (Score:1)
Muahahaha (Score:1)
http://hackphreak.org/decss/ [hackphreak.org]
-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?
Re:Hmmmm (Score:1)
-=Bob
Re:86% ... water! ^H^H^H^H^H^Hdihydrogen monoxide (Score:1)
http://www.circus.com/~nodhmo/ [circus.com]
http://www.dhmo.org/ [dhmo.org] This one is their own domain
Melvin
--
"Situation's changed, Jules...Take my buffalo gun and hand me my mime rifle." -The Far Side
Slightly OT: 2600 Accessible? (Score:1)
I thought source code was free speech (Score:1)
Source code is free speech. Post it everywhere.
Lockpicking (was Re:Driving Miss Valenti) (Score:1)
Actually, it's more like publishing a book on how to pick locks, with a listing of stores which supply the necessary tools. Hosting the DeCSS code itself is closer to handing out the lockpicking tools than is posting a link.
Re:who needs permission? (Score:1)
great!! we're having a bit of a dry spell over here...
Re:Slightly OT: 2600 Accessible? (Score:1)
Re:This doesn't seem difficult to solve (Score:1)
Deep-linking case? (Score:1)
Deep-linking relates to whether or not you have the right to point to a specific page at foo.com, instead of pointing to http://foo.com/index.html, as Foo, Inc. would like you to. It doesn't have a whole lot to do with this case-- all the participants are voluntarily mirroring the source code, and the material is not allowed on the linking party's web site.
If, as Jack Valenti and his lawyers say, this is the same as having it hosted at the 2600.com domain, this *could* have implications toward deep-linking. That is, if linking to a page and mirroring the same page are considered equivelent actions by the law, then that would mean that by linking to copyrighted material, you have (in the eyes of the law) stolen that person's copyrighted material and placed it on your own site.
But the deep-linking case seems to be a totally different area.
IANAL, though. Any arguments that show how the deep-linking decision *could* help 2600?
----
I have come to a conclusion about life... I am more
mentally stable than any of these activists or
"Distribution" is the key word... (Score:1)
IANAL, but I'm not even hopeful. Call me a pessimist, but I don't think that 2600 is going to come out of this one vicorious. The judge is likely going to tell them to stop linking to copies of the 2600 source.
Why? Because 2600 still is still a major point of "distribution" for the code. Hell, I've used their list of mirrors once or twice when I wanted to show friends what this software *really is* (i.e., not an evil "hacker tool that has no legitimate purpose"). 2600 doesn't have the source code stored locally, but that doesn't mean they aren't "distributing" the program to others (at least, not in the eyes of the MPAA and the judge).
Remember, the MPAA requested the injunction because they wanted to stop 2600 from distributing DeCSS. So if linking to material (with an expressed intent to make it available to others) is considered a method of distribution by the courts, then the court can say that 2600 is distributing the code. And since the court has already issued an injunction against one method of distribution, issuing an injunction against another method is what the court would be *expected* to do.
Mind you, I don't think that linking is the same as distributing. But if the MPAA presents the case strongly enough, 2600 doesn't stand a chance. What we need are strong, logical arguments as to *why* linking is not a method of distribution.
Any ideas?
----
I have come to a conclusion about life... I am more
mentally stable than any of these activists or
Re:It is illegal in the state of Michigan... (Score:1)
I encourage anyone with a link to the details to follow up this post w/ relevant info.
Re:Driving Miss Valenti (Score:1)
R-12 requires a license to obtain in the US.
Re:Driving Miss Valenti (Score:1)
If you have the right kind of burner, you can already do a bitwise copy of the disc. No DeCSS needed. If you are putting it on tape or anything else, you just pipe the output of your DVD player into your VCR. I suppose it could help, but there are much cheaper/easier ways to copy DVDs.
Next thing you know, you'll tell us that freon should be illegal because car thieves use it to get rid of the club in a heartbeat.
Re:Free Speech Allows This (Score:1)
For that matter, there are a lot of publications which describe how to make many dangerous things, from catapults to go-karts...
Re:Deep-linking case? (Score:1)
One would hope that, in that case, the judge realizes Valenti's argument holds about as much water as a cheesecloth (and is about as practical as wet cheesecloth, too.) A link on one site to another site cannot in any way constitute ownership or responsibility for the content found in the link. It's fundamentally incorrect, dammit. If Valenti truly believes this to be so, his worldview is incredibly screwed. If Valenti believes this, then we should all only have links to our own content and material to avoid getting in trouble if we, god forbid, link to something questionable. I better remove any Slashdot links I have on any of my personal web stuff cause I sure as hell don't want to be the one who ends up owning all the troll stuff.
Between this and the Eyes Wide Shut debacle, I've decided that the MPAA does not exist for any kind of practical good in this country.
Way to go! and add mine . . . (Score:1)
himi
--
Re:This should be a walk-over... (Score:2)
You talk as if DeCSS is contraband of some sort. It's not. It isn't illegal at all, at least for now. There is just a list of individuals and/or entities that are prohibited by injunction from distributing it. 2600 was just telling people where they can find sites that are not prohibited from distributing DeCSS. Therefore, these people are able to obtain the software legally.
hmm... (Score:2)
I think this is pretty similar to what 2600 was doing. Except that they are linking to sites that are legally distributing DeCSS. It is legal for them to do so until they receive a court order to cease distribution of the code. So, while 2600 is prohibited from distributing the code themselves, there is no reason they can't tell you where you can legally obtain the code. Anyone find fault with this logic or legal guesswork?
what I'd like to know... (Score:2)
Define "traffic" in this case. How does telling someone where they can legally obtain the DeCSS software from a site that is legally allowed to distribute the software constitute trafficking?
Re:Free Speech Allows This (Score:2)
I think a link is more than 'telling someone where it can be found'.
Actually that is exactly all it is. If the person has the proper tool, in this case a browser, the browser will do the work of making that link a clickable entity and take them to the site where they can download the software, legally I might add, since the sites that 2600 is linking to have not been ordered by the court not to distribute DeCSS. Therefore, they can legally provide the source to anyone who wants it.
try again.. (Score:2)
The people downloading the software are not breaking the law, so 2600 is not helping anyone break the law. The sites that are being linked to are not prohibited from distributing the DeCSS software because the MPAA has not gotten an injunction against them. Therefore they can legally distribute the software and the people downloading it are not breaking the law.
Why the word games? (Score:2)
Why doesn't the MPAA just come out and say it. "We hereby expressly prohibit you from doing anything with this DVD that we don't want you to do." End of story. Instead they try using vague laws to take away our fair use rights. I wish their losses were a hell of a lot more than $2.5 billion. They deserve it.
Re:This should be a walk-over... (Score:2)
2. Source code is protected by the 1st Amendment.
Is HTML considered source code? It's doesn't really do anything until it's interpreted by a browser.
Re:Driving Miss Valenti (Score:2)
Next thing you know, you'll tell us that freon should be illegal because car thieves use it to get rid of the club in a heartbeat.
Freon IS illegal, isn't it? Maybe I missed some sarcasm or something.
Re:This is tied to the last thread. (Score:2)
Actually, the legality of using DeCSS in the course of exercising your fair use rights has yet to be determined by a court of law.
Picking on 2600.com (Score:2)
Remember that 2600.com is the same site that spent the last few years screaming for the releas of "The worlds most dangerus Hacker".
The last time this hapend was when Lary Filth ( AKA Lary Flint of Hustler Magazine ) was sued for slander vulgarity etc...
The Times and the Post stud byhim in there own interest. Where are VA, MSNBC and ZDNET now ? This WILL come back to haunt you all.
Re:Please allow me to introduce myself... (Score:2)
The legality of putting up such a site isn't important - you would be breaking the law by scouring the net for kiddie porn, and that is how you would be prosecuted. If you put up such a site, and allowed individuals instead to submit links, I suspect your site would be kept alive by law enforcement agencies looking for such content.
Your ISP might find you in violation of your TOS, though, and I'm sure Johnny Law would find some way to shut you down, once you outlived your usefulness.
In any case, drawing a parallel between DeCSS and child pornography is specious, as I'm not aware that DeCSS had been ruled as contraband yet. I'm only aware of preliminary injunctions against certain website operators. The (il)legal status of kiddie porn, however, is well-established.
-Isaac
Please allow me to introduce myself... (Score:2)
So... what if I put up a whole page of _links_ to child pornography. Call it www.kiddiesex.com, but I don't host any of the images. However, I scour the net every day to find images, and keep my links up to date, sort of a convenient one-stop-shop for your kiddie porn needs.
Would this be legal?
It's not really any different from the DeCSS case (as far as linking issues go) - the material linked to has been declared illegal, at least in the US. Now, you may not like the fact that it's illegal, but if it is, I imagine that you're not immune because you simply linked to it.
What do you think?
---
Re:Please allow me to introduce myself... (Score:2)
In short, the DeCSS source code is not illegal yet, pending the outcome of a formal trial.
-jwb
Hmmmm (Score:2)
-=Bob
routing oddities -- just paranoia [or IS it ?] (Score:2)
% date
Wed Apr 5 19:21:51 BST 2000
%
% ping www.2600.com
ping: unknown host www.2600.com
%
% nslookup 2600.com
Server: tr505.mediaconsult.com
Address: 192.168.1.1
*** tr505.mediaconsult.com can't find 2600.com: Non-existent host/domain
%
Hmmm. Must be our ISP or us or me or something.
\a
--
Trial Date (Score:2)
Did anyone else see the latest EFFector? The trial is scheduled for December 5, 2000. Sheesh, I had no idea that it would be so far into the future. That means that these injunctions last I long time. I know it's peanuts to them, but I really hope MPAA loses that $10k deposit they had to pay when the first injuction went into effect. When all is said and done, after at least 8 more months of suppression (and probably more), the defendants will deserve a lot more than just $10k.
Hey, EFF, if the judge actually grants this injuction, try to at least talk him into making MPAA put up more than just a token this time.
---
Analogies are, like, stupid (Score:2)
Ah, I see what you're saying. An analogy is like one of Stalin's speeches, distorting the truth. Explaining things by analogy is like me writing a program that computes a result, instead of using math to derive the result.
Yeah, I see what you mean. Using analogies is for the weak-minded; it's like making up a bunch of stuff when one can't think of anything truly relevant to say.
It's like running a bad joke into the ground.
(Moderators: don't mark this up as funny. That would be like marking something insightful down as a troll.)
---
Re:Power is suggestive. (Score:2)
Re:Free Speech Allows This (Score:2)
There is a very important difference here. In your analogy you were the one to place the "gun"/"code" there, not someone else. 2600 is not the one who is publishing the DeCSS code, but only the one pointing to where it can be found.
Re:Hmmmm (Score:2)
The deep linking ruling allows linking into a deep page in a site against the wishes of the site owner (where presumably, you could bookmark that link yourself). The MPAA argument is that if actually having the content is illegal (which they condend is the case for DeCSS) then having a link to another site with that content anywhere in the world is equivalent to having that content.
The defense 2600 (and the rest of us) will have to make is that the linking (deep or otherwise) is not the same as having the content yourself. The argument may be strengthened if the link is clear that it is another site (as is the case with 2600's links).
This is entirely separate from the argument that having content that reveals already reverse engineered technology that is already in the public domain is not in and of itself illegal, and is also separate from the argument that reverse engineered technology that has a primary purpose of enabling one to access media that they have already obtained legally is not in and of itself illegal. All these things are distinct arguments in this whole issue, and the final legal rulings could be a mix.
One thing we do need to address is the constant false information being spouted by Jack Valenti, CEO of MPAA. He persists in saying that the issue revolves around the copying of DVDs (supposedly to make an unencrypted copy even though copying an encrypted copy is what pirates are already doing) when in fact the truth of the issue (which can be found in MPAA court filings where they would be in legal hot water if they lie there) is that the issue revolves around the fact that DeCSS allows one to bypass the region coding system in CSS. Jack Valenti is lying to the news media in the hopes of gaining public sympathy (which if it were a genuine piracy case, he would get mine).
in addition to the court fights over the many legal issues in question, we also need to pursue the public media fight to combat the false and misleading propoganda generated by the MPAA (as well as RIAA on similar issues).
Re:Exactly how far has this gone? (Score:2)
One count of posession a pirated copy of a protected work.
One count of copying a protected work.
One count of circumventing the protective measures around the protected work.
One count of running software capable of circumventing the protective measures around the protected owrk.
One count of posessing above software.
One count of distributing said software.
And probably one count of illegal use of a computer, as the computer is now a 'tool of crime' or sometehing.
Re:This doesn't seem difficult to solve (Score:2)
Preliminary injunctions are to keep things alright UNTIL THE TRIAL can determine what is legal and what is not.
It is true that, *IF* the MPAA is correct, and this is illegal, that they stand to lose a lot more than the defendant.
This is not 'unconstitutional'. It is part of due process.
How it can be illegal. (Score:2)
He can ban you from discussing it with anyone. He can ban you from telling someone where to get it. He can ban you from communicating it's wherabouts by any means, to anyone.
Until the trial is over, of course.
A good analogy. (Score:2)
Re:Has Wired been compromised? (Score:2)
Well. Let's just look at it this way.
Did people make digital copies of DVD *before* DeCSS came along? *NO*. Why not? BECAUSE IT WAS ENCRYPTED.
Sure.. SOME pirates can purchase the $$$ equipment to do it... but does joe average univeristy kid? NO!
Now.. what with stuff like DivX (the algorithm, not the player) we see poeple slamming amazing quality movies (not quite DVD, but really really good) on a 650MB cdr.. and those movies came from where? converted from raw, decrypted dvd data.
So, actually, full-length movie copying *IS* just around the corner. Many people already have sizeable collections. And this is JUST the beginning.
Re:Free Speech+Free Link (Score:2)
How is this illegal? (Score:2)
Point #1
It is illegal for me to own pot just as it is illegal for me to have a copy of DeCSS. AFIAK there is nothing illegal about me NOT having pot and yet telling my friend that I know someone else who has pot and may be willing to part with it.
Point #2
The pot (hemp) people have their own magazine (High Times). They lobby Congress to legalize pot, talk about pot, how to use it, and sometimes where to get it and all that is covered by their first amendment rights. But somehow it is illegal for me to say, "I think CSS sucks and the MPAA are money grubbing bastards. We are trying to get this software made legal and in the meantime, as an expression of my first amendment rights to free speech, I'm thumbing my nose at the MPAA and here is where you can get this software" That's bullshit.
I guess its a good thing that no big companies make pot substitutes. Or pot access control software.
Skippy
Re:Power is suggestive. (Score:2)
Re:But this isn't 'deep linking'.. (Score:2)
How about the data: URL scheme? (Score:2)
If we are allowed to link to the DeCSS source code, are we allowed to link to it using the data: URL scheme that is defined in RFC 2397 [isi.edu]? That would, of course, be exactly the same as mirroring it; but there's no limit to the amount of hair-splitting that legal nonsense can lead us to.
If your browser supports the data: URL scheme (pretty damn unlikely, really), then you should be able to read this document [data].
Smell the b.s. (Score:2)
$2.5 billion?
$2.5 billion???
I'm not even sure twice that much has been made off actual DVD sales! If characters like the ones in the MPAA can get away with throwing around numbers like this, they'd better start saying just where this piracy is coming from. If they don't tell John Q. Public, we will.
DVD has been out for...a little over three years.
DeCSS has been out for...eight months.
In that time, the number of DVDs pirated using the utility can probably be counted on my left hand, not counting my thumb. I sure don't see a wave of DVD piracy in warez channels - over the summer, I was more likely to encounter VCD piracy, for obvious reasons. Even that's died off now.
$2.5 billion.
If the MPAA is serious about this number and not just pulling a Clinton, and if they were really, really serious about cracking down on piracy, they sure as hell wouldn't be bleating about a little utility that people are more interested in using to watch their own, legally-purchased movies than to Screw The Man. They would be pushing the feds to put pressure on piraters in the US, and nations that turn a blind eye to piracy. I'm forced to conclude the MPAA is either made up of hypocrites (quite likely), or outright liars (damn near proven).
I just might whip out my old "Stop the MPAA" posters and start covering Toronto in paper. Publications that repeat this stuff are going to get letters. Hell, I might produce a short feature on the case - I've always wanted to get started in freelancing. After all of the crap we've been through, trying to link a questionable $2.5 billion to DeCSS put me over the edge. The Big Lie is being told. Are we going to answer it, or sit here, preach to the converted and get squashed?
MPAA needs to sue itself (Score:2)
Well, let's see.
http://www.mpaa.org/about/
Click on Walt Disney company.
Drop down menu to the Go Network
Click Go to the Go Network
Type 2600 in the search field.
This Returns the URL
http://www.go.com/Titles?col=WC&qt=2600&svx=hom
And the first link is www.2600.com - the Hacker quarterly.
HOLY SHIT! The MPAA links iteself to the DeCSS code.
2600 is back up now (Score:2)
It was down before the /. story (Score:2)
what about search engines? (Score:2)
Just imagine the implications for them...
Re:Please allow me to introduce myself... (Score:2)
Linking is no more than a source-code way of exactly specifying the site under discussion, and we have good precedent that source code is legitimate expression.
If Microsoft Word were declared a controlled dangerous substance in some state (it's certainly more harmful than cannabis), it would still be legal to say "You can find out about Word at Microsoft's website"; it would be no different to say "Follow the link to find out about the software more evil than Satan himself [microsoft.com]."
Re:Information Wants To Be Free - "except mine" (Score:2)
It's exactly because that information wants to be free that those of us with privacy concerns don't dare let it out. My passwords want to run wild across the net, into the hands of every cracker; no law could stop their wild rampage. Therefore I must keep them tightly caged, and don't even share them with friends. My SSN wants to be spray-painted across billboards all over the world, where identity theives will take it for their own; once it gets out even the FBI and Secret Service couldn't stop it, so I must keep it well-leashed, not even divulging it to my doctor.
"Information want to be free" doesn't say what those affected by the information want - it's a value-neutral statement about an emergent property of data-flow in highly connected systems. You can't half-share a secret.
I think it was Twain who said "Two can keep a secret - if one of them is dead." Same thing, a billion times bigger.
Re:That would be the death of internet as we know (Score:2)
Yeah, but in the past, it's been possible to keep large organizations from doing illegal things (they're too visible and have too much at stake). That effectively kept the general public from finding out about it. There will always be a few people who knew about it before it was declared illegal, but if you can keep them to a dull roar, you've wiped it out as best you can. For instance, warez still takes some knowledge and persistence to get (the general population only knows the web and its pr0n banners... irc, hotline, etc. are usually only passed by word of mouth).
Now information travels much faster, so companies like Napster can get their products or services become known to the general public before the law can do anything about it.
(begin flame war about whether or not napster is illegal...)
--
Has Wired been compromised? (Score:2)
There is also this quote:
I object to the words "content protection" and "legal." The movie studio's actual idea of content protection is to control your use of content they produced even after you've bought it. The idea of content protection they are trying to put forth concerns "piracy" which impractical for DVDs using current technology. Note that even though I'm sure people will object to that statement, "but it will be practical someday!" the fact that casual piracy of DVDs is currently impractical is far better protection for content in an anti-piracy sence than the flimsy and pathetic protection offered by CSS. I object to the word legal because it implies that OpenDVD is illegal, as opposed to contested. It would be like calling a contested, unauthorized biography that was being tried in slander court an illegal biography. Again, the word legal is loaded in this context. Oh, and the quote from Lord Jack Valenti is of course absurd, a deliberate attempt to dumb down the concept of the Internet. I think most people should know what linking is, and they know it is essentially drawing a map rather than transporting. I could write a JavaScript that would be more like the transportation he refers too, i.e. click on my page and be automatically shunted to a page with deCSS content.Of course, this shouldn't be surprising coming from a magazine which has the headline, Geeks Protest, Nobody Comes [wired.com], which is literally untrue. (This is the correct use of the word "literally" in other words, saying "Nobody Comes" is a lie because there were actually people at the protest.)
Re:Slightly OT: 2600 Accessible? (Score:2)
Re:Definitely not (Score:2)
I believe the NFL was found to be a monopoly when it was sued by the players union. I don't see much structural difference between it and the MPAA.
Free Speech+Free Link (Score:2)
Of course, IANAL, but when is the US judicial system going to decide in favor of consumers instead of in favor of huge maney-making corporations? One gets tired waiting for a little sanity in the entire copyright/patent/money-grabbing mess that rages around Open Source...
Give it up! (Score:2)
Man, when are these crusty-old judge buffoons goign to get it.... getting the code off the net is impossible. I personally get an updated copy every few days, just in case it ever DOES go off line, i can upload it to a smany sites a s possible.
Someone should write a macro virus that saves the source code in a .txt file on everyones system :) That'd be cool.
Re:But this isn't 'deep linking'.. (Score:2)
I think it depends on whether they were linking directly to the source itself, or a web page that contained the source. I believe it should be legal to link to page which contains the source, either as a link or as text on the page, because you have no control over what's on the page. You could have a link to a page with somethign legal, and the owner of the page changes the links on the page and links to DeCSS or puts up kiddie porn pictures, or whatever illegal thing you can think of. You have no control over what is on the page, and could be linking to something illegal without ever knowing it (because the page was changed after you made your link). If you link directly to a file (either a picture in the kiddie porn example, or the DeCSS source code in this one) you know exactly what you are linking to. To use an example, in the first case, someone is asking you where they can buy a stolen watch, and you tell them to go and see Vinnie down at the corner. In the second example, they go and see Vinnie, and Vinnie hands you the gun, and you hand it to the person. You're personally involved in the transaction, not just pointing them in the right direction.
Oh but... (Score:2)
if Alice asks Bob where to buy cocaine and Bob tells her to go to Cathy and Cathy really is a coke dealer, then Alice has committed a crime (unless maybe if Bob was an investigative reporter or a cop and Alice was providing the information under the understanding that Bob wasn't actually looking to buy coke).
If I put up a sign in my window saying "There lives a coke dealer in the appartment across the street" Is that a crime? I don't tell a specific drug user how to get his stuff, I tell everyone including reporters and police.
(In reality I would have a hard time. If the drug dealer's goons don't get me, the Coca-Cola companys lawyers will :-)
Leading the credibility dance (Score:2)
As I see it this case is a match between two "divine" rights: Freedom of speech vs Right to property.
Now that is a hevyweight match indeed. Both sides have massive support, but nobody (I hope) wants any side to get knocked out.
So the key is to shift the attention to the other arenas, preferably one where your side has more support. "We" prefer focus on the "Little guy vs megacorp" match, the MPAA tries to point the cameras on "Law abiding citizen vs evil pirate"
The MPAA has the resources to spread the fight over many rings, we need to avoid losing fights.
(and when I say "we" I mean "I and those who agree with me")
intervideo DVD player FUD (Score:2)
So we've gone from announcement that a legal will be available soon to the press saying one is already available although it of course isn't available.
If you go to the Intervideo Website [intervideo.com], you will find no mention of Linux, a Linux player, or even any announcement on their News page.
Verdict? The Intervideo Announcement is part of an MPAA FUD campaign to weaken their opponents position
My other .sig is funny
Re:Exactly how far has this gone? (Score:2)
What? I hate to tell you this, but with some interesting modifications you can get a copy of DVD in mpeg-2 content using a licensed DVD player in Windows. There are utilities that you can download for Windows that are specifically for taking advantage of some of the players to get a copy of the content. Are you telling me that with these things already out there that DeCSS is going to destroy the movie industry? Hell no! First off, people who buy the pirated versions probably weren't going to buy the damn thing in the frist place. You lose no money from people who were never going to buy (this is my argument for why estimates on damage from software piracy are bunk as well). I am so sick of this. Yes, you can get a copy of a DVD and use it to distribute illegally using deCSS. You can do the same things with stuff in Windows. With these tools already out, for much longer then deCSS was out may I add, deCSS adds nothing to the picture.
Molog
So Linus, what are we doing tonight?
It is illegal in the state of Michigan... (Score:2)
I do not know about elsewhere in the US, but in Michigan, it is a felony (4-15yr) to tell someone where they can obtain an illegal controlled-substance. (Personal experience)
The charge is "Aiding and abetting the distribution of a controlled substance." and I was charged with it after I told a 'friend' to call another mutual friend when he asked me if I knew where he could get a certain herb. Well, lo and behold I was charged with that felony, but the charge was later dropped because it was lame.
who needs permission? (Score:2)
I can give directions to a drug dealers house, and there is nothing illegal about it. If you go there and buy drugs you may face repurcussions, but I have done no wrong. This is a tactic that TV news crews have done for years, and I don't see them stopping anytime soon.
Mirror the mirror page. (Score:2)
kwsNI
Sue the phone company! (Score:2)
Let see, the phone company gives out addresses, the city gives out addresses. We should sue them all!
Re:But this isn't 'deep linking'.. (Score:2)
Did I miss something here? As far as I know, there has been no trial, only a preliminary injunction. Are you trying to say that a preliminary injunction against 2600.com somehow makes this software illegal?
Anyone can still legally post and use DeCSS under the assumption that they are using it for compatibility as guaranteed by the DMCA. Under any form of copyright law, it is and has always been illegal to use DeCSS to make copies of movies and redistribute them.
Let's face it, the reason why the MPAA went after 2600.com is because they are an easy target. They posted the code along with statements that this code could be used to pirate movies. Should doing this be illegal? Probably not, and hopefully this case will set a precedent on the matter. Is it illegal to sell a gun by advertising things like "Hey, you can kill people with this gun!"? I don't know. If I am considering killing someone and then I see a "gun control" PSA that says "Guns kill people", who goes to prison then?
<RANT>
What I do know is that killing people and/or robbing their homes is a hell of a lot more serious than decrypting some bits. If you steal someone's car, they no longer have a car. If you kill someone, they are dead. If you pirate a movie, the MPAA is out $20. Fuck the analogies, Mr. Valenti, and talk about the real world. You want to continue to be paid for providing a service that open source and broadband technology has rendered obsolete.
</RANT>
Driving Miss Valenti (Score:2)
C'mon, Jack, get it right: His behavior is analogous to driving someone to a home so that they can get to their own house!
Re:linking liabilities and Wired waffling (Score:2)
> First, anyone notice that the Wired article acts
> as though LinDVD is already available, as opposed
> to vapourware?
---
Actually, I'm miffed at more than that in this Wired story. Not
only did they mislead the reader into thinking that LinDVD is
available, but:
1. I believe they mis-characterize DeCSS when they say it is a
utility "that copies a DVD movie disc... to a computer hard disk."
Yes, the unencrypted movie can be saved to a hard disk, but DeCSS
isn't doing that. It is just doing the decrypting. (I've never
used it, but this is how I understand it to work. Am I right?)
Either way, Wired is certainly sucking up to the MPAA when they
only frame the functional definition of DeCSS as "copying" and
exclude "playing."
2. In describing LinDVD as "a legal player for Linux" they imply that
DeCSS is illegal. Right now, its legality is still up in the air.
The MPAA thinks it should be illegal, the rest of the world does
not. The judge will decide whether it is or not. Right now,
LinDVD is the only *authorized* player. DeCSS is simply not
authorized.
However, I did have to smile at the quotes from Jack Valenti,
president and CEO of the MPAA. Anybody with half a clue can see he
doesn't understand a blinking thing about today's technology or about
the implications of it. (Implications, of course, other than putting
money into his pocket.) Talk about a cow needing to be put out to
pasture...
Big difference (Score:3)
DeCSS is not a controlled substance, nor is it considered contraband of any sort. DeCSS was not outlawed by the court. An injunction was obtained against specific individuals and/or entities that prohibits them from distributing DeCSS. Aside from the use of the word "traffic" in the ruling, which I'm still not clear on the meaning of, it doesn't prevent them from telling people where they can go to download the software legally. The sites that are being linked to are not under the injunction and can legally distribute the software.
They don't even *sell* that many DVDs (Score:3)
Presume the same increase for 1999, giving 9 million * 6 = 54 million DVDs. What does a DVD cost these days? $20? A bit more? Figure printing, packaging, and media costs, and profit's probably $20 or less. So, 54 million DVDs * $20 each is roughly $1.1 billion.
Someone is seriously screwed up in the head if they expect anyone to believe that even though blank DVDs cost more than pre-recorded ones, somebody (a whole industry of somebodies, from the looks of it) has managed to turn a profit selling over twice as many DVDs as the entire motion picture industry, even with the help of country codes and other monopolistic advantages?
I would certainly like to see the chain of reasoning that supports the MPAA's claim, especially starting from the same figures I've got. Further, even if this were true, the MPAA has the gall to say that this piracy is due to DeCSS, and that everyone who apparently bought two pirated DVDs would have been willing to pay full price, so the MPAA in fact lost a sale, which also is a false assumption.
Frankly, I'd be surprised if they lost a tenth of what they claim, in all the years since DVDs have been for sale.
Deep Linking has nothing to do with it. (Score:3)
ie: Some ticketing website providing 'deep links' directly to Ticketmaster.com's ordering page for the appropriate tickets.
Ticketmaster said that this was illegal, as the other site is using their own content in an unapproved manner.
The judge said that as long as it is clear that the user is being sent to a different site, and the information is not presented is if it were it's own, it's fine.
Wow. Too many pronouns.. anyway...
As for the 'free speech' argument.
Remember, a judge can *ALSO* censor an original work if it is in question, whether it is source code or not. He can attest that the original authors of that work cannot legally publish the information contained in the work.
the system isn't free (Score:3)
Probably not, because the guns in gunstores generally aren't illegal. Telling someone where to get an illegal gun, if you know or should have known that your information would lead to an illegal gun sale probably is a criminal offence. In general, the act of aiding criminal activity is criminal.
To use an analogy from another rabid, politcal, over-the-top area of law enforcement, if Alice asks Bob where to buy cocaine and Bob tells her to go to Cathy and Cathy really is a coke dealer, then Alice has committed a crime (unless maybe if Bob was an investigative reporter or a cop and Alice was providing the information under the understanding that Bob wasn't actually looking to buy coke).
Damages, $2.5b? maybe they should hire us. (Score:3)
If we can pirate that much in so little time, we could certainly get out movie trailers and advertising as fast.
Why bother with TV Ads?
One must wonder how much in damages have been generated by their and Mattel's lawyers lying or manipulating the truth.
ARRGH. (Score:3)
Time for Slashdot to take a stand... (Score:4)
The following is a list of all the mirrors from the 2600 site.
Slashdot has long been one of the best true forums for free speech in the world. Link to this comment. Post that link on your website and everywhere. CmdrTaco archives these comments indefinitely, right? Lets see the MPAA take on Slashdot, Andover, and the ACLU (who I'm assuming would back you guys up) BTW: When I click the "Post Anonymously" button, is there any way to retrieve my IP address, or my login info? I sure as hell hope not. Big risk I'm taking here for the sake of free speech... but we gotta do what we gotta do. Right? /css [washington.edu] /smith/dvd [darkthrone.com] n crypt.html [lycos.com] /4/0/3/403_error [go.com] /dvd [kirenet.com] /index.htm [1st.net] /DeCSS.zip [telia.com] .com/wa2/phederalphelony/breakingnews.html [angelfire.com] /dvd.htm [angelfire.com] s _are_scu m-sucking_pigs [...] [crosswinds.net] /CollegePark/3807/2600Tribute.html [geocities.com] /Curb/1232/DeCSS [geocities.com] .com/SiliconValley/Ridge/3727/2600/dvd.htm [geocities.com] /SunsetStrip/Towers/1379/DeCSS.zip [geocities.com] .zip [geocities.com] ://www.oksanen.net/ville/this_is/under/Finnish/jur isdiction/otherstuff.htm [oksanen.net] /wrobell/css [posexperts.com.pl]
ftp://ftp.u.washington.edu/public/arobs
ftp://sun.rl.odessa.ua/pub/decss [odessa.ua]
http://130.111.75.63:142 [130.111.75.63]
http://216.35.100.9/ma/kdawson/deecessess [216.35.100.9]
http://24.114.168.235/public/css.htm [24.114.168.235]
http://24.15.107.67/DeCSS [24.15.107.67]
http://24.6.244.114/DeCSS [24.6.244.114]
http://2600.dk/mirrors/css [2600.dk]
http://334.se2600.org [se2600.org]
http://DVDoutrage.Tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://MSD.dyndns.org [dyndns.org]
http://Winmac.tripod.com/DECSS/decss.zip [tripod.com]
http://alcor.concordia.ca/~sd_fort [concordia.ca]
http://alsscan.webjump.com/DeCSS.zip [webjump.com]
http://alsscan.webjump.com/DeCSS.zip [webjump.com]
http://amergeisaphreak.netfirms.com [netfirms.com]
http://andrewstern.freeservers.com/decss [freeservers.com]
http://artun.ee/~rommi/css [artun.ee]
http://benyossef.com/freedom [benyossef.com]
http://bigpoppa.adsl.alpha1.net/decss [alpha1.net]
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/clcktwr [yahoo.com]
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/klflatt [yahoo.com]
http://budice.ancients.net/decss [ancients.net]
http://budsmoker.com/sites/decss [budsmoker.com]
http://bur-jud-118-039.rh.uchicago.edu/d vd [uchicago.edu]
http://cant-stop-us-all.freehosting.net [freehosting.net]
http://chaz.fsgs.com/misc/DvD [fsgs.com]
http://chemlab.org/~dvd [chemlab.org]
http://cherryville.org/dvd [cherryville.org]
http://come.to/intelex [come.to]
http://cs.unca.edu/~dillzc/decss [unca.edu]
http://css.choppy.com/data [choppy.com]
http://cssalgorithm.8m.com [8m.com]
http://cybertrippin.net [cybertrippin.net]
http://cymorg.bizland.com/index2.html [bizland.com]
http://dB.org/dvd [db.org]
http://dandruff.cs.unm.edu/~bap/DeCSS [unm.edu]
http://darklord.darkthrone.com/users
http://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~homeyd/DVD [uoregon.edu]
http://dbzauctions.tripod.com/decss.zip [tripod.com]
http://dcwi.com/~wench/decss [dcwi.com]
http://debian.mps.krakow.pl/mirror/css [krakow.pl]
http://decss.8m.com [8m.com]
http://decss.cx [decss.cx]
http://decss.cyvoid.net [cyvoid.net]
http://decss.fall0ut.com [fall0ut.com]
http://decss.freeservers.com [freeservers.com]
http://decss.freeshell.org [freeshell.org]
http://decss.fzylogic.net [fzylogic.net]
http://decss.htmlplanet.com [htmlplanet.com]
http://decss.netfirms.com [netfirms.com]
http://decss.z-man.org [z-man.org]
http://decss_files.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://decssmirror.homestead.com [homestead.com]
http://deelbeson.detour.net [detour.net]
http://dephile.hypermart.net [hypermart.net]
http://dephile.hypermart.net/dvdinfo.html [hypermart.net]
http://developer.dnepr.net/dvdcss [dnepr.net]
http://dialug.org/html/decss.html [dialug.org]
http://dirtass.beyatch.net [beyatch.net]
http://dlsf.org [dlsf.org]
http://dogh ousepages.lycos.com/collecting/midnightrider/DVDE
http://donotsueme.freeservers.com [freeservers.com]
http://donotsueme.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://dosdemon.yi.org/decss [yi.org]
http://dsl129.drizzle.com:2001/downloa ds/DVD [drizzle.com]
http://dvd.coolpeople.dhs.org [dhs.org]
http://dvd.k4dwi.net/dvd [k4dwi.net]
http://dvd.loathe.com [loathe.com]
http://dvdcopy.cjb.net [cjb.net]
http://dvdcrack.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://dvdcss.newmail.ru [newmail.ru]
http://earendel.gt.ed.net/dvd [ed.net]
http://ebmedia.net/dvd [ebmedia.net]
http://elknews.netpedia.net/dvd [netpedia.net]
http://fairuse.freeservers.com [freeservers.com]
http://freedecss.50megs.com [50megs.com]
http://freemymind.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://freeshell.org/~simm [freeshell.org]
http://friko6.onet.pl/war/mkochano [friko6.onet.pl]
http://ftp.yodanet.schwaebischhall. de/pub/DeCSS [schwaebischhall.de]
http://ftso.org/decss [ftso.org]
http://geocities.com/donquix0te [geocities.com]
http://geocities.com/dontquit222 [geocities.com]
http://go.to/decss [go.to]
http://go.to/nairos_dvd [go.to]
http://hammer.prohosting.com/~deepbleu [prohosting.com]
http://heavymusic.8m.com [8m.com]
http://heky.org/dc [heky.org]
http://home.att.net/ ~phreakonaleash/ccs_mirror--screw_the_feds [att.net]
http://home.clara.net/bangor/DeCSS [clara.net]
http://home.cyberarmy.com/drj/DeCSS [cyberarmy.com]
http://home.cyberarmy.com/enac/dvden crypt.html [cyberarmy.com]
http://home.earthlink.net/~kaos_inc [earthlink.net]
http://home.earthlink.net/~rocketrob [earthlink.net]
http://home.earthlink.net/~snagnbytz [earthlink.net]
http://home.monet.no/~christel/dvd.html [monet.no]
http://home.onestop.net/lakitu/mirror [onestop.net]
http://home.pacbell.net/pfconces [pacbell.net]
http://home.postnet.com/~wsl3/DeCSS [postnet.com]
http://home.primus.com.au/ratzmilk [primus.com.au]
http://home.rmci.net/bert/dvd [rmci.net]
http://home.rmci.net/bert/fuckthelawyers [rmci.net]
http://home.sol.no/~craphead/DVD [home.sol.no]
http://home.worldonline.dk/~loadfree/CSS [worldonline.dk]
http://homepage.dtn.ntl.com/paul.chan [ntl.com]
http://homepage.interacces s.com/~mycroft/decss/DeCSS.zip [interaccess.com]
http://homepages.go.com/homepages
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~cbunton [ihug.co.nz]
http://imezok.tripod.com/Untitled.txt [tripod.com]
http://imprint.uwaterloo.ca/dvd [uwaterloo.ca]
http://inferno.tusculum.edu/~neil/decss [tusculum.edu]
http://internettrash.com/users/linuxdvd [internettrash.com]
http://intfreedom.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://io.spaceports.com/~decss [spaceports.com]
http://isupport2600.8m.com [8m.com]
http://jackvalenti-ismyhoe.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://jadin.virtualave.net [virtualave.net]
http://jump.to/decss [jump.to]
http://jupiter.spaceports.com/~decss [spaceports.com]
http://kb5kjn.karco.org/~alpine/DVD [karco.org]
http://kesagatame.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://kevins.ne.mediaone.net/~kevins/dvd [mediaone.net]
http://killer.radom.net/~shoggoth/dvd.ht ml [radom.net]
http://leeroy.webjump.com/DeCSS.zip [webjump.com]
http://linux.uci.agh.edu.pl/~outlaw/ decss.html [agh.edu.pl]
http://logical-solutions.com.au/DeCSS.zip [logical-solutions.com.au]
http://loogham.2y.net/decss [2y.net]
http://magic.hurrah.com/~fireball/dvd [hurrah.com]
http://mail.sirak.org [sirak.org]
http://matt.frogspace.net/css [frogspace.net]
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/jwhite80 55/DeCSS [aol.com]
http://members.home.net/dgweb [home.net]
http://members.hometown. aol.com/_ht_a/MysticJTY/myhomepage [aol.com]
http://members.theglobe.com/Greed yMan/greedy.html [theglobe.com]
http://members.tripod.co.uk/SneakyBat [tripod.co.uk]
http://members.tripod.com/donotsueme [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/donquix0te [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/ny2600 [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/r-sobin/dvd [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/~Denney/DeCSS [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/~baloney97/dvd [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/~lucvdb/decs s.html [tripod.com]
http://members.tripod.com/~sk8or311 [tripod.com]
http://members.xoom.com/CaitSith16/DeC SS.htm [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/LinuxDVD [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/NiKeX [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/amateursoft [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/arjicle [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/chapter3/Mamma No.htm [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/freedvdinfo [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/get_decss [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/hairfro/DeCSS.zip [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/iamkeenan/master [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/iox [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/maud123/Home/C SS.htm [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/mogreen/decss [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/nyc2600 [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/phireproof [xoom.com]
http://members.xoom.com/s_o_sam/help.html [xoom.com]
http://members1.chello.nl/~o.seibert/DeC SS [chello.nl]
http://merlinjim.freeservers.com/dvd [freeservers.com]
http://mikedotd.penguinpowered.com/deccs [penguinpowered.com]
http://mikedotd.penguinpowered.com/decss [penguinpowered.com]
http://mikepark.org [mikepark.org]
http://mpaasucks.homepage.com [homepage.com]
http://natara.freeservers.com/decss/ decss.html [freeservers.com]
http://ndez.bizland.com/css-auth [bizland.com]
http://neil.gotlinux.org [gotlinux.org]
http://netmanor.iboost.com/zachgoss/s imm.html [iboost.com]
http://noc.res.cmu.edu [cmu.edu]
http://nomoredvd.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://ny2600.iwarp.com [iwarp.com]
http://nycsoftware.com/MirrorList.asp [nycsoftware.com]
http://osiris.978.org/~brianr/css [978.org]
http://pages.hotbot.com/arts/weknow [hotbot.com]
http://pages.hotbot.com/edu/silex/mir ror.html [hotbot.com]
http://pcmania.bg/9-99/mortyr/_vti_ cnf/_vti_pvt [pcmania.bg]
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/bojay/sl ashdot [mediaone.net]
http://people.mn.mediaone.net/si mulacrum/decss.htm [mediaone.net]
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/cy berwave/DeCSS.html [mediaone.net]
http://people.ne.mediaone.net/dantepsn [mediaone.net]
http://personalweb.smcvt.edu/wtaylo r/decss.html [smcvt.edu]
http://planeta.clix.pt/DJ_AmAzInG/DVD [planeta.clix.pt]
http://primate.net/DVD [primate.net]
http://pyrrhic.8m.com/DeCSS [8m.com]
http://quintessenz.at/q [quintessenz.at]
http://rha.housing.niu.edu/~davebb/css- auth [niu.edu]
http://rlk.ch.utoledo.edu/DVD [utoledo.edu]
http://sadennes.is.dreaming.org/hanadu [dreaming.org]
http://saturate.org/decss.asp [saturate.org]
http://saturn.spaceports.com/~brainz/DVD [spaceports.com]
http://screw_MPAA.tripod.com [tripod.com]
http://sektor1.dhs.org/decss.html [dhs.org]
http://sites.onlinemac.com/beback [onlinemac.com]
http://sites.uol.com.br/decss [uol.com.br]
http://smokering.org [smokering.org]
http://sophien.webjump.com/css-auth_tar. gz [webjump.com]
http://st-bart.net [st-bart.net]
http://strange.8k.com [8k.com]
http://stunman.iwarp.com [iwarp.com]
http://stuweb.ee.mtu.edu/~krcalh oo/DeCSS/DeCSS.htm [mtu.edu]
http://sweet.as/decss [sweet.as]
http://tatooine.fortunecity.com/moorco ck/337 [fortunecity.com]
http://telnet.stealth.kirenet.com/~star
http://the.wiretapped.net/wt/dvd [wiretapped.net]
http://theannux.homestead.com/decss.html [homestead.com]
http://thesanitarium.n3.net [n3.net]
http://ts1.online.fr/dvd [online.fr]
http://underground.pl/dvd [underground.pl]
http://users.1st.net/roundhere/decss [1st.net]
http://users.1st.net/roundhere/decss
http://users.bigpond.net.au/nf/dvd [bigpond.net.au]
http://users.pandora.be/glenn.plas/dvd [pandora.be]
http://vandenborre.org [vandenborre.org]
http://vedaa.tripod.com/decss.html [tripod.com]
http://w1.1634.telia.com/~u163400190
http://wakeupthe.net/dvd [wakeupthe.net]
http://warpedreality.members.easyspace.c om [easyspace.com]
http://website.lineone.net/~kellypink/D eCSS [lineone.net]
http://werewolf12.cjb.net [cjb.net]
http://wildsurge.a2000.nu/decss [a2000.nu]
http://wiw.org/~drz/css [wiw.org]
http://wusn-members.xoom.com/ambisagrus [xoom.com]
http://www.19f.org/dvd.html [19f.org]
http://www.2600.org.au/dvd.html [2600.org.au]
http://www.UnderTheStairs.com [underthestairs.com]
http://www.adulation.net/css [adulation.net]
http://www.agybby.com/dvd [agybby.com]
http://www.algonet.se/~skeleton/other.ht ml [algonet.se]
http://www.alltel.net/~ledwards/css.htm [alltel.net]
http://www.amerisuk.com/~carbon/css.html [amerisuk.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/biz5/revblack [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/drug me [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/acidlocke [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/hiphop/rawkus [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/in/sight [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/mb/DVDoutrage [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/DeCss [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/dvdiss [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/movies/mpaasucks [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/nh/panzah [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/nh/panzah/DeC SS.zip [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/ny3/ny2600 [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/or2/buzzkill [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/pe/sh3/deccs [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/pokemon/decss [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/punk/DeCSS/DeCSS [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/punk/freedom [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/dblagbro [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/sk2/braindamage [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/tx3/winger s/decss.html [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/vt/bigbrother [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire
http://www.angelfire.com/wy/leggosfun
http://www.angelfire.com/yt/mpaasucks [angelfire.com]
http://www.angelfire.com/zine/DeCSS [angelfire.com]
http://www.artnotart.com/anne/decss.html [artnotart.com]
http://www.asleep.net/dvd [asleep.net]
http://www.asylum.webprovider.com [webprovider.com]
http://www.auntfloyd.com/DeCSS [auntfloyd.com]
http://www.auracom.com/~rhomac/dvd [auracom.com]
http://www.azillionmonkeys.c om/qed/recess_for_css.html [azillionmonkeys.com]
http://www.best.com/~drumz/decss [best.com]
http://www.bugbbq.org/decss [bugbbq.org]
http://www.capital.net/~mazzic [capital.net]
http://www.charm.net/~dutch [charm.net]
http://www.chello.nl/~f.vanwaveren [chello.nl]
http://www.cognitronics-tech.com [cognitronics-tech.com]
http://www.conspiracynow.com/theories/d ecss [conspiracynow.com]
http://www.constant.demon.co.uk [demon.co.uk]
http://www.copkiller.org [copkiller.org]
http://www.corecomm.net/~davebb/css-auth [corecomm.net]
http://www.corova.com/dvd [corova.com]
http://www.cpinternet.com/~jhanson [cpinternet.com]
http://www.crosswinds.net/oakland/~ahrendt/Lawyer
http://www.crosswinds.net/~dvdcrack [crosswinds.net]
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/DeCSS [cmu.edu]
http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/~feise/DeCSS [tu-berlin.de]
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/dvd.htm [csd.net]
http://www.csl.mtu.edu/~pdl athro/filez/DeCSS/DeCSS.html [mtu.edu]
http://www.ct2600.org/2600-DVD.html [ct2600.org]
http://www.cybertrippin.net [cybertrippin.net]
http://www.cyperspace.org/~multicom [cyperspace.org]
http://www.darkkingz.com/DeCSS.zip [darkkingz.com]
http://www.december.ndo.co.uk [ndo.co.uk]
http://www.deforest.org/CSS [deforest.org]
http://www.deprecated.org [deprecated.org]
http://www.dgw3.com/dvd [dgw3.com]
http://www.discountwebhost.com/decss [discountwebhost.com]
http://www.divisionbyzero.com/decss [divisionbyzero.com]
http://www.dodgenet.com/~nickz/decss [dodgenet.com]
http://www.ductape.net/~alpha/decss [ductape.net]
http://www.duffbrew.com/decss [duffbrew.com]
http://www.execpc.com/~unicorn/dvdmirr or.htm [execpc.com]
http://www.firstlight.net/~clarka/decss [firstlight.net]
http://www.flypop.com [flypop.com]
http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscrap er/coax/1107 [fortunecity.com]
http://www.fortunecit y.com/skyscraper/motorola/1415/decss.htm [fortunecity.com]
http://www.fortunecity.com/vic torian/parkwood/95/DVD [fortunecity.com]
http://www.frankw.net/decss [frankw.net]
http://www.free-dvd.org.lu [free-dvd.org.lu]
http://www.freebox.com/zcedri [freebox.com]
http://www.freeyellow.com/members8/mpa aidiot [freeyellow.com]
http://www.fsp.com [fsp.com]
http://www.futureone.com/~damaged [futureone.com]
http://www.geekbits.com/decss [geekbits.com]
http://www.geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/Ongakka/rebel. html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Pipeline
http://www.geocities.com/Res earchTriangle/Station/2819 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Shapierian [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Silic onValley/Hardware/6188 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconV alley/Modem/4192 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities
http://www.geocities.com/Silic onValley/Software/3971 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Silic onValley/Software/8762 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/5258/de css.html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Exhi bit/5771/decss [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com
http://www.geocities.com/ SunsetStrip/Underground/3587/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/Ti mesSquare/Dome/4021/dvd.html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/cold_dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/corporatemin dcontrol [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dba3297 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/decss2 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/decss_2000 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/decss_forever [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/decss_mirror [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/djph3ad/decss [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/donquix0te [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/duck_ohm [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dvdcracked [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dvdfightback [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dvdrevolution [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dvdsuit/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/dvdthings [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/epoxy_css [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/fairusedecss [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/fr33dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/getyourdvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/ghaniali [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/iwantdvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/k4dwi/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/k4wi/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/ma dasian2000/decss_mirror.html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/mastaflame [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/mavic007/decss
http://www.geocities.com/meluchwj [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/mydefiance [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/necready433 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/necready433/dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/neurosis_dvd [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/opendvdecss [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities. com/siliconvalley/computer/2303/DVD.html [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/soho/studios/67 52 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/solidex [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/verruktesten [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/warrdragon_2000 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/watice2 [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/whackmol [geocities.com]
http://www.geocities.com/xtridzz [geocities.com]
http://www.gl.umbc.edu/~awirth1/decss [umbc.edu]
http://www.glue.umd.edu/~castongj [umd.edu]
http://www.hackunlimited.com/dvd [hackunlimited.com]
http://www.hakor.com/DVD [hakor.com]
http://www.hellnet.org.uk/decss.htm [hellnet.org.uk]
http://www.hobbiton.org/~tpm [hobbiton.org]
http://www.hote.qc.ca/dvd [hote.qc.ca]
http://www.hotsoupmedia.com/decss [hotsoupmedia.com]
http://www.idrive.com/decss/web [idrive.com]
http://www.iinet.net.au/~matlhdam/DeCSS [iinet.net.au]
http://www.illiterate.net/DeCSS.zip [illiterate.net]
http://www.image.dk/~mbp [image.dk]
http://www.imsoelite.com/dvd [imsoelite.com]
http://www.infa.abo.fi/~raine/pub/ software/DeCSS [infa.abo.fi]
http://www.ironbrick.com/decss [ironbrick.com]
http://www.ismokecrack.com [ismokecrack.com]
http://www.jabberwocky.eyep.net/decss.ht ml [eyep.net]
http://www.k4dwi.net/dvd [k4dwi.net]
http://www.kentroad.demon.co.uk/decss [demon.co.uk]
http://www.kiss.uni-lj.si/~k4ef1890/css [uni-lj.si]
http://www.kki.net.pl/~rsr66/css [kki.net.pl]
http://www.koek.net/dvd [koek.net]
http://www.krackdown.com/decss [krackdown.com]
http://www.lemuria.org/DeCSS [lemuria.org]
http://www.lifesolo.com/bin [lifesolo.com]
http://www.linuxnerd.net/decss [linuxnerd.net]
http://www.linuxstart.com/~kv ance/projects/decss.html [linuxstart.com]
http://www.linuxstart.com/~sys_admin [linuxstart.com]
http://www.lockpicking.nl/decss [lockpicking.nl]
http://www.mafkees.com/dvd [mafkees.com]
http://www.mayday2000.org.uk/decss.htm [mayday2000.org.uk]
http://www.members.tripod.com/dkdecss [tripod.com]
http://www.mindspring.com/~coueys [mindspring.com]
http://www.mindspring.com/~stonethrower [mindspring.com]
http://www.multimania.com/sxpert/decss [multimania.com]
http://www.mykle.com/DVD [mykle.com]
http://www.myshed.net/dvd [myshed.net]
http://www.nacs.net/~vodak/dvd [nacs.net]
http://www.netby.net/Oest/Hva lfiskegade/jana/css.html [netby.net]
http://www.netspace.net.au/~gromit [netspace.net.au]
http://www.networksplus.net/blogg [networksplus.net]
http://www.neurosis.org/dvd [neurosis.org]
http://www.nsnva.pvt.k12.va.us/~abc [k12.va.us]
http://www.ntsmedia.com/decss [ntsmedia.com]
http://www.nvhs.nl/decss [www.nvhs.nl]
http://www.nwu.edu/people/ldb/decss.html [nwu.edu]
http://www.oblivion.net/~amar/css [oblivion.net]
http
http://www.olen.net/deCSS [olen.net]
http://www.oz.net/~tvaughan [oz.net]
http://www.pages.drexel.edu/~jer24 [drexel.edu]
http://www.penismightier.com/weisha upt/dvd.html [penismightier.com]
http://www.pepper-land.net [pepper-land.net]
http://www.philter.com/DVD [philter.com]
http://www.pippy.itgo.com [itgo.com]
http://www.posexperts.com.pl/people
http://www.projectbullshit.com/decss.html [projectbullshit.com]
http://www.projectgamma.com/deccs [projectgamma.com]
http://www.qix.net/~pheonix/decss.html [qix.net]
http://www.ratol.fi/~asiipola [ratol.fi]
http://www.reapers.org [reapers.org]
http://www.redgnatt.homestead.com [homestead.com]
http://www.redrival.com/chimx/computer s.html [redrival.com]
http://www.robotslave.net [robotslave.net]
http://www.rpi.edu/~jettea/dvd.html [rpi.edu]
http://www.rz.uni-frankfurt.de/~marsie [uni-frankfurt.de]
http://www.scwc.net/DeCSS [scwc.net]
http://www.sealteamsix.com/phagan [sealteamsix.com]
http://www.sent.freeserve.co.uk/css -auth.tar.gz [freeserve.co.uk]
http://www.sk3tch.com/freedecss [sk3tch.com]
http://www.smackfu.com/decss [smackfu.com]
http://www.spin.ch/~rca/decss [www.spin.ch]
http://www.stanford.edu/~drumz/decss [stanford.edu]
http://www.stupendous.org [stupendous.org]
http://www.subcor.com [subcor.com]
http://www.subnetsystems.com/decss/dec ss.zip [subnetsystems.com]
http://www.swcp.com/~ampere [swcp.com]
http://www.tar.hu/decss [www.tar.hu]
http://www.teamnismo.com/2600 [teamnismo.com]
http://www.underwhelm.org/decss [underwhelm.org]
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/ree ds/decss.zip [bigpond.net.au]
http://www.users.on.net/johnm/DeCSS [on.net]
http://www.uwm.edu/~zachkarp [uwm.edu]
http://www.vent-soft.com/dvd [vent-soft.com]
http://www.vexed.net/CSS [vexed.net]
http://www.visi.com/~adept/liberty [visi.com]
http://www.vulgar.net/dvd [vulgar.net]
http://www.warren-wilson.edu/~echerry/dvd [warren-wilson.edu]
http://www.webnx.com/tuna [webnx.com]
http://www.webzsite.com/decss [webzsite.com]
http://www.wizardworkshop.com [wizardworkshop.com]
http://www.wolfpaw.net/~decss [wolfpaw.net]
http://www.worldcity.nl/~frank/dvd [worldcity.nl]
http://www.wwcn.org/~grit/free [wwcn.org]
http://www.xs4all.nl/~oracle/dvd [xs4all.nl]
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rasch/dvd [xs4all.nl]
http://www.zeal.net/~pyro/DeCSS [zeal.net]
http://www.zip.com.au/~zzz/dvd [zip.com.au]
http://www.zone.ee/DeCSS [www.zone.ee]
http://www3.50megs.com/dvd4free [50megs.com]
Free Speech Allows This (Score:4)
2600, by putting up a pointer to the DeCSS source, is aiding law enforcement by letting them know where this supposedly illegal product can be found. Therefore, it is not illegal, it is a public service in aid of law enforcement.
That would be the death of internet as we know it. (Score:4)
If the judge allows this to happen, he cannot have much knowledge about the internet. And, it would be a catastrophy. I don't know exactly what can be done, except for a huge demonstration on the day the ruling is. And then I mean HUGE. This needs to get media attention.
--
"Rune Kristian Viken" - arcade@kvine-nospam.sdal.com - arcade@efnet
That is essentially what 2600 says it will do (Score:4)
linking liabilities and Wired waffling (Score:4)
First, anyone notice that the Wired article acts as though LinDVD is already available, as opposed to vapourware? You and I know differently, but this adds to the innacurate "Linux DVD players already exist, so those DeCSS defenders must be pirates" line that the MPAA PR department's been doing a good job of pushing lately.
Secondly, I really hope the court gets a clue and doesn't grant the injunction. It has to be made clear by the defense that making a site responsible for linked-to content would make:
- All search engines illegal
- All compiled indices (eg. Yahoo) illegal
- Any bulletin-board-esque site which allows posters to post links (eg. Slashdot) very vulnerable to spurious lawsuits
- Hell, any site that links to any other site (ie. virtually any site on the web) very vulnerable to spurious lawsuits
You might be able to argue that (1) and (3) don't count because the site authors don't exercise any editorial control over the links, but (2) and (4) are pretty analagous to what 2600 is doing.[TMB]
I'd be interested to know... (Score:4)
---
If 2600 loses this one . . . (Score:4)
If this is found improper as well, then they could post a list of sites that provide lists of sites that provide lists of sites that distribute the source code. And so on.
As soon as 2600 was ordered to stop linking to lists of lists, then that would mean that any site linking to 2600 now (for example, Yahoo! or Slashdot) would also be in violation of the law.
This should be a walk-over... (Score:5)
If that's the best they can do, feed 'em to the hamsters.
Precidents are ALWAYS very important, in a case like this. Far more so than actual logic, so by bringing up as many precidents on as many legal points as possible, you should be able to walk it.
Precidents that could be used:
Between these legal decisions, I am -certain- that 2600's legal team could absolutely fry the MPAA's challange, and set a precident wrt the DeCSS code which could shatter the existing lawsuits.
But this isn't 'deep linking'.. (Score:5)
*sigh*
Ok, let's go over this again, redundant as it may be. (*duck*)
It is legal for any one individual or corporation to link to anything on the internet, whether it is immediately accessible from the originator's website or not, including frames, etc. The judge mentioned that it should be mentioned, however, that the linked-to content was not originating on the website from which the link comes. This means I can embed a frame into my homepage that shows, for instance, a movie clip that's on Apple's website. The place that is being linked to can not protest against this in any legal manner. (But there're technical ways around it)
However, in this case, 2600.com is linking to sites that have software which was deemed illegal, yes, ILLEGAL by a court, under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. 2600.com has been stopped, by court order, from posting the software on their site, and are circumventing it by linking to it. Whether we like it or not (and I hate it), this is just a sneaky way around a court order (i.e. providing access to material banned by said court), and the judge probably won't like it at all. This has nothing to do with deep linking - said linking referred to a person's right to link to something (perfectly legal) even if the people on whose site it is don't want that to happen.
Unfortunately, people have been sued over linking to illegal material (MP3s mostly) before - Slashdot posted a story of the Swedish Kid who was arrested and sued over linking to MP3s on his site (an arrest initiated by the RIAA, and no, it's not the deCSS guy
Seriously, guys - this is the real test, the one we've been waiting for. Is it illegal to LINK to material that is deemed 'unworthy' under our laws? To use a gun metaphor (which will probably start a flame war)
I guess this'll finally show how free the system really is.
Alex T-B
Next injunction to shut down all of Internet (Score:5)
It's actually just part of MPAA's master plan of getting all the current users of the Internet to start going to the movies again.
Examination of "facts" (Score:5)
- "He is transporting individuals electronically to locations in order to facilitate the illegal copying of DVDs. His behavior is analogous to driving someone to a home so that they may burglarize the home."
Not true. This is more closely analogous to telling someone the address of a home to which they then burglarize. URLs are very much like road-side billboards. Pointing someone to a web site containing materials they could use to break the law is no more illegal than selling someone a gun -- unless it can be proven that you are aware of their intent to break the law. It is far easier to suggest (and later prove) the links are a form of protest. AND, 2600 isn't wisking you away to someone else's web site -- you have to click the link.- According to the MPAA, the pirating of DVDs poses a "serious threat" and costs the organization $2.5 billion per year.
I really want to see the supporting logic and finacial analysis in support of such claims. DeCSS is nothing. How much does a DVD-R drive cost? a DVD-R blank? How long does it take to burn a 3.9G DVD-R? Even given the increasing consumer internet access speeds to which a surprisingly few people have access, moving a 4GB movie around is difficult. And there's no economical means to store the digital copy. (Ok, a 4GB DDS-2 [4mm] tape is under 10$) One would assume the professional crook would be a much more serious threat -- they don't care what you put on the disk; they make a near-molecular copy.When digital VCRs become a common thing, then there will be a problem. HDTV will force this issue. (It'd also be nice to be able to direct record from a DSS system. DishPlayer is a nice start.)
- McNelis said without this additional injunction the first one would be "worthless."
I'd have to say first injuction was also worthless, but go right ahead and file away. 2600 has obeyed the first injuction -- they are not hosting, distributing, or publishing the DeCSS source code. They are, however, hosting a page where people can add links to their own content (one pressumes it to be DeCSS, but 2600 hasn't indicated any verification of any kind; I could, for example, add a link to CmdrTaco's resume *grin*) Again, 2600 is only breaking the law if they are distributing DeCSS (this would be in violation of the prior restraining order.) They would be an accessory to a crime if they they had foreknowledge of one's illegal use of DeCSS downloaded by following the link(s) on 2600. But then, so would the site from which the DeCSS program was actually downloaded.- "We are hopeful that consistent with the court's earlier ruling, the activities of the defendant constitute trafficking and the illegal act and the court will stop him from doing it," said Litvack.
That certainly is a liberal definition of "trafficking"... Last time I checked, we still had the right to peaceful protest.It's illegal to manufacture cocaine. It's illegal to sell cocaine. It's illegal to posses cocaine. But it's perfectly legal for me to tell you where you can go (and/or who to see) to buy some cocaine. The police may harass you, but you cannot be arested and jailed for merely knowing where to obtain cocaine.
Exactly how far has this gone? (Score:5)
This is insane! This is analogous to me getting thrown in jail for telling someone where my neighbor keeps his crowbar, because they might go borrow it and use it to commit a crime!
The MPAA has lost it's mind. Is it just a case of too many lawyers trying to manufacturer a need for their services, or are the media execs really that power and money hungry?
Power is suggestive. (Score:5)
So, for example when Sigmund Freud came out with his theories on sexuality, the power started promoting these theories. It promoted, boosted, intensified, magnified and tried to keep our attention to the subject so constant, that we started to believe in these theories.
Such theories are suggestive and they are prescription to actions and views. so for example constant discourse about sexuality on Oprah is the same promotion as constant advertisements of potatoe chips. When people are constantly reminded of food, they become hungry. When people are constantly reminded of sex, they become horny.
In case of DeCSS, power constantly reminds us about this case. In fact by not keeping quite, RIAA promoted, intensified, and constantly reminded us about the case. I believe that they hurt themselves by doing this and should they have kept quite, much fewer people would have concentrated their attention on the subject. By displacing attention, the subject would have stayed (as it was intended) for a much fewer spectators.
NICE GOING, RIAA
May be those people never read Freud and Foucault.