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Apple Cease-And-Desists Stupidity Leak

Posted by jamie on Thu Nov 29, 2001 12:38 PM
from the CheckForOSX dept.
Remember Apple's "free, plus $19.95 shipping" updater CD for Mac OS X 10.1? Turns out it's actually a full version of the operating system (which helps explain why it's so large) but it adds an extra little package called "CheckForOSX." Remove that and you can install 10.1 on any disk -- or at least, that's the secondhand version I got of what used to be at MacFixIt's Nov. 20 report, which yesterday was taken down after a note from Apple's lawyers. Here's the cease-and-desist story. We've included Apple's letter, below.

Apple cites the Lanham Act (see below) and I have no idea what that covers. But Bill Innanen pointed out on a mailing list that the operating system might be said to violate its own access control rights under the DMCA:

...since the possession of the tools to violate a copyright has been criminalized, we have yet another case of circular legal "logic." The only tool necessary to violate this particular copyright is the very operating system that the copyrighted software (the updater/full-installer) installs (or an earlier version of same).

(Just pop open the installer package with the built-in "context sensitive menu" module, find the CheckForOSX module and drag it to the trash can. Voila!)

Is the possession of MacOS X v10.1 or its installer illegal because it can be used to violate its own copyright?

(Well, actually by the letter of the law in 1201(2) I think you'd have to argue that Mac OS X 10.0 was "primarily" designed to circumvent the access controls in the 10.1 update... but it's still pretty funny.)

Bill goes on to point out: "The problem that this converted updater fixed is that there are reported problems with 10.1.1, and with a 10.0.x and the updater you can't backtrack. With the 10.1 full installer you can."

Apple's lawyers write:

We represent Apple Computer, Inc. ("Apple") with respect to its intellectual property matters. Recently, it has come to our attention that you are providing unauthorized instructions concerning the modification of the Mac OS X 10.1 update software (the "Software") on your website. Specifically, it appears that you are providing instructions for converting Mac OS X 10.1 update Software to a full install version of Mac OS X from your web site in violation of the Copyright Act and in violation of your software license agreement with Apple.

You should be aware that Apple has never authorized you modify the Software. Moreover, by providing instructions on how to modify and circumvent restrictions within the Software, you are infringing Apple's copyrights in violation of the Copyright Act and engaging in acts of unfair competition in violation of the Lanham Act. Additionally, Apple's license agreement, which you accepted upon purchasing a copy of the Software, specifically prohibits you from copying, decompiling, reverse engineering, disassembling, modifying or creating derivative works of the Software.

Consequently, on behalf of our client, we demand that you cease and desist from publishing or distributing the above-referenced materials. We believe that this is a very serious matter, thus we ask that we receive confirmation in writing from you that you have removed the infringing material from your web site.

Thank you for your prompt cooperation on this matter.

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  • by jpellino (202698) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:40PM (#2631697)
    to stuff the genie back into the bottle?
  • Well, duh. (Score:4, Insightful)

    by boinger (4618) <.gro.uoy-kcuf. .ta. .regniob.> on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:42PM (#2631708) Homepage
    What they should have done is a package-by-package analysis of the install and tell what each part does. Leave it to the discussion board and newsgroups to establish what taking out a piece does.
    • Re:Well, duh. by nutznboltz (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @09:05PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Well.. by mindstrm (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:43PM
    • Re:Well.. by czardonic (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:47PM
      • Re:Well.. by Bobo the Space Chimp (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:56PM
        • Re:Well.. by Lemmy Caution (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:54PM
        • Re:Well.. by Robert Hutchinson (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:19PM
        • Welcome to the new milenium. by hotsauce (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:04PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Well.. by TedCheshireAcad (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:57PM
    • Re:Well.. by the_2nd_coming (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:50PM
      • Re:Well.. by TedCheshireAcad (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:51PM
        • Re:Well.. by the_2nd_coming (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:57PM
    • Re:Well.. by Mr_Matt (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:01PM
      • Re:Well.. by malfunct (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:38PM
        • Re:Well.. by Samuel Hughes (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:50PM
          • Re:Well.. by stux (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:59PM
            • Re:Well.. by rat7307 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @09:47PM
          • Re:Well.. by kooch (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:30PM
            • Re:Well.. by Dyolf Knip (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:43PM
        • Re:Well.. by Mr_Matt (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:37PM
        • Re:Well.. by Jaysyn (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:10PM
          • Re:Well.. by Gordonjcp (Score:2) Friday November 30 2001, @12:43PM
        • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Well.. by mindstrm (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:03PM
        • Re:Well.. by GemFire (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:16PM
          • Re:Well.. by Reckless Visionary (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:38PM
            • Re:Well.. by GemFire (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:04PM
              • Re:Well.. by Reckless Visionary (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:36PM
            • Re:Well.. by 42forty-two42 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:44PM
        • Re:Well.. by Mr_Matt (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:30PM
        • Re:Well.. by chris_mahan (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:35PM
          • Re:Well.. by Methuseus (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:34PM
        • Re:Well.. by 42forty-two42 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:40PM
        • Re:Well.. by quinto2000 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:03PM
          • Enforceable? by yerricde (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:36PM
            • Re:Enforceable? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:51PM
        • Please pull your head out of your ass. by mindstrm (Score:2) Friday November 30 2001, @10:54PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
      • Re:Well.. by 42forty-two42 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:38PM
    • Re:Well.. by j7953 (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:05PM
      • Re:Well.. by TedCheshireAcad (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:48PM
        • Re:Well.. by chris_mahan (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:58PM
          • Re:Well.. by TedCheshireAcad (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:18PM
            • Re:Well.. by chris_mahan (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:28PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • News flash... by InfinityWpi (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:43PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Once again, Apple has too... by toupsie (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:43PM
  • Dear Website Owner (Score:3, Funny)

    by the_rev_matt (239420) <slashbot@th[ ]ymous.com ['eon' in gap]> on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:44PM (#2631717) Homepage
    We are dumb. You have pointed this out, and we'd like you to stop doing so.

    This, of course, from the same company that used to let you drag the whole OS to the trash bin and delete it...

  • Clearly free speach must prevail by a1englishman (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:44PM
  • Eh? by julesh (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:44PM
    • Read: DMCA by mindstrm (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:51PM
    • Re:Eh? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Mr. Sketch (111112) <mister DOT sketch AT gmail DOT com> on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:57PM (#2631853)
      First of all, I don't suspect most people would consider removing a package from an operating system 'modifying the software' or any of the other list of things stated.

      I would agree. Because if I don't like, say, the calculator program and I delete that after installing 'the Software' and install a calculator program that I like better, is that 'modifying the software'? By their logic it sounds like it is. When is 'the Software' no longer 'the Software'? After I install it, am I then permitted to modify it? Would I be in violation of my license agreement if I delete calc.exe after installing 'the Software'?

      This sounds like a load of hot air to me.

      I couldn't have said it better.
      [ Parent ]
      • Re:Eh? by Mr Teddy Bear (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @04:13AM
      • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • This is great (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jayhawk88 (160512) <rockchalk88@yahoo.com> on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:45PM (#2631732) Homepage
    Large companies covering up for stupid mistakes with threats of litigation truly is the comedy of the new century.
  • by chancycat (104884) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:46PM (#2631743) Journal
    Take the following:

    Consequently, on behalf of our client, we demand that you cease and desist from publishing or distributing the above-referenced materials. We believe that this is a very serious matter, thus we ask that we receive confirmation in writing from you that you have removed the infringing material from your web site.


    Seemes like Apple is at least not trying to crush them. I give them points for being nice lawyers.
    Same time, they really goofed, so they can afford to drive any more (bad) publicity on this matter.

  • The Lanham Act (Score:5, Interesting)

    by aidoneus (74503) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:48PM (#2631768) Homepage Journal
    The Lanham Act [bitlaw.com] is actually a trademark / service mark protection law, not really a copyright law. To see Apple's lawyers use it in this context seems a bit out of the ordinary, although Apple is notorious for vigorously defending their trademark and look-and-feel related concepts (remember the OS X themes debate a few months back?). Still, if they're relying on the Lanham Act to do their bullying, they might be on shakey footing. Stick to the (deservedly despised) DMCA for things like that.
    • Re:The Lanham Act by czardonic (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:55PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:The Lanham Act by anasophist (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:13PM
    • Re:The Lanham Act (Score:4, Informative)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:24PM (#2632043)
      Prof. Dave Touretzky [cmu.edu] at Carnegie Mellon (you may remember him for the gallery of CSS descramblers he keeps on his page) has an interesting practical reply [cmu.edu] to being threatened with bogus Lanham Act claims (scroll about halfway down for the relevant comments). I'm not sure if the reasoning applies here, but it's worth a read.
      [ Parent ]
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:The Lanham Act by davidhan (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:32PM
    • Re:The Lanham Act by sallen (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:24PM
  • Hurry! Quick! by Rev.LoveJoy (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:49PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • I'd like to thank apple... by GreenKiwi (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:49PM
  • They were too busy.. by Count (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:50PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by atom6 (447637) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:50PM (#2631783)
    The Lanham Act essentially includes all the federal laws governing trademark registration and usage (but not state laws). Apple appears to be seeking protection under Title VIII of the Act, which has to do with misappropriation or misrepresentation of trademarks for use in commerce.

    I'm just a college student who's taken a few law classes, but it seems to me this is a fairly weak claim, and Apple could make a much stronger one under other areas of federal law. Can anyone with more legal knowledge comment on the strength of Apple's claim?

    Here's a link [bitlaw.com] to the complete text of the Act.

  • Will Slashdot get a letter as well? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by snoozerdss (303165) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:51PM (#2631790)
    Since slashdot posted this story does that mean that they too will receive a letter from apple?
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Apple is still a company by DougLandry (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:51PM
  • by Wordsmith (183749) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:52PM (#2631801) Homepage
    You know, when you want to circumvent the existing install checker on the average PC upgrade edition of a product, you usually have to murk around with the registry or apply cracks with non-standard install methods ... things that would confuse the average joe newby pirate. But on the MacOS, you can crack your software with just a single drag of the mouse! Now that's what I call UI innovation.
  • Apple isn't in the wrong here... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by eXtro (258933) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:52PM (#2631802) Homepage Journal
    though I don't think that maxfixit.com is in the wrong either. Providing instructions on how to turn the MacOS 10.1 upgrade into a full installer is no different than providing instructions in how to convert the Macromedia Flash demo into a full working version, or providing a CD crack for Quake. All of the examples exist. You can download the Flash demo and make it a fully functioning copy. You can download a file that disables copy protection.


    Depending on how you use any of these instructions and/or pieces of software it may be illegal. It also might be legal, or at least grey. Suppose I've got a legitimate copy of MacOS 10. I've also legitimately purchased the 10.1 installer. My hard drive fails and I want to run 10.1 again. I can install MacOS 10, then install MacOS 10.1 - or - I can defeat the protection on MacOS 10.1 and install it in a single step. In this case the end result is the same, I've legally installed a copy of MacOS 10.1.


    If I don't legally have MacOS X and use this trick to get a copy of MacOS 10.1 for 20 bucks then I'm at least doing something immoral, and possibly illegal. Apple has the right to try to prevent this (beyond that, they've got an obligation to as well, an obligation to their stock holders).


    That said, it will also be ineffective. The crack will appear on some dyndns.org warez site and on gnutella etc. I had suspected that upgrade CD was a full install but didn't have a chance to verify it. I upgraded my sisters G4 over thanksgiving weekend. The CD seemed pretty full for an upgrade, and you could actually boot from it.

    • Re:Apple isn't in the wrong here... by dzurn (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:10PM
    • Re:Apple isn't in the wrong here... by GreyyGuy (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:25PM
    • Re:Apple isn't in the wrong here... by VRisaMetaphor (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:48PM
    • Re:Apple isn't in the wrong here... by ShieldWolf (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:03PM
    • Yes they are. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Chris Burke (6130) on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:07PM (#2632364) Homepage
      Apple is in most certainly in the wrong here, in as much as it is wrong to be stupid, lazy, and legally defensive of the first two failings.

      Look, ignore for a second that the label on the CD reads "10.0 -> 10.1 upgrade" or somesuch. The fact is that you legally purchased a CD that contains the entire 10.1 operating system. It is the fully functional operating system, and the only requirement for having 10.0 is an artificial one that is easily removed. Does Apple wanting it to just be an upgrade CD change the fact that it is the entire OS + 1 package? Not at all.

      It's like overclocking. You might buy a processor that is labeled as 1GHz, but it can run at 1.2 if cooled properly. Does the fact that the vendor would rather you buy the actual 1.2GHz part make a difference? They sold you a device with a capability, and you are using it.

      Or it'd be like if Stephen King was doing his online book thing, but his "preview" was actually the entire book, with a note to please not read past page 47.

      Or it'd be like a video card upgrade that came in the form of a completely new computer, but you were expected to only take out the video card and leave everything else in your closet.

      If Apple really wanted the upgrade CD to be just an upgrade CD, it should have contained only the data necessary to make the change, like every other software upgrade I've ever seen in my entire life. That they didn't do this is a sign of laziness on their part, not moral obligation on mine.

      They sold me a CD containing data, and I'm using it. I'm not copying anything they didn't sell me; I'm not giving it to someone who didn't pay; I'm not modifying their code and redistributing it. If it is, well, that wouldn't surprise me, but that doesn't mean Apple isn't wrong.

      What _would_ be wrong was if I (probably as a reseller) bought a bunch of the upgrade CD's, and resold them as the full thing (at full price). You'll note that in the case of CPU overclocking, the chip makers have made that distinction, and while they make overclocking harder for everyone, they only really care about the dishonest resellers.

      I think the only protective action that Apple could take that would put them in the right would be if they stated they would not give technical support to those who used the upgrade CD to do the full install.
      [ Parent ]
      • No, they're not by 3am (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:27PM
        • Re:No, they're not by dvdeug (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:41PM
          • Re:No, they're not by killmenow (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:08PM
            • Re:No, they're not by Chris Burke (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:40PM
              • actually by _avs_007 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:50PM
              • Re:No, they're not by killmenow (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:51PM
              • Re:No, they're not by sg3000 (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @08:52PM
              • Re:No, they're not by Chris Burke (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:57PM
              • Re:No, they're not (Score:4, Insightful)

                by WNight (23683) on Thursday November 29 2001, @06:18PM (#2633778) Homepage
                Useless laws like the DMCA aside, if you buy software you are legally entitled to do anything with it that you could do with a book.

                If CheckForOSX annoys you, remove it. Just the same as you might scribble in the margins of a book, or rip out a page that offends you.

                If the seller intends otherwise, then they need to make it a clear part of the pre-sale agreement. EULAs and any software which try to enforce them are void at best, and illegal at worst. (Preventing someone from doing something they are entitled to do until they give you something of value (your compliance) is extortion, the same as if I demanded $50 before I'd let you use your computer which I had snuck in and passworded the night before.)

                The only reason this hasn't been pursued is that nobody with enough money has been annoyed by EULAs.

                Not everything which harms a company is illegal (though the way they whine, it soon will be) nor is it necessarily immoral. Imagine if you stood outside a major electronics store handing out a competitors fliers, with a lower price that the first store had promised to match. Of course, they always hope nobody tracks these deals down, but they have no right to sue you for you activities, they made the deal and should have made sure they could honor it.
                [ Parent ]
              • Re:No, they're not by 3.1415926535 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @09:46PM
              • Re:No, they're not by WNight (Score:2) Friday November 30 2001, @01:51PM
            • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
          • Re:No, they're not by Shimmer (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:04PM
          • Re:No, they're not by 3.1415926535 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @09:51PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:No, they're not by shaper (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:46PM
        • Re:No, they're not by sacrilicious (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:46PM
        • Re:No, they're not by imadork (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:49PM
        • Re:No, they're not (Score:5, Interesting)

          by DunbarTheInept (764) on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:49PM (#2632682) Homepage
          It is morally wrong to keep it. It is stealing, no matter how clever your arguments are to the contrary.
          Whether it is wrong to steal is is irrelevant since that's not what the complaint is about. Apple isn't going after people doing the stealing. They're going after the people *publicizing* how easy it is to steal it. It's like pointing out that someone left their front door unlocked, and getting sued for pointing it out when someone ELSE uses that information to burgle the house.

          It is a disturbing trend that businesses are more concerned with the act of POINTING OUT how crappy their security is than they are with the actual act of exploiting that bad security. They don't give a damn about the theft - they just don't like the bad press, and will gag you for trying to point out a truth about them that they find embarassing.

          The DMCA - the law that makes it illegal to tell the truth.

          [ Parent ]
        • Re:No, they're not (Score:5, Insightful)

          by Chris Burke (6130) on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:56PM (#2632723) Homepage
          The correct analogy is if the cashier at a store gives you a $20 instead of the single that you were supposed to get in your change. Or buying a car from someone and finding an expensive watch between the seats.


          For that analogy to be even close to correct it would have to be the case that Apple -accidentally- put the entire functional Mac OSX 10.1 on the CD. Since I doubt this is the case -- that the only difference is the CheckForOSX package attests to this -- your analogy is "correct" only for definitions of the word opposite the accepted usage.

          Your analogy might be in the same hemisphere as reality if they willfully put the watch in the car, but asked you to kindly just leave it where it is between the seats. Or better, they're selling you the watch, but the box it comes in happens to be a Mercedes.

          If it seems like only a complete idiot would do that, then you understand my point -- there is nothing illegal going on, just Apple being very, very dumb.

          It is very, very simple. Apple sells you an upgrade CD. They - through incompetence or ignorance - included the whole OSX 10.1 install. You inadvertently receive something you didn't pay for. Keeping it (or similarly, installing it without paying for a copy) is stealing.

          Well, you're right about the simple part, at least. They sold me a CD containing the entire 10.1 operating system, I paid for that CD, and now I'm copying that data to my system. MY system, the one who paid for it. There is nothing on that CD that Apple didn't knowingly give me, and to call it stealing to use that which was knowingly sold to you for the purpose for which it was intended is insane.

          I mean, the idea of illegal copying of software being stealing is dubious in and of itself (since copying software leaves the original intact), but here not only is there no loss, I'm not even gaining a single bit of information that I didn't pay for!
          [ Parent ]
        • No, they're not not by CausticPuppy (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:57PM
        • Re:No, they're not by TGK (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:58PM
        • Re:No, they're not by EatAtJoes (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:00PM
          • bzzt.... by _avs_007 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:06PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:No, they're not by greymond (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:16PM
          • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
        • Re:No, they're not by siegesama (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:19PM
        • Re: No, they're not and stuff. by Renraku (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:31PM
        • Free Watch!!! by Anarchofascist (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:34PM
        • Re:No, they're not by poot_rootbeer (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:37PM
        • Re:No, they're not by Christopher Craig (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:39PM
        • Re:No, they're not by Wolfgang Boxhead (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:36PM
        • Oh, yes, they are by Kludge (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:39PM
        • It cannot be called "stealing" by Loundry (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:55PM
        • Re:No, they're not by zbuffered (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:59PM
        • Stealing? by xmda (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:10PM
        • Re:No, they're not by Xerithane (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:44PM
        • Re:No, they're not by Velex (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:00PM
        • Re:No, they're not by dnewlander (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:29PM
        • Re:No, they're not by tgibbs (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:51PM
        • Re:No, they're not by themassiah (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @09:58PM
        • Re:No, they're not by AbsoluteRelativity (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @11:00PM
        • Bullsh*t. Read 17 USC 117(a) by yerricde (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:17PM
        • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
      • Holes in your argument. by hotsauce (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:52PM
      • Re:Yes they are. by c_jonescc (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:22PM
      • Re:Yes they are. by schwanerhill (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:06PM
      • Re:Yes they are. by IronChef (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:26PM
      • Re:Yes they are. by Asetilean (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:59PM
      • Re:Yes they are. by Some Dumbass... (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @10:13PM
      • Re:Yes they are. by PimpNinjaWannaBee (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @01:09PM
      • BS by _avs_007 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:19PM
        • Re:BS by Chris Burke (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:18PM
      • Re: Are you paid? by Chris Burke (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:11PM
      • Re:The unending stupidity...AKA license vs. owners by WNight (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:48PM
      • 5 replies beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Apple isn't in the wrong here... by jaliathus (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:18PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • It's the money by christurkel (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:52PM
  • by j7953 (457666) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:52PM (#2631805)

    In their letter, they only talk about reverse engineering and modifying the software and such. Ok, so that's illegal. But no one modified any software here, you just say "hey, don't install this package."

    I also don't see how this could violate Apple's license agreement. I'm sure that MacFixIt does have an OS X license, so it's not like they installed the software without a license -- they just chose to install it in a different way. A way that Apple made possible by making the package optional.

  • amazing (Score:3, Funny)

    by shibut (208631) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:52PM (#2631806)

    it's amazing to me how may times developers think their users are luddites and will not figure out how to circumvent shortcuts (as in the case of this CD). It's not just the domain of software either, Pentium 90s could be speeded up to 100 with 2 minutes of work by anyone that isn't afraid of a screwdriver.

    I guess shortcuts are just too appealing.
    • Re:amazing by mberman (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:07PM
    • Re:amazing by abe ferlman (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:30PM
    • Re:amazing by jthill (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @08:19PM
  • The Lanham Act (Score:4, Informative)

    by Ghoser777 (113623) <fahrenba@@@mac...com> on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:52PM (#2631807) Homepage
    Here's a link to it: Lanham Act [bitlaw.com].

    Here's a little description I found online:
    The Lanham Act defines the statutory and common law boundaries to trademarks and service marks. Trademarks (and service marks) are words or designs used in the advertising of goods and services. Rights to use a trademark are defined by the class(es) for which the trademark is used. Therefore, it is possible for different parties to use the same trademark in different classes. The Lanham Act defines the scope of a trademark, the process by which a federal registration can be obtained from the Patent and Trademark Office for a trademark, and penalties for trademark infringement. The Legal Information Institute provides Title 15 of the US Code, which encompasses the Lanham Act.

    It sounds like this act has to deal with advertising... so is Apple saying that MacFixIt should take down their post because it advertises away to get a full version of commercial product that costs $129 for $19?

    I don't think this should be that big of a deal - they'll probably just stop making the update CD, and most people who bought one already owned a copy of OS X anyway.

    F-bacher
  • Absurd by Exmet Paff Daxx (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:52PM
    • Re:Absurd by quartz (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:59PM
      • Re:Absurd (Score:4, Funny)

        by Sodium Attack (194559) on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:08PM (#2632373)
        So you're saying that if I play my DVDs in Linux and read my eBooks on my PDA, I'm "stealing from companies"? And you have a +1 bonus? *sigh* Slashdot is falling apart...

        So you believe no one should have a +1 bonus unless they are in lockstep with the doubleplusgood Slashdot groupthink? *sigh* Slashdot is falling apart...

        [ Parent ]
        • Re:Absurd by thelexx (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:31PM
      • Re:Absurd by dbrower (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:34PM
        • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Hehe (Score:5, Funny)

    by ecki (115356) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:52PM (#2631809)
    Looks like Apple needs a lesson in software temper resistance. I know that it's hard to do (part of my current job) and security by obscurity sucks, but at least don't name the crucial file "CheckForOSX" ... better use something bland like "OFUpdate", or if you're in the mood, "MicrosoftEngineersAreWeenies" ;)
  • Wha?!?! by schon (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:54PM
    • Re:Wha?!?! by schon (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:12PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • I wonder by Gregoyle (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:55PM
    • Re:I wonder by Cy Guy (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:19PM
  • I used to do it with M$ (Score:5, Informative)

    by ruebarb (114845) <`moc.liamtoh' `ta' `ehcaroloc'> on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:57PM (#2631848)
    Back in the ol' Win 95 days, the Win95 upgrade could be used as long as you had a "WINDOWS" directory and a file named "win386.ini"

    so you took edit.com, and created a blank file called win386.ini - presto..the upgrade became the full kitten kaboddle

    Upgrade disks will by necessity require the entire OS - all that is required is to figure out how to circument it, and it's end of story...this is barely even news if it wasn't for the fact they sic'd lawyers to prevent a webpage from passing out info every hacker will figure out in about 2 hours
  • Apple within its rights - and balls for them by Durindana (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:57PM
  • by 3am (314579) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:57PM (#2631854) Homepage
    here is a description from cornell law:

    "In the United States trademarks may be protected by both Federal statute under the Lanham Act, 15 U.S.C. 1051 - 1127, and states' statutory and/or common laws. Congress enacted the Lanham Act under its Constitutional grant of authority to regulate interstate and foreign commerce. See U.S. Constitution, Article 1, Section 8, Clause 3. A trademark registered under the Lanham Act has nationwide protection. See 1115 of the Act.

    Under the Lanham Act, a seller applies to register a trademark with the Patent and Trademark Office. The mark can already be in use or be one that will be used in the future. See 1051 of the act. The Office's regulations pertaining to trademarks are found in Parts 1 - 7 of Title 37 of the Code of Federal Regulations. If the trademark is initially, approved by an examiner, it is published in the Official Gazette of the Trademark Office to notify other parties of the pending approval so that it may be opposed. See 1062 - 1063 of the Act. An appeals process is available for rejected applications. See 1070 - 1071 of the Act."
    - from http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/trademark.html [cornell.edu]

    you can browse the sections of United States Code Title 15 at http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/15/ [cornell.edu]. As it mentions above, the Lanham Act is comprised of 1051 - 1127.

    courtesy of google
  • Amendment I by Milican (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:58PM
    • Re:Amendment I by dillon_rinker (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:12PM
      • Re:Amendment I by ptrourke (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:01PM
      • Re:Amendment I by DanielRavenNest (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @12:48AM
        • Re:Amendment I by dillon_rinker (Score:2) Friday November 30 2001, @03:25PM
      • Re:Amendment I by dillon_rinker (Score:2) Friday November 30 2001, @03:36PM
      • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
    • Re:Amendment I by Mononoke (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:13PM
      • Re:Amendment I by Milican (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:30PM
    • Re:Amendment I by Melantha_Bacchae (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:54PM
    • Re:Amendment I by Milican (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:43PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • by cygnus (17101) on Thursday November 29 2001, @12:59PM (#2631875) Homepage
    didn't Steve Jobs just say something like, "Any security scheme that's based on secrets will be broken sooner or later." about the iPod's lax copy management scheme?

    so did Apple do this on purpose, or are they just being hypocrical? seems like the latter.
  • Am I violating the DMCA? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Wakko Warner (324) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:00PM (#2631879) Homepage Journal
    By posting a link that tells you how to do it [google.com]?

    - A.P.
    • Am I violating the DMCA even more? (Score:5, Informative)

      by Wakko Warner (324) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:05PM (#2631926) Homepage Journal
      By posting the entire text of said article?

      Convert your Update CD to a full Install CD

      In the meantime, we found a work-around that may be even better than the one we were looking for. Instead of finding a file on the hard drive that we could modify to fool the Installer, we found a file on the Installer that we could delete and thereby bypass the checking process altogether!

      We found the file by comparing a Mac OS X 10.1 "full" Install CD with an Update CD. Both CDs had the aforementioned VolumeCheck file. However, only the Update CD had the CheckforOSX file. Could this be the only critical difference between the two CDs? What if we made a bootable copy of the OS X Update CD, but with the CheckforOSX file missing? Would it act as a full install CD? We tried it. It worked! In brief, here is what
      to do:

      1. Using instructions posted on this page, create a disk image of the Update CD.
      2.Delete the CheckforOSX file from the Essentials.pkg file in System/Installation/Packages folder of the image file. [You need to use the Open Package Contents contextual menu item to access this file.]
      3.Burn the image to a CD using Disk Copy.

      You can now boot from this CD. When you do, it will list any volume - even one that has no version of Mac OS X at all - as eligible for an install of Mac OS X 10.1. We did not test to see if this actually correctly installed the OS, but we have no reason to believe it would not. This method thus apparently converts an Update CD into a full install CD! A neat trick (although we suspect Apple may not find this so wonderful).
      [ Parent ]
      • by fobbman (131816) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:38PM (#2632150) Homepage
        Not good enough. You need to use the POWER OF ROT-13!!!

        Pbaireg lbhe Hcqngr PQ gb n shyy Vafgnyy PQ

        Va gur zrnagvzr, jr sbhaq n jbex-nebhaq gung znl or rira orggre guna gur bar jr jrer ybbxvat sbe. Vafgrnq bs svaqvat n svyr ba gur uneq qevir gung jr pbhyq zbqvsl gb sbby gur Vafgnyyre, jr sbhaq n svyr ba gur Vafgnyyre gung jr pbhyq qryrgr naq gurerol olcnff gur purpxvat cebprff nygbtrgure!

        Jr sbhaq gur svyr ol pbzcnevat n Znp BF K 10.1 "shyy" Vafgnyy PQ jvgu na Hcqngr PQ. Obgu PQf unq gur nsberzragvbarq IbyhzrPurpx svyr. Ubjrire, bayl gur Hcqngr PQ unq gur PurpxsbeBFK svyr. Pbhyq guvf or gur bayl pevgvpny qvssrerapr orgjrra gur gjb PQf? Jung vs jr znqr n obbgnoyr pbcl bs gur BF K Hcqngr PQ, ohg jvgu gur PurpxsbeBFK svyr zvffvat? Jbhyq vg npg nf n shyy vafgnyy PQ? Jr gevrq vg. Vg jbexrq! Va oevrs, urer vf jung gb qb:

        1. Hfvat vafgehpgvbaf cbfgrq ba guvf cntr, perngr n qvfx vzntr bs gur Hcqngr PQ.

        2.Qryrgr gur PurpxsbeBFK svyr sebz gur Rffragvnyf.cxt svyr va Flfgrz/Vafgnyyngvba/Cnpxntrf sbyqre bs gur vzntr svyr. [Lbh arrq gb hfr gur Bcra Cnpxntr Pbagragf pbagrkghny zrah vgrz gb npprff guvf svyr.]

        3.Ohea gur vzntr gb n PQ hfvat Qvfx Pbcl.

        Lbh pna abj obbg sebz guvf PQ. Jura lbh qb, vg jvyy yvfg nal ibyhzr - rira bar gung unf ab irefvba bs Znp BF K ng nyy - nf ryvtvoyr sbe na vafgnyy bs Znp BF K 10.1. Jr qvq abg grfg gb frr vs guvf npghnyyl pbeerpgyl vafgnyyrq gur BF, ohg jr unir ab ernfba gb oryvrir vg jbhyq abg. Guvf zrgubq guhf nccneragyl pbairegf na Hcqngr PQ vagb n shyy vafgnyy PQ! N arng gevpx (nygubhtu jr fhfcrpg Nccyr znl abg svaq guvf fb jbaqreshy).

        [ Parent ]
      • Re:Am I violating the DMCA even more? by Fnkmaster (Score:3) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:45PM
      • Re:Am I violating the DMCA even more? by SilentChris (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:20PM
      • Re:Am I violating the DMCA even more? by aphexbrett (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:30PM
      • Re:Am I violating the DMCA even more? by kirkb (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:33PM
    • Very Clear Instructions! by BoarderPhreak (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:10PM
      • Re:Very Clear Instructions! by reflector (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @11:00PM
        • Fixed! by BoarderPhreak (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @11:09PM
          • Re:Fixed! by reflector (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @11:25PM
    • Re:Am I violating the DMCA? - me TOO!!! by marcop (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:18PM
  • Free Speech anyone? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by uslinux.net (152591) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:01PM (#2631884) Homepage
    Like many, I have to vigorously disagree with Apple on this one. If they did NOT want it to be installable, they should have done a good job preventing it (or not releasing enough to allow it to be a full install - duh!). After all, providing ONLY the updated packages instead of the ENTIRE OS seems like it would have been smarter.

    Does this make it illegal for me to walk into the Apple store at the mall and tell people they can do this? If there was code being disseminated which would break the protection (DeCSS for instance), then *maybe* I could see it as a violation of the DMCA (Note: I *disagree* with the DMCA, but from a judge's point of view, I could still see it as a violation). But, simply stating how to do it seems like it should be protected as free speech.

    How come printed newspapers get more lienency than electronic sites? If the NYT or Washington Post print Top Secret classified information which could KILL people, it's protected under the First Amendment. But, if someone even thinks of explaining how to circumvent a piece of software, it's not protected? Perhaps if it was printed in the newspaper?
  • all bark, but it still bites (Score:4, Interesting)

    by frankie (91710) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:02PM (#2631901) Homepage Journal
    Remember that anyone can write a Cease and Desist letter. Remember that lawyers are not required to be honest in such letters.

    Their job is to convince the "offending" person that it would be a bad idea to piss off their employer. The C&D is basically a more business-like version of sending a 200 pound hired goon [jumpstation.ca] to your door.
  • EULA? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by TheTomcat (53158) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:03PM (#2631905) Homepage

    Apple's license agreement, which you accepted upon purchasing a copy of the Software, specifically prohibits you from copying, decompiling, reverse engineering, disassembling, modifying or creating derivative works of the Software.
    *headscratch*
    Semantics aside (who's to say that by not installing something, you're "reverse engineering"?), since when do you agree to software EULA at purchase time?

    I haven't installed OSX10.1, but any other EULA I agree to presents itself before I open the CD enveloppe, or when I run the installer.

    Does Apple really make you agree to the EULA at PURCHASE TIME?
    • Re:EULA? should offer not protection here by RichMan (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:32PM
    • Re:EULA? (Score:4, Interesting)

      by imadork (226897) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:48PM (#2632225) Homepage
      Does Apple really make you agree to the EULA at PURCHASE TIME?

      So that's why when I got my "free" upgrade at CompUSA, they went through great pains to charge me exactly $.01 for it! (They said I didn't have to give them the penny, but I did anyway).

      Apple usually includes a boilerplate license on a sheet of paper (in several languages) in the box with all their software, and a big red dot on the CD pouch that says "By opening this, you agree to the license". I would imagine that's the earliest point at which you agree.

      And the license they included really was a boilerplate, including the part where you can only install it on one computer!?!?!! What did they want me to do, get two "free" copies from CompUSA so I could upgrade my "Smurfy" B&W G3 as well as my iBook? If I installed it on more than one computer, am I liable for triple damages?

      [ Parent ]
      • Re:EULA? by sacrilicious (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:49PM
      • Re:EULA? by llamalicious (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:31PM
      • Re:EULA? by TheReverend (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:40PM
      • Re:EULA? by Ian Peon (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @12:41AM
    • Re:EULA? by Dephex Twin (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:46PM
    • 2 replies beneath your current threshold.
  • How is Trash modifying software? by WillSeattle (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:03PM
  • Thanks, Apple by Syberghost (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:04PM
  • Apple isn't used to UNIX hacking culture yet by Baconator (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:04PM
  • Now I'm confused? by twakar (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:05PM
  • Nothing New "Magic" by Irvu (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:06PM
  • Realtively Simple Solution by HerrNewton (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:06PM
  • Instructions found on Web by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:12PM
  • Freedom by Flufmunkey (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:13PM
  • So could I post them? (Score:5, Funny)

    by DavonZ (13344) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:17PM (#2632011) Homepage
    Specifically, it appears that you are providing instructions for converting Mac OS X 10.1 update Software to a full install version of Mac OS X from your web site in violation of the Copyright Act and in violation of your software license agreement with Apple.

    So, I do not own a copy of Mac OS X. So therefor I would not be violating any license agreement.

    You should be aware that Apple has never authorized you modify the Software.

    I did not see the web site state that they modified any software. Deleting a file is something that Apple gave them rights to do when they placed a trashcan on their desktop.

    Additionally, Apple's license agreement, which you accepted upon purchasing a copy of the Software, specifically prohibits you from copying, decompiling, reverse engineering, disassembling, modifying or creating derivative works of the Software.

    Again, not something the site told anyone to do. Deleting a file is not copying, decompiling, reverse engineering, disassembling, modifying or creating derivative works of the Software.

    Oh man. It is shaky ground. I can fully understand the web site removing the instructions, but their response was pretty weak. If they needed leagal help, they should have asked Slashdot. They have many lawyers that could have assisted in a response.

    LD
  • No big deal, move along, nothing to see here. by valmont (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:20PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • So What? by Delifisek (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:24PM
  • The copyright angle by Mike Hicks (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:25PM
  • Corporate Responsibility? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Greyfox (87712) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:26PM (#2632054) Homepage
    Although personal responsibility has not been in vogue in recent years, it is still typically the response of the courts that you are responsible for your actions. A lot of the laws that have come down recently seem to be designed to absolve corporations from similar responsibility.

    Here we have Apple, whose job it is to provide hardware, software and updates for both. Now what you're telling me is that if Apple doesn't know how to do its job correctly, they think it should be illegal for anyone to point that fact out. And it's not just Apple, if anyone things I'm just picking on them. Choose any company that's filed a non-patent related IP lawsuit in the past few years and in nearly every case, the suit originated because someone pointed out that they weren't doing their job very well (and provided details.)

  • I don't call it stupidity.. by dasmegabyte (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:26PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Fat binary - ppc and i386 by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:29PM
  • office 97 upgrade (Score:4, Funny)

    by dildofire (308572) on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:30PM (#2632082)
    anyone remember the ms office 97 upgrade cd that you allowed you to point it back to the cd itself when it asked for the location of your office install? i love it when companies spend years designing the software and let an intern write the install procedures.
  • This is just as silly as by A_Non_Moose (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:31PM
  • security philosophy vs litigation philosophy by Lepruhkawn (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:34PM
  • CheckForOSX problems by sjofi (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:41PM
  • Terms and conditions by GiMP (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:47PM
  • To: Apple; Re:Fishism by Stavr0 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:47PM
  • Moving a file wrong? by keefebert (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:51PM
  • by maggard (5579) <michael@michaelmaggard.com> on Thursday November 29 2001, @01:53PM (#2632265) Homepage Journal
    Honestly I'm glad that Apple didn't put elaborate protections all over their update. As we've seen time & time again these heavy-handed mechanisms just get in the way of the legitimate users, invariably bollix up some percentage of systems and don't deter determined pirates.

    So was Apple stupid? No. Customer-service oriented? Yes. Ease-of-use oriented? Yes. Transparency-of-upgrade-process? Yes. Safe-and-reliable-installer prioritized? Yes.

    Heck, I'd think the /. crowd would be thrilled there isn't some elaborate product activation scheme or big encrypted block of material. Yeah, it's easy to defeat and steal the product. On the other hand if one's determined it's trivial enough to copy a buddies CD or download the original.

    Hey - Apple ENCOURAGED folks to pass along their update! They didn't do what so many other vendors do and require proof of purchase. They didn't charge some outrageous rate. They didn't even go the MS route and call it a new OS. They even stated they'd have made it free for download if it wasn't so honking big.

    All Apple did was ask (ok, in a heavy-handed legal fashion but that's how the legal system works) a website to take down directions for circumventing their security mechanism. I've no doubt numerous other companies send out reams of the same boilerplate every day asking folks to stop posting how to crack their demos or post their passwords.

    And here we have folks bustin' on 'em.

    So - what SHOULD they have done? Would folks REALLY prefer encrypted material doing who-knows-what after some onerous registration process and limited distribution? Crow all you want that Apple "gave away" their product, they went about their technology in a far more responsible way then many others. Think about that the next time you install an MS/Sun/Irix/IBM/HP/Compaq/Unisys/etc. OS.

  • License Agreement by pixelcort (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:03PM
  • This is the same as... by malarkey (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:07PM
  • Why are we crusading, again ? by swdunlop (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:09PM
  • Think about Time To Market (Score:5, Insightful)

    by valmont (3573) on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:09PM (#2632377) Homepage Journal
    You gotta give Apple developers some credit for crying out loud. If they packaged the upgrade the way they did, running the risk of someone mucking with their packages, it clearly had to be because it was easier *and* faster to do it that way.

    Mac OS X 10.1 is a pure Jewel of an Operating System, and I for one like to see frequent major upgrades that acutally render my work more productive. And this one sure did.

    Chances are I am not the only one thinking that.

    So Apple saved time and figured their money would be better spent on lawyers sending out semi-generic cease-and-desist letters, rather than delaying the release of their upgrade by a few more months and miss the X-Mas rush.

    Are they dumb? NO. It's about money. Time-to-Market translates directly into money. I'm sure they knew the risks they were taking and carefuly measured them.

    Does the fact that they released a full working version of an operating system on a demo-disk harm the user in any way? NO. But that's what is unconsciously implied: "oh Apple made a quick upgrade hack that can easily be worked around, quick hacks are dumb, quick hacks are bad, so *I* as a geek, must absolutely go out there and make a big fucking fuss out of it so I can look cool and get some publicity out of it". Again, this is not microsoft quickly hacking their "Passport architecture", loading it with obvious security holes to make a deadline, thereby harming the greater computer user community, we're talking about a legitimate software upgrade that happens to give you more, MUCH more than what you bought.

    Exploiting this for any other purpose than recovering from a failed upgrade is *wrong* and, indeed illegal. Beside, keep in mind that even if leveraging this weakness to shorten the installation process to recover from a broken upgrade may be *very* convenient *and* tempting, doing it the regular way, which was installing OS X 10.0.x and *then* using the OS X 10.1 upgrade as just that, an upgrade, still works. While this appears to be a cool, convenient hack to share with close friends and family to save them time, I do believe this information to be a little too sensitive to be permantently published on a web site for everyone to leverage. Again, this is *not* like a security hole, this is publishing information which deliberately violates the Software License Agreement.

    MacFixIt most likely understands that.

    Are they trashing freedom-of-speech? FUCK NO. Stay real guys and look at this whole thing for what it really is: a very simple, dumb hack which violates a very clear, simple, software license agreement. Software Vendors have those agreements so they can actually make money off of the shit they make. Duh.

    MacFixIt handled the situation very maturely but anyone here invoking "freedom of speech" rights for this particular case is merely making a devious use of one of our most cherished inallienable rights, and such behaviour can easily become one day its most threatening enemy.
  • Wrong law by M_Talon (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:09PM
  • This simply doesn't make sense... by ellem (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:11PM
  • Revenge Time by ankur_ag (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:14PM
  • Why do they care? by Sloppy (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:16PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Remember the Quake Shareware CD's? by GuntherAEPi (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:16PM
  • EULA restrictions? by Lew Pitcher (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:19PM
  • Why don't software developers use their heads? by SilentChris (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:23PM
  • Similar situation by mjwise (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:27PM
  • And a good thing it is by MadFarmAnimalz (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:32PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • this sounds familiar... by taco1991 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @02:40PM
  • who'da'thunk'it. (Score:3, Funny)

    by ctimes2 (38940) on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:40PM (#2632621) Homepage
    I never would have known about this if the Lawyers hadn't tried to play hardball. Damn you meddling kids!

    Ctimes2
  • At the end of the day... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:41PM (#2632624)
    Apple took a shortcut to get an update out faster, and is now paying for it. Next time, the updater probably won't include the full OS, and will be more of a hassle, so customers lose out.

    I really couldn't care less whether the original posting was illegal or not, and what Apple's legal standing is regarding the C&D.

    The original posting told people how to get OS X for free, without ever buying the software. Either you support that type of piracy (I don't) or you shouldn't be painting Apple out to be the villian here. They are a wronged party, responding perhaps incorrectly. But make no mistake that the original error was on the part of those people who posted the story in the first place.

    I'm usually a big free-speech advocate, but every once in a while I get too tired of people trying to justify what is just plain wrong.
  • Remeber you don't own software. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by ^Phantom (100743) on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:44PM (#2632642) Homepage
    I am surprised this fact has not been pointed out. Remeber software is licensed not bought. For all it matters apple didn't even need to install a checker at all.

    The license states you need to own a copy of OS 10.0 to use the CD, that is the illegal part. For all it matters what the CD contains they could make one CD that has 9, 10.0, and 10.1 on one disk, if you only paid for the use of 9 then that is all you can legally install.

    I can legally buy a gun, I can legally walk in a store, but if I use that gun to rob that store it is illegal, the tool dosen't matter, that you use it for the legal/approved outcome does.
  • New ad for Apple (Score:5, Funny)

    by ajs (35943) <ajs@aj[ ]om ['s.c' in gap]> on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:56PM (#2632722) Homepage
    Think Lawyers.
  • by BoarderPhreak (234086) on Thursday November 29 2001, @02:57PM (#2632732)
    Everything Mac has clear instructions on how to do this! [everythingmac.org]

    Check it out - very easy to follow.

    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • Further proof... by talks_to_birds (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:02PM
  • Overheard in the installer programmer's cubicle... by tapin (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:17PM
  • Modify the software? by lumpenprole (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:19PM
    • 1 reply beneath your current threshold.
  • bad methods, good intentions by CowbertPrime (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:22PM
  • After "One-click order", the "One-click crack" by pinkpineapple (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:24PM
  • How dare they by dh003i (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:27PM
  • Article Already On Gnutella! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @03:33PM
  • Information wants to be FREE!!!! by ciryon (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:30PM
  • apple goes open source by vikool (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:36PM
  • Surprised at the reaction of some... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Maktoo (16901) on Thursday November 29 2001, @04:38PM (#2633218) Homepage
    This really surprises me.

    I'm surprised by the fact that people think Apple is wrong in this.

    When you buy a $100 cubic-zirconium ring, and then take it home only to find out it's a real diamond... do you take it back? Yes. If you don't you're stealing.

    Apple is selling an *upgrade* to an Operating System. People pay $20 for this upgrade. If those people turn around and modify it so that it's a Full Install... then they are getting a $100 product.

    Is Apple getting the $80 they deserve from the people modifying their CDs? No. Therefore... those people are morally obligated to not do that.

    Whether it's legal or not... I don't care, I assume it's not. However, it's morally wrong... so on those grounds, Apple certainly has a case.
  • If most of us weren't using Linux.... by Rude Turnip (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @04:56PM
  • it can't be anything but a full disk by sean23007 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:12PM
  • Truth = jail by jeff13 (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:19PM
  • Business Ethics by dbrower (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @05:46PM
  • What FS does the CD use? by Rude Turnip (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:16PM
  • Unfair competition? by rakslice (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @06:32PM
  • severe failure to understand DMCA by autopr0n (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @07:20PM
  • Silly by Ogerman (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @07:53PM
    • Re:Silly by metachimp (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @03:23AM
  • another clever Apple commercial by 8onal (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @09:55PM
  • The upgrade REQUIRED a receipt from 10.0 by decapentaplegic (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @12:01AM
  • What's going on here? by TheInternet (Score:2) Friday November 30 2001, @02:51AM
  • sue Apple? by devious (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @02:55AM
  • So much for thinking different by RockyJSquirel (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @03:55AM
  • I thought UNIX was s'posed to be open. by Penguinoflight (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @08:34AM
  • You own what? by CheckForOSX (Score:1) Friday November 30 2001, @01:19PM
  • Re:MacFixIt's Pathetic Reply by MrFredBloggs (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:54PM
  • Re:Apple can suck it. by the_2nd_coming (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @12:54PM
  • Re:MacFixIt's Pathetic Reply by Atilla (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:01PM
  • Re:MacFixIt's Pathetic Reply by Score Whore (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:01PM
  • Re:MacFixIt's Pathetic Reply by turbine216 (Score:2) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:02PM
  • Re:do not bash apple by diesel_jackass (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @01:50PM
  • Re:To all the Apple users who hang out here... by benad (Score:1) Thursday November 29 2001, @07:39PM
  • 27 replies beneath your current threshold.
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